It is one thing for a person born as a man who has been surgically altered to become a woman to be allowed to use the women's bathroom. It is something else entirely to allow a man who has had nothing altered, but simply claims he "identifies" as a woman, to use the women's bathroom.
That is a recipe for embarrassment, fear and even confrontation — the kind of things most legislators would probably say they want to prevent. The New Hampshire House of Representatives, which passed a similar law recently, may find it has been hasty....
[T[he various definitions of transgender are so amorphous and broad. According to one, it is "a general term applied to a variety of individuals, behaviors, and groups involving tendencies that diverge from the normative role (man or woman) commonly, but not always, assigned at birth, as well as the role traditionally held by society."...
In short, it can mean virtually anything that doesn't fit so-called "normative" gender roles....
April 17, 2009
Transgender bathroom rights in New England.
The Act Relative to Gender Based Discrimination and Hate Crimes bill.
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50 comments:
Nope, there's no agenda at all.
Up next: Mao suits, well, Obama suits.
I, for one, welcome our new liberal overlords.
'Bathroom bill' needs more clarity .
minor understatement. It would work out best in the Legislature would try the law out first before inflicting their cutting edge moral and human rights vision on the girls down at the local High School.
A lot of embarrassment is unnecessary. The installation of poissors would fix that in a year or so.
I had a thesaurus program that used coexistent verb and -er noun forms followed by alteration of the noun, to produce ``birds gotta fly'' candidates, like
reporters gotta announce [announce->announcer=reporter]
nigglers gotta quibble [quibble->quibbler=niggler]
and so forth. My favorite was
patricians gotta pee.
I always thought it funny that women stand in line for the ladies' room while there are empty stalls in the men's room. Would this law let them in?
So now that weird pervy kid in highschool can simply walk into the girls locker room and peek into the showers? If challenged he simply has to say he's questioning his gender identity?
And this is a good idea, why?
Trey Parker and Matt Stone are years ahead of New England on this, having covered the topic in '99:
Hermaphrodite Public Service Announcement from the Troma flick "Terror Firmer", starring Lemmie.
Enjoy!
:D
Or middle school...
Society should protect the rights of minorities. But it should do so with care and common sense, to make sure it does not trample the rights of everybody else.Why start now? Common sense and care have never been used in the past? In their never ending drive to protect so called minorities everybody's rights have been continually trampled on; over and over again.
Men hanging out in the Ladies Room.
What could possibly go wrong?
What could possibly go wrong?They'll realize what slobs women are?
But seriously, I thought that *not* passing the Equal Rights Amendment was supposed to have prevented this kind of thing.
I always thought it funny that women stand in line for the ladies' room while there are empty stalls in the men's room. Would this law let them in?There are those of us who will just use the men's room if there is a line for ladies and nobody in the men's. I'm worried about backlash against this bill keeping me out of the men's room. I want potty parity: when everyone waits the same amount of time to pee.
I thought that *not* passing the Equal Rights Amendment was supposed to have prevented this kind of thing.Equality Über Alles.
Alinsky knew how to get it done.
And here we are.
Hi, ladies!
I want potty parity: when everyone waits the same amount of time to pee.
I think potty parity should happen when everyone takes the same amount of time to pee.
class-factotum said...
I always thought it funny that women stand in line for the ladies' room while there are empty stalls in the men's room. Would this law let them in?There are those of us who will just use the men's room if there is a line for ladies and nobody in the men's. I'm worried about backlash against this bill keeping me out of the men's room. I want potty parity: when everyone waits the same amount of time to pee.Part of the problem is women using their restroom time to saunter, chat between stalls. Not taking CLOSE to the same amount of time to do their business as guys. Which obviously affect the TIME women wait to pee. Guys don't saunter or chat unless they are "that sort of guy".
It is incredible to observe the difference in time women spend in a "cozy woman's restroom and a mid-30 Deg unheated and rather smelly camp outhouse. Camping in the Rockies at 7,000 feet with a large group, much wine&beer, and two "rustic doesn't describe them" outhouses.
We guys marvelled as the typical 15 minute "powder my nose" time of our wives and girlfriends were cut down to 2 minutes (3 for one stalwart who confessed to a #2 need).
==============
How Massachusetts intends on enforcing this is problematic. "Naughty bits" inspections prior to stall admittance?
If there were not enough silly things to do to display solidarity with the female gender, the political rebellion leadership had to dream up a third gender called gays. And now comes the turn of a fourth category of gender-switchers. These also demand public acceptance along with the Rights to control everybody else's opinions about propriety.The joke is on the traditional people who have put up with this silliness in hopes that will stop it by surrendering to it.
I have a feeling that a lot of peoples gender identity will depend completely on how hot the last person to enter the washroom looked.
There's gotta be someplace that's hog free!
Bathroom Bill?
Leave Clinton alone!
Can't we just go back to the simple:
XX=woman
XY=man
Sometimes I feel, you know, not-so-fresh.
Some folks just have to go at home.
I am generally very shy about hitting on women and I am a very, very tidy piddler. I always aim so I make no noise and I almost never splash outside the bowl. Hey, I even wipe the johnny both before and after! I always flush and I always put the seat down.
So, if any enterprising lawyer is looking for a test case . . . I’m your man!
P.S. My boomers generally smell pretty good and I never, never hit the backstop. That’s an extra bonus you’ll get from me, free of charge!
(What the hell is up with those backfiring guys, anyway? God, go see a doctor or something. Sheesh!)
Jayne wrote: "XX=woman
XY=man."
well, there are those difficult cases of XXY, XXXY, XXXXY, XO, XYY, XY/XXY and a couple that are even more rare.
But honestly, those problems tend to cause much more than gender dysphoria.
Trey
The obvious solution is to have a state agency designate which sex you are. Simple.
It's quite easy. A form, no pictures. A woman is a person who thinks they are a woman, and visa versa.
If you have problems with forms, there are the bushes in the back of the building.
We in Canada are ahead of the curve here. Judges already are determining who's names get put on the birth certificate.
Derek
I don't know why this needs to be the subject of any law in the first place. Is there a law that prevents me, a man, from entering a women's restroom? I'm guessing not, but regardless of that the reason I don't enter women's restrooms is because of social norms.
I've seen women enter the men's restroom during public events when the women's room line was around the block. And not one man said anything about it. No one called the Bathroom Police or filed a complaint. We just understood that it was necessary because of the situation.
I don't think transgenders' choice in restrooms is something that needs to be legislated--it just needs to be worked out on an ad hoc level by people. Obviously, a feminine looking transgender shouldn't use a male restroom at a NASCAR race, but he might be comfortable doing so at a dance club.
I laugh and roll my eyes when people put quotes around normative. Gender roles and sex are not normal distributions, the are dichotomous in the VAST number of cases.
People who use the quotes are having trouble adapting to reality and are fighting a lost battle.
Trey
You want to know what’s norminativical?
I’ll tell you what’s norminativical!
"THIS" is norminativical!!!
NORM!!!
I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body!
Our nation is going looney.
Just because you're a very expensive and surgical transvestite doesn't change whether you are male or female.
It's one thing to be rude to people who choose to be perverts, or withhold their civil rights, but this lauding and encouraging of perversion is really just too much.
Sounds like we need at least five bathrooms:
M > men who think they are men and dress like men and are okay going to the bathroom with other men.
W > women who think they are women and dress like women and are okay going to the bathroom with other women.
X > women who dress like men and don’t know which of the above bathroom to go to, but are fine with using the same bathroom as others like them.
Y > men who dress like women and don’t know which of the above bathrooms to go to, but are fine with using the same bathroom as others like them.
Z > men who think they are women, and women who think they are men, but dress according to their sex, but aren’t okay with other men. One-at-a-time bathroom.
Oh, and don't forget about:
Diaper decks; handicap-accessible; non-allergenic, fragrance-free urinal cakes, and wait-time "parity."
Screw it. Shut down all the public toilets. Let people void on the sidewalks.
Why be so defaconormative anyway?
Madison Man wrote:
I think potty parity should happen when everyone takes the same amount of time to pee.Agreed. So then we need to first determine which sex takes longer to do its business (i think it's women, but that is merely an average not an absolute, some men with might take as much time or more).
Then we have to either speed up their pee time, through scientific means or through some incentive, or slow down the other sexes pee time, through either scientific means or through some incentive.
Incentives could include tax breaks for being efficient with your time, or tax hikes for being a lollygag.
It's the only fair thing to do.
Why not just have portapotties everywhere? You use whichever one is free. Plus sides: they're easily swapped out when they break. No need for expensive plumbing in a building. Come in decorative colors. Down sides: If someone doesn't like you, they can tip the potty over with you in it. Can't play foot tapping games to find sexual partners.
I've long thought it is absurd that we have sex-segregated bathrooms in public establishments, especially when there is only one toilet per bathroom. Not that the segregation should be illegal. I just think its silly.
I've heard (when this conversation comes up) that women don't want to go to unisex bathrooms because men are slobs and wiz all over the seat.
I want potty parity: when everyone waits the same amount of time to pee. Even if that means a female version of the dreaded "stadium trough"?
Joseph is right that one-toilet bathrooms with locks should be unisex. It's just a sign. However, people want it how people want it, and that ought to be their right.
Secondly, I assumed this was something that was happening in Europe.
Third, the obvious way to defeat this goofy law is civil disobedience. People should walk into the bathroom of the opposite sex saying they are feeling transgendered right now. En masse. In shopping malls and churches and high schools. Especially ones with showers.
And women do take way too long to piss. What the hell are you doing in there?
I dunno.
But now, thanks to the left, I'm gonna find out.
Men hanging out in the Ladies Room.
What could possibly go wrong?
That ship has already sailed, according to this news report from South Bend, Indiana. Avoid Taco Bells at noon on Saturday, is the message here:
The parents of two young girls say their daughters walked into a downtown restaurant bathroom and saw four people having sex. Their parents are so disturbed, they want all parents to be aware.
"They saw two women servicing two men in the restroom," Robert Schumann says. "Eleven years old is still not old enough to learn about such things as that."
"My 11-year-old asked me, 'How come two women were coming out of the bathroom and why were two guys in there?’ Melissa Schumann, the girls’ mother, says. ‘And they were making funny noises.'"
http://www.wndu.com/home/headlines/43135267.html
"Eleven years old is still not old enough to learn about such things as that."Right. No eleven-year-olds know about sex.
But, anyway, wasn't the first mistake here using a bathroom at a Taco Bell? Next to White Castle (or perhaps an airport in Minneapolis), that's the bottom of the barrel.
By the way, I'm thinking about being a transgendered student at the rec center a host of Northeastern colleges this fall.
Jeremy - you heard that? Surely you didn't talk to a woman. Come on - you have got to be kidding. Maybe you read that or something.
Letting people who "identify" as women use the women's bathroom is one of the dumbest geneder-related laws I've encountered.
I don't care what you identify as. You're a guy. You have a Y chromosome and a penis. Have at least one of those things removed and then we'll talk about reclassifying you as something else.
Jason: "I always thought it funny that women stand in line for the ladies' room while there are empty stalls in the men's room. Would this law let them in?"
I saw women take the problem into their own hands, so to speak, at the top of a ski lift at Squaw Valley 30 years ago. Next to the restaurant up there was another building with public toilets. There was no line on the men's side but 25 or 30 women were waiting on the women's side.
As I watched, the line suddenly broke in half and 15 or so women marched into the men's room. I followed them in to see what were their intentions. It was pretty much what you might expect. The women were waiting for the stalls in a line just behind the men using the urinals.
No one was embarrassed or uptight. Most everyone was in their twenties or early thirties. The men didn't care. The women weren't making some kind of political statement. They just needed to pee.
It was a simple do-it-yourself-solution to a problem that if the government was involved would have taken 10 years, cost 30 million bucks and resulted in a lot of people being cited for unlawful entry or indecent exposure.
Hey, it's a junk test. Ya got the junk that matches the bathroom? You go to that bathroom.
Geez - When I have to use a public bathroom, I just either take a piss or take a dump. I don't really pay attention to the sex of the other patrons. And if a woman was in the men's room, i would just assume that the women's room had a long line. And if there was a woman dressed like a man in the men's room - well who cares.
For a woman this has to be even more of a non-issue, you all use stalls. How the hell do you even know the sex of the person in the stall next to you????
TMink (Trey) @ 10:06:
well, there are those difficult cases of XXY, XXXY, XXXXY, XO, XYY, XY/XXY and a couple that are even more rare.Point of order: X0 most commonly pertains to Turner syndrome. While they may have varying degrees or a complete lack of secondary sexual characteristics, they are indeed females. I have a family member with this, and all she needed was hormones (birth control pills) to gain those traits (breasts, periods, etc). Yes, there are other problems (again, extremely variable), but absolutely no gender dysphoria on her part. She will never be able to conceive; however, she will be able to carry and deliver a baby with the help of an egg donor.
Just FYI...
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