April 29, 2010
"We will not stop! We will take up our shovels and pickaxes and we...we will use them against you! Believe that!"
Imagine if this level of anger and threatening speech had come from the Tea Party people?
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285 comments:
1 – 200 of 285 Newer› Newest»The civility of the Tea Party is unprecedented. It's a model of how to protest that hopefully will succeed even if the only outcome is more civility in protesting.
Illegals are a protected class.
Their potential as voting Democrats silences any MSM commentary, other false accusations of racism toward anyone who seeks to have immigration laws enforced.
They (the demonstrators) can say anything, make any threat, cause any damage, and receive only sympathy and support form the MSM. Meanwhile, elderly Tea Partiers are called Nazis and racists.
When you consider how badly Mexico treats illegal aliens (primarily from Central America), this wailing and gnashing of teeth over AZ is ridiculous. I'd like to be able to come up with some sympathy but the cause is lacking intelligent posture.
Wave the flag of a foreign contry and threaten to attack and I'm inclined to tell you to go home. I know a lot of American Hispanics and they don't buy into this crap either.
I am my lawn's own gardener
The left is nothing but protected classes.
When you are angry you just cant protest peacefully--I mean just ask the bosnian serbs, and the tutsi in rwanda--violence is perfectly justified when your cause is "right"
Get real.
Just listen to some of the interviews and comments from the tea baggers and you hear all kinds of ridiculous violent rhetoric.
What do you think those signs, with bulls-eyes over the President of the United States are supposed to mean?
And why doe The Queen continue to represent herself as some kind of moderate, when she and her husband, Needy, are both actually tea baggers themselves?
Anything to suck up to the regular wing nuts, huh, Queeny...even if you yourself have to expose your xenophobia?
El Pollo Real said.."I am my lawn's own gardener."
Sure, but that's only because you can't afford to hire an immigrant to do it.
And can we assume you think all Hispanics are gardeners?
Duh.
The spaceship from Planet Of The Loons has landed.
Tell me this group isn't made up of tea bagging assholes:
Facebook: The group is called, "DEAR LORD, THIS YEAR YOU TOOK MY FAVORITE ACTOR, PATRICK SWAYZIE. YOU TOOK MY FAVORITE ACTRESS, FARAH FAWCETT. YOU TOOK MY FAVORITE SINGER, MICHAEL JACKSON. I JUST WANTED TO LET YOU KNOW, MY FAVORITE PRESIDENT IS BARACK OBAMA. AMEN."
Jeremy is here thinking about testicles in his mouth, again.
Heard Jeremy on Hugh Hewitt last week. Hewitt was great with him. I laughed until I cried.
Don't people understand the purely political (i.e. non-racist) connotations of holding May Day rallies in the US? Or is it deliberate?
Mostly peaceful demonstrations.
-XC
wv: mycove => all mycove are belong to you
Jeremy, I usually ignore you but you're full of shit, no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Not intelligent, no sense of humor and not even good at being a liberal. Pay attention to Alpha Liberal or HDHouse.
The spaceship from Planet Of The Loons has landed.
You mean the siamese labs?
This pernicious, twisted logic about illegals has so permeated the lefts thinking that even Brown, all the way over there, calls it "bigotry".
Its incredible.
Q. What were Davy Crockett's last words?
A. What are all these fucking landscapers doing here?
@jeremy - My MIL (lifelong blue dog) sent me that joke. As she has a sense of humor she reminded me that she'd sent it with Bush as the punch line.
-XC
It seems like some of the rhetoric against the tea parties for being full of "hate" has died down a little bit since 4/15 (present nutjobs excluded, of course), but even so, I honestly feel like I'm living in some sort of crazy wonderland when I see things like this. Up is down, black is white, the tea partiers are crazy, angry and violent while the other side just fades into the background.
How is this possible? How can this be justified? It just doesn't make sense. Maybe I'm young, but I don't think that I've ever seen this level of denial of clear and obvious facts, and it's scary.
- Lyssa
Good. The more irriational, violent they act.....the more push back there will be from those who will be exposed (via television and media) to what the rest of us in the States that have been invaded are exposed to on a daily basis.
Even in States where the illegal invasion is minimal, the people will look upon this crowd of threatening rabble, waving Mexican flags, threatening to kill and maim, and demanding (in Spanish) that we give them back their country.
Well, they should be addressing the last complaint to Spain.
Go ahead. Re-enforce the resolve of those who insist that we have orderly and lawful immigration.
The bigger the temper tantrum they throw the more the 'adults' in the country will wake up to the fact that we are in real danger.
Good day fellow republicans.
It is Mayfair this weekend at Harvard and things are really getting exciting. The food, music, dance etc will be fierce.
I also have mixed emotions about the Cape Wind project. What about the fishermen and their clamming efforts, what about the beautiful oceanviews?
For those of you living in unattractive states with little or no beauty I understand you don't understand.
But please hold us in your hearts and prayers this weekend and sing from the highest mountains.
Peace be with all of you my fellow republicans and may you have a safe, wonderful, weekend.
Thank you so much.
OK that was mean of me to diss your dogs Jeremy, and I apologize. :)
I had a glass of red wine last night and the pinching of my morning loaf caused it too be a dark black.
Thank you.
Expat(ish) - There are i million people that are part of the "joke" as you call it.
I heard some back-bencher GOP congressman debating Chris Matthews last night. He made the point that it's simply not fair to the immigrants that have done it the legal way. Matthews responded that "life's not fair". I rarely want to hurl things at my television, but that was close.
During the big muckity-muck over ARMs and foreclosures, the same argument was put to Barney Frank. How is it fair to someone that plays by the rules, got a fixed rate, and pays their mortgage on time? Barney said, life's not fair.
For icons on the left to assert that life isn't fair seems to undercut a great deal of their arguments for just about all of their policies.
--30 million uninsured? Life's not fair.
--Getting kicked out of your McMansion because you took an ARM and can no longer pay it? Life's not fair.
Flunked a couple grades in school? Life's not fair.
Didn't get a scholarship to college? Life's not fair.
Parent's in that zone where they make too much to get money for college, but not enough to afford college? Life's not fair.
Not born in the United States, but really, really, really want to live there because your country is a cesspool? Life's not fair.
Have a left-wing social justice-based agenda demanding an equality of outcomes? LIFE ISN'T FUCKING FAIR!
SteveR - Suck my dick.
If you can fit it into your mouthful of balls.
Why is it whenever Democrat Party racism and violent rhetoric is put on display, it's only worthy of a one-line post wondering what the response would be if Republicans acted this way?
Is that all there is to say about this issue?
I had a glass of red wine last night and the pinching of my morning loaf caused it too be a dark black.
A biochemist could explain that for you Titus- it's alimentary.
The issue in this case is not teapartiers/teabaggers as your prefer--it is the the rhetoric of this particular set of protesters who, at least in my opinion, seem a bit more violent than the teapersons
Maguro said..."Q. What were Davy Crockett's last words? A. What are all these fucking landscapers doing here?"
Once again, a regular tea bagger makes my point: Xenophobic and racist.
Thanks, dumbfuck.
You don't seem to be paying attention to the TPers.
* Shouting down elected representatives trying to meet with constituents.
* Equating the President with Hitler, Nazism, Communism.
* Giving a voice to white resentment.
* Making blatantly racial attacks on the President, time and time again.
* Echoing rhetoric from mass murderer Timothy McVeigh about "the tree of liberty."
* Bringing actual weapons to political rallies.
Althouse, you are blind.
This woman is not representative of her fellow anti-Arizona compatriots. Bad example.
The opposition to this law is stupid enough without her.
Recession-induced emotions from both sides. Not at all surprising.
It is the time of the year here to start experiencing the "Clam Shacks".
The options are endless and the fried clams are delish.
Personally, I love whole belly's and have a preference for Woodmans in Essex.
But when dining at Clam Shacks I also like to taste their other fried seafood, like shrimp, scallops, haddocks and lobster.
Therefore, I prefer the Fishermen's Platter which has all seafood types.
I have a tendency to not be able to eat an entire Fried Clams dindin.
For those of you living in parts of the country that don't experience Clam Shacks I am sorry and my heart breaks for you and I am praying for you that you too can experience Fried Clams fresh from the Atlantic.
New "Hussein" Ham said..."Is that all there is to say about this issue?"
Are you kidding?
This is just the standard daily feeding of the tea baggers who live most of their lives right here...sucking on The Queen's every word...or inane headline.
It's an every day exercise in The Queen feeding her own narcissism.
Just read the comments.
90% of them are nothing more than racist, xenophobic rants against all people of color.
It's what being a GOP tea bagger is all about: Hate.
The hilarious thing is that Jeremy and Alpha actually believe what they post here has credibility.
I had a glass of red wine last night and the pinching of my morning loaf caused it too be a dark black.
I quit smoking, and one thing I've noticed is the return of rock hard bowel movements. I'm talking a piece of mahogany. *POP* Like a champagne cork.
I always wanted to contribute something insightful on turd threads.
"...caused it too be a dark black."
Try drinking the wine next time.
And now there is new conclusive polling research showing TPers foster greater racial resentment than normal Americans:
""The data suggests that people who are Tea Party supporters have a higher probability" -- 25 percent, to be exact -- "of being racially resentful than those who are not Tea Party supporters."
"The Tea Party is not just about politics and size of government. The data suggests it may also be about race."
Another survey found many TPers believe "too much has been made of the problems facing black people."
TPers = unhinged, ill-informed and racist.
With any luck those using pick axes and shovels will apply them to Mr Jeremy and Mr Alpha Liberal first
I feel sorry for those dogs.
Wait. There were actual threats of violence and Obama didn't pressure local officials to send in the SWAT team?
What is this world coming to?
wv - hypersly: definitely not Obama.
Garage--the NEXT time you do that warn me in advance--I cannot afford a new keyboard
Michael Hasenstab, everything I posted there is fact.
Do you now deny that Town Hall meetings were interrupted by TPers shouting down elected representatives last year?
The fact is you guys think special rules apply to YOU. When YOU are angry it's OK to shout people down!
But if anybody else does it that's terrible.
I've heard figures somewhere around a million illegals coming in yearly.
In an economy of over 10% unemployment, high health care cost, deteriorating infrastructure and astronomic budget deficits, the borders status quo is simply the biggest governmental dereliction of duty ever.
A government that cannot protect its borders is no government at all.
Its more like a paper tiger.
Speaking of illegal immigrants my new Mexican Maid is coming today. She also cleans David Gergen's home, so there.
I fired the Buddhist because she started bringing her kids to the cleanings and I came home one day and the kids were playing with my computer, which is a Mac, natch. Also, my real estate broker said she did a terrible job and we needed to have it in ship shape for the selling of my loft which went for 30k over asking price, thank you.
Jeremy,
If I'm not mistaken wasn't that sent out by a teachers union official about Chris Christie a few weeks back?
So was the high ranking labor official wishing for the death of the governor or simply sending a stupid and formulaic joke about someone they don't like?
"90% of them are nothing more than racist, xenophobic rants against all people of color."
We hate Americans, and white people too. And you left out: homophobic, greedy, and stupid. See, we can handle your job here too. It's the easiest one.
Racism & Xenophobia on display, via the local tea baggers:
"Illegals are a protected class."
"Wave the flag of a foreign contry and threaten to attack and I'm inclined to tell you to go home."
"I am my lawn's own gardener."
"This pernicious, twisted logic about illegals has so permeated the lefts thinking that even Brown, all the way over there, calls it "bigotry"."
"What are all these fucking landscapers doing here?"
"The bigger the temper tantrum they throw the more the 'adults' in the country will wake up to the fact that we are in real danger."
Maybe somebody can explain why Jeremy is here.
He's a "regular", but he's never written anything interesting and seems miserable here.
Why not block him and spare him from his torment?
And where's the racial diversity in this political gathering that has been so often demanded here of tea partiers?
Jeremy: Where exactly in that Facebook page does it say ANYTHING about being related to the tea party? Oh yeah. It doesn't. And you have (are?) an even bigger asshole than I thought possible if you are concerned about somebody "teabagging assholes"! Maybe your bum is stretched from repeatedly having your head shoved so far up it?
"For icons on the left to assert that life isn't fair seems to undercut a great deal of their arguments for just about all of their policies."
The one thing I've repected is their motive to make life more fair. It's impossible, and efforts to play God can end up in catastrophe (see housing meltdown), but I thought their heart was in the right place. Now I don't know what to think.
Alpha--re shouting down elected officials--perhaps you havent read the first amendment--right to petition free speech and all of that inconvenient stuff-
grown up son, you embarass real liberals
Jeremy, that's not even a comeback, step it up man. If you want to play in the big leagues, grow up.
Who said this?
"You know, the unelected media bosses have far more power than any senator or congressman, and are far more alien to America than the British were at the time of the American Revolution. At least the British were of our own, Christian cultural heritage, while the non-Christian ethno-religious minority who dominates Hollywood sees itself as very distinct from the 98 percent of the rest of us.
Tea Party activists are true populists who see the powers that control international finance and the Federal Reserve as the biggest threats to American prosperity and freedom."
Why, no other than David Duke!
Wait, wait, don't tell me. David Duke is not racist, right?
The fact is you guys think special rules apply to YOU. When YOU are angry it's OK to shout people down!
That's not entirely true. What has happened is that a great deal of people on the right, who have either never publicly protested finally started playing by the same rules the left has been using for years (decades, actually). Part of the confusion is that the left, now in power, is used to being on the other side and doesn't know how to deal with it.
It's also a fact that while much ado about nothing is being made about rhetoric at Tea Party rallies, for the number of people involved, there have been virtually no incidents. I don't recall ANY, but I'm using virtually because I don't claim to be omniscient. For all of that, I don't hear any acknowledgments of that fact from liberal talking head, bloggers, or commentators here.
Shortly, I will be taking the rare clumbers to their monthly spa treatments so they are not disturbed while the Mexican cleans my loft. I will also be spaaing when the cleaners are at the house. I prefer not to see them.
The rare clumbers used to only have a spa treatment every two months but the Indian husband is fussy and they now stay at his house and he wants them bathed monthly. He won't let them up on his couch but when he goes to the bathroom I tell them to get on the couch.
Do you know he makes me wash my hands after every time I pet the rare clumbers?
"We will take up our shovels and pickaxes and we...we will use them against you! Believe that!"
Shovels and pickaxes?
What are they going to do, tunnel under us?
Those wascawwy iwwegal wabbits!
Be alert for unstable sidewalks!
Jayne Cobb: You are correct. I don't remember anything about that story having to do with tea partiers, however.
Alpha--David Duke is almost as big an idiot is you are--Whats your point
I can explain.
Jeremy comes here to talk about his dick and having people's balls in his mouth.
AL,
If I'm not mistaken David Duke also opposed the war in Iraq.
Congratulations that makes you an official supporter of David Duke, you racist bastard.
Come to think of it that makes sense given your decidedly poor opinion of non-whites.
A pick ax vs. a pitch fork could be interesting.
Liberals against the Arizona law:
Rubio
Bush
Rove
Whitman
Law enforcement officials from California to North Carolina.
Police chiefs from different U.S. cities said that if Arizona Immigration Law takes effect it will have "catastrophic" consequences for both communities and for law enforcement to perform functions requiring migration, the Spanish language Vida Nueva reports.
RDKraus--I suspect Jeremy has no operative male genitalia, thus his obscession with it
"will have "catastrophic" consequences for both communities and for law enforcement to perform functions requiring migration ...the Spanish language Vida Nueva reports."
I certainly hope so.
rdkraus - Sorry, little man, but it's the tea baggers who chose the name.
Maybe if they could read they would have researched the term before making it their moniker.
It does give you a pretty good idea of how fucking stupid they are.
I got yer Tea Party civility right here.
Spitting on Congressmen. (Yeah, yeah, I know. 'It's "spittle," not spit!")
Then there's the whole "these black Congressmen provoked these people by walking outside instead of in the underground tunnel!"
Really, nasty and idiotic.
I propose that Jeremy and Alpha let me break into their homes and raid the fridge, sleep in their beds and just do whatever I want whenever I want.
If they call the police that would only mean they are racists.
"Why, no other than David Duke!"
"They get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Why no other than Barack Obama.
Roger - You're too old to be talking about genitalia.
Get back to that hand and see if anything comes up.
Alpha: The "tree of liberty" quote is from Thomas Jefferson, not Tim McVeigh. So you think President Jefferson would have supported the tea party? I agree.
And just because David Duke says he likes the tea party doesn't mean the party agrees with him on ANYTHING. Because Ahmadinejad said he welcomed the election of Obama, does it mean he's a leader in the Democratic Party? Wait...maybe I don't want to hear that answer.
(PS-you're a couple days late on the tea party haters talking points...this Duke idea was trotted out on the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinal blogs a couple days ago.)
reader_iam,
It had nothing to do with the Tea Party (outside of their support for Christie) but it was by an official belonging to a decidedly left wing organization.
And if Jeremy can point to a facebook group with a stupid joke for a title as evidence of violent rhetoric on the right, then I can do the same to him and the left.
Granted I consider outrage over such lame attempt at humor to be idiotic, but I figure goose/gander.
Scott M said..."That's not entirely true. What has happened is that a great deal of people on the right, who have either never publicly protested finally started playing by the same rules the left has been using for years (decades, actually)."
OH...you POOR babies.
The liberals were protesting better than you...so you had to create the tea baggers so you could get your message out?
Did you consider teaching them how to spell or articulate a coherent message before sending them into the streets?
Between the obstructionist GOP, the tea baggers and the full on wing nuts...I can't decide who is the most ignorant.
Sorry Jeremy--I am old enough to have served in combat and have won my red badge of courage--I dont have the need to post anonymously on blogs to assert my manhood. and as for my genitalia, having had prostate surgery, I am now impotent--much to the chagrin of thousands of women throughout the country. but life goes on
and what is it with your rather twisted sexual fetish? not getting any at home? trying to hook up here?
I am a Teabagger! Maybe even stupid, racist, xenophobic, etc, etc.
But what has that got to do with the constitutional restraint of government, or do you get to pick who the constitution applies to? That seems bigoted and discriminatory.
Wow, AL, that is some fine detective work.
Hey, don't dictators seem more fond of Obama than Bush. Using your "logic", it means Barry must be a dictator.
Though I must ask why you spend such time following David Duke. He's not a relevant figure but you know hos stuff well. I'm betting you agree with him.
Here is more Tea Party civility for you.
The funniest part is the people complaining about taxes now, after Obama CUT taxes for anyone making under $250 k. Facts don't matter to these people.
I haven't read, in detail, the wording of this law, but from I have read and heard, I'm definitely weary of the way they did it. All a cop needs is a reasonable suspicion that someone's illegal.
It strikes me as a poor way of doing it. If they were going to make such a bold statement through legislation, which I think is what's really happening here, why not just make it a requirement that all stops by police (or home visits) require the person to show valid ID? Is it because that would be realistically unworkable? Probably.
The root problem here is, regardless of this law, the federal government has failed on it's legal requirement to protect it's several states. While not an organized armed incursion, the flood of illegal migrants puts severe strain on all local resources, whatever those may be.
In the interest of compromise, I would much rather see a complete lockdown on the border. After that, we can talk about amnesty for those here. That's a give and take on the issue. Not everyone is going to be thrilled, but everyone gets something.
Last, but not least, we've got to do away with anchor babies and chain migration. There's got to be a rational limit to these things.
Spitting on Congressmen. (Yeah, yeah, I know. 'It's "spittle," not spit!")
I suppose that's in the realm of defining what "is" is, without the malicious dishonesty.
Sarah Palin, Republican and Tea Party LEADER:
“Commonsense Conservatives & lovers of America: ‘Don’t Retreat, Instead – RELOAD!’”
The best thing about this law passing, aside from the fact that it highlighted the effects of the refusal of the fed. govt. to enforce the law, is the fact that it completely destroys the whole violent "meme" about the Tea Party. It reminded people of what real violence and threats look like.
Real violence looks like protesters physically attacking counter-protesters. Real threats look like stating that you will go after people with picks and shovels.
This coupled with the recent report that police have relaxed their security measures regarding tea party protesters pretty much puts the nail in the coffin for all but the true believers out there.
Jayne Cobb: I was backing you up on your point, not calling you out on it!
Alpha Liberal: Obama cut taxes in a way that anyone would notice? Are you sure? He is clearly going to raise the rate on dividends from 15% to 40% but I suppose that counts as a tax cut in a lefty universe.
I agree with ScottM--the quicker we eliminate the provision for anchor babies, the more this problem will go away--now I like babies for the most part, but when they are used as claim to resources, then I start getting a bit queasy
Jeremy
Every time you talk about testicles in your mouth, I'll let you know. Maybe we can cure you of that problem.
Meanwhile, the name Tea Party is a pretty good one. Ties right back in to the founding of the country and what we "used to be" about. Just because leftists like you got confused about that name and the testicles in your mouth, not my problem.
But I'm going to try to help you with yours.
reader_iam,
Sorry, I figured as much but decided that given the remarks by Jeremy and AL I should make myself clear.
I'm just always paranoid about being misread when I post.
" suppose that's in the realm of defining what "is" is, without the malicious dishonesty."
No, it isn't. And reasonable person knows the difference between a person who:
1) Deliberately spits on another person, or
2) Speaks in such a way that some spittle is accidentally flung.
Spit is not just a noun, it's a verb. It's a deliberate act that has meaning.
Spittle is not a verb. It is a noun, synonymous with saliva. Spittle is saliva which has been disbursed accidentally.
Nobody spit on any of these lying black Congressmen, and nobody called them "niggers."
The black Congressmen are simply lying.
Hey, Al, its been nice out several times since Obamacare.
Have the Dems ever walked across the Mall en masse since to vote on anything?
It's rule of lawn.
This is just so predictably hilarious.
Althouse could put up a topic: Meade and I Went To The Garden Center To Buy Petunias, and within ten minutes, Alpha and/or Jeremy would post about teabaggers, racism, Bush, yadda yadda yadda.
And some other troll would piss about Althouse making $1 bazillion dollars at the state teat and supporting Meade who shows no signs of heaving ever worked in his whole mooching life, and probably willfully gets sick just so he can use Althouse's expensive gov't-provided health insurance.
It's downright Seinfeldian.
*having, not heaving*
jayne_cobb - Do you consider bulls-eyes over the face of our President to be pretty funny, too?
And if you think the "joke" as you see it on Facebook is just goose/gander silliness...give the White House a call and tell them you think the President should die...and see how funny they think it is.
Michael Hasenstab said..."Althouse could put up a topic: Meade and I Went To The Garden Center To Buy Petunias, and within ten minutes, Alpha and/or Jeremy would post about teabaggers, racism, Bush, yadda yadda yadda"
No, but I would post a comment asking why you and others here give a rat's ass about what flowers they like...or even better...what's in their fucking refrigerator.
Do you idiots have lives of your own?
Do you really care what these two eat?
Seriously, Althouse could start another blog called "My Commenters Have ADD" and fill it with excerpts of Alpha's, Jeremy's,and Ritmo's comments.
I had a glass of red wine last night and the pinching of my morning loaf caused it too be a dark black.
A biochemist could explain that for you Titus- it's alimentary.
Are we sure this is what caused it?
I suspect that FB page was put up in an attempt to make conservatives look bad. Whereas in the case of that Bergen County (NJ) Education Association memo, the local union official made himself did it to himself.
Jayne: NP.
I agree that neither is worth getting particularly worked up over as an actual threat. And despite Chris' taking political advantage of an opponent's misstep (as well he should), I have an extremely hard time believing he didn't just laugh at it behind closed doors.
Ahh Jeremy--the prototypical anonymous bomb thrower--little man, tell you what--you can google me based on my information on this blog--when you grow the balls to do likewise, I might take you seriously--and no, son, dont want to suck your dick because I dont think you have one. Now go play with yourself watching sarah palin videos.
pathetic piece of shit and a coward to boot.
I haven't read, in detail, the wording of this law, but from I have read and heard, I'm definitely weary of the way they did it. All a cop needs is a reasonable suspicion that someone's illegal
Then maybe you should. It is only allowed to question identity only while being stopped for other legal reasons and then the suspicion that you may not be legally in the country. The law specifically forbids stopping people and demanding ID just for the suspicion of being illegal. They must be in the process of another illegal or suspicious activity.
I don't see what the BFD is about showing proof of citizenship or proof of identity.
I have to show my identity proof all the time. To cash a check, to rent a car, to use my credit card at Penny's, to open a bank account, if stopped for speeding or driving with a cracked windshield or the latest......a trailer ball obscuring a number on my license plate.
I have to show my ID and proof of insurance even when I'm not committing crimes. BFD
In addition, current Federal law, which is being totally ignored, requires that foreign nationals and immigrants who are legally here who are not yet citizens, must have proof of identity at all times.
It really is just a matter of obeying the laws that we already have on the books. Because the Federal government refuses to and obstructs the enforcement.....the States will have to take up the job.
But as others have pointed out....the liberals want to create a "special" class of people who don't have to obey our laws.
Or maybe Althouse could put Alpha's comments on a blog called: Oooh! I'm Sooo Angry I made a Doody in my Underoos!
By the way, the TPers hate government regulation. They think it makes us less free.
Only recently we had 29 miners die and now 11 oil workers in the big Gulf oil spill. And news just now on more mine workers now trapped in Kentucky.
Stronger and more effective safety regulations would have saved lives.
What would the TPers say to the widows and grieving family members to defend your opposition to regulations?
Shhhhh.......
Everybody-...if we're very, very quite Titus might finally open up and share some intimate details with us.
New "Hussein" Ham said..."Nobody spit on any of these lying black Congressmen, and nobody called them "niggers." The black Congressmen are simply lying.
And of course, you base this on what the tea baggers say.
How would you possibly know what was or was not said...or done?
You don't.
Stop sucking up to your fellow tea baggers.
"Have the Dems ever walked across the Mall en masse since to vote on anything?"
I don't know. Have there been many historic votes in the Capitol surrounded by full of angry and hateful protesters since then?
NO.
Ah I see the two biggest racists around, Alpha and Jeremy have showed up to defend threats of leftwing violence.
New Ham:
Nobody spit on any of these lying black Congressmen, and nobody called them "niggers."
The black Congressmen are simply lying..
Fucking priceless. How about all the white Congressmen, Democratic and Republican, who accepted what these "black Congressmen" said?
"If John Lewis said it happened, that's good enough for me"
- Rep. Mike Pence (Republican -- and WHITE!)
Alpha went to the Million Man March.
They wouldn't let him in.
HoosierDaddy, I haven't read all of Jeremy's posts, but I know I have not defended one threat if violence.
So, once again, you lie.
NEW YORK, April 29 (UPI) -- Seven in 10 U.S. adults support arresting people who can't prove they're in the United States legally, a poll about Arizona's new immigration law indicated.
By the way, the TPers hate government regulation. They think it makes us less free.
Absolutely wrong. Anarchists hate government regulation. Rational people know that a civil society requires laws. Laws are a voluntary submission of some personal liberty to the state in order to make society function.
Anarchists want no laws or government, or, the extreme right. Dictators want all control, or, the extreme left.
Stronger and more effective safety regulations would have saved lives.
Actually there were regulations in place to prevent that mine incident Alpha. The government cited them rather than, you know, actually do something about it.
But hey its kind of like illegal immigration. I mean we already have laws on the books to combat illegal immigration but like mining regulation, the government just looked the other way so we just need more regulation.
You guys are really a living parody.
Q: What is the Alpha doing when he holds his hands tightly over his ears?
A: Trying to hold on to a thought.
Fucking priceless. How about all the white Congressmen, Democratic and Republican, who accepted what these "black Congressmen" said?
Wow...one politician standing up for another politician.
Color me surprised.
No responses on the government regulation question?
How would you defend your opposition to government regulations to the widows of the coal miners and oil workers?
Would you insult them?
Here's my proposal.
Make EVERYONE carry identification papers. If you don't have your papers, it's a crime. First offense, small fine. Second offense, big fine. Third offense, jail with work release. Fourth offense, jail--no work release.
Have random check of everyone: guys with rakes and shovels, darker skinned women with anglo looking kids in tow, yuppie university students, legislators, sherrifs, governors. Everyone.
This should eliminate the discrimination objection, right? And certainly no one else would object.
Q: Why does Jeremy live in L.A.?
A: It's the only city that is easy enough for him to spell.
This law is a perfect example of why states rights are important. This will be an experiment. It will work. Illegals will leave AZ in droves. They will go to neighboring states and we will see what is most beneficial: open borders or enforcement. My state, California, will be further inundated, bankrupted, unemployed and angered, but I welcome the experiment to clarify the issue. Many don't want to find out the truth.
My second loaf was just "consummated".
This is my second after coffee loaf which tends to be more soupy, more pungent, more immediate and yet more easy to flush.
It also required many more wipes.
Now I am ready to go to the spa and feel confident when receiving the enema.
Alpha I'm glad you brought that incident up.
Here is a good quote from Representative Emmanuel Cleaver in The Kansas City Star:
The president and members of Congress are supposed to lead the band, not just blame them for the shrill sound of the music. We must become the national example of decorum.
Democratic members of Congress must retreat from the notion that all Tea Party members are crazed hooligans. To accept and push that view is not only divisive, it is diabolical. As an African American, I have been caught in the net of the, “they all are” mentality.
kansascity.com
BTW- That should be the same in this situation.
How do liberals brain cells die?
Lonely.
Titus-
You really should invest in a bidet.
Do you think Boston would let you?
"How would you defend your opposition to government regulations to the widows of the coal miners and oil workers? "
Mandatory helmets in cars would save far more lives. What's the goal?
No responses on the government regulation question?
See my 11:20 post. Or maybe you did and don't want to respond.
Jeremy and Alpha: You both seem to believe that the N word was hurled at John Lewis on the famous march through the crowd. You each seem to be in need of some money. Why not get the $100,000 reward that Andrew Briebart is offering for video or recording evidence of the event actually taking place? The reward has been available for a few weeks, unclaimed of course, and is just waiting for guys like you who could probably use a 100K payday. All you would have to do is contact Lewis' people, the guys walking with him, that had their cameras on at the time. 100K, boys, ready for the taking from the evil right wing racist teabagging liars you so despise. Best of luck.
These are the ones indoctrinated in that Aztlan nonsense and fronted by groups like ANSWER. The Anchoress had a piece about how the Demos might use immigration the way they did in '06. After this round, I don't think it'll work.
AlphaLiberal said...
You don't seem to be paying attention to the TPers.
* Shouting down elected representatives trying to meet with constituents.
* Equating the President with Hitler, Nazism, Communism.
* Giving a voice to white resentment.
* Making blatantly racial attacks on the President, time and time again.
* Echoing rhetoric from mass murderer Timothy McVeigh about "the tree of liberty."
* Bringing actual weapons to political rallies.
Terrible people on the verge of armed insurrection. Call SWAT!
And now there is new conclusive polling research showing TPers foster greater racial resentment than normal Americans:
How true.
They really do believe what they're told to say.
WV "mandic" Redundant.
Jeremy, bullseyes over the Presidents face qualify as moderate rhetoric for the Left from 2001 to 2008.
And, AL, you admit they did that to try and generate a reaction? What the fuck are the Dems, eight year olds?
And John Lewis has, thankfully, been shown to be a fraud.
Actually I would like to see the two racists, Alpha and Jeremy explain why millions of illegal aliens from Mexico should be given a free pass while others from Europe, Asia and Africa must follow the immigration laws if they wish to live in the US.
Seems to me racists Alpha and Jeremy support discriminating against Euros, Asians and Africans in favor of Mexicans. This I find troubling.
@Michael H.:
"The hilarious thing is that Jeremy and Alpha actually believe what they post here has credibility."
Perhaps, although Jeremy and AlphaSockPuppet have different personas.
Jeremey's writes like he was a mouth-breathing North Korean propaganda drone. Or perhaps a leftist version of Fred Phelps -- all polemics, all hate, frightened, desperately hammering a world he can't recognize into a template he can't change.
AlphaSockPuppet's persona is more like someone who just phones in his comments because someone is paying him to do it; a loyal UAW business agent with nothing to do, sitting at his desk in the international because his local drove their last auto parts supplier into the ground.
They are both gainsaying liars who are about making noise for noise's sake, because they think it makes them important. Who knows. Maybe it does. They can certainly dominate this party by taking a dump in the punchbowl. But to try to cull some rational nuggets out of their horseshit is pointless. When they show up, I usually leave.
HoosierDaddy, Massey Energy, led by that Tea Party bankroller and leader Don Blankenship, was fighting the fines and regulations at the mine that claimed those mine workers.
Blankenship gave a million dollars to bankroll the Tea Parties. THAT is who you are standing with.
Any effort to improve and enforce the safety regulations is OPPOSED by the Republicans and Tea Party types.
Stunning hypocrisy.
Titus-consummated is probably the wrong word-it doesn't mean consumed and "ated".
An ounce of enforcement is worth a pound of regulation.
MSNBC's Contessa Brewer has repeatedly expressed with outrage the fact that Arizona's new law makes being an illegal immigrant against the law.
That, I fear, is the left's view.
Do they not know the definition of "ILLEGAL"?
Alpha-
The Tea Party isn't even a registered party in any state is it?
I wonder how all of these polls are finding respondents who say they are members of the Tea Party-in what state did they register as tea party?
(btw-It's a lot of work to get on state ballots as a third party candidate.)
Don Blankenship of Massey Energy has bankrolled the Tea Party rallies.
The same Don Blankenship who sent a memo to his mine managers to tell them to sacrifice safety in order to "run coal."
Massey’s Blankenship Fought Regulators, Town, Maid as Coal CEO
“If any of you have been asked by your group presidents, your supervisors, engineers or anyone else to do anything other than run coal (i.e. -- build overcasts, do construction jobs, or whatever) you need to ignore them and run coal,” Blankenship wrote. “This memo is necessary only because we seem not to understand that coal pays the bills.”
Overcasts are ventilation controls, Stanley said. The widows claimed in the suit that the memo showed a company policy to downgrade safety in favor of production.
Don't laugh. If the illegal chicken-pluckers manage to meet up with the illegal driveway-sealers it's tar and feathers for everybody.
Don Blankenship, speaking at a Labor Day Tea Party rally:
"We also endure a Mine Safety and Health Administration that seeks power over coal miners versus improving their safety and their health. As someone who has overseen the mining of more coal than anyone else in the history of central Appalachia, I know that the safety and health of coal miners is my most important job. I don’t need Washington politicians to tell me that, and neither do you. But I also know — I also know Washington and state politicians have no idea how to improve miner safety. The very idea that they care more about coal miner safety than we do is as silly as global warming."
Now that President Obama is the one ramping up unmanned drone strikes, holding suspects without trial, bolstering the Patriot Act, shipping tens of thousands of American kids overseas to fight, etc. the hatred that fuels the Left needs a new target. It's us.
I say keep it up. The Left will drive more people off with their spite and dishonesty than they ever bring in to the fold. It's one more reason free speech is so great, we get to see these horrible people for who they really are.
Chicken? Did someone say chicken? Isn't that the latest Republican "idea" for health care finance?
CHICKENS!?
What's interesting is the Dem leadership, the Repub leadership, and the Libertarian leadership all hate this law. Nationwide, their bases all want the illegals out.
I see Alpha doesn't want to address why illegal aliens from Mexico should be given a pass over Europeans, Asians and Africans who have to follow the rules to become citizens.
Obviously Alpha is racist in his preference.
As an AZ resident I can say this demonstration (and counter demonstration) was pretty peaceful. We have experience with this since we regularly have such demonstrations and counter demonstrations.
The one irony of that woman's statement is that by her accent she's clearly not a Mexican immigrant so I would assume any ax or pick that she pick's up would be done in a "legal" manner.
Martha:
"MSNBC's Contessa Brewer has repeatedly expressed with outrage the fact that Arizona's new law makes being an illegal immigrant against the law. "
Uh, I don't think so. The outrage is that people, brown people, are being told they need to carry with them ID papers or birth certificates wherever they go to prove they are American citizens.
But I suspect you knew that and thought a dishonest distortion would support your position better.
"Any effort to improve and enforce the safety regulations is OPPOSED by the Republicans and Tea Party types.
Stunning hypocrisy."
I think conservatives understand liberal positions pretty well, but liberal really have little clue about conservatives.
Less regulation is a conservative position, not zero regulation, but limited. There is no regulation short of keeping men out of mines entirely that would prevent these very rare disasters. It's not hypocrisy, it's balance.
Those miners and their family knew the risks and they were willing to take them. Most would do it again, because the risk is very low. They were all more likely to die outside the mine than in it. There will be more regulation and there will be more deaths, in fact every single minor will die and so will you and me. Life has risks and regulation will never be enough for those who want to live without it.
Hoosier Daddy:
"I see Alpha doesn't want to address why illegal aliens from Mexico should be given a pass over Europeans, Asians and Africans who have to follow the rules to become citizens."
I don't. I never said as much and don't know of anyone who said as much.
This is your strawman argument. As with all strawman arguments, you are debating with yourself. In reality, it's a for of mental masturbation.
So pardon me if I look away.
Isn't it sweet to see AL so concerned about the coal miners he regularly calls hicks and racists.
Anyway to answer AL's question:
There's a point at which regulations put companies out of business. We could all be driving tanks and have no traffic deaths but nobody could afford it, which would put the car companies out of business.
I don't follow the minutia of coal mining regulations (and I'm pretty sure you don't either) so I can't say how much this would cost them or even how much this is needed. However, at some point industries have to say enough is enough and that some risks are necessary to remain competitive.
Now, unless you have statistics about the rate of coal mining incidents in the US and how much this would actually affect them I can't make a remark one way or another about the wisdom of such rules (I refuse to push sweeping rule changes based on unrelated tragedies).
I will however say that I find it rather ghoulish of you to be attempting to use the tragic events surrounding people you routinely insult to score political points.
AL, shouldn't you be upset over Obamas OSHA not doing enough?
And shall we delve into the deep ties between Obama and Goldman Sachs
"There is no regulation short of keeping men out of mines entirely that would prevent these very rare disasters. It's not hypocrisy, it's balance."
Nonsense. Tea Party funder and leader Don Blankenship fought the regulations, told his managers to run coal instead of improving safety and did not provide safe work conditions.
You should really think twice about blaming the workers for going into a mine while shrugging off the unsafe conditions by the Tea Party Leader and Funder Don Blankenship.
I'm hoping there are some journalists left in this country who will examine the mine safety record the Bush-Cheney Administration. Unsafe conditions built up over those years and we've seen more accidents and more deaths.
Good news. The law is already working.
Illegal immigrants plan to leave over Ariz. law
. . . Many day laborers like Diaz say they will leave Arizona because of the law, which also makes it a crime to be in the U.S. illegally and directs police to question people about their immigration status if there is reason to suspect they are illegal immigrants. . . .
Standing near potted trees and bushes for sale at a Home Depot in east Phoenix, Diaz, 35, says he may follow three families in his neighborhood who moved to New Mexico because of the law. He says a friend is finding plenty of work in Dallas.
Diaz says he has too much to lose by staying — he's supporting a wife and infant son back home in Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, across the border from El Paso, Texas.
"They depend on me to survive," he says. "I'm not going to wait for police to come and arrest me."
Jose Armenta, a 33-year-old illegal immigrant from Mexico's western coast, is already planning to move to Utah within the next 20 days because of a combination of the economy and the new law.
From NRO among others.
Whatever law we want to have, shouldn't Americans decide by legislation, not have the "law" decided de facto by the people who are breaking in?
Yup!
Coal mine deaths spike upward under Bush-Cheney.
From a 2007 story in USA Today.
And you guys want to return Bush-Cheney policies to America. no thanks!
I don't. I never said as much and don't know of anyone who said as much.
This is your strawman argument. As with all strawman arguments, you are debating with yourself. In reality, it's a for of mental masturbation.
Then maybe you can explain why illegal aliens residing in the US should not be subject to the law. Explain to the rest of the class why illegals coming across the border should not be stopped, should not be questioned about legal residency and should not be deported when found.
Every other person from Europe, Asia and Africa who wants to live here must follow the legal requirements to attain citizenship yet you seem to think that illegal aliens from Mexico and Central America are not required to follow those rules and attempts to enforce those rules are racist.
That's called a preference Alpha, one which you seem to have which by definition makes you a racist.
Thanks for showing your true colors.
RDKraus, the other news is that Mexico is a source for a lot of tourism to Arizona. And they are cutting back quickly. Hotels and resorts already report steep declines in business.
I, for one, will avoid the police state of Arizona.
The new Tea Party cry: "Show us your papers!"
President Barack Obama on Friday called for Congress to continue to work toward immigration reform, saying the failure to act on a federal level has led to "misguided" efforts to curb illegal immigration, including in Arizona.
Obama sounds more like Chavez everyday.. calling the will of the people of Arizona "misguided".
Compare North Dakota and Arizona:
-both "Red" states
-both border states
So why does the AZ legislature feel compelled to pass this law and not North Dakota?
(This is a serious question)
Betalib, spare the fucking crocodile tears you second rate tool.
You're no more concerned about safe conditions in an inherently unsafe environment anymore than you're concerned about making a credible argument. I guess you were appropriately outraged at Clinton for allowing "diplomacy" to kill over 500,000 Iraqi civilians during his two terms eh?
Imagine if the Arizona Legislature had passed a law to arrest hardworking Tea Party people and turn them over for deportation.
Hoosier Daddy flogs his strawman:
"Then maybe you can explain why illegal aliens residing in the US should not be subject to the law. "
I never said that. Not once. Immigration law is a federal law.
I said the law in Arizona is wrong.
If you can't see the difference I can't help you.
And, I do think the employers should face sanctions. You guys prefer to protect big business and beat up on the poor but who is giving them jobs?
Fellow conservatives.
Why not make everyone carry id papers?
If it's a good idea for some, why not everyone?
Don't people understand the purely political (i.e. non-racist) connotations of holding May Day rallies in the US?
May 1 is Labo(u)r Day in most of the world outside the US and Canada, in honor of the Haymarket Martyrs.
Alpha, you can do what you like. I salute you for, at least, being able to come here and NOT talk about testicles in your mouth.
I don't love this new law either. The problem has been caused by the feds, Clinton, Bush, now Obama, all not enforcing our borders, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD DOES. It should be up to us to decide who comes in.
We don't need a single new law to fix the basic problem which is allocating Federal resources to the border to stop the invasion.
Then, when that's done, we can start debating what to do about the illegals here already.
"You guys prefer to protect big business and beat up on the poor but who is giving them jobs?"
And you prefer putting them on the public dole, since hiring them is wrong
and catching and deporting them is too. What's left amnesty and open borders?
Imagine if the Arizona Legislature had passed a law to arrest hardworking Tea Party people and turn them over for deportation.
And if those hardworking Tea Party people were foreign citizens living in the US illegally you'd have a very good analogy. But since they aren't you once again showed your lack of intelligence for everyone to see.
Alpha
I repeat. This problem was caused by the Feds abdicating their responsibilities under the Const to protect us from invaders.
Do you support a Federal fence.
Until you do, STFU.
The outrage is that people, brown people, are being told they need to carry with them ID papers or birth certificates wherever they go to prove they are American citizens.
Wrong. They are to prove that they are here LEGALLY.
Not necessarily to prove that they are citizens.
Norwegian and Russian foreign nationals are also supposed to abide by the same laws. You want an exemption for skin color? Racist!!
This requirement is part of the Federal law already.
I never said that. Not once. Immigration law is a federal law.
Which is not being enforced.
I said the law in Arizona is wrong.
Perhaps then again, that's what happens when Federal law is not being enforced.
And, I do think the employers should face sanctions. You guys prefer to protect big business and beat up on the poor but who is giving them jobs?
Whose you guys? Nice strawman there yourself Alpha but when ICE started raiding businesses and arresting illegals for deportation, it was liberals like yourself screaming Racism! Police State! You're breaking up families!
Yes or no Alpha, do you support enforcement of the US border and deportation of anyone living in the US illegally? If not, then please explain why it is ok to ignore immigration laws.
Thank you.
And if those hardworking Tea Party people were foreign citizens living in the US illegally you'd have a very good analogy.
So you agree that, unlike illegal aliens being threatened with deportation, the Tea Party people, secure in their place in America, have no reason for anger or threatening speech. Which makes the professor's exhortation rather dopey.
Fellow conservatives.
Why not make everyone carry id papers?
If it's a good idea for some, why not everyone?
Generally, we do.
It is called a Driver's License or if you don't drive you can get an offical DMV Identity card.
Next?
Want to try driving without a license and tell the Cop if you get stopped that it is a violation of the Constitution to force you to carry identification? That they can't make you carry "papers"?
Let us know how that works out for you.
Nearly 100% of us can identify ourselves right now. The problem comes from accepting illegals in the ranks of licensed drivers, bank account holders, mortgage holders, etc. There is no way to tell who is illegal now because the documents are not reliable or even try to be. Any new document would be the same.
The solution is on-line I.D. Any employer or cop or mortgage company, or anyone should be able to pull up your SS# and see a picture with name only in 1 second. If the database is limited to just that info and only includes citizens then I see no new problem, but a lot of old ones solved.
The problem with this will be mission creep.
And where's Jeremy with his big giant e-peen?
I, for one, don't know what the fuck I would do without people like him who have so much time to show such genuine concern for my social life and how I choose to exercise my first ammendment rights.
I too understand why Jeremy is so angry. The mouthbreather's fear of a Teabagger is righteous.
Comrade X said:
"What's interesting is the Dem leadership, the Repub leadership, and the Libertarian leadership all hate this law. Nationwide, their bases all want the illegals out."
Yeah I noticed that too. However, I noticed the vulnerable pols like McCain are in full support of the AZ law.
fls floats this one by: "Imagine if the Arizona Legislature had passed a law to arrest hardworking Tea Party people and turn them over for deportation."
Well, if they were breaking the law and weren't citizens, then I don't see a problem.
No wonder you're a "former" law student.
The problem has been caused by the feds, Clinton, Bush, now Obama, all not enforcing our borders
The problem has been caused by white Americans who go to Home Depot to hire illegal day laborers who are standing by the potted plants.
Many day laborers like Diaz say they will leave Arizona because of the law,...
Standing near potted trees and bushes for sale at a Home Depot in east Phoenix
Just say "No hay trabajo."
Alpha: the Arizona immigration law is supported by a majority of both Republicans AND DEMOCRATS in Arizona. How much do you have to contort to try to make this a tea party issue?!?
FLS: The new law may well deport tea partiers, and people supporting ANY OTHER party who are in AZ illegally! That's the point: it upholds established Federal immigration law without regard for political party, gender, race, or sexual persuasion. Don't like the law? Get Congress to change it. But don't ask law enforcement to ignore it!
AL,
2006 was a fairly bad year for coal miners; but the funny thing about statistics is that they can be warped rather easily when taken out of context.
Look here Here
Coal mining deaths:
2003: 30 deaths
2004: 28 deaths
2005: 23 deaths
2006: 47 deaths
2007: 34 deaths
2008: 30 deaths
2009: 18 deaths
There was a short spike in 2006, which promptly fell back to about the same level it was at prior (and then a record low in 2009). This suggests that your spike was nothing more than a bad year.
Even looking at the article you linked to it suggests that one of two things (although most likely a mix) was the cause of the spike: a record setting level of coal being mined or a drop in inspectors.
Neither of the reasons proffered included anything relating to regulations you claim. In fact the article goes on to point to a few regulations put into place by Bush.
No wonder you're a "former" law student.
Because I could spot the issue presented in the post?
That's a fairly elementary skill.
"Many day laborers like Diaz say they will leave Arizona because of the law,...
Standing near potted trees and bushes for sale at a Home Depot in east Phoenix"
Yes, he's leaving Arizona for California.
The problem has been caused by white Americans who go to Home Depot to hire illegal day laborers who are standing by the potted plants
This IS a part of the problem and the people and businesses (especially) who hire illegals, pay under the table in cash, don't pay the proper taxes and undercut the wages of all others: should also be fined and jailed for repeat offenses.
Happy?
fls misses. Yet. Once. Again. "...aliens being threatened with deportation, the Tea Party people, secure in their place in America, have no reason for anger or threatening speech. Which makes the professor's exhortation rather dopey."
No, what's dopey is your non-sequitur sprinkled with a little leftist fantasy about violent Tea Partiers.
Who knew that the Libs really considered all those Policman's Union members racists, just itching to hassle a fellow citizen.
If that's what they really think, maybe we should start eliminating a lot of those positions. I'd like to see the Dems campaign on that.
fls flails wildly: "The problem has been caused by white Americans who go to Home Depot to hire illegal day laborers who are standing by the potted plants."
Because those white Americans are the ones making the illegals swim, run and jump.
Damn you're stupid.
what's dopey is your non-sequitur sprinkled with a little leftist fantasy about violent Tea Partiers.
I never realized -- at least some commenters can't be arsed even to read a two line post -- they just come here to spew.
So you agree that, unlike illegal aliens being threatened with deportation, the Tea Party people, secure in their place in America, have no reason for anger or threatening speech.
Or because the Tea Party is concerned with out of control government spending and crippling national debt and not deportation.
Which makes the professor's exhortation rather dopey.
Actually your inability to make a logical comparison makes you look even more dopey than I thought possible. Actually that's not fair. I'll just chalk it up to senility or substance abuse.
Well there is this from Andrew Mccarthy @NRO:
There are three relevant gradations of contact between a police officer and a person: non-custodial, brief detention, and arrest. The non-custodial context refers generally to any incidental interaction between a police officer and an individual — including those initiated by the individual. A police officer does not need suspicion in order to ask a person a question, but the person is not required to answer and the officer has no lawful authority to detain a person, even fleetingly, absent "reasonable suspicion."
Brief detentions are known in the law as "Terry stops" — thanks to the famous Supreme Court case of Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968). Under Terry, a police officer may only detain a person if the officer has reasonable, articulable suspicion of criminal activity. This standard is not met by a hunch or a generalized suspicion — a cop who says to himself, "Those look like Mexicans, they must be up to no good," does not make the grade. Instead, the officer must be able to articulate specific facts which, together with the logical inference to be drawn from those facts, reasonably suggest that criminal activity has occurred or is imminent. Courts are deferential to the judgment of police officers — the standard is not what any person would think of the facts observed but what an experienced cop acting reasonably and responsibly would think. But there must be specific, describable indicia of criminal activity.
btw-I've been banned from many blogs for being too supposedly pro-illegal immigration.
Polipundit, and the ever lovely Charles Johnson's place.....
I just love how Liberals are all into Charles now after years of him sliming all Muslims and all Mexican Americans.
whatever.
So-I'm still not sure about this AZ law. I haven't read up enough on it.
But-I thought I would throw Andrew McCarthy's point in-because I think he would say that-
former law student's analogy of hard working Tea Partiers getting arrested-is at best a mischaracterization.
fls: "Because I could spot the issue presented in the post?
That's a fairly elementary skill."
If you actully spotted it, then you might have a point. Your response however, doesn't indicate that you grasped any point whatsoever as evidenced by the failure of your broken analogy to address the point.
You flipping burgers now?
fls
I agree, a part of the problem is American hiring illegals. Can you and I agree that the hiring party should be heavily fined and the illegal picked up and deported?
fls - I spew at commenters who can't make a coherent point or publicly display their tortuous logic. You do both with reckless abandon, which is why you're so goddamn fun.
Happy?
America needs a cheap, compliant workforce. Illegals can't complain about pay or working conditions unless they want to be shipped back home, or detained indefinitely. This law should make illegals more fearful than ever.
If the law makes illegals fearful enough to stay the hell out of Arizona, then the cost of roofing, fencing, landscaping, restaurant meals, and agriculture will go up. I have no problem with paying Americans a living wage to do work.
The economy of Arizona should improve because money will be kept within the state, not wired to the folks back home. The workforce will match the available work, which dropped during the Great Recession.
But the idea that a physical barrier could stop the workings of supply and demand is frankly ludicrous.
America needs a cheap, compliant workforce.
Back in my yout that was called part time work readily filled with teenagers or the non-ambitious who seemed to have no problems winging it on minimum wage.
If the law makes illegals fearful enough to stay the hell out of Arizona, then the cost of roofing, fencing, landscaping, restaurant meals, and agriculture will go up. I have no problem with paying Americans a living wage to do work.
Good. Then you have no issue with the law.
But the idea that a physical barrier could stop the workings of supply and demand is frankly ludicrous.
Not ludicrous at all. A physical barrier dramatically lowered the number of Palestinian suicide bombers able to cross into Israel. And let's face it, as motivated as our illegal aliens are, they're nowhere near as motivated as a jihadist with visions of dead Jews dancing in his head.
America needs a cheap, compliant workforce.
Really!?
I think we had that one time...it was called slavery.
None of the partiers - except perhaps their corrupt leaders - are smart enough to handle this issue in the correct way.
The way isn't to highlight lone nuts like the lady on the video.
The way to handle this correctly is as I'm doing in all of my Arizona posts. I'm going after people who have actual power, and doing it in an intellectual way.
The partiers aren't capable of taking on people intellectually, and they don't even understand the benefits of taking on people intellectually. They've consistently shown themselves to be the single dumbest political group I have ever seen.
P.S. If you disagree, go read my coverage, and then compare it to what you've read from others. Don't trust any replies to this unless they also demonstrate that they've actually read my coverage.
@Jeremy 11:09
This is almost too easy and one of thousands Googled up with ease, including this hit piece.
Well, I suppose lefties never:
Show their ID at airports
Show their ID to police if they are pulled over in traffic
Show their ID to a 19 year old behind the WalMart counter
Show their ID to Immigration when coming into the country
Show their ID to cash a check
Show their ID to use a credit card
Show their ID
Look, I don't like it either, but the leftie solution to illegal immigration is more illegal immigration.
Uh-oh, Lonewacko's got his tinfoil hat on too tight again.
Dust Bunny Queen said...
America needs a cheap, compliant workforce.
Really!?
I think we had that one time...it was called slavery.
Between bailouts, taxes, ZeroCare, cap & trade, and 'reform' legislation, the Demos are in the process of supplying a new one - take a look at the U-6. Of course, Gallup has it about 4 points higher.
@ Royal Chicken
My lawn mower is a goat and a family of mule deer.
Yes, I am an ungulate elitist.
It would be disingenuous for conservatives to suggest there is no "split" (or better put, "differences of opinion") regarding immigration policy on the right.
Prime examples here and here
It's funny that there is an actual debate among conservatives going on now over whether they should tell the truth or not.
It's the “epistemic closure” debate.
Really, what they are debating is how Orwellian they should be. Have we always been at war with Eurasia? Is war really peace?
The American conservative movement now resembles Maoism more than anything American.
They own the pick axes and the shovels?
Well ok then. We own the gun stores and the prisons.
Good luck with that.
@FLS:"The problem has been caused by white Americans who go to Home Depot to hire illegal day laborers who are standing by the potted plants."
How about BO making sure that E-verify was dropped from the "Stimulus" Bill?
The problem is a mendacious federal government not 'white' employers.
Border guards, schools, social services, hospitals can't ask about national origin but the employer must..give me a break.
You know AL is grasping at straws when he needs to claim epistemic closure.
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