Althouse: "If you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world."

June 3, 2009

"If you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world."

So says President Obama as he leaves on his Middle East trip. I'm posting this because I know a lot of people want to talk about it. I'd resisted putting this up at first, because it obviously simply means that there are plenty of Americans who are Muslims. Not a big percentage, but in a populous country, a big number. Now, I think if a President ever used the phrase "one of the largest Christian countries in the world" to refer to the U.S., a lot of people would see an inappropriate blending of religion and government. But I'm guessing that the folks who are talking about this new quote are also fond of the statement that America is "a Christian nation."

And Obama has been pretty consistent in the way he embraces religion in politics:

140 comments:

Unknown said...: I'm pretty sure that people are talking about it because it's factually false, no? I'm hearing that we're actually the 38th in terms of absolute numbers (I'd imagine even low if you ranked by % of the total population).; 6/3/09, 2:07 PM
AlphaLiberal said...: Time for the right wing to start foaming at the mouth.

Now, I think if a President ever used the phrase "one of the largest Christian countries in the world" to refer to the U.S., a lot of people would see an inappropriate blending of religion and government.

Not me. Many liberals have actually made the point that Christianity is alive and well in the US and there's no reason to get the government involved in promoting it.

(Though I personally believe that Christianity is suffering in thous country from being heavily politicized. A recent poll bore this out).; 6/3/09, 2:09 PM
Methadras said...: The Muslim population in the United States is only .6%. With large enclaves in Detroit, Chicago, New York, San Diego, and a couple of other places I forget. More of his ineptitude coming to bear on this. Indonesia is actually the largest muslim population in the world. So I don't know who is feeding him his numbers, but this is just more of the same incompetence that he is putting on display.; 6/3/09, 2:11 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Seriously does this moron just make shit up and because he 'speaks well' we just take it as a given? Christ you'd think it was Biden that made such a stupid statement and not Mr. Brilliance himself.; 6/3/09, 2:12 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: Althouse : Not a big percentage, but in a populous country, a big number.

Sorry Althouse, but we'd still be 38th. This sounds like an Obamafail to me.; 6/3/09, 2:12 PM
DADvocate said...: Time for the left wing to start foaming from the mouth because they think the right wing will say something about this.

Tom beat me to my point. 38th, not even in the top 25. That'd suck in college football. Speaking of that, Obama seems to think sucking up is a great diplomatic strategy which is why he says meaningless stuff like this.; 6/3/09, 2:12 PM
Methadras said...: "DADvocate said...

is a great diplomatic strategy which is why he says meaningless stuff like this."

It's not that it's meaningless, it's just wrong.; 6/3/09, 2:14 PM
Jeremy said...: 6,000,000 Muslims in America.

9,000,000 in all of North and South America...; 6/3/09, 2:15 PM
Jeremy said...: Methadras said..."The Muslim population in the United States is only .6%."

It's actually more than 2%.; 6/3/09, 2:16 PM
Paul said...: He's pandering to the Muslim world of course because he is a Muslim himself. Bowing to Abdullah sealed the deal for me. That and not bringing his non-Muslim wife to KSA, which is forbidden to Muslims but not to non Muslims.; 6/3/09, 2:17 PM
Bissage said...: By President Obama’s definition, Saudi Arabia is a Christian nation, just a very, very small one.

What would have been so terrible about using straight words to make a straight point?

There are a great many Muslims in the United States and they get on just fine.

Must have been a reason. I just don’t know what it is.; 6/3/09, 2:20 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: There is a bright side to this.

You know all those studies that shows the US near the bottom on certain things? Now we can just group ourselves among the top performers! Now that Obama is in power we're among the top performers in education, access to health care, you name it. It's all a matter of perspective.

It's just like how Obama solved the terrorist problem; by giving terrorism a new name.

I'll give this to Obama, he's good at redefining failure as success.; 6/3/09, 2:24 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Methadras said..."The Muslim population in the United States is only .6%."

It's actually more than 2%..

Actually all stats I ever saw said something around 3 million which would be the population of Dubai.

I think Obambi has been hanging around Biden too much.; 6/3/09, 2:25 PM
Sissy Willis said...: My blood is boiling. We were never "just" a Christian nation, fergossake. I''m thinking of the Touro Synagogue -- "not only the oldest Synagogue in America but also one of the oldest symbols of liberty" -- in Newport, RI, for starters. He gets away with it because they no longer teach the history of this Shining City Upon a Hill in our public schools, let alone our elite institutions of higher education.; 6/3/09, 2:26 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: As to Obama's innocent misstatement, I am way tired of politicians saying anything and the media just takes it down like a good stenographer.

A newspaper might actually turn a profit if it mocked the truly dumb utterances by these stupid fucks. God, this president seems too disinterested to even prepare himself for interviews (i.e speak Austrian now this).; 6/3/09, 2:27 PM
DADvocate said...: The .6% figure comes from the CIA factbook. Wikipedia says 1.5%.

I'm not sure which would be the most reliable. I'd hope the CIA.; 6/3/09, 2:27 PM
DADvocate said...: As to Obama's innocent misstatement, I'm tired of politicians throwing out crap and acting like it's fact.; 6/3/09, 2:29 PM
veni vidi vici said...: Conrad Black writes about this tack of Obama's at NRO today; it's an interesting take on the President's approach, and worth reading.

As for the actual statement Obama made in the quote, outside of the range of our prostrate press' megaphone (i.e., in the rest of the world), these types of sloppily inaccurate statements are or certainly risk creating the impression that this administration lacks attention to detail, doesn't care about the finer points, or is intellectually sloppy, albeit dressed in elocution. Cf. the "Overcharge" button stunt.

That is not a good impression to make, since it will be difficult to be taken seriously when there's more at stake than vagaries and bon mots, as there inevitably will be during any long 4 year term.

I'd like a little more earned confidence that the current group in the White House is paying attention to more than how low the domestic press is bowing to them. So far, not so inspiring.; 6/3/09, 2:31 PM
Unknown said...: Ha ha ha! Someone keeps hacking the Wikipedia page for Islam by country right now to hyperinflate the number of Muslims in the U.S. The last time they did it, the number was between 2.3-73.4 trillion people. I think it has been corrected but there have been three attempts so far.; 6/3/09, 2:32 PM
Unknown said...: Even when corrected, that page is inconsistent. It uses a percentage of 1.5% and an absolute number of 4.6 million on the very last table on the page, but on the very first table, it uses 0.6%-1.0% and absolute numbers of 1.8-3.0 million.; 6/3/09, 2:36 PM
Unknown said...: Maybe he meant the largest Muslim nation in North America.; 6/3/09, 2:37 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: mcg : Ha ha ha! Someone keeps hacking the Wikipedia page for Islam by country right now to hyperinflate the number of Muslims in the U.S.

Try the Demographics of Islam page. It uses just the CIA numbers and has the US as 59th in the world in terms of Muslims.; 6/3/09, 2:38 PM
former law student said...: Conrad Black writes about this tack of Obama's at NRO today; it's an interesting take on the President's approach, and worth reading.

Really, Conrad Black? Don't the prison officials censor his correspondence?; 6/3/09, 2:39 PM
The Dude said...: I think he meant he was the first muslim president of the United States.

That, plus he was told there would be no math.; 6/3/09, 2:41 PM
Richard Dolan said...: That Obama made a slip in describing the US as "one of the largest Muslim countries" is hardly significant. But the little clip of his comments about the US "no longer being a Christian nation" is more interesting.

Here as elsewhere Obama switches from one context to another without pausing to note how the meaning of a phrase like "Christian nation" changes when he does so. Those who describe the US as a "Christian nation" have never doubted that there are (and always have been) many non-Christian citizens living here. It was never meant as a description of the population (although it would be a pretty good approximation if it had been), but that is how Obama deals with it. Instead, the "Christian nation" tag has been used most often to describe the formative influences that gave rise to American civilization. One could just as easily use the tag "Judeo-Christian nation," since in this context they are essentially indistinguishable.

I don't think anyone can sensibly claim that the Buddhist or Hindu traditions were significant in the same way -- they didn't have much impact in forming the character of the American nation at all in the early days, and were rarely mentioned until Emerson and Thoreau cited them (maybe miscited would be better) in the mid-19th century. Even less could one make such a claim about the Muslim tradition.; 6/3/09, 2:44 PM
John said...: Obama just talks out of his ass. It seems pretty obvious that he has never been in a situation where anyone ever called him on anything. You almost have to feel sorry for him. He never learned to think or be careful because he had guilty white liberals kissing his ass his entire adult life. Saying stupid things like this is the inevitable result.; 6/3/09, 2:44 PM
Bissage said...: Must have been a reason. I just don’t know what it is.

No, wait a minute.

I think I just figured it out.

President Obama is about to leave for the Middle East . . .

. . . where there are a lot of Muslims.

Soooooooo . . . if the United States could be, like, a Muslim country, too . . .

. . .then that means we’re just like them . . .

. . .and . . .

THAT MEANS WE’RE ALL BUDS!!1!!!!!!!

Woo-hoo!

* pops non-alcoholic champagne cork *; 6/3/09, 2:46 PM
ricpic said...: Of course if you're unfortunate enough to live in an apartment house with muslims and out of politeness you say hello to a muslim woman on the elevator next thing you know you're visited by one of her terribly riled up uncles or cousins or nephews or brothers brandishing knives and threatening you with bodily harm.

Recently reported story coming out of Toronto.; 6/3/09, 2:50 PM
Jason (the commenter) said...: Richard Dolan : That Obama made a slip in describing the US as "one of the largest Muslim countries" is hardly significant.

Obama not listening to the CIA isn't significant? Wasn't that Bush's problem?; 6/3/09, 2:51 PM
bearbee said...: 9 million Muslims out a total of 1.4 billion.

Did he mention to Netanyahu that if you actually took the number of Jewish Americans, we ARE the largest Jewish country in the world?

Maybe he can mention it when he gets to Cairo.

Mashugana.; 6/3/09, 2:56 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Obama's nonstop apology tours make me suspect Obama took a lot of schoolyard beatings from bullies.; 6/3/09, 2:56 PM
Tibore said...: Folks, by concentrating on numbers, we're really missing out on why this rhetoric will fall on deaf ears in the Middle East: Many Muslims do not consider a country "Muslim"/"Islamic" if the government and the majority of the society does not incorporate Islamic principles, and if they do not live by them. As an extreme example: The overwhelming majority of Saudi Arabia's population is unquestionably Muslim (and in fact, that is a requirement for citizenship), but you will get those (mostly extremists, but with a smattering of mere hardliners) who'll profess that the kingdom is not an "Islamic country". And the reason is their behavior. And this in regards to a country that unquestionably incorporates Islamic principles into their government (hell, that government enforces laws completely by those principles).

As another example, consider nations with aborted Westernization trends: Pre-Khomeni Iran and pre-Taliban and Soviet Invasion Afghanistan. What were the population's complaints back then? Among them was the fact that the governments were not sufficiently Islamic. That fact helped set the background for their downfall. Only Turkey has managed to separate the government from religion, and they don't do it to anywhere near the extent that Western nations do.

The point to this is that the mere fact that the US does not have an Islamic government means that no Muslim will ever consider the US a "Muslim country", regardless of how demographics work out. So what the President said in throwaway rhetoric is ultimately unimportant; his words are meaningless to the intended audience, and that audience will never consider the US a "Muslim country". The mere separation of religion from state is enough to ensure that, even before anyone considers how society acts and the values that Americans hold.; 6/3/09, 2:57 PM
former law student said...: I'm pretty sure that people are talking about it because it's factually false, no?

For the US to be even one of the ten largest Muslim countries in the world, we'd have to be 11% Muslim, which is pretty unrealistic.

Obama's just saying "Don't attack the U.S. because you'll probably end up killing a bunch of Muslims."

Muslims do seem to be getting more prevalent. For example, there's a halal meat market within easy walking distance of me, while the lone kosher meat market in town closed down years ago. But you can buy Empire chicken at the halal market.; 6/3/09, 2:58 PM
Diamondhead said...: Nothing to see here. Just another embarassingly inaccurate statement by the paragon of intelligence. But now we get to see the mental gymnasts on the left adding context.; 6/3/09, 2:58 PM
Anonymous said...: SRSLY? Obama thinks America is a Muslim country? This is a man who, a few months ago, couldn’t even bring himself to say that we were a Christian nation, and suddenly he’s turned us into a Muslim country. Perhaps he’s thought this all along, but just didn’t want to say so.

I know it's rude, but what a schmuck!; 6/3/09, 2:58 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: Obama not listening to the CIA isn't significant? Wasn't that Bush's problem?

No, that wasn't Bush's problem. The CIA's pre-war analysis was that Saddam possessed WMDs - Geoge Tenet was so sure he called it a "slam-dunk".; 6/3/09, 3:02 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Just imagine the media doing cartwheels if that idiot Palin made the same comment.; 6/3/09, 3:03 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: Obama's just saying "Don't attack the U.S. because you'll probably end up killing a bunch of Muslims."

If that was really Obama's intention, he's even dumber than I thought. When have Muslim terrorists ever hesitated to kill their fellow Muslims?; 6/3/09, 3:04 PM
KCFleming said...: ""If you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world."

Take my Muslims, ...please.; 6/3/09, 3:06 PM
ricpic said...: This is Zero's coded way of saying to his fellow muslims worldwide, "Yes, since there are so many of US in Amerika our CLAIM on Amerika is absolutely legitimate."

Soon there MUST be a revolt against this impostor or it is a certainty that liberty will be killed.; 6/3/09, 3:08 PM
John said...: "Of course if you're unfortunate enough to live in an apartment house with muslims and out of politeness you say hello to a muslim woman on the elevator next thing you know you're visited by one of her terribly riled up uncles or cousins or nephews or brothers brandishing knives and threatening you with bodily harm."

That is only a problem for Canadians. Americans never bring a knife to a gun fight.; 6/3/09, 3:09 PM
John said...: "Just imagine the media doing cartwheels if that idiot Palin made the same comment."

But Obama is brilliant and errudite. Don't ever forget that.; 6/3/09, 3:10 PM
bearbee said...: Doesn't 9 million out of 1.4 billion Muslims and his budget cut of $100 million out of $3.5 trillion, suggest an inability to process reeelly big numbers?; 6/3/09, 3:11 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Bearbee:

Yes he is a bigtime innumerate. I'd love to see his Math SAT scores.

Dadvocate:

Re "innocent misstatement", I was atempting snark.; 6/3/09, 3:16 PM
traditionalguy said...: If they are over here, then the Christians can simply convert them without facing a death sentence for telling the poor mind controlled and miserable Muslims the Good News.; 6/3/09, 3:21 PM
Henry said...: Let's back up one stop in that interview, shall we?

The president said the United States and other parts of the Western world "have to educate ourselves more effectively on Islam." [my emphasis]

"And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world," Mr. Obama said. "And so there’s got to be a better dialogue and a better understanding between the two peoples."

My emphasis. I don't think that Obama made the point about education that he intended to make.; 6/3/09, 3:42 PM
Henry said...: What the president should have said was:

[The United States and other parts of the Western world] have to educate ourselves more effectively on Islam."

"Take me, for instance..."; 6/3/09, 3:44 PM
Daryl said...: Muslim countries are, to the very last one, shitholes.

Each and every one is thoroughly infested with terrorists.

Each and every one supports some of those terrorists.

Each and every one spreads hateful ideas about non-Muslims.

Each and every one is a member of the OIC, which takes hardline bigoted positions against non-Muslims.

Each and every one of them has a dictatorship or a severely compromised democracy.

Each and every one of them supports Holocaust denial.

Each and every one of them supports Palestinian suicide bombers who attack civilian targets.

Muslim countries are bad. America will NEVER be a shithole like that, no matter how hard Obama pushes us in that direction.; 6/3/09, 3:53 PM
avwh said...: I bet Obama meant we have the largest Muslims - thinking specifically of the NBA and the NFL.
;)

Yes, he is math-challenged (57 states, anyone?), and a dunce about his own country's history - but we knew that, right, or why would he sit and listen to Rev Wright for 20 years?

Off the teleprompter, he's a disaster waiting to happen...; 6/3/09, 4:04 PM
tim maguire said...: Maybe he meant by square miles.; 6/3/09, 4:11 PM
tim maguire said...: Or square kilometers.; 6/3/09, 4:12 PM
AllenS said...: I'd like to see Bark Obama embrace and ask for guidance from our largest in the world, Muslim populaton. I hope he put in place Muslim doctrines dealing with this problem we have in the country about dealing with our homosexual population. Let the Muslim rule on same sex marriage, don't ask don't tell.; 6/3/09, 4:12 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Hoosier's Palin comment wins the thread!; 6/3/09, 4:20 PM
KCFleming said...: "If you actually ignored other countries with Muslims in them completely, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world."; 6/3/09, 4:21 PM
garage mahal said...: Soon there MUST be a revolt against this impostor or it is a certainty that liberty will be killed..

That's kind of vague for such a important directive. Can you be a little more specific?; 6/3/09, 4:29 PM
hdhouse said...: Good Lord, don't you folks know history? Ever read the Treaty of Tripoli????

And that treaty came about under the auspices of our FOUNDING FATHERS.

We are a republic...not a Christian Nation whatever that is. There was no intent whatsoever to establish us (US) as a Christian nation. NONE.

This is a strawdog argument of the right..period.

Last, take a look at the numbers for a change...outside of Africa, the Middle East and SE Asia, we are next and those countries cited are predominantly Islam.

God. You guys.; 6/3/09, 4:30 PM
mccullough said...: Where have you gone, Rev. Wright?; 6/3/09, 4:37 PM
Unknown said...: hdhouse, I'm not here to get into a "Christian nation" vs. "republic" argument. But for goodness' sakes, I have seen the numbers. Just listen to yourself:

Last, take a look at the numbers for a change...outside of Africa, the Middle East and SE Asia, we are next and those countries cited are predominantly Islam.

Restated: take out all of the largest Muslim countries, and we are one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.

Or to put some meat on those bones---we're the largest Muslim country in the world! At least, that is, except Indonesia, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Turkey, Egypt, Nigeria, Iran, Algeria, Morocco, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iraq, Uzbekistan, Ethiopia, Russia, Yemen, China, Syria, Malaysia, Tanzania, Mali, Niger, Senegal, Tunisia, Somalia, Guinea, Azerbaijan, Burkina Faso, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Côte d'Ivoire, Congo, Libya, Jordan, and Chad.

Of course, statistics being unreliable, we might prefer Wikipedia's FIRST table, which would mean we'd also have to remove Philippines, Turkmenistan, France, Mozambique, Kyrgyzstan, Kenya, Sierra Leone, Uganda, Cameroon, Ghana, the West Bank and Gaza, Mauritania, Germany, Thailand, Oman, UAE, Eritrea, Lebanon, Kosovo, Myanmar, and Bosnia and Herzegovina.

But really, that's all. Other than those, we're the largest Muslim country in the world.

We've got what, 3 million Muslims out of a billion or so?; 6/3/09, 4:42 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: The US census data reports there are only 0.6% of Muslims in the country. That would be maybe 2 milion.; 6/3/09, 4:52 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Last, take a look at the numbers for a change...outside of Africa, the Middle East and SE Asia, we are next and those countries cited are predominantly Islam..

Gee hdhouse, just when I think you've reached the top rung of the ladder of stupidity, you still can reach down your ass and find yet another rung.

You have to be on welfare because I can't believe someone as dumb as you can actually earn a paycheck.; 6/3/09, 4:54 PM
AllenS said...: Unfortunately, hdhouse is probably making a lot of money. He is, however, just one of a couple of turds floating in the punchbowl of opinions.; 6/3/09, 4:57 PM
The Dude said...: hdhouse wrote "God. You guys."

Not sure what that is supposed to mean, but I think he thinks we are God.

We know you aren't, hd.; 6/3/09, 5:10 PM
former law student said...: When have Muslim terrorists ever hesitated to kill their fellow Muslims?

Muslims are sentimental about Muslims they don't know. But experience from places like India, Pakistan, and the Philippines suggests that Muslims would rather kill non-Muslims than other Muslims.; 6/3/09, 5:12 PM
KCFleming said...: But Muslims will do in a pinch.; 6/3/09, 5:16 PM
JAL said...: @ 2:57 "that audience will never consider the US a "Muslim country"

Yet.; 6/3/09, 5:17 PM
JAL said...: I meant as in "Not yet."; 6/3/09, 5:20 PM
Fen said...: Maybe we are if you count Obama's 57 states.; 6/3/09, 5:20 PM
Fen said...: What an idiot.; 6/3/09, 5:20 PM
Jeremy said...: Hoosier Daddy said..."Actually all stats I ever saw said something around 3 million which would be the population of Dubai."

American Muslim Population / 2008

United States 2.11%
6,420,000

And, as to being "38th in terms of absolute numbers," there are 195 countries in the world, putting us in the top 20 percentile.

We have more Muslims than:

Kyrgyzstan
Qatar
Lebanon
Kuwait
Jordan
Cyprus
Bahrain
UAE; 6/3/09, 5:24 PM
Kirk Parker said...: "The .6% figure comes from the CIA factbook. Wikipedia says 1.5%.

I'm not sure which would be the most reliable. I'd hope the CIA."

Hey, where do you suppose the CIA gets their information?; 6/3/09, 5:26 PM
Jeremy said...: Daryl (Are you one of the Daryls on Newhart?)

Says: "Muslim countries are bad. America will NEVER be a shithole like that, no matter how hard Obama pushes us in that direction."

One out of every people on the planet is a Muslim.

Get used to it.; 6/3/09, 5:28 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Is Obama saying that Islam is a man made disaster?; 6/3/09, 5:43 PM
Chase said...: Jeremy said:
One out of every people on the planet is a Muslim.
`

Really?

All I wish is that Althouse had the balls to admit she's wrong in this post. 2 million plus in the US isn't shit compared to Indonesia and other countries. The Obama quote is bullshit.

And no, Althouse, Obama isn't consistent on religion - he makes a speech about "I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community. I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother" and then disowns Wright shortly after (watch out anyone who thinks they're in tight with the Obama's)- just for one example of many.

Althouse, why are you starting to become an Obama boot-licker?; 6/3/09, 5:45 PM
Diamondhead said...: "One out of every people on the planet is a Muslim."

That's quite a statement.

One out of every Jeremy is a moron.; 6/3/09, 5:48 PM
MayBee said...: I think we are one of the largest Muslim countries in the Muslim World. It's an alternative world and it has its own number system.; 6/3/09, 5:55 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Jeremy, second time, any references to back up your claim there are 6 million Muslims in the US?

For what it's worth, we have 1.8 to 3 million Muslims per Wiki. So that's half the number you pulled out of your ass.

One out of every people on the planet is a Muslim.

Get used to it..

Actually pal it's you and your liberal ilk that better get used to it. Muslims are the most intolerant of folks and don't take kindly to gays, abortion or making fun of their prophet. They also don't like the ladies showin too much ankle, driving or otherwise doing anything but being barefoot and pregnant.

Yes, I'm sure you libtards would get along fabulously with them.; 6/3/09, 6:02 PM
Daryl said...: I've known too many Muslims to have any other views about them.

Tolerance is easy when you don't have to live in proximity to the bastards.; 6/3/09, 6:15 PM
EnigmatiCore said...: "One out of every Jeremy is a moron"

Untrue. But this one is.; 6/3/09, 6:49 PM
dbp said...: The United States contains muslims: Check.

The United States is the 3rd largest country by land area: Check.

Ergo: We are the 3rd largest muslim country, right after Russia and Canada.

I'm sure that is what President Obama meant. Isn't it obvious?; 6/3/09, 6:53 PM
Unknown said...: Jeremy, second time, any references to back up your claim there are 6 million Muslims in the US?

Actually, CAIR uses that number.; 6/3/09, 7:28 PM
Unknown said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 6/3/09, 7:38 PM
Unknown said...: And, as to being "38th in terms of absolute numbers," there are 195 countries in the world, putting us in the top 20 percentile.

Yes, right around the 20th percentile. Now, how well do you think, say, a 20th percentile tennis player would fare against Roger Federer? Would anyone consider a 20th percentile player one of the greatest players in the world?

Now consider the way the sentence was constructed. It's posed as a hypothetical, a lot like "If California was a country it would have the tenth largest economy in the world." ... "If the U.S. Muslim population were a country it would be one of the largest in the world."

That's how I took it, which is why the fact that he invoked the term "Muslim country" in itself didn't bother me. But if that's the interpretation then it's even more off-kilter. How many countries consider themselves "Muslim countries?" Well, there are 56 members of the OIC. We'd be in the bottom 40% of that pack, I suspect.; 6/3/09, 7:52 PM
Adam2Smith said...: Lawyers can't count. Althouse and Obama are both lawyers, ergo...; 6/3/09, 8:29 PM
holdfast said...: "Obama not listening to the CIA isn't significant? Wasn't that Bush's problem?"

I thought the problem was that he listened to Clinton-appointee Director George slam-dunk Tenet?; 6/3/09, 8:41 PM
holdfast said...: "Only Turkey has managed to separate the government from religion, and they don't do it to anywhere near the extent that Western nations do."

Actually, they don't do it much any more.; 6/3/09, 8:43 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: So is it really really wrong of me to think that the first part of the headline is the beginning of a really bad Henny Youngman joke.

If you took the number of Muslim Americans and...punch line ////rim shot.; 6/3/09, 9:06 PM
Sal said...: Jeremy was right: We (the USA) are in the top 20 percent. In other words, while there may indeed be 37 or so other countries with larger Muslim populations, we're still near the top -- with roughly 80 percent of the world's countries having smaller Muslim populations. Obama's statement is therefore factually accurate. But more importantly, it was simply good politics for him to play up the Muslim angle. This is obvious. Politics 101.; 6/3/09, 9:18 PM
Skyler said...: remarking on Turkey's secular government: Actually, they don't do it much any more.

And this is based on . . . . ?

They wax and wane, but there is still a very strong secular tradition in Turkey, such as it is. Their military has a tendency to step in and right things and then step out of the way again.; 6/3/09, 9:25 PM
Diamondhead said...: Sal, it may help him appeal to a few people on the apology tour, but don't take it for granted that it's good politics here.; 6/3/09, 9:39 PM
Unknown said...: I doubt it's good politics there either. How many actual Muslim countries think that the United States is even remotely close to being "one of them"?; 6/3/09, 9:48 PM
1775OGG said...: Obama is quite wrong in his stating the makeup and character of this country. However, his effectiveness as a speaker, IMHO, is that his voice is quite good and has a pleasing timbre to it. Plus, his parlor ticket of halting on selected words emphasizes those words, even if his style seems strange.

Obama is not an effective extemporaneous speaker nor is he able to connect facts in a logical way without his script; again IMHO.

But, with media types all atwitter and infected with a love for his being, the myth of his speaking ability has outdistanced the facts of his pedestrian speeches. Plus, Obama often fails to understand the difference between fact and hope.

Having said the above, Obama has succeeded in changing this country and his supporters might find that fact not really to their liking after all.

For me, the question is whether Obama will try to subvert the 2010 elections or more likely, the 2012 elections? He truly is like a President Warrick.; 6/3/09, 10:01 PM
Hoosier Daddy said...: Jeremy was right: We (the USA) are in the top 20 percent. In other words, while there may indeed be 37 or so other countries with larger Muslim populations, we're still near the top .

Methinks Jeremy has a new sockpuppet.

We have 3 million Muslims out of what, 1.5 billion on the planet? Obama's math needs work.; 6/3/09, 10:12 PM
Jeremy said...: Hoosier Daddy said..."We have 3 million Muslims out of what, 1.5 billion on the planet? Obama's math needs work."

I never said anything of the kind, dumbfuck.

Being in the top 20% of "countries" as to population isn't the same as being in the top 20% in overall world population.

Get back to that corn, Dude.; 6/3/09, 10:34 PM
Jeremy said...: mcg said..."Now, how well do you think, say, a 20th percentile tennis player would fare against Roger Federer? Would anyone consider a 20th percentile player one of the greatest players in the world?"

What the fuck does any of that drivel have to do with Obama's comment being correct?

Even you can do better than that.; 6/3/09, 10:38 PM
Jeremy said...: Daryl said..."I've known too many Muslims to have any other views about them. Tolerance is easy when you don't have to live in proximity to the bastards."

Gee, thanks for the tip, Daryl.

Is it creepy being a racist asshole?; 6/3/09, 10:40 PM
Unknown said...: What the fuck does any of that drivel have to do with Obama's comment being correct?

The point, dipweed, is that 20 points down from the top means you don't use superlatives like "largest" anymore. If you ask any reasonable soul if Jordan is one of the largest Muslim countries around, the answer would rightly be "of course not!" Well, if Jordan ain't, neither is the U.S.

It was just a stupid off-the-cuff remark and that's that.

BTW, the Wiki article has been updated again and now uses a low-end estimate of 0.8%, putting the U.S. at 52nd. I'm not buying that one either.; 6/3/09, 10:50 PM
Skyler said...: Um, Jeremy, Muslim isn't a race.; 6/3/09, 10:51 PM
Steven said...: Hilarious.

You know, guys, there's no longer any need to engage HDHouse or Jeremy ever again. Whatever they say, just answer, "Sure, and America is one of the largest Muslim countries in the world."

I mean, they've proven their total intellectual whoredom in the name of partisanship today. If Obama claimed George Washington was a woman, we know those two would say something like "Well, he had at least one X chromosome anyway, and he never fathered any kids, so maybe he really was a disguised woman."; 6/3/09, 11:07 PM
Unknown said...: In fact, it turns out all the Muslims Daryl knows are Vietnamese.; 6/3/09, 11:07 PM
Skyler said...: But Daryl is incorrect. I know Azerbaijan is a Muslim country, but a finer, more polite group of people I've never met. They fought with me in Iraq for my tour there and are still there. They don't like the jihad brand of Islam and they are very tolerant, decent people. Granted, I only saw a small segment of them, mostly conscripts, but they want very much to be aligned with the United States. They certainly have a long way to go in terms of growing into a country that respects individual rights, but they are not at all typical of other Muslim countries. I wish them well.; 6/3/09, 11:12 PM
Jeremy said...: Skyler said..."Um, Jeremy, Muslim isn't a race."

I suggest you read a few of Daryl's comments.

He's a racist asshole.

And he's a bigoted asshole.

But thanks for defending the guy, it tells me where you stand.; 6/3/09, 11:15 PM
Jeremy said...: Steven - When have you ever engaged anyone with whom you disagree?

And why would I care what another right wing fool thinks?; 6/3/09, 11:17 PM
Jeremy said...: mcg, how is it Obama, being the fool you say he is, is doing so much better in life than YOU?

What makes you think you know so much more than he does?

What have you ever accomplished in life that even remotely compares?

All you ever do is bitch and whine about anything he says or does, yet 65% of America approves of his performance, abilities and are confident he'll help America.

What makes you such a cynic?; 6/3/09, 11:20 PM
Ralph L said...: Do foreign Muslims recognize The Nation of Islam as fellow Muslims? If you subtract them from our total, how many Muslims do we have left?; 6/3/09, 11:20 PM
Chase said...: Jeremy, Jeremy, Jeremy . . .
`

Start here -

LOS ANGELES TIMES:

Poll: 4+ months into Obama, Republicans looking better to Americans

Americans now are thinking more favorably of Bush, Cheney, McCain, Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee and someone named Rush Limbaugh. Their favorable numbers are all up, some significantly.

Their unfavorable ratings have all dropped, some significantly.; 6/3/09, 11:21 PM
Jeremy said...: Skyler - I apologize. I thought you were defending this Daryl character.; 6/3/09, 11:22 PM
Jeremy said...: Chase, you're using a wingnut's "blog" that says Obama is only popular because he's taking advantage of Biden's coattails?

A man who was Laura Bush's press secretary?

What Karl Rove not available?

Get real.; 6/3/09, 11:27 PM
Jen said...: "At least not JUST [a Christian Nation]"

". . .and non-believers."

Hooray! Hooray! Hooray!; 6/3/09, 11:28 PM
Jeremy said...: 6/3/2009

CNN Poll

Rush Limbaugh 30% favorable
Newt 36% favorable
Cheney 37% favorable; 6/3/09, 11:45 PM
Jen said...: Jeremy:
Can you even believe that non-theists were even mentioned in a political speech? In this country??; 6/3/09, 11:48 PM
Jeremy said...: Jen - Americans have a very unusual view of religion, right and wrong, and especially Christian values.

Most here favor the death penalty are against abortion, and think a doctor being murdered in church, in front of his family and friends was a good thing.

After eight years of the Bush "Crusade" it's nice to just hear a viewpoint expressed that doesn't sound like it was written by Pat Robertson or James Dobson.

Amen.; 6/4/09, 12:06 AM
Jen said...: Amen brother.; 6/4/09, 12:13 AM
Jen said...: Friends (Jeremy):

FYI

There is a lovely Sterling 2004 Napa Cab available right now that I highly recommend. You should be able to find it for about 20.

Nacht.

j; 6/4/09, 12:29 AM
Chase said...: Jeremy, Can you read, brother?
`

LOS ANGELES TIMES.

AND it ain't no right winger, brother.

You're such a fucking loser if you have to call a left wing blogger for a left wing newspaper "right wing" because you don't like the truth it exposes.
What an ass!; 6/4/09, 12:31 AM
Chase said...: Oh, Jeremy, when you're done licking Jen's asshole, look over your shoulder. Dems are gonna lose big time in next year's mid-terms.

Bookmark it. I look forward to shoving it in your jen-smegma covered face.; 6/4/09, 12:33 AM
Fred4Pres said...: Jeremy said: "Most here favor the death penalty are against abortion, and think a doctor being murdered in church, in front of his family and friends was a good thing."

Jeremy--that comment you made Tiller's murder a flat out lie. And for you to spread such mistruths shows you are a very dishonest and despicable person. The vast majority of conservatives (and by vast I mean 99.99%) oppose the death of Dr. Tiller. Killing the him in that manner was terrorism and murder. Virtually all pro life groups denounced his murder. Virtually all conservative pundits did too.

Now I also know that a lot of pro life people are against the death penalty. The Catholic Chuch is against the death penalty too. Personally I question its effectiveness as a deterent, and believe it is extremely expensive and difficult to implement, but I would leave it for extreme circumstances.

And there is a difference between executing a convicted criminal after trial and appeal and terminating a fetus for any reason whatsoever.

And I am sure you equally denounced the Muslim convert who murdered William Long. Let me know where you did that.; 6/4/09, 12:36 AM
Unknown said...: mcg, how is it Obama, being the fool you say he is, is doing so much better in life than YOU?

I didn't say he was a fool---don't put words in my mouth. I said he made a stupid comment. Whether you agree in this instance or not, you're not such a blind Obama groupie to believe he never does that, are you?

And secondly, I frankly don't believe he is doing that much better in life than I am. I've made out just fine. I don't have a Caesar/God complex about the presidency. The office is occupied by a human being (as if that wasn't made clear enough in the last 8 years).

What makes you think you know so much more than he does?

See previous comment about putting words in my mouth.

What have you ever accomplished in life that even remotely compares?

Other than co-found a company that cracked a billion dollars in market cap before it was acquired? Other than earn a Ph.D. from the top school in the nation for my major? Other than find a woman who was willing to put up with me for the rest of my life? Other than win my high school spelling bee? Not much.

I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night though.

What makes you such a cynic?

Life.; 6/4/09, 12:48 AM
Steven said...: Steven - When have you ever engaged anyone with whom you disagree?

I think it's cute that you think you have enough intellectual or moral standing left that you could make a demand that I defend myself.

I think it's even cuter that you think the charge that someone has gone his entire life without seriously engaging anyone with whom he disagrees is plausible enough to even need an answer.

And why would I care what another right wing fool thinks?

You sure seem to spend an awful lot of time arguing with "right wing fools" to now turn around and disclaim any interest in what they think.

As to why you so obviously care, I'm guessing self-esteem issues. However, since I am not a professional psychologist and neither have I had sufficient exposure to you in other contexts to get a full picture of your personality, I wouldn't want to venture a definite opinion.; 6/4/09, 12:50 AM
Unknown said...: Most here... think a doctor being murdered in church, in front of his family and friends was a good thing.

Liar.; 6/4/09, 12:51 AM
J said...: He just isn't all that bright.; 6/4/09, 12:58 AM
veni vidi vici said...: "Really, Conrad Black? Don't the prison officials censor his correspondence?"

Ha! The same thought flashed across my mind when I saw his first article there about a week or so ago. Is he even still in the klink, or has he been released yet?; 6/4/09, 1:25 AM
Unknown said...: Well how about that! Wikipedia says he's still incarcerated. Interesting that he is still able to publish.; 6/4/09, 1:36 AM
Anonymous said...: What an relief to know that amongst all the world's nations the US has more Muslims than San Marino and The Vatican. Praise the Lord.

As for what makes mcg such a cynic? I'd say having to deal with the likes of Jeremy & Co.; 6/4/09, 4:11 AM
Unknown said...: Mr President.....I received a crash course in muslim studies on 9/11.; 6/4/09, 6:10 AM
TMink said...: Brothers and sisters, don't feed the troll.

Trey - who will no longer do so either; 6/4/09, 7:16 AM
Anonymous said...: Civil rights for the unborn...

Muslim Demographics on you tube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

Also demographic crash via google.; 6/4/09, 7:44 AM
Henry said...: And, as to being "38th in terms of absolute numbers," there are 195 countries in the world, putting us in the top 20 percentile.

We have more Muslims than:

Iceland!; 6/4/09, 8:42 AM
Jeremy said...: John P said..."Mr President.....I received a crash course in muslim studies on 9/11."

Did the course include Saudis?; 6/4/09, 9:54 AM
Jeremy said...: Trey - Just keep you hands where they spend most of the day, wrapped around your little dick, and disregard about anything I have to say.

How's that sound?; 6/4/09, 9:56 AM
Jeremy said...: Jen - "There is a lovely Sterling 2004 Napa Cab available right now that I highly recommend. You should be able to find it for about 20."

Funny you mention that specific brand. We had a Sterling Pinot Noir recently and is now one of our favorite wines.

I'd recommend it to some here, but unless it has a screw top, most of the local wingnuts get very frustrated.; 6/4/09, 9:59 AM
Unknown said...: Sigh... The true mark of a pathetic troll versus the many strident, angry but respectable partisans we have here. Can't set aside the stupidity even when going off-topic, areas where we're far more likely to have common ground. Pity, that.; 6/4/09, 10:39 AM
Anonymous said...: President Obama can get by with stupid statements like this because the press adores him.

The lack of any checks whatsoever will be the Dems' undoing. They will get sloppy and overreach; they always do, and the benumbed public will finally realize the emperor has no clothes.; 6/4/09, 10:45 AM
Skyler said...: Jeremy, thank you for the apology.

But you should learn to watch your language. Not only are you coarse and vulgar, but you also don't know what words (i.e., "racist") mean.; 6/4/09, 11:37 AM
The Exalted said...: the comments here are shamefully ignorant. his speech is designed to elicit empathy and a sense of shared values, to make them like us more, aka, make you more safe.; 6/4/09, 1:23 PM
Synova said...: I noticed a palm reading/taro place across from the sandwich shop today and I thought about just how many of them there seem to be in Albuquerque and I thought of this post on Althouse and I wondered...

Are we the largest fortune telling country in the world?

I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't have a larger number of earth goddess/energy manipulating/aura reading/ghost speaking/incense burning/card reading people than we've got Muslims.

Undoubtedly a Crystal Nation.; 6/4/09, 3:32 PM
Synova said...: "the comments here are shamefully ignorant. his speech is designed to elicit empathy and a sense of shared values, to make them like us more, aka, make you more safe."

Not even the Dali Lama thinks that's a reasonable expectation.; 6/4/09, 3:37 PM
Synova said...: Also, actually...

What is the assumption that we need to be made "safer" from ordinary Muslims? Are we supposed to assume that we need to be made safer from Islam in general? Are we supposed to assume that all Muslims are terrorists?; 6/4/09, 3:40 PM
Unknown said...: Exalted, are you posting in the right thread? I mean, there is another thread that deals specifically with the speech itself. This one concerns a quote taken from an interview given before the speech.

The speech itself wasn't bad, really, but again that's for the other thread.; 6/4/09, 4:23 PM
bbbeard said...: Jeremy wrote:
mcg, how is it Obama, being the fool you say he is, is doing so much better in life than YOU? ... What makes you think you know so much more than he does?... What have you ever accomplished in life that even remotely compares?... All you ever do is bitch and whine about anything he says or does, yet 65% of America approves of his performance, abilities and are confident he'll help America... What makes you such a cynic?

mcg wrote a fine reply to you, but I thought your post was so vile and presumptuous that it deserved more pushback. The fact that you seem to think Barack Obama is at the pinnacle of human achievement says more about your myopia than about Obama. Obama has shown himself to be of mediocre intelligence -- I would say clearly below average for an Ivy league graduate.

I will only mention my bona fides to preempt your inevitable response, because out of compassion I want to save you embarrassment. My professional specialties are aerospace engineering and nuclear physics. I have three degrees from MIT, including a doctorate in theoretical physics, and in addition to my research in nuclear physics, I am now a consultant helping to design the Ares I launch vehicle, which makes me a rocket scientist as well. I have also done graduate work in economics. So I've known some really bright people, including a number of Nobel laureates, and I work with a bunch of rocket scientists. (Judging by your adoring comments about Mr. Obama, I gather that means I have a measurably more stringent criterion for intelligence than you do.) Two of my airplanes (the F-16 and the F-22) are flying, and my engine (the F119) is going into the F-35. I invented a quantum Monte Carlo technique called the cluster algorithm in continuous euclidean time. In contrast, Obama is a politician with a slim resume who doesn't have the slightest grasp of economics, history, or technology, and who seems to have major conceptual difficulties with numbers and even basic geography. Obama is, quite simply, a fairly dim bulb.

But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Anyone even dimly acquainted with the basic facts of America and world should be able to tell you that the United States is not a Muslim country, and most especially it is not one of the largest Muslim countries. In addition, most elementary school children could tell you that the number of states is less than 57, most high school students could tell you that 100 million is way less than 3.6 trillion, most college freshman could tell you the difference between a bill and a committee, most sophomores could tell you FDR's policy concerning Hitler was not primarily diplomatic, most juniors could tell you that tire pressure gauges will not offset outer continental shelf drilling, and most seniors could tell you not to grow a mustache if you are applying for a job.

65%? You're trying desperately to extrapolate the meaning of the approval rating past its limit. According to Rasmussen, only 37% of Americans think the country is headed in the right direction. Meanwhile, according to a Zogby poll, 57% of Obama voters could not name the political party that has controlled Congress last year. But even the uninformed deserve representation, and they've got their man in the White House, that's for sure.

BBB; 6/4/09, 5:07 PM
bbbeard said...: Ann wrote:
But I'm guessing that the folks who are talking about this new quote are also fond of the statement that America is "a Christian nation."

You might be right that some folks are. However, I am a Buddhist, and with my "outsider's perspective" it seems pretty obvious to me that the United States is a Christian nation. We are also the most tolerant nation on Earth when it comes to religious freedom and I feel quite welcome here. But I see no point in denying the obvious. I'm "fond of" the truth, so I suppose that means I'm fond of that statement.

FWIW, the Pew Forum on Religion conducted a nationwide survey which many people (including the Census Bureau) rely on for recent unbiased estimates of religious affiliation. According to Pew, 0.6% of the adult U.S. population is Muslim. And 0.7% of the population is Buddhist. But I think it would be silly to declare that America is a "Buddhist nation" -- and it is insulting and condescending for Obama to assert that it is.

Is Obama going to head to Kyoto and declare that "America is one of the largest Buddhist nations on the planet"? Don't hold your breath. We're not at war with terrorist Buddhists, and his middle name isn't Hirohito.

BBB; 6/4/09, 5:31 PM