Althouse: "We told him that what he said was very offensive and he recoiled."

April 13, 2010

"We told him that what he said was very offensive and he recoiled."

"'I’m sorry if I offended you, I’m sorry.'"

104 comments:

Ann Althouse said...: Please discuss this topic carefully.; 4/13/10, 7:38 AM
Joe said...: Is this sexism or false "solidarity"? "I know how to be 'hip' let me demonstrate it to these two graduate stundents."

I stand in awe of this perfesser.

Of course he really can't be racist because he stood up for Chrystal Magnum at Duke.; 4/13/10, 7:45 AM
AllenS said...: The students -- both African-American women in Cornell’s Africana Studies and Research Center who have asked that their identities not be made public

Who are the ***** *******? We don't know. Was I careful enough?; 4/13/10, 7:46 AM
Hoosier Daddy said...: What am I missing from the article? I mean why would he be wondering why two black girls were attending a conference on black intellectuals? Isn't Grant Farred also black? Something doesn't make sense with this whole thing.

And when is it not offensive to refer to a woman as a bitch? In my neck of the woods that will get your teeth kicked in.; 4/13/10, 7:51 AM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Please discuss this topic carefully.

Does this mean I have to fasten my seat belt and put my tray in the upright position?; 4/13/10, 7:52 AM
Anonymous said...: The students are described as African-American women, but the race of the professor isn't mentioned. Or did I miss something?; 4/13/10, 7:53 AM
MadisonMan said...: Africana studies? Interesting name.

Even though the man admits saying it, I want to know the context. Jocular? Accusatory? It reads -- to me -- like the professor assumed a level of friendship/intimacy with the students that just wasn't there. It's certainly a failure on his part to be a good mentor, one role that a professor most certainly should be playing, especially at an away-from-campus meeting.; 4/13/10, 7:55 AM
AllenS said...: Out of all the different commenters on this blog, I wonder how many are ***** *******?; 4/13/10, 7:55 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Seems a dumb story like this erupts almost every other day. Do colleges fail at setting meaningful priorities & obnjectives for their students cause "Africana" sure ain't one IMHO. If I am wrong, please don't bitch and complain that college did not prepare you for a good job.; 4/13/10, 8:06 AM
rhhardin said...: Carnage in the fish tank.; 4/13/10, 8:06 AM
prairie wind said...: Allen, I am not a ----- -----. I am a ----- -----.

I don't know how to discuss this carefully. Does every stupid, rude comment need to be dissected publicly? Farred did something incredibly rude. He should apologize. If the university could stop thinking in terms of race, they could see it as the awful rudeness that it was and they would come down hard on Farred.; 4/13/10, 8:08 AM
AllenS said...: Prairie,

I always figured you were.

WV: spins; 4/13/10, 8:10 AM
SteveR said...: They have put a lot of work into learning to be offended and he throws that out.; 4/13/10, 8:16 AM
Tank said...: The money quote:

The whole process seems to be moving a bit too slowly for the two graduate students and many of their supporters. “Had this happened with a white professor, or in a different department, the response would have been unequivocal in responding to what was said,” one of the students said.

If it was a white professor, he would be fired, deported and dead already. I'm being careful here.

WV: pander -- Yes, really; 4/13/10, 8:16 AM
Joe said...: If the university could stop thinking in terms of race, they could see it as the awful rudeness that it was and they would come down hard on Farred.

The university has a problem…well several problems…one is the “gong” problem…and two is tenure/professor problem.

The perfesser is Black-yes I know that the article does not mention his race, BUT how many white prof’s are in Africana Studies and two, IF a white professor had called two Black graduate students “b!tches” s/he’d be out the door, or at least in sensitivity training so fast as to make your head spin, so it’s a safe bet Farred is Black- so the University ahs to sort out it’s gongs and see which number of gongs outweighs the others.. now the Professor is Black, one “gong”, but the two students are “womyn” AND WOMYON OF COLOUR, so that’s two gongs…so normally, all things being equal the professor would be in deep trouble…..because he only has one gong.

HOWEVER, Farred is a Black Man, and a PhD…I’d imagine he has tenure. His accusers are only graduate students. In the Great Chain of Being, they are a lower life form-sorry, I’ve been a grad student, I can see the pecking order-so now the university has to make a decision regarding a PhD versus two MA or Doctoral students, in that social milieu that’s not going to be easy. PLUS, throw in Ward Churchill. A Professor can lie, plagiarize and produce shoddy research, AND STILL not be “legally” separated from his/her employment. So whatever they do to Prof. Farred, may come back to bite them on the @rse….Sure you can sanction him and then he can appeal, and sue you…and possibly win.

I may have written this somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but the problems of the university administration are real, problems created BY the university system yes, but real nonetheless. What they do to Farred could cause them no end of grief, from a racial grievance/equal opportunity complaint, to having to pay Dr. Farred, as Colorado has had to pay Churchill, for an unlawful termination or punishment. There is no good answer to this, from the PC World that modern universities have placed themselves in. This is black-on-black/Female-male, teacher-student conflict, and each of them has a somewhat different requirement for settlement, and now the university has to thread the needle(s) as best it can….no wonder they’re taking their sweet time.; 4/13/10, 8:21 AM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Does context even make a difference? I mean is there a level of intimacy or familiarity that makes it ok to refer to a woman as a bitch? Hell I’ve been married for 19 years and it would never even occur to me to call Mrs. Hoosier that even in jest. Maybe it was the way I was raised.; 4/13/10, 8:22 AM
prairie wind said...: Did anyone else in the audience react to Farred's rude comment? Did no one stand up and demand that he apologize? Did no one take him aside at the break and say, "That was uncalled for"? Strange audience, if not.

wv: oofish...an oofish audience, even; 4/13/10, 8:22 AM
AllenS said...: discuss this topic carefully

That's a big problem. Why should we be careful? If you have to tiptoe around any subject concerning the black race, why post anything about coloreds? Why do we have to be careful when talking about what Negroes say about other Negroes? This whole African American bullshit sucks. No other institution says racism like the Congressional Black Caucus. It's getting to the point that it would be best to avoid ******* altogether.; 4/13/10, 8:24 AM
Joe said...: Did anyone else in the audience react to Farred's rude comment?

Well, it wasn't like Dr. Farred was at the Podium of the symposium and shouted out to the womyn as they came thru the door.; 4/13/10, 8:25 AM
paul a'barge said...: Here is the mutt

Oh look. He's black.

You just can't make these people up.; 4/13/10, 8:30 AM
paul a'barge said...: Hoosier Daddy said when is it not offensive to refer to a woman as a bitch?

When one black person says it to another black person.

It's called the race get-out-of-jail-free card.

Common as dirt. No pun intended.; 4/13/10, 8:32 AM
MadisonMan said...: Hoosier, I think -- as Joe said at 745 -- that the professor was trying to be 'hip'.

Epic Fail.

Corollary: You are not hip either. Welcome to the club. I would never call a woman bitch. Not to her face at least -- I might mention to my wife that I think a friend is being bitchy.; 4/13/10, 8:33 AM
traditionalguy said...: What are they bitching about? The Professor is a black man greeting black women in a Rap Music vernacular. He said he was sorry. Maybe the pound of flesh due from a misogynist will have to be paid?; 4/13/10, 8:34 AM
paul a'barge said...: This is the kind of incident that makes me not care anymore about anything that black people say.; 4/13/10, 8:34 AM
kent said...: The insincerity was underscored, the student added, when “after the apology, he said to us, ‘Stay out of any low-income neighborhoods while in Rochester.

The eternal classiness of the political left.; 4/13/10, 8:36 AM
Anonymous said...: "'Had this happened with a white professor, . . . the response would have been unequivocal in responding to what was said,' one of the students said."

I should have noticed the above when I first read the article.; 4/13/10, 8:44 AM
Rick67 said...: Well. I was at Cornell for 9 years as undergraduate then graduate student. My 2nd year lived in Ujamaa a special program dorm for people interested in 3rd world and minority issues (at the time many white Cornell students mistakenly thought of it as the "black dorm"). Many fellow Ujamites took courses in Africana Studies.

Africana Center offered classes pertaining primarily to (1) African history, politics, languages and (2) African-American experience (history, literature, and so on). Many courses were simply cross registered from other departments, but there were plenty of courses that were listed solely under Africana Research and Studies Center (such as Swahili). The Center itself is rather removed from the Arts Quad and is a moderate hike. I suppose one could just go to Cornell.Edu and look their web page.

I was in Near Eastern Studies which included Jewish Studies. I bring this up to mention that Near Eastern Studies and Africana Studies did not have a friendly relationship. And I never took classes at Africana Studies Center.* This was around 20 years ago so have no idea about the present.

*(Oops I forgot. Did take one class that was cross-registered. It did not meet at the Africana Studies Center.)

I do not have a strong opinion about this because I am not sure what to think.

1) I have *no* reason to disbelieve the 2 graduate students.

2) But I am troubled that they are the *only* source for the article although perhaps I read it incorrectly. The professor and the administration have not said anything publicly am I correct?

3) Either this is a delay/deny/cover situation or the university wants to be very sure and very careful before taking any public action. Or possibly both.

4) I have no idea why the professor allegedly said this (and what he said was extremely offensive) but I am inclined to agree with Joe. Trying to be hip with expression of false solidarity.

5) If this is sexism and/or racism - where does such language come from? White racists? Or somewhere else? Dare one ask from literature, movies, perhaps music? Then the issue gets even more awkward and complicated.

6) My parents met in Rochester and I had relatives there. One does need to be careful in certain areas. Although I don't understand why the professor allegedly brought that up.

@Joe - yes but some white professors teach classes that are cross-listed. I cannot remember if any white professors were just plain Africana Studies.; 4/13/10, 8:44 AM
Tank said...: Paul

Calling him a Mutt is not being careful enough.; 4/13/10, 8:46 AM
Anonymous said...: Please note that this "professor" was one of the Duke 88.

I guess Cornell "stole" this learned academic from Duke.

Next stop, Princeton to take over for
the ever blathering Cornel West.; 4/13/10, 8:46 AM
AllenS said...: I'm not sure if I was being clear enough. I noticed that ******* has the same amount of letters that ******* have.; 4/13/10, 8:51 AM
Balfegor said...: My first reaction is that it's bizarre for someone to call two women "bitches" just kind of out of the blue like that. I mean, who does that? Even if the race thing didn't come into that, it's gratuitously rude.

As far as the insincerity of the apology, I think it's that he said:

"‘I’m sorry if I offended you, I’m sorry.’”

as opposed to

"‘I’m sorry that I offended you, I’m sorry.’ ”

"If" makes it sound challenging, as though there's a presumption that they should not be offended, but if they were, well, he may as well apologise, whereas "that" openly acknowledges that they were offended, and apologises for offending them.

Of course, there is also follow up that they found offensive:

But, the other student said, “the way he responded about our reaction to his comment, we both felt offended – the apology itself was insincere.” The insincerity was underscored, the student added, when “after the apology, he said to us, ‘Stay out of any low-income neighborhoods while in Rochester.’ ”

I'm actually not sure I understand what's offensive about that.; 4/13/10, 8:53 AM
Balfegor said...: Re: Rick:

2) But I am troubled that they are the *only* source for the article although perhaps I read it incorrectly. The professor and the administration have not said anything publicly am I correct?

I don't think that's quite right. The head of the program, Salah Hassan has said the professor didn't deny making the remarks:

Hassan said Farred had not denied making the remarks.

On the other hand, maybe he has legal counsel who have told him not to say anything either way? If he didn't say it, though, I don't think there would have been any harm to him in getting his side of the story out there.; 4/13/10, 8:56 AM
AllenS said...: ‘Stay out of any low-income neighborhoods while in Rochester.’ ”

I'm actually not sure I understand what's offensive about that.

That means stay out of neighborhoods that have a lot of ******* in them. Which is offensive to *******.; 4/13/10, 8:57 AM
Anonymous said...: No other institution says racism like the Congressional Black Caucus.

Even though it has a token white member.

Peter; 4/13/10, 8:59 AM
Wince said...: A little sensitivity here.

The difference is he probably pronouced it bee-atch-es.

Okay if you are an professor of Africana Studies, or a congressman's gay lover.; 4/13/10, 9:16 AM
AllenS said...: *** **** * *******, **** ***, * ********** ***. ** * **** ****** *****?; 4/13/10, 9:21 AM
Brian said...: It's obvious the only reason this is an issue is racism by whitey. If not for slavery 135 years ago, then this professor would be free to call these ladies &*$&*# *#^$*#&* all he wanted. After all as a &#*$#& #&#*#*&* I am free to call women I interact with &*#$&#, and *@*(#*$, and #*$(#*, all I want. Just ask my wife, or as I affectionately call her, my "#**#$(#* #*$(*#(#."; 4/13/10, 9:21 AM
Xmas said...: As an associate professor at Duke University, he voiced support for the black woman who accused three white lacrosse players of rape -- charges that were eventually dropped.

Wow...what a way to sugar coat what happened....; 4/13/10, 9:41 AM
Joan said...: I read this as a hearsay situation. The students say the professor has admitted making the remark, but there is no official statement, either from the professor or the administration, on the record, confirming it:

in a meeting with Harris, the students said, Farred admitted to making the remarks. Moss would not confirm or deny that admission.

It's possible the guy is just a jerk. It's possible the students misheard him. But don't these two women have anything better to do than to make a ruckus about a comment that was made to them weeks ago? If it happened, it was stupid and offensive, but does that make it criminal? Are there rules at Cornell that specify what kind of disciplinary action should be taken against associate professors who say stupid and offensive things? It seems to me that all 3 parties involved here need to grow up.; 4/13/10, 9:41 AM
2yellowdogs said...: Thank GOD the offending professor isn't white, not to mention conservative. I don't think I could take the week-long sanctimonious cable news firestorm that would be raining down as a result of a comment like this.

So, really, nothing important happened here. Move along.; 4/13/10, 9:49 AM
AllenS said...: I'm left wondering if the ***** ******* are mad at the Professor because they found out he chases after white women? Can I say that?; 4/13/10, 9:55 AM
The Drill SGT said...: LarsPorsena said...
Please note that this "professor" was one of the Duke 88.

More than that, he's still unrepentant that the LAX players were guilty of something.

but back on point, at Duke, the Duke 88 clearly felt that the faculty code that required staff to treat students with respect didn't apply in situations where the students wer white and the victim was an oppressed minority woman.

Cornell should have known what they were getting when they hired this race focused Prof, gave him tenure and made him an asst Chairman.

They were sooo very pleased to steal this clown from the Dukies...

That he behaves this way at Cornell? priceless karma.; 4/13/10, 9:59 AM
Joe said...: But don't these two women have anything better to do than to make a ruckus about a comment that was made to them weeks ago?

Uh yes it happened weeks ago, they reported it IMMEDIATELY…”Hassan said that as soon as he learned of the allegations on Feb. 8 -- the Monday after the incident” The University has taken its sweet time in making some decision/taking some action(s). That’s why they’re “making a ruckus” they complained, but nothing has, seemingly, been done.

…but does that make it criminal? No it’s not, necessarily, CRIMINAL, but there are several levels of action and wrong-doing that are actionable, but not criminal, i.e., actionable by the “State.” Your company can fire you for violations of company policy, it’s not “criminal”, but it’s still a sanction. So, yes the University CAN act, even if it’s not a crime.

Are there rules at Cornell that specify what kind of disciplinary action should be taken against associate professors who say stupid and offensive things? Generally, Yes….most universities have codes of conduct governing student, staff and faculty rights, duties and responsibilities, and the sanctions for violations. And a goodly number of universities have speech and conduct codes….I’m pretty certain that if walk up to a Black Sorority/Fraternity and call the members “N*ggers”-after you receive the richly deserved beating of your life-that, if you are a student, staff or faculty of that university, that yes, the university will have grounds to sanction you.

Lastly, picture yourself as the Grad Students. You have driven two hours to the symposium…now you may or may NOT have wanted to go…but department politics plays a role here, and so they went, willingly or otherwise. Once there, the person that invited/compelled them to come “greets” them by calling them “B!tches?” Were it you or your daughter exactly what would you have done? I can tell you, had it been offspring of mine, there would be H3ll to pay! I am not forking out six digits to send my offspring to an Ivy League School, to have them be addressed as some sort of hi-hop “”Ho,” especially by the faculty that are instructing them!; 4/13/10, 10:03 AM
Roger J. said...: In academe, the battles are so fierce because the stakes are so small--who give a shit about either the program, the university or the black "bitches."

Academe should get over itself. Thank god they are training professors and not plumbers, because if they were training plumbers we would drown in a sea of sewage.; 4/13/10, 10:05 AM
Joe said...: because if they were training plumbers we would drown in a sea of sewage.

Untrue, once we had done a thorough lit review of plumbing, defined our terms, developed an elegant and parsimonious theory of plumbing, tested it, debated the results, and examined the methodology, replicated the experiments or run the study numbers again, been peer-reviewed and published….you’d see wonderful plumbing. It’s obvious you are a Philistine!; 4/13/10, 10:13 AM
Roger J. said...: Joe: great comment! except the forget the two fundamental axioms of plumbing--pay day is on friday and shit flows down hill.; 4/13/10, 10:19 AM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: Are they offended because he called them bitches? I would be too. To me that would indicate a knee jerk disrespect of women.

Or are they offended because he called them 'black' bitches? Which then puts more emphasis on their color.

On one hand. He IS black. Can a black man be racist against black women? I think yes.

On the other hand, they should be offended on both levels. Being singled out as bitches and the undercurrent of racism.

On the third hand. It was as a venue that highlighted race....so maybe being emphasised as 'black' bitches was in line with the theme.

The whole thing is highly amusing to me.; 4/13/10, 10:20 AM
Balfegor said...: Untrue, once we had done a thorough lit review of plumbing, defined our terms, developed an elegant and parsimonious theory of plumbing, tested it, debated the results, and examined the methodology, replicated the experiments or run the study numbers again, been peer-reviewed and published….you’d see wonderful plumbing.

Thank you, Sir Humphrey.; 4/13/10, 10:23 AM
Anonymous said...: Yes, I wonder too what the professor's color is. In racialist theory, all white people are racists so that's important.

It sounds to me like some pathetic lefty trying to be all ghetto and cool.

Get over it, girls...er, ladies...er,...women...okay, then, womyn of no particular color?; 4/13/10, 10:30 AM
Balfegor said...: In academe, the battles are so fierce because the stakes are so small--who give a shit about either the program, the university or the black "bitches."

On the contrary, this has the potential to be a great blow for neo-Victorianism and stuffed shirts everywhere. And I say that half-ironically, but I really mean it. I know I feel a flash of annoyance when some cashier I hardly know calls me "honey" or "darling" or words to that effect, and I can only imagine that my irritation with that unwarranted familiarity and disrespect would be heightened tenfold by being addressed informally as "bitch."; 4/13/10, 10:32 AM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: Yes, I wonder too what the professor's color is. In racialist theory, all white people are racists so that's important.

He is not white. I suppose we could call him 'black' or African American or whatever the latest politically correct term is.

It sounds to me like some pathetic lefty trying to be all ghetto and cool.

You are correct. You don't have to be pasty white from Berkely to be a pathetic lefty. This guy definitely qualifies as both: lefty and pathetic.; 4/13/10, 10:35 AM
Roger J. said...: Balfegor--I understand where you are coming from, but as a son of the south I am used to being called honey, darlin, sweetie, etc--I usually put in context and dont get too excited about it. Plus when you are my age its nice to be called honey!

My take is that this is a slight that will disrupt the academy and they will shit all over themselves taking sides--but this isnt going to make news at 11:00; 4/13/10, 11:00 AM
Hoosier Daddy said...: but as a son of the south I am used to being called honey, darlin, sweetie, etc

Just don't call him Shirley :-); 4/13/10, 11:09 AM
Night2night said...: There's an old saying "If you lay down with dogs you'll get up with fleas.", but apparently Cornell's academic search committee never really bothered to think through the likely outcome of hiring a professor of Dr. Farrad's demeanor. Maybe he was trying to be hip, but more importantly, for Dr. Farrad, "street rules" govern. K.C.Johnson at his blog, "Durham-in-Wonderland", gives a much better synopsis than I can.

Karma and Grant Farrad; 4/13/10, 11:16 AM
Unknown said...: My original thought was in regard to his ethnic, not racial, background, To wit, is he Arab or Moslem? The Blonde has all kinds of war stories about treating male Moslems who order the nurses around as if they were the dirt beneath their feat (needless to say, this is a really bad idea with a woman who makes redheads look even-tempered).

I don't think this is an Imus moment (nappy-headed etc.) as much as a bitter-clinger one. The good prof let slip something of his personal attitudes. I think Joe's wrong about him trying to be hip. I would imagine both women are not amused by the usual gangsta culture.

As always, DBQ is on the money in suggesting this man has problems dealing with race and sex. Maybe he dislikes the attitudes of what he sees as the stereotypical black academic female (I'm using Michelle O as a prototype here).; 4/13/10, 11:23 AM
Roger J. said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/13/10, 11:23 AM
Roger J. said...: I have to tell you that I am absolutely aghast at the idea a bro would diss a couple of sistahs--that doesnt happen here in orange mound memphis, no way no how.
I wonder if the bro wears his pants under his ass like most the bros here in orange mound?.

4/13/10 11:22 AM; 4/13/10, 11:25 AM
Roger J. said...: Probably should have put a sarcasm tag on my post above--god knows I would not want to offend any delicate sensitibilies (another sarcasm tag); 4/13/10, 11:28 AM
MamaM said...: The context was a conference on "Thinking Black Intellectuals".

It sounds like he owes an apology on one if not two more counts.

Intellectual: a person who uses intelligence (thought and reason) and analytical thinking, either in a professional or a personal capacity.; 4/13/10, 11:59 AM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/13/10, 12:09 PM
Anonymous said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 4/13/10, 12:09 PM
Tibore said...: As others have already pointed out, Farred is one of the Duke 88 members. For some information about his behavior during the Lacrosse story as well as in the aftermath, you can look up posts on him at KC Johnson's "Durham-in-Wonderland" blog (link is to a Google search for instances of his name at that domain). It makes for some interesting reading.; 4/13/10, 12:12 PM
Shanna said...: Does context even make a difference? I mean is there a level of intimacy or familiarity that makes it ok to refer to a woman as a bitch?

I had a friend that would answer the phone “hey bitch!” and it never bothered me (but if a professor had greeted me that way it would have been weird). Some people do say it in a jocular manner, which I guess is what this guy was trying to? But if they were strangers to him, so that was stupid.

I don’t know. Weird story.

But don't these two women have anything better to do than to make a ruckus about a comment that was made to them weeks ago?

It seems like the response should have been a conversation about how “that guy was weird” and then moving on, unless they had to work with him on a day to day basis. Was he their professor? I’m not clear on that.; 4/13/10, 1:24 PM
traditionalguy said...: Being a heroic Duke 88 man, means that Karma has found him big time.; 4/13/10, 1:30 PM
MadisonMan said...: Tibore, thanks for that link. Very interesting reading. I'll have to ask some Cornell alums I know about what they think of him.; 4/13/10, 2:12 PM
Alex said...: Althouse has been taking a lot of heat lately for many racist commentators on this site. That's why she said "discuss this topic carefully". There is an EXTRA level scrutiny on Althouse blog right now as well as ALL conservatives. They are all under the racial microscope right now in the wake of teabaggers calling Congressman Lewis a racial epithet.; 4/13/10, 3:04 PM
The Drill SGT said...: Shanna said...
unless they had to work with him on a day to day basis. Was he their professor? I’m not clear on that.

They were grad students in the Africana Studies program/department/center (whatever)

He was a tenured full professor and Farred, who was also the center’s director of graduate studies,

so he was in an oversight position with regard to the 2 women, approving such things as thesis topics? electives? granting credit for course work done elsewhere?; 4/13/10, 3:31 PM
Fr Martin Fox said...: Why wasn't this professor fired?

I'd fire him immediately.

Tenure?; 4/13/10, 4:04 PM
Jeremy said...: Alex said..."Althouse has been taking a lot of heat lately for many racist commentators on this site. That's why she said 'discuss this topic carefully'."

And if you read through the comments, it's impossible not to recognize many as just that...racists.

Ironic, huh?

Ann, you have one hell of a crew hanging out here.; 4/13/10, 4:28 PM
Alex said...: Jeremy - I didn't say that there were racist comments going on. I just said that Althouse has been taking serious heat from the lefty blogs about alleged racism. I'd really like you to put up or shut up.; 4/13/10, 4:37 PM
Jeremy said...: I knew Alex would leap to the defense of his fellow racist tea baggers so you asked for me to put up or shut up?

Read on:

Allen - "Who are the ***** *******? We don't know. Was I careful enough?"

Allen - "Out of all the different commenters on this blog, I wonder how many are ***** *******?"

rdkraus - "If it was a white professor, he would be fired, deported and dead already. I'm being careful here." (Say what??)

ebuzz - "what do these women expect? Really...when you play racial politics, you will get burned...so sit down and have a nice meal of it."

Allen - "It's getting to the point that it would be best to avoid ******* altogether." (Allen evidently has very big problem with people of color)

paul a'barge - "When one black person says it to another black person. It's called the race get-out-of-jail-free card. Common as dirt. No pun intended."

traditionalguy - "What are they bitching about?"

paul a'barge - "This is the kind of incident that makes me not care anymore about anything that black people say."

John - "I thought all black women liked being called "bitches". Or perhaps "Ho's"

AllenS - "I'm not sure if I was being clear enough. I noticed that ******* has the same amount of letters that ******* have."

EDH - "A little sensitivity here. The difference is he probably pronouced it bee-atch-es."

Roger - "I wonder if the bro wears his pants under his ass like most the bros here in orange mound?."

Shanna - "I had a friend that would answer the phone “hey bitch!” and it never bothered me (but if a professor had greeted me that way it would have been weird)." (A professor calling two women "bitches"...is weird?); 4/13/10, 4:47 PM
KCFleming said...: 1) It's the unsolvable problem of rank-ordering victim status.
Does gender trump race?
Do they add up? Like two Queens beating one King?
Does having victim status excuse the mistreatment of other victims?

2) Adulthood is dead. Everyone runs to mommy crying I'm gonna telllll whenever feelings are hurt.

3) That Africana studies major sounds really lucrative. Well, at least for those with tenure.; 4/13/10, 4:48 PM
Alex said...: Jeremy - that's rather thin gruel compared to what comes out of Rev Wright's sermons.; 4/13/10, 4:51 PM
AllenS said...: Suck my dick.; 4/13/10, 4:52 PM
KCFleming said...: Jeremy exceeds even Titus in post ignorability.

He's a scroll-by, not even worth a scan for key words, less informative than genital drawings on a bathroom stall.; 4/13/10, 4:53 PM
Jeremy said...: I see no one can refute the fact that these are all disgusting, infantile racist comments.
All you ever do when confronted with the truth is come right back with inane drivel.

Allen...you're the worst of the bunch. You sound like someone who should be in treatment.

Pogo - Quit whining and post something of relevance.

Alex - What does Wright have to do with your friends posting racist garbage? Are you saying that if he's what you feel is a racist...it's okay for your tea bagger buddies?

The Queen should be ashamed of the comments posted here today.; 4/13/10, 5:05 PM
Jeremy said...: Hey, that worked out great.

The dumber ones here will get two shots at reading my latest comment.; 4/13/10, 5:06 PM
Alex said...: Jeremy - I'm just trying to establish that you and I are in agreement that Rev Wright is a racist.; 4/13/10, 5:07 PM
Jeremy said...: Hey, Pogo...I meant to ask...

Why is it you're so familiar with "genital drawings on a bathroom stall?"; 4/13/10, 5:08 PM
Jeremy said...: Alex - I have nothing to say about Wright, and have no idea what he has to do with your friend's racist comments.

There are racists everywhere, but most don't spend their time on law professor's blog sites posting racist drivel.; 4/13/10, 5:09 PM
KCFleming said...: Jeremy posts are like the Sunday newspaper insert for that pizza place you never go to, and you always have to put it into the recycle pile first thing, or else it winds up fluttering to the floor.; 4/13/10, 5:15 PM
Jeremy said...: Pogo - And yet another childish comment that is irrelevant to the discussion.; 4/13/10, 5:20 PM
KCFleming said...: Insight is the crucial first step.
Good luck with your path to recovery.; 4/13/10, 5:24 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: I knew Alex would leap to the defense of his fellow racist tea baggers so you asked for me to put up or shut up?

Read on:

Only in the fevered swamp of Jeremy's mind can he claim those statements were racist. I mean its funny when you think the topic is a black professor referring to two young black grad students as 'black bitches'.

I mean that is damn funny even for that dipshit.; 4/13/10, 6:27 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Jeremy obviously has no problem with a black man referring to black women as bitches. He would rather point out phantom racists.; 4/13/10, 6:29 PM
Jeremy said...: Corn Cob - "Jeremy obviously has no problem with a black man referring to black women as bitches. He would rather point out phantom racists."

First of all, there's nothing "phantom" about the comments I re-posted. They are racist, and of course, you already know that...but would rather suck up to your fellow tea baggers instead of calling them out for it.

Also; I didn't say anything positive or defensive about the idiot who called these women bitches, and I don't condone what he said, nor would I condone it if directed at any women whether they are black or white.

The comments I made are related to the racist assholes who frequent this site, yet don't have the guts to admit it, or apologize for such disgusting behavior. (Just like you.)

Trying to turn the tables by intimating I am not offended by the professor's comment makes you look dumber than we already know you are.; 4/13/10, 6:38 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Jeremy has no respect for black women which is why he focuses his attention on made up racist comments rather than condemn the black man who insulted the two black female grad students.

Everyone here condemned the comments made except Jeremy. Instead he condemns the commenters.

Very sad. If you had any shame at all you'd apologize for not only being a racist but a mysogonist as well.

Have you no shame sir?; 4/13/10, 6:43 PM
KCFleming said...: Jeremy is flyover country.
Like Iowa, but less interesting.; 4/13/10, 6:43 PM
howzerdo said...: Jeremy, I found some (not all) of the comments you excerpted to be offensive, and also not exactly "careful discussion" but I fail to see why you label Shanna's as disgusting, infantile or racist.; 4/13/10, 6:49 PM
Jeremy said...: Corn Cob - "Everyone here condemned the comments made except Jeremy. Instead he condemns the commenters."

Well, that's a lie.

Show me where "Everyone here condemned the comments made."

And the only people I jumped on were the ones posting the racist bullshit they think is funny.

As for me having to condemn what he said; doesn't it go without saying or posting a comment, that the man said something really stupid and denigrating to the women?

The Queen's opened the door to a discussion relating to whether he said it, whether they should have reported it earlier, and of course, if he did indeed say it...why would he do something so outlandish?

But instead of posting something relevant, you instead come back with the standard drivel, defending your tea bagger racist friends once again by throwing out a nonsensical attack at me.

You're getting dumber by the minute...; 4/13/10, 6:52 PM
Jeremy said...: howzerdo said..."Jeremy, I found some (not all) of the comments you excerpted to be offensive, and also not exactly "careful discussion" but I fail to see why you label Shanna's as disgusting, infantile or racist."

Well, pass that on to any of your black friends and see what they think...or better yet...provide an example of what you feel was not "offensive."

As for Shanna's comment, I posted it because it was ridiculous and for someone to dismiss such a comment by a professor as "weird," opposed to being racist (even for a person of color) just doesn't ring true to me.

If a black boss friend or professor called you a "white bitch" as you entered a room, would you describe that as being really "weird?"

I-doubt-it.

It's just my opinion, and maybe she meant something I don't get.; 4/13/10, 6:57 PM
Jeremy said...: Pogo - Do you EVER say anything that even remotely makes sense?

Give it a shot little man.; 4/13/10, 6:58 PM
Ah Pooh said...: Grant Farred is a dork who absolutely fails at being cool.; 4/13/10, 6:59 PM
Jeremy said...: howzerdo:

Okay, I left out Shanna's comment...now pick out the ones you feel would not be offensive to a black person.

Allen - "Who are the ***** *******? We don't know. Was I careful enough?"

Allen - "Out of all the different commenters on this blog, I wonder how many are ***** *******?"

rdkraus - "If it was a white professor, he would be fired, deported and dead already. I'm being careful here."

ebuzz - "what do these women expect? Really...when you play racial politics, you will get burned...so sit down and have a nice meal of it."

Allen - "It's getting to the point that it would be best to avoid ******* altogether." (Allen evidently has very big problem with people of color)

paul a'barge - "When one black person says it to another black person. It's called the race get-out-of-jail-free card. Common as dirt. No pun intended."

traditionalguy - "What are they bitching about?"

paul a'barge - "This is the kind of incident that makes me not care anymore about anything that black people say."

John - "I thought all black women liked being called "bitches". Or perhaps "Ho's"

AllenS - "I'm not sure if I was being clear enough. I noticed that ******* has the same amount of letters that ******* have."

EDH - "A little sensitivity here. The difference is he probably pronouced it bee-atch-es."

Roger - "I wonder if the bro wears his pants under his ass like most the bros here in orange mound?."; 4/13/10, 7:01 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: As for me having to condemn what he said; doesn't it go without saying or posting a comment, that the man said something really stupid and denigrating to the women?

No it doesn't go without saying. Especially from a racist, mysogonist like you who likes to hide his true colors by pointing out supposed racism in others. See true racists and mysogonists like you project thier pathetic views on to others in order to deflect criticism from themselves. It's an old trick but you don't fool anyone. None of the comments were racist but rather parodying the 'gansta' culture that denigrates women to the extent that a supposed 'intellectual' professor thought it was ok to refer to two women as 'bitches'. But what do you do? Attack the very people who addressed the real problem which is the denigration of women by the very people you defend.

You're a sad pathetic little man Jeremy. I would try and get some therapy. You clearly have some deep seated issues that need resolution.; 4/13/10, 7:21 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Okay, I left out Shanna's comment...now pick out the ones you feel would not be offensive to a black person.

I notice you left out the one that says:

“When you came in, I thought, ‘Who are these black bitches?’ ”

No surprise though.; 4/13/10, 7:24 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Also no surprise you don't know what context is either. But then again that's how a racist, mysogonist projects his faults on others.; 4/13/10, 7:26 PM
MamaM said...: "The abusive individual's problem is rooted in self-absorption. The ability to consider the other person's point of view is obliterated by the absorption with perceived attack, self-defense, etc. This broken individual desperately needs to feel invincible, to win, and be in control. Being wrong, having to "give in," give up, or to place another’s needs before their own is unacceptable. The only thing left, that feels somewhat OK, is to "win." If that's all there is, there is intense pressure to hold onto it.

Honest reality is dangerous. It threatens the little emotional stuff being right affords. Therefore, what-really-happened-in-the-world has to be bent. The angry person must "be right" to feel ok -- even if reality has to be reinvented to justify the angry person’s perspective."

from Dr Irene's Verbal Abuse site

The person/persons who continually post here as Jeremy are not interested in honest participation. Deflection, domination and control through contempt are the names of this abuser's game.

WV Prene...Yes, he comes to prene.; 4/13/10, 7:47 PM
James said...: At 8:21 a.m. Joe said:

The perfesser is Black-yes I know that the article does not mention his race, BUT how many white prof’s are in Africana Studies and two, IF a white professor had called two Black graduate students “b!tches” s/he’d be out the door, or at least in sensitivity training so fast as to make your head spin, so it’s a safe bet Farred is Black- so the University ahs to sort out it’s gongs and see which number of gongs outweighs the others.. now the Professor is Black, one “gong”, but the two students are “womyn” AND WOMYON OF COLOUR, so that’s two gongs…so normally, all things being equal the professor would be in deep trouble…..because he only has one gong.

Actually Grant Farred is a "coloured" South African.

While the U.S. strictly adheres to the "one drop" rule, mixed race or "coloured" people like Farred are accorded status and influence in South Africa. Perhaps Farrad was having flashbacks to apartheid South Africa when he addressed the two students as "black b******."; 4/13/10, 8:20 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: I'm going with the loser pathetic lefty thing.

He thought he was going to be a cool, hipster, with it guy by calling the women "bitches". Backfire clueless dude.

He couldn't count the dozens if you gave him ten.; 4/13/10, 10:11 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: FYI

The dozens is a contest of personal power -- of wit, self-control, verbal ability, mental agility and mental toughness. Defeat can be humiliating; but a skilled contender, win or lose, may gain respect.

Save y'all some time.

This guy definitely loses.; 4/13/10, 10:19 PM
MamaM said...: To be clear, it is Jeremy's contempt I find abusive. Consistently and repeatedly so.

I consider the commenting professor's behavior to have been disrespectful and inappropriate.

Racial reference and derogatory remarks do not constitute an acceptable welcome in any professional setting.

He owes the students he invited a sincere apology.; 4/13/10, 11:40 PM
howzerdo said...: Jeremy, this thread has moved on but I will still respond.

In response to your challenge to me to select the comments in your list that would not be offensive to a black person: (An aside, I am not sure why the adjective "black" was necessary?) There is an interesting debate in the 1996 Philosophy of Education Yearbook between Robert Heslep and Paul Wagner. It applies not just to the comments but to the subjects of this post (the professor and two graduate students).

Listener perception and speaker intentions are both important when considering linguistic modes of cultural disrespect. This is even harder to discern in an online forum than in a face-to-face setting. Is non-PC language acceptable when it is shared between members of the same culture? Is it OK for a woman to tell sexist jokes to another woman? If someone from another culture (or a man) joins in, is that innocent or offensive? Or is it both?

About being called a "white b-tch" by a black boss friend or professor (again, why is the adjective "black" necessary? The graduate students and professor are of the same race), yes, I would think it was "weird," assuming the relationship had been cordial between us in the past, as it seems to have been in this case. If it was instead a pattern, then I would not find it weird, but typical. Would I also find it offensive, regardless? Yes.; 4/15/10, 12:29 AM
David said...: The professor made a stupid and offensive comment. He may have been trying a joke, but that's no excuse.

He's accustomed to getting away with stupid and offensive comments, so it's not surprising he made another one.

The women were properly offended, but now they have made it into a cause. Get ready for life, ladies, where the world does not stop if you are insulted.

The school can't fire the guy. In fact, what can they do? Tell him he's been a bad, bad man and to stand in the corner for three hours?

It's free speech, people. Even speech that's stupid and offensive.

Only on campus do they consistently try to censor or punish speech. This sorry situation is one of the consquences of speech policing.; 4/16/10, 9:25 PM