I’ve seen a lot of shitty primary candidates in my time, so I’m ready to buy that a relatively inarticulate nobody with a closet full of skeletons would spend $10K on a quixotic run for Senate. What feels off about Greene is his complete lack of excitement and engagement. Usually a nut who’s going to blow his last dollar on a campaign does it for some crazy reason that animates them, and they talk about it incessantly. Greene has none of that. Put that together with his resume, and I smell a ratfuck.Well, at least he's only "relatively inarticulate." What induced that restraint? Why not call him inarticulate? There's a longstanding issue of patronizing black people by calling them "articulate." Remember discussions like this after some clueless folk — e.g., Joe Biden — called Barack Obama "articulate"? (And here's the old "He speaks so well" Chris Rock riff about Colin Powell.)
Now, House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn has called for an investigation. Into what? People had to vote for Alvin Greene, and he got 60% of the vote. It would be interesting to know why the people of South Carolina voted the way they did, but I don't think you should sic the government on someone who wins against the odds. Bring out the information informally, if you like. Don't use the government to intimidate him.
And then there is the obscenity charge, based on Greene's supposedly asking a woman "to look at pornography on his screen at a computer lab in a University of South Carolina dormitory" and saying "Let's go to your room." That could have been talked about during the primary campaign, but apparently, no one saw fit to say anything until afterward. Now, Greene says:
"I'm on the not-guilty side of things... I have to be. I mean, I mean, I mean. I have no comment, I mean."... Greene is at first reluctant to talk about the charge. But once he starts, he goes on at length.I kind of think it will be remembered.
"It can go away," Greene says. "Just think about a charge. It can be dropped by the solicitor. It can be dropped and erased like it never happened. . . .
"Folks should be given a chance to correct themselves. Somebody could just be trying to get somebody in trouble. You see, somebody, you know -- you just can't work around somebody. It's hard. I'm just trying to talk about something, frankly. I'm just trying to talk from my perspective. People should be friendly. I mean, leave it alone."
Posts
178 comments:
The news report says he has not entered a plea or been indicted in connection with the obscenity charge. Greene asks: "I have not been indicted? Indicted? What does that mean?" His brother explains that a charge and an indictment are different things. He nods.
"Hope! CHANGE!" ;)
Translation: The Democratic Party picked a Candidate to throw its weight behind that was so horrible that some no-name beat him. But it's not our fault.
wv: liedown, as in lie down with pigs and you smell like manure.
Here's the first commenter at Balloon Juice, stuckinred: Quacks like a duck don’t it?
Why is Greene's arrest report not on thesmokinggun website?
I blame Bush
No one eats their own better than the left.
"...a relatively inarticulate nobody..."
Was he speaking of the President without the aid of his teleprompter?
The real question is: how does his negro dialect hold up?
Well said Madison Man.
I'll say if there is an investigation, it should be whether voter fraud was involved if not, even if he's some kind of GOP plant, that makes the Democrats look even worse.
'Hey look, we put up a no name screwball who can barely string three words together with no campaigning and you still got your ass kicked'
Yeah that's a winner.
"...a relatively inarticulate nobody..."
is cleanliness not a factor in SC?
Now that's a storybook man!
What are the democrats complaining about? He is the perfect embodiment of the new democrat, stupid, ignorant, inarticulate, lazy and thuggish. Greene is their perfect candidate, he truly represents them.
Isn't democracy wonderful!
I'll bet Alvin Greene knows how many letters are in the word JOBS.
I can't quite dismiss the conspiracy theory, just because that is actually less fracking weird than the non-conspiracy explanation. Honestly, I almost want the conspiracy theory to be true, because I actually find the notion of a devious, corrupt Machiavellian plot more comforting than a completely bats*** crazy null hypothesis.
This is a big fucking deal.
Ok, I haven't really followed this story much at all, so I finally got off my ass and read about it. I'm with Independent George on this one.
I'll wait for more info. Maybe he was planted by Will Folks.
First, I had to look-up the definition of "ratfuck."
Then I had to look-up the meaning of "balloon juice."
That's all.
"The people picked their candidate, ..."
The people are stupid. That's why the founders set up a republic rather than a democracy. And, to the extent that the republic has eroded into a democracy, we are the worse off for it.
One thing that the Founding Fathers forgot to do was put something in place in case a fucking idiot is elected.
Interesting that in today's political climate, electing/hiring someone that is too stupid to figure out how to lie everytime he is asked a question seems so refreshing. He can be a counter balance to Fiorina's perfectly planned personality and agenda by being himself and wanting to do the right thing in washington like Jimmy Stewart's Mr Smith.
OWN it, Dems!
Althouse has the bigger point; this guy managed to get 60% of the vote. The particulars don't really matter when you look at that fact.
Voters in the Democrat primary went to the polls and voted for a guy that they knew absolutely nothing about!
Until the day after the election, Alvin Greene was a complete cipher, an unknown.
I really don't think that the Republicans pulled this off as a ratfuck; they're not that clever. But, let's assume for the sake of argument that this was a Republican black op to screw the Democrat ticket for Senate.
So what? 60% of the Democrat electorate still voted for this guy!
Why?
We need a "ratfuck" tag. ;)
Don't forget, this is the same state where they elected Jake "Raghead" Knotts. I'd say Greene is a step up.
He's tweeting now: @GoGreene2010
wv: delifath
Two thoughts:
First, it's fascinating how the Left loves the will of the people and democracy and freedom and liberty until something like this comes along (and things like this seem to be coming along a lot more often for them) and now they want to rescind the republic.
The other is simply that, compared to this guy and a lot of the other slugs in Pelosi's Swamp (sounds like a kid's show), Fiorina and Whitman and Paul and, yes, Miss Sarah look real good.
YA BETCHA!!!!
Pelosi's Swamp (sounds like a kid's show)
What makes you think it isn't...? ;)
We could start a scholarship fund for Green and name it the Alpha Liberal Memorial Scholarship. There is Democrat Talent in America folks. I remember that "Pants on the Ground" song that spoke so well to Democrats and Republicans in South Carolina. How can we donate to Green?
Were all of his opponents white?
This reminds me of the time back in '86 with the Dems in Illinois had their candidates beaten in the primary by a couple of LaRouchies. They thought people would understand that they were supposed to vote for Aurelia Pucinski and George Sangmeister instead of the LaRouchies, who were named Janice Hart and Mark Fairchild. The entire Dem ticket went down to defeat that year. It was hilarious
"Voters in the Democrat primary went to the polls and voted for a guy that they knew absolutely nothing about!"
There's only one response to that observation: HEH!
I thought democrats liked pornography.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
He can be a counter balance to Fiorina's perfectly planned personality and agenda by being himself and wanting to do the right thing in washington like Jimmy Stewart's Mr Smith.
I just had this sudden mental image of a vacantly grinning Jimmy Stewart, badgering a young woman into checking out the porn on his computer screen.
I have to go lie down, now. ;)
"We have to elect the guy so that you can find out what is in him." -- Nancy Pelosi
And this guy is worse than Barney Frank, how?
He was obviously a plant, Althouse. A similar Democratic candidate was put forth in two other Congressional primaries, including Clyburn's.
I am disappointed that you don't see this; or, if you do, that you don't come out and say that you see it.
Someone, probably in S.C., decided that instead of spending their time unproductively trolling political blogs like this one, they would up the ante and troll an entire election.
Fucking genius! How admirably manipulative and deceptive!
I am in awe.
The hubris is astounding. Basically Clyburn is saying "OMG! Our establishment candidate didn't win! We must engage the full force of the government-- including its monopoly on violence-- to make sure that only we in the establishment can manipulate elections in the future."
Expect the establishment Republicans to get behind Clyburn eventually. They need to retain the exclusive power to manipulate elections just as much as the establishment Democrats do.
But the Republicans are smarter so they will wait a little until they make their move to assert their corrupt control.
"We have to elect the guy so that you can find out what is in him." -- Nancy Pelosi
"I'll take 'Barney Frank's Re-Election Campaign Slogan' for $500, Alex!" ;)
This guy Greene is a real beaut. I'll have to remember him next time some Lib dingleberry starts telling me how much smarter the Left is than the Right.
"How can we donate to Green?"
Careful, tradguy. The Limbaugh gambit must be used with care. Even Rush hasn't mastered it. It could be what got us where we are now.
Makes me wonder but I'm not sure what to wonder about.
Are the voters that uninformed?
Is MadisonMan right?
Just how bad is the preferred Demo candidate?
Film at 11:00.
AllenS said...
One thing that the Founding Fathers forgot to do was put something in place in case a fucking idiot is elected."
Well he was president for 8 years...cut him some slack...he't gone now anyway...let Texas deal with him.
Who planted the plant, Julius? What was so attractive about the plant that the Democratic voters thought he would make a better candidate then the well-known other guy?
The conspiracy claim is ridiculous. How the hell could Repubs know that the Democrats would be stupid enough to overwhelmingly (60% of them) choose such a blithering idiot.
Hmmmm, now that I think about it maybe it's obvious how stupid the Democrats are down in SC. Downgrading my judgment from "ridiculous" to "unlikely".
How's the new guy workin out, Mr. House?
Will Althouse expand her commenting rules such that using ";)" will result in a deleted comment? Or, could there be some sort of three strikes (per thread) and you're out rule for repeat offenders.
What was so attractive about the plant that the Democratic voters thought he would make a better candidate then the well-known other guy?
duh-duh-duh...
He's BLACK!
And he's got a BLACK NAME!
Running against Vic Rawl-- a WHITE GUY with a WHITE GUY NAME.
Given that DeMint's primary candidate was an ex-Democratic activist, it looks like there was plenty of ratfucking going on in this primary season in South Carolina. Strikes me as pretty much a wash.
But yeah, almost certainly Greene was financed by some partisan having a lark. Might even have been a Democratic enemy of Rawls looking to make a fool of him.
And I also stand with Independent George in fearing the non-conspiratorial hypothesis.
I just had this sudden mental image of a vacantly grinning Jimmy Stewart, badgering a young woman into checking out the porn on his computer screen.
Wasn't that essentially the plot of Vertigo?
So then he's not a plant, he won only because he was black. Is that right, Julius? He got the votes of black voters which outnumbered white voters. Right?
@AllenS-
No, he's a plant and he won only because he was black.
He was planted well. A nice Greene Plant.
Look at the whole check issue if you are not convinced he is a plant. Sure, if Greene keeps his mouth shut, nobody will prove he is a plant... but c'mon, you are completely underestimating what a manipulative deceptive cynic can do when he or she applies himself.
So whoever has the blackest name wins the SC Democratic primary? I guess that means that Tyrone Washington and LeSean Jones are going to have a hell of a close race in 2012.
If the definition of "plant" is someone who takes money, runs in a primary and wins his Party nomination, then every single politician in DC is a "plant".
Democrats are desperate to avoid acknowledging that they have, once again, advanced a man that they know absolutely nothing about. Hopefully, the nation as a whole is starting to catch on to what kind of people we're dealing with here.
This is so exciting! Never before have I been so inspired by an American political event. And it only cost the mastermind about $10K... to fuck up an entire Senate race, get national attention, and even potentially get a Congressional investigation rolling.
Just think... by November, races could be fucked up all over the country! We could have the entire establishment in a tizzy!
Today, for the first time in a long long time, I am proud to be an American!
The people are stupid. That's why the founders set up a republic rather than a democracy. And, to the extent that the republic has eroded into a democracy, we are the worse off for it.
I'm not so sure.
The founders put systemic "baffles" in to dampen and slow the wild swings in passion, fad, and fashion to which the public was often subject. (Like Obama-mania, for example, whose early intemperance has yet to be reviewed by the SCOTUS.)
But this government was never designed to blunt the consistent and long-term stupidity of the public.
I don't see a problem. He was in the military for 13 years and hasn't had a job for about a year.
Why shouldn't be a rep for S. Carolina?
Armstrong and Getty are pretty sure it's a Republican doing; and SC has an open primary, according to a caller, which means that Repubilcans can vote for him.
How the plan stayed quiet is the major difficulty, if R's are out voting for Greene.
It's illegal to pay his $10k entry fee for him, which apparently would have been done to pull it off.
The look-at-this porn line doesn't seem like a winner in picking up girls, but what do I know.
All this proves is that 60% of the democrat voting public in S.C. are retarded because they voted in the primary for one of their own. Another retard.
The Democrat Party. Retards Welcome.
BTW, the notion in Liberaland is that Greene won because of South Carolina's open primaries.
It's time to remember Roland Burris and the initial hearty derision that met his
purchase..er.. ah.. appointment by Blago to the Senate. At first there was all sorts of Dem noise about not admitting him etc. A few race cards later, Harry Reid has arms around his shoulders and his tongue down his throat and Rolands' one of the club. Just wait for the DNC to rehabilitate Greene and buff his image like they did Burris,cowing all opposition to him as racist.
A&G said Green had an IQ of about 70, and was ejected honorably from the army because things weren't working out; so he'd been unemployed for a year. Not likely to spend $10k of his own entering the Dem primary race.
The only non-humorous aspect is that some of it is illegal, so dudgeon can get raised into news-level bites.
HDHouse said...
Well he was president for 8 years...cut him some slack...he't gone now anyway...let Texas deal with him.
How long have you been this deranged? I suspect that it's been decades now. What did it? I'd really like to know what in this life fucked your head so bad that you've done nothing but spew obsessive compulsive leftard gibberish all this time.
Maybe Democratic ballots should be printed with the proper candidate already selected to avoid this kind of thing.
i think the most likely explanation for the vote is that the SC dems decided they liked "none of the above" and he was the closest to voting for that.
But what does it matter. When certain liberals get it in their head they are being victimized by evil republicans, facts and logic have little to do with it. So Max Cleland's face supposedly "morphed" into bin Laden's face in a campaign ad. never mind that that didn't happen, and the add was asking a fair question--who was better on national security. So Baloon juice said helen thomas was rail roaded because she was nice to some jews before she decleared that all the jews should be forced out of "palestine." so the blond bimbo in the anti-ford ad was a play on fears of interacial sex, you know, because there are alot of racists who are willing to have a black man represent them as long as he doesn't touch white women. logic, facts, etc. doesn't matter to a certain breed of liberal when they decide they have been the victim of some evil republican trick.
The most depressing thing, btw, is how quickly they assign not just the worst motives to republicans, but the weirdest. so sullivan imagines that sarah palin is not the mother of her youngest son because he thinks that palin in an elaborate attempt to cover up bristol's pregnancy. his entire theory depends on the desire to cover up something that just isn't much of a scandal.
sigh.
A&G said Green had an IQ of about 70, and was ejected honorably from the army because things weren't working out; so he'd been unemployed for a year.
A resume that only lacks the requisite "community organizer" experience for sufficient gravitas in today's Democratic Party.
Btw as i said in the previous thread, i would take these calls to investigate more seriously, if the dems were interested in 1) prosecuting blatant voter intimidation, and 2) investigating and prosecuting Acorn's voter fraud.
Otherwise, its just politics masquerading as law.`
Dead Julius admits that Dem voters are inherently racist. Nice!
Though there was a friend of a friend long ago, who was reported to use the pickup line "Wanna fuck?"
His reasoning was it saves a lot of time and so you can use it a lot, and pick up the far left tail of the female population.
Who cares who gave him the money. He won the primary. He said it was his money. Clyburn wants an investigation. Into what? Can he get a court order to look into anyone's bank account? For what reason?
He was obviously a plant, Althouse.
Julius heads down the rathole. And Julius I have to admire you for at least admitting to the obvious conclusion that underpins the conspiracy theory: that SC Democratic voters are driven by racial bias and impaired by what ...stupidity. Because one can only conclude that given the guy did little campaigning and now with an interview in a very sympathetic venue (Countdown) one can only watch and say OMG!!!
But that's your story and you're sticking to it.
Of course Rep Clyburn could drop the conspiracy conviction and refer back to one of our founding fathers opinions on such matters:
All communities divide themselves into the few and the many. The first are the rich and the well-born; the other the mass of the people ... turbulent and changing, they seldom judge or determine right. Give therefore to the first class a distinct, permanent share in the Government ... Nothing but a permanent body can check the imprudence of democracy.
Alexander Hamilton
But my hunch is that doesn't sit well with party platforms.
So yes if the Illinois Republican Party, with its eyes wide open can nominate Alan Keyes to run against a certain state senator from the southside and put up with the eternal ridicule of those on the left then yes you must OWN Mr. Greene.
And if he stands till November and gets more than 27% of the vote (the amount Keyes got) you must answer for those votes too
If you voted for obama...I see NO reason not to support this dude...give me one way he differs other than his harvard degree...I dare you
In 2002 the winner of the GOP nomination for Missouri State Auditor was a convicted felon. From a news story:
"Hanson, 72, thumped the favored candidate of the state Republican establishment, St. Louis lawyer Jay Kanzler, by nearly a 2-1 ratio, winning every county despite spending less than $1,000 on the race. Kanzler had a war chest of $115,000.
"During a brief Wednesday phone call, Hanson thanked his network of volunteers around the state for putting him over the top.
"The more likely reasons were ballot position and voter ignorance, many observers said."
The winner that November was Claire McCaskill.
I agree with MadMan and Hoosier. Or, as one politician put it: "The People have spoken, damn them."
BTW, it would not surprise me in the slightest if Greene was encouraged to run in the senatorial primary by the Democrats themselves. Under the current election laws a contributor is limited to $2400 per election (emphasis mine) for a federal candidate -- so its not unusual to set up a straw opponent, assuring a primary election, allowing you to collect $4800 from your better-healed contributors.
Of course for this tactic to be successful you do have to win your primary.
South Carolina has an open primary, which is not unusual in a state dominated by a single party. You'll find open primaries in bright blue states as well. That way voters can cross over to vote for the weaker opposition candidate, helping to maintain the hegemony of the dominant party. If the South Carolina Democrat party wants to get rid of their open primaries, then they need to negotiate with the Republicans to do so.
Don't forget that the people of minnesota elected Jesse Ventura TWICE and then elected Al franken over the moderate incumbent senator. Maybe the other choices were all so bad, this guy was the best of the bunch. The Dem candidate can't beat DeMint anyway.
Minnesota has their own Republican version of Alvin Greene: Sharon Anderson, whose name is identical to a local television personality. She keeps getting scary numbers of votes on name recognition alone.
I think she is a DFL plant.
"But this government was never designed to blunt the consistent and long-term stupidity of the public."
Well, you can't fix stupid.
Does this mean the South Carolina Democrat party has abandoned the "voters vote alphabetically" explanation?
Will Obama make a campaign appearance with Greene?
Inquiring minds want to know.
What was wrong with the other guy (Greene's opponent)? I virtually always find I am stuck not voting for someone, but rather against someone else. I assume that happens a lot. So, what was wrong with his opponent?
I think the investigation goes into how an unemployed man came up with the $10,000 registration fee. I am employed at a very good job and couldn't produce $10,000 to run for office. If someone gave it to him to run, wouldn't it have to be a listed campaign contribution?
This is a guy who can't have very much money, saved $10,000 and then did nothing to campaign. And he won the election over a somewhat-known candidate. It doesn't make sense.
The only reason I don't fully subscribe to the conspiracy theory is because Republican voters had too much invested in their gubernatorial primary to go vote in the Democrat primary.
there is no real question that the democrats don't have a chance in SC even if General Lee decided to run. However, as noted earlier, SC has open primaries, and the justice department has been all over that state for years because in my local elections the open primary was used and that, along with "at large" voting generally permitted all kinds of strange happenings, not the least of which was what is being theorized about here...that cross over republicans did so in sufficient number to put this guy Greene on the ballot.
The people are stupid. That's why the founders set up a republic rather than a democracy. And, to the extent that the republic has eroded into a democracy, we are the worse off for it.
This.
@CS..voter "turnout" was higher this year than when the same seat came out in 2004 buy a significant number and democratic turnout was heavier with almost all the vote difference going toward Greene.
It seems odd to our party but I guess if you are a republican, crooked is straight and up is down.
If Rep. Clymer wants an investigation, he should get his own party [the Dems] to do it and the Dems should pay for the cost of the investigation too.
ROFLMAO
Dead J - Liberaland is having a cow. How dare one of the commoners they claim to champion win a Democratic primary.
The name recognition bit reminds me of John J. Duncan, Sr and John J. Duncan, Jr. Congressmen from Tennessee. Senior had been elected 12 times and died in office. In a special election Junior won the office. As I remember, in exit polls, an amazing number of people hadn't realized Senior had died and thought they were voting for Senior.
Clymer's investigation is an attempt to take the heat of a WH that clearly violated the law in their quest to get two unwanted Dems out of their respective races.
HD House: are there no alternative explanations for higher voter turnout? Or is it your position that voter turnout should be the same year after year?
An alternative hypothesis could be that there are some very unhappy voters out there--in both parties--that are upset with the status quo I dont know if we will see any exit polling, but if there is, it will be interesting.
HDHouse - didn't we have much heavier turnouts in the presidential primaries in S.C. in 2008 than 2004? Almost double, actually.
And, who got those votes? Could it have been Barack Obama? Yes, dear, good job.
I love how you make up whatever pack of lies suits you at the moment.
I heard there was a conspiracy to put up a candidate in 2008. See there was a woman who was a very plausible candidate for the office, so the republicans set up a man to run against her who was ludicrously unqualified for the job. I mean he himself told people he was not qualified for the job. But amazingly they tricked just enough democrats to give him the nomination. And the republicans thought that they had it made in the general election.
Only here's the scary part. he won and is now the president of the united states.
For the conspiracy theory to make any sense, Green's opponent would have had to have had a chance against DeMint. Did he? If not, the conspiracy theory is crap.
the notion in Liberaland is that Greene won because of South Carolina's open primaries.
BWAAHAHAHA!!
And the libs just voted for open primary in California. Hope it comes back to bite them in the ass.
"HD House: are there no alternative explanations for higher voter turnout? Or is it your position that voter turnout should be the same year after year?"
The reason for the overall high turnout was the bitter Republican governor's primary. (Allegations of infidelity etc.) That's were all the press attention was and until now, is. The idea that 100,00 plus R's decided to skip the
governor's race to foul the D Senate campaign is not plausible.
HDHouse said...
AllenS said...
One thing that the Founding Fathers forgot to do was put something in place in case a fucking idiot is elected."
Well he was president for 8 years...cut him some slack...he't gone now anyway...let Texas deal with him.
WRONG!!
That's who's there now - at least when he isn't being a traitor to this country.
DBQ
they voted for more than an open primary. they did away with all party elements. so basically the system works like this. you run the primary. all people, regardless of party affiliation, run against each other. the top vote two vote getters then move on to the general election. So in theory you might get two democrats facing off against each other in the general election.
I see nothing wrong with open primaries--I mean if the president's men can buy off candidates in elections by offering sinecures, no reason the people should be prohibited from fucking with elections either. Liberals do seem to have a problem with that. They embrace the former and condemn the latter.
Lars--phooey. was trying to make HD House come up with answer.
Washington State went thru this drill a while back--open primaries etc. The entrenched parties (both Ds and Rs squashed them for one assumes their party interests. I believe Lousiana still has the scramble system in effect--
my thought is that the states can do what they want--thats the burden of federalism. And the joy of federalism as well.
For the conspiracy theory to make any sense, Green's opponent would have had to have had a chance against DeMint.
No!
First of all, it might not have been a Republican plant. Perhaps a group of porn-peddling pot-smoking libertarian SEOs got together on the members-only #26 of GoFuckYourself.com and decided to do something to embarrass the whole political establishment for shits and giggles-- and perhaps to expose the Democratic "base" as the race-minded sheep that they are.
Even if it was a Republican job, maybe it was to create a stir so that less attention is paid to the failings of the candidate(s) for governor. Or just to take a hit at the Democratic party in general.
There are many wide-ranging benefits to this outcome; that's why the plan was so genius.
Rialby has figured out Greene's angle. Now he will get a great Federal job offered to him by Emanuel for withdrawing.Then he can stack his pensions from the Army and the Federal Bureau of ( fill in blank) and retire at 40. Who says IQ tests measure the true instinctive talent of a man named Greene.
It seems to me that in just the last 5 or 10 years, Liberals have gone from a relatively mild aversion to the truth to a full blown hatred of it. Kinda fun to watch them melt down over stories like this.
Wow, brain-dead julius is already talking as though it is proven the plot even existed.
And tell me who were behind it? the Templars? The masons? The saucer people?
Was it the same people who are really behind 9-11 and the JFK assassination? Tell us, spew that conspiracy idiocy for us, monkey boy.
I am against open primaries. If you want to vote in a party's primary, you should be required to register with that party. Open primaries are a scheme devised by buttinsky liberals I bet.
Oh, I hear that singer cum preacher boy Al Green is pretty big in South Carolina too.
AJ: that is certainly one argument; but there are some countervailing arguments as well.
1) there is nothing in the constitution about a two party system--one person one vote is still the desiderata, and 2) in some states, one party is so strong (eg king county in WA state) that if you dont have a say in the primary you damn sure wont get one in the general.
I am not sure what the right answer is, other than let the people of the individual state determine their own rules.
wow.
who is in charge at the DNC ? granted that its unlikely that a dem could win a senate seat in SC and so perhaps this race wasnt under the radar -- but this is an embarrassment !
the primary was open -- but given that no one has heard of this guy, how likely is it that republicans tipped the balance ..... unless of course they just went and voted against the guy they had heard of ...
I'm absolutely in favor of open primaries. Nowhere in the constitution does it say anything about the Democrat or Republican parties. Yet they've coopted the entire system.
If a party wants to pick a candidate without a primary, fine. But if they put it to a vote of the people, all the people get to vote.
And BTW, its not the case that 'plants' have no precedent.
remember when Alan Keyes moved to Illinois just in time to run against Obama for Senate ? I wouldnt be surprised if there is something similarly fishy going on here.
we shall see !
Danielle-interesting that your default position is to look to the DNC, a National entity, rather than the Democratic Party of south carolinayou do understand that states are sovereign in these matters.
"Perhaps a group of porn-peddling pot-smoking libertarian SEOs got together on the members-only #26 of GoFuckYourself.com and decided to do something to embarrass the whole political establishment for shits and giggles"
Like they need help? They do a pretty good job of that on their own.
Looking here, you can see over 410,000 voted in the Republican primary in South Carolina and only 169,542 Democrats.
If Republicans crossed over it wasn't very many or South Carolina is virtually devoid of Democrats. Bu, 532,000 Democrats voted in the 2080 presidential primary. So a shortage of Democrats isn't the answer. Come on, House, we need more lies to explain this.
I'd love to see a vote breakdown by race.
One thing that the Founding Fathers forgot to do was put something in place in case a fucking idiot is elected.
Dick Cheney. So that's why we have a Vice President. A job never fully utilized for two centuries, but when you need it, by cracky, it's there.
Running against Vic Rawl-- a WHITE GUY with a WHITE GUY NAME.
how soon they forget... Lou Rawls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcwYEGdKto8
You'll never find
Another love like mine
FLS--Dick Cheney is so yesterday--the real answer is the founders established impeachment as the answer--its in all the constitutions. Has nothing to do with the vice president who may be the beneficiary of impeachment. And I am pretty much to the point that I would take Joe Biden over the incumbent--at least biden is worth some laughs.
Roger -- impeachment is for crooks. Crooks have to have smarts. I think idiots can skate by.
FLS: LOL--unfortunately, you are probably right.
Roger:
Thanks Roger- the law does seem to violate the assembly rights of groups. IOW, you can form your own group or party but can't decide who can vote in your group?
And I just thought of this question. Maybe you could answer it. The CA law effectively eliminates the spoiler potential of candidates like Nader?
AJ--can't answer the CA question as I know nothing about CA except I dont want to live there . I know that an underlying factor in WA state was for the two primary parties to eliminate the rise of third party candidates.
Danielle, I don't follow your point about Keyes:
He was a somehow Democratic plant in the Republican primary who happened to win the nomination? Or are you saying simply (and non-apropos of Greene) that it's disingenuous to move into a state solely to seek election there? Like, oh, I don't know...Hillary Clinton maybe?
I'm absolutely in favor of open primaries. Nowhere in the constitution does it say anything about the Democrat or Republican parties. Yet they've coopted the entire system.
I never got this either. It's really just an incumbent protection racket. It reeks to high heaven.
The only way I can think of to offer assistance to the esteemable House Majority Whip Clyburn, is to say that maybe in the Democratic primaries that black voters are only allowed 3/5 of a vote. He might then get the outcome he is looking for.
"Hello? Mr Greene? How are you? This is Bill...Bill Clinton......."
"the law does seem to violate the assembly rights of groups. IOW, you can form your own group or party but can't decide who can vote in your group? "
AJ, Your looking at it from the point of view of the parties, as if the public office belongs to them. It doesn't. It belongs to the people. How can you say only some of the people can vote?
I am not registered in either party. Nor do I want to be (I'd rather chew glass). Am I to be disenfranchised?
"It's really just an incumbent protection racket."
That's exactly what it is. I find closed primaries offensive. I don't understand why they're legal.
In fact, why can't we vote in both? Either a dem or a repub is going to win in our system. Why can't I vote for one of each in the primaries? That makes more sense to me.
Danielle
> remember when Alan Keyes moved to Illinois just in time to run against Obama for Senate ? I wouldnt be surprised if there is something similarly fishy going on here.
So you are saying that Obama conspired with Keyes to win in the Senate? Tell me this, was he also behind Jack Ryan’s meltdown when we all learned that his wife, super hot actress Jeri Ryan, accused him of asking her to go to swingers clubs with him during their divorce? Are the freemasons involved? How far does this go?
interesting that a limited sample of commenters on both sides of the political spectrum seem to favor open primaries--there is hope for our republic yet. The democrats and republicans have no claim to our preferences and the law should not favor them.
Danielle;
remember when Alan Keyes moved to Illinois just in time to run against Obama for Senate ? I
Mr. Keyes was very openly and publically drafted by the Illinois Republican Party when their de facto choice dropped out due to scandal. Unless you're suggesting there were Democratic moles within the Republican Party...
OOOOOOOO that would make a delicious movie about America's first black president actually a tool of the oil and gas industry who's sudden meteoric rise in politics is part of a grand plot by the oil industry to open up the underwater oil fields of the Gulf and Alaska......oh wait
Maybe its only certain oil companies wanted there major competition BP to falter....
or maybe its....
forget it, these conspiracy plots make my brain hurt.
So is Alvin Greene going to be the new Gore of 2010? Are DNC lawsuits going to ensue to count his vote chads to nullify his candidacy?
I love it.
An average schlub wins the primary in a complete fluke, and the Dems are already claiming it's a nefarious conspiracy.
I love this Greene guy, and I genuinely hope that he wins. I mean, I have long believed that Congress would be run just as effectively and efficiently if we picked people out of the phone book at random.
This is the closest I'll ever get to seeing if my belief is correct.
c3 said...
an interview in a very sympathetic venue (Countdown) one can only watch and say OMG!!!
Well, you succinctly summed up Countdown's viewership numbers.
Mike:
You are not disenfranchised. Start your own party if you don't like the party candidates.
I don't see why an organization should be required to let non-members vote.
What this law will do is eliminate primaries - the powers that be in each party will simply pick their preferred candidate and that is who they will run in the fall.
Or does the CA law require that you run in the primary? If not, this is what the voters of each party will get : no primary choice.
LarsPorsena said...
Will Obama make a campaign appearance with Greene?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Not really. He isn't mulatto enough for him.
garage mahal said...
It reeks to high heaven.
Yes, just like your antisemitism.
It reeks like the runny shit in your diaper.
I'm so confused about all this. I wish Jeremy would show up and explain it all in his calm rational way. Is this guy a plant by the Wing-nut teabaggers? Is he Sarah Palin's love child? Did Cheney and Bushitler order this up? What?
Mulligan?
What if you had a do-over and he won again? You Dems know it's possible. You know your constituency. It could happen.
So did the repubs put him up to run, pay him and then as a big joke, because unfortunately that's what politics has become to a lot of people in the south, really unfortunately, people voted for him?
And since it's coo for the repubs on here to say "I blame Bush," then I'll just say "I blame Obama."
"You are not disenfranchised. Start your own party if you don't like the party candidates."
Sounds nice, but is not practical.
I don't see why an organization should be required to let non-members vote.
We're not talking the Elk's here (and I'm not being flippant). This is about who governs us.
What this law will do is eliminate primaries - the powers that be in each party will simply pick their preferred candidate and that is who they will run in the fall.
That's fine with me. I think we'd have a better system. Witness the SC Dems, who are apparently too stupid to not select someone they knew nothing about.
It reeks like the runny shit in your diaper.
Speaking of running shits, garage, you still need to go back to this thread and answer the questions.
(oblig.:
""garage mahal said...
Palin's church can't be any weirder than Obama's, and if she is a Pat Buchanan Republican I feel safer. He is about the only sane Republican I've heard these past 8 years. An truthfully I thought Buchanan's joke about Washington D.C. being "Israeli occupied territory" years ago friggin hilarious, with some truth behind it. But, I'm in the minority of liberals who like Buchanan.
9/3/08 7:20 PM")
This open primary stuff could get very unpredictable as sides try strategies mixing various motivations for voting for either party. What if a majority of one party actually votes in the opponent they want and vice versa. Then we end up with everyones' two worst choices in the runnoff. Yippee!
Mike:
There is nothing in the Constitution that says "things must not be impractical for Mike" :)
Last point - the primary elections have one purpose and it is to select the party candidates.
The govt should bill the parties for the cost of holding primary elections.
"But this government was never designed to blunt the consistent and long-term stupidity of the public."
Actually, it was. That's why the people didn't get to vote for senators. Direct election of senators is an "improvement" thought up after the founders had moved on.
And attempts to abolish the Electoral College, already weakened by many states mandating their votes is a similar "improvement."
Speaking of running shits, garage, you still need to go back to this thread and answer the questions.
The only "running" shit is you stalking me on every thread asking me stupid fucking questions. You're like a tick I pulled off but the head is still burrowed in and I can't get it out. I conceded the point on Buchanan, let it fucking go and go spend some time with your family, that is if there is anyone left that will put up with your incessant nagging.
There is nothing in the Constitution that says "things must not be impractical for Mike" :)
Yeah, I know.
The govt should bill the parties for the cost of holding primary elections.
I suspect it's a lot more than that. The parties have built themselves all sorts of advantages. They want to hold closed primaries? Level the playing field for everybody else.
Being from Wisconsin, I take open primaries for granted. How many states are open? Is it the norm or the exception?
Alvin Greene - Why Do Democrats Hate Democracy?
More of that spellbinding, trademarked Alvin Greene oratorical magic... this time, re: Clyburn, "mole charges" and other fun topics!
The only "running" shit is you stalking me on every thread asking me stupid fucking questions. You're like a tick I pulled off but the head is still burrowed in and I can't get it out. I conceded the point on Buchanan, let it fucking go and go spend some time with your family, that is if there is anyone left that will put up with your incessant nagging.
I've only brought the questions up when you've addressed me in a thread, usually as part of your efforts to tar others with the hatreds you harbor.
If you want to be a cowardly little shit, running away from direct questions about why you express so many racist, misogynistic, anti-semitic, and dishonest statements, that's fine. I can't force you to answer those simple, direct questions. I also can't keep you from being a snide, libelous, hate-filled liar.
I can, however, keep reminding others that you're a cowardly little shit who runs away from direct questions about why he expresses so many racist, misogynistic, anti-semitic, and dishonest statements. And I can keep pointing out that you're a snide, libelous, hate-filled liar who repeatedly tries to project his own prejudices onto others.
And I can simply quote your own words to do so, which makes things really easy for me.
I don't see why an organization should be required to let non-members vote.
If they don't want us to vote in their elections, quit using our tax money for pay for the election costs.
You win AC. I confess to everything. I promise I'll never bring your name up again. Swear! I made it 4yrs here without being called a racist, but I'm finally outed. If I stay, it will be for therapeutic purposes only. The shame!
I even confess to the shit I have absolutely no fucking clue what you're talking about.
Blogger ID 212138321321321 in 2007? Guilty!
Blogger ID 03120321321 in 2009 with the same name "garage mahal"? Guilty!
It was all a clever ruse at that time you see, knowing there would be Cheetoh stain fingered basement dwelling retarded fucking morons like you with nothing better to do than spend countless hours googling past comments on people you don't even know.
Yep. I changed blogger ID profile numbers, [apparently] and kept the same screen name. Genius huh!
"He had no business being on campus, and had been warned to stay OFF campus..."
Some canny publisher out there really needs to come up with a "How To Meet and Pick Up Women, the ALVIN GREENE Way!"
garage -
Some friendly advice. Your brand is damaged like British Petroleum.
You might want to take some time off, come up with a different name/identity, and start over. Every time you pull out your invective against the wingnuts, everyone here is going to pull out your own words about your admiration for Patrick Buchanan.
Then again, MUL tried to reinvent himself a few times. That didn't work so well.
I'm starting to worry about AlphaLib. Did he suffer from heatstroke doing all that yardwork?
I mean, he was soooo concerned with South Carolina politics and allegations of immorality in the gubernatorial race, I thought for sure he'd be all over these allegations.
I changed blogger ID profile numbers, [apparently] and kept the same screen name. Genius huh
You mean I can be .....
ANYONE I WANT TO BE!!
(i love the internets)
"AC245 said...
I've only brought the questions up when you've addressed me in a thread, usually as part of your efforts to tar others with the hatreds you harbor.
If you want to be a cowardly little shit, running away from direct questions about why you express so many racist, misogynistic, anti-semitic, and dishonest statements, that's fine. I can't force you to answer those simple, direct questions. I also can't keep you from being a snide, libelous, hate-filled liar.
I can, however, keep reminding others that you're a cowardly little shit who runs away from direct questions about why he expresses so many racist, misogynistic, anti-semitic, and dishonest statements. And I can keep pointing out that you're a snide, libelous, hate-filled liar who repeatedly tries to project his own prejudices onto others."
Bissage?
Is that you?
Bissage?
Is that you?
Nope.
Doug Wright? Is that you?
You might want to take some time off, come up with a different name/identity, and start over.
On the contrary Miller. I'm more proud of my identity than I've ever been in my entire life. Bank it.
AC245 as Bissage? Sacrilege. I hope that was a joke.
Lots of people here seem to think that Greene has a room temperature IQ. He certainly doesn't come off as very articulate (But then neither is Obama, off the teleprompter.)
On the other hand, he does have a bachelors degree in Political science from the U of South Carolina. Not a PhD in phyics from MIT but it does show that he took 40 classes, did papers and assignments in them and passed. I don't think that is common without an IQ in the triple digits.
He spent 13 years in the AF/Army. That means he was allowed to re-enlist at least twice. Again, doesn't make him an Einstein but it does show that he is not stupid, either.
Yes, he was involuntarily discharged and it would be interesting to know why. But it was an honorable discharge so had bad can it be?
In short, you all should not be trashing him just for having the audacity to beat the annointed candidate like a red headed stepchild.
He might not be my first choice but he is certainly as qualified as most of the pols we see running and/or working today. More qualified than many.
If there was a way to send him some money, I'd kick in $10-20. My feeling is that any newbie, of any party, will be better than any incumbent of any party.
Go Alvin!
One other theory I heard floated today was that voters thought he was Al Green, the singer.
John Henry
You mean I can be .....
ANYONE I WANT TO BE!!
No! As near as I can ascertain, AC245 is asking if I've ever changed blogger ID numbers, but kept the same screen name? WTF. But all the "bad stuff" is under garage mahal. So, what exactly is the question you'll have to ask AC245.
Oh, I must be "trending" on google this hour from all the hits from Ac245. I can't even imagine.
Hey garage, I see that you are outperforming "pointy breasts" that brings all the hits to blake's blog.
Score.
@John Henry: I feel sorry for Greene. It's being suggested he's not smart enough to be a Senator. That's gotta hurt.
I bellied up at your place the other night, Trooper.
No! As near as I can ascertain, AC245 is asking if I've ever changed blogger ID numbers, but kept the same screen name? WTF. But all the "bad stuff" is under garage mahal. So, what exactly is the question you'll have to ask AC245.
I made the question very clear, garage. You've been trying to play dumb since I asked the question initially here:
"Are you the same commenter as the "Garage Mahal" in this thread from about 3.5 years ago (the earliest comment by that name that Google turned up)?"
You keep complaining that my question is too complex for you to understand, so I keep clarifying for you exactly what I am asking (Here. Here. Here.), after which you run like a cowardly little shit to a different thread and lie about what I asked, rather than simply providing an answer.
I feel sorry for Greene. It's being suggested he's not smart enough to be a Senator. That's gotta hurt.
I, for one, would be instinctively wary of informing any man with extensive military training that he actually wasn't as intelligent as (oh, say) Al Franken, or former Senator Joe Biden.
"Are you the same commenter as the "Garage Mahal" in this thread from about 3.5 years ago (the earliest comment by that name that Google turned up)?"
Yes asshole! Haven't I said that like 15 times? YES YES YES YES
Wouldn't you assume it was me first ? I don't get what the hell you're talking about! You're mad that Ann deleted a comment 3 1/2 years ago? [very rare, I can only remember twice where Ann deleted a comment, and one was pure b.s)
Is that it?
I mean I know Garage used to be chubby and stuff but jeeez enough already!
Besides it is the blogger lady who hates chubby people after all.
Yes asshole! Haven't I said that like 15 times? YES YES YES YES
No, you haven't said that. You are, once again, lying.
If you can find and point out anywhere that you answered my actual questions, I'll apologize.
garage mahal said...
It reeks like the runny shit in your diaper.
Once again Garage "Jew Fighter" Mahal bestows upon us his wit and wisdom of the artless come-back.
Listen lumpy, the day you think you are better, faster, stronger, or smarter than me is the day I extend myself just more enough to beat you again. You are a lying anti-semite that paints conservatives on this blog with a racist brush with nary an iota of proof to back it up. All the while your words and words alone have hung you out to dry as the conniving racist you secretly harbor and shelter until you've been exposed and now you flail like the internet monkey that you are trying to do anything to shake this bigger monkey off your sagging back fat.
You and your ilk are nothing more than street waste. Your ideology and your thinking processes are rooted in the hovel of evil. You manifest ideas that are not only dangerous, but are born of an irrational mind. While you and your putrid ideological bed mates call conservatives wing nuts, you prove that you and your sham of an ideology are the equivalent of a dead-bolt. Locked in a mindset of undiscovered anger and hatred against things that are right, common sense, and good. You are the worst that America has produced. A dead-bolt in thought, hard and locked, and a dead-bolt in mind, snapped shut.
I am here to tell you that your ideology is but a smear against the open-ended grandiosity of conservatism. That it pales in any innumerable comparisons to it. You can't even fathom it's limitless potential because you are rooted in a muck-raked, poisonous lie that has blackened your mind. You and your ilk will not prevail. You will be defeated at ever turn. I will help in that endeavor. I will see you, your putrid ilk, and your rancid ideology, beaten, broken, and not worthy of a single neuron of thought. This is my commitment to seeing you and your kind fail utterly and miserably.
I want you to leave my country. I want to see you leave. You aren't welcome here. You don't deserve the citizenship that is your birthright. You shit on it, you spit on it, you piss on it. Begone, never to be seen again. Go somewhere where your can be accepted with open arms and leave this country to men and women who will make it great again, because of human filth like you, you are dragging it down into the obscurity of equality, not exceptionality. Leave, never to return, you festering pustule of a misbegotten piece of offal. Liar and racist. A base and banal entity. Dead-bolt.
danielle,
That is true about Alan Keyes just as it is for Hillary Clinton running as senator from New York. She didn't even know the names of the cities in upstate New York at all and spent almost all of her time campaigning and fund raising in NYC. Unfortunately she won.
Methadras
So what are you doing Saturday?
garage mahal said...
Methadras
So what are you doing Saturday?
Nothing. I've already put in my 60 hours this week and I'm just going to kick back in some sunshine, nap a little, have a good Honduran cigar, do a little food shopping, watch a little TV. Talk to the wife now and then and generally relax.
Trooper York said...
I mean I know Garage used to be chubby and stuff but jeeez enough already!
Besides it is the blogger lady who hates chubby people after all.
Come on. Confess. Who is the blogger lady?
garage is a good guy even though I don't agree with him on much.
Besides he already "confessed to everything."
I just hung an Air-Chair-Hammock on my back patio and test drove it with 3 Shiner Bocks. I recommend it to everyone.
I'm still laughing.
Dems trying to deny the black man the rewards of his election victory.
Priceless!
So what are you doing Saturday?
Made me laugh.
Methadras answer surprised me more! Btw Methadras your picture cracks me everytime I see it! It's a happy baby but he is smart enough to know and is outraged he's gonna get the bill for all this govt spending. But I could be wrong heh.
No, he's a plant and he won only because he was black.
MLK is spinning so fast he's giving off gamma rays right now.
latest on Greene: it might be a voting machine error!
"it might be a voting machine error!"
Anything is possible, but it seems every time democrats don't like an election outcome, the voting equipment must be defective or worse.
Looks like this guy will get himself a nice cushy Washington job when he agrees to back out. Not so dumb after all, eh.He was just watching the news about Sestak and figured two could play at that game.
"latest on Greene: it might be a voting machine error!"
If you read the article, the evidence is pretty skimpy. It's a statistical argument, and not a compelling one. It apparently depends on a lot of machines all over the state screwing up.
I'm getting sick and tired of listening to Democrats claim voting error. They are a one trick pony. Having said that, I think it's "criminal" to use machines with no audit trail.
"latest on Greene: it might be a voting machine error!"
I hate it when those voting machines malfunction and outvote zombies and felons.
I'm getting sick and tired of listening to Democrats claim voting error. They are a one trick pony.
The Dems have two tricks. The other is claiming someone is racist. In this case, it looks like them.
Good point.
AJ Lynch said...
Methadras answer surprised me more! Btw Methadras your picture cracks me everytime I see it! It's a happy baby but he is smart enough to know and is outraged he's gonna get the bill for all this govt spending. But I could be wrong heh.
The first time I saw my avatar, Angry Baby, I laughed for nearly a half an hour at it. It was funny as hell. I used to have Bat Boy as my avatar on here for a long time, but people would tell me that it freaked them out so I changed it to Angry Baby. I love that baby and I've tried to find out the history on him and that pic, but I have found nothing. It's basically internet lore and obscurity at this point. Government encroachment into our daily lives that costs us big, unimaginable amounts of money? Yeah, that would even make a baby angry. :D
If there was some hidden meaning to Garage asking me what I was doing on Saturday, then I missed it. He asked. I answered.
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