[O]n the insistence of top security specialists at the FBI, she is... moving, changing her name, and essentially wiping away her identity... in effect, being put into a witness-protection program—except, as she notes, without the government picking up the tab. It's all because of the appalling fatwa issued against her this summer, following her infamous "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day" cartoon.Terrible. My heart goes out to you, Molly, even though I was always opposed to the "everybody draw Mohammed" approach to protesting the threats against the cartoonists who had drawn Muhammad. I believe strongly in free speech rights, but I think people should, in deciding how to exercise their rights, think about the effect their speech has on others who don't deserve to be offended. I imagine (and hope) that Molly is drawing her adventures and telling her story in what will be a widely read comic book. She has a charming drawing style and a nice sense of humor — plus the panache of unjust persecution and danger. Good luck!
ADDED: There's a big Metafilter thread about it, which I'm reading after writing that. A surprising number of people are blaming Norris for bringing the death threats on herself.
Posts
236 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 236 of 236Gmay said...
Death threats are not constitutionally protected.
Fatwas are part and parcel of Islam. Islam is a "religion," therefore constitutionally protected.
I'm not saying that I agree, but until Islam is reclassified (outlawed), non-Muslims are fully subject to Mohammad's sword.
In other words, it's easier to tell one or a hundred people to go into hiding - than it is to designate Islam a rabid, murderous cult.
"Anglelyne said...
andrew: In America ridiculing religion and ridiculing murder aren't equal and they shouldn't be.
Dear God, andrew. No, no, no. In America, "ridiculing religion" and murder are not the same thing. "Ridiculing religion" and "ridiculing murder" are equal as protected speech, regardless of one's personal sensitivities....."
Agreed. But Muslims cry double standard because Holocaust denial causes more outrage than Prophet Mo ridicule. My point is on a MORAL (not legal) level most Americans think that ridiculing murder is more distastful. More Americans would be offended at ridiculing Native American genocide then Moses, and I don't think that means the Native America lobby is soooo strong.
I'm curious why Muslims always refer to any slight against Islam as being like Holocaust ridicule/denial yet never compare anti-Jewish hate speech that appears in their media to be as offensive as ridiculing/denying genocide against Muslims?
Almost Ali said: "Islam is a "religion," therefore constitutionally protected."
And yet death threats still aren't protected.
Look, I can do this all day.
Unless of course you're saying that Islamic law trumps our Constitution, in which case I think I can safely ignore you from this point on without missing any intelligent remarks.
I think people should, in deciding how to exercise their rights, think about the effect their speech has on others who don't deserve to be offended.
Taking offense is a choice. Person A's speech does not cause Person B's offense. If Person B doesn't like what he hears, he can choose to be offended or choose to ignore the speech. Interestingly, choosing to be offended cedes power to the speaker--the power to provoke a reaction. A cynical observer might note that it's pretty easy to get adherents of the Religion of Peace® to make violent fools of themselves in the streets over petty words or actions.
GMay said...
Unless of course you're saying that Islamic law trumps our Constitution
In theory, no. In practice, yes.
To my knowledge, no legal, domestic entity has challenged Islam's right to issue, and carry out, fatwas.
In fact, no legal entity would get to first base, simply because they would lack "standing." This is a very convenient aspect of the law, since to prove direct harm - the aggrieved party would by necessity (fatwa) be absent from such a proceeding (i.e., already dead).
This also explains why we sliced and diced Islam into competing groups; "moderates" vs. extremists. As if we were invited to re-edit the Koran.
And so, the name Molly Norris is being passed from mosque to mosque, and will continue its rounds until she is dead. Not by "Islam," no-no, but by a crazy person who just happened to be a Muslim.
Even the FBI understands how this works in practice, thus their advice to get out of town - way, way out of town.
"I believe strongly in free speech rights, but I think people should, in deciding how to exercise their rights, think about the effect their speech has on others who don't deserve to be offended."
Oh, Ann. First you voted for Obama, and now this.
There is no right, constitutional or otherwise, to not be offended. I am offended daily by one thing or another. And yet somehow I persevere and manage to survive.
You are talking about polite society where nobody present is a threat, and in that milieu it's fine to try to avoid giving offense. This cartoonist was not addressing those people. If they are offended, too bad, so sorry, turn the page and live with it like I do when I accidentally view the garbage that Ted Rall or Doonesbury spews.
This woman did exactly the right thing, and the best thing that could happen would be if LOTS of cartoonists and others with platforms started mocking these Islamic conservatives who want to kill people.
If only our legal system would at least TRY to make things more difficult for them to publicly issue death orders and so forth.
Almost Ali
> Fatwas are serious business. They're also legal, given our laws protecting freedom of religion.
I hope you are joking. So if my religion demands human sacrifice of unwilling victims, I am allowed to murder? No.
I don’t care if their religion justifies death threats. They are still criminal. You don’t get to break whatever law you want just because your God commands you to.
You can believe whatever you want. But what you can do can and should be limited by the criminal code.
And that is actually based on black letter S.C. law. The S.C., for instance, has said that native americans who believe in using peyote are not allowed to.
A.W. said...
The S.C., for instance, has said that native americans who believe in using peyote are not allowed to.
But they haven't said a word about fatwas. And they won't, particularly since they can't herd millions of fanatical Muslims onto a reservation.
Easier to tell Molly Norris to run for her life - than to pass through the eye of a needle.
You may think our non-Muslim president would at least issue a statement on Norris' behalf - after all, she's entitled to the protection of her government. You might even believe that the Supreme Court take up the issue of fatwas, but they won't, not until said fatwas are nailed flaming to their door.
Finally, a fatwa is a blanket obligation that must be honored by ALL Muslims. Therefore, to outlaw fatwa(s) is to outlaw Muslims. Which isn't going to happen any time soon.
So, Ms. Norris is left to run from millions of potential killers.
a fatwa is a blanket obligation that must be honored by ALL Muslims.
Not according to wikipedia. A fatwa is an opinion from a scholar on a doctrinal point, binding only upon the person who issues it.
A link on the wikipedia page tells the fascinating story of how Procter and Gamble got a fatwa issued declaring trademark infringement was haram.
Ali
> But they haven't said a word about fatwas.
They don’t have to, you idiot. Employment Division v. Smith answers the whole thing. To quote from it “Respondents urge us to hold, quite simply, that when otherwise prohibitable conduct is accompanied by religious convictions, not only the convictions but the conduct itself must be free from governmental regulation. We have never held that, and decline to do so now.”
A death threat is conduct. you are not allowed to make death threats even if your God commands you to. END OF STORY.
> since they can't herd millions of fanatical Muslims onto a reservation.
The reservation system has nothing to do with it. The fact that the state had a generally applicable law banning a number of drugs, including peyote was the only issue. The reservation system, if anything, makes it easier to carve out an exception. You can pass a law to say, “peyote is hereby banned, except on reservations.”
> after all, she's entitled to the protection of her government.
According to you she isn’t. I suppose you would even let them kill her if their God commanded it.
> Finally, a fatwa is a blanket obligation that must be honored by ALL Muslims.
Well, amazingly many Muslims ignore them ALL THE TIME.
In part this is because the fatwah has to be by someone who is recognizable by that muslim as an authority. What if one says “I command that you kill Rushdie!” and the other says, “I command that you protect Rushdie’s life with your own!” You cannot logically obey both, so you have to pick and choose.
> Therefore, to outlaw fatwa(s) is to outlaw Muslims.
Ignoring your false premise that every Muslims feels compelled to obey every fatwah, this is no more the case that it outlaws islam than it did the religion in Employment Division v. Smith.
FLS
you can't trust wikipedia on anything controversial, though. its as simple as that.
"Fast forward to the 1990's. We adopt a son from South America and he is raised in a very Anglo town."
I actually find "Anglo" offensive. Not that I get too worried about it or anything, it's just *inaccurate*. Inaccuracies bug me. Am I "Anglo" because I speak English? I work with a couple of Hispanic girls who don't really speak Spanish anymore, did they turn Anglo? "White" doesn't work, not just because it would be Blanco, but Hispanics can be really light, too.
But mostly, you know... I'm not English. Not ever. Like all those Europeans are the same or something. English is a whole different linguistic and whole different people group from Scandinavia. With the exception of a settlement in Dublin we pretty much raided the place.
(Come to think of it, Scots or Irish probably are far more offended at being called Anglo than I am.)
It's sort of like, you know, saying all Asians are the same or calling someone from Okinawa "Japanese."
ALP,
Thank you for your kind words. I agree wholeheartedly that we all need to lighten up and stop being "victims." As I write this I just remembered the one class that has no rights are fat people, particularly fat women. It's always open season on fat folks[I am proudly a member]. Actually, I have the male double whammy...fat and bald. But, I can take it and I can dish it out. And, being a gambler, I bet you can too!
Synova,
At first I thought your post was a satire. But, as I continued to read it appears you were being serious. I see you as a classic over analyzer. "Not that there's anything wrong w/ that." May I suggest some breathing exercises and maybe a hobby.
Since when is the First Amendment suspended for those who DON'T deserve to be offended? The infamous "Piss Christ" art project (and I use "art" very loosely here) is a prime example -- do you think a photo of a crucifix stuck in a jar of pee offended us Christians much? No one DESERVED to be offended by that, but they were. They didn't send a lynch mob after the guy who made it because he was protected by that pesky 1st Amendment. His opponents just had to deal with it. To my knowledge the creator of that trash, Andres Sorrano, is still very much alive and enjoying his original identity. Islam silenced Molly Norris without ever firing a shot or lighting a fuse. If anyone thinks she's the last journalist to whom this will happen, they may be right unless our country grows a pair and proclaims the freedom of speech loud and clear -- even when that speech touches those who don't deserve it. To paraphrase Voltaire, I may not like what you say but as a true blue fan of the First Amendment, I'll defend your right to say it. RIP Molly Norris.
A.W. said...
Employment Division v. Smith answers the whole thing.
Have you informed Islam that Employment Division v. Smith takes precedence over their entire legal system of Sharia? And if so, do they care.
More to the point, has our government informed Muslims that they can't go around issuing murder contracts? Or does the government [also] believe that "Employment... v Smith" is enough to render fatwas null and void? And if they do believe in the doctrine of Null & Void, why are officers of the same court urging Molly Norris to change her identity and go deep into hiding? (see; Fatwa)
And what will Employment, Smith & Sotomayer say when Ms Norris winds up dead, her head separated from her body?
To Muslims such citations aren't worth the paper they're written on. In fact, it would be considered blasphemy if confronted in public, based on Sharia. Prompting even more Fatwas.
On the subject of religious sacrifice, Molly Norris has been duly delivered to the mosque.
And such is the power of Sharia, nary one public official will risk objection.
almost ali
When you talk about what is legal, those citations are everything. But obviously laws don't enforce themselves.
A.W. said...
But obviously laws don't enforce themselves.
Thank you.
I'd even go a step further; enforcement is highly discretionary, and selective - especially regarding Muslims.
I venture to say that not until an infidel is beheaded on the steps of the Supreme Court will such discretion (avoidance) come under official revue.
Meanwhile, the fatwas and ritual "honor" killings shall continue virtually unabated. With the tacit approval of the government as long as the village elders and clerics confine such activities to their tribal areas (such as Dearborn and Union City).
Relevent: "the biggest pile of steaming horseshit I've heard all day."
That's all you ever write anyway
"At first I thought your post was a satire. But, as I continued to read it appears you were being serious. I see you as a classic over analyzer."
Well, yes. I wasn't really fussing about it. More of an observation.
(Just in case you check back.)
ALP said...I toss the word "Guido" around with no apologies (also "Kraut" in honor of my German heritage). If you are a young female, reasonably good looking, and out at the clubs in Italian neighborhoods, you've experienced the "Guido Come-on". Used in this context, "Guido" is supposed to be a bit of an insult due to the lameness of the guy's attitude and ham-handed pick-up technique. I've been surprised at how those of non Italian descent are offended when I use the word. We've become so fucking over-sensitive, we can't even make fun of our own fucking ethnic groups! For crying out loud, if black folks can say "Nigger", I'm sure as hell going to say "Guido"!
I just call them Guids. It works for males and females of the Guid persuasion. A couple of them I know really well.
Ali
if your point was to say enforcement is discretionary all along, then you picked a remarkably poor way to say it.
A.W. continues:
if your point was to say enforcement is discretionary all along...
No, my point was/is that Muslims are not required to obey our laws; see Fatwa v Norris, and Sharia v United States (et al).
While apparently your point was that American Indians are not allowed to smoke peyote.
What Are D.C. Police Doing Enforcing Shariah Law?
Muslims deserve to be ridiculed and hassled about their violent suppression of speech like lay Catholics deserved to be ridiculed and hassled about all the raping priests. Screw Catholics who stayed silent and loyal in the face of that abomination, and, similarly, screw Muslims who do the same in the face of all these violent fatwas.
After enough public pressure, the Catholic laity has also pressured the hierarchy into getting serious about stopping it. Catholics can once again hold their heads up and point to action taken to right the wrong. But at the beginning of the scandal most Catholics were morally derelict.
Until "innocent" Muslims do something about the huge number of violent fanatics sheltered in their midst, yeah they deserve to be offended.
The threat of violence against those who annoy Muslims is pervasive and repeated. Anyone who comes to their attention gets death threats. It is far more important to put pressure on Muslims to deal with this than to protect their delicate, but barbaric, sensibilities.
If millions of us burned Korans every time some imam issued another stupid fatwa, then THEY'D have to start thinking hard before the next death threat, wouldn't they?
Find me a Muslim who's speaking out against this fatwa against this girl. To hell with the rest of them.
Muslims deserve to be ridiculed and hassled about their violent suppression of speech like lay Catholics deserved to be ridiculed and hassled about all the raping priests. Screw Catholics who stayed silent and loyal in the face of that abomination, and, similarly, screw Muslims who do the same in the face of all these violent fatwas.
After enough public pressure, the Catholic laity has also pressured the hierarchy into getting serious about stopping it. Catholics can once again hold their heads up and point to action taken to right the wrong. But at the beginning of the scandal most Catholics were morally derelict.
Until "innocent" Muslims do something about the huge number of violent fanatics sheltered in their midst, yeah they deserve to be offended.
The threat of violence against those who annoy Muslims is pervasive and repeated. Anyone who comes to their attention gets death threats. It is far more important to put pressure on Muslims to deal with this than to protect their delicate, but barbaric, sensibilities.
If millions of us burned Korans every time some imam issued another stupid fatwa, then THEY'D have to start thinking hard before the next death threat, wouldn't they?
Find me a Muslim who's speaking out against this fatwa against this girl. To hell with the rest of them.
Anne – You say that your insular collective notion of “we” work very hard to not offend Catholics. I ask you to consider that just because you (apparently all of you and your folks) do not watch Jay Leno, that doesn’t mean that he is not a serial anti-Catholic bigot. Any 5th grader could find the decades long (as recently as 8 times this month) evidence that prime time Leno has desecrated the Pope, the act of communion and other deeply held tenets of the Catholic faith on a routine basis.
Of course your groups of “we” don’t watch MTV. Last week – September 13, 2010 - Lady Gaga released Alejandro” – a music video where she plays the Madonna, abuses Catholic symbols, “dresses as a nun in a red latex outfit, swallows a rosary and manages to get raped by her S&M posse of men.”
While it was once the main platform of the founder of the Know Nothing political movement in the 19th century United States, anti-Catholic animus is the bread and butter for Comedy Central’s South Park show. I especially encourage readers with a strong stomach to view "Bloody Mary"- episode 14 of season 9 -has been re-aired despite promises from the network that it no so deliberately blaspheme and offend Catholics. Yet South Park author’s must be seen as cultural heroes for cowering to the consequences of Islam offense.
None of your “kind” watch Comedy Central right? During a very recent episode of the Comedy Central program, “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart,” comedian Louis C.K. concluded his interview by noting there were certain words that he could not utter on his new show “Louie” that began airing on FX in June. After offering a few examples of the verboten lexicon, he babbled out the following: “I was going to say that the pope f**** boys….” [The obscenity was bleeped out.]
Bill Maher and Sarah Silverman are only two other comics who join the minions of Hollywood groupthink to intentionally defile, ridicule and blaspheme the Catholic Church on a regular basis.
They do this because it is safe. It is sort of American to hate Catholics when you do not know the roots of fascism against Catholics in the Protestant Revolution in England especially. Our ill educated citizenry today knows nothing of the centuries of marginalization and fascist efforts to kill the Catholic faith and so they behave very sheepishly – as our Orewllian Age youth are trained to do - laugh it up and jump on the bandwagon against the ‘Roman Way’ – just like the Know Nothings of the 19th century America.
Just because you and yours work hard at not offending anyone – and that is of course part of the silent inculcation but essential acculturation to academic and government survival on the job – the rest of us folks who might turn on a show on the Comedy Channel, late night comedy on FX or Comedy Central, The Tonight Show or MTV see it on a regular basis. And I am only scratching the surface of all the ways Catholics are ridiculed and marginalized in other venues.
No one works hard at not offending Catholics except maybe those at the “Madison Wisconsin Café” where mostly government workers – and that included academics – gather to talk to other folks living on the company town gravy train. In that world, everyone is equal, all are respected, no one hates anyone, no scores are kept in soccer, grade inflation assures those with money the passport degrees they want to purchase, and Catholics are just plum welcome to join in and not one person will start denigrating their views on abortion or female priests. Because you know – we work very hard to not offend Catholics.
Anne – You say that your insular collective notion of “we” work very hard to not offend Catholics. I ask you to consider that just because you (apparently all of you and your folks) do not watch Jay Leno, that doesn’t mean that he is not a serial anti-Catholic bigot. Any 5th grader could find the decades long (as recently as 8 times this month) evidence that prime time Leno has desecrated the Pope, the act of communion and other deeply held tenets of the Catholic faith on a routine basis.
Of course your groups of “we” don’t watch MTV. Last week – September 13, 2010 - Lady Gaga released Alejandro” – a music video where she plays the Madonna, abuses Catholic symbols, “dresses as a nun in a red latex outfit, swallows a rosary and manages to get raped by her S&M posse of men.”
While it was once the main platform of the founder of the Know Nothing political movement in the 19th century United States, anti-Catholic animus is the bread and butter for Comedy Central’s South Park show. I especially encourage readers with a strong stomach to view "Bloody Mary"- episode 14 of season 9 -has been re-aired despite promises from the network that it no so deliberately blaspheme and offend Catholics. Yet South Park author’s must be seen as cultural heroes for cowering to the consequences of Islam offense.
None of your “kind” watch Comedy Central right? During a very recent episode of the Comedy Central program, “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart,” comedian Louis C.K. concluded his interview by noting there were certain words that he could not utter on his new show “Louie” that began airing on FX in June. After offering a few examples of the verboten lexicon, he babbled out the following: “I was going to say that the pope f**** boys….” [The obscenity was bleeped out.]
Bill Maher and Sarah Silverman are only two other comics who join the minions of Hollywood groupthink to intentionally defile, ridicule and blaspheme the Catholic Church on a regular basis.
They do this because it is safe. It is sort of American to hate Catholics when you do not know the roots of fascism against Catholics in the Protestant Revolution in England especially. Our ill educated citizenry today knows nothing of the centuries of marginalization and fascist efforts to kill the Catholic faith and so they behave very sheepishly – as our Orewllian Age youth are trained to do - laugh it up and jump on the bandwagon against the ‘Roman Way’ – just like the Know Nothings of the 19th century America.
Just because you and yours work hard at not offending anyone – and that is of course part of the silent inculcation but essential acculturation to academic and government survival on the job – the rest of us folks who might turn on a show on the Comedy Channel, late night comedy on FX or Comedy Central, The Tonight Show or MTV see it on a regular basis. And I am only scratching the surface of all the ways Catholics are ridiculed and marginalized in other venues.
No one works hard at not offending Catholics except maybe those at the “Madison Wisconsin Café” where mostly government workers – and that included academics – gather to talk to other folks living on the company town gravy train. In that world, everyone is equal, all are respected, no one hates anyone, no scores are kept in soccer, grade inflation assures those with money the passport degrees they want to purchase, and Catholics are just plum welcome to join in and not one person will start denigrating their views on abortion or female priests. Because you know – we work very hard to not offend Catholics.
.
Anne – You say that your insular collective notion of “we” work very hard to not offend Catholics. I ask you to consider that just because you (apparently all of you and your folks) do not watch Jay Leno, that doesn’t mean that he is not a serial anti-Catholic bigot. Any 5th grader could find the decades long (as recently as 8 times this month) evidence that prime time Leno has desecrated the Pope, the act of communion and other deeply held tenets of the Catholic faith on a routine basis.
Of course your groups of “we” might not watch MTV. Last week – September 13, 2010 - Lady Gaga released Alejandro” – a music video where she plays the Madonna, abuses Catholic symbols, “dresses as a nun in a red latex outfit, swallows a rosary and manages to get raped by her S&M posse of men.”
Do any of your “kind” watch Comedy Central right? During a very recent episode of the Comedy Central program, “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart,” comedian Louis C.K. babbled out the following: “I was going to say that the pope f**** boys….” [The obscenity was bleeped out.]
South Park (see Bloody Mary Episode #9 if you have a strong stomach), Jon Stewart, Bill Maher and Sarah Silverman are only a few of the cultural venues who march in step with theHollywood groupthink to intentionally defile, ridicule and blaspheme the Catholic Church on a regular basis. And when we watch – and we are the audience or the readers of these texts – we are sponsoring them with our thumbs up or thumbs down votes. So it is not a sufficient argument to say “we are not offending” when we patronize the blasphemous texts against any particular faith.
They do this because it is safe. It is sort of American to hate Catholics when you do not know the roots of fascism against Catholics in the Protestant Revolution in England especially. Our ill educated citizenry today knows nothing of the centuries of marginalization and fascist efforts to kill the Catholic faith and so they behave very sheepishly – as our Orewllian Age youth are trained to do - laugh it up and jump on the bandwagon against the ‘Roman Way’ – just like the Know Nothings of the 19th century America.
Just because you and yours work hard at not offending anyone – and that is of course part of the silent inculcation but essential acculturation to academic and government survival on the job – the rest of us folks who might turn on a show on the Comedy Channel, late night comedy on FX or Comedy Central, The Tonight Show or MTV see it on a regular basis. And I am only scratching the surface of all the ways Catholics are ridiculed and marginalized in other venues.
No one works hard at not offending Catholics except those at the “Madison Wisconsin Café” where mostly government workers – and that included academics – gather to talk to other folks living on the company town gravy train. In that world, everyone is equal, all are respected, no one hates anyone, no scores are kept in soccer, grade inflation assures those with money the passport degrees they want to purchase, and Catholics are just plum welcome to join in and not one person will start denigrating their views on abortion or female priests. Because you know – we work very hard to not offend Catholics.
Anne – You say that your insular collective notion of “we” work very hard to not offend Catholics. I ask you to consider that just because you (apparently all of you and your folks) do not watch Jay Leno, that doesn’t mean that he is not a serial anti-Catholic bigot. Any 5th grader could find the decades long (as recently as 8 times this month) evidence that prime time Leno has desecrated the Pope, the act of communion and other deeply held tenets of the Catholic faith on a routine basis.
South Park (see Bloody Mary Episode #9 if you have a strong stomach), Jon Stewart, Bill Maher and Sarah Silverman are only a few of the cultural venues who march in step with theHollywood groupthink to intentionally defile, ridicule and blaspheme the Catholic Church on a regular basis. And when we watch – and we are the audience or the readers of these texts – we are sponsoring them with our thumbs up or thumbs down votes. So it is not a sufficient argument to say “we are not offending” when we patronize the blasphemous texts against any particular faith.
They do this because it is safe. It is sort of American to hate Catholics when you do not know the roots of fascism against Catholics in the Protestant Revolution in England especially. Our ill educated citizenry today knows nothing of the centuries of marginalization and fascist efforts to kill the Catholic faith and so they behave very sheepishly – as our Orewllian Age youth are trained to do - laugh it up and jump on the bandwagon against the ‘Roman Way’ – just like the Know Nothings of the 19th century America.
Just because you and yours work hard at not offending anyone – and that is of course part of the silent inculcation but essential acculturation to academic and government survival on the job – the rest of us folks who might turn on a show on the Comedy Channel, late night comedy on FX or Comedy Central, The Tonight Show or MTV see it on a regular basis. And I am only scratching the surface of all the ways Catholics are ridiculed and marginalized in other venues.
No one works hard at not offending Catholics except those at the “Madison Wisconsin Café” where mostly government workers – and that included academics – gather to talk to other folks living on the company town gravy train. In that world, everyone is equal, all are respected, no one hates anyone, no scores are kept in soccer, grade inflation assures those with money the passport degrees they want to purchase, and Catholics are just plum welcome to join in and not one person will start denigrating their views on abortion or female priests. Because you know – we work very hard to not offend Catholics.
Anne – You say that your insular collective notion of “we” work very hard to not offend Catholics. I ask you to consider that just because you (apparently all of you and your folks) do not watch Jay Leno, that doesn’t mean that he is not a serial anti-Catholic bigot. Any 5th grader could find the decades long (as recently as 8 times this month) evidence that prime time Leno has desecrated the Pope, the act of communion and other deeply held tenets of the Catholic faith on a routine basis.
South Park (see Bloody Mary Episode #9 if you have a strong stomach), Jon Stewart, Bill Maher and Sarah Silverman are only a few of the cultural venues who march in step with theHollywood groupthink to intentionally defile, ridicule and blaspheme the Catholic Church on a regular basis. And when we watch – and we are the audience or the readers of these texts – we are sponsoring them with our thumbs up or thumbs down votes. So it is not a sufficient argument to say “we are not offending” when we patronize the blasphemous texts against any particular faith.
They do this because it is safe. It is sort of American to hate Catholics when you do not know the roots of fascism against Catholics in the Protestant Revolution in England especially. Our ill educated citizenry today knows nothing of the centuries of marginalization and fascist efforts to kill the Catholic faith and so they behave very sheepishly – as our Orewllian Age youth are trained to do - laugh it up and jump on the bandwagon against the ‘Roman Way’ – just like the Know Nothings of the 19th century America.
Just because you and yours work hard at not offending anyone – and that is of course part of the silent inculcation but essential acculturation to academic and government survival on the job – the rest of us folks who might turn on a show on the Comedy Channel, late night comedy on FX or Comedy Central, The Tonight Show or MTV see it on a regular basis. And I am only scratching the surface of all the ways Catholics are ridiculed and marginalized in other venues.
No one works hard at not offending Catholics except those at the “Madison Wisconsin Café” where mostly government workers – and that included academics – gather to talk to other folks living on the company town gravy train. In that world, everyone is equal, all are respected, no one hates anyone, no scores are kept in soccer, grade inflation assures those with money the passport degrees they want to purchase, and Catholics are just plum welcome to join in and not one person will start denigrating their views on abortion or female priests. Because you know – we work very hard to not offend Catholics.
Anne – You say that your insular collective notion of “we” work very hard to not offend Catholics. I ask you to consider that just because you (apparently all of you and your folks) do not watch Jay Leno, that doesn’t mean that he is not a serial anti-Catholic bigot. Any 5th grader could find the decades long (as recently as 8 times this month) evidence that prime time Leno has desecrated the Pope, the act of communion and other deeply held tenets of the Catholic faith on a routine basis.
South Park (see Bloody Mary Episode #9 if you have a strong stomach), Jon Stewart, Bill Maher and Sarah Silverman are only a few of the cultural venues who march in step with the Hollywood groupthink to intentionally defile, ridicule and blaspheme the Catholic Church on a regular basis. And when we watch – and we are the audience or the readers of these texts – we are sponsoring them with our thumbs up or thumbs down votes. So it is not a sufficient argument to say “we are not offending” when we patronize the blasphemous texts against any particular faith.
They do this because it is safe. It is sort of American to hate Catholics when you do not know the roots of fascism against Catholics in the Protestant Revolution in England especially. Our ill educated citizenry today knows nothing of the centuries of marginalization and fascist efforts to kill the Catholic faith and so they behave very sheepishly – as our Orewllian Age youth are trained to do - laugh it up and jump on the bandwagon against the ‘Roman Way’ – just like the Know Nothings of the 19th century America.
Just because you and yours work hard at not offending anyone – and that is of course part of the silent inculcation but essential acculturation to academic and government survival on the job – the rest of us folks who might turn on a show on the Comedy Channel, late night comedy on FX or Comedy Central, The Tonight Show or MTV see it on a regular basis.
No one works hard at not offending Catholics except those at the “Madison Wisconsin Café” where mostly government workers – and that included academics – gather to talk to other folks living on the company town gravy train. In that world, everyone is equal, all are respected, no one hates anyone, no scores are kept in soccer, grade inflation assures those with money the passport degrees they want to purchase, and Catholics are just plum welcome to join in and not one person will start denigrating their views on abortion or female priests. Because you know – we work very hard to not offend Catholics.
Anne – You say that your insular collective notion of “we” work very hard to not offend Catholics. I ask you to consider that just because you (apparently all of you and your folks) do not watch Jay Leno, that doesn’t mean that he is not a serial anti-Catholic bigot. Any 5th grader could find the decades long (as recently as 8 times this month) evidence that prime time Leno has desecrated the Pope, the act of communion and other deeply held tenets of the Catholic faith on a routine basis.
South Park (see Bloody Mary Episode #9 if you have a strong stomach), Jon Stewart, Bill Maher and Sarah Silverman are only a few of the cultural venues who march in step with the Hollywood groupthink to intentionally defile, ridicule and blaspheme the Catholic Church on a regular basis. And when we watch – and we are the audience or the readers of these texts – we are sponsoring them with our thumbs up or thumbs down votes. So it is not a sufficient argument to say “we are not offending” when we patronize the blasphemous texts against any particular faith.
They do this because it is safe. It is sort of American to hate Catholics when you do not know the roots of fascism against Catholics in the Protestant Revolution in England especially. Our ill educated citizenry today knows nothing of the centuries of marginalization and fascist efforts to kill the Catholic faith and so they behave very sheepishly – as our Orewllian Age youth are trained to do - laugh it up and jump on the bandwagon against the ‘Roman Way’ – just like the Know Nothings of the 19th century America.
No one works hard at not offending Catholics except those at the “Madison Wisconsin Café” where mostly government workers – and that included academics – gather to talk to other folks living on the company town gravy train. In that world, everyone is equal, all are respected, no one hates anyone, no scores are kept in soccer, grade inflation assures those with money the passport degrees they want to purchase, and Catholics are just plum welcome to join in and not one person will start denigrating their views on abortion or female priests. Because you know – we work very hard to not offend Catholics.
Anne – You say that your insular collective notion of “we” work very hard to not offend Catholics. I ask you to consider that just because you (apparently all of you and your folks) do not watch Jay Leno, that doesn’t mean that he is not a serial anti-Catholic bigot. Any 5th grader could find the decades long (as recently as 8 times this month) evidence that prime time Leno has desecrated the Pope, the act of communion and other deeply held tenets of the Catholic faith on a routine basis.
Why hate on Catholics? They do this because it is safe. It is sort of American to hate Catholics when you do not know the roots of fascism against Catholics in the Protestant Revolution in England especially. Our ill educated citizenry today knows nothing of the centuries of marginalization and fascist efforts to kill the Catholic faith and so they behave very sheepishly – as our Orewllian Age youth are trained to do - laugh it up and jump on the bandwagon against the ‘Roman Way’ – just like the Know Nothings of the 19th century America.
Just because you and yours work hard at not offending anyone – and that is of course part of the silent inculcation but essential acculturation to academic and government survival on the job – the rest of us folks who might turn on a show on the Comedy Channel, late night comedy on FX or Comedy Central, The Tonight Show or MTV see it on a regular basis.
No one works hard at not offending Catholics except those at the “Madison Wisconsin Café” where mostly government workers – and that included academics – gather to talk to other folks living on the company town gravy train. In that world, everyone is equal, all are respected, no one hates anyone, no scores are kept in soccer, grade inflation assures those with money the passport degrees they want to purchase, and Catholics are just plum welcome to join in and not one person will start denigrating their views on abortion or female priests. Because you know – we work very hard to not offend Catholics.
I think that people are hypocrites.
You nuts on here complaining about it are being silly. I bet a bunch of you also complain about the proposed mosque in NYC.
People tend to let their view of the freedom of speech get skewed by whether or not it affects themselves or someone else. There is a right for that Terry Jones to have burned the Qur'an. There is a definite right, guaranteed by the freedom of speech, for someone to burn a stack of bibles upon a bonfire made of wooden crucifixes. But just because you are allowed to do a thing does not necessarily make it right.
Wow. Such an innocuous statement, very generalized and also very hard to dispute, really. But let us hear all you guys start to lambaste me for it. Whatever. Hypocrites.
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