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48 comments:
Sarah Palin is so fucking incredible, I can't even believe she exists!
I'm in your NYT..
Makin' a Palin Vortek!
Like commenting on Michael Jackson is likely not to be the final word until the autopsy is complete and his leeches crawl out of the swamp to "tell" what was really going on between those closed doors - we should wait for the dust to clear on Palin.
What are her real intentions?
President?
Or using her Cult following like Jesse Jackson did for self-enrichment?
Or add the extra factor Jesse Jackson did of showing up everywhere his Cult was strong, seeking the spotlight, and claiming he was a Great Democratic Powerbroker?
Lets see what deals Palin has lined up, and how well quitting the 1st term Gov job she had will pad the Palin back account.
Baby's got back - it don't need no paddin'.
St. Ann,
I greatly admire your patience. I could barely stand watching the NYT excerpt; I can't imagine sitting through the entire session with Goldberg.
C-4... Why do you feel a need to pin the "cult" accusation onto Palin supporters? That word is defined as a group based upon secret doctrines and started by a false prophet/leader. The Nazi's in Germany were by definition a cult that took over a Nationstate. What do you know? Please share it.
@mariner I can take it!
I feel sorry for Goldberg and all the young women who have her view of the world. Because of her youth,she has no idea what she is doing to her family if she should ever have one.
The folly of youth is destruction.
It's so sad.
I can see why Ann posted this.
She is the epitamy of calm intelligence while Goldberg comes across as a parody of a lame brained liberal. Goldberg does not even seek to dispute Ann's assertion that Obama was under qualified. She just spouts how great he is, obviously because she agrees with his politics, while she declares a governor, former mayor and vp nominee is not qualified to run a middle school.
Of course, Palin could become president. It remains unlikely because she has been very effectively damaged by democrats and media who were scared to death by her, and by her own missteps.
I had doubts that Palin would run (I think she more wants fame and money), but I did see today that she seized the issue that could be the downfall of Obama -- excessive spending. If he runs up huge debts and the economy does not rebound, he is toast and any Republican will win (like how this year turned out - any democrat would have won).
I loved this diavlog. Such incisive baiting: Everybody knows that Palin won the debate, Limbaugh offers a positive message.
Musta been fun.
I'm not sure I have anything more to say.
I am not sure if this thread will live up to expectations - it seems to be the same debate we discussed a day or two ago. Michelle still comes across as a mind controlled liberal fanatic, spouting all the latest talking points about Palin.
But if we are going to talk cults, then maybe we should talk Michelle (Goldberg, not Obama), and her infatuation with "the one".
I was a bit sensitive last week when one of the more liberal posters questioned the use of "the one" in regards to Obama, but then, after listing to Michelle, I realized that it was the zombie like following of Obama by otherwise intelligent people like her that led to that tag.
I found it fascinating how Michelle considered Palin delusional for thinking that she could be President, but that Obama was not, because apparently he was being realistic, and was so smart. But as Ann kept trying to point out, her credentials are probably better than his in actually having had some executive experience.
Why do you feel a need to pin the "cult" accusation onto Palin supporters?
Cult refers to people who voluntarily mass for uncritical adoration of a person or a belief.
Besides Palin and Jesse, other US politicians have a Cult following.
Think of the Cult of Adoration that formed around Black Messiah.
Or the Ron Paul minions. The small, loyal mob Al Sharpton commands.
Even cults formed around dead politicians or celebrities that are seen as symbolizing a certain sort of politics that lack a working brain. (Acolytes flocking to the Global Warming Gospel of ALGORE, the most extreme prolife zealots flocking to Goddess Terri Schiavo...)
And Cult of Personality is not unfamiliar outside the USA. (See Stalin, Mao, Chavez, Eva Peronism, Cult of DeGaulle, etc.)
Palin fits the category of cults forming around the personality of individual charismatics that have accomplished little in their lives in the way of leadership. Who are impatient with details and tedious work needed to deal with the "trivial part" of their jobs. They aren't even people that fell in place as symbols of a movement they helped establish. They are people who have no coherent program or vision - yet shoot for the Top.
See Obama, Jesse Jackson, Sarah Palin, Dennis Kucinich, Lady Di.
I certainly hope they cover your wedding; then you know you've arrived!
She is the epitamy of calm intelligence while Goldberg comes across as a parody of a lame brained liberal. Goldberg does not even seek to dispute Ann's assertion that Obama was under qualified. She just spouts how great he is, obviously because she agrees with his politics, while she declares a governor, former mayor and vp nominee is not qualified to run a middle school.
I too was impressed with Ann here and how calm and intelligent she sounded, in comparison to Michelle's knee jerk liberal theology.
rad.bill
The hatred of Palin is rooted in our little discussed and hardening class system. Palin is lower middle class, a product of a third tier state university, a Pentecostal, lacking a mid Atlantic accent, etc..
Her enemies consider her ambitions delusional, in part, because she had the nerve to reach for something no longer available to her kind.
Those who think that Palin should be planning a 2012 presidential run might want to read Dick Polman's column.
As of today, Palin's main primary opposition would be governors. Governors who have faced hostile legislatures. Governors who didn't quit.
It seems implausible that she doesn't get this.
Michelle dear, I just can't understand from where people like you derive this myth that the quality of thinking represented by Harvard Law School graduates is so clearly superior to that of a capable person with native intelligence. Public policy is not rocket science. You seem to have this fantasy that resident genius Obama would -- if the nasty republicans just let him alone -- sit before an array of dials and perfectly calibrate all facets of American life from moment to moment, whereas idiotic Palin couldn't find the on/off button. But the idiocy is yours, Michelle, because *no such brilliant machine exists, nor will it ever exist*
Dick Polman, despite having an unfortunate name, makes the right points in his column. Palin has her fans, but I seriously doubt she'll be any kind of serious Presidential contender after this latest meltdown. It's all about my man Mitt for 2012.
Things are shaping up pretty nicely for Mitt in 2012, at this point. The election almost certainly will be about the economy. If things are okay, then Obama is re-elected. If not, he is beaten.
OK, I've got a confession to make. I have posted to several of these Palin threads over the past few days because I wanted to see how long some of you could be baited into showing your totally misplaced unwavering support for her. Clearly, to my delight, some of you will be goaded into supporting her all the way through the Republican primaries. It would be the coolest thing that I can imagine if Palin is the nominee. She is clearly the best representative of what has become the rank and file of the party. So all I have to say is "YOU GO GIRL!"
Bruce Hayden - one of the Deans on the Althouse blog (everyone is thankful you are back in force on recent posts) really said it best above.
To recap for those who have not yet watched the video of Ann and Michelle Goldberg this post is about:
Michelle Goldberg is a pompous, spoiled know-nothing, who belongs on Jay Leno's "Jaywalking" videos because of her incredible inaanity and level of self-righteous stupidity. And that's on every subject and word out of her mouth after she gives her name.
Enjoy.
Enjoy.
Translating Althouse:
"This is sure to be a 200+ comment thread" ="I give you raw red meat in the form of Michelle Goldberg. Tear her apart!!!!"
That final sentence, of course, delivered in the same feral shriek Bruce Davison used delivering a similar line to his pet rats in "WIllard."
Jesus.
I agree that Michelle Goldberg is whiny and annoying and that Professor Althouse is patient to endure her. Goldberg reminds me of many whiny students I have had, who wanted me to change a B- to an A, when they deserved a C-. I also think she glosses over Obama’s weaknesses.
But I gotta tell you folks, Palin doesn’t do it for me. She is cringe-worthy and I don’t buy what most of her defenders are saying.
jag said “The hatred of Palin is rooted in our little discussed and hardening class system. Palin is lower middle class, a product of a third tier state university, a Pentecostal, lacking a mid Atlantic accent, etc..
Her enemies consider her ambitions delusional, in part, because she had the nerve to reach for something no longer available to her kind.”
Palin’s parents’ were both college-educated teachers with tenure. That means Palin came from a pretty garden variety middle class home, more or less the level of Obama’s maternal grandparents, maybe even just a touch above.
The issue is not that Palin went to a third-tier state university; the issue is that Palin went to FIVE DIFFERENT third-tier universities. That has to raise an alarm bell with any thinking person. It raises issues not only of intelligence and the pursuit of excellence, but also of emotional stability. Obama went to a Black Liberation Theology church, which has only marginally greater status than being a Pentecostal. Bill Clinton, a Southern Baptist, most certainly did not have a Mid-Atlantic accent.
I could go on and on, but I suggest people check out Matthew Yglesias’s column (and the excellent discussion in the comm boxes) on the class system in the US.A.
Here’s the point and then I’m outta here for a while. Palin will never win over the Michelle Goldbergs and Katie Courics of the world, just as Obama will never win over the Sean Hannitys of the world. Elections are won by appealing to the Independents and Palin consistently struggles with that group.
Michelle Goldberg is a snotty little b###h and I would not want to be stuck on an elevator with her. But please, let’s have some realism about Palin’s strengths and weaknesses.
Froto Potter wrote
"But please, let’s have some realism about Palin’s strengths and weaknesses."
Everyone please ignore this advice. Sarah completely ROCKS!
Reasoned, civil discourse on Palin on a leftist blog. I know. I could hardly believe it either.
I still disagree this whole thing was about Sarah running in 2012. I think she wanted out over the constant ethics charges and the financial burden they put her under. She had to choose betewen being $1,000,000 in debt by the end of her term or going out and taking advantage of her celebrity now. I do not blame her.
The most breathtaking statement was Andrew Sullivan's:
I sure hope her family recovers from what she has done to them.
What a shameless mendacious slime he is. If the Wiccan rule of three applies (x3 for good, x3 for bad), Sully is in for a hell of a ride for the mudracking and slandering he did to Palin.
fred -
I'm still wondering why anyone pays attention to Sullivan and his shameless attention-whoring. There's a general consensus across the blogosphere that he's lost his credibility over his Trig Trutherism yet people continue to reward his insanity by going over there to see what his latest crazy-stupid statement of the day is.
If people visiting and stopped giving a rat's behind what kind of crazy he was spewing today, then the Atlantic would just give him his walking papers. But he draws traffic because he's such a train wreck.
Move along, people. There's nothing to see here.
Frodo---
Obama was a member of a UCC church, a liberal denomination very unlike Palin's Assembly of God church.
Palin's mother was a school secretary; her father a track coach (this according to Wiki).
Obama, Bush I & II, and Clinton were Harvard or Yale graduates. Bush II was ridiculed for his Texas twang; Clinton's southern drawl was a populist prop.
Class is the elephant in the American living room.
Marvelling at the fervent idiocy of Palin's critics is not the same as claiming Palin is the best possible representative of the Republican party and/or conservative thought. That's quite a leap happening there.
There is a lot of talk about people who support Palin being delusional, yet thanks to the kind of deep reasoning displayed by Goldberg we have an even less qualified person doing the job now. No experience running anything, ever.
This is where the delusion is actually important and dangerous. Obama and his supporters are delusional to think they know what they are doing. That's being generous because if they do know, then they are just evil. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and say stupid.
This is the matter at hand. Even if Palin is totally incapable of doing the job in 2012 and gets elected, it won't matter - the damage will already be done.
To me the foolishness of the current administration's policies are worse than any Palin would have pursued even if she is twice as bad as her critics suggest.
I mean seriously, what could she possibly have done any worse. Virtual anyone else would have produced a smaller deficit and done less foolishness. Insulting our friends, supporting our enemies, all the stupid staffing mistakes and firing Inspectors General, etc, etc, etc,. Can you even imagine what would be said about Palin if she did these exact same things? What would Goldberg say? See what's happening here? The selective vision.
Keep your eye on the ball, people - this will be your country when these fools are done.
The hatred of Palin is rooted in our little discussed and hardening class system. Palin is lower middle class, a product of a third tier state university, a Pentecostal, lacking a mid Atlantic accent, etc..
Her enemies consider her ambitions delusional, in part, because she had the nerve to reach for something no longer available to her kind.
I do think that there is some truth to this. Michelle kept reasserting that Palin was delusional because she (Palin) was trying to be something that she could never be. Obama wasn't delusional, working for the same goal, with fewer accomplishments, because he could get it.
What I think was implied by her was that the Presidency was within Obama's reach because he is of the right class and has the right educational credentials, whereas Palin is not and does not, and so it is out of her reach.
But I pointed out in a previous thread, that we have tried Ivy League lawyers running the country, and it sure isn't working out all that well right now. Obama, and all the other correctly credentialed people helping him, seem to be making one mistake after another, with few right moves mixed in.
FDR likely extended the Great Depression for much of a decade through his Keynesian spending, and so Obama is doubling down and spending money paying off constituencies as fast as he can, quadrupling Bush's deficit. Tax cuts have shown their worth in helping get us out of past recessions, and so the Obama solution to our economic problems is to raise taxes as fast as he can. Apologizing for America's past sins and putting away the big stick has resulted in both North Korea and Iran accelerating their nuclear programs - at a time when he is in Russia talking getting rid of our own nuclear weapons.
I do think that we may find ourselves in a couple of years saying that those Ivy League lawyers have had their chance at running the country, and they screwed it up badly, so maybe it is time to try a bit more common sense and less radical theory.
Speaking of (and possibly to) the kids, is it unreasonable or blatantly ageist to begin to suspect that punditry might just be a job better left to those with a little more seasoning than some of those who have been doing it lately?
I'm not saying that the callow should be disqualified from commentary or dismissed out of hand, but Ms. Goldberg does seem to show the pitfalls of -- not ironically at all, given the subject -- trying to do a job you're not well prepared for at all.
A sense of perspective, or proportion, is among the things anyone her age might lack, and that she clearly does need.
Marvelling at the fervent idiocy of Palin's critics is not the same as claiming Palin is the best possible representative of the Republican party and/or conservative thought. That's quite a leap happening there.
I agree. I was a Romney supporter before he bowed out, and is likely smarter, and is far better qualified than either Obama or Palin for running this country.
That said, what he couldn't do, and what most Republicans running can't do, is excite the base. Obama won for three reasons. First, the Republican base was disheartened with McCain, esp. after the Bush years. Secondly, a number of independents read a lot of wishful thinking into Obama. And, often ignored, Obama's base was very excited and motivated. A lot of new voters signed up this last election, and most of them voted for Obama.
What most of the Republicans cannot do is excite their base. Romney sure can't. Neither really can any of the other front runners in the Republican Party, except for Palin. The question is whether she can motivate the middle, and she possibly can - at least the Reagan Democrats who broke for Obama this last time. They too are often mid to lower middle class, and didn't attend those Ivy League colleges. She can speak their language, and Obama cannot.
We shall see.
I really don't care if Palin runs or not. I think she could win, because I now think anyone can, as Ann alluded to in the video.
The deciding factor is the huge undecided group that makes up their mind later on in the cycle. They are mostly the sheep who wait to see who seems like the favorite and who is carrying the momentum. They will go for OR against the best candidate to be on the winning side or to do what they think is popularly considered smart or right. This allows anyone with the right campaign to win regardless of qualifications.
I know many voters like this: they know nothing about either candidate, but only who they "like", meaning who they think is cooler so they can feel like they are doing the right thing because they know they have no information. They follow the herd. I think that to some degree this is a huge and decisive voting block.
Especially in 2008. Maybe I know a lot of dumb or lazy people, but most knew nothing about Obama and voted for him anyway, with the usual justification "I just like him better." or "We need a change." Remind you of anybody you know?
Michelle Goldberg could too be Miss California.
I enjoyed the way she rolled her eyes when she talked about how incredibly qualified Obama was to be president. It was the same kind of eye-rolling that, in silent movies, was supposed to convey a woman's sexual thrall. Goldberg has the same kind of dark eyes that worked so well in the early cinema. Just thinking about Obama's qualifications literally got her hot. And in the screen to the right, there is Ann, the older, wiser and another valid candidate for Miss California, observing this thrall with calm amusement.
bagoh20 -
"I know many voters like this: they know nothing about either candidate, but only who they "like", meaning who they think is cooler so they can feel like they are doing the right thing because they know they have no information. They follow the herd. I think that to some degree this is a huge and decisive voting block."
You're absolutely right about this phenomenon being the prime mover in elections: momentum. And so even small differences in perception can cause huge shifts in polling.
That's precisely the danger for Obama and the Democratic Party. Public support was wide, but it was extremely shallow. They were perceived, based on very little fact, to have answers. But people were desperately searching for those answers, so they flocked to the banner in droves. Without much thought, and certainly without checking what was lurking beneath the surface of what the media told them.
Now though, reality is beginning to sink in. It's becoming clear that nothing that they were told was true. The Democrats aren't more ethical: they're more corrupt, they're not going to control spending: they're making it worse; they're not going to improve the economy: they're doing everything they can to sink it; and they're not going to improve our standing in the world: they're going to make us a laughingstock.
We've been here before as a country. It was called "the Carter years."
- Carter won with a small majority after a public perception of mismanagement by a previous Republican administration
- Democrats controlled both houses of Congress
- Carter pushed an extremely Leftist agenda
- Carter too kept telling people they needed to "make sacrifices"
- Carter presided over one of the worst economies in modern times
Anybody else remember how badly Carter lost in 1980 to a guy that the Left and press dismissed as a dim-witted, B-class actor?
It's kinda cute how you guys think we will have another presidential election.
Charles -
"It's kinda cute how you guys think we will have another presidential election."
The 2nd amendment is insurance that we will - one way or the other.
John Stodder - the truly Senior Dean of Althouse - has weighed in.
With the addition of Jim's detailed and well-reasoned comments, this is looking to be one of the best posts ever.
Add Bruce Hayden and the return to sanity and reason is a long needed breath of fresh air for the much too often stale and disappointing Althouse comments section.
The recipe for a happy life surely includes more John Stodder, more Bruce Hayden, more Jim. I can even reduce or eliminate much of my snark that is needed here to balance the ridiculous and voluminous attempts at misinformation and the poorly reasoned excesses of the liberals/left leaners who post here.
The hatred of Palin is rooted in our little discussed and hardening class system. Palin is lower middle class, a product of a third tier state university, a Pentecostal, lacking a mid Atlantic accent, etc..
I'll keep this in mind next time I hear a "conservative" claiming that the "liberals" are all about class warfare.
peter -
"I'll keep this in mind next time I hear a "conservative" claiming that the "liberals" are all about class warfare."
Umm...in case you missed it, the subject was a class system largely created and enforced by the very same Leftists who claim to want an egalitarian society.
Goldberg is incredibly annoying, the Ann Coulter of the left?
Bruce Hayden:
A lot of new voters signed up this last election, and most of them voted for Obama.
A lot of those new voters were imaginary. No one seems to be willing to address this problem, and it gets worse and more blatant with each election.
This is sure to be a 200+ comment thread.
Ha ha. Not even close.
You were as accurate on that prediction as you are on "she's running." Well, if you mean running for President of the United States.
She's obviously running --away from her failures and her, uh, RESPONSIBILITIES as governor.
A flash in the Palin.
Anne Coulter can be annoying, but she is also smart and funny. Goldberg is annoying, dumb and well... dumb.
Goldberg's claim that Sarah's job as governor of Alaska is roughly equivalent to her being head of a some school district in Brooklyn is just too absurd. In the first place, we're talking about the State government, not some school district. Secondly, Alaska isn't a compact district, like a borough of New York; it sprawls over nearly 600,000 square miles of some of the most unforgiving terrain as well as climate on Earth. Thousands and thousands of Alaska citizens, including many natives, live dozens of miles or more from any road, many on remote islands. As far as Alaska's population of just shy of 700,000 in 2008 being just dismissable as trivial, one might note that Virginia's (incubator of many of America's founding fathers, including George Washington and Thomas Jefferson) population in 1787 was also about 700,000 — of whom some 280,000 were slaves.
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