April 29, 2010
"We will not stop! We will take up our shovels and pickaxes and we...we will use them against you! Believe that!"
Imagine if this level of anger and threatening speech had come from the Tea Party people?
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285 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 285 of 285You know it's great that we have teh Tea Parties, but in the end it's still about the "silent majority". They see these violent illegals demonstrating in streets and will vote against Democrats.
More "liberals" against the new racist law:
Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, who has been a cop for 52 years, says it will definitely lead to racial profiling. He told local TV station KGUN9 that the law is “racist,” “digusting,” and “unnecessary,” and he won’t enforce it.
Dupnik said that there’s no way to enforce it without doing so; the “lawful contact” provision will become nothing but a “flimsy excuse” to target certain people:
“If I tell my people to go out and look for A, B, and C, they’re going to do it. They’ll find some flimsy excuse like a tail light that’s not working as a basis for a stop, which is a bunch of baloney.
Another high-profile law enforcement official who has condemned what Arizona is doing is former Bush Homeland Security chief Tom Ridge, who told the AP yesterday that “he’s uncomfortable with Arizona’s new immigration law, saying it allows police to question people without probable cause.
Doug Smith said..."They see these violent illegals demonstrating in streets and will vote against Democrats."
Yeah, right.
Of course there are those who will vote FOR the Democrats because of the law...you know...people of color?
Hispanics.
Duh.
Problem with violent implications in public remarks on the right...it has already happened, spoken by a Tea Party regular, Sarah Palin.
The good Mz Palin says "arms" (..e.g., guns) are equivalent to ballots (..e.g.votes) and for "patriots" to never back down, yada yada.
I'm sorry, I am about a "right wing" as I can get,okay, but Palin embarrasses me. I'll not associate with any group associated with her.
I am always curious as to what color hispanics actually are. Hispanic is an ethnicity and not a color. This definitional issue was resolved by the census between the 1990 and 2000 census. Now I am not sure what the right answer is, but at least the counting proce3eds from the census definition.
The good Mz Palin says "arms" (..e.g., guns) are equivalent to ballots (..e.g.votes) and for "patriots" to never back down, yada yada.
Cite?
"........but Palin embarrasses me. I'll not associate with any group associated with her."
You don't need her, you can embarrass yourself. Just re-read your post.
Dougie -
Midland, Texas - Sarah Palin: “Take up your arms’ means voting.”
LarsPorsena - I don't think Princess Sarah can hear you sucking up.
Maybe if you were to call?
LarsPorcena...I am not embarrassed a bit by what I said. My background with Palin goes back about 4 years. And yours?
She's an empty skirt with a big mouth.
Roger J. said..."I am always curious as to what color hispanics actually are."
Geeee, Rog...probably all kinds of different shades of color.
Some are dark brown, some much lighter in color. Some are actually white.
I think the ones most of the tea baggers here are referring to are those that can be readily identified as at least probably being Hispanic...you know...so they can be questioned.
What percentage of those who are extremely light skinned or even white...do YOU think will undergo questioning...versus those who are darker skinned?
Not that it's racial profiling...
Aridog--you may have confused Ms Palin with Mr Jeremy--the description matches
You don't need her, you can embarrass yourself. Just re-read your post.
"She's an empty skirt with a big mouth."
QED
I think the ones most of the tea baggers here are referring to are those that can be readily identified as at least probably being Hispanic...you know...so they can be questioned.
Kind of like when the clerk in the liquor store cards someone who looks like they're under 21.
Guess that makes those who follow underage drinking laws ageists.
"Racial Profiling...." I am sure that this will not suprise our resident liberals, but my prediliction is that racial profiling as the advantage of being cost effective. Two people get on an airplane; one of which is distinctly arabic, a young man with a beard and wearing a thobe. the other is an ederly caucasian who speaks with a norwegian dialict. In an era with limited resources who should get pulled out for further examination?
Racial or other types of profiling are a very good initial screen and should continue to be used by law enforcement. as always, others may disagree.
"Two people get on an airplane; one of which is distinctly arabic, a young man with a beard and wearing a thobe. the other is an ederly caucasian who speaks with a norwegian dialict. In an era with limited resources who should get pulled out for further examination?"
In accordance with current TSA guidelines, the Norwegian gets the cavity search. If you think I'm being facetious, you haven't been flying lately.
Lars--I am off to the bahamas for two weeks starting this saturday--I will see how it goes! :)
Princess Sarah...describing Glenn Princess Sarah describing Glenn Beck:
"Self-taught, he's become America's professor of common sense, sharing earnestly sought knowledge with an audience hungry for truth."
An ex-disc jockey, drug addict, alcoholic, with one college theology class under his belt before flunking out...providing "earnestly sought knowledge."
Good lord...
Roger J:
Bon voyage!!!
Those damn norwiegans -- reeking of lutefish and flying airplanes into the world trade centers--scurrilous lot they are
In accordance with current TSA guidelines, the Norwegian gets the cavity search.
Well if I was to invoke the logic of Jeremy I would argue that you Norwegians deserve extra scrutiny for acts of rape, pillage and murder of your Viking past.
LarsPorsena said...In accordance with current TSA guidelines, the Norwegian gets the cavity search. If you think I'm being facetious, you haven't been flying lately."
I do fly on a regular basis and you're lying through what few teeth you still have in your pointy little head.
Provide the TSA "guidelines" you refer to.
And please assume I spelled Norwegians correctly!
Hoosier Daddy said..."I would argue that you Norwegians deserve extra scrutiny for acts of rape, pillage and murder of your Viking past."
The Vikings don't compare to those God loving Christian Crusaders.
Ever consider taking a history course, Corn Cob?
Hoosier Daddy said..."Kind of like when the clerk in the liquor store cards someone who looks like they're under 21."
Yeah, that's it, Corn Cob.
Pulling people over based on their color, to make sure they're American citizens is the same as carding someone trying to buy beer.
The whole point of the police who are against the law is just that: who exactly will they be stopping and questioning...other than those who "look" like they "might" be Hispanic? And what is the criteria for the questioning?
Driving a car? Walking in the park? Standing outside a convenience store?
No.
It doesn't have to be based on any suspicion of wrongdoing or actual crimes in progress...will be based strictly on their "appearance."
The law will result in a massive waste of time, money, embarrassment and of course lawsuits...that will cost the government even more money.
How many people here carry their passports or birth certificates on them at all times?
Not that it's racial profiling...
You are right. It isn't racial profiling since Hispanic, Mexican, Spanish....isn't a race. It happens to be a country/nationality/culture
It IS profiling, however, as it should be. People who fit the profile will be questioned about their illegal or legal status.
You can't catch criminals if you don't narrow your search to those who are actually committing the crimes.
If we were trying to stop an illegal flood of British Columbia Lumberjacks. We would be stopping peolple wearing plaid, speaking with Canadian accents and carrying chainsaws.
Common sense. OF course we will be profiling. However, it isn't racially motivated, no matter how hard you try to make it be so.
How many people here carry their passports or birth certificates on them at all times?
When I'm not in the United States and traveling in Mexico, Costa Rica or other countries.....all the time.
I don't need to carry one in the US since I'm a legal citizen of this country and have other forms of identification (driver's license) that I carry at all times.
Try again.
Lars ole boy...don't know you, but your rejoinders are right witty. Also spurious and without substance.
For example...just where does Muslim extremists flying on airplanes fit the thread? We would likely agree on that topic, but that would spoil your fun. No matter, it wasn't the topic here now was it?
By the by, how many Muslims do you personally know face to face every day? Or is your attitude based upon what you read? As I said we'd likely agree on the TSA thing, but for different reasons. Me, I live in a 90% Muslim community, and have for 20+ years. You?
The day comes that Jeremy and I agree on something is rare, but like a broken watch, the time is correct twice a day, so it's not impossible.
Mz Palin said what she said, and the quote Jeremy cited was her follow up explanation. Mz Palin, IIRC, made it no video and no recorders for her speeches, "pencil notes only", in Midland Texas, at her various $50 to $5000 per ticket events.
None the less I will find where I read the text of her words, on another blog site, and link to it....as Doug Smith politely asked me to do.
Might take me a bit since this isn't the only thing I do, Lars...so you go ahead and mock some more folks whom you disagree with....you and Sarah have that in common.
Poor Jeremy, waxing indignant over the insufferable indignity illegals must face by adhering to the fucking law.
Profiling? Boo-fucking-hoo. I bet you and Betalib could create a raging torrent of crocodile tears on this very thread if you keep it up.
Go ahead, keep screaming racism you mindless asswipe. Toss out Bush's name too so you can get do the complete liberal parody right.
As far as papers go, most citizens will have a drivers license, proof of insurance and other documentation--I am not sure what Jeremy's point is, but seems to miss the boat as far as how US citizens (emphasis citizens) are documented in the here and now.
I think we had that one time...it was called slavery.
Illegals are much better than slaves, because you had to feed house and clothe slaves even when times were slack, or else lose your investment in them. Illegals you can just tell to buzz off if you don't need them. And if they hung around for some reason you could call La Migra on them.
The irony of Arizona and Hispanics in particular is that the border crossed them. Tubac and Tucson were populated by Hispanics long before any Anglos showed up.
It seems to be a particular feature of our great nation that for the most part we arent required to carry passports--that is most certainly not the case when you travel outside the US--I lived in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for a year and was subject to frequent road blocks to show my papers--and god only knows what Canada is like--without your passport they will force you to eat french fries with brown gravy--oh the inhumanity.
"For example...just where does Muslim extremists flying on airplanes fit the thread?"
Because profiling is fairly fucking relevant in this conversation and it seems to have come up prior to this post of yours?
Did you want anyone to actually read what you wrote after this little gem?
You wouldn't write under the penname Ellie Light by chance would you?
I think the appropriate dictum is when in rome....it seems now that rome (AKA AZ) might be redefining the rules--but as many liberal commentators noted during the health care debate, the law was passed with a legislative majority thus legitimizing it.
Jeremy said: "How many people here carry their passports or birth certificates on them at all times?"
Me for one. However I live in a border state 5 minutes from a border. Law says I must have it to cross over and come back.
I am presently applying for a Passport Card to make it a bit easier for land travel. Boring Details here.
I'd suggest Arizona folk do the same pronto. Arizona does not offer "Real ID" compliant driver's licenses or non-driver ID cards as Michigan, New York, Vermont and Washington do, plus 4 or more Provinces in Canada. Boo Hoo for Arizona folk, and those in the other 46 states.
(Or is that 53 others??)
Couldnt resist this re carrying birth certificates: does Mr Obama carry his with him? (sorry, sometimes these are just too easy--full disclosure: I am not a birther)
Gmay...no, frankly, I don't give a damn if you or anyone reads what I write. Last I checked there were few Muslims in Arizona...never mind that I said I'd likely agree with Lars on the subject.
BTW...are you aware of the Passport Card availability and when the REAL ID Act of 2005, Pub.L. 109-13, 119 Stat. 302, goes in to effect?
Personally I think the Act overreaches vastly, however, the concept of compliant ID isn't so hard as 4 states have already shown by issuing enhanced driver's licenses.
Roger J said: "Couldnt resist this re carrying birth certificates: does Mr Obama carry his with him?'
Which one? :-P
Full disclosure: Not a birther either.
Whoa...Jeremy changed the subject from violence aimed at the president so fast I think I've got whiplash.
Just for giggles Jeremy, why don't you go to Mexico and refuse to produce ID when asked simply because you're a gringo. Or apply for an FM2 to work in Mexico.
I personally find referring to Hispanics as colored or brown people very offensive, but then I have Hispanic family and friends.
Hispanics come in all shades of skin color, shapes, sizes and features just as do blacks, whites and Asians. Perhaps you haven't noticed that green or hazel eyes is not rare among Hispanics.
Did you know that in Mexico tanning is shunned as darker skin is a mark of poverty and/or Indian heritage. A pale skin, fine features and perfect Castilian Spanish is the ideal. So why isn't La Raza agit-propping in Mexico City?
Hmmm?
Sporadic enforcement will have dramatic effects in AZ. Draconian measures are unnecessary.
Flouting of the law must stop, threatened violence by illegal aliens notwithstanding.
The left wing reaction to this is so predictable and adds nothing to the discussion. When all three show up, it's just distracting and annoying.
Illegals are much better than slaves, because you had to feed house and clothe slaves even when times were slack, or else lose your investment in them. Illegals you can just tell to buzz off if you don't need them. And if they hung around for some reason you could call La Migra on them.
If this is the way you feel, then I would think you would support a strict immigration policy where immigrants are legally in the country and because they are not hiding like rats in the walls, they DO have recourse and can count on protection from predatory employers.
Much of the misery of the illegal alien is because they are ILLEGAL and can be freely exploited.
"It doesn't have to be based on any suspicion of wrongdoing or actual crimes in progress...will be based strictly on their 'appearance.'"
100% a lie. The law *explicitly forbids* this.
"Pulling people over based on their color, to make sure they're American citizens is the same as carding someone trying to buy beer."
Straw man. The law in question does NOT require proof of citizenship, only proof of *legal residency.* A driver's license or other state ID will suffice.
speaking of poor treatment of illegal immigrants
Also re mistreatment of illegals, see what the Bahamas does to its illegal hatians--Let them work for a while under the radar screen Mostly haitians clear brush on islands, and work for little money. The Bahamian government will then conduct sweeps of the squatters camps, round them up and put them on boats back to Haiti. Not very pretty. Fortunately its black on black violence, so no one really gives a damn. The brush gets cleared, Bahamians dont have to work too hard, and when the Haitians are used up they are rounded up and deported
Duncan Hunter - Leading tea bagging xenophobe and hero to many here, in a recent debate:
“Would you support deportation of natural born American citizens that are the children of illegal aliens?” a man in the audience asked.
“I would have to, yes,” Hunter said.
“You can look and say, ‘You’re a mean guy. That’s a mean thing to do. That’s not a humanitarian thing to do.’ We simply cannot afford what we’re doing right now."
And here we go: The "deportation of natural born American citizens."
Dust Bunny Queen said..."You are right. It isn't racial profiling since Hispanic, Mexican, Spanish....isn't a race. It happens to be a country/nationality/culture."
Oh, so sorry.
It's "country/nationality/culture" profiling...that just happens to be based on "color."
Excuuuuuse me.
Perhaps, Mr Jeremy, the appropriate response is to change the definition of a natural born citizen, thus eliminating the incentive to illegally immigrate and reproduce. I suspect they may reduce the incentive structure for illegal immigration to some extent.
YMMV, of course.
Dust Bunny Queen said..."I don't need to carry one in the US since I'm a legal citizen of this country and have other forms of identification (driver's license) that I carry at all times."
Yes, but if you happen to look "Hispanic," and are also "a legal citizen of this country" you would certainly have to carry such identification in order to prove you are not "illegal."
Now would YOU really like to always be carrying around your passport...just in case?
And how many times, while traveling, have you ever been asked to provide your passport as identification...other than when getting on a train or boarding an airplane?
You're just being an asshole.
Jeremy--you claimed to have travelled out of the country, but in my experience, even checking into a hotel in many countries requires you to show a passport. And I outlined my experience in Saudi Arabia--and the Mid Eastern states are quite adept at putting up road blocks to check passports.
If you are a US citizen travelling abroad, a passport is the most important thing you can carry.
Roger J. said..."Perhaps, Mr Jeremy, the appropriate response is to change the definition of a natural born citizen, thus eliminating the incentive to illegally immigrate and reproduce."
Citizenship in the United States is governed by the Constitution.
The Fourteenth Amendment includes the Citizenship Clause that says that all persons born or naturalized in the United States, are citizens.
Jeremy--I am well aware of that--perhaps my point was missed--the constitution can be amended. Did you not understand that? Apparently not--so my modest proposal is to amend the constitution to make a natural born citizen the issue of naturalized parents. Is that clear enough for you? The constitution as liberals are fond of reminding us a living document and needs to reflect current realities.
Roger J. said..."Jeremy--you claimed to have travelled out of the country, but in my experience, even checking into a hotel in many countries requires you to show a passport."
Yes, Roger...I didn't think I had to mention ever aspect of passport identification. Hotels do indeed ask for and generally hold onto them while a guest. And yes, there are certainly countries that are more stringent in their oversight, but are you now saying we should adopt the same measures as Middle Eastern countries?
With the exception of what I mentioned before (and of course your hotel example) I've never been asked for my passport while wandering the streets of cities throughout Europe.
Can you stretch any more?
Well Jeremy since you agreed with everything I said the only person now stretching is you.
Yes, but if you happen to look "Hispanic," and are also "a legal citizen of this country" you would certainly have to carry such identification in order to prove you are not "illegal."
Since I do look as Hispanic as this woman If I were stopped the identification that I would have as a citizen would be my government issued driver's license.
If I were a non citizen, then I would be carrying my Government Visa, Passport, Green Card as well as a provisional driver's license. This isn't a big burden.
And since the law is that you can't be stopped for just "looking" illegal, but must be doing something that causes you to be stopped. Even many illegals probably don't need to worry much about it.
Even so.....the mere fact of being in this country illegally is.....wait for it......ILLEGAL.
Will some people abuse this law. Probably, and they should be severely punished.
However, you don't get a pass on being a criminal because you are a certain ethnic group.
Michael said...Well, I suppose lefties never:
Show their ID at airports
Show their ID to police if they are pulled over in traffic
Show their ID to a 19 year old behind the WalMart counter
Show their ID to Immigration when coming into the country
Show their ID to cash a check
Show their ID to use a credit card
Show their ID
Of course everybody shows an I.D. for what you describe, but if you're not involved in any of what you describe, the people at the counters, terminals, stores or police don't randomly stop and ask you to produce it.
You're an idiot.
I've never been asked for my passport while wandering the streets of cities throughout Europe.
However, if you were being stopped in Europe for committing a crime or the suspicion of committing a crime, you can damned well bet that you'd better be able to show your "papers".
Same thing as this law.
How does this law relate to kids?
Are kids supposed to carry their birth certificates with them at all times?
AL: Echoing rhetoric from mass murderer Timothy McVeigh about "the tree of liberty."
Oh, so that's where that phrase comes from. I always thought it was that other guy, you know, what's his name. Musta plagiarized it from McVeigh.
wv: heace. Is life life so dear and heace so sweet, as to be hurchased at the hrice of chains and slavery?
How does this law relate to kids?
Are kids supposed to carry their birth certificates with them at all times?
That is a tough one.
However, if the kids are being stopped and detained because they are involved in criminal activities ( usually drug or gang related) it probably doesn't matter since they will likely be going to juvenile hall.
Deportation of the parents....that IS a real quandry.
Dust Bunny Queen said..."However, if you were being stopped in Europe for committing a crime or the suspicion of committing a crime, you can damned well bet that you'd better be able to show your "papers"."
Uh, yeah...that makes sense, but I've never had anyone randomly walk up to me and ask for my passport.
Have YOU?
The law in Arizona says the police do not need to be suspicious of any crimes being committed, only that they think you may not be here legally.
Other than the color of their skin...what exactly would you base this suspicion on? And again: what about kids? How do they fit into this I.D. thing?
Oh, wait...I guess you could base it all on their...shoes...right?
Would someone in the mainstream media actually read SB 1070? Please? Are there no fact checkers left on staff anywhere?
Of course Jeremy is talking about Europe where they are a bit more civilized. It is not unusual in the middle east, for example, to be stopped for no reason, and be asked for papers--Even if you have papers, which, by the way, identify your nationality, you will then be taken to the local magistrate, who will present you with some trumped up charges but tell you the whole affair can be done with for the payment of 100 dollars american. The 100 dollars american is based, of course, on the knowledge that you are american because of your passport.
Jeremy's travels have clearly not been to such exciting places where bakshees and la mordida are the norm.
Dust Bunny more than adequately describes why you may at some point be asked for your papers, even in Europe.
Dust Bunny Queen said..."However, if the kids are being stopped and detained because they are involved in criminal activities ( usually drug or gang related) it probably doesn't matter since they will likely be going to juvenile hall."
But they don't have to be involved in anything you describe.
All they have to be is there...and of course...look like someone who could possibly be an illegal.
How would you deal with this little problem? How would legal parents of kids who do not have "proper identification," and are carted off...deal with the sudden disappearance of a child?
Oh...wait...call the police...right?
Irrespective of the arcania of papers and overseas travels, the law in Arizona was passed with a duly constituted legislature and signed by the duly elected governor. (you know, rather like the Health care reform thing). Perhaps the best strategy at this point is let the law play out and see how it goes down. There will be legal challenges, I am sure. Since states are the laboratories of democracy, this just may work.
If any of us knew the answer, we would be buying futures in commodities. At this point, we are debating what we think might happen rather than what will happen--rather a waste of Thursday nite.
Roger - What the fuck are you talking about?
I spent years traveling all over the world on business and was never stopped on the street and asked for my passport.
I have a feeling you and the Dust Bunny must look suspicious or you're just full of shit.
All they have to be is there...and of course...look like someone who could possibly be an illegal.
Not true. The law specifically forbids this action.
You really need to stop with the pathological lies. People might take you seriously if you didn't lie, distort and exagerate.
A Lawyer Mom's Musings said..."Would someone in the mainstream media actually read SB 1070? Please? Are there no fact checkers left on staff anywhere?"
Well, plenty of law enforcement people have read it, and they don't like it one bit.
Do you think they're all full of shit, too?
Ah J man--been in the Kingdom? Egypt? Ethiopia? the emirates?
Yemen? Fortunately I travelled on a diplomatic passport (red cover) Roadblocks were frequent and I was asked for my papers daily.
But we are now in the pig wrestling phase as Shaw described it. One of knows what we are talking about. You choose. Good night.
Here's another guy who evidently knows nothing about what this law will bring:
Gordon, a staunch opponent of the state law, said that means anyone who doesn't carry an Arizona license -- children under 16, seniors who don't drive and people from out of state -- could be "at risk of being arrested and turned over to (Immigration and Customs Enforcement)."
"It tramples civil rights," Gordon told Fox News on Sunday. "Now everyone has to show and prove that they're a legal resident or citizen." The mayor of Arizona's largest city is at odds with Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer, who signed the bill Friday and described the legislation as her state's answer to "decades of inaction and misguided policy" in Washington.
Roger - You keep referencing countries that are not exactly on a par with the United States when it comes to basic human rights.
I assume North Korea is not that much fun either, and Iran would probably be a tough sell for tourism...but what the fuck do the countries you reference have to do with the state of Arizona?
Good lord...get your head out of your ass.
Quote " For any legitimate contact made by an official or agency of this state or a county, city, town or other political subdivision of this state where reasonable suspicion exists that the person is an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States, a reasonable attempt shall be made to determine the immigration status of the person. The person's immigration status shall be verified with the federal government pursuant to 8 United States code section 1373(c)"
A legitimate contact would be that which the official can legally stop or detain you. This doesn't mean the cops can go racing wildly around the streets stopping people for no "legitimate" reason.
If you are illegal, then I suggest you don't give cause to be "legitimately" contacted.
Drive a registered vehicle. Obey the traffic laws. Keep your vehicle repaired so they can't stop you for cracked windshield etc. Don't loiter. Don't be drunk in public. Don't be panhandling. Don't beat your wife or husband and create a disturbance in the neighborhood. Don't shoplift. Don't steal. Don't deal drugs or hang out with drug dealers.
There are plenty of things that you can NOT do that will keep you from being "legitimately" detained or contacted.
It is a good law.z, and will also catch a bunch of the "coyotes" who deal in human transport and slavery.
Since the usual suspects are in a knot over showing one's papers, they must be against the use of one's driver's license, a verifiable photo ID that must be displayed many times in a day.
former law student said...
I think we had that one time...it was called slavery.
...
The irony of Arizona and Hispanics in particular is that the border crossed them. Tubac and Tucson were populated by Hispanics long before any Anglos showed up.
The Apaches and the Zunis probably said the same thing about the Spaniards and the Mexicans.
"I've never been asked for my passport while wandering the streets of cities throughout Europe."
You must have an honest face. The last time I spent any time in Europe every hotel I stayed in not only asked for my passport, they kept it overnight (while, I assume, they reported my name to the authorities).
1st time illegals in Mexico gets two years incarceration. 2nd time illegals get ten years.
Of course, Obama can't even figure out what to do about people who crash the White House, much less the country.
He has a problem with boundaries, as they say.
former law student: "Tubac and Tucson were populated by Hispanics long before any Anglos showed up."
Yes, and the southwest was populated by Indians before the Spanish showed up. And before those Indians were even earlier Indians. What's your point? That the southwest belongs to the next-to-the-last people who conquered it?
Well shit, I thought the discussion would be over after Jerry here Godwinned himself. You wanna 'splain how it's Hitleresque to deport illegal aliens with their "legal" minors?
This should be good.
fls: The irony of Arizona and Hispanics in particular is that the border crossed them. Tubac and Tucson were populated by Hispanics long before any Anglos showed up.
Descendants of Hispanics who were in Arizona before the Anglos showed up aren't illegal immigrants. They are what is known as "American citizens".
There must be some weird counterfactual history out there, peddled as "suppressed" and taken as fact, that the small population of Hispanic settlers in the ceded territories in 1848 was actually quite large, and that they were all ethnically cleansed, rather than mostly just staying put.
That, or they think that borders imposed by Spanish colonizers on indigenous populations have some sacred moral weight absent from the nation-building exercises of rival European colonizers.
Otherwise I can't figure out why people keep adducing the universally known fact that the Southwest once belonged to Mexico as if it were a little known fact whose introduction into the debate is going to astonish advocates of border control and compel them to completely rethink their views. That and, "But your ancestors were immigrants, too!" (Oh well then! /Smacks forehead/ In that case what possible objection could there be open borders?)
Titus: "For those of you living in unattractive states with little or no beauty I understand you don't understand."
Some of us live in states like California with plenty of natural beauty. Unfortunately the people who have the most of it (from Mailbu to Santa Barbara) worry more about their "viewshed" than they do about the economy. So oil drilling off the coast is banned. Other people don't want anyone to put up solar panels in the Mojave for the same reason (even though there's no one out there but a few mice, tortoises and roadrunners). We could go nuclear like France and (increasingly) China but the anti-nuclear crowd kept us from building nuclear power plants for the last 30 years.
I don't know where they think we're going to get the electricity to recharge all the electric cars that will be delivered in the next decade.
Wind power isn't much I know. But environmentalists won't let us build on land (they complain about dead songbirds and the noise from the turning of blades. Then when someone says, hey, let's put them in the ocean where there are no songbirds and the noise won't even be heard, people come along and complain about the lost of their view. I bet they used to complain about windmills in Holland to Hans Christian Anderson.
There's no please some people. They attack oil, coal and nuclear power. Then when you say okay, we'd do wind and solar, they attack that too. I don't know how they are going to power their computers and latte machines--pedal power I suppose. But then someone would complain about that too.
So having skimmed the threat, I think we can safely say our leftist friends are not at all bothered by actual death threats from illegal immigrants, but are very very VERY bothered by offcolor jokes which may or may not have been written by Tea Partiers?
"The law in Arizona says the police do not need to be suspicious of any crimes being committed, only that they think you may not be here legally."
Another lie. Being here illegally is *itself* a crime in Arizona.
The irony is that Anglos are the newcomers who should look out of place (if indeed we can call a Latin like Arpaio an Anglo). Hispanics belong, honkies don't. One might similarly question the provenance of cacti and ocotillos while accepting that "nativeness" of rose bushes.
"If John Lewis said it happened, that's good enough for me"
- Rep. Mike Pence (Republican -- and WHITE!)
That's called a rope-a-dope, you insufferably stupid and obnoxious communist.
Hostels have usually one central kitchen area and you basically buy a bed for the night.
Pousadas Em Fortaleza
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