More than a third of conservative Republicans now say Obama is a Muslim, nearly double the percentage saying so early last year. Independents, too, are now more apt to see the president as a Muslim: Among independents, 18 percent say he is a Muslim, up eight percentage points.So the less popular Obama is generally, the more likely he is to be perceived as a Muslim? Is this fair to Obama? Is this fair to Muslims?
The linked WaPo article tags on this final paragraph:
In the Time poll, 25 percent say most Muslims in the United States are not patriotic Americans. But the survey also indicates that the public's opposition to the center may be more complicated than just anti-Muslim sentiment. Fifty-five percent said they would accept a Muslim community center and place of worship two blocks from their own home.May be more complicated! Good lord! The Washington Post has a low opinion of Americans!
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233 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 233 of 233Joe - ask the non-Muslim residents of Hamtramck or Dearborn how much they enjoy it.
Well ask the agnostics or Jews or Atheists how much they like Matisns, Compline, Vespers and the like at a Catholic Church.
I guess here's my fundamental question about Obama's questionable ties to Islam - is it the prophet Muhammed (PBUH) that requires him to go on vacation every month? Or is he just so tired from having his first real job?
Joe - uh.. last time I checked the Catholic church doesn't broadcast their Hail Marys in the streets.
@traditionalguy Yes, my friends, too (both Indian and also european from near the balkin region where it was important).
I saw him as an annoying college identity crisis poser rather than a hardcore practioner of the faith, but it's amazing how those little poses you adopt in college harden into a real personal creed as you hit your 30s/40s and start having to pass your little superficial rebellions onto your kids as the Real Thing. The "No Christmas" is instantly recognizable to anyone remotely my age as a college pose hardened into dogma. It's all over the place esp in academic towns including the arrogance.
Ahhh, the compliant media:
Obama a Muslim? Rumors gain steam, defying facts (AP) - 1 hour ago
AP - "President Obama is a Muslim." "He's not an American citizen." "He wasn't even born here."
I wonder why there's so much haze around Obama? For fuck's sake people, the media documented every weekend George W Bush spent from 1972-1973 but CONSPIRED to cover up Barack Obama's church, pastor, college years, life in Indonesia, etc etc. I can't imagine why people would spin conspiracy theories.
Joe - uh.. last time I checked the Catholic church doesn't broadcast their Hail Marys in the streets.
8/19/10 7:05 PM
They ring bells FIVE TIMES A DAY TOO...or have.
Bells ain't a call to prayer. They mark the time. Nice try. Back to the drawing board.
C3 ...Muslims are all you around in the Larger cities. After the 1996 Olympics, Atlanta saw a great influx bringing a large part of the family's money here with them. The Kenyans and Somalis coming in then were also largely Muslims. Islam is not racially segregated, although many Sunni Arabs are ethnic/family status conscious. You can trust a Muslim in a business deal, but they expect to be in control and don't like Americans very much except for their usefulness. The younger sons have two big weaknesses:they are enamored of naturally blonde women, and they like to drink alcohol.
His "religion" is really pointless, he could be Catholic, or Muslim or Atheist all that matters:
1) he be honest about it; and
2) That the he be competent...and on that front he just is not making the grade.
Conservative Jew, Devout Catholic, Practicing Muslim, I don't care, but really nearly 10% unemployment, a double dip recession a strong possibility, and an incompetent CEO is a big problem, no matter what the POTUS' sect is....
Let's be honest, Carter was a far better Christian than Obama, but enither could manage themselves out of a wet paper bag. so who really cares about whether he is "devout", a devout Christian or Muslim or Marxist?
No they are only BELLS ringing loudly..
Good Lord! Ann Althouse has a high opinion of bigots!
Ritmo - are you one of the 35% of Democrats who believe that Bush knew about 9/11?
Let me be clear... as the son of a white woman from Kansas and a black man from Kenya I know what being a Christian is all about. There are many who say I should either admit I am the 32nd grandson of the Prophet Muhammed peacebeuponhim or I should be jailed for all eternity in one of those cool prisms like the bad guys from the Superman movies. I reject this as a false choice between my true Muslim heritage and a really cool way to get out of running in 2012. That said, we will fix this problem that is bedeviling 1.5 Billion of the world's citizenry who cannot find a nice to worship AND swim in lower Manhattan. My administration will address this problem and redress their grievances. We must stand together like Hands Across America once did while I was in college doing unspecified things with unspecified people smoking unspecified stimulants. We must join our Muslim and Black Liberation hands together to make a circle that envelopes the bitter, mean people who, were it not for me, would still be allowed to cling to their guns and their non-Upper West Side-approved religions. Thank you and I Bless America.
Ritmo...We bigots who are about to be slandered, salute you. Free speech can be messy.
Alpha Liberal wrote:
"A YES answer may not infer conspiracy at all, just acknowledging Bush was warned of probable attacks from bin Laden and went off to cut wood. He took NO action. None. Zero. Zip.
So, yeah, Bush was warned, therefore he did know SOMETHING was possible/likely and must not have been as surprised as the rest of us. This is undisputable so a "yes" in that vein is not at all out of line with the clear facts. "
No, that wasn't the only assertion and you know it. The whole Truther movement was predicated on the fact that there were charges placed in the WTC which brought it down, which means that the charges HAD to have been planted by the govt who had to have known about the attack ahead of time. Further, there was some batshit crazy story about how the plane that hit the Pentagon wasn't really a plane at all.
But even if you take the talking point you mention at it's face - what did you want BUsh to do? There was a report that said Al Qaeda was determined to attack us. It didnt' say how, or where or when? WIth info that vague what did you expect Bush to do - implement the Patriot Act? Do you think that Al Qaeda is determined to attack us is somehow new info? couldn't we tell that based on their Fatwah in 1998 and their attack on the USS Cole for example? YEt another completely BULLSHIT talking point to simply bash Bush.
And then of course you guys trot out RIchard Clarke who pronounced that AL Qaeda was the biggest threat we faced, and that Bush ignored the threat to concentrate on Iraq. Yet, did you lefties actually believe that? Considering Michael Moore saying "There is no terrorist threat" and all the talk of how Bush was hyping the threat and trying to spread fear and that the terrorist attacks were not an existential threat and all the other BULLSHIT talking points not even worth mentioning, it's quite clear that the only reason this attack was made was becauase you guys thought Bush was weak and could be attacked based on his incompetence.
So now Bush is incompetent igorning the real threat, spreading fear and hyping the threat and personally involved in 9/11 helping to bring down the WTC for some nefarious purpose.
The left has no cause to call people crazy for believing crazy things NOR for being mad about the opposition party hyping false information to damage their opponents.
The University of Ohio tends to slip questions into its more general polls about conspiracy theories. Whenever they release a new one, of those, I'm always surprised by how many people believe irrational things.
Carol - the idea I was trying to convay, was that we each come to our faith or belief systen in our own ways. You need something in a way you need it and I need the way I need it. For some the Catholic faith works. For some, it's it's x, or y or z...or a mix. And if you're not harming anyone, it's none of my concern how YOU do this.
Mike, if you think it's sophmoric, that's certainly you right. I know a lot of folks who have cut and pasted a spiritual practice that isn't in the traditional mode. It's worked for them, helped them turn their lives around.. Man, that's good enough for me.
And similarly Alpha, you bozos were just as hypocritiacl on the REAL war on terror in Afghanistan.
The left didn't REALLY want us to go into Afghanistan, they simply said that Bush diverted from the real war on terror because they didn't want him to go into Iraq, and that was simply ONE more BULLSHIT talking point they trotted out in their endless attack on Bush. You guys, though have no moral core whatsoever and no smear is too low for you guys. Hence the whole chicken hawk neo con war monger argument you guys trotted out for more than a year. As if the good war you guys wanted wasn't in fact an occupation or a war. And I ceritanly didn't see all those lefties calling Iraq a diversion from the REAL war on terror enlisting in droves to fight the REAL war on terror. So, you guys were a bunch of chicken hawks too. And Afgahnistan lasted longer than all other wars combined, and we were air raiding villages too, and if the NYTimes leaked the NIE report I bet you would find that occupying Afghanistan also increased terrorism around the world.
Was there a single talking point you guys trotted out that was based on actual conviction? You guys are the fakest bunch of demagoging scumbags in modern history.
Oh, and remember the whole notion that Bush actually had Osama Bin Laden and was holding him for an october surprise? So thinking that Obama is a muslim is just beyond the pale and crazy, but thinking that Bush was using OBL as an october surprise, why that's totally rational and not at all a smear designed to spread outrage and fear about the opposition.
Just shut up with your trolling, the fact that you are ginning up outrage now is making me want to puke. If you want to protest someone, why not go after Obama who is still keeping Guantanamo open, is expanding on the wiretapping and extraditions started by Bush has done nothing to end the Patriot Act. All the things that your kind were SO outraged about, and now cannot seem to find a minutes worth of outrage over other than a few people who express disappointment? Disappointment? That Barack is the second coming of Hitler and a war mongering neo con to boot (if we apply all your BULLSHIT talking points that is)? Surely that's worth more than some tsk tsking and mild regret on your side. Again, the left is the ou guys are the fakest bunch of demagoging scumbags in modern history.
Matt wrote:
I hate to tell you this but Christianity is actually designed to be the easiest of all religions to follow. You simply have to believe. That is one of the main reasons Christianity has risen to the prominence that it has over all other religions - many of which require more sacrifice to attain enlightenment.
If you want to go by rock and rollers check out The Christian Life by the Byrds. They weren't rock at that point, and Gram Parsons was more of a country guy than a rocker but whatever. Also, they were covering the song and didn't write it themselves.
Anyway here's the lyrics:
My buddies tell me that I should've waited
They say I'm missing a whole world of fun (Christianity is apparently not very fun, can't really sin like the others)
But I still love them and I sing with pride
I like the Christian life
I won't lose a friend by heeding God's call
For what is a friend who'd want you to fall (you can lose friends if you are Christians because you can no longer live the life you previously did as some of the things your friends want you to do will lead your sould to damnation)
Others find pleasure in things I despise (like sin)
I like the Christian life
My buddies shun me since I turned to Jesus (being Christian causes you to lose your friends who now shun you)
They say I'm missing a whole world of fun
I live without them and walk in the light (you have to give up many things in life and walk in the light - meaning follow the path that doesnt' cause your soul to go into damnation)
I like the Christian life
I won't lose a friend by heeding God's call
For what is a friend who'd want you to fall
Others find pleasure in things I despise
I like the Christian life
I like the Christian life
Sounds like it's kind of hard to live the Christian life. You can't have fun, your friends shun you, you have to do without certain pleasures to be able to walk in the light. Etc.
Rialby wrote: "Bells ain't a call to prayer. They mark the time. Nice try. Back to the drawing board."
To be fair, it certainly is a call to prayer. That's why they have the bells. In the old days it told the farmers out in the fields when it was time to say matins, vespers, etc.
I think the big difference is not the music or the call to prayer, but the screaming hatred from the minaret and calls to kill Americans which I heard so often overseas.
I'll remember all this Democratic rhetoric about freedom of religion. Let's see how long it lasts.
Oh, jeebus...teh stupid...it burns!
Kirby Olson said:
"It's possible to be a Marxist Christian. (Liberation theology along the lines of Rev Wright is Marxist Christianity.)
Is it possible to be a Marxist Muslim? If not, then Obama is not a Muslim."
Blogger Joe said, in reply to the last quote above:
"Saddam Hussein, tried it...of coourse he's not exactly the role model a SUCCESFUL POTUS might want to emulate?"
One thing is pellucidly clear in all this: neither Obama nor Hussein can be accurately called Marxist, or anything close to it.
As for the remarks about "Marxist Christians," remember Christ's words: "It is easier for a camel to pass through th eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter Heaven."
In other words: it ain't happening!
Does that make Christ a Marxist, (forgetting the anachronsim of Christ having lived two thousand years before Marx)?
I don't know...but he did admonish his followers to give away all their possessions and to tend to the least among us...the halt, the lame, the sick, the outcast. He would certainly be tarred with the Marxist brush by contemporary smear merchants and stupid people if he lived and were a public figure today.
He is a Non Allegiant Non Natural Born Citizen Usurper (his father was never a citizen). Obama has been installed (with help from the treasonous congress, all of them) to put the final nails in the coffin of the sovereignty of we the people. The current discussion of Birthright citizenship is further cover for Obama, who seeks to equate Native born citizenship w/ Natural Born citizenship. Of course those that are supposedly knowledgeable of the USC (like Althouse) fail to speak the truth about Obama's Ineligibility. They aid and abet him. The thought that the founders would have thought the children of aliens eligible to be POTUS is laughable.
i write out my thoughts about the is obambi a muslim thing, here:
http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2010/08/on-confusion-about-obamas-religion.html
I can only guess from what I've witnessed that he is a total heretic.
Attended a muslim school, which they claim was not a madrassas but was nonetheless muslim.
In his four years in Indonesia, Obama went to Catholic school for three years. Then his parents moved to a different neighborhood, so he went to Public Elementary School Menteng No. 1 for his last year.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0703250340mar25-archive,0,7305690.story
last time I checked the Catholic church doesn't broadcast their Hail Marys in the streets.
They used to. At least the Angelus could be heard across the fields:
http://www.shafe.co.uk/crystal/images/lshafe/Millet_Angelus.jpg
V. The angel of the Lord declared unto Mary.
R. And she conceived by the Holy Spirit.
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
V. Behold the handmaid of the Lord.
R. Be it done unto me according to your Word.
Hail Mary...
V. And the Word was made flesh.
R. And dwelt among us.
Hail Mary...
V. Pray for us, O Holy Mother of God.
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
Let us pray: Pour forth,we beseech thee, O Lord, pour Your grace into our hearts, that we to whom the incarnation of Christ Thy son was made known by the message of an angel, may by His Passion and Cross be brought to the glory of His resurrection; through the same Christ our Lord. Amen.
Glory be...
The problems started with...Abraham (Ibrahim). All the religions that madman--that is, assuming he existed--founded turned out crazy.
A few early papists added a bit of greek rationality which may have helped--Aristotle et al being a bit superior to Abraham and his descendants (even including that sob sister...JC)--but that's mostly been forgotten not to say updated via Copernicus and the rest (actually not accepted by official catholic or protestant leaders (including the buffoon Luther) until 1700s or so..and still not by some muslim Imams).
Namaste
Some Dems demonizing NY Mosque opponents:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/115107-dean-some-dems-demnizing-ny-mosque-opponents-
Dean means people like Alpha Lberal and HDHouse. Why must you spread all that fear and disssension? Bigots!
Also, in the beating a dead horse dept, the wife of the Imam weighed in today and vowed not to cave in to the COMPROMISE offered by many to simply move the mosque to a place less inecendiary vowing to fight against "Islamophobia".
Now, we keep hearing about this so called Islamophobial. Yet after 9/11 no Muslims were rounded up. After the Fort Hood Massacre no muslims were rounded up, Bush went out of his way to delcare that Islam was a religion of peace, no muslims were EVER denied the abliity to pray and other than in the fevered imagination of Hollywood and the left, there was no widescale discrimination or lynching of muslims in any way. So why the need to teach US about Islamophobia. I think we have already shown remarkable tolerance, tolerance which the Muslim side of the equation has yet to learn. ANd it seems to be a point of pride to her that she wants to poke us in the eye to teach us a lesson that we must learn according to her. Yet, who is the one showing intolerance?
"We have to educate them on being able to distinguish between us and on the issue of Islamophobia" She declares. It might help if the more moderate Muslims actually spoke up more and defended their brand of Islam and in fact DENOUNCED in no uncertain terms the more radical version. Yet her husband can't renounce Hamas and suggests that we are partly to blame for 9/11. What arrogance. ANd now she needs to teach us a lesson in tolerance to boot? Why not recognize that 9/11 was a personal tragedy affecting many and is a raw open wound, and perhaps now is not the time to teach people lessons. Especially when this country has been nothing but tolerant, has already offered to move the mosque to a location that will not rile peoplle up. And why is this TOLEERANCE a lesson that muslims never have to learn themselves. If she REALLY wants to separate the moderates from the radicals, then the tolerance lesson is one that that radicals need to learn and the moderates need to teach. So take the lessons to tho se who need it.
Yet after 9/11 no Muslims were rounded up.
Are you serious? Hundreds of Muslims were rounded up in the wake of 9/11:
http://www.justice.gov/oig/special/0306/full.pdf
The more I read these polls the more I realize people are just dumb.
Former law student wrote:
Are you serious? Hundreds of Muslims were rounded up in the wake of 9/11:
http://www.justice.gov/oig/special/0306/full.pdf
From your article:
Shortly after the attacks, the Attorney General directed the FBI and other federal law enforcement personnel to use “every available law enforcement tool” to arrest persons who “participate in, or lend support to, terrorist activities.”1 One of the principal responses by law enforcement authorities after the September 11 attacks was to use the federal immigration laws to detain aliens suspected of having possible ties to terrorism. Within 2 months of the attacks, law enforcement authorities had detained, at least for questioning, more than 1,200 citizens and aliens nationwide.2 Many of these individuals were questioned and subsequently released without being charged with a criminal or immigration offense. Many others, however, were arrested and detained for violating federal immigration law
The FBI rounded up muslims whohad potential ties to the attack and/or terorristic activity. There was,however, no rounding up of Muslims in general who were put into camps and lost their livelihoods like say happened to the Japanese, simply because they were Japanese. The context was always that these particular individuals had potential ties to terrorist activities. Which should have happened. And by the way, before you go all out and say this is an example of us being bigoted or intolerant, dems were damning BUsh for allowing certain members of the Saudi Royal family to fly out of the country. In other words, when it suited their BUsh bashing THEY thought that muslims should be detained as well.
But in either case, it's nothing like what happened to the Japanese under FDR. And this, despite the constanst drum beat of the left that there was going to be a muslim backlash of epic proportions.
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