Althouse: Cash for Clunkers.

August 13, 2009

Cash for Clunkers.

Clunk.

55 comments:

garage mahal said...: "One bright spot in the report was automobile sales."

Clunk!; 8/13/09, 2:15 PM
LouisAntoine said...: But Anne, Rush says the economy is in great shape and the crisis is just being ginned up so the democrats would win the white house./2008; 8/13/09, 2:17 PM
Sofa King said...: "..but any money that flowed into the pockets of car dealers seemed to come at the expense of other businesses."

Mission accomplished!; 8/13/09, 2:18 PM
ObamaNation said...: Well, clearly what we need are a few companion programs to this tremendously popular and successful program. Might I suggest:

Cash for old toasters;
Cash for old cappuccino makers;
Cash for old plasma-screen TVs.

Maybe if you Rethuglican hillbillies were a little more intelligent, instead of being inbred clod-stomping rednecks, you'd be capable of making these purchasing decisions on your own.; 8/13/09, 2:18 PM
Anonymous said...: ...additionally, unemployment and home foreclosures are up.

..and the hits keep on coming...; 8/13/09, 2:18 PM
The Drill SGT said...: lets give out $4,500 dollars for boats, and $50,000 for houses, and $450 for suits, and $45 for new dresses, we can turn retail sales aroubd for less than a trillion

Biden's Kinsley gaffe: We have to spend our way out of bankrupcy.

A Kinsley gaffe or "gaffe in Washington" in American politics is the term used for telling the truth by accident: in other words, it describes the situation when a politician says something inadvertently in public which he or she privately believes to be true, but which he or she would ordinarily refrain from saying publicly since he or she believes the statement would be politically harmful or damaging

wv: aithag = 8 shriveled up old crones; 8/13/09, 2:21 PM
Paddy O said...: Clunkers for clunkers.

clunk.

WV: forecen. Yeah, we all should forecen this would happen.; 8/13/09, 2:22 PM
Ralph L said...: Monty, you're about a year behind the times. The Panic of 2008 ended a while ago.
“The consumer is still very conservative...."
Not arch or ultra, for once? They blame it on lost wealth, but it's more likely fear the bad times will last and take a few million more jobs.; 8/13/09, 2:24 PM
The Drill SGT said...: on a similiar vein NY state is on the verge of bankrupcy, the Governor unilaterally decided to buy some votes by giving away $140,000,000 in funds to welfare moms; 8/13/09, 2:25 PM
ObamaNation said...: Only $45 for a dress, but $450 for a suit; "8 shriveled up old crones"...

Mysoginist. I guess we should expect no less from a "drill sgt."; 8/13/09, 2:26 PM
Original Mike said...: ...chilling hopes that consumers are ready to lead the American economy out of recession..

Any consumer with half a brain looks at the prospects for the next five years and decides to hang onto every penny she has.; 8/13/09, 2:29 PM
traditionalguy said...: The rise in "Foreclosures" is a result of the lenders finally getting geared up to clean out the books from loans in default for over a year now. The staff and resources necessary to get the houses from the owners hands and secure them has lagged until the lenders were ready to bite off that many vacant homes. Rental houses are now valuable again and many Foreclosures are being re-sold to landlords or "fix-up and resellers" for cash at 30 cents on the dollar. The recession may be bottoming out, so long as the Obama/Soros Cap and Trade Fraud Tax is not passed to re-sink our salvaged ship. So I predict that Tax is exactly what Obama will push for next and the hardest.; 8/13/09, 2:31 PM
Triangle Man said...: $140,000,000 in funds to welfare moms

None of which was from State funds. $35 million of it was a personal donation by He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named (hint, Soros) and the rest was federal matching funds.; 8/13/09, 2:32 PM
Robin said...: Where did the NYT get the data for claiming "20 months of recession?" Are they using the media definition of a recession? (No numbers, just feelings.) Or the actual economists' definition of a recession? (So many (3, 6?) months of negative growth.) I know we are in one NOW, but when did it actually start? Because twenty months doesn't sound right to me.; 8/13/09, 2:35 PM
Anonymous said...: Time to start floating trial balloons
for a second 'porkulus' bill.; 8/13/09, 2:35 PM
Once written, twice... said...: Lets make a deal. If the economy is noticeably better one year from now lets agree that Democrats should be rewarded with reelection. If the economy is still in a recession then the Dems should be thrown out. Is that a deal?

Lets not forget that conservatives on this site and in general have been predicting economic collapse (well beyond what he inherited from Bush) since President Obama was elected.; 8/13/09, 2:35 PM
Triangle Man said...: So I predict that Tax is exactly what Obama will push for next and the hardest.

You're not alone. I hear expectations for a Dow near 7,000 by the end of the year based on similar speculation.

WV: stednest. Where Oprah keeps her man.; 8/13/09, 2:37 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "But Anne, Rush says the economy is in great shape and the crisis is just being ginned up so the democrats would win the white house./2008 "

You can't even get the spelling of my ultra-simple first name right, and you are also wrong about Rush. When's the last time you listened to the show?; 8/13/09, 2:37 PM
Triangle Man said...: I have to make a confession. I sometimes post just because I like the word verification that I get. Like now.

WV: ianash: acronym. I am not a socialist. Honest!; 8/13/09, 2:41 PM
ObamaNation said...: LE Lee has an outstanding idea: Hillbillies, if unemployment is below 9.4% in 12 months, you will all vote Democrat; and if it's higher than that, LE Lee and I will vote Rethuglican.

Honest.

(LE Lee -- don't worry -- by this time next year, so many of the unemployed widget-makers' unemployment benefits will have run out that even if they're all still out-of-work, unemployment will be down below 7%. There aren't enough people left employed to lose their jobs in the next 12 months to replace these people. Pwned!!11!); 8/13/09, 2:46 PM
traditionalguy said...: L E...The Stimulus spending is designed to hit in 2010. So you may be right. The loss of jobs is not going away until a tax cut is done by Republican Congress and signed by a Republican President. Can you admit today that a massive energy Tax to pay bribes to Obama allies is not needed except to utterly destroy American manufacturing? If you can admit that truth, then you may be coming out from under his spell yourself.; 8/13/09, 2:46 PM
bearbee said...: Time to start floating trial balloons for a second 'porkulus' bill..

ALERT to Washington -

Here is what Argentina did in Oct 2008.

We all have to give up something and every little bit helps.; 8/13/09, 2:49 PM
ObamaNation said...: traditionalguy, you seem to have forgotten about the millions of jobs that will be created in the manufacture of wind turbines and solar cells, and in the propulsion of electricity-generating treadmills and human-sized hamster wheels.

But just keep repeating your Faux Noise talking points, Chimpy McHitlerburton.; 8/13/09, 2:50 PM
The Drill SGT said...: Lets make a deal. If the economy is noticeably better one year from now lets agree that Democrats should be rewarded with reelection. If the economy is still in a recession then the Dems should be thrown out. Is that a deal?

No deal,

recessions normally last 18 months, and we have been in one for 12. So the issue is, did we need to piss away a trillion dollars and accomplish nothing more than increase our debt and provide a piggy bank for liberal wish lists.

- Did unemployment stop at 8%? No
- Did economy start producing positive growth in the 3rd qtr of the FY? no
- Will we have positive growth for the year overall? no
- you think we're going to grow at 4% in FY 2010? unlikely.
- did we save or grow millions of good (and green) jobs? no

Those are the stimulus promises that we're waiting for.; 8/13/09, 2:50 PM
Once written, twice... said...: Trad guy wrote
"Can you admit today that a massive energy Tax to pay bribes to Obama allies is not needed except to utterly destroy American manufacturing?"

This is good example where many you are just a bunch of Althouse Hillbillies being lead around by your nose by the likes of hucksters like Rush Limbaugh.

Cap and Trade was developed as a more market driven approach to reducing emissions. It was designed to replace the more traditional regulatory approach; command and control. I.e. the EPA telling polluters that their smoke stakes individual have to meet a set standard.

But the Jethros here believe that not allowing polluters to discharge their toxins in to common airspace amounts to a communist conspiracy.; 8/13/09, 2:59 PM
garage mahal said...: I'm old enough to remember the "Jobs and Growth Act of 2003", which raised the deduction for SUVs from $25,000 to $100,000, and bumped the "bonus deduction" from 30 percent to 50 percent, and left in place the accelerated five-year depreciation schedule. Meaning a $100,000 12mpg SUV purchased of which $50,000 could be immediately written off. Taxpayers for Common Sense estimated it cost taxpayers between $840 million and $987 million for every 1,000 vehicles sold. I remember conservatives going apeshit and taking to the streets over that bill like it was yesterday.; 8/13/09, 3:05 PM
ObamaNation said...: That's right, LE Lee. They just want to continue to spew toxins like lethal carbon dioxide into the atmosphere at will.

What do you Rethuglicans think -- do you imagine that there's some magical life form that actually consumes your toxic CO2 and transforms it into pretty flowers and tasty treats?

Just a bunch of dumb webtoed hair-lipped Kentucky hilljacks is what they are.; 8/13/09, 3:07 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: Cap and Trade was developed as a more market driven approach to reducing emissions.

Cap and Trade will reduce CO2 emissions within the US because factories can just relocate to countries where it doesn't apply.

And since CO2 evens out in the upper atmosphere, we all end up with same amount of global warming whether the smokestack is in Chicago or Beijing.

Cap and Trade will only benefit the middlemen who control the carbon indulgences, er...allowances - i.e. the politicians.; 8/13/09, 3:08 PM
ObamaNation said...: Yeah, what Garage said. Imagine the government allowing businesses to accelerate depreciation on a vehicle, so that the business doesn't have to pay as much income tax in the years immediately following the purchase; instead of dragging the depreciation out over several years.

Who do they think that income belongs to? The business? I think not. It belongs to the government, and the government will allow that business to keep whatever the government says it can. After all, how could that business make any profit, if not for the benificence of the government?

Just think of how much that program cost the government, by not collecting all the taxes that it could have.; 8/13/09, 3:12 PM
ObamaNation said...: Yeah, what Garage said. Imagine the government allowing businesses to accelerate depreciation on a vehicle, so that the business doesn't have to pay as much income tax in the years immediately following the purchase; instead of dragging the depreciation out over several years.

Who do they think that income belongs to? The business? I think not. It belongs to the government, and the government will allow that business to keep whatever the government says it can. After all, how could that business make any profit, if not for the benificence of the government?

Just think of how much that program cost the government, by not collecting all the taxes that it could have. What a waste of money, allowing businesses to keep that money.; 8/13/09, 3:14 PM
Once written, twice... said...: Well Maguro, obviously, over many years there have been efforts (Kyoto, etc.) to try to forge international agreements about emissions. But for the Jethros it is just another sign of the communist conspiracy.; 8/13/09, 3:34 PM
traditionalguy said...: L E ...You are mistaken if you believe that only Limbaugh et al. can figure out the truth behind your Faked CO2 crisis. American voters named Bill from hills everywhere are ready now to vote the cheap ChiTown crooks out. Only in Disney movies, and other NBC fantasies, does anyone believe your CO2 is air pollution slander anymore.It is colder today than anyone under 30 has ever experienced before.; 8/13/09, 3:35 PM
ObamaNation said...: Tard-itional guy, your hillbilly reasoning would be amusing, were it not so pathetic. Of course it's getting colder. That's how climate change works. Didn't you see The Day After Tomorrow?

Just wait until the Statue of Liberty explodes from the cold. We'll see who's laughing then, you wing nut.; 8/13/09, 3:47 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: LE - The wingnut hillbillies in China and India aren't going to be part of any economy-crushing CO2 regulation scheme. No way, no how.

Without their participation, any "global" CO2 treaties or agreements will be worthless, even if you buy into all of Al Gore's warmist hype.; 8/13/09, 4:01 PM
Ralph L said...: Robin, I believe total employment peaked at the end of 2007, so they've backdated the recession from the Panic to the beginning of 2008.; 8/13/09, 4:22 PM
Unknown said...: Wow, who'd have thunk it, central planning doesn't work.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2190282/posts; 8/13/09, 5:48 PM
MadisonMan said...: My recollection is that Rush did argue that the economy wasn't in too bad a shape back about a year ago, when it was clear to many (except those who wanted Republicans to hold the White House) that things were not okay. Now that the economy is bouncing along the bottom, maybe upturning, those same voices are the ones claiming it's still got a long way to fall. That's my interpretation, at least. How many times did people on the right side of the Political Spectrum who post to this very site use the phrase dead cat bounce at the end of Spring?

It's silly to think that Consumer Spending is going to lead a recovery, by the way. Consumers will hold down spending until they are sure that a recovery is ongoing, and that certainty will happen pretty long after the recovery actually starts.

Having said all that, Cash for Clunkers is a stupid idea. Money for first-time home owners is a stupid idea. I'd like money for blog commenters.; 8/13/09, 5:53 PM
Anonymous said...: @Lee

"... conservatives on this site and in general have been predicting economic collapse ... since President Obama was elected."

Sir,

A total of 23 million people are unemployed or cannot find full-time jobs.

Federal tax receipts have fallen such that the deficit in a single year is approaching 50% of the total federal budget.

Every state in the nation has seen tax revenues plummet, on average by 25%.

Home values have collapsed. 401k retirement funds have cratered.

Nobody is predicting economic collapse, sir. It is upon us.

We're merely astounded by the lack of any action to stop it by the Obama Administration.

Handing out $4,500 welfare checks to rich folk so they can buy new SUVs doesn't seem to me to be a the economic game-changer Obama was looking for. Yet, that's pretty much the only thing this administration has done so far.

Obama's foreclosure program has resulted in an increase in foreclosures. He's made the foreclosure problem worsen.

So, just to set the record straight. Conservatives aren't predicting economic collapse. They're watching in stunned silence as Obama makes it happen.; 8/13/09, 6:00 PM
BJM said...: L.E. Lee said: Cap and Trade was developed as a more market driven approach to reducing emissions. It was designed to replace the more traditional regulatory approach; command and control. I.e. the EPA telling polluters that their smoke stakes individual have to meet a set standard.

Wrong.

"In the 1960s, a University of Wisconsin graduate student named Thomas Crocker came up with a novel solution for environmental problems: cap emissions of pollutants and then let firms trade permits that allow them to pollute within those limits.

But Mr. Crocker and other pioneers of the concept are doubtful about its chances of success. They aren't abandoning efforts to curb emissions. But they are tiptoeing away from an idea they devised decades ago, doubting it can work on the grand scale now envisioned.

"I'm skeptical that cap-and-trade is the most effective way to go about regulating carbon," says Mr. Crocker, 73 years old, a retired economist in Centennial, Wyo. He says he prefers an outright tax on emissions because it would be easier to enforce and provide needed flexibility to deal with the problem."

Clue: get one.; 8/13/09, 6:08 PM
former law student said...: Cash for Clunkers is a stupid idea. Money for first-time home owners is a stupid idea.

Using cash to incentivize desired behavior is a common-sense idea. (BTW, the cars being turned in were late model guzzlers, not elderly clunkers. Our 30 mpg clunker was not eligible.) People happy with their gas guzzlers were inclined to hang on to them. Similarly, people afraid that buying a house would mean joining the foreclosure set were inclined to stay renters. What would be a stupid idea would be to penalize someone for their desired behavior, e.g. taxing employer paid health care.

...chilling hopes that consumers are ready to lead the American economy out of recession..

Any consumer with half a brain looks at the prospects for the next five years and decides to hang onto every penny she has.

Free trade has made it clear that being a Chinese producer is better than being an American consumer.; 8/13/09, 6:11 PM
The Drill SGT said...: MM said...It's silly to think that Consumer Spending is going to lead a recovery, by the way.

The problem of course is that The Obama policies have caused multiple sections of the economy to freeze up and await the outcome of various legislative initaives.

- thinking about buying stock in the financial sector? The Obama guys keep using the TARP stick to beat with the sector and are proposing sweeping new rules that will impact firms.

- thinking about buying stock in the Health care sector? The Obama guys may take it all over and are proposing sweeping new rules that will impact firms.

- thinking about buying stock in the manufacturing sector? The Obama guys look like they have there thumb on the union/firm balance scale and will stick it sector?

- Insurance?

- energy?

- stocks in general

- bonds? they arent safe now

- capital gains taxes?

- higher marginal rates?

- surtaxes?

- inflation?

Overall, the business climate sucks

money is sitting things out for now and the recovery will wait with those investors.; 8/13/09, 6:21 PM
Once written, twice... said...: BJM, fine. You have convinced me. Lets have an ''outright tax on emissions.''; 8/13/09, 6:25 PM
ricpic said...: Shmuck Lee doesn't think we're in collapse. Hilarious.; 8/13/09, 6:28 PM
Once written, twice... said...: Bjm,
Also, you are the one who needs to stop listening to Rush and get a clue. Crocker doesn't have much faith in cap and trade because he no longer believes a market approach can work fast enough.
I don't know why I waste my time with you Althouse HBs.; 8/13/09, 6:32 PM
Once written, twice... said...: Ricpic, we were in collapse, but then Obama was elected. The economy will start growing 4th Q this year and the Althouse HBs will be whining like stuck pigs.; 8/13/09, 6:38 PM
traditionalguy said...: L. E....If the economy starts growing in the 4th qr. of 2009, then you are a true prophet. If it does not, can we stone you?; 8/13/09, 7:03 PM
Once written, twice... said...: TradGuy, it is 7:30 p.m. here and like most cool people I am already stoned. Thank you very much.; 8/13/09, 7:30 PM
traditionalguy said...: L E... That may be why you don't love us Althouse Hillbillies since we risk thinking for ourselves. While it is true according to one Prophet that "Everybody Must Get Stoned"we hillbillies do take Sunday off (Blue laws you know)and sober up until we can analyse known facts and compare them to outdated liberal movie plots. Never give up hope L E. Have you ever read David Horowitz writings?; 8/13/09, 7:39 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: ObamaNation:

Cash for old toasters;
Cash for old cappuccino makers;
Cash for old plasma-screen TVs.

Don't forget about cash for getting your old folks to agree to being euthanized by Obama's death panels.; 8/13/09, 8:29 PM
Anonymous said...: You mean Central Planning doesn't work?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tq2SpWPZZY; 8/13/09, 8:36 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: The program isn't so much a clunk because of the employment data but because of the spending data.

Total consumer spending was still down last month and the "cash for clunkers" scheme appears to be running out of takers even with more money.

The government was supposed to give out money so consumers would spend several times their own, but if this isn't working, the economy is in a much worse state than the government would have us believe.; 8/13/09, 8:36 PM
Hamster said...: Cash for clunkers seems to have saved near bankrupt car dealers, revived sagging car sales, jumpstarted vehicle production lines and gotten hundreds of thousands of consumers to loosen their pocketbooks.; 8/14/09, 1:11 AM
Jason (the commenter) said...: Hamster : Cash for clunkers seems to have saved near bankrupt car dealers, revived sagging car sales, jumpstarted vehicle production lines and gotten hundreds of thousands of consumers to loosen their pocketbooks.

Too bad not single one of the jobs it temporarily saved is sustainable. Also too bad that all the savings it destroyed now wont be available to produce sustainable jobs.; 8/14/09, 7:01 AM
Anonymous said...: Obama certainly has done much to eliminate jobs (e.g., within the auto industry and continuing to seek to eliminate the entire health insurance industry). Likewise, he's come out and stated unemployment rates are likely to continue if not increase. So when, oh when, does he intend to spring upon us the new "3 million jobs" (during his "first two years of office") he promised? The clock is a-tickin'sir...better getta move on...

Ah, maybe he just meant he intended to create the "3 million jobs" in China...or India...or Kenya...; 8/14/09, 8:38 AM
Anonymous said...: Giving $4,500 welfare checks to people rich enough to purchase brand new SUVs is immoral when hundreds of thousands of Americans are going hungry each night.

Obama = Rich Man's Best Friend

Millions are unemployed and losing their homes, but the welfare checks are being handed out to people rich enough to buy $35,000 new cars.

Who voted for that? Who voted for Obama in order for the government to start giving welfare checks to rich people?

Is that why YOU voted for Obama? So he'd give tax dollars to rich folk?; 8/14/09, 9:09 AM