Althouse: Everyone's talking about this normal-size woman.

August 29, 2009

Everyone's talking about this normal-size woman.

Lizzie Miller is a size 12.

83 comments:

Automatic_Wing said...: Positively Onion-esque.; 8/29/09, 10:00 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Lets see if we can find some music to alai our fears.; 8/29/09, 10:02 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: A big woman?

I'm head over heals; 8/29/09, 10:08 PM
Away From The Brink said...: Would that pic be considered NSFW?; 8/29/09, 10:11 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: I want a big woman to sit on my face unitl I tap her and the mat like a cheap wrestler.; 8/29/09, 10:11 PM
Penny said...: How about Harry Nilsson's "Everybody's Talking At Me", Lem?; 8/29/09, 10:13 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: The thing about big is that you don't know waht it is until you know waht small is.

Pat Benetar, Sigourney Weaver and Mary Matalin
I never knew small like that b4.; 8/29/09, 10:18 PM
The River Otter said...: Ooh, cool- she's from Milwaukee!!
(I hope nobody brings up the fact that size 12 is considered kind of on the small side here.); 8/29/09, 10:19 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: I'm looking into it penny. and only because it's you and you ask me to.; 8/29/09, 10:21 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Penny dosent like that we dont converse the way we should.

Midnight Cowboy

Everybody's talking at me.
I don't hear a word they're saying,
Only the echoes of my mind.
People stopping staring,
I can't see their faces,
Only the shadows of their eyes.

I'm going where the sun keeps shining
Thru' the pouring rain,
Going where the weather suits my clothes,
Backing off of the North East wind,
Sailing on summer breeze
And skipping over the ocean like a stone.

I'm going where the sun keeps shining
Thru' the pouring rain,
Going where the weather suits my clothes,
Backing off of the North East wind,
Sailing on summer breeze.

I'm sorry penny. I'm no cowboy I'm a city boy.; 8/29/09, 10:28 PM
Skyler said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/29/09, 10:28 PM
Skyler said...: Well, fat people buy clothes and thus need models, too. But we needn't pretend that they're pretty.; 8/29/09, 10:29 PM
former law student said...: At 5-11 and 180 lbs, the canned bmi indicator says she's at the border of normal weight/overweight.

But what does a size 12 mean any more? The more expensive the clothes my wife tries on, the smaller the size she needs. Extrapolating, a $2000 pair of jeans would put her in negative numbers.; 8/29/09, 10:30 PM
Anonymous said...: I'd hit it.; 8/29/09, 10:40 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/29/09, 10:42 PM
Jennifer said...: How is size 12 normal? That's seems quite large.

She's beautiful. That picture took me by surprise a bit when the magazine hit my mailbox, but the reaction has really blown my mind. I'm torn between confusion as to why it's such a big deal and loving that a clearly post-baby pooch made it into a glossy.; 8/29/09, 10:46 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: I have stopped and go on reverse, so I can come upon that beauty with the knowledge that I should really look pay attention.

Take Me Home, Country Roads

Country roads, take me home
To the place I belong
West virginia, mountain momma
Take me home, country roads.; 8/29/09, 10:47 PM
Penny said...: She is a beautiful woman by anyone's standards, even dress designers would have to agree.

I do note, however, that she isn't wearing a designer dress.; 8/29/09, 10:48 PM
Penny said...: Thanks for playing my song, Lem. *hugs*; 8/29/09, 10:53 PM
The Crack Emcee said...: She's normal, and thus, sexy.

The Macho Response; 8/29/09, 10:56 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Dont ask too many un-answerable questions..

Dont Know Why
.

I waited 'til I saw the sun
I don't know why I didn't come
I left you by the house of fun
I don't know why I didn't come
I don't know why I didn't come

When I saw the break of day
I wished that I could fly away
Instead of kneeling in the sand
Catching teardrops in my hand

My heart is drenched in wine
But you'll be on my mind
Forever

Out across the endless sea
I would die in ecstasy
But I'll be a bag of bones
Driving down the road along

My heart is drenched in wine
But you'll be on my mind
Forever.; 8/29/09, 10:57 PM
Synova said...: If she's 5'11" a size 12 is not large.

But it's not thin either, and we expect models to be thin, even when they are tall.

She's very "normal" sized... and I just got home from a science fiction convention which made *me* feel normal sized, which is an unusual (but nice) feeling, because I'm not. Considering all those various *actual* multi-plus sized ladies wearing corsets and mini-skirts and platform shoes... why, this lady is down-right svelte.; 8/29/09, 10:59 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: If we give up our liberties right now our best answer is 'I dont know why'.

its really sad.; 8/29/09, 11:05 PM
former law student said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 8/29/09, 11:09 PM
former law student said...: The National Bureau of Standards (now NIST) created a women's clothing sizing standard, back in the 1950s, at the behest of the Mail Order Association. (Logically standardization is important when you're buying things you haven't tried on.)

The original data was taken by the USDA's Bureau of Home Economics on 15,000 women in 1939-1940. (Another benefit of FDR's stimulus package.) The data was augmented by measurements on 6500 WACs by the Army Quartermaster Corps.

Back in the day, therefore, a Misses size 12 fit a woman who measured 35-26-37.

http://ts.nist.gov/Standards/Conformity/upload/womens-ps42-70.pdf; 8/29/09, 11:11 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: upon further study..

publicity...

puro teatro

Igual que en un escenario
Finges tu dolor barato
Tu drama no es necesario
Ya conozco ese teatro
Mintiendo que bien te queda el papel
Despues de todo parece
Que es tu forma de ser
Yo confiaba ciegamente
En la fiebre de tus besos
Mentiste serenamente
Y el telon cayo por eso
Teatro...
lo tuyo es puro teatro
falsedad bien ensayada
estudiado simulacro
Fue tu mejor actuacion
Destrozar mi corazon
y hoy que me lloras de veras
Recuerdo tu simulacro
Perdona que no te crea
me parece que es teatro
y acuerdate que segun tu punta de vista yo soy la mala!
Ay!!
Teatro...
lo tuyo es puro teatro
falsedad bien ensayada
estudiado simulacro
Fue tu mejor actuacion
Destrozar mi corazon
y hoy que me lloras de veras
Recuerdo tu simulacro
Perdona que no te crea
me parece que es teatro
Perdona que no te crea
Lo tuyo es puro...
Teatrooooo.

nudity needs no translation ;); 8/29/09, 11:20 PM
Anonymous said...: Former -- I don't know if this relates to your post or not, but my guess is that sizing has changed considerably since then.

For example, you get a kick-ass vintage shirt off ebay that's a medium, it's pretty small. And that's for men, who don't really care about the size of their clothes. Imagine the psychology that must go into numbering the sizes of clothes for women.; 8/29/09, 11:22 PM
JAL said...: Oh good grief Jennifer.

She's 5 foot ELEVEN inches.

What size are you?

For many years I was 5' 6". Looked great and was a size 12. I was not a "plus size." I was not fat.(Speaking past tense because I am now older and slightly more matronly... of course my husband still thinks I look great ;-) )

The average American woman is a 12 - 14.

WV = howsayymp?
Question asked to Gordon Brown about the Lockerbie bomber release.; 8/29/09, 11:23 PM
JAL said...: FLS is correct.

More expensive ("designer" clothes) are marked with smaller sizes. Maybe a marketing thing because wealthy women (oohhh FS ... ship coming in?) like to think they are svelte. The clothes the average American woman buys off the rack are sized differently (a rack 14 could be a 10 designer size.) So it seems we might be "bigger" but probably aren't.

As noted in the articles, the cut off for "plus" sizes in modeling is size 6. Means my gorgeous size 8 5'9" daughter is a plus size in that world.

Hahahahahaha.

wv = wingless
I think it might mean without wings. Ya think?; 8/29/09, 11:30 PM
fivewheels said...: On one of the links back to Glamour magazine, there's a sad comment that leads a guy to believe that pretty much anything will make a woman feel bad if she's determined to feel bad. Why there are women who are so determined, we don't understand.

reading all these comments is making me feel really sick and disgusted with myself and less confident... I'm 5'5'', 120 pounds and wear a size 2 but now I feel that "proportionally" I'm fat or atleast very similar looking to a plus model.

(conca: Come on, shake your body baby, do the conca); 8/29/09, 11:33 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: The way I size it up

A Girl In Trouble (Is A Temporary Thing)

She's got a face that shows what she knows
She's heard every line
Tenderly she talks on the phone
There's a way to walk that says
"Stay Away!", and a time
To go 'round the long way

A girl in trouble is a temporary thing
A girl in trouble is a temporary thing

There's a time when every girl learns, to use her head
Tears will be saved till they're better spent
There's no time for her to be afraid
So instead, she takes care of business
Keeps a cool head

A girl in trouble is a temporary thing
A girl in trouble is a temporary thing

She's got a face that shows what she knows
She's heard every line
Tenderly she talks on the phone
There's a way to walk that says
"Stay Away!", and a time
To go 'round the long way

A girl in trouble is a temporary thing
A girl in trouble is a temporary thing
A girl in trouble is a temporary thing

In the end the size of the lead in the band (as you cans see hidden in the video) proved to be not a temporary thing.; 8/29/09, 11:34 PM
Jennifer said...: Oh good grief Jennifer.

She's 5 foot ELEVEN inches.

What size are you?

I'm a size 4 or 6, depending on the label. But, she has a good six inches on me.

I assure you, I am not trying to put this woman down. From what I can see, she is more beautiful than I could ever hope to be.

I have to admit that I am truly taken aback by the reaction to this picture. It has really forced me to confront just how out of whack the fashion industry has come from reality.

At the same time, size 12 shouldn't be normal. I feel like we can be healthier than that.

I'm in a strange place right now. I've lost about 20 pounds since the birth of my second child. I'm closer to "normal" for me than I've been in 3 years. And, the only person I know who is small enough for me to donate my "fat" clothes to is a 15 year old daughter of a friend. That concerns me.

My verification word: gersob. Translate as "yer an SOB." Meaning: "how I feel when I express concern about our collective health".; 8/29/09, 11:34 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: A girl in trouble video commenter

Girl in trouble is an understatement. This pig is knocking on deaths door with arteries blocked with pure crisko...; 8/29/09, 11:39 PM
former law student said...: Why there are women who are so determined, we don't understand.

When I was a kid, I "downloaded" from my parents' closet one of the greatest titled books ever written, The American Sexual Tragedy by psychologist Albert Ellis.

One thing that sticks in my mind was his observations that even the most beautiful women were insecure about their looks. I forget the reasons if any.

Another is the many incompatible ideas we have about the desirability of non-marital sex.; 8/29/09, 11:42 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Lazy Lover

Lazy Lover ooooh ooooh ooooh
Lazy Lover, Casanova
You roll over when I want more
I want more… Oooh ooooh ooooh Aaaaa h aaaaahh
Lazy Lover, Casanova
Why bother, there’s so much love
So much love, So much love, So much love Why bother ? Lazy Lover, Lazy, Lazy, Lover Speaking Italian "Ma sará possibile che sei ancora stanco, ma di che? Lazy Lover

BTW - I sensor the videos to make sure they are up to my standards of waht I consider appropriate for myself to play here.

If I make a mistake I hope its taken in the spirit that it's given. and of course i hope to be corrected and forgiven.

wv - manizi = very close to a killer boxer.; 8/29/09, 11:55 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Lizzie Miller Glamour

Travellin' Light

I'm travellin' light
Because my man has gone
And from now on
I'm travellin' light
He said goodbye
And took my heart away
So from today
I'm travellin' light

No one to see
I'm free as the breeze
No one but me
And my memories
Some lucky night
He may come back again
But until then
I'm travellin' light

I love this song!; 8/30/09, 12:14 AM
Penny said...: "Standards for normal"?

Take a good long while to think about that.

Standards are fine.
Normal is fine.

But standards for normal? NOT fine.; 8/30/09, 12:18 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Oh penny

take a blue pill ;); 8/30/09, 12:29 AM
EKatz said...: It's funny that a lovely model with some fat on her is somehow considered controversial or groundbreaking. She's not obese or overweight in what appears to be an unhealthy way.

And her pose made me think of those nudes in 19th century paintings who sit naked at a picnic or sunbathe (and in comparison she's still probably taller and slimmer). But you could see her sitting opposite this Renoir figure:

http://www.ngv.vic.gov.au/orangerie/images/nude.jpg

or joining in on Manet's picnic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_déjeuner_sur_l'herbe; 8/30/09, 12:32 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Lizzie Miller Glamour

Roam

hear a wind
whistling air
whispering
in my ear

Boy mercury shootin through every degree
oh girl dancin down those DIRTY and DUSTY trails
take it hip to hip rock it through the wilderness
around the world the trip begins with a kiss

roam if you want to
roam around the world
roam if you want to
without anything but the love we feel

skip the air-strip to the sunset yeah
ride the arrow to the target
take it hip to hip rock it through the wilderness
around the world the trip begins with a kiss

roam if you want to
roam around the world
roam if you want to
without anything but the love we feel

fly the great big sky see the great big sea
kick through continents bustin bounaries
take it hip to hip rock it through the wilderness
around the world the trip begins with a kiss

roam if you want to
roam around the world
roam if you want to
without wings, without wheels
roam if you want to
roam around the world
roam if you want to.

if I remember correctly there was some talk this week of body parts and waht males.. whatever... ;); 8/30/09, 12:33 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: there are a lot of songs about nudity just hidding under the surface, in plain sight.; 8/30/09, 12:36 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Lizzie Miller Glamour plus

Con te partiro

I know you might think I'm crazy - there is no nudity in this song - Just close your eyes if you dare!

Con te partiro
Paesi che non ho mai
Veduto e vissuto con te
Adesso s? li vivr?
Con te partir?
Su navi per mari
Che io lo so
No no non esistono pi?
Con te io li rivivr?
Con te partir?
Su navi per mari
Che io lo so
No no non esistono pi?
Con te io li rivivr?
Con te partiro.
Io con te.

I do the same thing ;); 8/30/09, 12:49 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Ask yourself how is he looking at her?

Through his 'third man' maybe?; 8/30/09, 12:53 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: remember.

Pat Benetar, Sigourney Weaver and Mary Matalin.

its because of subtlety like that we know whats good for us and wahts bad.; 8/30/09, 1:01 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Lizzie Miller Glamour plus

Love is a Battlefield.

We are young, heartache to heartache we stand
No promises, no demands
Love is a battlefield
We are strong, no one can tell us were wrong
Searchin our hearts for so long, both of us knowing
Love is a battlefield

Youre beggin me to go, youre makin me stay
Why do you hurt me so bad?
It would help me to know
Do I stand in your way, or am I the best thing youve had?
Believe me, believe me, I cant tell you why
But Im trapped by your love, and Im chained to your side

We are young, heartache to heartache we stand
No promises, no demands
Love is a battlefield

We are strong, no one can tell us were wrong
Searchin our hearts for so long, both of us knowing
Love is a battlefield

Were losing control
Will you turn me away or touch me deep inside?
And before this gets old, will it still feel the same?
Theres no way this will die
But if we get much closer, I could lose control
And if your heart surrenders, youll need me to hold

We are young, heartache to heartache we stand
No promises, no demands
Love is a battlefield

We are strong, no one can tell us were wrong
Searchin our hearts for so long, both of us knowing
Love is a battlefield

We are young, heartache to heartache we stand
No promises, no demands
Love is a battlefield

We are strong, no one can tell us were wrong
Searchin our hearts for so long, both of us knowing
Love is a battlefield.; 8/30/09, 1:11 AM
Donna B. said...: I made my daughter's wedding dress and all her attendant's dresses. Before this, I'd made more ballet costumes than I can count.

Sizing don't mean crap. And there's a huge range of normal.; 8/30/09, 1:59 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Lizzie Miller Glamour plus

Just The Way You Are

Don't go changing, to try and please me
You never let me down before
Don't imagine you're too familiar
And I don't see you anymore
I wouldn't leave you in times of trouble
We never could have come this far
I took the good times, I'll take the bad times
I'll take you just the way you are

Don't go trying some new fashion
Don't change the color of your hair
You always have my unspoken passion
Although I might not seem to care

I don't want clever conversation
I never want to work that hard
I just want someone that I can talk to
I want you just the way you are.

I need to know that you will always be
The same old someone that I knew
What will it take till you believe in me
The way that I believe in you.

I said I love you and that's forever
And this I promise from the heart
I could not love you any better
I love you just the way you are.

I went to bed but the computer was still on when I remembered my last girlfriend. She was a plus size and I loved her very much.; 8/30/09, 2:42 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Lizzie Miller Glamour plus

I'm wide awake..

this woman points to something that appears to be in front of me but seems to elude me at the same time.

some sort of truth. I have to confess i really like the picture. I want to keep playing music off of it.

but at this point is as if I'm going to go off in some other direction and I cant stay with the picture.

I have two monitors at home, same as at work (it helps with my work) and so I can play off a theme or whatever if i want to.

its becoming carnal.

I'm sorry I cant help but be sort of personal here many times. I wish I could be 'literary' like you all. Its real for me.

I want to tell you where I'm at right now for instance.

I'm up.; 8/30/09, 3:39 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: BTW it appears to me that by YouTubes account our artist are always performing abroad.

that cant be right.

why cant they put their local shit up on the internet?

i know one of you lawyers know the answer to that

i just knowit.; 8/30/09, 3:50 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Lizzie Miller Glamour plus

Abracadabra.

I heat up, I cant cool down
You got me spinnin
round and round
round and round and round it goes
Where it stops nobody knows

Every time you call my name
I heat up like a burnin flame
Burnin flame full of desire
Kiss me baby, let the fire get higher

Abra-abra-cadabra
I want to reach out and grab ya
Abra-abra-cadabra
Abracadabra

You make me hot, you make me sigh
You make me laugh, you make me cry
Keep me burnin for your love
With the touch of a velvet glove; 8/30/09, 4:04 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Lizzie Miller Glamour plus

Abracadabra.

I dont mean to be harsh on that kid but somebody should tell him that where he puts the camera is just as important as his singing.

Wich was If I may not bad .. I mean if that was him playing and singing .. witch is kind of difficult even for the pros, I don't think he did it.

I'm not prepared at this time to call the video a fake, a hoax, an aspirin for the period, but I belive the young man could have helped his cause by showing us how he played.. its nothing a little rehearsal cant take care of.

it's that simple.; 8/30/09, 4:23 AM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Lizzie Miller Glamour plus

I like it raw.

WARNING!! NO PC LIRICS

wv - distion = Tiper's idea ;); 8/30/09, 4:54 AM
Anonymous said...: I would prefer a batch of full sized photos, some in complete nude, before passing a "judgment." Meanwhile, I am fat, ugly male.But ok because I have lots of $$$ and impressive job. It works for me!; 8/30/09, 5:27 AM
traditionalguy said...: A beautiful woman indeed, with a "healthy" strength that is just what a man wants in a helpmate. The hardly there slinky look is put on by women role playing "the weak little girl desparately needing the big man's protection" fantasy. After the seduction is over, then the goodness and strength in his woman, like this picture shows, is worth a miiion times what the slinky fantasy was ever worth to him. And anyway, when she is in a relationship she needs to stop being seductive towards other men for the duration. But to each their own: some men like a luxury sedan and others like a sexy sports car.; 8/30/09, 6:53 AM
Bissage said...: My baby fits me like a flesh tuxedo.
I'd like to sink her with my pink torpedo.

Big bottom. Big bottom.
Talk about bum cakes, my girl's got 'em.
Big bottom drives me out of my mind.
How could I leave this behind?; 8/30/09, 7:02 AM
Anonymous said...: God, yet another rerun of the eternal feminuts article: "The Terrible Burden Women Bear: Stinking Men Want Them to Be Pretty."

The thesis of this article is always just how much women suffer because fashion models are skinny.

Always omitted is the fact that fashion models are skinny because they are chosen by gay men. The gay men who dominate the fashion world like women who look like teenage boys. These gay men are adored by the hordes of fag hags in the media and cannot be blamed for anything.

But, of course, the fault for this Terrible Burden Women Must Bear is those horrible hetero men.; 8/30/09, 7:14 AM
Lisa said...: Outrageous that we would consider HER fat or plus sized.; 8/30/09, 7:47 AM
Laura(southernxyl) said...: At the same time, size 12 shouldn't be normal. I feel like we can be healthier than that.

My stars.

I understand that at age 48 I have been on the shelf for quite some time, and hence shouldn't think of myself as having a dog in this race.

But I'm 5'5", I wear a size 12 in Lee jeans, and I assure you that I am healthy. Not fat. Every woman isn't a fence post or a pipe cleaner. At my height, a 4 or 6 would not be healthy.

And I know whereof I speak. Throughout my 20's I weighed 108 pounds, with the brief exception of pregnancy and immediate post-childbirth. I ate everything I wanted and then some, just had a rapid metabolism. I wore a size 6 then. Am healthier now, if by "healthy" you mean "not feeling rundown and getting sick all the time". Blood pressure, blood sugar, etc. are all normal. So let's not pretend that the have-to-be-thinner-than-thin thing is about health. It's not, it's about faddish esthetics.; 8/30/09, 8:21 AM
bearbee said...: She is not fat or overweight. She merely needs a muscle tone up.; 8/30/09, 9:12 AM
bagoh20 said...: Women would not lament the preference for slimmer women if they absorbed the even more unfair requirements for men to be wealthy, keep their hair and still be in shape. All a woman needs to do is get some exercise and control her fork.

That is at least accessible for all women with a little effort and discipline. The requirements for men are much more a matter of luck and we still need to be in shape.

Stop whining, turn off the TV and move that big bottom a little.

It certainly gets harder with age but at least it is possible -for men not so much.; 8/30/09, 9:30 AM
Darcy said...: Not whining at all bagoh. :)

A size 12 can look and feel fantastic. And be very healthy, by the way, Jennifer. No need for you to pity the size 12, dear. ;-); 8/30/09, 12:11 PM
Laura(southernxyl) said...: Stop complaining, women! Whatever the issue is, men totally have it worse!

This is getting so predictable as to be boring.; 8/30/09, 12:18 PM
Darcy said...: I don't see a lot of complaints, Laura. I see a lot of opinion, which is good. We all have our own individual view of fat/beauty/attractiveness. Nothin' wrong with that.; 8/30/09, 12:31 PM
Laura(southernxyl) said...: I don't either, Darcy. I was responding to bagoh20.

What I actually see is people trying to figure out on what planet that woman is plus-sized.; 8/30/09, 12:37 PM
Darcy said...: I agree that bagoh made a good point, Laura. And yeah. ;-); 8/30/09, 12:39 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: She is normal-sized, but she is not normal-looking. She is gorgeous. A normal body with a gorgeous face and bone structure is not normal. Therefore, I don't see how a picture of her has any bearing on what weight is or is not most attractive.; 8/30/09, 1:20 PM
kimsch said...: Remember the 5-7-9 shops? When juniors were odd numbered sizes and misses were even numbered sizes?

I am trying to get back into a size 12. Even at 5'2", I look anorexic if I'm under about 115 pounds.

Chico sizes it's clothing as 0, 1, 2, and 3. That's it.

WV: sycob; 8/30/09, 2:07 PM
The Scythian said...: Darcy wrote:

I agree that bagoh made a good point, Laura. And yeah. ;-)

Nah. He didn't make a good point. He was just engaging in the kind of 'woe is me for being born a male' whining that's so common in blog comments these days.; 8/30/09, 2:20 PM
Joe said...: Women's sizes are so fucked up. They are entirely dependent on height so a short woman who is size 8 may be much chunkier than a tall woman who is size 12. (Incidentally, bra cup sizes are confusing for similar reasons--they mean something different based, in part, on how thin a woman is.)

With men's pants, at least, the numbers are clear and unambiguous; waist-inseam.; 8/30/09, 2:33 PM
Ann Althouse said...: I think what is exciting the women who are talking about her is that she has a very flabby belly. It laps over. And she's only 20. The one imperfection is riveting. I think the fact that she's a 12 isn't really what's going on here. Women feel great relief to see a belly like that and a smiling woman who is apparently not ashamed to let it show. The standards for abdomens have become absurd in the last few years. It used to look fine to have a slightly rounded belly, then the belly needed to be absolutely flat, then we were expected to have muscular definition in the abdomen. That's ridiculous. No woman should be striving for that, Lizzie's belly seems to say.; 8/30/09, 3:14 PM
former law student said...: Whatever the issue is, men totally have it worse!

No. Only bald men have it worse. Unless you think bald men are sexy. A show of hands, please.

It used to look fine to have a slightly rounded belly, then the belly needed to be absolutely flat, then we were expected to have muscular definition in the abdomen.

Slightly rounded bellies are natural. Flat bellies are unnatural. But women should not have beer bellies. They should carry their weight in their hips.; 8/30/09, 3:32 PM
Laura(southernxyl) said...: So what's harder, for a naturally large person to starve herself into a flat - excuse me, slightly rounded - belly, or for a bald man to wear a wig?; 8/30/09, 3:56 PM
Laura(southernxyl) said...: Not to mention, lots of men shave their heads deliberately.

I don't think we think about your bald heads as much as you think we do. I am reminded of George Clooney in "O Brother Where Art Thou" with his obsession with Dapper Dan hair stuff and constantly putting his hands to his head - "My hair!"; 8/30/09, 3:58 PM
bearing said...: Slightly rounded bellies are natural. Flat bellies are unnatural. But women should not have beer bellies. They should carry their weight in their hips.

Maybe if they've never been pregnant.

Once most women have had a baby or two, there's going to be a little extra tummy hanging around. It's the leftover extra skin and supporting structure from the pregnancy. Weight loss might make it a little smaller but it doesn't go away without surgery. Trust me on this one.

That's why the belly is so fascinating. A tummy is truly normal for every woman who's given birth.; 8/30/09, 5:34 PM
blake said...: Yeah, actually, I don't think women are all that hung up on bald. Younger women, I think, as is appropriate.

I'm not convinced of the homogeneity of men as far as taste in women goes, but I know women who find bald heads sexy, who aren't all that concerned about money (though lots who are concerned about "lazy"), who prefer smaller penises ("anything more than a mouthful is a waste"), and who don't think much of a man who's prettier or more concerned with his appearance than he is.

Don't know any who like wigs, toups, or combovers.

I agree with Freem though, in the sense that this isn't a normal woman: For one thing, she's having a near-naked picture taken of her, and she's smiling.; 8/30/09, 6:26 PM
blake said...: Women express attraction toward guys like James Gandolfini, Mike Chiklis, Jack Nicholson, Jeff Goldblum (hi, Darcy!), and an assortment of doughy, goofy-looking and otherwise non-beautiful men.

So, no, guys have it WAY easier in the looks department, let's not kids ourselves.; 8/30/09, 6:29 PM
Darcy said...: Hi ya, blake! And everyone on that list except Nicholson. Eww. :)

Oh...and *raises hand*; 8/30/09, 7:54 PM
Darcy said...: Uhh. Meant the "Eww" for Nicholson only. Jeff Goldblum is very, very hot.

Hot nerd.

And well said, Althouse. That's really the remarkable thing about that photo. The belly fold. Womanly and not afraid to show it. Nice.; 8/30/09, 7:56 PM
JAL said...: Define "healthy" Jennifer.

Associating a dress size -- 12 in this case -- with being healthy, or in this case NOT healthy, is a real disconnect for me.

I think because it is clear that many women who are healthy would fit comfortably into a size 12.

Size 12 and healthy:

BP in low normal range, HGB, HCT normal range, heart rate regular, normal sinus rhythm and rate. No murmurs. Lungs clear. Blood sugar normal. Urine normal.Sleeps well. POsitive outlook on life. Weight in range for height and bone structure.

I watched the interview she did with Matt Lauer. Lizzie appears to be a large -- as in large, not fat -- woman (due in part, I think, because the Glamour editor next to her is part bird.) And I'm not sure Matt Lauer is particularly big, either. She has broad shoulders (is that unhealthy)?

She states she works our, eats healthy, takes care of herself. I would venture to say that she comes from a different gene pool than Jennifer and I do. (How tall are her family members? How are they built?)

Broaden your horizons Jennifer. You probably know more 12s who are healthy than you ever could have imagined until now! We're undercover 12s.; 8/30/09, 9:13 PM
Anonymous said...: Glamor is soooo daring to put a photo of a slightly plump woman who happens to be GORGEOUS in their magazine. Cutting edge, that.; 8/30/09, 9:29 PM
blake said...: c-f--

Dunno if it qualifies as "daring", but since the buzz seems to have been started by real women readers, it qualifies, perhaps, as smart.

Revealing? Indicative that women might like to see greater representation of body types.; 8/30/09, 10:24 PM
Dustin said...: "At the same time, size 12 shouldn't be normal. I feel like we can be healthier than that."

That's Jennifer above in this thread.

Jennifer, you don't understand what health is. Theses sizes do not correlate in any way with health. In fact, it's likely size 12 women will live longer than size 8 women, though it would be crude and clumsy to say this is an indicator of health.; 8/31/09, 1:09 AM
kentuckyliz said...: I was wide awake in the middle of the night recently, and channel surfing, and found some fascinating show on gruesome ways to die on Spike TV, all real life stories.

One successful (non-plus-size) supermodel was a bulimic and ate herself to death. She exploded her stomach during a binge and was septic.

Ewwwww.

Just sayin'.; 8/31/09, 10:13 PM