Althouse: Is Hillary setting herself up for a 2012 challenge to Barack Obama?

May 13, 2010

Is Hillary setting herself up for a 2012 challenge to Barack Obama?

"There is a subtle distancing going on...."

69 comments:

Original Mike said...: Well, who wouldn't want to distance themself from this train wreck?; 5/13/10, 1:38 PM
Phil 314 said...: Dick Morris!?!

Dick effing Morris!?!

Puhhleeeeeze!; 5/13/10, 1:42 PM
traditionalguy said...: Dick Morris was scarred for life by Hillary. She is shrinking before our eyes, but Morris can only see a Giant Godzilla Clinton Monster walking down Pennsylvania Avenue.; 5/13/10, 1:43 PM
Jason said...: "the bitch set me up!!!"; 5/13/10, 1:46 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: I'm hoping she does just so I can see garage mahal go clinically insane right here on Althouse!; 5/13/10, 1:46 PM
Anonymous said...: Didn't Dick Morris think that the 2008 election would be Condi v. Hillary?; 5/13/10, 1:46 PM
mesquito said...: What happens to Democrats if they lose both Houses. Do the go marching happily along with the current Messiah?; 5/13/10, 1:47 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Dick effing Morris!?!

Puhhleeeeeze!

Well of all the talking heads out there, Dicky does seem to have the Clinton's number more than anyone.; 5/13/10, 1:47 PM
GMay said...: "Hillary Clinton Is Throwing Obama Under The Bus For A 2012 Run."

Sounds like she's just trying to beat him to the punch.; 5/13/10, 1:48 PM
GMay said...: Something tells me that if this happens, you won't hear a peep in the media about "purity tests" in the Democratic party.

Just a hunch.; 5/13/10, 1:50 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Could Hillary even dream of winning without the black vote? I assume blacks would sit out the election if the Dems dumped Obama.

wv = hypep; 5/13/10, 1:51 PM
Wince said...: I still think the deal between Hillary and Obama was that she wouldn't challenge him in 2012.

But if Obama collapses of his own weight, well, then, somebody has to step up as the standard bearer.; 5/13/10, 1:55 PM
Scott M said...: If it were today, I'd say yes, but I wonder how effectively she could campaign against him. It became readily apparent during the 2008 primaries that the identity-politics-fixated Democrats favor race over gender, closet misogynists that they are.; 5/13/10, 1:59 PM
Phil 314 said...: Dicky does seem to have the Clinton's number more than anyone.

Don't tell me they're sexting back and forth!; 5/13/10, 2:03 PM
ricpic said...: Canary yellow pantsuits rule!; 5/13/10, 2:05 PM
chuck b. said...: I would have preferred her in the first place. She feels like a pair of old jeans.; 5/13/10, 2:06 PM
Kensington said...: Why does Dick Morris have credibility with anyone on the Right, and what has he accomplished since teaching Bill Clinton how to triangulate?

For crying out loud, two months ago he was running around saying that ObamaCare wouldn't pass!

He's a joke, and he should stick to toe sucking.; 5/13/10, 2:07 PM
Original Mike said...: "For crying out loud, two months ago he was running around saying that ObamaCare wouldn't pass!"

I have no love for Dick Morris, but I have seen him alot on the Fox talking head programs and this is factually incorrect.; 5/13/10, 2:12 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: She really can't run for President against Obama while still serving in his cabinet. Therefore, we need to sit back and watch her over the next year or so.

I think that an alternative explanation may be that the Obamaites are marginalizing her position to the extent that they can, given the traditional power of that office. They do that, for one thing, with all those special envoys who have better access to the President's ear than she does. And this may be to neuter her power as Secretary of State.

I think that you really need to contrast her position with that of her immediate predecessor. When Dr. Rice spoke, there was never any doubt that she spoke with a 100% support of President GW Bush. She spoke with the full might and power of the United States behind her.

I don't think that Sec. Clinton has this, and that is evidenced by those special envoys who report to the White House, and not Foggy Bottom.; 5/13/10, 2:16 PM
Tank said...: Dick Morris has made more wrong predictions than .... uh, infinity.

Hillary cannot beat Obama. Blacks are racists and will all vote for Obama again. That was how he beat her for the nomination, and how he'll beat any Democrat again. Repub's have some chance against him because they DON'T rely on the black vote.; 5/13/10, 2:16 PM
Unknown said...: .....hmmm.....

is that why bill is trying again to resolve hillary's campaign debt ? cleaning off the books for a potential run ? gauging support / interest ???

i dont put it past the clintons.

but, all the party insiders hate the clintons ! does she think she can get grassroots support ?

what will her campaign be about ? she'll have to address Obama. will she say look at the crap he did (that she was apart of). will she be saying 'i told you so ?' Will she belittle him ?

tons of people still love Obama and will have none of that from her. all those explitives come to mind, joined to words like conniving, ungrateful, sore looser ....

i suppose its possible that Obama could choose not to run, and she's preparing for that possibility. that seems more likely to me.; 5/13/10, 2:16 PM
knox said...: From the article:

...given the current potential backlash against Democrats in the 2010 midterm elections, “it’s possible that a grassroots swell comes up” and recruits Clinton to run against Obama in 2012.

It's hard for me to believe that the democrats will move anywhere but further leftward from now on ... but here's hoping!!; 5/13/10, 2:17 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: all those explitives come to mind, joined to words like conniving, ungrateful, sore looser ....

Oh how the once mighty and beloved among liberals can fall so low when replaced by one more lovable....; 5/13/10, 2:20 PM
Unknown said...: rdkraus -- you are racist. and you dont know what you are talking about.

obama got into the running via early fundraising from rich people, and secondly in Iowa where blacks are less than 5% of the population. he then out organized her to get an insurmountable lead in pledged delegates.

...and if you recall (which you probably dont) hillary was the one talking about race and pushing the idea that middle-class whites wouldnt vote for Obama.; 5/13/10, 2:20 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: obama got into the running via early fundraising from rich people

Wait...I thought he got his money from those millions of grass roots average people who kicked in a $5 or $10 spot here and there. Are you telling me that Obama owes his election success to the rich?

I always thought Obama was the Manchurian Candidate. I had no idea Obama it would turn out he was a Republican.

/slaps forehead; 5/13/10, 2:32 PM
Tank said...: Here's my analysis danielle. Show me where I'm wrong.

Obama and Clinton were, for all intents and purposes, the same on the issues. So you would expect a split of somewhere near 50/50 for two strong viable candidates. And Clinton was a woman and would have been the first female president; just as the big zero is the first black. Yet, once Obama seemed viable, blacks voted for him at more than 95%. Why? Because he's black. End of story.; 5/13/10, 2:34 PM
Anonymous said...: I agree with those who say no way. I absolutely hate it, but Obama could eat a live baby on T.V. and spit the bones out on MLK's grave, and he would still have the support of the majority of the black vote. Any dem who challenges him would commit political suicide.

In fact, I think that even if a Rep beats him, it will immensely fuel the idea that Reps hate blacks and are motivated by nothing but racism, regardless of how bad Obama is.

It's sad, and it never should have come to this, but he is our first black president and we have to own him. The best case scenario now is a massive shift in 2010 and some major triangulation from the White House for the next 6years.

- Lyssa; 5/13/10, 2:38 PM
Scott M said...: Obama and Clinton were, for all intents and purposes, the same on the issues. So you would expect a split of somewhere near 50/50 for two strong viable candidates. And Clinton was a woman and would have been the first female president; just as the big zero is the first black.

Obama was, at least during the primaries (if memory serves), against the individual mandate for insurance and ran on that as a difference. As more proof that everything he says has an expiration date, that's now flipped 180 degrees. While Hillary is wholly woman (debatable), President Obama is half-black. Something the identity politicos out there seem to keep missing again and again.

Besides, he would have been sound asleep at 3am. We all know she was up waiting for that call. TV said so.; 5/13/10, 2:43 PM
Scott M said...: ..and for those of you claiming it will never happen, how many of you also said Brown would never win in Mass? Please be honest.; 5/13/10, 2:44 PM
Unknown said...: She's been an absolute cipher at State, partly because of the foreign policy czars established by The Zero to do the real work of diplomacy and part by her own incompetence.

She may be setting herself up for it, but she's history.

Kirstin said...

Didn't Dick Morris think that the 2008 election would be Condi v. Hillary?

He kept telling O'Really it would be the ideal match.

chuck b. said...

I would have preferred her in the first place. She feels like a pair of old jeans.

She's starting to look that way. She been to the plastic surgeon a couple of times too often.

(Yes, I know, dropping and counting out 1, 2, 3...)

PS Morris is interesting to listen to, but I can't really trust a guy whose loyalties are that elastic.; 5/13/10, 2:45 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: PS Morris is interesting to listen to, but I can't really trust a guy whose loyalties are that elastic.

Baron Harkonnen: "Never trust a traitor. Even one you create."

Dune, 2000; 5/13/10, 2:50 PM
Original Mike said...: ...and if you recall (which you probably dont) hillary was the one talking about race and pushing the idea that middle-class whites wouldnt vote for Obama.

And it turned out Hillary was wrong (though there's no way to know if she really believed that or if it just was a campaign talking point). However, I think those here who have posited that Hillary would never get the black vote if she challenged Obama are correct.

Hillary's smart enough to know this. Somebody, however, apparently needs to explain this to Dick Morris.; 5/13/10, 2:51 PM
Unknown said...: rdkraus -- please point to all the dem primaries where the black vote was so substantial to sway the delegate allocation to make Obama's delegate count insurmountable AND where hillary also had the organization to actually compete.

and for those others of you talking about the way black people vote, in the last several presidential races, blacks have voted for the dem candidate at rates > 90%. its not just because black people are probably more likely to identify with, relate to, and trust the Obama's that black people voted for him.; 5/13/10, 2:52 PM
garage mahal said...: Dick Morris? LOLZ.; 5/13/10, 2:55 PM
Unknown said...: oh, and in the primaries, obama got 85% of the black vote.; 5/13/10, 3:02 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: If the Dems abandon Obama, blacks, on average, will abandon Dem presidential candidates for a few cycles I bet. That's not racism; it's normal, tribal American politics IMO.; 5/13/10, 3:13 PM
Roger J. said...: Seems to me the november mid terms will be significant for any dem hoping/wishing to oust Mr Obama--Mr Obama does not have to run again for at least a year, and a whole lot can happen in that year. In short, too early to make these kinds of navel gazing judgments. Now about a year november, I will be buying popcorn in bulk for the following year.; 5/13/10, 3:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Dick Morris is just like an old Tijuana hustler: he'll say absolutely anything for one American dollar.

Besides, everyone knows that prior to the 2012 run, Biden will be forced into a not-so-early retirement and Clinton will take his place as the #2 on the ticket, which will in turn position her for her own Madam President run in 2016.; 5/13/10, 3:18 PM
Anonymous said...: I cannot fucking stand it when people call black people who have doctoral degrees "Dr." It is so fundamentally belittling however well-intentioned. It is an embarrassment.; 5/13/10, 3:19 PM
Anonymous said...: And goddammit there's only one o in loser. This isn't a sports page people; 5/13/10, 3:23 PM
Dustin said...: Dick Morris has a poor track record, to say the least, and has a peculiar attitude around the Clintons. I think Morris is justified to have a problem with them, given his explanation of that, but still... don't buy much coming from him.

Hillary would lose. The democrats are stuck with Obama, race hustling, and praying for the economy to recover despite their amazingly terrible economic policies. Bush managed to save the economy from the Clinton recession, but Obama is simply not a Bush quality guy.

Still, I wonder how much fun you could have printing a few hundred thousand Hillary 2012 stickers and signs and randomly putting them in swing states.; 5/13/10, 3:25 PM
GMay said...: "Still, I wonder how much fun you could have printing a few hundred thousand Hillary 2012 stickers and signs and randomly putting them in swing states."

I'd pay to see that. You'd probably have NPR on a hot button issue like that trying to get to the bottom of such heresy!; 5/13/10, 3:55 PM
Richard Dolan said...: An intraparty challenge to a sitting president seeking a second term has almost never turned out well for the challengers. Even Carter was able to beat back Teddy in 1980. Obama is in much better position with the Dems (his approval rating among Dems is north of 85%) than Carter was. The voters with whom Obama is in very deep trouble are the Reps (among whom he has an approval rating of about 15%) and the independents (about 40%).

Nothing suggests that anyone could successfully challenge Obama for the 2012 Dem nomination if he wants it. He'd have to pull an LBJ for there to be a credible path to the nomination for HRC. While she is many things, she's not suicidal (as many have pointed out above).; 5/13/10, 4:08 PM
James said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 5/13/10, 4:13 PM
James said...: I cannot fucking stand it when people call black people who have doctoral degrees "Dr." It is so fundamentally belittling however well-intentioned. It is an embarrassment.

You mean like Dr. Jill Biden?

And yes, its an embarrassment that the White House and the entire national media addresses her as Dr. Biden.; 5/13/10, 4:18 PM
Penny said...: "Dick Morris is just like an old Tijuana hustler: he'll say absolutely anything for one American dollar."

Ole'! In the same show, Morris also said that the Republicans would not only take over the house but also the senate as Obama would implode as the worst president in American history.

Morris is writing his own political fairy tale.; 5/13/10, 4:42 PM
Dustin said...: Penny, do you really think it's a fairy tale to predict the GOP taking the House?

The Senate is a tall order, but also conceivable.

Morris is living in his own world, I admit. So are democrats who don't admit the GOP has recovered from oblivion almost instantly, and it's thanks entirely to Pelosi and Reid being able to walk all over Obama, who doesn't really seem to give a crap about this promises.

I suspect an Obama administration with a GOP congress would actually not be all that bad.; 5/13/10, 4:54 PM
Kensington said...: "I have no love for Dick Morris, but I have seen him alot on the Fox talking head programs and this is factually incorrect."

No, it isn't. I didn't see him on television, but I heard him on the radio with both Hugh Hewitt and Dennis Prager in the days before the ObamaCare vote.

His steady prediction at the end was that it wouldn't pass.; 5/13/10, 6:15 PM
Anonymous said...: I predicted to nobody in particular (well, my girlfriend to be exact) that Obama stood a very good chance of being impeached and convicted before the end of his first term.

I don't base that on any particular issue or act on his part. I'm just from Chicago, and I've been following this corrupt mutt birthed from the marriage of convenience of the Daley machine and Jesse Jackson's shakedown racket.

Where do you think that 3/4 of a million bucks came from? You know, that mountain of cash Obama collected after he ditched public financing?

It's true that the liberal press was remarkably uninterested in Obama's odd associations during the election. That same press was determined to hear nothing, see nothing and speak nothing about Obama's financial hustles.

I still see it all falling apart in the future. This stuff is hard to hide. Has a tendency to start leaking out as friends turn into enemies in the battle for swag.

All politicians are corrupt. Obama is corrupt on the level of a Filipino kleptocrat.; 5/13/10, 6:25 PM
Unknown said...: Dead Julius said...

...

Besides, everyone knows that prior to the 2012 run, Biden will be forced into a not-so-early retirement and Clinton will take his place as the #2 on the ticket, which will in turn position her for her own Madam President run in 2016.

Biden getting dumped is one thing. The Zero's gravitas requirement is up in smoke, but Hillary taking Halo Joe's place?

The air must be rare on the planet where you live.; 5/13/10, 6:26 PM
Bruce Hayden said...: Ole'! In the same show, Morris also said that the Republicans would not only take over the house but also the senate as Obama would implode as the worst president in American history.

It would be very hard for him to be the worst in American history, and I even think it unlikely that he will beat President Carter in that regards.

I do think it very optimistic for the Republicans to retake the Senate this time. The numbers are just not in their favor this election. Too many Republican seats at issue, and not enough even competitive Democratic ones. If all the seats in the Senate were up for election this time, I could see the Republicans winning 55 or more seats if the elections were today. But only 1/3 are up, and, as I said, the seats subject to this election don't favor the Republicans. But, then, they really didn't favor the Democrats in 2008, and they pulled it off anyway. So, we shall see.; 5/13/10, 6:39 PM
former law student said...: Dick Morris is setting himself up to avoid oblivion.

What else has he got going for himself, but the Clintons? And Chelsea isn't going to run for anything anytime soon.; 5/13/10, 7:32 PM
GMay said...: shoutingthomas said: "Where do you think that 3/4 of a million bucks came from?"

You left off a zero or three.; 5/13/10, 8:46 PM
David said...: Not . . . A . . . Chance.

2008 was Hilary's year.

She blew it.; 5/13/10, 9:02 PM
David said...: Obama got his motor running in Iowa. Virtually no black vote.

Here in South Carolina, Obama won the primary.

Yes, he got nearly all of the black vote, but also 35% of the white vote.

Early on, Hilary killed Obama in the black vote in polls.

Interestingly, Obama won over the black vote by proving that he could also run well with whites.

He ran not as post racial, but pan racial. Unfortunately, as President, he has played the race card pretty heavily. Bad Obama!; 5/13/10, 9:11 PM
Anonymous said...: I said in Fall 2008 and I stand by my statement: it was a very strange time in American politics that people removed the zeitgeist will look up confoundedly.

Also, in addition to the fact that the Democrat was going to win almost no matter what because everyone was just sick and tired of Bush, McCain was the worst candidate ever. Even worse than Dole, if you ask me.

I also said that people were going to be looking back in a short enough time and thinking that Bush was pretty okay. That's already happening.

I wish I could figure out a way to profit from my prescience.; 5/13/10, 9:43 PM
Mark said...: David, unless things change radically, Obama is going to be a very weak incumbent in 2012. 2008 may have been Hillary's! year, but he's going to get challenged from the center for the nomination, bet on it.; 5/14/10, 12:26 AM
Mark said...: My first wife was a lilly-white Norwegian-descended neuroscientist who, along with her peers, thought that the MDs were the poseurs because a real Doctorate meant that you'd defended a dissertation.

She certainly didn't feel demeaned when people used the "Doctor" honorific.

To each his or her own.; 5/14/10, 12:32 AM
Revenant said...: She'd be a fool not to consider it. His approval ratings stink, and aren't likely to get any better. You know there are plenty of Democrats out there who think they made a big mistake.; 5/14/10, 12:59 AM
Anonymous said...: Mark -- People who refer to black people with Ph.Ds as Doctor don't refer to people with other skin colors who have Ph.Ds as Doctor. Nobody said Dr. Paul Wellstone. Nobody says Dr. David Price. Why?

White people who do this are trying to show respect in a way that is not universal. It's therefore demeaning. It's just another way of singling someone out because of their race.; 5/14/10, 1:16 AM
Opus One Media said...: Has this arrogant twerp stopped humping hookers long enough to form an opinion?

What a train wreck.; 5/14/10, 6:28 AM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Has this arrogant twerp stopped humping hookers long enough to form an opinion?

I don't care what Tiger Wood's opinion is.; 5/14/10, 6:32 AM
AllenS said...: Obama would beat Clinton by a larger margin next time. Even if Obama's approval ratings are in the single digits. I think the Dems are getting tired of the Clintons.

WV: sucit

Oh, my!; 5/14/10, 7:19 AM
Ben (The Tiger in Exile) said...: The "Dr." tick is an odd one.

Personally, I preferred being at a university where everyone had PhDs, and so everyone was "Professor So-and-so".

If I'm talking about something Rice said, I'll call her Rice; if I'm talking about what something Kissinger said, I'll call him Kissinger. Mind you, references to "Dr. Kissinger" seem familiar, so maybe it isn't just for blacks with doctorates.

Historical question: did Woodrow Wilson get tagged "Dr. Wilson" before he became governor of New Jersey?; 5/14/10, 7:27 AM
Ben (The Tiger in Exile) said...: Oh, but back to the topic at hand.

I think Obama would beat Clinton like a drum in 2012.

People know what happens to parties with serious internal challengers to a sitting president -- oblivion. (Sole exception to the rule: Harry Truman in 1948. But he was challenged by a segregationalist and a communist, so that's a one-off.); 5/14/10, 7:28 AM
former law student said...: If Hillary had any leadership ability she would be accomplishing great things as Secretary of State. Obama gave her an opportunity to show what she can do, and what has she done with it?

Someone with real talent would be able to figure out how to circumvent O's "foreign policy czars." But no.

Hillary is a caretaker and nothing more. Senator is a good role for her, because she can think and kibitz without having to produce.; 5/14/10, 9:21 AM
Scott M said...: Dick Morris is setting himself up to avoid oblivion.

What else has he got going for himself, but the Clintons? And Chelsea isn't going to run for anything anytime soon.

Testify. Morris is a blowhard that gets entirely too much attention.; 5/14/10, 9:21 AM
Scott M said...: Carpetbagger is a good role for her, because she can think and kibitz without having to produce.

There...fixed it for you.; 5/14/10, 9:23 AM
Revenant said...: Someone with real talent would be able to figure out how to circumvent O's "foreign policy czars." But no.

It would be grounds for impeachment if she did. Under her oath to uphold the Constitution she is obligated to obey Presidential direction in foreign policy.

Sure, cabinet members go rogue sometimes, but it is rare for anything good to come of it.; 5/15/10, 3:15 AM