Althouse: Do we have to talk about Alvin Greene?

June 10, 2010

Do we have to talk about Alvin Greene?

You know if this had happened to the GOP, liberals would have a feloniously obscene orgy of mockery.

156 comments:

Anonymous said...: South Carolina..too small to be a republic, too large to be an insane asylum.; 6/10/10, 10:10 AM
GMay said...: Or we'd have Alpha Lib barging in here talking about wanting to eat popcorn over bullshit allegations of marital infidelity while bragging about how non-judgmental he is.; 6/10/10, 10:13 AM
RuyDiaz said...: Alvin Greene: I think he's mentally ill. Should probably use some help. (In jail, if that's his destination.); 6/10/10, 10:16 AM
AllenS said...: What does this say about SC Democrats? Not very smart or well informed, I guess.; 6/10/10, 10:19 AM
Daniel12 said...: I HATE this kind of argument:

You know if [insert bad thing] had happened to the [insert political party], [insert ideological opposition people] would have a feloniously obscene orgy of mockery.

I'm sorry, but are we suffering from some sort of lack of mockery orgies in this country? Or on the blogosphere? Sweet googly moogly, the WHOLE INTERNET, not to mention 24 hour news, seems to be literally designed to produce feloniously obscene orgies of mockery. EVERYONE does it.

Imagine what the press would say if a conservative did that! They'd go nuts!

Imagine what the press would say if a liberal did that! They'd go nuts!

That's what they do. That's what we do. WE GO NUTS. ALL THE TIME.

Don't imagine. Just look. Jeez. Ok, rant over. I need a vacation.; 6/10/10, 10:20 AM
MadisonMan said...: Sounds like he'll fit right in in the Senate. And there he won't have to worry about pesky laws because I'm sure the Senate and House waived their responsibility to follow them.; 6/10/10, 10:20 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: What does this say about the quality of his primary opponent's Opposition Research? It looks like Senator Demint's campaign had the goods lined up for both of the Dem candidates,; 6/10/10, 10:22 AM
traditionalguy said...: This is the Democrat's candidate for the Senate. His job will be to RE-DISTRIBUTE everything and send the skim of the looted money through his accomplices and back to himself. So it should be expected that he also Re-distributes healthy sex with single women the same way. Are we suddenly becoming moralising Christianists here? (also see, Ben Roethlisberger and his rising college sophmore).Real life is stranger than fiction.; 6/10/10, 10:23 AM
bagoh20 said...: If he's clean and articulate, he can do anything.; 6/10/10, 10:23 AM
kent said...: Sounds like he'll fit right in in the Senate.

Heck, if he's managed to log any sufficient amount of "community organizing" time whatsoever: we just might be looking at genuine, dyed-in-the-wool presidential timbre, baybeeee -- !!! ;); 6/10/10, 10:24 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: Yes, but is he an admitted sinner?; 6/10/10, 10:27 AM
Brian O'Connell said...: The offensive thing about this episode is that Greene's been charged with a felony. Said the "victim":

"He said, 'Let's go to your room now.' It was kind of scary. He's a pretty big boy. He could've overpowered me."

He's guilty of being crass and big. Give him 5 years.; 6/10/10, 10:27 AM
kjbe said...: LOL, Daniel. Thanks.; 6/10/10, 10:28 AM
Anonymous said...: "...He's a pretty big boy..."

Who you calling boy? This woman is obviously a racist.; 6/10/10, 10:33 AM
Unknown said...: This seems to be happening a lot to the Demos recently. I thought Pelosi Galore was going to drain the fetid swamp, destroy the culture of corruption, leap tall buildings at a single bound...

(Sorry, I was rolling...); 6/10/10, 10:36 AM
Michael said...: Seems a perfectly qualified Senate candidate from the Democratic Party.; 6/10/10, 10:40 AM
RuyDiaz said...: "He's guilty of being crass and big. Give him 5 years."

He went to a University computer lab, and showed pornography to a woman he didn't know, while asking for casual sex. She had every right in the world to be scared.; 6/10/10, 10:41 AM
The Drill SGT said...: The whole thing is a GOP dirty trick. Note the give away use of the term "boy" by the so called victim?

alternately, it must have been a very obscene photo.

These days, I thought that every liberated Women's Center, when they aren't promoting those sex consent forms, brought those "sex shows" with the transvestite hookers to campus to demonstrate techniques for anal sex.; 6/10/10, 10:41 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: Around here, "pretty big boy" could just as easily refer to a white guy as a black guy. The bigger the guy is, the more likely "boy" is to be used. It's a "Little John" type of thing.; 6/10/10, 10:43 AM
kent said...: Fired Up! Ready to Go!… Dem & Accused Felon Vows to Stay in SC Senate Race

Couldn't happen to a sweeter, more deserving political party. Seriously. I mean that. ;); 6/10/10, 10:44 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: .. a feloniously obscene orgy of mockery.

I'm having a feloniously obscene orgy of literary envy ;); 6/10/10, 10:44 AM
TWM said...: I'm just curious . . . since when did it become illegal to send "normal" (as opposed to child porn) pornograpy over the internet? You can't swing a oil-soaked bird without hitting a porn site online; 6/10/10, 10:48 AM
X said...: He's not the establishment candidate, so he must be destroyed.; 6/10/10, 10:54 AM
traditionalguy said...: The Illinois/Chicago Gang must be sick to learn that Greene could be getting a Senate seat without paying millions of dollars to the Gang. What a waste of a marketable commodity.; 6/10/10, 10:54 AM
kent said...: since when did it become illegal to send "normal" (as opposed to child porn) pornograpy over the internet?

To a woman one doesn't even know? While attempting to solicit sex from them? Can I have your mom's e-mail address for just a minute?; 6/10/10, 10:56 AM
chuck b. said...: "not the establishment candidate" is putting it lightly, and I think you all know that.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/08/alvin-greene-upsets-vic-r_n_605365.html; 6/10/10, 11:00 AM
TWM said...: "To a woman one doesn't even know? While attempting to solicit sex from them? Can I have your mom's e-mail address for just a minute?"

Cute, how old are you, 10? I wasn't saying it was okay to send it to anyone, I was asking why it was illegal. Something you did not answer, no doubt because you don't know. Sure it's creepy times infinity, but what exactly is the crime.; 6/10/10, 11:03 AM
X said...: You know if this had happened to the GOP, liberals would have a feloniously obscene orgy of mockery.

If he was the Dem establishment's preferred nominee, Joshua Micah Ezekial Marshall's DemocratTalkingPointsMemo wouldn't even mention it, but yes, if it was a Repub he would have been snarkier and Mr. Greene would have been representative of Repubs in general.; 6/10/10, 11:06 AM
Alex said...: Notice not a single leftie troll has weighed in yet!; 6/10/10, 11:07 AM
kent said...: Cute, how old are you, 10?

Inept dodge, by way of wildly overheated ad hominem, duly noted. Sudden Tantrum Syndrome doesn't impress me any longer, as my daughter has long since outgrown her own Terrible Twos.

Sure it's creepy times infinity

My Point, skippy. And, next time: try the decaffe, m'kay...?; 6/10/10, 11:11 AM
LouisAntoine said...: Can we get a list of what outlets/publications/blogs? have to weigh in on something before it can be declared that "liberals" are saying something? Or do you go door to door at the houses of suspected liberals, and eavesdrop on whether they are having orgies or whatnot?; 6/10/10, 11:11 AM
Anonymous said...: If this argument were being made about a Republican I bet Daniel wouldn't be posting about how much he hates this kind of argument.; 6/10/10, 11:12 AM
LouisAntoine said...: Also, the irony of the link in this post coming from a liberal blog is delicious.; 6/10/10, 11:14 AM
Unknown said...: The racism of the Dems knows no bounds. Their 2 African-American Senate candidates they are throwing right under the bus, along with sitting Senator Roland Burris. Unreal that blacks still vote for the Party of Jefferson Davis and Bull Connor.

His main problem was he didnt take her for a 2 AM car ride and have an accident. If he did, he'd be Democratic Presidential material; 6/10/10, 11:17 AM
AllenS said...: Josh Marshall from TPM:
It seems like some yet-to-be-revealed outside group may have dropped some independent expenditure money in favor of mystery South Carolina senate candidate Alvin Greene in the last day or two of the campaign.

So what! If the name Bugs Bunny was put on the Democratic primary ballot, and the Democrats from SC voted for Bugs, it would prove the same thing. They are idiots!; 6/10/10, 11:18 AM
Paul Kirchner said...: Daniel said...I HATE this kind of argument: You know if [insert bad thing] had happened to the [insert political party], [insert ideological opposition people] would have a feloniously obscene orgy of mockery.

I agree that that argument is kind of tired and it's pointless anyway. Do people change their behavior because their hypocrisy is pointed out? People who define themselves by their politics are always going to attack the other side and stick up for their own, no matter what.

When the feminists were defending Bill Clinton it became clear to me that they don't actually care about sexual harassment or even credible accusations of rape, they care about supporting Democrats. Thus, we need to dismiss their feigned outrage at some Republican like Sen. Bob Packwood who was hounded out of office on the basis of sexual harassment accusations far more minor than those connected to Bill Clinton. It's just political warfare.; 6/10/10, 11:19 AM
TWM said...: "Inept dodge, by way of wildly overheated ad hominem, duly noted. Sudden Tantrum Syndrome doesn't impress me any longer, as my daughter has long since outgrown her own Terrible Twos."

You bring my mother into the conversation and you think I am acting like a child? Give me a break. Forget her terrible twos, you need to be concerned about your not having grown past adolescence.

"My Point, skippy. And, next time: try the decaffe, m'kay...?"

Then your point was not made. Being creepy is not a crime - otherwise I'm feeling that you would be in trouble. I was curious, and still am, as to exactly what the charges are. Is it stalking? Harrassment? A hate crime? Or is sending dirty pictures a crime in South Carolina?

Since you don't know and aren't interested in knowing, why don't we just stop now and save everyone else the pain of you making a fool out of yourself.

M'kayy?; 6/10/10, 11:22 AM
Daniel12 said...: Zrimsek, pretty funny. I was about to get all incensed and go hunting for counter examples. Then the synapses fired and I got it. Except watch out, I'm clearly frayed and could snap at any second.; 6/10/10, 11:26 AM
KCFleming said...: "South Carolina Democratic Party Chairwoman Carol Fowler told POLITICO she remains hopeful Greene will reconsider, but in the meantime they are speaking with their attorneys to see if there are other ways to remove him from the ballot."

Greene wasn't smart enough to leave her to drown in an overturned car, and wait to report it the next day.

Clearly not Senate material.; 6/10/10, 11:26 AM
Paul Kirchner said...: Alex said...Notice not a single leftie troll has weighed in yet!

I've started noticing that on those blessed occasions when the leftie trolls are not participating in a discussion, someone always invites them to join in.

IMO, once garagemahal or jeremy weighs in and everyone starts hurling invective back and forth, the whole exercise becomes pointless. But some people evidently yearn for these food fights.

To each his own, I suppose.; 6/10/10, 11:27 AM
Sofa King said...: I can't believe this is being charged as a felony. I guess women really are such wilting flowers that they need big daddy police state to destroy Mr. Creepy's life for having the gall to hit on them. For s. e. x.!; 6/10/10, 11:28 AM
bagoh20 said...: It's South Carolina. I think he won because he's a black on the Dem ticket. Probably got 99% of the black Dem vote. That's a lot of votes in a primary. In such a situation, race is the most important issue. He was running against a guy that looks like Jimmy Carter. Racism is alive in America.; 6/10/10, 11:29 AM
bagoh20 said...: I would like to see a post and thread someday where logical argument is the only kind of comment. No name calling, no links, no disputable facts. Just argument about the logic of positions.; 6/10/10, 11:32 AM
ricpic said...: It's SOP for black guys to crudely hit on everything that crosses their path. Ooh, did I just say something racisss? No, I made a conclusion based on tons of empirical evidence. But there are some things one mustn't say. Well, screw the PC terror brigade.; 6/10/10, 11:40 AM
former law student said...: Reminds me of when Illinois Democrats chose LaRouchies Mark Fairchild and Janice Hart as candidates for Lieutenant Governor and Secretary of State, over the furrin-sounding George Sangmeister and Aurelia Pucinski.; 6/10/10, 11:42 AM
kent said...: You bring my mother into the conversation

Oh, for the love of -- !! [::rolls eyes, exasperated::] Assumimg, just for the giggles, that you're even remotely serious, and not (as each successive post strongly suggests) simply cartoonishly attempting to slap down the High Moral Dudgeon card, for reasons I really don't even wanna guess at, really: by all means, feel free to substitute the word "sister," "aunt," "second cousin twice removed," "private secretary" -- ANY female of one's acquaintance, obviously, would make precisely the same point. No foul, unspeakable slur towards kindly, sainted old Frau TRO -- wizened and much-beloved matriarch of the TRO clan, I'm sure -- was either made, or intended.

(And I'm genuinely gob-smacked that anyone posting here, on this board, would so loudly and proudly proclaim their patent inability to read for simple, garden variety context, incidentally... but: "what" and "ever," in that order.)

Then your point was not made.

Having just had to baby elephant walk you, step by laborious step, through the above... well: let's just say I find your credentials for authoratatively offering such an assessment grossly lacking, and leave it at that.

why don't we just stop now and save everyone else the pain of you making a fool out of yourself.

Oh, I'm more than willing to take that risk, thank you, if you are. ;)

Seriously, though: try breathing into a paper bag for five minutes or something, before posting next time. Might help; couldn't hurt.; 6/10/10, 11:45 AM
former law student said...: As I pointed out yesterday, showing someone a picture of a naked female nipple is good for five years in the state pen in South Carolina.; 6/10/10, 11:45 AM
RuyDiaz said...: TPR wrote;

"I'm just curious . . . since when did it become illegal to send "normal" (as opposed to child porn) pornograpy over the internet? You can't swing a oil-soaked bird without hitting a porn site online."

I'm just curious, did you read the article before commenting? That is not what happened. He sat beside her on a computer lab and showed her pornographic pictures.

If we can't trust you to read articles before bringing the venom, on what can we trust you.; 6/10/10, 11:47 AM
Big Mike said...: Imagine what the press would say if a liberal did that! They'd go nuts!

@Daniel, perhaps you really believe what you wrote, but it simply isn't true. The press tries to cover up for liberals caught with their pants around their ankles, going back to JFK.; 6/10/10, 11:50 AM
Lincolntf said...: "When the feminists were defending Bill Clinton it became clear to me that they don't actually care about sexual harassment or even credible accusations of rape..."

I used to point that out to my Lib friends to shut them up, but it hardly ever worked. The more glaring (and harmful) example of hypocrisy was the phony baloney "anti-war" movement under Bush. People literally going insane with rage because Bush was executing the War on Terror, but the moment Obama took over (and did the same exact things) all of that faux outrage disappeared.
Finding an honorable Liberal is nearly impossible these days.; 6/10/10, 11:59 AM
MadisonMan said...: I'm just curious, did you read the article before commenting? That is not what happened. He sat beside her on a computer lab and showed her pornographic pictures.

And what is the crime?

Here at the UW, probably putting porn on a campus computer.

disseminating, procuring or promoting obscenity seems like a vague cover-everything type of statute.; 6/10/10, 12:02 PM
Big Mike said...: Finding an honorable Liberal is nearly impossible these days.

Nearly impossible?!?!?; 6/10/10, 12:02 PM
former law student said...: The press tries to cover up for liberals caught with their pants around their ankles, going back to JFK.

"Going back to JFK" is not very persuasive; the "boys will be boys" philosophy covered both liberals and conservatives back then.; 6/10/10, 12:03 PM
Lincolntf said...: Big Mike

I'm holding out hope that there's some dude in a cabin up in Maine who still remembers when Liberalism had goals other than the destruction of the freest nation on Earth. I'm sentimental that way...; 6/10/10, 12:04 PM
former law student said...: Madison man -- read the statute. The definitions are quite detailed.; 6/10/10, 12:05 PM
Big Mike said...: And what is the crime?

disseminating, procuring or promoting obscenity seems like a vague cover-everything type of statute.

And your point is? Seems to me that if one is going to run for office then one has an obligation to obey the laws already in place. They don't have to be good laws, nor do they have to be laws that you or I agree with. They just have to be obeyed.; 6/10/10, 12:07 PM
traditionalguy said...: Is the only hope for politics that don't "Embarrass" us to only elect married women?; 6/10/10, 12:09 PM
Balfegor said...: So what! If the name Bugs Bunny was put on the Democratic primary ballot, and the Democrats from SC voted for Bugs, it would prove the same thing. They are idiots!

In their defense, I don't think Democratic voters were exactly aware that Greene was facing these charges when they voted for him. Voting for him was probably a reflection of disgust with the state Democratic party and the establishment candidates. Why, I'm not sure, but everyone is disgusted with his own political party right now, and I'm sure South Carolina Democrats have their reasons, like anyone else.; 6/10/10, 12:09 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: "Do we have to talk about Alvin Greene?"

No cafe for you !?!; 6/10/10, 12:18 PM
Mark said...: I'm thinking the sheer humor value of SC politics makes it worth looking at as a place to settle down.; 6/10/10, 12:20 PM
Trooper York said...: Hey if politics doesn't work out for him, maybe he can play for the Steelers!; 6/10/10, 12:21 PM
Methadras said...: I wonder where Garage McFatty is so he can lay charges of racism against us all.; 6/10/10, 12:25 PM
Anonymous said...: Certainly this dude is a creep.

But the charges might not be warranted. He showed a woman a pornographic website and asked her to have sex with him. The "crime" seems to be in the woman's head; she seems to falsely equate the thought that he could have physically forced her with the notion that he did, or that he threatened to.

We haven't seen what it was that he showed to her, but it could just be run-of-the-mill nudity or maybe something more explicit but not obscene. It is entirely possible that the felony obscenity charge is unwarranted and that the prosecutor was just reaching for something, anything to charge him with because he is so creepy.

Look at the Mark Foley case where the circumstances are much worse. E-mails were sent (and were retrievable!) instead of just verbal communication. It was gay solicitation, not straight. It went on for ten years. The targets of Foley's solicitation were Congressional workers. Most importantly, some of them were underage.

Yet there was "no criminal finding" in the Foley case.

Why? Foley was a elite member of Congress; Greene was a non-elite prole. Maybe Greene's primary victory will push him into elite status and make him above prosecution.

Also: Foley was a Republican, and Republicans seem to better at circling the wagons and making sure that one of their own does not have to pay for the crimes that he or she committed.; 6/10/10, 12:28 PM
Methadras said...: According to Alvin, 60% of Democrat voters in S.C. voted for him. Did he show them pics afterwards? Just curious.

Seriously, what do you say about this kind of stuff? This guy is fit for chain gang duty, not as a senatorial candidate. I guess the DNC is desperate to put anyone up these days.; 6/10/10, 12:30 PM
Big Mike said...: @fls, we know that JFK and Adlai Stevenson were well-known to have mistresses, and that Lyndon Johnson and Bill Clinton wer big-time womanizers. The press totally covered up JFK and Stevenson, and did their best to play down Clinton's excesses as "merely peccadillos," despite the established truth that at least some of Clinton's women had his attentions forced upon them.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that Dick Nixon, Gerry Ford, Ronald Reagan, and the two Bushes had mistresses but the press covered it up? I remember that, quite the contrary, the press to tried to push rumors to the effect that Bush 41 and McCain were having affairs when there were absolutely no facts to back it up.; 6/10/10, 12:32 PM
Joe said...: Wow Dead Julius is GOOD, bringing up Mark Foley and “criminality” good attempt at deflection. Sadly Foley was NOT charged because the men he solicited were all legal adults….unlike Gary Studds.

Thank you for your contribution, though.; 6/10/10, 12:35 PM
Big Mike said...: @Lincolntf, or maybe up in Alaska?

;-); 6/10/10, 12:35 PM
X said...: I wonder where Garage McFatty is so he can lay charges of racism against us all.

that should have been your first clue. garage understood Joshua Micah Marshall's dog-whistle. it's open season on Greene. they want to get someone in who can win the general election.; 6/10/10, 12:39 PM
former law student said...: It is entirely possible that the felony obscenity charge is unwarranted

Unlikely, S.C. is a very moral place. I wouldn't even own a 1965 Playboy in that state. Click on this,

http://www.scstatehouse.gov/code/t16c015.htm

and scroll down to SECTION 16-15-305. Disseminating, procuring or promoting obscenity unlawful; definitions; penalties; obscene material designated contraband.; 6/10/10, 12:39 PM
Anonymous said...: Sadly Foley was NOT charged because the men he solicited were all legal adults...

WTF? In 2005, Foley sent 5 e-mails soliciting one former page who worked for Rep Rodney Alexander; at the time he was 16. In 2002, he e-mailed a 17-year-old page with a photo of his erect penis and an offer to stay at his house in exchange for oral sex.

But, eh, down the memory hole with that, right?; 6/10/10, 12:41 PM
former law student said...: Are you seriously trying to suggest that Dick Nixon, Gerry Ford, Ronald Reagan, and the two Bushes had mistresses but the press covered it up?

No one so lofty as those folks. But in the 60s, rising GOP political star Henry Hyde's public dating of a married woman never made the papers (his "youthful indiscretion" while he was in his 40s). Boys will be boys and the papers didn't care. The story came out 30 years later, when Hyde was one of the House Managers impeaching President Horndog.

http://www.salon.com/news/1998/09/cov_16newsb.html; 6/10/10, 12:46 PM
garage mahal said...: I wonder where Garage McFatty is so he can lay charges of racism against us all.

Actually I'm almost back in fighting shape. 203lbs as of yesterday. Bad news is it's largely from diuretics I'm taking for high blood pressure. Completely changed my diet, so I think I can get to 190lbs without much of a problem by July.; 6/10/10, 12:47 PM
Lincolntf said...: Of course, Barney Frank maintaining a gay brothel in the age of AIDS goes completely unpunished, legally or socially.
Foley was a creep, but there are far worse criminals and deviants sitting in Congress right now. Most with a (D) next to their name.; 6/10/10, 12:49 PM
Joe said...: Dead Julius the age of consent was SIXTEEN....so the receivers of the suggestive e-mails were LEGAL ADULTS.

Unlike Garry Studds who actually CONSUMATED his affair with an under-age intern...but was applauded and never charged, though to be fair he was "censured."

Thank you for contributing tot he discussion, though.; 6/10/10, 12:51 PM
Anonymous said...: Joe beat me to it on the age of consent issue (which I disagree with, at least when it comes from full adults in a position of power with 16 year olds, but that's besides the point). But I'd also like to point out that Mark Foley, as a direct result of his creepy and immoral but not illegal actions, is not in congress anymore. (And I don't recall any conservatives even suggesting that that was the wrong result- do you?)

- Lyssa; 6/10/10, 12:58 PM
Trooper York said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 6/10/10, 1:02 PM
Daniel12 said...: I think I misread this post. I don't think Ann was making a point about who goes nuts over what. From the headline, I think she was saying, let's NOT talk about Alvin Greene, even if under other circumstances, others would engage in said orgy. She was calling for restraint, right? Meanwhile -- look at the 76 and counting comments. Oh well.; 6/10/10, 1:03 PM
former law student said...: Dead Julius the age of consent was SIXTEEN....so the receivers of the suggestive e-mails were LEGAL ADULTS.

Unlike Garry Studds who actually CONSUMATED his affair with an under-age intern...but was applauded and never charged, though to be fair he was "censured."

According to TIME MAGAZINE, Garry Studds partner was 17, thus a LEGAL ADULT. Studds' partner-in-censure, conservative Republican Dan Crane (a Hillsdale College grad, no less) had also poked a 17 yo page; in Dan's case female.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,953990-2,00.html; 6/10/10, 1:04 PM
Trooper York said...: Although many Democrats did have some sexual skeletons in their closet, there were some in Republican circles including the famous death of Nelson Rockefeller and the scandal they hushed up about old Pat Nixon and King Timahoe.

So there is enough dirt to go around on both sides.; 6/10/10, 1:09 PM
Joe said...: FLS, you are correct...the intern was 17 and legal....he was censured for having consumated the affair...somehting that Foley did not do...he merely sent creepy e-mails.; 6/10/10, 1:10 PM
Unknown said...: To the question, "Is it a crime", the answer is, "If he's a white, Conservative Republican".

fls may clue us in on the SC code, but I'll bet this would come in under sexual harassment in any university code of conduct.

Paul said...

Alex said...Notice not a single leftie troll has weighed in yet!

I've started noticing that on those blessed occasions when the leftie trolls are not participating in a discussion, someone always invites them to join in.

IMO, once garagemahal or jeremy weighs in and everyone starts hurling invective back and forth, the whole exercise becomes pointless. But some people evidently yearn for these food fights.

Which is why I always talk past them. Answer their nonsense when necessary, but don't answer them. As you, I got tired of the tantrums when they knew they'd lost the argument.; 6/10/10, 1:11 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey, fls, thanks for the link.

Maybe you can help me out with another law question...

I know that adultery is illegal in South Carolina.

SC Governor Mark Sanford is an admitted adulterer, and most of us know the salacious details of his affairs.

Can you help me find the press release about Mark Sanford being criminally charged? Not impeachment or censure, but criminal charges.

Thanks in advance.; 6/10/10, 1:11 PM
kent said...: Which is why I always talk past them. Answer their nonsense when necessary, but don't answer them. As you, I got tired of the tantrums when they knew they'd lost the argument.

Co-signing as well, as of today. ;); 6/10/10, 1:19 PM
former law student said...: DJ -- Governor Sanford was well known for "hiking along the Appalachian Trail."

Did he commit adultery in the state of SC? Why else did he go all the way to Argentina?

Adultery's only a misdemeanor, anyway, not a felony.; 6/10/10, 1:22 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Instead of focusing on the users.. Why don't we borrow a page from Helen Thomas and send the pornographers to Poland and Germany ;)

I'm running low on snark.. must be the oil spill.. or George W Bush.; 6/10/10, 1:31 PM
Lincolntf said...: This thread just jogged a memory (or myth) that could use the powers of all your mighty legal minds (or memories) to reconcile.
Was there a case (maybe in Florida) which caused the numbers of public school teachers (and by default members of Teacher's Unions) charged with child molestation/rape to be disclosed?
Must've been back at least 5 or 10 years.
Anyway, if I remember what I think I do, there were something like 6,000 teachers within 10 years who had been busted for raping children, but the couple of dozen priests caught in the same time period got 100% of the media coverage.

I'm simply asking about this, I am not declaring it to be true.; 6/10/10, 1:32 PM
Trooper York said...: kent, based on your avatar shouldn't your screen name be Alan Scott?; 6/10/10, 1:42 PM
Phil 314 said...: When I first read about this the immediate "analysis" was that voters must have voted alphabetically. When I looked at the pictures, sad to say, my first guess was race. I'd love to see some further analysis on this.

So the SC Dem chair "hopes" he leaves the race. Doesn't the party have some power to say we won't endorse a candidate with a criminal record or felony charges pending?

(But in the mean time, get your popcorn.); 6/10/10, 1:44 PM
RuyDiaz said...: Dead Julius wrote:

"But the charges might not be warranted. He showed a woman a pornographic website and asked her to have sex with him. The "crime" seems to be in the woman's head; she seems to falsely equate the thought that he could have physically forced her with the notion that he did, or that he threatened to."

You are omitting crucial information.

Mr. Greene had already been warned that certain areas of the Campus were off limits--including the computer lab.

The young woman was IN A COMPUTER LAB. Doing her school work, chatting with her girlfriends, whatever. She had no expectation of being proposed in such an obscene way.

Why people see this case and their sympathy goes to Mr. Green, I find hard to understand.; 6/10/10, 1:46 PM
former law student said...: their sympathy goes to Mr. Green

SC's obscenity law seems draconian; I don't really care about Mr. Greene.

I am glad that SC's indecent exposure law carves out an exception for nursing mothers, by the way.; 6/10/10, 1:54 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Bad news is it's largely from diuretics I'm taking for high blood pressure. Completely changed my diet, so I think I can get to 190lbs without much of a problem by July.

Garage, pick yourself up a road bike and come stay in Indy for about two weeks and I'll have you down to 190 faster than you can say Sarah Palin's Boobjob.; 6/10/10, 2:02 PM
Mitch H. said...: The merits of the felony charge can be debated, and possibly refuted. Maybe it's bullshit, I certainly can't tell from up here.

But his incoherent gibbering when interviewed by MSM reporters is hard to refute. The apparent fact that he has yet to publicly express a reason for why he's running for Senate other than "it's [his] money and he can do anything he wants with it" is far, far more damning of both his qualifications for public office and the capacity for reasoned exercise of the franchise on the part of some 60% of the voting Democratic Party in South Carolina.

I mean, at least Chauncey Gardiner could put together a plausible collection of cliches which his audience could interpret as somewhat profound. This guy sounds more like Greta Garbo running for office while insisting on her right to be left alone.; 6/10/10, 2:02 PM
KCFleming said...: It's not easy being Greene.; 6/10/10, 2:05 PM
Adam said...: Earl Ofari Hutchinson is calling "all aboard" the Alvin Greene bandwagon:

"Voters should take careful note of what Greene did in South Carolina with a felony rap hanging over him, with no name, no money, and seemingly not a prayer of a chance to win, and then does."

I see the outline of his campaign in the general election: My qualifications for office are demonstrated by my ability to run a successful primary campaign without spending any money.

Forget DeMint, folks! Alvin Greene is the real Tea Party candidate!; 6/10/10, 2:17 PM
garage mahal said...: Garage, pick yourself up a road bike and come stay in Indy for about two weeks and I'll have you down to 190 faster than you can say Sarah Palin's Boobjob.

I bought 3 new Treks for the fam. Went on a 6 miler last Sunday, my longest. Considering I haven't done any real excising in 20 yrs, I was kind of proud. And exhausted.; 6/10/10, 2:21 PM
Synova said...: How does consent apply to showing someone pornography? Does a person say, "I'm going to show you a dirty picture. Want to see a dirty picture?" thus providing the other person with the opportunity to consent?

Or is it more like unzipping and wagging your dick?

Does a person say, "Want to see my dick?" and wait for permission or does the person just pull it out and wave it around and then it's a matter of consent if the person who looks, looks?

Not being given the opportunity to consent is the difference between a sexy phone call and an obscene phone call. It's the difference between being forced to participate against your will in a sexual encounter and... not.

Not being given that chance to consent to seeing the pictures would very rightly suggest that the person ignoring your "you're being a pig and I'm not interested" signals or outright statements, isn't likely to care about consent.

I think it's very likely that people aren't realizing just how upsetting to the girl this may have been.; 6/10/10, 3:01 PM
Jeremy said...: If it was the GOP they would have been screwing somebody else's wife while showing them porn.; 6/10/10, 3:12 PM
former law student said...: synova, good points, but consent of the other party is not an element of the felony crime Greene reportedly was arrested for.; 6/10/10, 3:15 PM
Synova said...: It might be some of the thinking behind the obscenity laws, however.

Mostly though, people were talking about consent and age of consent so I thought someone was figuring that the age of the girl was an issue.

I was skimming and likely missed something.; 6/10/10, 3:21 PM
Trooper York said...: "I think it's very likely that people aren't realizing just how upsetting to the girl this may have been."

Oh wait a minute. She was upset. That should be worth five years in jail.

Usually you make more sense then that Synova.

I mean shouldn't the punishment fit the crime a little better.

Personally I think all Democrats should do five years in jail but I think this is a little over the top for this guy.; 6/10/10, 3:21 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: One man's porn is another man's art.; 6/10/10, 3:31 PM
KCFleming said...: Usually this sort of behavior garners a promotion, at least in Massachusetts.; 6/10/10, 3:31 PM
Trooper York said...: The charges will be dropped once he agrees to drop out of the race.

But he seems like a stubborn dude so we are going to enjoy this.; 6/10/10, 3:31 PM
exhelodrvr1 said...: The real question is, what jobs has he been offered by the White House?; 6/10/10, 3:37 PM
Fen said...: Meh. The University is simply preparing her for a job interviewed with Bill Clinton.

Valenti can offer advice on what to wear and how to pose.; 6/10/10, 3:37 PM
Synova said...: Should it be a felony, Trooper? Probably not. That seems pretty silly, actually. Far too many things are made felonies that shouldn't be.

And by "upset" I mean a profound feeling of sexual violation that results in flash backs and moments of hyperventilation or panic attacks for a few days.

Damn my Scandi habit of understatement.

I'm not saying that she *did* react that way, only that it's not unusual.; 6/10/10, 3:46 PM
From Inwood said...: From Instapundit:

A NEW KIND OF POLITICS: S.C. Dems ask Senate nominee to withdraw after felony charge. I mean, usually the felony charges don’t come until after they’re in office. . . .; 6/10/10, 4:22 PM
E Buzz said...: Well, mel Reynolds liked his little Catholic Girls all dressed up in panties.

What's wrong with a little Democratic sexual lunacy?

Can you imagine Barney Frank's sex life, how fucked up that must be? I mean, come on!; 6/10/10, 4:25 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: This guy ran a successful campaign!

I remember Obama and his supporters used his large campaign as Exhibit A when asked if Obama had any substantive experience in running anything.; 6/10/10, 4:31 PM
Sofa King said...: I'm not saying that she *did* react that way, only that it's not unusual.

You've got to be kidding me. How do such fragile flowers even use the internet, where it's not at all uncommon to unexpectedly see a PENIS!

I mean, I'm sorry, I can't respect people that hyperventilate and get flashbacks for days because they saw a naughty picture. Why you think it's normal or reasonable for a woman, or anyone for that matter to act in such a way is beyond me.; 6/10/10, 4:44 PM
Ralph L said...: And by "upset" I mean a profound feeling of sexual violation that results in flash backs and moments of hyperventilation or panic attacks for a few days.
Behold, the power of estrogen.; 6/10/10, 4:50 PM
Trooper York said...: "And by "upset" I mean a profound feeling of sexual violation that results in flash backs and moments of hyperventilation or panic attacks for a few days."

Well to be fair, some people get the same feeling after reading a comment from hdhouse.; 6/10/10, 4:59 PM
Trooper York said...: Hey this isn't even the worst freakin Alvin for crying out loud!; 6/10/10, 5:02 PM
Synova said...: Look... I know young women who, if unexpectedly presented with a perv with his dong hanging out would grab the thing, give it a twist and laugh their asses off.

I also know young women who were flashed by a flasher who were freaked out for days and felt insecure simply walking to their car.

I'm not particularly meek but I positively got the shakes when I answered an obscene call once, no matter I hung up immediately. I wouldn't have believed that for even a moment and everyone else thought it was hysterical.

Why did we all get absolutely irate at the school that demanded a girl have the nurse examine her bottom or the school that made a girl strip to her panties and hop up and down to prove she wasn't hiding drugs in them? Certainly girls aren't that weak and that vulnerable, are they? But girls that age are quite likely to feel profoundly violated.

What's a "rising sophomore?" A 19 year old? Do you know that she wouldn't be freaked out by an obscene phone call or that being unexpectedly exposed to naked person parts by someone who ignored her "words" hasn't made her feel vulnerable in a way that hangs on for a while? She reported it to someone because... it bothered her not at all but it's a good opportunity to screw the guy?; 6/10/10, 5:10 PM
Synova said...: And yeah, getting a penis pop-up isn't that big a deal even if it can't be unseen, but the reason it's not a big deal is because there is not another human being forcing you to participate *with them* in a sexual event without your permission.; 6/10/10, 5:14 PM
TWM said...: "If we can't trust you to read articles before bringing the venom, on what can we trust you."

Jesus folks, when is asking a simple question "bringing venom?" Kent started reading things into my question from the get-go, apparant moralist that he is, and when I defend myself from his unnecessary snark, I'm the bad guy?

I was sincerely curious about the nature of the exact charges, and while I may not have expressed that curiosity in a manner that pleased kent and some others, I find it amusing and telling when some folks assume the worse and others start shit for no other reason than they feel like piling on.

Frankly, since I never offered an opinion on this guys guilt, or creepiness or for that matter anything having only asked a question, I don't really give a flying fuck if you "trust" me or not.

And to as my not responding before now, well, I had to do some work. Hope you don't mind.; 6/10/10, 5:31 PM
dbp said...: I think before we can fairly judge how creepy Greene is, we would have to know the nature of the porn he showed the coed.

Are we talking hardcore? Or was it a celebrity nip-slip?; 6/10/10, 5:38 PM
Ralph L said...: it bothered her not at all but it's a good opportunity to screw the guy?
That's what he wanted, so why not?; 6/10/10, 6:07 PM
Ralph L said...: If it had been a photo of her parents doing a llama, I could understand getting the vapours, but since she allowed her name to be published, I doubt that's what it was.; 6/10/10, 6:16 PM
former law student said...: To clarify: Greene was arrested but has yet to be formally charged.; 6/10/10, 6:18 PM
bagoh20 said...: When asked about the charges, Green said: "You need to get over it. I WON !" Well at least the Dems should accept that...again.; 6/10/10, 6:47 PM
bagoh20 said...: "Are we talking hardcore? Or was it a celebrity nip-slip?"

When you have a smörgåsbord to offer why offer a ham sandwich? I'm sure he used the web to pull up some nice irresistibility tempting page views.; 6/10/10, 6:52 PM
my15minutes said...: I live here (a native, no less). State government is full of buffoons generally, but usually, miraculously, we get decent people into the US House and Senate. It is perennially amusing to watch state politics, and it's great that SC can be counted on to entertain the rest of the country. But honestly.... a great place to live.; 6/10/10, 6:52 PM
bagoh20 said...: No matter what they say, 60% of the Dems voted for the guy without a gun to their heads. That is damning.

Lefties, I want that explained. Give me some spin. I know you can do it. You always give it try. Don't drop the ball now.; 6/10/10, 6:56 PM
kent said...: kent, based on your avatar shouldn't your screen name be Alan Scott?

You're dating the both of us, Trooper. ;); 6/10/10, 7:07 PM
The Scythian said...: Is it scummy that he hit on a woman by showing her porn in a college computer lab? Sure.

But I was just reading up on this guy, and he seems pretty awesome. No fundraising, no website, no campaign signs, and no support from the Democratic party.

He lives with his dad.

Maybe he just flipped my "root for the underdog" switch, but if I lived in South Carolina I'd probably vote for him.; 6/10/10, 7:35 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Alvin was the name of the old codger in David Lynch's The Straight Story (1999); 6/10/10, 7:51 PM
Ritmo Re-Animated said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 6/10/10, 7:56 PM
AC245 said...: The field day (and the implied double standard) is because cons are prude and repressed, not because Dems are hypocritical.

Ok, now go back to finding some other way to feed the "woe is me" sense of conservative victimhood. Waaaaahhhhh.... etc.

You can tell that the conservatives are the "prude and repressed" ones, because they're they ones obsessed with Bush's crotch, Palin's breasts, Haley's affairs, Vitter's sins, Foley's emails, Henry Hyde's 1960 dating habits, etc.; 6/10/10, 8:16 PM
Methadras said...: garage mahal said...

Actually I'm almost back in fighting shape.

To fight who? The Jews?; 6/10/10, 8:36 PM
Ken Pidcock said...: So Dick Polman is conservative?; 6/10/10, 8:43 PM
HT said...: I heard someone paid for his candidacy.; 6/10/10, 9:40 PM
Fred4Pres said...: What the hell is wrong with South Carolina?

It is stealing the title of Crazy State from Illinois, New Jersey and Louisianna. This is a major upset!; 6/10/10, 10:12 PM
David said...: Niether of the two Democratic candidates was going to have a chance against DeMint.

There's got to be something funny going on in the "case" against Alvin Greene. He was arrested more than half a year ago but hasn't been charged. Why? Perhaps the evidence isn't all that great, or there is some problem with the complaining witness. Or just simple neglect?

Who knows? But even in South Carolina, people are innocent until proven guilty. Not in these comments though.; 6/10/10, 10:20 PM
Chef Mojo said...: This is simply amazing. This is who the Dems elected to be their candidate for the United States Senate.

http://tinyurl.com/3aj2ogq

This guy is an effin' political ninja! Makes Chance look like a freakin' rocket scientist.

Dems, you OWN this guy!; 6/10/10, 11:31 PM
Revenant said...: Add me to the list of people who think it is ridiculous that this guy is being charged with a felony.; 6/11/10, 12:57 AM
Revenant said...: What the hell is wrong with South Carolina? It is stealing the title of Crazy State from Illinois, New Jersey and Louisianna. This is a major upset!

Please. Florida is the holder of the "craziest state" title. It's a fact.; 6/11/10, 12:59 AM
kent said...: Dems, you OWN this guy!

Yup. And the glorious, slow-motion trainwreck that is the Alvin Greene candidacy proceeds apace!

Olby Interviews Alvin Greene With A Question to Answer Word Ratio of 17:1

"Hope! CHANGE!" ;); 6/11/10, 12:59 AM
damikesc said...: I think my state has lost its collective, ever-loving mind. I never heard of Greene before he won the nomination. Honestly, I don't know how ANYBODY knew his name enough to vote for him.; 6/11/10, 6:26 AM
Anonymous said...: Olby Interviews Alvin Greene With A Question to Answer Word Ratio of 17:1

Sounds like the typical Senate confirmation hearing to me.; 6/11/10, 6:52 AM
A.Worthing said...: You know, for all the focus on Greene, I think this is probably a far bigger wake up call to the democrats than even Mickey kaus's "success." i mean it seems like the best explanation is that the democratic voters of south carolina chose, en masse, "none of the above." the dems had their favored candidate, and he lost to a man who is almsot literally a nobody.

As for Greene the man, i find it implausible to say he was a plant. i mean who could have seriously predicted this outcome? no, he is just one of those cranks and losers who is always running for office with no chance of winning. in that he is almost like a dog who catches the car he's been chasing, and is thinking, "okay, um, now what?" i'd almost like the guy, except for those felony charges.; 6/11/10, 7:38 AM
Hoosier Daddy said...: I think its funny that now Clyburn wants and investigation into it. I also heard scuttlebut that the GOP put this guy up.

I would say: So what if they did? I mean the guy didn't even campaign, is an obvious nut yet despite all that, the "people had spoken". Seems a bigger indictment against the SC Democrat electorate than some nefarious hypothetical plot by the GOP.; 6/11/10, 7:57 AM
A.Worthing said...: I would take Clyburn's cries of "setup" more seriously if 1) democrats cared about the blatant black panther voter intimidation in November 2008; 2) if they cared about the voter fraud operation at Acorn; and 3) if Clyburn didn't slander my group by engineering that fake "spitting and slurs" Obamacare incident.; 6/11/10, 8:10 AM
MadisonMan said...: Why people see this case and their sympathy goes to Mr. Green, I find hard to understand.

My sympathy extends only to the fact that he's likely charged with a felony (instead of something more minor).

He's a major-league creep for doing what he did.

As to whether he's a Republican Plant? That's an interesting added aspect to the story. There may have been Campaign Laws broken, but that doesn't change the fact that the Democratic Party in SC seems to be as adroit as the Republican Party in NY.; 6/11/10, 8:14 AM
AllenS said...: When the general election finally rolls around, and if 51% of the voters are black, Alvin Greene will win with 51% of the vote. It's that simple. He will be welcomed into the Congressional Black Caucus with open arms.; 6/11/10, 8:31 AM
Opus One Media said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 6/11/10, 8:34 AM
Opus One Media said...: Not discounting all this and it is something that probably needs some looking into - not the least of which is all the events surrounding this fellow Greene and his campaign...

1. The computer labs at USC (my son went there) have filters and restrictions as do most libraries and public labs....this did as well according to a radio statement I heard read two nights ago.

Her statement "I said, 'That's offensive,' and he sat there laughing," said Camille McCoy, a rising sophomore who said Greene sat down next to her in a computer lab and asked her to look at pornographic photos on his screen. "He said, 'Let's go to your room now.' It was kind of scary. He's a pretty big boy. He could've overpowered me."
McCoy called campus police and picked Greene out of a photo array."

As raised earlier - a photo array at the campus police post? Was Greene a student or just "on campus" and how did he get into the computer lab and "He's a pretty big boy"...hmmmm.

Later she says she is going to be his worst nightmare when he hits the campaign trail...and if anyone thinks is the normal, run of the mill arrest......; 6/11/10, 8:36 AM
former law student said...: synova,

Was your point that Greene would not have been arrested had the other party consented to see it? Because that is a very valid point.; 6/11/10, 8:42 AM
former law student said...: When the general election finally rolls around, and if 51% of the voters are black, Alvin Greene will win with 51% of the vote.

Sure, just like Artur Davis was supposed to coast to the Democratic gubernatorial nomination in nearby Alabama. Except he only got half the black vote.

Being black is not enough to attract black voters.; 6/11/10, 8:52 AM
former law student said...: When the general election finally rolls around, and if 51% of the voters are black, Alvin Greene will win with 51% of the vote.

Sure, just like Artur Davis was supposed to coast to the Democratic gubernatorial nomination in nearby Alabama. Except he only got half the black vote.

Being black is not enough to attract black voters.; 6/11/10, 8:52 AM
Anonymous said...: "The Strange Case of Alvin Green." If it wasn't true, it would make on helluva short story. Everything, except a guy trying to pick up a girl, is completely improbable, and his interviews are fascinating. He's obviously had coachig and legal counseling. He came up with $10,400 to get his name on the ballot, but he apparently didn't spen a dime to win the Dem. primary. DeMint would be insane to try a stunt like this. Who dunnit.

I love the south. It seems like most towns of any size have a crazy genius character, and sometimes they have money. I think we might be witnessing a world class prank.; 6/11/10, 9:37 AM
Anonymous said...: "Sure, just like Artur Davis was supposed to coast to the Democratic gubernatorial nomination in nearby Alabama. ..."

You left out the fact that the Democrat party apparatus in AL was mobilized against Davis and that most black Democrat pols openly campaigned for his rival.

"When the general election finally rolls around, and if 51% of the voters are black, Alvin Greene will win with 51% of the vote."

Yep.; 6/11/10, 9:52 AM
kent said...: The news report says he has not entered a plea or been indicted in connection with the obscenity charge. Greene asks: "I have not been indicted? Indicted? What does that mean?" His brother explains that a charge and an indictment are different things. He nods.

Oh, God. My sides are actually beginning to hurt. ;); 6/11/10, 10:02 AM
former law student said...: You left out the fact that the Democrat party apparatus in AL was mobilized against Davis and that most black Democrat pols openly campaigned for his rival.

Yep, being a black Democrat is insufficient to get the black Democrat vote. The white guy's character must have had more content.

"I have not been indicted? Indicted? What does that mean?" His brother explains that a charge and an indictment are different things. He nods.

I'm not familiar with SC criminal procedure myself. But as I understand it Greene has yet to be charged with a crime.; 6/11/10, 11:13 AM
kent said...: fls: "I have not been indicted? Indicted? What does that mean?"

With the clear understanding that this is the SC Democratic Party's duly chosen aspirant to the high office of United States Senator: keep re-reading, until the funny comes. ;); 6/11/10, 11:27 AM
AllenS said...: fls,

"I have not been indicted? Indicted? What does that mean?"

Then you say: I'm not familiar with SC criminal procedure myself. But as I understand it Greene has yet to be charged with a crime.

What you quoted went right over your head, didn't it?; 6/11/10, 11:28 AM