***
The Democrats immediately shifted into the theory that anger over the bill is simply not allowed. They merged that anger with actual violence, and they took whatever reports and threats of violence they could find and, in turn, merged them with the anger over the bill.
***
Can we identify neutral principles about anger and violence? How much free expression of anger do we accept in our opponents? When will we listen to it as part of a valuable debate? When do we stigmatize it as part of a system of violence? If the answer to the last question is whenever it serves our political interests to do so, then we are making propaganda.
Posts
273 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 273 of 273Dudley - all i have to do is point this out:
Reichstag Fire
"So why is Obama now acting to reward Iran for threatening and attacking the USA and Israel while he crushes Israel for not surrendering? Hmmm?"
Well, for one thing it's a whole lot easier, and you still get a lot of people to like you for it. Europe, the American left, most of the Middle East. The foolishness of people in the ME thinking Israel is more of a danger to them than a nuclear armed Persia is gonna be disastrous to them. Israel has been nuclear for some time and none of them has had to worry about it, unless they wanted a fight. They will not be so lucky with Iran.
The Queen - "The Democrats immediately shifted into the theory that anger over the bill is simply not allowed."
That's bullshit.
It's the insane violence they feel is way over the top.
Why are you lying about this, Ann?
Healthy people express anger when their boundaries and limits are violated. The reason the tea party people are so angry is beacuse they believe that their own government has violated and discarded the Constitution.
If their anger escalates, more and more people will act out. I am not saying that is a right thing to do, but I am saying it will happen increasingly if the public anger grows.
Trey
Healthy people express anger when their boundaries and limits are violated.
But liberals say we are unhealthy, violent, twisted sick fucks.
Email goes out, people show up.
Email? What email? I read about it on the internet.
If you want better media coverage, lose the loose cannons.
In reality, there are people actively involved in groups that call themselves "Tea Parties" , and others who just show up to protest (like myself). The former have no way of controlling the latter, and vice/versa. But I, as an individual, actually have more control- if I don't like the message of the speakers I can choose to leave the rally.
Those in the "movement" can't stop people they don't approve of from showing up at rallies. Everyone has a right to protest. Including crazy people, bigots, and/or people there to stir up trouble. And unfortunately, the media will always choose to focus on them, rather than address the point of the rally.
I agree that those in the movement should make it clear that they do not promote violence. In my opinion, any actual violence that occurs does not come from Tea Partiers. It comes from those who think Tea Parties aren't extreme enough.
"It's the insane violence they feel is way over the top.
Why are you lying about this, Ann?"
Insane violence? You ARE her point.
Just Lurking - why do Tea partiers never challenge the media people who are at the rallies as to why they misrepresent the vast majority of people there and only seem to point out the occasional racist and loon? Why are they so timid?
The temptation to create or fake violence in the name of the Tea Party is probably the most powerful desire right now among the left from the Jeremies all the way to the President. A lot of politicians' careers and the power of the left in general is dependent on it for survival. It's virtually inevitable. If there is not a violent Tea Party action one will be created. Just too tempting at this point.
This sounds like an an excuse in advance, but it also sound true. Sadly true.
If you want better media coverage, lose the loose cannons.
It won't help media coverage. The people at the Cincinnati Party I went to last year about this time couldn't have been nicer, even to the few counter protesters that showed up. But, a TV station reported their crew left early because they "felt" threatened. Somehow none of the other stations felt threatened and during the riots of 2001 crews were on the streets where people were being beaten, windows broken, cars vandalized, etc.
No, too many in today's MSM make up the news to suit their bias. Trying to act in such a was as to please the press is a certain loser (or is it "looser?")
bagoh - but isn't it obvious with what the black Congresscritters did, trying to provoke something? Then later claiming racist taunts and spitting and telling us "we have to just take their word on it", and the MSM slavishly does since they're so brow-beaten since journalism school to accept such nonsense.
But, a TV station reported their crew left early because they "felt" threatened.
the $100K question is - are the swing voters buying the made-up shit from MSM? I think not, witness Glen Beck's soaring ratings where he debunks bullshit like this.
National Geographic warns Global Warming making Tea Partiers more aggressive
No fools, it's your socialist policies that's making us mad.
Just Lurking - why do Tea partiers never challenge the media people who are at the rallies as to why they misrepresent the vast majority of people there and only seem to point out the occasional racist and loon? Why are they so timid?
You mean directly in-their-face confront the media? Maybe some do. Why would you think that would make a difference to a media that has papers to sell to a public willing to lap up all sorts of sensationalism?
And does that even work? Doesn't that fit the narrative that they are an angry mob? There's a no-win situation here. Be polite (which was the nature of all the people I personally met there), and the media will still focus on the individual loonies. Assertively confront the media, and be labelled an angry mob. There will be no fairness from much of the media.
Can we identify neutral principles about anger and violence?
Emotions are subjective by definition and therefore impossible to apply neutrality to.
How much free expression of anger do we accept in our opponents?
Enough so that it doesn't spill over into threats of violence, as your more unhinged (and sometimes, psychologically challenged) readers have wrought.
When will we listen to it as part of a valuable debate?
The emotion itself is irrelevant to the debate.
When do we stigmatize it as part of a system of violence?
When it threatens the system of politics that keeps us freer and more at peace than anarchy and other systems where violence reigns.
If the answer to the last question is whenever it serves our political interests to do so, then we are making propaganda.
I look forward to seeing you attempt to reduce my last response, no matter how "political" it sounds, to "propaganda".
Ann, You make some excellent points in this thread post.
NewHam, Your comments are exceptional.
Debra...
It is very nice to have found such a well handled blog.
"Can we identify neutral principles about anger and violence?"
Here's a few:
Nobody likes it directed at them.
Nobody likes being accused of it
unfairly.
It can be as much counter-productive as productive.
It does have valid purpose under the right conditions.
It's preferable to slavery (this is probably controversial with my leftist friends).
...debunks bullshit like this.
The TV stations claims were debunked but how many heard the debunking as opposed to the widespread original reports?
By their own logic aren't they guilty of inciting abortion bombers actions? Aren't they guilty of inciting abortion doctor murderers to murder abortion doctors? They (the murderers and bombers) are only acting the way they do because of the continuation of abortion which is an incitement to them and their actions. Clearly the solution then is to question what we did to provoke them and the answer is of course, abortions. If we didn't have legal abortion, the killers would have no reason to bomb abortion clinics. Shouldn't pro choicers seek to understand the rage of the pro lifers and allow for their rage?
Your last statement was so brilliant I quoted you on my FAcebook page because it completely expresses my frustration. Thank you.
The TV stations claims were debunked but how many heard the debunking as opposed to the widespread original reports?
Alas, you're right. The MSM still has far more viewers between local/national then Fox News could ever hope. It's a fact that 90% of local media outlets are virulently left-wing.
bagoh20 said...
" Roger J. said...
This blog has really gone to shit
After contributing nothing, Thanks for doing your part.
Bag, that's what the Jeremys and Alphas want - to drive people away. To them, Ann is a traitor because she sees through The Zero. More importantly, there are literate people here who can rebut their talking points. The blog has to be destroyed and those who speak out re-educated. That's what their idols, the VC did. They didn't have to guts to go to Hanoi and do it for real, but they're doing their part for the World Socialist Workers Revolution now.
PS Anyone else note the economic tidings coming out of AT&T, Caterpillar, Honeywell, and John Deere?
It's preferable to slavery (this is probably controversial with my leftist friends).
Which is why I have this quote from Aesop at the top of my blog: "Better starve free than be a fat slave."
"Better starve free than be a fat slave."
That is so my mantra now.
edutcher - the liberal Alinskyite trolls are well on their way to destroying this blog. Pretty soon Ann is going to have to turn off comments as this is just unacceptable.
Hoosier Daddy said...
A) One political party constantly uses violence-laced language to incite people.
I know it always angered me when liberal Democrats would march in the streets chanting "No Justice No Peace!"
================
Not to mention:
Social justice - by ANY means necessary.
From the Beloved Black Prophet - Malcom X
INDUSTRY CAREER OPTIONS
BEFORE OBAMA:
Auto
Banking
Construction
Healthcare
Insurance
Medicine
Real Estate
Wall Street
AFTER OBAMA:
Government Job
Adding, job options before Clinton/Bush Globalism:
Auto
Banking
Construction
Export of US goods to Foreign Lands
Healthcare
High Tech Service Sector Jobs
Insurance
144 Industries the Chinese took from the US - from plywood to pet food.
Jobs Americans Won't Do But Did Before Clinton&Bush's H-1B, Open Borders.
Manufacturing
Medicine
Real Estate
Repair of Bridges & Other Critical Infrastructure
R&D Jobs
Textiles & Clothing
Wall Street
C4,
Considering the devastating effects of trade wars in the past, what would you suggest to have prevented those jobs going to the cheapest producer. Unless the whole world joins you, only your country ends up overpaying in addition to being locked out of their markets.
Ritmo...The anger emotion is a strength so long as it neither causes cause bad enemy identification , like fear reaction can do, nor initiates an untimely attack. The robbed American middleclass needs to find a gutsy leader to channel its anger into a resolve to defeat its actual enemy with a well timed attack. Can you reccommend a good leader for them? The NYT is already reccomending several leaders to the GOP in their noble desire to help.
Althouse, Reynolds, and other bloggers of their ilk rightly highlight the theme that democrats/liberals and republicans/conservatives are fundamentally different 'species'. Through her blogging she mobilizes evidence supporting her thesis that liberals and conservatives function differently when presented with identical forces or challenges. She accurately notes how the perceptions, intellectual processes, and emotional dynamics of democrats and republicans are distinct when faced with life events and smartly recognizes the superiority and greater adaptability of those individuals that comprise the conservative movement.
marklewin,
I mostly agree, but how the hell does that happen with people who share the same culture, education, even family often. I believe it's all values, but how do we get so different?
bagoh20 said...
C4,
Considering the devastating effects of trade wars in the past, what would you suggest to have prevented those jobs going to the cheapest producer. Unless the whole world joins you, only your country ends up overpaying in addition to being locked out of their markets.
I suggest Globalism is unsustainable. Unrestricted free trade is not just killing the USA, but has wiped out the Latin American middle class, hit Europe hard.
Japan and S Korea escaped the carnage because they protect their domestic markets and critical industries and knowledge skill base.
I suggest we abandon stupid right-wing dogma and recognize that we have to be like the Japanese and S Koreans...and to some extent the Europeans which have protected many parts of their economy from destruction by cheap, endless 3rd World labor pools.
Our greatest growth in the American economy and our best rate of improvement in worker skills and prosperity (excepting the false prosperity of the contrived Reagan-Obama era deficit fueled "bubbles" happened when we had tariffs).
And please, don't flop around on the floor like Hayek true believers tend to do, screaming "Smoot-Hawley!! Smoot-Hawley".
It;s as ridiculous as a Leftist blubbering that the Patriot Act shredded the Constitution and all our freedoms.
While the contentious political battle over the new health-care law continues in the United States, in India the outsourcing industry is seeing it as a boon for business and is salivating over its prospects.
Indian companies are working with U.S. insurers handling back-office operations, including claims processing, supply management and transcription services. The extension of health care to 32 million Americans over the next decade will mean that the need for those services will grow, executives here said.
"The health-care reform bill is a very, very big opportunity for us," said Ananda Mukerji, managing director of Firstsource Solutions. He said about 40 percent of the company's business comes from dozens of U.S. hospitals and insurance companies.
"A big part of what we do for the American companies is eligibility assessment services, where we assess eligibility of a patient for the Medicare program. We also work with hospitals to submit claims and enroll new patients. With the new bill, all this work will increase," he said.
"This is not offshoring. I prefer "rightshoring" - there are few tasks American insurers and hospitals do that cannot be done as well and at a far lower cost by our excellent Indian workforce."
C4,
I wouldn't trade Korea's or Japan's success over the last two decades for ours. Especially considering we excelled while also providing their defense and consumer markets as well as everyone else's.
On this:
"Our greatest growth in the American economy and our best rate of improvement in worker skills and prosperity ... happened when we had tariffs)."
Correlation does not prove causation. Virtually everything was different then. We were once a young nation with very different values and workforce. That, I would suggest, was much more important and enough so to overcome trade policy no matter what it was.
But regardless, I just don't think restricting trade is effective. It's like herding cats. The commerce will eventually find the best producers and the most willing customers. They got a fever for each other and today, nothing can hide.
C4 - it's alot easier for the Japs and Koreans to be unified on their industrial/trade policy due to being single-ethnic. I can't see how our polyglot nation can come together about anything.
John Kerry- terrorist:
In 2006, Bill Maher had a conversation with John Kerry. He asked Kerry what he'd gotten his wife for her birthday. Kerry said he had treated her to a vacation in Vermont. Maher said, “You could have went to New Hampshire and killed two birds with one stone.” Kerry replied, “Or I could have gone to 1600 Pennsylvania and killed the real bird with one stone.”
Anyone else note the economic tidings coming out of AT&T, Caterpillar, Honeywell, and John Deere?
Not for long. Henry Waxman, in a fit of manufactured populist fury, sent letters to them, Valero, and 3M demanding they appear before him in the Senate and prostate themselves. How dare they go public with is information. Who do they think they are, public companies or something?
Cedarford: And please, don't flop around on the floor like Hayek true believers tend to do, screaming "Smoot-Hawley!! Smoot-Hawley".
Oh man, I innocently check the comments, and find Cedarford, of all people, typing something I might have said myself, and probably have, somewhere, at some time or other. Weird.
bagoh20: Considering the devastating effects of trade wars in the past...
But we're smack in the middle of a devastating trade war right now, bag, which we're losing badly. That is, if that "we" includes ordinary American wage-earners, both blue- and white-collar, and not just the subset of the population livin' large on the most recent round of globalization. It's a complicated topic, which I wouldn't want to reduce to slogan-slinging, but I think C4 is right that Americans hold a lot of outdated, unexamined, and just plain factually incorrect notions about "free" trade. (And that includes economists who are touchingly befuddled at how their beautiful, beautiful trade theories just ain't delivering the win-win future they'd predicted.) Anyway, just wandering through here, scratching my head.
wv: "allstud". I'm not even going there.
Moira - so what would you do, outlaw Wal Mart from using Chinese suppliers? That's not going to bring textile manufacturing back to the United States. Basically you want to declare war on 3rd world people who have barely subsistence-level jobs.
Things that batshit crazy Republicans believe:
# 57 percent of Republicans (32 percent overall) believe that Obama is a Muslim
# 45 percent of Republicans (25 percent overall) agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was “not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president”
# 38 percent of Republicans (20 percent overall) say that Obama is “doing many of the things that Hitler did”
# Scariest of all, 24 percent of Republicans (14 percent overall) say that Obama “may be the Antichrist.
Alex: I can't see how our polyglot nation can come together about anything.
Guess we're gonna all hang separately, then.
wv: bovindo. The code of the warrior cow.
Collecting more examples of incitements to violence from Republican leaders:
Rep Michael McCaul (R-TX):
"We’re continuing that revolution right here in Austin, Texas today. Thomas Jefferson said the Tree of Liberty will be fed by the blood of tyrants and patriots. You are the modern day patriots."
Nice! Call for blood!
Things that batshit crazy Democrats believe:
98% believe in a free lunch.
96% believe Republicans are batshit crazy and secretly farm poor people for organs.
got a link, bagman?
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-03-22/scary-new-gop-poll
Obama Derangement Syndrome—pathological hatred of the president posing as patriotism—has infected the Republican Party. Here's new data to prove it:
* 67 percent of Republicans (and 40 percent of Americans overall) believe that Obama is a socialist.
The belief that Obama is a “domestic enemy” is widely held—a sign of trouble yet to come.
* 57 percent of Republicans (32 percent overall) believe that Obama is a Muslim
* 45 percent of Republicans (25 percent overall) agree with the Birthers in their belief that Obama was "not born in the United States and so is not eligible to be president"
* 38 percent of Republicans (20 percent overall) say that Obama is "doing many of the things that Hitler did"
* Scariest of all, 24 percent of Republicans (14 percent overall) say that Obama "may be the Antichrist."
Dr Zaius speaks the truth
"Ann, You make some excellent points in this thread post. ... NewHam, Your comments are exceptional."
Thank you, Mrs. Smith.
I have to say, though, that I'm despondent that our country is having to have this conversation, especially in this way.
God works in mysterious ways ... and frequently places directly in our paths that exact barrier that will give us the most pause.
I do not fear for the outcome.
I celebrate the challenge.
I have always believed that while despots may achieve interim victory on a particular battlefield, ultimately they will be defeated. It has always been thus. It must always be so.
It is not the first time we have faced despots who would shackle men, or even enemies within.
We will out.
Of that, I am certain.
I think we'll find out in the next 3-4 years if there is still a majority of people in this country that believes in self-reliance or dependency on government.
Gotta love the Republican who rammed a car with a Dad and his 10-year old daughter. Because they had an Obama sticker on their bumper!!
Quick! Blame the Democrats!
Ann Althouse says pointing this out is just propaganda!
Time to review hiring standards at UW Law School!
Right, Alex! Like the Teabagger and former "militiaman" who urged people to throw bricks through Democratic windows.
It came out today he lives on disability checks - from the government!
So self-reliant!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/25/AR2010032501722_pf.html
I have run a labor intensive manufacturing company for over 2 decades. We are in L.A., the most government intrusive environment possible. Our only real competition is the far east who have copied virtually every one of our products and who's workers make 1/20th of our people's compensation. Regardless, we have grown in the face of that by 1,500% during that time. We now have to sell our products for about half what we did before the chinese found us. We do it and we do it at a healthy profit.
I would love to have no competition, but if not for them, we would be fat and lazy and never would have figured out how to excel at what we do.
I'm just saying, protectionism is like a teacher's union it stifles the protected one's abilities and eventually it will fall and you are left with no ability current or future.
I wish the playing field was more level with them following our environmental regs and protection of intellectual property, but they are not gonna raise their wages to match ours. It just won't happen. If we close our ports someone else will excel while we flounder like protected children.
NewHam:
I've read many of your comments and feel sorry for you. Apparently you will never have a full recovery from your head injury.
Now, the low intellect is understandable but why would such an injury cause such mean-spiritedness? It's a mystery!
More batshit crazy from the right wing. This time, from the brick-throwing dole-living teabagger:
We refuse to participate in the system, and we refuse to pay the fines, and we refuse arrest. Now where do you suppose that’s going but a thousand little Waco’s. .
Quick! Althouse! Blame the Democfats!
BTW, Hayek was more right than most, but I don't care much fer book lernin.
Alpha said: "got a link, bagman?"
Yea, READ THE BILL they just passed. Someone should. It's all about a free lunch and they obviously think we are crazy to accept it. My percentages may be a little low though.
"NewHam, I've read many of your comments and feel sorry for you. Apparently you will never have a full recovery from your head injury."
AlphaLiberal,
That you reach for the Alinsky "ridicule" argument when responding to my posts gives me great pleasure.
What it tells me is that you have no intellectual or logical argument, and are thus left with the last weapon in your weak arsenal.
That you finally engaged me tells me that I got to you. That I reached you. That you cannot ignore my comments.
That you seek to destroy me tells me that I'm on the right track. It tells me that you perceive my comments to be damaging to your cause.
There must be something in what I saw that compels you to attack me in the weakest possible way - ridicule - last vestige of an Alinsky wannabe.
You're pathetic and I bat you around like some child's pinata.
Things that dumb ass liberals believe:
100% posting meaningless figures from stupid polls at pointless times.
100% speaking to remove all doubt they are fools
100% promoting harmony by hurling false accusations
Alpha, every time you call someone a "teabagger" I instantly imagine you as the tea baggee. So far I have imagined you with a large number of the commenters. Are you trying to seduce me?
"Because they had an Obama sticker on their bumper!"
He was speaking Truth to the Power!
Or did you forget that you're the power now? That it is Barack Obama murdering black people in Somalia, and in Yemen. And that he's too pussy to face them directly, but sends his robot drones from Flight Headquarters in Florida.
That it is Barack Obama, your Prince, who wages war upon the brown peoples of South Asia, murdering them from above so as not to have to try them in downtown New York City. No, ... too many points in the Gallup poll would that erase!
Oh wait ... the Nazi show trials were canceled. Too much bad publicity. So, the pawns shall continue to be incarcerated in the Obama Gulag known as Gitmo, promised to be closed, but open for bidness by the Cowboy on the Potomac.
Fucking pinata.
AlphaLiberal,
Why don't you respond to the rampant internet rumours that Barack Obama is having an affair?
Isn't that what this entire rant of yours is designed to cover up?
I'll ask a simple question: Where was Michelle Obama and her kids on the night Barack Obama signed the most important legislation of his nascent Presidency?
Who was she meeting with?
What was she doing?
Why do you ignore these questions and continue to throw up your Red Herrings?
Why was Michelle Obama in New York City? Why was she meeting with her mother and several pastors on the night that Barack Obama was supposedly consumating his greatest Presidential victory?
Why?
Why won't you address the real issues of his crumbling marriage?
Or are you too pussy to get real?
"It's the insane violence they feel is way over the top."
Please provide independent corroborated evidence of the contrived and convenient outbreak of violence. Not mere phony propaganda accusations.
Alex: so what would you do, outlaw Wal Mart from using Chinese suppliers? That's not going to bring textile manufacturing back to the United States. Basically you want to declare war on 3rd world people who have barely subsistence-level jobs.
Like I said, Alex, it's a complicated topic, and beyond the scope of a general-interest blog comments section. Suffice it to say I do understand enough to know that the status quo ain't sustainable, and can't be fixed by "more of the same". (Not even if we jump down, turn around, swallow an eye of newt, and mouth "Smoot Hawley" and "comparative advantage" three times into a mirror at midnight, with all our hearts.) If you want to believe that anybody concerned about our current trade regime is an ignorant populist who doesn't understand the nuts and bolts of why we don't have a textile industry anymore, well, I won't lose any sleep over it.
Basically you want to declare war on 3rd world people who have barely subsistence-level jobs.
I can't tell you how deeply impressed I am by cheap moral posturing.
The Democrats bribed, connived, and cheated to get the bill passed. Regular folks may feel as though they are helpless against a corrupt government. The normal avenues of political debate proved useless. The majority of Americans opposed the bill and won the debate. Without the Democrats' corruption the bill would have died. The Democrats turned respect for rules into a literal farce. Had the Democrats followed the rules the bill would not have become law. The Democrats' lawlessness may be begetting more lawlessness.
NewHam, you are *ridiculous.* You are loosing your mind in your disdain for Michelle, and propagating absurd rumors.
If Michelle were there, there would be even more rumors that she was somehow trying to run the show. Is that what you would have preferred ? The semblance of a co-presidency ?
As Michelle has often said, she is first Mom-in-chief. As has been widely reported, her girls were on spring break, and she took them to NYC to get away. I read there are at least 15 people there with them. What is the big deal about that ?
"Basically you want to declare war on 3rd world people who have barely subsistence-level jobs.
I can't tell you how deeply impressed I am by cheap moral posturing."
Those people will not lose their jobs - they are the best producers. We will just lose our access to them as both producers and customers.
This is not a simple battle between 2 sides, there are a hundred players and they all have different strengths and weaknesses. I don't have an answer that solves it all, but I do think that if decide to not do business with a large portion of the already very capable world, we will be the primary losers.
The genie is already out of the bottle. The rules are not fair, but in a lot of ways we have unfair advantages too. If we want to get into a trade fight, we may quickly learn how much we have to lose. We are 300 million in 6 billion, and we no longer have a huge advantage in any way. The other 5.7 billion people say globalization ain't going nowhere, whether we leave unilaterally or not.
Hey AlphaLiberal:
Anti-abortion Protester Shot Dead
Military recruiter Shot Dead
Pentagon Shooter: 911 Truther, Anti-Bush Loon & Registered Democrat
Leftist Issues Death Threats to Palin & Family
Leftist Death Threats Against Bush Link includes death threats on network TV and in award-winning plays. For extra added fun: a death threat issued by a Nobel Peace Prize laureate is documented.
Leftist Hate Crime Hoaxes:
Here
Here
Here
Here
Leftist Throws Tomatoes at Palin Of course, being a leftist, he couldn't aim for sh*t & hit a cop instead.
Montel Williams hopes for a violent death for Michelle Bachmann
Vandals Strike Military Recruiting Center
Leftists Attack UC Berkeley Chancellor's Home
Leftists Vandalize Churches:
Here
And Harass Christians
Even the NY Times Realizes it
Leftists Bully an Old Woman over her Prop. 8 Contribution
“Burn their f—ing churches to the ground, and then tax the charred timbers,”
Then there are the peace & love leftists who were going to use their peaceful molotov cocktails at the Republican National Convention.
We got yer Bush-as-Nazi here
And, of course, when gov't worker Bill Sparkman turned up dead with the word "FED" written on his chest, the MSM made the immediate assumption that it was anti-gov't conservatives who murdered him.
The guy killed himself.
But he wanted to make it look like a homicide so his son could collect on his life insurance policy. It would have worked if it was the MSM and lefty bloggers investigating his death. Fortunately, the police aren't as bigoted and let the evidence do the talking.
Today Glen Reynolds is rocking a "hate-filled eliminationist rhetoric" theme
Here
Here
Here
Here
Along with a small sampling of the
double-standard two-step
Ooooh, and some leftists are angry at Rep. Jean Schmidt, so they left a polite voice mail outlining their disagreements with her (along with threats of gun violence)
All for now - I'm tired. You can look up your own examples of anti-war protest violence, environmentalist violence, animal rights violence yourself. There's lots to choose from.
Geeze Anita, Do you want a job? I don't have one available, but maybe I can create one. That's initiative.
What's really telling is that there are a bunch of others I know could be added, but you certainly made your point.
This is not a simple battle between 2 sides, there are a hundred players and they all have different strengths and weaknesses. I don't have an answer that solves it all, but I do think that if decide to not do business with a large portion of the already very capable world, we will be the primary losers.
Bag, I don't think anybody's arguing for "closing ports" full stop, or some kind of impossible autarky. Everything you say is true as far as it goes, but with all due respect (your manufacturing success is very impressive, my hat is off to you!), it's all very general and nebulous. The fact is, regardless of whether individual companies, like yours, are surviving and thriving, we run large chronic trade deficits with just about everybody, this translates into lost jobs and chronic high unemployment, and this imbalance isn't sustainable. So how do we deal with these quite specific conditions? Like you, I don't have answers, but I also don't have an ideological horror of "protectionism", because it's pretty obvious to me that all those other billions of capable players out there look out for number one (as they should) by a wide variety of protectionist measures that do not, as a matter of fact, isolate them from world trade and turn them into lazy uncompetitive wastrels.
Anyhoo, getting late. Thanks for the talk.
wv: boted - lost your job to a robot.
bagoh20: The thing is, it didn't take that much time. And you're right, there's much more I could add.
Here's one for the road: The 2009 version of Michelle Malkin's favorite hate mail of the year.
Ahh, the left. They're so much more peaceful and tolerant than those awful right wing haters, no? And not a racist bone in their bodies.
Oops--mea culpa--I said the blog had gone to shit; I meant to say the thread had gone to shit.
I still like the blog.
apologies for anyone offended.
-NewHam, really I didn’t know that we had proud history of political violence in America—I wonder what part you are proud of? For myself I participated in the civil rights movement, the anti-war movement and was an early member of SDS. And like many other lefties distanced myself from the organization when Ayers and Dorn wanted to push for violence. I am proud of the Teach-ins I help organize as well as peaceful demonstrations I participated in- even when I was spat upon. And I support the public demonstrations and debate on HCR, but never have supported the one-side rants of cross hair violence.
The Tucson Tea Party tries to keep out those who shout out and carry signs with hate speech. I actually know (through the local blogs and family/friends in the area) one of the "founders." He totally understands that the presence of these people at his events will reduce the legitimacy of his "movement" which he intends to use to get himself and others elected to the state legislature. I do not attend these events but have heard they are generally calm.
Even so, just the name "Tea Party" is becoming synonymous with the white extremist element that the Tucson Tea Party has tried so hard to avoid. And, politically, this hurts because the votes they need are those of the independents, they already have the votes of the wingnuts.
What I said holds for either side: When you lead a march/protest/movement you lead it, you own it, and your opponents, and the media, will hold you responsible for whatever happens in the course of that protest. It's what went on with Martin Luther King and Civil Rights marches and it's what goes on today for the Tea Party, Move On, or whoever...Your certainly free to go down whatever road you want.
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