"House Democrats who had withheld support of the health care legislation because of abortion concerns said Sunday afternoon that they would back the bill, all but assuring that Democrats would have the 216 votes needed for passage."
(And Wisconsin just lost too.)
ADDED: I'd meant to put a question mark after "It's over" — on the theory that there's still room for an upset. But I didn't, and that's the way it will stay. And WTF Wisconsin! Cornell!
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245 comments:
1 – 200 of 245 Newer› Newest»Victory !!!!!!!!!!!!
On to November. The Dems are going to pay. Dearly. Normal Americans will get their revenge.
We'll see how too nice plays out.
Cowards afraid to stand for freedom and the Constitution against Obama and Pelosi.
@mesquito: Normal Americans may get their revenge, but this abomination of a bill will likely never be repealed.
And therefore, the nanny-statists win.
No, it has just started. two thirds of the American people opposed this particular bill. It can be amended indefinitely or eventually repealed.
This was not Republican opposition, this was voter opposition- from all sides. 220 votes? How many of them will be in congress next year?
Pelosi sealed her temporary legacy. The bill does not kick in for four years, but the tax payments start soon. When people see they are paying for nothing, the anger will deepen.
What kind of economic morons push for and pass a big, bold, comprehensive tax increase- that is all this bill is for now- a tax increase- during the middle of a severe recession?
Isn't that a triumph. Against fierce bipartisan opposition a bare minority of the Democratic party passed a law they did not themselves like. Triumph.
The New York Times can't conjugate the verb to pass?
... hmm, not so sure mesquito. this historic achievement will be touted in the media, the presidents poll numbers will rise. Obama will be the president who continued to fight for what is right, while lowering the deficit.
we may loose a few in the mid-terms, but nothing like what clinton faced.
and Obama will be a 2-term president !!!!
Fuck you, danielle.
A tip for Tea Parties, so that they can be like the WOPR from Wargames and "learn, goddammit, learn!":
A successful Tea Party =
Fiscal conservatism
+
FEDERALISM on social issues
Too many established Republicans are committed to their one-size-fits-all national perspective on social issues. Get rid of those fogies! You don't have a viable opposition until you do.
Loosen up on gay marriage and medical marijuana and abortion and agree to let the states decide. That gets the whole social meal off your plate so that you can more competently dig into the main dish of fiscal conservatism.
this historic achievement will be touted in the media.
Really?!!??
Oops. I meant:
really ?!!??
We will soon be choosing between the tax revenues needed to fund a healthcare mirage that won't materialize for years and the money needed to help job seekers and rebuild and economy that is poised to plunge into a full-scale Depression.
Nice going, congressional idiots.
And the joke you have made of our democratic process is not funny.
GSW: I'm not talking about repeal, as nice as that would be. I'm talking about revenge. I'm talking about sticking it to the whiny hipsters, the feminist shrews, the race hustlers, the communists, the academic poseurs, the hollywood airheads, the cable news cynics and the Democrat Party. I'm talking about wailing and gnashing of teeth. I'm about Susan Sarandon not just talking about moving overseas, but fleeing the country minutes ahead of an outraged mob.
"Moderate" Dems REPRESENT! I love fiscally conservative Dems who will vote for an economic boondoggle.
And Danielle, the press wluld fellate Obama regardless...as they've done since he came on the scene. As for reducing the deficit...when is he planning on starting? Its been over a year and we still are hitting records.
And Nov can be brutally ugly for Dems.
How perfectly symbolic to have Jesse Jackson Jr. presiding over the house as republicans register their objections.
I'm so tired of folks saying...oh no, this bill can NEVER be repealed. Really? If that were the case, we'd be drinking moonshine while whipping our slaves.
And don't forget that the Dems have paved the way for us to repeal it in 2012. We can arm twist, buy votes and use reconciliation to kill it.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander, ja?
Make no mistake, it will be overturned.
...ah, it has begun.
Palladian, its a shame you have not learned to not attack someone with such vitriol just because you disagree with them.
the politically based labels (liberal, left wing nut, progressive, whatever) -- those i find endearing. but curse words ! is that necessary ?
.... you know, i feel that the best response to you today is: SCOREBOARD ! That score would be 216 !!!! WHUT !!!
Keep your eye on Stupak and his cronies. He got bought today, and not with a ridiculous Executive Order.
He's not the only one. What do you suppose he got for his soul?
It's kinda weird (not to mention bad blogging) to keep posting about how you want HCR to fail, but never say why or point to anything to factually support your position. Ah well, it's passing. You lose.
What Palladian said.
This fight has just begun.
They couldn't hold *the Kennedy seat in Massachusetts* because of this monstrosity. There is going to be some serious hell to pay.
Hope your spleen doesn't pop again, Zach. You'll find that the treatment might not be up to the standards you enjoyed last time.
And while you're at it, can you stop promoting bareback videos on your gay porn blog? Now that I'm going to have to foot the bill for parasites like you and your milieu, I don't want to have to pay for any "self-inflicted" conditions like HIV/AIDS.
But you're absolutely correct: We lose. We, being America.
Unless, of course, that you and your filthy party and filthy president are eviscerated in the next couple of elections, which today's "victory" ensures.
Danielle and garage mahal
Sure you can gloat, but it's a pyrrhic victory for the Democratic party that anyone with a brain can see. I hope you enjoy your gloating because when the blowback occurs, Obama will be extremely luck to survive as a political entity in 2012.
Danielle said "...while lowering the deficit"
Please, please tell me you wrote that as a joke?!?
Obama's own budget estimates say he will preside over 4 years of all-time leading deficit spending. His presidency will rack up deficits that exceed 300 percent of those of accumulated by any previous president in 4 years. Bush was a spendthrift, but he doesn't hold a candle to Obama. And all this before the doctor fix, the Medicaid fix, and the other budget lies of Obamacare are evident.
I just wish the November election was tomorrow.
You just WAIT Demoncrats. Just wait til the GOP runs on repealing the pre-existing condition and rescission provisions now law. That will be a big winner. And don't even get me started on the campaign on re-opening of the donut hole costs for seniors!
ZPS wrote: It's kinda weird (not to mention bad blogging) to keep posting about how you want HCR to fail, but never say why or point to anything to factually support your position. Ah well, it's passing. You lose.
Fuck you Zach- you ignored my specific response to you, you pathetic loser.
wv: "torette" Pardon my French.
Ewwww... gay porn... how yucky!
...and bareback too! ewwww!
"There is going to be some serious hell to pay."
Yes, it's actually really fortunate that it all turned out this way. We've forced them to openly act as repulsive and sleazy and criminal and desperate as they actually are in order to shove this unlubricated butt-plug up America's ass. And the price for this display is going to be very heavy for them, indeed. There will be electoral blood. And if not, there will be actual blood. They haven't yet succeeded in completely killing the independent American spirit.
verification word: sleasi. WHOA! I had that same verification word just a few minutes ago in another thread. The CAPTCHA robot knows the score. sleasi, indeed.
danielle said: ".... you know, i feel that the best response to you today is: SCOREBOARD !"
Wow. I feel like an extra in the movie "Idiocracy". These are the adolescents now in charge of our economy.
danielle, when clinics start to shut down (because they're no longer profitable -- they operate on pretty thin margins already and an increasing number of medicare/medicaid patients who pay just 70% of their bill should be enough to put many of them under), and then medical costs go up even more because of less supply, and it becomes a big snowball and everything goes to shit, I'll come to you and ask you if you still feel all "Yay team".
When I have to drop insurance for my employees, I'll come to you and thank you, on their behalf, for helping to bring this about, in whatever wee tiny way it was that you helped.
When I have to shut down my business and lay off everyone I know, because an extra trillion dollars or so of extra taxes during a recession will be the final nail in this economy's coffin, I'll see if you'd still like to do your endzone dance.
Keep talking Danielle. That score board has a way of changing. And when it does, there is going to be nothing to save you or any of the ilk that are helping to destroy this country. Because we know now exactly how you people treat the minority. Expect to be treated much worse.
Tonight we become Greece. Break out the ouzo!
I just hate that we now have to rely on Republicans, of all people, to reverse this.
Even if they win a big majority in 2010 or 2012, I just don't see them having the mettle to appeal it. By that time too many people will see it owed them, just like Social Security or Medicare. And Republicans (for the most part) have proven again and again that they are unable to effectively argue these issues.
When Bush tried to reform SS, the left was able to simply reply "YOU WANT TO TAKE AWAY SOCIAL SECURITY!!!" And it worked.
Republican politicians simply don't have the debating/communication skills that are needed to fight against government entitlements.
Oh well. I hope they prove me wrong.
Victory, and well in time for Easter. And make no mistake - this is a permanent victory, like the ones for Medicare, Medicaid and the New Deal. There will be some tinkering here and there (starting perhaps with the reconciliation items this week), but the HCR bill to be passed tonight won't be repealed, ever. Mark my words on that one. For starters, you'd need to have the GOP get a 2/3s majority to override a Presidential veto on that HCR repeal (assuming they even would want to try that rather than just talk about it - not likely), which won't happen as long as Obama is in office, which is at least until January 20, 2013 and is probably (if recent history is any guide) until January 20, 2017. Not to mention, once it's up and running, I suspect a lot of people will be pleased with the changes to the insurance system. A great day for the Democrats, and more importantly, a great day for America.
Yeah Danielle, 16% real unemployment, losing our AAA bond rating, signs of inflation, more debt in 14 months than in the last 8 years combined, yeah TEAM BLUE!!
garage said: You just WAIT Demoncrats. Just wait til the GOP runs on repealing the pre-existing condition and rescission provisions now law.
Right, that's definitely what they'll run on, not on repealing individual mandate, tax increases, medicare cuts.
@Pastfarian, why do you risk carpal tunnel syndrome trying to explain elementary microeconomics to a 21st century liberal? I thought better of you, man.
garage mahal
The GOP does not have too, all they have to do is show the complete Obamacare law and the costs to the American citizens to all 50 States . They will be the ones who will ask that this law should be repealed by election of all 50 States.
danielle said...
Victory !!!!!!!!!!!!
Just what Emperor Hirohito and Tojo said on December 8, 1941.
Re: mosquito
Right. Opa!
Cornell be good.
"We're number 1 in the Ivory Leak!!"
"I suspect a lot of people will be pleased with the changes to the insurance system. A great day for the Democrats, and more importantly, a great day for America."
You fucking imbicile. It is going to raise people's insurance premiums. They are going to force young people to buy insurance to subsidize old people. They are going to take away your ability to buy cheap insurance. Everyone will have to buy the gold plated Obama variety. And then if you make more than 100K a year you will get no subsidy to help you buy it.
It is a nightmare. It is worse than single payer. It is all the drawbacks of socialism with none of security. We know from the MassCare experiment the thing is unsustainable. The State Tresurer says the system will bankrupt the country.
And you and Danille think it will reduce the deficit. Are you that sutpid or are you on someone's payroll to say this shit?
And Pastafarian, when none of what you said happens, I do hope you'll report back your friends here on how wrong you are.
"Ewwww... gay porn... how yucky!
...and bareback too! ewwww!"
As I've said before, I have nothing against porn, gay or otherwise. I'm just using the Alinsky tactics. All's fair in hate and war, you know.
I do have something against "bareback" sex, having seen my share of friends and acquaintances die of AIDS complications back in the day. Criminals like the people Zachary works for don't care about the health of younger gay people that don't remember how bad it was and are willing to exploit baser instincts to make a profit. But now that I'm going to be paying for everyone's medical care, I don't want to be saddled with the cost of an HIV drug regimen needed as a consequence of "self-inflicted" behavior (to use Zachary's phrase). In fact, now that health is a public matter, I think we should lobby to shut the entire porn industry down, since it promotes unhealthy practices just like the tobacco industry, the alcohol industry, the restaurant industry. It's time to use the power of the State to wipe out all these destructive forces in the name of America's Health. It's now a public matter and people can't be trusted to make choices anymore!
And medicare advantage is dead now. Older people love that thing. This bill is not like other entitlements. Other entitlements benefit the middle class. That is how we got into this mess. The entitlements bribe the middle class and gets votes. Well, this bill screws the middle class and screws them immediately. It will not remain popular like other entitlements.
Encouraged to see Republicans think repealing health care is an electoral winner. And the threats of violence and spilled blood as the way to court voters.
I think the Democrats plan is to say that they deserve reelection because either:
"The Republicans want to take away your healthcare."
or:
"We need the time to fix this bill."
They will definitely be touting this as a historic achievement, as if people aren't sick of the word "historic" already.
I'm sure some Democrats who would have voted for the bill will vote against it now that there is a margin for them to hide behind, and they'll be around to hold Republican efforts in check should they gain in the next election.
Anyway, it was Nancy Pelosi's big gamble and we'll see how it turns out. Get ready for unexpected consequences.
Oh well. This will do a lot of harm to health care in America (and, given our role as an innovator, the rest of the world too). But hopefully we'll be able to undo it before too much harm is done.
In the past it has been hard to eliminate entitlements once they are enacted. It should be easier this time, since the "benefits" aren't scheduled to take effect for years yet -- I doubt people will be reluctant to give up benefits they have never seen.
ZPS, It's pretty rich for you to ask for "factual support" from anyone else. I don't think you've once defended any of Obama's policies or tactics. You consistently stop by only to criticize commenters for criticizing! Lame.
Just wait til the GOP runs on repealing the pre-existing condition and rescission provisions now law.
you hear that sucking sound garage? it's all the healthy people leaving the insured pool. the rational choice is to pay the fine and not buy insurance until you have a preexisting condition. did your premium just go down?
Rev, I hope you are right. I think that's the only hope.
"Because we know now exactly how you people treat the minority. Expect to be treated much worse."
Except we're not the minority, we're the majority. Isn't it funny?! The minority gets to impose things on the majority now! That makes statists like danielle dampen her panties!
And that kind of thing also causes wars!
Encouraged to see Republicans think repealing health care is an electoral winner.
Around ninety percent of independent voters already have health insurance. So this will be about repealing the cost increases the Democrats just inflicted on them, not about "repealing health care". :)
John: And medicare advantage is dead now.
I don't think so. I think that all of the healthcare problems created by this bill will be excuses for the Democrats to raise taxes and increase control over the rest of the economy. The popular programs will be the hostages they use to get their way.
From now on, every election will be about health care, which will grow more and more scarce and more and more expensive, and delivered by stone-faced time-servers with foreign accents staring over our shoulders at the clock.
"We need the time to fix this bill."
I love that. Yeah the bill sucks but we can fix it honest. Forget it Dems. You know own the health care system. Everytime something bad happens, people are going to blame you. you have health care reform, now you own it. Good luck with that.
BigMike, I'm venting.
Somefeller and garage are right, though. This will never be repealed. What was that quote by de Tocqueville? America will last only until the government realizes that it can bribe the public with their own money, paraphrasing.
I just wish they were right about this bill being "self-funding". We're going to insure tens of millions of additional people, and we're going to force insurance companies to "insure" people with pre-existing conditions (can we still even call it "insurance" if you're already sick? Can I go out and get car insurance after I run down 3 pedestrians?) -- and the money for this is just going to materialize from the aether.
My ten-year-old daughter says the health insurance bill reminds her of what she's studying in history at the moment: The Stamp Act.
I don't know if garage and somefeller realize just how fragile the economy is at the moment. I think that they think that you can just continue to tax and tax and tax, with no end, until everyone makes the same salary, and the economy will just continue to hum along.
"I don't think so."
It killed it everywhere but Florida. That was one of the buy outs.
Stupak and his crowd think they can say they voted for "life" because there will be "language" in the final bill.
I can hear it in November, "I was against the bill before I was for it". We know how that turned out.
danielle said...
Victory !!!!!!!!!!!!
That's what the Nips thought at Midway before they realized there were 3 American carriers, not 2.
... hmm, not so sure mesquito. this historic achievement will be touted in the media, the presidents poll numbers will rise. Obama will be the president who continued to fight for what is right, while lowering the deficit.
Yes, imperial hubris has always gone down well in this country. This is a system that doesn't work in Britain or Canada and is more about power than health, or did you miss the admission that 30 million would still be uninsured?
As for the deficit, that's an accounting trick which assumes the GDP stays the same in the face of all the new taxes. Keep drinking that Kool-Aid, kid, just as Jim Jones told you to do.
we may loose a few in the mid-terms, but nothing like what clinton faced.
Keep telling yourself that. Considering the Demos have 50 fewer safe seats than usual, that should give you a big boost.
Peter V. Bella said...
No, it has just started. two thirds of the American people opposed this particular bill. It can be amended indefinitely or eventually repealed.
...
Pelosi sealed her temporary legacy. The bill does not kick in for four years, but the tax payments start soon. When people see they are paying for nothing, the anger will deepen.
What kind of economic morons push for and pass a big, bold, comprehensive tax increase- that is all this bill is for now- a tax increase- during the middle of a severe recession?
You've got it. The majority of the people don't want this and it will make a bad economy worse. The conventional wisdom about inability to repeal may not apply here when even the U-3 hits 20.
"We need the time to fix this bill."
I love that. Yeah the bill sucks but we can fix it honest.
Has "we fucked up but if you keep electing us we'll correct our mistakes" ever been a winning platform for a political party? Didn't work too well for the Republicans in 2006, as I recall.
I doubt people will be reluctant to give up benefits they have never seen.
Except for the fact that 15 provisions take effect immediately. Pre-existing condition discrimination. Rescission. Closing the donut hole coverage gap for seniors. Small business tax credits. Dependent coverage extension.
"And the threats of violence and spilled blood as the way to court voters."
That only comes after it's proven that these problems can't be ironed out in the voting booth, when it becomes clear that the voters don't matter anymore. And the way things are going and the complete lack of respect your comrades have for representative democracy, it's not just a fantasy.
As my friend T.J. wrote so many years ago:
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Your side believes in a Living Constitution. I believe in a Living Declaration of Independence. Those words are still alive. And the malign spirit of George III never died either.
Lowering the deficit?
From the NYT, hardly a conservative rag: Removing the unrealistic annual Medicare savings ($463 billion) and the stolen annual revenues from Social Security and long-term care insurance ($123 billion), and adding in the annual spending that so far is not accounted for ($114 billion) quickly generates additional deficits of $562 billion in the first 10 years. And the nation would be on the hook for two more entitlement programs rapidly expanding as far as the eye can see.
Liberal fascism marches one and smiles at itself approvingly in the mirror.
Comrade X: the rational choice is to pay the fine and not buy insurance until you have a preexisting condition. did your premium just go down?
As insurance companies shut down or charge ridiculous rates, Medicaid and Medicare will require more and more money, because those are the only places anyone who wants insurance will be able to go. The fees the government charges to pay for those services will simply keep going up. And no one will stand in the way of the increased fees because nobody wants to force "grandma" to die of cancer.
Professor, my understanding of Constitutional Law has always been that the Executive Branch (be it the President or some lowly bureaucrat given rule making power by Congress) can not issue any "order" that is contrary to a statute.
Or, as the Bard would put it:
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them?
Glendower: Why, I can teach thee, cousin, to command
The devil.
Hotspur: And I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil
By telling truth: tell truth and shame the devil.
If thou have power to raise him, bring him hither,
And I'll be sworn I have power to shame him hence.
O! while you live, tell truth and shame the devil!'
By using the EO to allay pro-life dems (Stupak) they are admitting the bill they said would not provide federal funding for abortion, will, in fact do so.
Hope they get that promise kept.
Liars
@Professor, regarding the Wisconsin - Cornell game, a real Ivy beat a "public Ivy." What's so surprising about that?
Since our federal gov't is going to now save so much money that will lower our debt, why don;t we give free health care to the rest of the world and save
$100,000,000,000,000
Shit, there goes my stocks and retirement funds.
It bears repeating:
O! while you live, tell truth and shame the devil!'
This "health reform" is built on lies.
Shame!!!!!
Interesting picture in the link of Stupak. Seems to be hanging his head in shame -- as he damn well should!
Except for the fact that 15 provisions take effect immediately. Pre-existing condition discrimination. Rescission. Closing the donut hole coverage gap for seniors. Small business tax credits. Dependent coverage extension.
Sure, and the small minority of Americans who benefit from those things might be happy about them, if they work out. But the rest of America will just see their insurance rates go through the roof with no offsetting benefits.
This bill is political cancer. That's why Pelosi had such a nightmarish time getting her own party to support it.
The important word in my quote is not "right" but "duty".
I think they should delay the signing of this Bill of Attainder until Tax Day. Symbolism is important on such an historic occasion!
Happy Dependence Day!
On to the courts and civil disobedience. I will not submit to this socialist coup.
BTW, Obama has lied about everything else, including not raising taxes on families making less than $150,000 (which he's about to do), so why do these asshole politicians think he's not lying about abortion?
danielle said: "And Pastafarian, when none of what you said happens, I do hope you'll report back your friends here on how wrong you are."
I'm sorry, danielle; I missed your mea culpa when the theory of anthropogenic global warming was recently and quite thoroughly discredited. I'm sure you, and every other liberal here, posted somewhere that you were wrong to have suggested derailing the world economy for a bag of Al Gore's magic beans.
danielle, I'm not talking about making an argument with an anonymous twit in a comments section. I don't give a fuck who wins and who loses this argument. I'm talking about having to drop our insurance, when a couple of my employees' children have serious chronic conditions.
I'm talking about having to lay those same employees off in an economy where they have very little chance of finding another job.
Can you understand the potential ramifications of your team's big win? Do you realize that they extend beyond the little warm-fuzzy feeling of affirmation that it gave you?
To remind everyone-
Obama is doing an Executive Order to go against his own party.
It takes a Democrat to write as special Executive Order Restricting Abortion.
This may all still blow up of course. the Republicans are saying that the "fix" bill will be subject to filibuster, because it contains changes to Social Security and therefore cannot be passed through reconciliation.
Frum:
So today’s defeat for free-market economics and Republican values is a huge win for the conservative entertainment industry. Their listeners and viewers will now be even more enraged, even more frustrated, even more disappointed in everybody except the responsibility-free talkers on television and radio. For them, it’s mission accomplished. For the cause they purport to represent, it’s Waterloo all right: ours.
I thought long and hard about this, and thought the option that would do the most harm to the democrats in congress, and the most damage to the progressive agenda, was for the bill to pass. If things are going to get worse, they may as well get worse quickly and in a dramatic fashion.
It's really, truly, a terrible bill. There is little in it for anyone to cheer - except Obama who can hope to fool the terminally uninformed by claiming a major legislative accomplishment that will (he hopes) save his presidency.
Meanwhile, in the land of reality, inhabited by ordinary Americans, the damaging ramifications will be soon felt - higher taxes, higher premiums, reduced service as doctors flee the ever more tangled and inhospitable regulatory noose placed over healthcare.
November is going to be glorious, and the time between now and November is going to be the townhalls of last August squared. The American people are roused, they are (finally) aware of the agenda of this dangerously radical administration, and are finally aware of the supreme economic ignorance suffusing all their decisions.
America is already hurting economically, so of course it makes sense to start raising taxes and premiums and adding another multi-trillion dollar mandate to the already growing deficit.
@Pastfarian, yeah, I know. I feel that way too.
But it doesn't do much good.
Now backing Republican candidates who are pledged to repeal the bill, that's worth doing.
We might toss pre-existing conditions to garage as a sop, who seems perfectly prepared to see the US "go Greek" to get what he wants out of the bill.
"
Can you understand the potential ramifications of your team's big win? Do you realize that they extend beyond the little warm-fuzzy feeling of affirmation that it gave you?"
They. Don't. Care.
This is not about anything but stickin' it to the Man. And you and the rest of the productive class is the Man.
Sha na na na na na na live for today...
Cornell is good - it killed my school Temple.
I was busy painting a room blue to memorialize the USA is now a deep blue socialist country. Nostrooovuuh!
Stupak was too obviously enjoying the spotlight. So he delayed his lockstep decision. I am sure he has a good job offer from Comrade Obama.
That only comes after it's proven that these problems can't be ironed out in the voting booth, when it becomes clear that the voters don't matter anymore. And the way things are going and the complete lack of respect your comrades have for representative democracy, it's not just a fantasy.
You sound just like a jilted lover. Jealous. Paranoid. Desperate. "If I can't have Her, nobody will!" Pathetic.
In other words the Liberals are trying the usual tenth grade argument and equating the the signing statements of President Bush to this Executive Order by Obama.
Problem is Obama did not have an opposing party in either the House or the Senate.
@danielle, in the past you liberals have passed bad legislation and the rest of us have sucked it up and figured out how to make it work. This time's different, sweetheart (sweat hard?) because you're planning to increase what I pay while putting my own and my family's access to healthcare at risk. That's very, very different.
You've sown the wind. Do you know the rest of the quote?
It takes a Democrat to write as special Executive Order Restricting Abortion.
Sorry Madawaskan- in view of Obama's pedigree in Chicago style politics, I fail to find irony in that. I see only duplicity.
Maybe you should explain what you meant for those of us who missed your meaning? :)
the rational choice is to pay the fine and not buy insurance until you have a preexisting condition.
LOL. My husband and I were just talking about that. We currently have a high-deductible plan with an HSA to help out with medical bills. If they raise the premium and eliminate the HSA, there will be no point in keeping it.
Why the fuck would anyone contribute to a system that puts the burden on the people who play by the rules?
And we have to thank anyone who bought into the idea that Obama was a moderate or that Democrats are looking out for the interests of the middle class.
Guess what- the only way to fix this now will be to give Republicans the Presidency, a majority in the house, and a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate.
Basically, it won't happen because, for whatever reason, some people who oppose what Democrats actually do still want to be Democrats. Our lovely blog hostess is a prime example.
Looks like the tea bagger idiots here were wrong again.
Health Reform will pass.
Suck on that.
"The Dems are going to pay. Dearly. Normal Americans will get their revenge"
True. Obama just became a 1 term President (if he was not already) and Democrats just lost the House this coming election.
They might also lose the Senate, but that's a closer deal.
But that won't be enough to undo what has been done. For that, we will need a GOP supermajority in the Senate. And that won't happen next election, and likely not the next, and probably not ever.
Mass delusion by a population often has consequences that are frightening in magnitude. So it is, once again.
This is the change that the far left had been waiting for. They'd thank you very sincerely except that they have no respect at all for rubes.
Also, I was able to face the vote with equanimity today. Whether the bill passed or failed, Obama's agenda and his carefully built image are shattered beyond repair.
The eyes of America have been opened. They are finally aware that Obama the candidate bears no resemblance to Obama the radical president.
Obama promised not to have an insurance mandate - and yet we have an insurance mandate
Obama promised not to tax 'cadillac' health plans - and yet taxing them we are.
Obama promised to usher in a new era of government transparency - no one can plausibly claim this anymore, given the twisted and convoluted technical loopholes the Democrats have been trying to jump through.
Obama promised a new era of government ethics - this has been shattered in the face of the least ethical congress in history. On top of the problems of Murtha, Rangel and Dodd, the rampant and brazen bribery needed to pass such an odious bill forever puts the 'ethics' claim to rest.
Obama promised a new era of government accountability - the wide and fervent bipartisan opposition to this bill, which will nevertheless be rammed down the throat of the American public, on razor thin divisive party line votes, puts the lie to that claim as well.
All in all, it's amazing that a president like Obama who barely more than a year ago was inaugurated with such loud adoration, and has enjoyed the constant and unflagging support and cheerleading of the media, is already more unpopular than Bush was after 8 years.
I think all the elements are in place for a perfect storm in November. It will be a wild ride. And fun, if you enjoy the idea of living in a political thriller.
Bart Stupak's opponent Dr. Dan Benishek seems to be adding fans to his Facebook page at the rate of 25-30 a minute.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wall&ref=share&gid=287806148754
I wonder if the White House will even remember who Stupak is tomorrow. His use is over so doubtful.
Great Post by David Frum: Waterloo
Lots of good stuff:
"This time, when we went for all the marbles, we ended with none."
"We followed the most radical voices in the party and the movement, and they led us to abject and irreversible defeat."
and...
"Talk radio thrives on confrontation and recrimination. When Rush Limbaugh said that he wanted President Obama to fail, he was intelligently explaining his own interests. What he omitted to say – but what is equally true – is that he also wants Republicans to fail. If Republicans succeed – if they govern successfully in office and negotiate attractive compromises out of office – Rush’s listeners get less angry. And if they are less angry, they listen to the radio less, and hear fewer ads for Sleepnumber beds."
Woo hoo! Do what you do best Republicans: Attack him!
Health Reform will pass.
???
Every comment on this thread acknowledges that.
Knox, I'm in the exact same boat. I'm self-employed, and pay all my medical bills up to $5,000, when my high-deductable plan kicks in. I've never used it, but I've payed every month so I could be Mr. Good Citizen. Fuck that.
mesquito writes: On to November. The Dems are going to pay. Dearly. Normal Americans will get their revenge.
That's hilarious. How dumb does someone have to be to think that everyone else thinks like them and opposes and supports the same things? How dumb does someone have to be to be unable to understand basic electoral math such as just not having the numbers in certain districts?
How dumb? TeapartyDumb.
Those who are smart and sane who want to have a political impact should ignore the partiers and help promote this plan instead. Don't be TeapartyDumb.
Evidently, lonewacko.com is not a normal American.
The only hope for the United States as a free country is economic implosion. A mammoth depression will utterly discredit statism and lead to the violent overthrow of our communist overlords in Washington. Barring that event Americans will settle into comfortable serfdom.
Oh and, the thing congressional democrats desire more earnestly than anything else is for the healthcare issue to go away. That would have happened had the bill come up and been defeated.
But since it was passed (and is so odious in nearly every particular) healthcare is going to be an issue from now until...possibly forever. It's not going to be buried and forgotten by November, certainly.
The lawsuits over the obvious constitutionally questionable passages, if nothing else, will see to that.
For people worried that the passage of HCR is going to fundamentally re-align American politics and lead to a civilization of children, suckling at the government teat - I don't see it. Primarily for the reason that the 'high taxes, high entitlements' model is everywhere crashing and burning. That model is inherently self sustaining. If indeed we went that route, (as we seem to be going) I doubt our economy would survive it.
Ha ha ha ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!1!!
It's a great day for America, and a great day to be an American -- a real American, not one of you inbred moonshine-distilling Althouse hillbillies.
Now I can get my genital wart problem treated, and I won't have to cut into my hashish budget to do it.
I was worried that I might have to do without, and purchase less expensive domestic salmon, and kale instead of arrugula , with my Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program stamps...and maybe go out and get a "job"...but now I don't have to worry. You Rethuglicans working at your little widget factories can pay to have them lasered off.
PWNNNNED!!!!!!!!111!!
Thank you, President Obama. I love you.
Ah, well. Obama and the Dems ran on this. This is what their supporters wanted.
Elections have consequences. In this case, tragic. Such a terribly sad day.
Alas, the republicans can't fix it! For now, it is a slow road to regaining seats.
But what about the democrapic party? They'll lose some seats. But up ahead, they can vote pelosi out. You'd be surprised how some powerful got voted out, before.
Anyone remember Tower? Just having power doesn't keep you untouchable.
While Mitch McConnell in the senate, with steele, are two disasters. They're not going to stop this train wreck.
It's more like a "Kent State" day than a good day. More people are healthy, than not. So more people won't be put through the ringer.
While some doctors are so terribly in debt, they can't throw in the towel, and just retire. Meanwhile, whenever there is a war, body bags pile up.
Power will remain in the hands of a few. pelosi is counting on this. And, so, too, the bamster. To take away choice, first you remove choice from the warehouse.
It's not official until it's on Drudge.
I am not going to waste my time to day with this cursed Blogger.
I just lost my comment and this is a waste of my time when it eats them through conflicting edits.
I am not as convinced as most that the Democrats will pay a huge price in November. If the economy improves, that will outweigh just about everything. The major problems with this "reform" are all in the future. The current economy is now.
It will be interesting to see how the stock market reacts Monday. I predict up. An uncertainty removed. (Until everyone focuses on the greater uncertainties created.)
I'm with AlphLiberal!! Woo hoo!!
Free health care for all!!! We've been liberated from our oppressors, and we'll soon enough be liberated from these genital warts!!!
What bribe did Stupak accept? (and it wasn't some dumb presidential order)
Expect to see billions flowing to a few congressional districts.
That model is inherently self sustaining.
I think you meant the opposite, Dewave.
You can't trust government with money and entitlements.
Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid have been run into the ground, and that's despite the fact we've had three wealth manias over the past 30 years.
Well, guess who's run the purse strings of the government over the past seven decades while those entitlement programs have bled the economy and gone bust? Hint: Starts with "D" and ends with "s" and includes "rats."
Republicans have had maybe 8 years of the House-Senate-Presidency trifecta since the 1930's.
Now the Democrats will enact yet another large tax-and-spend entitlement program. This one too will go bust, all the while increasing unemployment and ruining the country's already-dire fiscal situation.
Moral of the story: Having Democrats in power is economic and fiscal suicide. Those who vote for them are drinking the political Hemlock.
I guess I have more faith in Americans than you guys. The revolution will start in the next election.
People are pissed and their votes and voices will be heard! For instance, Althouse is a barometer- I bet she will even vote against Feingold if it will help bring balance back to the Senate.
Frum is full of crap, as usual. If the Republicans had made a deal with Obama for a healthcare bill that's 5% less crappy than the one that passed, we'd be even worse off than we are now.
At least this way, everyone will know who's responsible when their health insurance costs double in a few years.
@JAL mouse-copy a long comment before you hit publish. Then you can put it back if you have to try again.
Conflicting edits doesn't always mean it didn't go in, these days, incidentally.
They've upgraded the bug a little.
Is it really over?
The House passed Health Care before..
2x is a charm?
And so begins the litigation.
The question now is; does the Supreme Court have the balls to actually follow the US Constitution? Or will we now know the date and time that the grand experiment failed?
JAL said . . .
Did I mention that the Sunday paper I brought home from London last week said the 18 week waiting list for medical procedures was down to only 600,000 people? (From 1.3 million 12 years ago.)
Here are recent waiting times in Scotland for cancer treatments.
"Urgently referred acute" patients wait 31 days for treatment.
I don't think it's over. The Senate has to vote on the fix, and with Scott Brown the Dems don't have 60 votes to override the Reps' point of order that they can't "fix" a bill of this type.
This is going to be tied up in procedural issues and lawsuits for months to come. Thank goodness!
Victory? At the expense of the American Tax payer and the economy.
Party line vote is a disgusting way to accomplish a goal that obviously goes against the will of the majority.
Delusional Palladian said something about a spleen and, as usual, wrong again! Don't have one. Also, never promoted bareback, so I guess it's just more rantings from a lunatic. Is the passage of great legislation frying his brain, or did he eat too many Ding Dongs (pun intended) and is in a sugar meltdown?
Also,
YOU LOSE!!! Just like you lost in November 2008. Again. HAHA! Suck it up, bitches. And just try and complain once the deficit, unemployment rate, and health insurance costs all go down.
Lowering the deficit?
No other president in history has raised the deficit to such dangerous levels in such a short time. HRC: The CBO states clearly that this will not reduce the deficit.
The democrat talking points say it will, but they are deceptively double counting the funds and undercutting the time.
This thing is also the LARGEST TAX INCREASE in history.
It's big.
AprilApple said..."Victory? At the expense of the American Tax payer and the economy. Party line vote is a disgusting way to accomplish a goal that obviously goes against the will of the majority."
How is a party line vote bad, when the Republicans have been voting in lockstep at every turn? It's okay for the GOP, but not the Democrats?
As for the economy, where were you during the eight years Bush blew through a massive surplus, spent more than any President in our nation's history, started two wars, signed an 800 billion dollar bailout, and left a massive deficit.
This is just the same right wing nonsense the tea baggers and wing nuts have been spewing for the last year.
Oh, and a "majority" of Americans are not against health care reform. There are all kinds of polls, each dependent upon how it's worded, that produce all kinds of responses.
Ding dongs!!! Ah, what a double entendre'!! Suck on that one, Palladian, you fascist bastard!!!
ZPS, I'd like to collect your pithy comments and make them into a coffee table book. The illustrations would be ribald photos of semi-nude African American men, with President Obama's head photoshopped onto them.
Would you like to enter into such a venture with me?
Cornell is now a marxist powerhouse and a sports powerhouse. All the Ithican Reds have gone from pouting to popping their buttons for Big Red. Then when you add in today's Victory for Social Justice... well, it's enough to fill a slave with pride.
"The Senate has to vote on the fix"
Actually, no they don't need to vote on any fix.
Obama can sign into law the Senate bill, and there is nothing that makes the 'fix' have to happen.
Hell, he could *veto* the fix.
I don't think it's over. The Senate has to vote on the fix, and with Scott Brown the Dems don't have 60 votes to override the Reps' point of order that they can't "fix" a bill of this type.
Well, the fix might never happen, but the bill they just voted on will become law anyway.
AprilApple said..."Lowering the deficit? The CBO states clearly that this will not reduce the deficit."
Which part of this don't you understand?
CBO estimates final health bill will cut deficit | Reuters
Mar 18, 2010 ...
The Congressional Budget Office said Thursday a final healthcare bill with changes sought by congressional Democrats would reduce the deficit by $138 billion over 10 years.
ZPS, we all lose. Even if this bill did what you said, blatantly violating the constitution isn't worth it. The civil liberties you find so dear are next.
Here is the thing .. this is like so many people that were duped into buying mcmansions they could not afford..
This "victory" is going to be short lived.. savor it while it lasts.
All the voting in the world is not going to make deficits go away.
Oh, they removed the spleen? So now we have to pay for your increased infection rate? Great!
"Is the passage of great legislation frying his brain, or did he eat too many Ding Dongs (pun intended) and is in a sugar meltdown?"
Ding Dongs? You're the one eating too many ding-dongs ("hey man, if you let me suck you off I'll totally promote you on the Unzipped blog!"). I suppose its natural that low-bred trash like Zachary think that fat people only get fat from cheap junk food. But there are better and more pleasurable ways to get fat. Bring on the pâté de foie gras and the Ch. Yquem! That is, before those things are entirely out of the reach of the productive class because of the expense of sustaining spleenless spleen-venters.
Jeremy's absolutely right. I just saw a poll from the unbiased, non-partisan Center for American Progress, that showed that a full 51% of the American people want health care reform now.
And 85% of them strongly approve of the job our beloved President is doing.
And 90% of them wouldn't mind if we dropped the pretense of "capitalism" completely and just admitted that we all want the US to be a socialist nation, and join the rest of civilized society.
So SUCK ON THAT, you wing nuts!!! It's science!! And the science is really settled this time!!!
Garage and friends have been saying for a year that what's wrong with the Tea Parties is that they're old and white. Now they say all the old people will love ZeroCare. The old white people you hate so much are the ones who oppose this mess, morons. They'll be the ones out to vote in November.
Yes, I know, Andy Stern and Wade Rathke will get all the poor voters out (you know, Mickey Mouse and Dick Tracy), so Barry will be saved. Too bad ACORN's vote fraud doesn't work when the people turn out en masse.
They say all the stuff about pre-existing conditions kicks in right away. Guess again, reconciliation is up next, which means more time.
You took this round by buying off a few people who claimed to be anti-abortion until they thought they could play both ends by being given some cover. Hardly the stuff of statesmanship, but in no way vindication. What's going to be fun is watching Stupak and his friends when they realize the truth of what Rush has been saying for a year, "Everything Barack Obama says has an expiration date".
And consider this, ZeroCare is an appropriation bill that began in the Senate. By approving it, the House committed an unconstitutional act. Let's see, now, didn't The Won just declare war on SCOTUS?
Joe said..."Expect to see billions flowing to a few congressional districts."
Billions???
Duh.
In an alternative universe, Wisconsin won and Obamacare went down.
My only question is how do I get there.
ALEA IACTA EST
And consider this, ZeroCare is an appropriation bill that began in the Senate. By approving it, the House committed an unconstitutional act. Let's see, now, didn't The Won just declare war on SCOTUS?
No, they took an irrelevant House Bill with appropriations provisions and turned it into the Senate Bill. That's why the Senate Bill had H.R. numbers, rather than S. numbers, like bills originating in the Senate.
Yeah, Joe. Billions? How dumb are you Rethuglicans? Mary Landrieu's vote only cost a couple hundred million.
Duh.
Lem said..."All the voting in the world is not going to make deficits go away."
What kind of massive "deficit" did we have when George W. Bush came into office, Lem?
Were you asleep during his tenure?
George W. Bush came into office with an advantage few presidents have enjoyed -- a $230 billion surplus....
Hello?
We cant poll our way out of deficits either.
Even socialist need funds to run peoples lives.. the question remains.. Where are we going to get the money to pay for this?
DUH!
Balfegor, I think you're right -- the Democrats have crossed the Rubicon now, and there's no going back, for them or for us.
The only way they have is forward -- next immigration "reform", then cap-and-tax, then card check.
DUH??
"The only way they have is forward -- next immigration "reform", then cap-and-tax, then card check."
DUH! DUH!! DUH!!!
We cant go back in time to relieve the Bush years Jeremy.. you want something for nothing .. just have the fortitude to say so.
I want something for nothing.
Palladian said..."Yes, we Americans do lose. Even you are right once in a while, even though you're too stupid to realize it."
Who the hell do you think voted President Obama into office, dumb shit?
Obama signs this tax-payer funded deficit buster tonight.
But good news!
Longer wait times, fewer doctors, more bureaucracy, massive IRS expansion, explosive debt, the end of the Pax Americana, and global Armageddon. Must try to look on the bright side...
-Mark Steyn
WTF, Wisconsin is right. I'm a fan of Bo's until the tournament start. That's not changing, I see.
I've been in the car the last 5 hours, unable to follow the vote and, in a sense it was frustrating. Not suprised by the reaction here. I suspect the world will keep spinning in spite of both of these outcomes...
I was Tweeting with someone from Britain and I think everyone needs to remember this is a bill about health insurance NOT health care. Our pseudo-NHS is Medicaid, and this bill is going to kick people out of it. The poorest people in our society are being screwed by this bill and liberals are deluding themselves that it is some sort of victory.
Palladian, you fascist bastard. You've gone too far this time.
How dare you speak of our beloved President's magical cock?
It's like speaking the name of the God of the Hebrews. It is forbidden. You have soiled His cock with your filthy teabagger mouth.
Thanks Ann! You voted for this!
"Who the hell do you think voted President Obama into office, dumb shit?"
A bunch of dumb shits.
DUH!!!!1
I just posted this on my site, but it's worth repeating here for the much larger audence:
Is It Really Over?
Now that Stupak has apparently caved, everyone, right and left, seems to be assuming that Obama's health care monstrosity will pass the House in the next couple of hours. Are we so sure? What if there really are enough Democrats opposed to it to kill it? They would have a strong incentive to pretend otherwise. If they all tell Pelosi the truth about how
they plan to vote, she will delay the vote and keep on pressuring and naging and harassing and threatening and attempting to bribe them for days or weeks or months, and so will the demonstrators on the other side (but without the bribes), making their lives a living Hell. The only way to end the ordeal is to convince Pelosi she'll win so she
holds the vote tonight. I won't say it's probable, but it's certainly possible that a few
anti-HCR Democrats are lying to Pelosi, or slyly misleading her, so they can finally get the voting over with and kill the bill tonight. They could always claim afterwards that they were quite sincere 'yes' votes the last time they talked to her but their wives or grandmothers or bishops - maybe even their constituents! - changed their minds between then and when they actually cast their votes. They could even plausibly claim that the horror of the whole degrading spectacle finally got to them and they suddenly asked
themselves "What the Hell am I doing voting for this evil monstrosity?" (the bill, I mean, not Pelosi).
We can always hope. Polls have been wrong before.
It will lower the deficit...provided one ignores the Medicare doc fix that will wipe all that out in one shot. And provided that tough political choices Dems will never make are done. And provided you don't calculate from the start of the actual expenditures.
Progressives seem inordinately fond of lying to themselves. And hearing an Obamaton bemoan Bushs spending is hilarious. NOBODY spends like Obama.
Lem said..."We cant go back in time to relieve the Bush years Jeremy.."
Just as YOU and others can't tell what the future will bring...but you can't constantly complain about a deficit, when your own candidate created much of the situation in the first place. (Did you complain when Bush signed the 800 Billion Dollar bailout?)
Of course not.
All of yours and others bitching and whining is based on nothing more than partisan bullshit.
Where are we going to get the money to pay for this?
Where else. The United States of China.
Yeah, Palladian, Jeremy's right.
Duh.
A majority of Americans voted President Obama into office. Over 60 million of them. Way more than 50% of all Americans. Do the math.
And now they deserve whatever they get.
"It's like speaking the name of the God of the Hebrews. It is forbidden. You have soiled His cock with your filthy teabagger mouth."
As much as I like big black cock, I wouldn't let that thing near my mouth. On principle.
Obama is going to be speaking after the final House vote. I hear that he is going to have former president Harry Truman alongside him, and will present Truman as the first to sign up for a new government-specified health insurance policy.
damikesc - Name a previous President who spent more than George W. Bush.
Name one who created a bigger deficit.
Ann, this is on you and your ilk. You asked for this crap.
I just wish the November election was tomorrow.
Indeed. Or this would have been a great year to change Election Day to April 15, which I still think would be a great idea.
"I hear that he is going to have former president Harry Truman alongside him, and will present Truman as the first to sign up for a new government-specified health insurance policy."
Democrats are good at recruiting dead people. It's one of their strongest constituencies.
oh come off it Pastafarian. The very point of the bill is to reduce costs for small businesses like yours. contrary to the details of the bill that give tax credits to small business owners, you seem to believe that wont happen. I disagree with you on that.
my request to let your friends here know the outcome has to do with all Americans knowing exactly what happens as a result of the bill and not relying on vague notions of 'socialism' and 'government control' as reasons to oppose the bill. You know, the facts -- as opposed to the republican talking points.
I support the bill because I do think it is in the best interest of its citizens, now and into the future. Clearly there is more work to do on realigning incentives to lower costs and to improve outcomes.
though you'd probably prefer to think otherwise, this was a victory for the American people. all the people i know who supported the bill supported it for this reason.
And damikesc, it must be a PREVIOUS president. Subsequent presidents are excluded.
This is a huge "screw you America" from the democrat party.
We shall see what happens next.
It's a sad, sad, sad day. A legislative monstrosity, reckless, ruinous, inconceivably bad, is foisted upon our country. And yes-- we *all* lose, even if those gloating here, clueless, don't realize it (yet).
The Rubicon crossing was inbound, not outbound.
Obama is spending 4x the Bush spending rate leaving Bush in the dust..
Just the facts Jeremy. No BS.
I have a job at a healthy company and pay a lot for health insurance. I'm probably going to benefit from this bill, while poor people will lose their Medicaid coverage. It's sick.
"all the people i know who supported the bill supported it for this reason."
No, all the people who support this bill support it because they're morons. Or because they were bought and paid for. Or because they're parasites. Or all of the above.
George W. Bush came into office with an advantage few presidents have enjoyed -- a $230 billion surplus...
True in terms of yearly budget, wrong in terms of overall debt. There was a budget surplus due to a stock bubble, not anything Clinton did (except to reappoint Greenspan who acted like an irresponsible ass by keeping interest rates too low) and a consequential windfall in tax revenues; this would have vanished regardless of who was president. There was still a massive debt.
That said, I was very irritated at Bush and the GOP for squandering even this budgetary surplus and not using it to pay down the debt. The lack of integrity of these assholes has created the nightmare that we are in.
I must say, President Pelosi is really getting things d
Prefer, Danielle? No, I'd prefer to stick my head in the sand and pretend that we can insure tens of millions of additional people, and mandate coverage of pre-existing conditions, without bankrupting hospitals and causing premiums to skyrocket.
I'd also prefer to pretend that my shit smells like roses. But I'm not stupid enough to smear it all over myself before going to work in the morning.
Any "tax credits" for small business owners MUST be dwarfed by the increased premiums to cover these new costs. Jesus Christ, it's simple arithmetic. You can't create wealth just by moving it from one person to another.
But I'll be sure to report back to you in July, when (if) we renew our insurance contract. Because you really do care, don't you?
yashu said..."It's a sad, sad, sad day. A legislative monstrosity, reckless, ruinous, inconceivably bad, is foisted upon our country."
It's being "foisted," it's being voted on using a legislative process that our country is founded upon...and that even includes nary a single vote from the GOP.
And if it bothers you so much, why not leave and see if things are better elsewhere?
With Stupak's collapse, passage of the Democrats' government medicine bill is assured. This is a dark day in American history; one of the darkest.
I've never been prouder to be a Republican. The party's Congressional leaders have fought this battle to the end on behalf of the American people--with intelligence, toughness, persistence and good humor. The contrast between the parties has never been starker than in today's debate. If any intelligent Democrats were watching--there must be some left--they had to be embarrassed for their party.
The health care debate has energized the conservative movement and awoken the sleeping giant, that is, the American people. The Democrats misinterpreted their electoral victories in 2006 and 2008 as a mandate for socialism. Now a majority of voters are intent on disabusing them of that misapprehension. Just about all of the political energy today is on the right--a remarkable fact, only sixteen months after the Democrats' high-water mark in November 2008.
Barack Obama has used his political capital--pretty much all of it--on unpopular legislation that will continue to rile the voters for years to come. As a result, Obama is a remarkably unpopular second-year President. And he hasn't even experienced any bad luck yet. It is hard to see how he will be able to regain his footing.
Palladian: "No, all the people who support this bill support it because they're morons. Or because they were bought and paid for. Or because they're parasites. Or all of the above."
I take offense at that, Palladian. As you can see from my earlier comments, I need this health care bill, so that I can have my genital warts lasered off.
Are you calling me a parasite, just because I don't have a "job"?
I'll have you know that I serve a vital function in society. As a Womyn's Studies major, 13 year, with an advanced degree in Queer Sciences, I am society's higher-level brain. Its frontal lobes, if you will.
You worker bees, you're fingers, more maybe if you're lucky, elbows.
Joe said..."True in terms of yearly budget, wrong in terms of overall debt. There was a budget surplus due to a stock bubble..."
Blah, blah, blah.
Clinton was President during 8 of our country's most spectacular economic growth in our nation's history, and it's way too late to be blathering on about how he really didn't do anything.
And are you trying to say that if you produce a personal cash surplus via stocks you've purchased or other investments...it isn't really a "surplus?"
Bush came inherited a surplus...period.
38 state legislatures- over two thirds of the states- have bills basically saying they will not comply with the imposition of the law. Idaho and Virginia's governors have already signed their bills. The elected AGs in these states will be forming legal strategy as soon s their governors sign.
This whole atrocity, an attack on our personal freedom to appease a boisterous small minority is heading for major legal challenges- note the plural.
As Steyn says so eloquently, say goodbye to Pax Americana. We cannot have guns and butter.
The European Left that Democrats have so envied for decades were able to choose butter because we bought the guns. We have now made a decision. The world's despots have taken notice.
Anton said..."With Stupak's collapse, passage of the Democrats' government medicine bill is assured. This is a dark day in American history; one of the darkest."
Move.
Jeremy said: "And are you trying to say that if you produce a personal cash surplus via stocks you've purchased or other investments...it isn't really a "surplus?""
Right. Duh.
What you have then is unearned income. That's how President Obama defines such ill-gotten gains, from filthy investments: Thus the term "tax on unearned income."
That money isn't even yours, you filthy investors. You didn't earn it. Hand it over.
Name a previous President who spent more than George W. Bush.
Name one who created a bigger deficit.
It's totally cheating when you require a "previous" president. The problem isn't Bush II. We had big deficits, then, but as a percentage of GDP, those deficits were perfectly sustainable. They peaked at 3.5% of GDP in 2004 (see page 13) lower than in 1990-1993, 1982-1986, and 1976.
The problem is that we're now running monthly deficits as large as some of Bush II's annual deficits (specifically, 2002 and 2007, and almost as large as 2006 -- see page 12). And that's not just a problem in terms of nominal dollars, but in terms of % of GDP too -- we were up to 9.3% of GDP in 2009. When Obama's first term is done, he'll have beaten Bush II's deficits by a mile. It won't even be a contest.
Palladian: No, all the people who support this bill support it because they're morons. Or because they were bought and paid for. Or because they're parasites. Or all of the above.
Making the bill better became about making the bill more likely to be passed, far too long ago. That is where they lost their way.
It's gotten so bad that Obama can annunciate the philosophical underpinnings of liberalism to them and they forgot to clap. They only care about declaring victory, not unlike Bush in Iraq. That's their problem.
Jeremy said: "Move."
Yeah, who needs you parasites with your "jobs" and your "incomes"???
Jeremy and I will get along fine without you and your dirty unearned income.
This comment thread went through an interesting gayfight phase but now it has gotten booooorrriiinnnggg...
A lesbo catfight would have had much more inertia to it. Would some hot lesbian Althouse readers please get into some heated arguments and phrase their attacks in oral sex terms in the next thread? Interracial is a plus. Thanks.
I would like to invite the ObamaNation gals to come back for the November elections..
We'll have a party ;)
I suspect they wont as they are not going to be celebrating that night.
This administration is a Chicago-style political machine that has already been caught offering a federal job to a candidate to drop out of a race. My predicition: there will be FAR FAR more to come out about what Obama and his cronies have done to get this passed. It will not be pretty and it will bring down his presidency if he doesn't bow out of 2012 first on his own.
Jeremy, if we can get these...undesirables... to leave, can we then divide up their belongings and dwellings amongst us party elites?
Perhaps we should consider deporting them, since they're so unhappy here. Or maybe we could come up with a more final solution to the hillbilly problem.
Jeremy, the surplus wasn't the result of fundamental changes to government expenditures, but due to a windfall. That's fine (and it was squandered) but it wasn't going to last. Moreover, the economic policies that contributed to the bubble ultimately resulted in our current recession.
(And do note that Clinton benefited from the economic policies of Reagan and Bush. I also tip my hat to Clinton's free trade policies and his work to revamp the disastrous welfare program, both of which did help.
I also clearly stated that GW Bush and the GOP squandered what they were given. But before you pat yourself on the back, note that the democrats more than gladly went along and, in fact, demanded spending increase even more! Alas, they've gotten their wish.)
Balfegor - Unless you can tell the future, which you can't, you have no idea of where our deficit will stand in 2 years, 5 years or ten years.
When Bush took office, did you assume (or predict) he would spend the kind of money he spent?
I doubt it.
And, as anyone who reads and understand economics knows, President Obama inherited a worldwide economic crisis that necessitated dramatics actions will either play out in a positive manner or negative.
But you and others who spend every day bitching and whining about anything Obama proposes know no more than anyone else what the future will bring.
You're just throwing out the same bullshit Beck, Hannity and the tea bagger crowd say every day of the week.
Pastafarian said: The only way they have is forward -- next immigration "reform", then cap-and-tax, then card check.
Possible silver lining- Lindsay Grahmesty declared the other day that if O-Care passes, immigration "reform" is dead in the Senate. Of course, he's probably lying.
Jeremy, name a President whose ever had a deficit close to what Obama is pulling?
See, if you wish to bitch about Bushs spending, your guy best be better in that area than the guy you are crying about.
Obama makes Bush look cheap.
Joe said..."Jeremy, the surplus wasn't the result of fundamental changes to government expenditures, but due to a windfall."
So the eight years of economic growth that paid off the deficits and created the surplus, was just a "windfall?"
Then what do you call what Bush left behind?
Good lord...
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