I have a question about this:
The police and Professor Gates offered differing accounts of what happened after officers arrived. The police said Professor Gates initially refused to show identification and repeatedly shouted at officers. Professor Gates said that he had shown photo identification to Sergeant Crowley but that the sergeant had not appeared to believe that he lived there.There's a crucial, missing fact that the journalists, Susan Saulny and Robbie Brown, don't seem to have any interest in. What I want to know — and I haven't seen it mentioned in other articles — is whether Gates's photo ID had the address of the house on it. Was it his University ID? My UW ID doesn't have my home address on it. I have read elsewhere, not in this article, that Gates rented the house. Perhaps he had a driver's license with a different address of his on it.
If the ID did not show the address of the house that had been broken into, then Crowley's continuing investigation into whether Gates really lived there was perfectly reasonable. (Or do you — did Gates? — think that affiliation with Harvard University should end the matter?) Moreover, Gates's belligerence and presentation of himself as a person too important to be questioned should have heightened Crowley's suspicion that Gates didn't live there. While a person who really lived in the house might get outraged, many — I think most — would respect the need to make sure that there was no crime in progress and quickly find something in the house — such as an addressed envelope — that connected the name to the address.
A person who didn't belong in the house would not have that option and would be forced to pursue a different strategy, and protesting the investigation might be that strategy. The police officer is obviously not going to accept shouted assertions that this is my house and questioning of his authority. He shouldn't!
ADDED: In this radio interview, Crowley — at around 6:30 — says that he was shown only a Harvard ID, which had no no address and that an ID with an address "would have been helpful." Thanks to commenter Mike for pointing me there. Bearbee, the commenter, points me to Gates's interview with his daughter, in which Gates says:
... I got out my Harvard ID and my Massachusetts driver’s license which includes my address and I handed them to him.So there is a real factual dispute here. (Also: My lawyer's eye catches the phrase "my address" and makes me want to ask the follow up: "By 'my address,' do you mean the address of the house Crowley was questioning you about?")
By the way, in the linked interview, Gates goes on to say:
So he’s looking at my ID, he asked me another question, which I refused to answer. And I said I want your name and your badge number because I want to file a complaint because of the way he had treated me at the front door. He didn’t say, ‘Excuse me, sir, is there a disturbance here, is this your house?’—he demanded that I step out on the porch, and I don’t think he would have done that if I was a white.Crowley tells us the question was: "Is there anybody in the home with you?" (at 4:40 in the radio interview). It was asked, Crowley says, because of his concern that the man he was talking to was not one of the persons seen breaking into the house. Now, it seems that Gates knew that the front door had been tampered with before he arrived home, so why wasn't Gates worried about whether there was someone somewhere in the house? Shouldn't Gates have taken the opportunity to tell the police that when he arrived home, he discovered evidence of a break-in? Why didn't he seek Crowley's help with that?
Crowley says that Gates's "tone" was "peculiar." And I'm wondering why the question "Is there anybody in the home with you?" would have upset him so much. It could have been just that it was an invasion of his privacy, but think about this along with the fact that Gates didn't seem to want to report the damage to his door that made him need to force it open when he got home. Did Gates already somehow know who had broken the door while he was away, so that he wanted to protect that person? Was that person in the house, such that the question "Is there anybody in the home with you?" felt threatening to Gates?
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290 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 290 of 290Please, for the love of GOD, show me where Obama called Crowley a racist. Where. Where is it.
Montagne Mointaigne - the country believes Obama called the cop a racist. That is all that matters. You lose.
Not MY country, dude. I don't care what shithole you live in. Not my country.
The Hispanic copy says "arrest was by the book:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5j4S-r9G0m8HEq4JAFUw7_epFRb9QD99KT07G0
So left-tards, is the Hispanic cop a racist too?
Not MY country, dude. I don't care what shithole you live in. Not my country.
Funny that's what I thought after Obama was elected, but I learned to deal with the reality of that unfortunate situation. You seem unable to adjust to the new reality of below 50% approval rating for your hero. Take a chill pill dude.
I'm always disappointed to see double standards. AlphaLiberal claims in part "You're treating the police report as factual/Gospel, Ann."
This is not true. Most of the relevant facts have not been disputed even by Gates. The only major fact in dispute is the extent of Gates' outburst during the event. But this aspect of the police report clearly has other support other, including video.
Yet AL seems perfectly fine taking as gospel that the report is false even in respects not alleged by Gates. It's almost like he believes no corroborating evidence is sufficient to prove police correct while concurrently believing no evidence, even a single assertion by someone present, is required to contradict the officer's version. He, and others, simply assume the officer wrong.
Before any aspect of the officer's account can be cast in doubt there must first be a claim to that effect by someone present. Anyone asserting factual differences or lies beyond Gates' claims is doing so completely without evidence.
Montagne - instead of challenging me to prove my assertion you threw a tantrum. Very childish!
Obama said that "the nation has not got beyond racial problems" and "the cop acted stupidly". Put 2 and 2 together, it doesn't require an Ivy league degree. Most common sense people came to the conclusion that Obama called the cop a racist.
Alex,
And you somehow think that you and your buddies point of view speaks for the country. I was also told by many a commentor here, how much America loves Sarah Palin. Yet she lost. Speak for yourself.
". I don't think civil order is likely to break down just because verbal abuse of police officers goes unpunished.
Sorry PJ,but this is naive. If you ever saw the TV shows where people abuse the police for being pulled over, you can see how nuts people get even when they know they are wrong. Many many more would behave this way if it worked, don't you think?
I can tell you for certain that many neighborhoods here in L.A. would be completely lawless if this was the SOP of the police. The uncivil nature of the internet is a perfect example of what happens when you can say what ever you want without risk. Imagine in real life with thugs and their hommies having "call the cops" parties just to berate the civil servants when they come.
alex -
'Jim - so either Obama stepped into the shit or he thinks he had something to gain politically from ratcheting up the racial wars. Which do you think?'
I think he just stepped in it. I don't think it was a political calculation, and that's the problem. I think he spoke off the cuff, and as he so often does when speaking extemporaneously: he screwed the pooch.
Like his "bitterly clinging" comment, it shows where his heart really lies. And therein lies the issue for Obama. He was elected as a "post-racial" president, but his unthinking remark portrays him as anything but.
For all the claims of the guy's super-smartness, I've yet to see any evidence of it.
Well, since neither socialized medicine nor cap and tax are going to make the cut, it looks like The Won is falling back on race war to bring down the system.
Just a thought.
Move along, you ofay devils.
In other news, the new Air Force One is almost ready for delivery.
Ought to be a sweet ride. What's a couple billion dollars, anyway?
Childish? You're all about "you lose," guy. Like it's a team sport. You'll latch on to any piece of meat the Drudge Report throws out to interpret events in the worst possible light for anyone you perceive as a "lefttard." And I'm childish? You disgust me and I reacted accordingly. This coversation is meaningless. You have nothing to back up your lies other than a tracking poll? Obviously that's not going to convince me of anything. Obama never called the cop a racist. You're just another white grievance monger. I know it's hard being white, but I think you'll make it if you believe in yourself. Just believe! XO
Invisible - I did not ever state that America "loves Sarah Palin". She does not have majority support and needs to work hard for it. You would admit that right?
Obama said that "the nation has not got beyond racial problems" and "the cop acted stupidly". Put 2 and 2 together, it doesn't require an Ivy league degree. Most common sense people came to the conclusion that Obama called the cop a racist.
You can't be this willfully dumb, Alex. I'm not sure if you've ever heard of the concept of "mutual exclusivity" but you should look it up on The Google.
Montagne -
"Please, for the love of GOD, show me where Obama called Crowley a racist. Where. Where is it."
I did. Now if you have a defense of implying that the cop is a racist, then make it. But dishonestly claiming that he didn't isn't going to work.
Alex,
I'm trying to explain to you that YOU CAN'T SPEAK FOR AMERICA. Leave that to Bill O'Reilly.
Invisible -
Two ideas are only mutually exclusive if one necessarily precludes the other. The two statements placed side by side - as Obama did - are not mutually exclusive. They are part of a list that Obama was specifically making: he was the one who associated the two thoughts.
Perhaps you would do well to look up "logical thinking." I believe "The Google" can help you out with that if you're having difficulty.
Invisible - I never claimed to speak for America. Why do you keep spouting lies and nonsense?
Jim - I think that some of our trolls failed basic logic. Probably never even took the class.
Bill Cosby says that the President should have kept out of this since he didn't know the facts and there were so many reports circulating at the time. I wish we had Cosby as president.
Cosby's remarks start at about 2:23:
http://cbsrbos.cbsradio.com/global/video/flash/popupplayer.asp?vt1=v&clipFormat=flv&clipId1=3981859&at1=News&h1=Bill%20Cosby%20on%20The%20President's%20Reaction&rnd=6851087
Actually, the funniest part is that it seems he's not really the home owner; he's living in subsidized housing as the house is owned by the university.
I maintain that the cop had a responsibility to ensure he was safe by asking if there was anyone else in the house-because the 911 call said there were 2 (count em 2) black men breaking in. As I understand it, that was the question that the prefessor refused to answer. His refusal then would have made my spidey sense tingle and I'd have wondered if there wasn't something fishy going on...
Alex : "the country believes Obama called the cop a racist. That is all that matters. You lose."
You aren't speaking for America?
I speak for America:
Summer kicks winter's ass!
Let's all go to the beach!
Kirby -
"I wish we had Cosby as president."
I've always respected Cosby. People forget that he's actually Dr. Cosby, as is his wife.
I think he, and his show, did more to break down racial stereotypes in this country than Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton ever did.
If not for Bill Cosby, there would never have been a Barack Obama.
Billy Beck,
1. What do you mean be "impertinent"?
2. How does the fact that Crowley arrested Gates AFTER he knew that Gates was in his own home have anything to do with the propriety of an investigation to determine whether it was his home? The arrest was for disorderly conduct, not breaking and entering.
The president apparently called the sergeant, and tried to make amends:
http://wbztv.com/local/obama.james.crowley.2.1099998.html
The president didn't say that he had acted stupidly in making the remarks he had made, so it's not a full mea culpa, but he does say he could "have calibrated his remarks differently" -- like he could have used the 30 gauge instead of the 20 gauge?
At any rate, at least he started the apology process.
And maybe this will now ratchet down.
I hope Gates will apologize, too.
I don't think the officer has to apologize. I think he should get some kind of medal from the president for his service, and he should get about ten million from Harvard University for one of its profs defaming a police officer (libel), since it happened on Harvard U. grounds, with one of their own top profs.
Black officer on the scene:
Sgt. Leon Lashley: “I support what Sgt. [Jim] Crowley did. I support what he did. It’s as simple as I can say it.”
Oh snap. Maybe you guys want to walk back your accusations of Crowley behaving like a thug or being racist.
Also, take a look at the link and see what he has to say about what Obama said.
Kirby, when Aldrich's book came out, that particular story got no play in the media, probably because it involved Chelsea, who was about 16-17 in 96. One wonders if the Bush twins would have been so protected.
Kirby -
"The president didn't say that he had acted stupidly in making the remarks he had made, so it's not a full mea culpa, but he does say he could "have calibrated his remarks differently""
Being Obama means never having to say you're sorry...even when you obviously are.
Skippy = race hustling Harvard Hillbilly.
Lee = Obamabot executing a sub-routine.
Of course, this contrtemp is on a friday afternoon--the big question is will it be the talk of the sunday show and tells.
Oh snap. Maybe you guys want to walk back your accusations of Crowley behaving like a thug or being racist.
Again, unlike you I'm guessing, I know some black police officers. The shield comes before just about anything. Only if you don't know about the "blue code", might this come as a surprise,
Invisible -
"Again, unlike you I'm guessing, I know some black police officers. The shield comes before just about anything. Only if you don't know about the "blue code", might this come as a surprise,"
Or maybe...just maybe....you were wrong...
Think about it.
Skip is being wedged under the bus next to grandma and Jeremiah.
Mission Accomplished , BO.
Lars -
Obama's biggest problem is that he put Gates on the bus in the first place. If he had just kept his nose out of it like any halfway smart person would have, then there would have been no need to throw him under it.
I suspect that Lynn Sweet, who has covered Obama for years, had a very good idea that Obama wouldn't be able to help himself but to pull out the race card rather than simply duck the question or defer to local authorities. After all, she knows him far better than any of the national media.
I can't think of any other reason that she would ask such a question when the White House told her that Obama would be calling on her later in the evening. Anybody else would have demurred an answer, but Sweet knew something that told her that he wouldn't.
It seems Gates performance in front of the police is just another case of self-defeating behavior which keeps crime present in minority neighborhoods and always at odds with authorities.
http://www.youtube.com/v/uj0mtxXEGE8
Instapundit links to a story about public housing tenants assaulting the cable tv repairmen "because" the housing authority doesn't fix the place. This is like vanadalizing your air conditioner because the plumber is late.
Middle class values are not the default values of everyone and they are not magically transmitted no matter what else happens.
Tscottme -
"This is like vanadalizing your air conditioner because the plumber is late."
You mean that's not the proper response? Oh dear...
::sets to work finding the scattered pieces of his air conditioner::
Jim
Jim,
I guess we understand words in the english language to mean different things. From the police report:
"I was lead to believe Gates was in the residence lawfully"
At that point game is over is it not? I believe we both know the answer to that question. Gates was placed under arrest loooong after the responding officer knew that there was no breaking and entering.
Does that make the cop a racist? Not necessarily but if you read the report here:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates2.html
it becomes abundantly clear that this is a case of the cop not liking the guy's attitude. Facts are facts.
Invisible -
"Again, unlike you I'm guessing, I know some black police officers. The shield comes before just about anything. Only if you don't know about the "blue code", might this come as a surprise,"
This is clearly a lie. Either you don't know any or your lying about what any have told you.
The idea that a black cop today would endorse a racist cop for the "blue code" is just stupid.
Now I doubt that you ever even saw a black person in real life. If you ever do, try suggesting that he would do such a thing. I can then join him in kicking your racist ass.
What's missing? What's missing is any question about the alleged "second person" seen trying to force Prof. Gates' door. Find out who that person and you might just discover what prompted Gates' reaction to the question concerning any others being in the house with him. That man [Gates] is hiding something, something EMBARASSING!!! As soon as he comes out of the closet, he might be willing to share...
Paul, The other person was a driver that left before the cop arrived, as I understand.
Billybeck - are you saying Gates owns the house? That's a fact in your world? Fascinating...
Come on folks, is any of this really a surprise?
bagoh20 said...
Paul, The other person was a driver that left before the cop arrived, as I understand.
Righto...
"This is bullshit, Ann. Go read the police report to see how completely impertinent it is: that cop arrested him after he was convinced that Gates was the homeowner.
Can you understand the implications of this fact?"
<*sigh*> How can you *not* understand that the arrest had nothing whatsoever to do with burglary, but with Gates' following the cop outside and continuing to abuse him after the burglary matter was cleared up?
----------------
"Personal pigs":
I happen to know the DC Police' then-liason with the Secret Service for motorcade security and the like. Sgt. X had many personal interactions with the Clintons and confirmed that they, especially Hillary, exhibited an aversion and rudeness towards law enforcement bordering (at least) on contempt.
Isn't it funny that O'bama was so vague on all the health care/insurance questions, but real direct on the Gates one.
This is clearly a lie. Either you don't know any or your lying about what any have told you.
Ohhhhhh! I went to law school with 2 black sherrif's, and one of my good (not best) friends is an officer in Atlanta, who was actually written about because he was one of the first officers to take advantage of an Atlanta program that gave grants to cops who live in the communities they police. He also dated a stripper in college for about a year and a half, but that's for another day. But yes since my comment doesn't fit your worldview, I am obviously lying.
Now I doubt that you ever even saw a black person in real life.
Oh, and I forgot this. Other than my mother and father, I don't think I know any black people.
It is just like 99.99% of the law enforcement actions in this country. Cop does his job. Principle bitches about it. Uninformed and uninvolved person complains. It happens thousands of times a day all over this country. Usually it is the sub 0.01% case where the cop is in the wrong that gets the prime time coverage. But since this time the uninformed uninvolved was the POTUS it hits prime time and oops the cop is right and it makes all but the cop look stupid or worse. So what does the media do? Spin it so the cop had to be wrong.
People, the country made a huge mistake last November and I'll admit the republicans with the help of the media didn't give us a real clear choice, but it was still a mistake. This is just one little example of the ramifications of that mistake. 2010 can't get here soon enough!
Billy Beck wrote:
"If the ID did not show the address of the house that had been broken into, then Crowley's continuing investigation into whether Gates really lived there was perfectly reasonable."
This is bullshit, Ann. Go read the police report to see how completely impertinent it is: that cop arrested him after he was convinced that Gates was the homeowner.
Can you understand the implications of this fact?"
Again, Gates was not arrested for not being the rightful homeowner. He was arrested for disorderly conduct. That can happen even you are acting in a disorderly fashion in your own home. THAT is the implication of this fact.
But you're confusing the time frame. Ann is bringing up the discussion of the id presented to the cops not having the address, thus not resolving the question of whether Gates was actually the homeowner.
The arrest which occured shortly after is a completely separate question to why the cop was not satisfied with the identification produced by Gates. And no one is suggesting that somehow Gates was arrested for not being the homeowner.
This was a random call. The policeman was not profiling Gates. He was called to the house because someone noticed one or two people in front of the door apparently breaking into Gates's house.
And in fact Gates did break into his own house. Now there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for why he did so, but the police have every reason to go to his house and his neighbors have every reason to have placed the call. He could have avoided any and all issues simply by cooperating with the cops and not try to turn this into a racial incident.Once he is acting like a crazy person in public and not letting go, the cops if they feel it's warranted have every right to arrest him, not for not being the property owner but for engaging in disorderly conduct.
Invisible,
Notice how you avoid disputing my main point:
"The idea that a black cop today would endorse a racist cop for the "blue code" is just stupid."
BTW, do your "black parents" and "friends" realize you have such a low opinion of them, or is it just self-loathing?
Even though Obama prefaced his comments yesterday with, “I don’t know – not having been there and not seeing all the facts…” he thereafter felt it appropriate to malign the fine, upstanding Cambridge officers involved and impugn their integrity, in addition to his snide commentary that they acted “stupidly.” Indeed there was at least one party to this whole ordeal acting stupidly, but it was not the Cambridge Police Department. Rather, it was Obama who felt it incumbent to turn a local law-enforcement/municipal issue into that of a national "race" incident.
But, the reasons Obama turning it into such an issue are relatively easy to discern. The long-standing relationship between Obama-Gates-Ogletree and the Cambridge Police Department can be discovered by anyone the with inclination and/or patience to research it.
BTW, do your "black parents" and "friends" realize you have such a low opinion of them, or is it just self-loathing?
My names "Invisible Man" and not Clarence Thomas. You must be confused.
I’m as anti-authoritarian as the next libertarian, but when you are confronted with two law officers who have had to don protective gear in order to shield your house, your property and possibly your family from being victimized, you tell them thank you very, very much and that’s it.
Gates is going on, “I’m a Harvard professor!” Unfortunately he does represent how I’ve come to view profs at elite schools–effete, whining and unable to function in the real world.
Obama? Shooting off his mouth without the facts is the very definition of acting stupidly. He paid by the first 95% of his presser getting trashed by an otherwise trivial issue.
Race? This is more about class. When did our leadership class become so major-league worthless?
Finally, I'm not certain, but I think a primary concern of police in such situations is the possibility of spousal/family abuse.
Paul says "That man [Gates] is hiding something, something EMBARASSING!!!"
I don't think this is true. Gates has spent his whole life discussing racism, which typically (nowadays) includes the idea that whites are priviledged. People who do this tend to instinctively believe events negative to blacks are racially motivated. After all, believing these things happen to whites is inconsistent with them leading lives of priviledge.
So he leaps to the conclusion it's racism. Because he's a member of the elite and this is his topic he uses the event to make the biggest impact he can.
Ok Invisible Man,
I'll take that as a concession that your comment impugning the black cop present at the incident was just lame adhesion to being on the wrong side of this issue. Probably, for the sake of consistency.
I would like to know if Mr. Gates is found to have lied, will he be charged with filing a false complaint? If not, he should be. One must understand that just because "YOU" think you are ultra important in this world, does not mean that you are. This is effectually another (so called) prominent black scholar who has made his career on the backs of the downtrodden of his race and offered little, if any help to them other than to espouse his hatred for America and wearing what amounts to a Victim banner on his sleeve to attempt to perpetuate those very things that keep this country in a racial divide. Mr. Gates, go ride along with the men and women of the CPD and listen to their calls for service and witness what they do and who they have to put up with on a daily basis. You may have a different view of what REALLY goes on in America where and when and by whom most crimes are committed. BUT....what the heck, your mind is too closed to understand reality. YOU, sir, would rather fabricate the non truths and spoon feed them to your students as gospel. DISGRACEFUL!!!
Yes, and obviously, you don't want anyone to see the truth, either. There was nothing contemptuos about my comment. Just common sense.
Finally, I'm not certain, but I think a primary concern of police in such situations is the possibility of spousal/family abuse.
Now your just making stuff up. I'm surprised that I haven't heard about his vigilance about terrorrism. C'mon.
John: "it should not be a crime to be rude to a cop."
That's not what he was arrested for. He was disturbing the peace. That's why the officer made the point about warning Gates that he was becoming disorderly, which Gates ignored, and his yelling drawing onlookers who appeared surprised and alarmed. Any incident has the potential to get out of hand once it starts to attract a crowd and there is a lot of yelling. That's the essence of disorderly conduct. Sgt. Crowley handled the situation in such a way as to prevent it from getting out of hand and to limit the disturbance quickly.
Why do you think we call them PEACE officers? They have a duty to protect the public peace and quiet, which is fundamental to the reason police forces were created in the first place.
The police were doing their job he should be glad that they were trying to protect his home. They would have done the same thing if it had been a white person or any other color.With no ID except to show that he was a Professer "Woooo" Obama should have stayed out of it completely. He was just showing his true colors. "No pun intended."
Maybe I watch too many movies but, if the cops showed up at my door because a report of a break in in progress is called in by my neighbors and I really did have to break into my own home, I would be thankful that the police showed up and asked the questions that were asked. I would have not any quarrels showing ID with my name and address. I also think it was very smart to ask if there is anyone in the house with you. Could it be a hostage situation with a Harvard professor who is also a friend of Obama's? Anything is possible in these times and Gates needs to come down off his high horse(or get knocked off) and be glad that a cop responded. If it were true racism, who cares if a black man's house got broken into.
Wow, I am shocked that this is such a big story. It's a big story because this person is well known, it became bigger when the president weighed in on it. He weighed in on it because it was wrong. This type of wrong happens to brown people every single day, it is never addressed because the victims are not famous. I am so happy it happened because now this fact can no longer be swept under the rug-it needs to be addressed. And about the president's off the cuff remark-it was spot on. Obama was a civil rights attorney and has seen this sort of thing more than many could imagine I'm sure. He did not over step his boundaries of leadership in any. It is within his capacity as president to call it as he sees it. The problem is that we have not heard anyone with this level of authority speak out on such issues since the civil rights movement. I think most Americans want to believe that things like this and worse don't happen anymore, but sadly they do. Instead of griping about what the president said about the issue use the Gates event as an opportunity to get the fact that this type of treatment is still out there.
By the by, why didn't the officer question the neighbor to see if they recognized the professor if he had any doubt? Would that not have been easier?
I find it interesting that this issue originated when the woman made the call to the Cambridge police department . I hope that she's happy that she's the real culprit in all of the controversy simply by her quote to the police , " that she saw two black males who appeared to be breaking and entering " . She descriptilvely detailed the two men by their culture . Would there had been the kind of national uproar had her words been , " she saw two males that appear to be breaking and entering " ? Not that the Cambridge police would have treated the call any less of an urgency to respond . It seems that her choice to use culture to describe the identity of the two men were designed to make more of this issue than what was necessary . She's probably laughed at all of this just to know that she opened up a " nationl case of worms " .
Doesn't anyone know that you don't mouth off to police. Being Harvard doesn't give him any extra rights. AND, Mr. Obama started the racial turbulence. I think we just got a glimpse of his true colors
-liberals question authority---
What horse)(**. Liberals question nothing.
---Nothing about the broken media, nothing about failing public education, nothing about corrupt unions, nothing about big city machines, nothing about race hustling, and certainly nothing about their messiah.
Billy Beck wrote:
This is bullshit, Ann. Go read the police report to see how completely impertinent it is: that cop arrested him after he was convinced that Gates was the homeowner.
How is this relevant to Ann's point? When the cop was trying to determine Gates's identity him producing a Harvard ID card that doesn't say where he lives may not answer the question for the police officer that he is the owner of the house.
And again, Gates wasn't arrested for not being the owner of the house. He was arrested for disorderly conduct, which could have occured whether he was the owner or not. Two different questions, and two different time periods in the interaction.
And the true implication of the fact, is not that the cops were racially targeting Gates, but that Gates was acting like an asshole and was so belligerent to the cops they booked him on a disorderly charge, not because of his race but because he acted like prick.
Think about this interaction. The cop is not targeting him, the cop gets called to a location he's never seen before to look into a potential break in of Gates' house. The cop doesn't know Gates,he only has info that he can gather while on the scene. And Gates, did in fact, break into his own house, so the neighbors, who reported the crime were not racially targeting him because he was a black man, they were calling the cops about what they thought was suspicious behavior.
Think about how this might have been a different transaction if Gates simply said "Sorry officer, this is my house. I did have to break into it, but that's because I left my keys (or the door was broken etc). Here's my id.Would you like my license as well. Sorry for the mixup".
We would not be reading about this if Gates didn't act like a complete jackass and turn a molehill of his own making (he was the one who broke into his house) into a mountain because of his jackassery. If the cop were a true rogue, like he says, he's lucky he wasn't tased. But of course Gates was simply behaving like a brat and immediately went to playing of the race card.
Billy, what does that fact have to do with Gates' shouting his head off in public? If he wants to do that, he should make sure first others don't have to hear him from across the property line.
Do you think he'd have been arrested if he had in fact followed the officer out to talk instead of shout?
She descriptilvely detailed the two men by their culture . Would there had been the kind of national uproar had her words been , " she saw two males that appear to be breaking and entering "
She described them by their appearance. There's nothing improper in that.
I used to work at a company that realized it had no black managers. So, they hired a black guy as a manager. What happened then was the guy acted like he was hired as a manager, and no one liked it. He soon fell into disfavor and a white guy was hired in his place. I see the same thing in Obama. America voted for him, but then got offended when he started to act like he was the President. America is the most racist country in the world, and we can thank Bush for that, who told everyone who would listen that Arabs were terrosists and they should all be killed. And white America picked up on it and it lingers today.
The one issue I have not seen discussed about this case is that of sufficient probable cause for the police actions.
Was a member of the public reporting "suspicious activity" (Gates trying to get into his own house by means almost all of us have had to do at one time or another) probable cause for officers to believe the possibility of a crime either in progress or committed?
My answer as a former cop with a degree in law enforcement (not just academy training) is "no". My answer as a homeowner who has been accosted by police on more than one occasion, including a faulty search warrant, is "hell, no". My answer as a believer in the Constitution and an observer of American life for the last half century, wherein police power has grown exponentially and governments have reduced my freedoms, is "God damn you, no!"
Color does not matter here. What matters here is how far we will allow our authorities to go towards a police state, where anyone can ruin the lives of a citizen by simply saying they saw him do something "suspicious".
The cops in this case had no right to go as far as they did. They had no right to go any further than knock on the door and ask if there was a problem. In fact, they would have had no right to do that, in my opinion, just on the basis of the report from an observer.
And if the person in the house didn't answer the door, or closed it in their face, or said "no problem" and then closed the door, they would have no recourse to further action.
Since when does someone in their own home have to provide any authority with proof of their identity and right to be in it? Even if their means of ingress is unusual?
(In Britain, under recent totalitarian law changes, citizens of the world's first state to limit its own power over them are now no better off than East Germans were under the Stasi. Their homes are no longer their castles, and over 1,000 bureaucratic agencies, not just the police, have the unchallengeable right to demand entry and do any number of intrusive things in the occupants affairs. Orwell is spinning in his grave: he predicted this as far back as the 1920s!)
The key here is that the police did not meet the test of "reasonableness" that the Constitution -- still -- demands. Burglars don't look and talk like professors (from any institution), don't usually answer the door and tell the cops to go away, and don't usually stand in plain view to break in.
This is a clear abuse of police authority. What happened to the subservience of the state to the citizen? Be afraid, America.
mkopp -
There are so many errors in your 'analysis' it's hard to know where to begin.
Yes. The cops had an absolute right to investigate a possible crime on the property. An eyewitness report of a break-in would hold up in any court of law as "probable cause."
That you fail to understand this renders the rest of your utterly ridiculous essay moot. I could go point by point and show you just how insanely wrong you are on every single issue, but what would be the point? You can't even figure out probable cause.
Go back to law school, but stay off the beat. This level of ignorance makes you dangerous.
Brian -
"I see the same thing in Obama. America voted for him, but then got offended when he started to act like he was the President."
America got offended when his every policy move cost people jobs and tanked the economy. The ones that weren't publicly embarrassing the country overseas that is.
Jan -
" I hope that she's happy that she's the real culprit in all of the controversy simply by her quote to the police , " that she saw two black males who appeared to be breaking and entering " ."
What planet are you living on? There were two black men attempting to break into the front door. Gates said so himself. She did what any good neighbor would do: she called the cops.
She's not responsible for Gates' racist attitude, his belligerent attitude, his insulting the cops' mother, or his standing on his front porch screaming his head off.
She didn't do anything wrong. On the other hand, you did. You tried to blame his bad behavior on an innocent woman. You should be ashamed.
kitty -
"By the by, why didn't the officer question the neighbor to see if they recognized the professor if he had any doubt? Would that not have been easier?"
No. If two men are reported breaking into a house, the obvious response is to go the house to see if two men were breaking into a house. As it turns out, they were doing exactly that.
The problem is that one of those black men happened to be a racist jackass with a chip on his shoulder. Instead of cooperating with the officer, he immediately went off on him for no reason, and then continued to harangue the guy when he tried to leave. He topped it off by raising a public commotion out on his front porch - which is what he got arrested for.
For a Harvard professor, he sure showed a whole lot of ignorant stupidity.
td -
"At that point game is over is it not? "
Evidently you are having some difficulty with the English language, because the officer attempted to leave. Gates followed him out the door while insulting his mother and screaming about the cop being a racist.
He was arrested because he went outside and was trying to incite the gathering crowd against the officer. I keep saying this over and over again. Look up the definition of disorderly conduct: Gates was definitely guilty of it.
I swear that some people need to read through these threads before repeating the same old talking points over and over again that have been repeatedly debunked.
Educate yourself before trying to comment again. Your attempted snarkiness only makes you look ignorant in the attempt.
Events like this are what makes it difficult for white Americans to take even legitimate complaints of racism seriously. That the race card appears to have been played so early in the hand, instantly turned the game into one of liars poker rather than a game of go fish.
The backpedaling of "The Anointed One" while addressing his PR legions, and his insincere invitation to share a beer with the parties involved, show how ludicrous this whole thing is.
People need to control their emotions in certain situations. No matter how superior their positions in this society are.
Hopefully the DA has the cojones to go through with the prosecution.
Robert,
"wogs" in my understanding is an acronym meaning "working on government service. It has been normally applied to such individuals in what was once the British empire and now remains an unpleasant left-over.
Cedarford and all who agree with his/her statement:
Thank you. I would appreciate any and all attempts to try and come to an understanding of how I feel. Don't try to get to know me. Leave me alone. Let me work on my job and leave me to do my work without trying to "help me fit in". I don't need your obvious overly-helpful phony attempts to prove to me you are not racist. I don't care. Let me live where I want. Just stay out of my way. I don't want or need your damn understanding about how whites and blacks can live together in harmony. The damage is done and can't be repaired. I have lived around and worked with you all my life. I am not interested in you, your life and how you have or had a black friend. I don't care that you know the latest R&B song or rap. I hope you choke on the damn fried chicken and those greens you keep raving about, that your one black friend served at the cook-out on the 4th of July. You might not consider it racist but it is annoying as hell. So yes, leave me the HELL ALONE. Thank you:)
All of the comments that claim to know happier endings to similar ID situations with the police are hilarious. OF COURSE you welcome the cops into your house and OF COURSE you were not offended or arrested as a result- YOU ARE WHITE.
Gates has been defending his position as a black graduate and then a professor for years. No white person could understand this.
And even though he was arrested for disorderly conduct, and not for robbery, the police were acting on emotion and not on a legitimate criminal offense.
If he had been a white professor, I truly believe that the defensive behavior would have been perceived as a man defending his home and his position.
But if he were white, he wouldn't have to. The police wouldn't have put him in the position to do that. And a white professor wouldn't get as defensive because he hadn't been discriminated against for his whole life.
Stop comparing your lame stories because they're irrelevant.
The beauty of privilege is that those who benefit from it don't have to acknowledge it, that's the point!
Black people are not excused from personal responsibility, but should be awarded the same status-based respect that white people get. Even from jealous cops with chips on their shoulders, because they don't have a PhD.
Clarita,
Your ignorance is astounding. Whites routinely put up with bullying from cops. Everyone does.
Ann thinks that it is perfectly ok to arrest two gay people in the privacy of their own home - just for having sex.
She also believes that the US government can capture you, torture you, and kill you, all without a trial. Sorry that later part should read "should' not "could"
Are we surprised that she thinks that people can be arrested for yelling at cops when you're in your own home and have done nothing wrong?
Ann has gone full scale wingnuttia. And the wingnuts claims to be "oh so concerned" about privacy and the constitution. I call bullshit.
I see the same thing in Obama. America voted for him, but then got offended when he started to act like he was the President.
Here, I fixed that for you.
I see the same thing in Obama. America voted for him, but then got offended when he started to act like he was the most leftist idiot to hold the office since FDR, and worse to the extent he's building stupidity onto that one's legacy.
Yours, TDP, ml, msl, & pfpp
I had a similar encounter while rebuilding my home after Hurricane Katrina. I was inside my home installing subflooring when a black police officer enters my home and asks if I have ID showing this is my home. I pulled my drivers license out and showed him. He said there had been several thefts in the area and sorry to disturb you. End of tale. This professor probably had a huge ego of how famous his was and got pissed off when the officer did not recognize him and went ballistic.
any one of you people that are taking the teachers side of this matter must be racist. he is, your president is. from my point of view 80 or 90 % of the black folks are also.
I'm tired of Blacks pretending that only they are scrutinized by the police. My dad and I were at our business in Ontario, CA on a Saturday. We were working in our outside yard moving things around with two forklifts. Then I heard behind me: "Would you stop the forklifts and step over here". I turned around and a white officer with his hand up by his holster was looking right at us. I shut off the lift and got down. BY THE WAY, I'M as WHITE AS WHITE BREAD! He asked to see ID, We gave him our drivers License's which did not have our business addresses on them. He called in our info. Then I told him I could unlock the front door to the business and let him look at our business cards. He had me do that. Finally after getting the all clear from dispatch that we had no warrants, and he was satisfied that we owned the business and had the right to be there, the officer left! SEE HOW EASY IT IS TO DEAL WITH THE POLICE, IF YOU DON'T ACT LIKE AN ASS AND THINK IT IS ALWAYS ABOUT RACISM!!!!! THE PROFESSOR IS A FIRST CLASS, ELITIST, LOSER, WHINY, BABY and should be ASHAMED OF HIMSELF FOR HIS BEHAVIOR!
I'm tired of Blacks pretending that only they are scrutinized by the police. My dad and I were at our business in Ontario, CA on a Saturday. We were working in our outside yard moving things around with two forklifts. Then I heard behind me: "Would you stop the forklifts and step over here". I turned around and a white officer with his hand up by his holster was looking right at us. I shut off the lift and got down. BY THE WAY, I'M as WHITE AS WHITE BREAD! He asked to see ID, We gave him our drivers License's which did not have our business addresses on them. He called in our info. Then I told him I could unlock the front door to the business and let him look at our business cards. He had me do that. Finally after getting the all clear from dispatch that we had no warrants, and he was satisfied that we owned the business and had the right to be there, the officer left! SEE HOW EASY IT IS TO DEAL WITH THE POLICE, IF YOU DON'T ACT LIKE AN ASS AND THINK IT IS ALWAYS ABOUT RACISM!!!!! THE PROFESSOR IS A FIRST CLASS, ELITIST, LOSER, WHINY, BABY and should be ASHAMED OF HIMSELF FOR HIS BEHAVIOR!
I'm tired of Blacks pretending that only they are scrutinized by the police. My dad and I were at our business in Ontario, CA aa few years back on a Saturday. We were working in our outside yard moving things around with two forklifts. Then I heard behind me: "Would you stop the forklifts and step over here". I turned around and a white officer with his hand up by his holster was looking right at us. I shut off the lift and got down. BY THE WAY, I'M as WHITE AS WHITE BREAD! He asked to see ID, We gave him our drivers License's which did not have our business addresses on them. He called in our info. Then I told him I could unlock the front door to the business and let him look at our business cards. He had me do that. Finally after getting the all clear from dispatch that we had no warrants, and he was satisfied that we owned the business and had the right to be there, the officer left! SEE HOW EASY IT IS TO DEAL WITH THE POLICE, IF YOU DON'T ACT LIKE AN ASS AND THINK IT IS ALWAYS ABOUT RACISM!!!!! THE PROFESSOR IS A FIRST CLASS, ELITIST, LOSER, WHINY, BABY and should be ASHAMED OF HIMSELF FOR HIS BEHAVIOR!
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