Health care required, as a health care reform opponent gets his finger bitten off — apparently and amazingly by someone so compassionate as to support health care for all.
ADDED: The bitten man tells his story:
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180 comments:
An eye-witness called in to Rush with another story, the old guy was singled out by the goon, who was standing like baseball manager against umpire and heaping abuse.
So who was aggressive and who was defending is up in the air.
I fully expect a fair, and impartial analysis of said event from Althouse commenters.
He must have thought that he was a she ;)
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)
Maybe he was looking for the gay marriage protest and wondered into the health care protest.
wv - bucto - to comit a-buctory is to wonder into the wrong protest.
Oh great, Moveon.org is now astroturfing with flesh-eating zombies.
"Digital" brown shirts, Pelosi-style.
This is disgraceful.
The money it took to reattach that sixty-five year old pinky would have been much better spent on an environmental impact study for a brand new high-speed rail line.
I expect a fair and impartial analysis by the local law enforcement authorities. That way we wont have to listen to the bullshit from either side.
This Administration's use of thug tactics is getting exposed everwhere, and they are continuing to do it with Media cover. The attempt at Marxist creation of another Chavez/Castro tyranny in Honduras has been 100% supported by Obama, and the Government Media today are 100% pretending that Obama is only fighting a good fight for Democratic Government. Wake up America!This Presidency is being exposed every day that passes as a serious attempt to destroy American life.
We'll have a better idea about probable truths if pictures of the participants get published.
Note to self: if participating in one of these events, bring a video camera.
WV: "mednes" -- okay that's just creepy.
Do moonbats carry rabies?
The biter had to be a doctor looking for a payday. The Messiah told us to be on the look out for greedy docs looking to lop off granny's feet. So why not be wary of a zombie doctor looking to bite off and then sew back on grandpa's finger. There's got to be good money there.
Here comes the Poligrip commercial.
This is the only way the Left will convince us that we need universal healthcare. By making us seek it out, one finger at a time.
I fully expect a fair, and impartial analysis of said event from Althouse commenters.
Well that counts you out.
Calm down, everyone.
Every moonbat gets one bite.
True compassion is intimately coupled with humility, the state of living without enmity toward others.
Compassion without humility is fake compassion, because it will always divide the group and only be compassionate towards one favored part.
That is why the idea of one political party claiming to have more compassion than another is a illusion and a joke.
no, no, you don't understand. he bit the finger off to get his ring... the ring of power... the one ring to rule them all.
btw, um, fair minded analysis. is there two sides to the story when one person visciously bites the finger off another?
Its like of like Chappaquidick. how exactly are there two sides to that? manslaughter shouldn't be a partisan issue: it should instantly disqualify you from office. there are some things where there aren't two equally valid points of view.
mind you, if we were talking about a fist fight, that would be one thing. self-defense cases can be murky. but how exacly do you bite off a person's finger in self-defense?
This is the only way the Left will convince us that we need universal healthcare. By making us seek it out, one finger at a time..
Well, the guy got it re-attached by a universal single payer healthcare program, Medicare.
I heard this is part of Obama's new Digital Healthcare strategy.
Get it? Digit-al?
Is this thing on?
Pinkies are such useless digits, I wonder if this old man's health insurance (assuming he has any) will pay to have it reattached.
This is why people are bringing guns to these protests ... so that they can protect themselves from the ObamaCare thugs bussed in from outside to provide "protection."
A 65-year-old senior citizen has his finger amputated by an Obama thug.
This is probably going to get ugly before it's all over with - and maybe that just has to happen.
I remember vividly the last time I got into a fight with a 65-year-old. My only recourse was to bite her finger off.
"mind you, if we were talking about a fist fight, that would be one thing. self-defense cases can be murky. but how exacly do you bite off a person's finger in self-defense?"
Good point. On consideration, I'd bet Old Guy was pointing his finger in Young-Hero-of-the-Health-Care-Revolution's face, and Young Hero just suddenly got peckish.
Happens all the time.
Lord I hope there's video.
from Karoli @ drumsnwhistles.com:
One petite woman was also handing out single payer flyers. She was passionate about it, but not rude, not mean, always smiled, and simply offered the flyer. At some point, she crossed back over (she may have run out of her flyer supply. I don’t know for sure. But she was not in any way confrontational.)
All of a sudden, I saw a very tall man in an orange shirt (yes, he is in the photo I linked you to) confront her, verbally at first. Her back was to the thruway, and he was shooing her, approaching her, speaking to her in a very aggressive fashion (observation from body language only) and waving his arms in a shooing motion. With each step she took back, he took one forward, shooing her more. From where I was, it appeared as though he were telling her to get on her own side of the street, and backing it up with a very clear physical threat. Even from where I stood, it chilled me. I pointed it out to others and called out for anyone with a video camera to aim it over there. (I had a small Nikon cam with me that does video, but it would have been useless in that light.)
Ultimately, she did cross the street and come back over to our side.
Several minutes later, there was another altercation. My best recollection is that this man saw what happened to the woman and reacted to it. I cannot say with certainty where he was when he saw it — he may have arrived and was navigating his way through that group, or he may have crossed the street to defend her. He was confronted by the same man. I could tell from where I was that the man was belligerent, angry, and confrontational.
The man in the orange shirt hit the pro-reform guy (I’m going to call him PR Guy just to keep the players straight). Hard. (tweeted in real time) He punched him in the face, knocked him to the ground and into that thruway. As you can see from the photo, cars drive straight through that without stopping. The pro-reform guy could have been run over. He got up, tried to get back up on the curb, but Orange Shirt guy was in his face. Finger in his face, PR Guy standing, steps up to the curb, and there’s a scuffle. Orange shirt seemed to have PR Guy in a hold, but again, I was across the street, so won’t state that as absolute fact. Next thing I see is PR Guy’s hat being tossed into the street, both yelling at one another, then Orange shirt walks away, PR Guy picks up hat and crosses to our side.
When he gets to our side, he tells a story in one sentence: “He punched me hard, straight in the face, so I bit his finger off.”
garage,
Medicare isn't universal, and it doesn't sew back on anything. It pays--often poorly--for doctors to sew thing back on.
Pinkies help us stay upright ;)
That's right, gm and ZPS: Never give an inch!
That old guy serves as an example of all the good things government can do, especially when government incites people to do ill.
Would deadly force be justified in repelling Jaw's attack? Given how some deadly diseases can be transmitted I'd think that it just might be.
I'll bet the attacker wouldn't have tried this on the guy's carrying openly in Phoenix...
Gotta love compassionate libs.
It takes two to tangle, and perhaps Althouse would care to weigh in on Glenn Reynolds earlier promoting "boisterous" activities and crowing about how those on his side at other events outnumbered those on the other side.
If you oppose UHC and you want to do something effective, you can't follow incompetent and self-interested leaders who seem to only want to put on a show.
What you need to do is form local groups and find a local trial lawyer or similar and have them ask questions like these.
Your leaders don't want you to ask things like that, in some cases because it would have an impact on the bottom lines of their funders. Instead, they just want you to put on a show and have tantrums. Don't let those corrupt, incompetent leaders drag you down to their level.
This is why people are bringing guns to these protests ... so that they can protect themselves from the ObamaCare thugs bussed in from outside to provide "protection."
Well, Britain and Spain went to war over Jenkins' Ear, so maybe there is precedent for a little skirmish over this fellow's finger.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Jenkins%27_Ear
If a cranky old crank punched me in the face, I would punch him back. Not sure I would go for the pinky bite. You could hurt your teeth.
But when you start something don't be surprised if it leads somewhere unpleasant.
The link at Drudge said the authorities are still looking for the biter.
So why didn't he turn himself in right away?
He must have some interesting ideas about the proper role of government.
Eh, my bad. People seldom use their pinkies when pointing in other people's faces. Old Guy must have been using some kind of weird Kung Fu Shooing move on Young-Hero-of-the-Health-Care-Revolution.
FLS:
Karoli is a communist name right?
"But when you start something don't be surprised if it leads somewhere unpleasant."
From FLS' relayed account, it sounds like Young-Hero-of-the-Health-Care-Revolution walked across the street looking for a fight.
If Old Guy did throw a punch, all I can say is he was stupid. Young-Hero obviously believes in the Chicago Way.
"Medicare isn't universal, and it doesn't sew back on anything. It pays--often poorly--for doctors to sew thing back on."
Medicare doesn't pay for a goddamned thing.
Taxpayers paid for it. We paid for it out of the 1.5% withholding from every paycheck. It's OUR MONEY.
Garage is a moron. Someone clearly bit his brain off some time ago.
Whoa. Kind of ugly from the liberals here. I...don't know what to say.
Mark,
It's the Wu Xi finger hold!
“He punched me hard, straight in the face, so I bit his finger off.”
Quite right. What else could he have done? Who among has not experienced an uncontrollable urge to bite somebody's finger off under similar circumstances?
"The link at Drudge said the authorities are still looking for the biter."
They already know who he is. He's an activist in the employ of MoveOn.Org who was bussed in from out of town.
The problem here is that firebrands went out and told their followers to "argue with [their] neighbors" and "get in their face".
Karoli is a communist name right?
If you're thinking about
gymnastics coach Bela Karolyi, the US granted him political asylum. Once here, he opened up a gym in Oklahoma. So I would say the Communist stigma has been obliterated.
I'm not going to pass judgment here, other than to say that violence begets violence.
Sounds like a goon with an eccentric appetite.
"He punched me hard, straight in the face, so I bit his ear off."
Whoops. Wrong fight. There are rules in boxing.
The Protest Will Be Digital
Code Pinkie
{ok,ok, I'll stop.}
Florida,
Right you are. I'll further correct my post. Medicare slow-pays doctors with our tax dollars after foisting off ridiculous administrative costs on the docs, who then are forced to pass the costs and revenue shortfalls on to--tax payers.
It's good work if you can get it.
I predicted, at a prior Althouse post, that there will be blood.
There will be more.
"'There will be blood'"Harvard economic historian Niall Ferguson predicts prolonged financial hardship, even civil war, before the ‘Great Recession' ends
Heather Scoffield: Is a violent resolution to this crisis inevitable?
Niall Ferguson: “There will be blood, in the sense that a crisis of this magnitude is bound to increase political as well as economic [conflict]. It is bound to destabilize some countries. It will cause civil wars to break out, that have been dormant. It will topple governments that were moderate and bring in governments that are extreme. These things are pretty predictable. The question is whether the general destabilization, the return of, if you like, political risk, ultimately leads to something really big in the realm of geopolitics. That seems a less certain outcome."
What's with the sudden use of the terms "pro health reform" and "anti health reform"?
Just wondering.
Just for reference that poem-The Revolution Will NOt Be Televised doesn't E.J. Dionne that old hippie remember that?
Please pay no attention to the townhall...
E.J. Dionne;
It's also clear that the anger that got so much attention largely reflects a fringe right-wing view opposed to all sorts of government programs most Americans support. Much as the far left of the antiwar movement commanded wide coverage during the Vietnam years, so now are extremists on the right hogging the media stage — with the media's complicity.
Dionne's conclusion-The only people that are upset about this behemoth of a bill are those fringe elements...
wv:hoses [ DJ Dionne hose the facts.]
I'm not going to pass judgment here, other than to say that violence begets violence.
fls keeps a clean sheet, never taking a position contrary to anyone who might be an ideological partner.
Never mind that fls's posted email account contradicts the police account in the original article.
Lindyborer: my guess is it gets Obama's name off the package.
First, it was Big Oil
Then, it was Big Tonsil
Now, it's Big Tooth.
WV: brinders
Oh, no, not that next!
Lindy:
Yes good catch.
Leave it to the MSM to decide the label "pro reform" should be used for the good guys (Obamabots) and "anti reform" for the troglodyte obstructionists.
The finger was re-attached - courtesy of Medicare (a successful government-run health program).
"The finger was re-attached - courtesy of Medicare (a successful government-run health program).
Another proud Democratic Kopechne moment.
Like her, I bet the old guy thought it was worth it.
This one's easy:
If everyone had stayed on their own side of the street there wouldn't have been any trouble.
Medicare (a successful government-run health program).
Depends how you define success. Are the enrollees happy? Generally, yes. Is the program so far in the red that it's continued existance is in serious doubt? Also, yes.
Former Law Student quotes a moonbat who purports to give the real truth about what lead up to the amputation.
"My best recollection is that this man saw what happened to the woman and reacted to it. I cannot say with certainty where he was when he saw it — he may have arrived and was navigating his way through that group, or he may have crossed the street to defend her. He was confronted by the same man. I could tell from where I was that the man was belligerent, angry, and confrontational."
My best recollection . . .
I can not say with certainty . . .
Any cahnce this moondoggie has been coached by a lawyer?
Alpha must have graduated brom the Obamqa-Stark School of Advanced Delusional Economics. Unpayable debt means you're rich. Bankruptcy evidences a successful program.
vw: moongsa--I'm not kidding.
When he gets to our side, he tells a story in one sentence: “He punched me hard, straight in the face, so I bit his finger off.”
1. The guy on the radio at lunch said the old guy hit the other guy first-but that it was a “defensive” hit, whatever the hell that means. Anyway that part tracks with this account (of course, he also said he was an old guy, and that the “PR” guy walked across the street to their side aggressively).
2. What kind of a crazy person thinks the proper response to getting punched is BITING A FINGER OFF? WTF!!!
3. There was clearly some sort of “our side, your side” line that was aggressively defended. Kind of interesting.
Any info on the age of the gnawer?
"What's with the sudden use of the terms "pro health reform" and "anti health reform"? Just wondering."
This is a media trick called "incrementalizing."
Soon, they start saying "pro health care" and "anti health care."
They do it incrementally, so fewer people notice when the words changed.
And then, opponents of Obama will be "anti health care."
Opponents will then be against health care for people - in the media's vernacular.
It's how the media will make people who are opposed to government rationing of health care evil so that when the thugs are sent in to bite off their body parts, they won't feel bad about doing it.
They'll feel patriotic as they amputate body parts from opponents of ObamaCare.
"Don't bite my pinkie, bro!"
They do it incrementally, so fewer people notice when the words changed..
Creeping Fascism. Or, as I like to call it -- Creeping Mustachism. What appears to be an innocent enough half mustache grows into one Gigantic Mustache, that before you know it, sweeps you and all your loved one's freedoms completely away.
In Georgia law there was a crime called Maiming for these cases. A famous story about cross examination asks the only witness if he saw Smith bite off Jones' ear in the fight. The witness says No. The lesson is to sit down and shut up, but the over eagar young lawyer goes on to ask, "So what did you see?". The answer to that one question too many is, "Well I saw him spit Jones' ear out". And no, the Defendant wasn't Mike Tyson.
AL,
You forgot the rest of the sentence about medicare, the part that ends "for which the patient had been paying through the nose for over 45 years whether he wanted to or not and it was not based on his income." In that case the govt had better get it done right. The operation was definitely prepaid many times over by both the patient and either his employer if he was an employee or himself if he was self-employed.
Code Pink and Moveon.org are well known for videotaping their "confrontations with The Power" to put on U-Tube feed.
Hopefully the cops are savvy enough to have gotten the media product generated, got the goon in some frames...and are busy going from Lefty to Lefty to see who he is.
He was described as a short man with a medium build, wearing a blue cap, black shirt and black shorts.
It almost sounds like one of those PC descriptions the NYTimes runs:
"After the shooting that left two jewelry store employees dead, the fleeing suspect was described as a man with baggy shorts, tan and black designer sneakers, a gray sweatshirt, and medium build. With a gold stud in his nose. Any witnesses seeing someone that matches the suspects description are urged to contact the police. Being careful of course, to omit any mention of nose shape, skin color, or distinctive hair style we omitted from the description so people and police do not draw unfortunate distinctions..."
Just put some Aspercreme on it. Done.
HEAD ON APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE PINKY
HEAD ON APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE PINKY
HEAD ON APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE PINKY
The finger was re-attached - courtesy of Medicare (a successful government-run health program).
Made possible by private insurance which hospitals accept at a profit while they accept Medicare at a slight loss.
It's so nice how the light-worker has brought us all to the age of peace and harmony and combat cannibalism.
The finger was not re-attached. Doctors said it would not survive since it was severed via biting.
Obama Lied, Pinky Died.
I think the biter was probably a surgeon. I hear they get $30,000, $40,000, $50,000 for sewing on fingers. Now if only that money was going into preventive purchasing of muzzles for overheated liberals instead, think how much we could save!
Also, the Obama administration really needs to work on getting the pro-violence message out a bit more clearly. It was "punch back twice as hard," not "bite off their digits," remember?
Also, the Obama administration really needs to work on getting the pro-violence message out a bit more clearly. It was "punch back twice as hard," not "bite off their digits," remember?
It is hard to stay on message when the adrenaline kicks in. Just saying.
One asshole bites the finger off another asshole. Anyone who attempts generalize this bad behavior in support of his political point of view makes this an asshole trifecta.
So, when someone on the Left does something awful - it's just because he or his victim was crazy. See: Lee Harvey Oswald, etc.
When someone on the Right does something awful - it's because we're the racist, homophobic, sexist, anti-Semitic, xenophobic side of the political spectrum? All of us.
garage, the finger was not reattached. You're making stuff up.
Even though the dude punched him in the face, he shouldn't have bitten the dude's finger off. that was an escalation. He should have done a sweeping kick or something to knock the other guy down and stop his attacks.
Fact is, ALE, this is another example of escalating right wing militancy and violence. If you're claiming that a series of escalating incidents and dangerously unhinged threat rhetoric, corporate-financed disinformation campaigns, and the like are all completely unrelated, you're keeping a "See no evil" blind approach.
In Georgia law there was a crime called Maiming for these cases.
Most places I've been it's called "mayhem".
Kylos et al, a hospital spokesperson told some news media outlets that the finger was re-attached, but that was corrected.
"One asshole bites the finger off another asshole. Anyone who attempts generalize this bad behavior in support of his political point of view makes this an asshole trifecta."
I disagree.
When MoveOn.Org brings their thugs to protests in order to intimidate senior citizens, I think it's important that we bring their actions to light.
MoveOn.Org has already apologized in a press release, but they have refused to assist in the capture of their activist. They know who he is and they are not cooperating with police.
Organizations affiliated with Barack Obama are bringing thugs to their protests to "get in their faces" and "punch back twice as hard." Their entire intent is physical confrontation and it's why protesters on the right are arming themselves.
Today, it was a finger. The MoveOn.Org activist was filmed and will be arrested. But we need to have a larger discussion about how Barack Obama is urging his followers to violence against our nation's senior citizens.
Fact is, ALE, this is another example of escalating right wing militancy and violence.
Whereas having a gang of union thugs beat someone down is just community organizing.
An eye-witness called in to Rush ... .
To be clear, Rush Limbaugh is still a drug addict, even if he may not be currently taking the drugs.
Eric:
Whereas having a gang of union thugs beat someone down is just community organizing .
Did. not. happen. That should be easy to prove if it happened. You cannot.
Even the (I think false) claims at the time were that this was an incident between two people. But you guys distort and lie and now it's a "gang."
The video shown as "proof" shows a guy on the ground screaming while other people milled around and one winger is crying out accusations at a person.
When MoveOn.Org brings their thugs to protests in order to intimidate senior citizens, I think it's important that we bring their actions to light. .
You guys are so deluded! One individual says to shout down the people who are shouting others down and you make it into a grand conspiracy.
I know, I know. Only conservatives get to interrupt others and shout them down.
Oh, and LaRouchies. Your fellow travelers.
"One individual says to shout down the people who are shouting others down and you make it into a grand conspiracy."
It's not "one guy" as you say. It's an entire organization of people. Thousands of them have been videotaped handing out pre-printed signs; teaching their fellow "activitists" how to shout down opponents of ObamaCare.
Barack Obama himself has urged his followers to "get in their faces" and "punch back twice as hard."
He's urging his followers to violence and they're doing what he has told them to do, all over the country. We're seeing videos from all over the place showing the same gestapo tactics.
It's not a conspiracy. It's how they "community organize." It's the "Chicago way" of their politics: to beat up and intimidate senior citizens.
Real brave ones, those.
LaRouche is a Democrat.
To be clear, oh deluded ones:
The Ventura County Sheriffs Department has reported that Rice, the guy who lost a digit, started the violence.
Rice -- who our eyewitness said was aggressive and much bigger than the pro-reformer -- told deputies that the smaller man insulted him. "Rice says he felt threatened," Bonfiglio told me, "and decided to punch the guy in the nose."
The pro-reformer then got up off the ground, the two fought, and the pro-reformer bit Rice's pinky finger off.
Big guy starts fight with little guy, punching him in face. Little guy protects himself with teeth.
Conservatives (and LaRouchies) side with big guy and denounce the little guy. Apparently little guy who disagreed with them was supposed to just accept his beating.
It is a pretty emblematic story.
Did. not. happen. That should be easy to prove if it happened. You cannot.
Except for the video that's all over youtube, you are correct sir, I cannot prove it. Who'm I gonna believe, you or my lying eyes? Let me think...
His attackers (plural) were arrested. Are the cops in on some kind of right-wing conspiracy, then?
LaRouche is a Democrat.
That's a pretty important little detail to leave out, don't you think, Alpha?
Yes, AlphaLiberal, the story you tell is pretty emblematic of the community-based reality you inhabit.
(The talking points version you link to even includes the miracle of Big Government Program's restoring the old man's finger!)
But back here in the real world, ordinary people see that this MoveOn thug crossed a street to assault an old man, who defended himself.
The MoveOn thug then bit off the old man's finger, bragged about it to his fellow MoveOn thugs, and ran off like a coward and is now hiding out from the cops.
"The Ventura County Sheriffs Department has reported that Rice, the guy who lost a digit, started the violence."
That is not what the Ventura County Sheriff's department has reported. They've reported that the victim of the crime was defending himself against what he perceived as an imminent attack from a nutbag.
That he threw the first punch is irrelevant. He has every right to do so if he believes he is about to be harmed, and that's what he has reported to the Ventura County Sheriff's Department.
And that's why they didnt' charge him with assault ... because it's not illegal to defend yourself in this country.
At least not yet.
You scumbag union thugs had better get something straight. You won't intimidate a bunch of seniors who fought and died for their country fighting far worse Nazi's than yourselves.
If you "get in our faces" with the intent to "punch twice as hard" as Obama says ... then you damn well better expect at minimum to receive a fist sandwich.
I'll gladly forfeit a finger to stop you jackboots and I'm sure most other seniors would too.
LaRouche is a Democrat.
Correction - LaRouche runs for office as a Democrat, is rejected by everyone in the party, and loses handily. Unfortunately, the Democratic Party can't eject people who claim membership in it for their own purposes. His claim to being a Democrat is even more tenuous than David Duke's former claims of being a Republican, even though, to be fair to Duke, Duke did win public office as a Republican. Not much of a talking point there, chief.
@alphaliberal
You really shouldn't depend on TPM to get your facts. They also report in the same story you quoted:
"... an anti-reform protester whose severed finger was reattached last night courtesy of Medicare ..."
And, as we all know from watching the FoxNews interview with the victim of the attack, doctors were not able to reattach his finger.
TPM is spinning for their partner orgnanization MoveOn.Org.
We're not buying it, and don't have to, since Fox is there to actually interview the victim and show his words for all to see without spin.
2. What kind of a crazy person thinks the proper response to getting punched is BITING A FINGER OFF? WTF!!!
Sean Connery:
Ness: I want to get Capone! I don't know how to do it.
Malone: You wanna know how to get Capone? They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. *That's* the *Chicago* way! And that's how you get Capone. Now do you want to do that? Are you ready to do that? I'm offering you a deal. Do you want this deal?
nogeneu: German for "new as a noge"
Taxes won't be enough-soon they'll want their pound of flesh.
somefeller,
It wasn't a talking point; it was an observation. AL chose to tar those who oppose this stupid, vague and poorly written plan by an "I'm sure Hitler had a balanced checkbook" argument, it's only fair to point out that by those standards, LaRouche has a lot of fellow travelers.
We can't say they are costing us an arm and a leg.....
yet.
The AP was the wire service that claimed the finger was reattached, citing a hospital spokesperson and that was picked up around the country. It wasn't spin from TPM.
LaRouche has a lot of fellow travelers
Yes, and appears that most of them these days are teabaggers and other conservatives, who choose to echo his rhetoric.
@alphaliberal
Even in an update to their story, Talking Points Memo claims:
"Later Update: There was some confusion earlier about whether Rice's finger was reattached or not. We've talked to the hospital -- his finger was reattached. Phew."
As we all know from watching the actual victim on Fox News, there's no way that TPM spoke with the hospital.
First of all, the hospital is prevented by law from disclosing information about patients in their care. Everyone knows this. It's against the law for the hospital to divulge patient care information.
Secondly, the man's finger was not reattached, according to the victim himself.
Yet, TPM hasn't updated their site with this information.
They're out and out making shit up, and you're trying to pass it off as "fact."
Don't be a TPM buttboy, dude.
It only leads to heartbreak.
Correction - LaRouche runs for office as a Democrat, is rejected by everyone in the party, and loses handily.
No.
In March 1986, NDPC candidates Janice Hart and Mark Fairchild won the Democratic primary for state-wide offices in Illinois. Their success surprised the political establishment and brought national attention to LaRouche and his movement.[92] The Democratic gubernatorial candidate, Adlai Stevenson III, temporarily left the Democratic Party rather than run on the same slate as the LaRouche movement members,[93] and the LaRouche candidates lost in November.
In the 1996 Democratic presidential primaries, LaRouche received enough votes in Louisiana and Virginia to get one delegate from each state.
During the 2000 Democratic primaries, LaRouche scored in double digits in multiple states, with his best showing in Arkansas, where he received 22 percent of the vote to Vice President Al Gore's 78 percent. In the Kentucky primary, LaRouche placed third with 11 percent, behind Gore and Bill Bradley.
According to the LaRouche movement, he mobilized his supporters in defense of President Bill Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky scandal, forming a group called the "Committee to Save the Presidency."[110]
That's the best you can come up with, AC? That LaRouchies won in a couple of low-turnout elections back in the eighties (victories the Democrats quickly disavowed - from the link you cite: "The Democratic gubernatorial candidate, Adlai Stevenson III, temporarily left the Democratic Party rather than run on the same slate as the LaRouche movement members"), and LaRouche himself picks up a few votes in races where the results are foregone conclusions?
When you see LaRouchies in positions of power in the Democratic Party or LaRouche being invited to speak at major (or even minor) Democratic events, get back to me. Otherwise, you're just beclowning yourself by claiming he and his nutty little cult is a relevant force in the Democratic Party.
Hey Alpha (and somefeller), did you get anything right today? I'm not seeing it.
No, they haven't gotten 1 thing right yet.
Hitler was somefeller, wasn't he!
The original AP story said the finger was reattached, per a hospital spokesperson. Here is a link to the old story (note the time stamp).
http://www.10news.com/news/20706283/detail.html
While it turns out that the AP's original story was incorrect, that was in fact what the AP originally reported, so I was right about my point, which was that it was the AP that reported the reattachment, not TPM. I was also right about where Lyndon LaRouche stands in the world of Democratic politics. Try again, Eric and Florida.
That's the best you can come up with, AC?
No, somefeller, that's probably not the best that I could come up with.
But, really, since the 2 minutes I invested in skimming Larouche's wikipedia entry was all it took to discover you were full of shit on the subject, I don't foresee myself wasting any more time on the matter.
so I was right about my point, which was that it was the AP that reported the reattachment, not TPM.
No.
"Later Update: There was some confusion earlier about whether Rice's finger was reattached or not. WE'VE talked to the hospital -- his finger was reattached. Phew."
Hitler was somefeller, wasn't he!
Pat Buchanan seems to think so. But, I'll be generous and admit that while Pat is very much of a conservative and did really well in GOP politics for many years (and was certainly much higher up in the GOP than any LaRouchie has been), he isn't much of a Republican these days.
I miss the LaRouchies soliciting in airports, not far from the Hare Krishna. Does anyone remember their surprisingly timely bumper sticker, "Nuclear Power Is Safer Than Ted Kennedy's Car"?
"The original AP story said the finger was reattached, per a hospital spokesperson ..."
So what.
I can write a story that says that also, but it would be just as untrue.
Have you ever heard of HIPAA?
Hospitals are precluded by federal law from releasing patient information to random morons on the internet such as AP reporters.
Here's a little primer for you on how you can rest assured that when you visit the hospital after having your finger amputated by MoveOn.Org thugs the hospital isn't releasing your private medical information to random morons at the AP:
http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/index.html
Remember: The AP makes shit up. The hospital has released ZERO information about this patient (which is why the AP has their facts wrong).
so I was right about my point, which was that it was the AP that reported the reattachment, not TPM.
The AP story had the earlier time stamp, and was the one picked up around the country. I will admit, it's strange that the TPM article you mention says "We've talked to the hospital -- his finger was reattached. Phew.", yet the article they link to in that very article says the opposite ("We just got the same hospital spokesperson the AP talked to -- Kris Caraway-Bowman -- on the phone. So what's the verdict? Rice's pinky was not reattached. He went home without it last night."). Sloppy writing it looks like, in the case of one of the TPM articles. But it still was an AP story originally.
"I will admit, it's strange that the TPM article you mention says "We've talked to the hospital -- his finger was reattached. Phew."
It's not strange at all. They're making it up. They make up lots of shit.
They didn't speak to the hospital. Federal law prevents the hospital from releasing confidential patient information.
They lied to you. You cited them. Now they're making you look like a moron.
Don't be a TPM buttboy.
There's only heartbreak there.
Moveon thugs. LOL
Is there any group of people wingnuts aren't afraid of?
Have you ever heard of HIPAA? Hospitals are precluded by federal law from releasing patient information to random morons on the internet such as AP reporters.
I am quite aware of that law. I'm also aware that such privacy rules can be waived by the patients, which may be the case here. Who knows? At any rate, the hospital spokesman seems to be talking to various people, based on the articles cited. If those cites are false, then the spokesman may want to call his or her own attorney to tell various news services to stop mentioning them by name as having said various details.
In any case, whether the pinky was reattached or not is ancillary to whatever else went down at that protest.
"I am quite aware of that law. I'm also aware that such privacy rules can be waived by the patients, which may be the case here. Who knows?"
Except, this patient hasn't waived his rights.
How do we know this?
Because the AP and Talking Points Memo have both reported facts that are 180 degrees from the truth.
If they had indeed talked to the hospital; if indeed the patient had consented to have his medical information released to the press, then they would have the correct facts.
But ... lo and behold ... they don't have the correct facts. They are reporting as truth things which they know to be untrue.
So, we know for a fact now that the patient didn't authorize release of his information and that they never talked to the hospital and that they're just making shit up out of whole cloth.
And you're buying it.
Don't.
Only heartbreak there.
And, at the risk of being pedantic, my original comment was The AP was the wire service that claimed the finger was reattached, citing a hospital spokesperson and that was picked up around the country. It wasn't spin from TPM. While the underlying story may end up being incorrect, the fact that it was the AP that jumped out front with it first isn't, and that was what I said.
@Garage ... we're sure not afraid of you, pal.
If you're the best they got, the war's over.
I'm not buying anything, and haven't taken a position on the issue of whether or not the pinky was re-attached. You said I was factually incorrect when I said the AP reported it first. I proved you were wrong. You are now going onto a separate issue, namely whether the story was correct or not, or whether HIPAA rules were violated, neither of which I have taken a position on. Read more closely.
@somefeller
"While the underlying story may end up being incorrect, the fact that it was the AP that jumped out front with it first isn't, and that was what I said."
I agree with you and am not criticizing you at all. You went with the best information you have, not really understanding the background of the people who are feeding you that information.
Frequently, they're just making it up.
Google: Jason Blair
Just because you read it ... just because the AP said so ... just because it was printed in the New York Times ... don't make it so kid.
Beware those feeding you false facts.
Well, at least the Codepinko who did the finger munching was true to its values. It spit the pinky out, praise Gaia. The tasty morsel was apparently not organically grown, or perhaps, not kosher. More likely, our little lefty hero was a vegan.
If someone is coming at me within my personal space and they're yelling at me and acting aggressive, sure I'm gonna punch. It's self defense and that's why the cops aren't charging Rice with anything.
MoveOn.org still refusing to cooperate with police and identify the name and whereabouts of the biter.
Obamacare: naw, a 65-year old man doesn't need a pinky reattachment. That's elective surgery and we're reducing elective surgeries due to budget pressures. Application DENIED.
Give him a cheap blue pain pill.
In the one picture of the scene I have seen, the MoveOn.org guy is clearly going out of his way to taunt the Anti-ObamaCare protestors. This stands in sharp contrast to initial news reports that had the MoveOn.org guy being forced to "walk through" that group just to get to his side.
Sounds like an agitator to me.
@Garage ... we're sure not afraid of you, pal..
You seem to be afraid of just about everyone else. Like hysterical schoolgirls. Every day the sky is falling from some nefarious plot or another. Whaaa!
Nobody will say the health care fight is a cliff hanger now.
I see they've correct the report now - this was the initial report from KTLA:
"A witness from the scene says a man was walking through the anti-reform group to get to the pro-reform side when he got into an altercation with the 65-year-old, who opposes health care reform.
The 65-year-old was apparently aggressive and hit the other man, who then retaliated by biting off his attacker’s pinky… "
The story now is that the MoveOn.org counter-protestor crossed the street specifically to confront anti-ObamaCare protestors:
"Sheriff's Capt. Frank O'Hanlon says about 100 people demonstrating in favor of health care reforms rallied Wednesday night at a Thousand Oaks street corner when one protester walked across the street to confront about 25 counter-demonstrators.
O'Hanlon says the man got into a fight and bit off half the left pinky of 65-year-old William Rice. "
So, we know for a fact now that the patient didn't authorize release of his information and that they never talked to the hospital and that they're just making shit up out of whole cloth.
Not necessarily. They might have found some blabbermouth proud of his inside information who was willing to ignore his HIPAA responsibilities. Or someone pretending to be in the know. Remember all the Ohio state workers who looked up details on Joe the Plumber.
vw: rurro: Scooby-Doo's in deep doo-doo
There you go! Thank you for posting this evidence betraying an evolving right wing myth. I'm pleasantly surprised.
What I wrote in the other thread stands:
Big guy starts fight with little guy, punching him in face. Little guy protects himself with teeth.
Conservatives (and LaRouchies) side with big guy and denounce the little guy. Apparently little guy who disagreed with them was supposed to just accept his beating.
It is a pretty emblematic story.
Alpha,
On the street, when you ask for it, you usually get it. The Codepinko stepped it up and then ran away.
Coward.
Conservatives (and LaRouchies) side with big guy and denounce the little guy. Apparently little guy who disagreed with them was supposed to just accept his beating. It is a pretty emblematic story.
Yeah, it's interesting. If a pro-health care reform person gets in the face of an anti-health care reform person and starts shouting at them, violence is justified. If the reverse occurs, well that's just political dissent and debate at a town hall!
"Big guy starts fight with little guy, punching him in face. Little guy protects himself with teeth."
What dimension do you live in homo?
Little punk cross the street to "get in their faces" and "punch twice as hard."
Little punk finds a 65-year-old senior citizen not about to take his shit.
Little pussy decides to bite like a little girl.
Little pussy runs away.
MoveOn protects pussy protestor, who remains in hiding.
Senior citizen appears on FoxNews, unafraid of the light.
That's how it plays out in the real world, wus.
Keep trying, guys.
So far, old people know this about Obamacare:
1) the bill is complicated as hell; typical gummint overkill
2) they're going to get rationed hard
3) resist, and you lose a finger.
Good meme so far.
Yeah, it's interesting. If a pro-health care reform person gets in the face of an anti-health care reform person and starts shouting at them, violence is justified. If the reverse occurs, well that's just political dissent and debate at a town hall!
Imagine if teabaggers were all black and hispanic, shouting and yelling in favor of healthcare reform at these townhalls, some with guns. There wouldn't be enough tasers to go around.
AL: Big guy, little guy, ad infinitum
If you look at this pic, you'll realize that the biter was not that much shorter than the bitten man (a couple of inches maybe?) but had at last 20 pounds and maybe 15-20 years on him. Stop with the David and Goliath crap.
garage - DailyKos just called. They want your nonsense back over there.
On the street, when you ask for it, you usually get it.
You mean like, punch me in the mouth, I'll bite your finger off? Gramps shoulda punched him in the gut -- the worst thing would be the punchee puking all over him.
I’m surprised no one—including Althouse—has picked up on this, but look carefully at the Biter and you will see that he is—gasp!—wearing SHORTS. He is therefore a loser and a criminal. Q.E.D.
Seriously, he looks like an aggressive loser, all man against a senior citizen, but who would wilt like a cheap orchid when face with a younger, stronger man.
To somefeller and those who are arguing that LaRouchies are Republicans, the question is not whether they are mainstream in the Democratic Party (I agree with you that they are not). Rather, what you need to know is that a high percentage of them were in the Student Left in the late 1960s. They are crazy. I also sensed an undercurrent of violence in the ones I talked to; there was an air about them not unlike that about Bill Ayres.
wv: wingen, German plural for wings. This post is about left and right wings.
according to rialby's pic, the bitee has serious man-boobage.
The blogger karoli took a picture of the opposition forces, including the 65 yo man:
http://karoli.posterous.com/those-opposed
The man who lost his finger wasn't even there as a protester. He was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Here's his account of what happened:
http://www.breitbart.tv/the-b-cast-interview-victim-of-finger-severing-describes-biter-as-deranged/
He's not an OLD MAN, for crying out loud. He's only 65, and in pretty darn good shape.
He admits to landing 2 punches, the second of which landed in the biter's mouth, leading to the bite, and he says he doesn't want to sue — he's "not a litigious guy.
I suppose that one man's right not to be bitten ends when his fingers enter the biter's mouth.
*shudders at possible implications of such precedent*
Seriously, he looks like an aggressive loser
I think he looks like the comic book guy.
Definately physically not tiny compared to the older guy. The older guy looked wiry.
I think comic book guy was trying to start something, and old guy foolishly decided to throw a punch because the guy was so damn annoying. And then he threw another one. And then the guy bit him. All stupid really. The older guy had a good attitude about the whole thing. I imagine if things had been reversed comic book guy would have had a distinctive whine in his interviews.
Clearly, we need a national conversation on finger-chomping. I sense an another Obama "teachable moment" coming on.
somefeller and those who are arguing that LaRouchies are Republicans
I never said LaRouchies were Republicans. Just that they seem to enjoy hanging out with each other at tea parties and town halls, and share a lot of talking points.
"I suppose that one man's right not to be bitten ends when his fingers enter the biter's mouth."
Yeah, I would tend to agree with that.
I also think it's reasonable to punch someone in the face who comes up to you and gets in your personal space and won't get out of it.
I guess my problem is the second punch.
For now I'm not taking this very seriously.
This is like booking a joint Guns N Roses/ Joni Mitchell concert in the same hall. These are people who do no understand each others' vibes....I saw the bitee on Cavuto. He seemed a pleasant man with a decent sense of humor. He told Cavuto that he was thinking of having the severed part bronzed but decided against it...My guess is that there would be ways to exchange views with this man that would not entail biting his finger off. I suppose he shares some of the blame, but it was a stupid incident. It points not to the morality of the participants but to their intelligence.
Imagine if teabaggers were all black and hispanic, shouting and yelling in favor of healthcare reform at these townhalls, some with guns. There wouldn't be enough tasers to go around.
Or the "nonpoliticized" Justice Department could just dismiss the case, like this one.
WV: sixidste: something like 23 skidoo?
Imagine if teabaggers were all black and hispanic, shouting and yelling in favor of healthcare reform at these townhalls, some with guns. There wouldn't be enough tasers to go around.
Or maybe not.
WV: phswist: acidic chocolate.
I also think it's reasonable to punch someone in the face who comes up to you and gets in your personal space and won't get out of it.
You know, I almost did just that myself last weekend at San Diego Street Scenes. We (me, my wife, and a neighbor couple) were just hanging out watching a band when suddenly this little 20-something dude wearing shorts and no shirt runs up from behind and makes physical contact with my wife and my neighbor’s wife (he put his hands on both their shoulders and tried to become friendly. The wives shrugged him off, breaking contact, but he stood his ground between them. My wife turned and completely ignored him and so he started hitting on my neighbor’s wife. She launched back verbally, saying you idiot, I'm with him, pointing to her husband. Her husband kinda just stood there doing nothing. I finally intervened and actually touched his slimy shoulders, trying to move him out of our space. The guy said "don't touch me" and became more confrontational. We stood face to face exchanging insults (he was wearing his shorts well below his boxer underwear which I told him looked ridiculous. I had come dressed in business casual from work and I suppose I was at least 25 years older, so perhaps there was a generational conflict plying out. He was not going to move. I warned him that I was going to have to punch him if he didn't leave. He just had this vacant look in his face . I touched him again, pinging him on the shoulders, trying get him to move back-"don't touch me" he repeated. The words escalated: “WTF is wrong with you?--GTF outta here” I told him. He just smirked. I was this close from punching him in the face. Instead, I made a quick pretend undercut to his nuts without contact just to test his reflexes. He instinctively cringed. Seeing this wife had enough and quickly started walking away. I made the split second decision to cut and run too, and our friends quickly followed.
Right or wrong decision?
wv: "inthost" (meade not me)
Why do you guys keep saying he had his finger re-attached when he clearly states in the video that they were not able to re-attach it?
I guess everyone in the thread ran to give their expert opinions on the incident and what it all means in the bigger picture, without bothering to listen to one party's account of what happened.....
"Better put some ice on that!"
Oops! Er... wrong politician.
WV: litedo -- what's left after the bite.
The older guy had a good attitude about the whole thing.
He didn't seem to want to talk about the event much. I think he'd likely decided this was the prudent approach since he admitted to being the aggressor and that his finger ended up in the other guy's mouth. Some stranger sticks their finger in my mouth I'm going to bite down hard too.
He must have brittle bones, though. Hard to imagine being able to bite off a finger. Maybe he can get a good calcium supplement on his medicare.
chickenlittle: for someone to violate the social norms to that extent, he was likely really stoned -- or crazy. Leaving the scene was the only possible answer, because you could not be sure of his response to anything.
He must have brittle bones, though. Hard to imagine being able to bite off a finger.
As a veteran cutter-up of chickens, I suspect the man bit through a joint, which is essentially cartilage, not a bone.
for someone to violate the social norms to that extent,
Some aggressive ass sticking his finger in your mouth isn't violating a social norm, while biting it off is?
"Rice later told investigators he felt threatened by the man and punched him in the nose, Bonfiglio said."
Calm down, everyone. Based on this bit alone, the bitee may well be charged with assault, and--who knows--a jury might even convict him. At least I assume California has more or less a traditional, common-law-based "reasonable man" standard, but really the CA Penal Code is so big (something like 5x or 10x as long as what a civilized state like WA gets by with) that I'm not about to try to find out for sure.
chuck b.,
"I also think it's reasonable to punch someone in the face who comes up to you and gets in your personal space and won't get out of it."
Cool. It's also assault here in WA and (presumably) in most of the rest of these United States. Hope you get a good plea bargain as a first-time offender.
Or you might want to try your hand at convincing the jury of this:
"The use, attempt, or offer to use force upon or toward the person of another is not unlawful in the following cases:...(3) Whenever used by a party about to be injured, or by another lawfully aiding him or her, in preventing or attempting to prevent an offense against his or her person... in case the force is not more than is necessary"
Go for it!
(And note this distinguishing fact in chickenlittle's account: "makes physical contact with my wife and my neighbor’s wife"...)
T.S. Garp, Helen Holm and Michael Milton find this whole episode highly amusing.
Well . . . Michael Milton, not so much.
wv = dopoome. The famous dance number from "The Music Man--Scatophile Edition."
First, btw, medicare is only successful in the sense that it hasn't collapsed yet, but anyone working in medicine knows that if it wasn't for the capitalist part of our system, the socialist part would be out of business. pure socialism never works.
Second, i can say this as a matter of black letter law. it is almost NEVER a reasonable use of force to bite off a person's pinky. i mean the only times would have to be something like a terrorist is reaching for a bomb that can only be activated by the fingerprint on his pinky. then go to it--bite that sucker off, swallow it, even--that would be self defense. but in any other context biting it off is gratuitous.
Which is not to say that throwing the punches is okay. but biting off a pinky is clearly out of bounds. sheesh.
If it turned out, somehow, that he bit the guys finger off accidentally, then maybe it would make sense. But it doesn't sound like that's the case. And if it were, why would he run?
It sounds like he just thought, this finger is right here, I must bite it. Which is pretty much the reasoning of a 2 year old.
It sounds like he just thought, this finger is right here, I must bite it.
In our childhood tussles, my brother would often bite me to get me to let go. But he never bit any body parts off; at most he left temporary teeth marks in my skin.
Maybe the biter wanted to bite hard enough to deter the bitee, but did not know the power of his jaws.
As a veteran cutter-up of chickens, I suspect the man bit through a joint, which is essentially cartilage, not a bone.
Local media, after interviews, reported that the finger was "severed near the second knuckle," not "at" the joint. Presumably, considerable force was required.
FLS
Always rising to the defense of the indefensible, so long as the offender has a (D) after his name.
You're such a hack.
The fascinating thing about this thread is that minions of the left are intent on justifying or excusing the finger biter.
In the alternative, they and the media point out that the bitee had Medicare. He must be a hypocrite, verdad?
Pimping the cause is everything. Right, guys?
Forget that the biter crossed the street to confront the old grayheads. (Rialby's photo.)
Forget that the bitee was 65-years-old.
Forget that biting off a finger is obviously an excessive response to being punched by a senior citizen.
Forget that the biter was the one who fled the scene and the implications of that.
Forget all the Moveon disinformation about the incident, now discredited by police and local reporters.
Just keep toeing the party line, however stupid and small it makes you look.
btw, how do we know he used medicare?
i saw recently where they assumed that about a handicapped man beat up by pro-healthcare thugs, and it turned out to be untrue.
Local media, after interviews, reported that the finger was "severed near the second knuckle," not "at" the joint. Presumably, considerable force was required.
And, presumably, steel teeth. I have never bitten through even a wingbone, myself. Anyone here bite through a bone?
Consider also that breaking news accounts are not necessarily accurate. Have we seen a pic of the gnawed finger? (I can't watch all the videos.)
I don't condone the violence of biting off a person's finger. But I also don't condone the violence of throwing two punches because somebody is yelling at you.
Having said that, while I do not have any expertise in reading body language, my objective opinion on the photo of these folks on the street is that it appears that the biter is in a threatening stance and the other three gentlemen and submissive or defensive.
One last issue; How in the world does a puncher leave his fist in somebodies mouth long enough for them to bite down?
This story seems to contain a bit more complicity on the part of the victim than the previous case involving the guy selling Gadsden flags.
fls wrote: Have we seen a pic of the gnawed finger?
No. So there's still the possibility for you to deny it ever happened, thereby maintaining your standing as the most relentless Obot of all.
Pinkmonkeybird wrote: This story seems to contain a bit more complicity on the part of the victim than the previous case involving the guy selling Gadsden flags.
Complicity? By Jove, you may have put your finger, so to speak, on it.
It's part of the vast right wing conspiracy to discredit Obamacare. The old guy had a finger he didn't want.
fls! fls! Did you hear?
So there's still the possibility for you to deny it ever happened
Huh?
I'm just arguing that the guy bit through a joint, not a bone. To quote me:
former law student said...
He must have brittle bones, though. Hard to imagine being able to bite off a finger.
As a veteran cutter-up of chickens, I suspect the man bit through a joint, which is essentially cartilage, not a bone.
9/4/09 1:02 AM
"Huh?"
Oh never mind! (Rolling eyes.)
1) screw google blogger and its editing conflicts! Just lost my post!
2) A human finger is well within the capacity of the human jaw to sever. It would however be nontrivial and unlikely to happen by accident or "not knowing one's own strength."
3) Absent clear and convincing justification for doing so, a man who willingly bites off another man's finger (hmm, spit or swallow?) is criminally insane.
4) Everyone at moveon.org who is covering up for the guy should be waterboarded till they, er, cough him up. Too bad you can't waterboard an organization.
I completely agree with nichevo's points 1 and 2. The third one seems too sweeping, while point 4 assumes facts not in evidence.
TPM has now airbrushed out their original dishonest spin:
"Later Update: There was some confusion earlier about whether Rice's finger was reattached or not. We've talked to the hospital -- his finger was reattached. Phew."
It now reads:
"Later Update: There was some confusion earlier about whether Rice's finger was reattached or not. We've talked to the hospital -- his finger was not reattached."
But they offer no reason for the change. There is no additional update on the post explaining why the Later update was wrong. No strikethrough or other notation to even indicate that their Later update originally said the exact opposite of what it says now.
They simply memory-holed their initial propaganda blurb after people started noticing it was a lie, and replaced it with what the victim told everyone in his interview on Fox.
What dupes and suckers the lefty trolls who marched the original talking point into this thread are!
Useful idiots, indeed.
Blogger former law student said...
I completely agree with nichevo's points 1 and 2. The third one seems too sweeping, while point 4 assumes facts not in evidence.
9/5/09 10:02 AM
Ah, compromise! We;;...
3) No doubt some faggy dysfunctional kid might grow up a biter if not counseled. However, once you're tasting blood, IT'S TIME TO STOP. People who like the taste and ramifications of human blood = insane.
I would bet that, around the time Mr. Chompy McMoveon was tasting blood, Mr Rice really wanted his hand back and would without any doubt have pulled out if Chompy had let go. Does he let go? No, he finishes the job.
If not crazy, then what?
4) Meh, it couldn't hurt to try. ;>
TW: (I kid you not) Chompy, want some fries with that?>
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