Not sure he quite sees the time line.... but... thanks for noticing.
ADDED: "Ten days of emailing ... and she was ready." I'm getting a little of that oh-those-heterosexuals-and-their-frivolous-marrying vibe.
AND: Here's the text of the email I sent to Andrew Sullivan:
Andrew, I don't think you've understood the time line here. And why link to the nasty Pandagon on this one? Your post is really disrespectful to me. If you'd watched the Bloggingheads you linked to, you'd know that my fiancé is someone who has interacted with me in writing on my blog for more than 4 years. We decided to meet in person after an exchange of email in December. We met in January and then, after a some additional email, decided to meet again in mid-February, and then we fell in love. We decided to get married after 2 more weekends and a 10-day spring break.
Why is this something that you choose to mock? Is there something ridiculous about a blogger coming to love someone who she first knew through writing in the comments and developed an affection for over a period of years? Or is it just that we decided to marry within 2 months of meeting each other in person? My parents met in the Army and got married 2 weeks later and loved each other until they died many decades later. I'd really like to know what part of my experience deserves "OMFG."
AND: Sullivan posts the time line part of the email I sent him and says:
I did watch [Bloggingheads], but got a little confused with the various timelines (I'm not much clearer now). And I'm all in favor of the right of straight bloggers to marry their straight commenters. It's a civil right. And more than I am currently allowed after living with my husband for almost five years.This isn't about legal rights. This is about how individuals treat each other, and I want to know why you disrespected me. Explain why you linked to Pandagon's scurrilous OMFG, which, as you know, means "Oh, my fucking God." Is that the way you mean to speak to me? Is that the way you talk about God?
For the record, I support marriage rights for gay people. Click my "same-sex marriage" tag below to see the profuse evidence of this.
Posts
163 comments:
He quotes Pandagon?!!!
His mind is really gone. I guess the Atlantic has finally succumbed and is keeping Andy on to placate the Special Olympics crowd. Poor Atlantic readers.
I'm surprised it was not accompanied by a Sully diatribe about how selfish it was for Ann to get engaged while she is not working 24/7 to give Sully and other barebackers a reason to quit and enjoy the bliss of legal gay marriage.
Oh, and Meade is a pretty good-looking guy, from his profile photo, at least. Sort of like a middle-aged James Taylor with the same slightly scruffy dissolute look, but with hair.
It's very sad. Mr. Sullivan used to be an interesting writer.
But the years of HIV infection have taken a toll on his body and his brain. He can beef up with testosterone and steroids, but there's no drug to cure AIDS-related dementia.
Sullivan won't release his medical records because they show that what I'm saying is true. That's the only reason anyone would refuse to release their medical records.
Ten days of emailing ... and she was ready.
See how they lie about you?
And you're just a blogger.
Now just imagine how the over 90% Liberal media blasting away in people's living rooms 24/7 lie about something they really hate-
Like oh say-
the US military.
I had never read the 2005 posts--came to this blog well after that.
I'm struck by thus quote from Althouse in the comments to RLC's blog: "I'm using blogging to prolong the useful life of my mind and body."
Seems to have worked out pretty well, if that's the motivation.
Don't forget the "tongue cleansing", professor...
Oh my. Sullivan writes something that you, the commenters, find objectionable, and your instinct is to bring up his HIV status?
You may not be anti-Semitic, but you're surely a nasty bunch.
Daryl: You are being a complete asshole. How the hell do you know what effect disease may have on Andrew Sullivan? Why do you think you have any right to speculate (dissemble?) about something so awful? And if you are right, why do you sound so gleeful? Same to you Peter and Randy.
Or am I missing something here? Is there something about Sullivan that makes him fair game for ugly attacks?
I think a lot of what Sullivan writes is pretty ridiculous, but why the personal venom? Does it make you feel superior to him? Do you need to feel superior to him? If so, why?
I've emailed him and asked him why he thinks mockery is appropriate.
If he comes here and reads some of these comments.... I can hardly expect a genial response.
Note to Andrew: I don't delete comments for viewpoint.
Sullivan won't release his medical records because they show that what I'm saying is true. That's the only reason anyone would refuse to release their medical records.
I am no big fan of Randy Andy and read him for amusement purposes only. OTOH, unless and until he runs for high public office, his medical records are private and he has that right to privacy, the same as you do. Now, to be fair, let us see your medical records.
And as to you, TS, where do you get the right to criticize when you write this on your blog:
For the price of a ticket starting at a mere $2500 (with the website encouragingly noting that "rates are being lowered", always a sign of healthy sales) you can go on the National Review cruise by Holland America. Yes, for less than $5000 you can grab a berth on the world's biggest floating sausage party. And once you're out in International Waters, well...wink wink! Oh, the sights you'll see.
Watch Karl Rove take a dip in the pool, layer upon layer of oily, crenulated back fat rippling in the Mediterranean breeze. Watch Yosemite Sam John Bolton chat idly with guests as he leans against the rails and wonder how you might effect escape if you pushed him overboard. Watch K-Lo be mistaken for prey and harpooned by a careless team of Norwegian whalers. Watch Rich Lowry awkwardly make love to the hot tub water jets as nearby guests talk about Palin 2012. Watch a sodden Jonah Goldberg hit on Tony Blankley in the mistaken belief that he is K-Lo while Blankely does nothing to disabuse him of the notion. Stumble into the wrong cabin at 4:30 AM to find Dick Morris and Cal Thomas locked in an enthusiastic but logistically complicated 69.
Beyond asshole.
"...something they really hate-
Like oh say-
the US military."
A rather sweeping and unsubstantiable generalization, no?
David, I have to agree with you on this one. Bringing up Sullivan's HIV status is not a serious and or productive argument.
I gave up on Sullivan when he went completely off the deep end and started criticizing Bush and other Republicans.
"Or am I missing something here? Is there something about Sullivan that makes him fair game for ugly attacks?"
Personally I don't think it is right to attack someone’s HIV status and to speculate that they have sunk into dementia. But Sullivan has lost any claim to tolerance or consideration by continual and vile attacks on Sarah Palins children. The people who are so vigorously protesting the current mess with Biden's daughter were gleefully complicit in attacking and demonizing these children and their troubles and medical status. His continual obsession with her vagina and personal medical history has forfeited any sympathy he might have from decent people everywhere. What goes around comes around.
I think I understand. You see, Sullivan is an asshole who just wants to shit all over everything. That's why David has to be such a dick. Because only dicks can fuck assholes.
Correction, should have said "Daryl" not "David" above.
The point is:
Or am I missing something here? Is there something about Sullivan that makes him fair game for ugly attacks?
Yes, Sullivan's penchant for ugly attacks makes him fair game for ugly attacks.
Another person who can't just up and wish you and Meade every happiness.
Are people so bitter on the East Coast?
I thought it was sarcastically doing to Sully what he did to Palin. I found it rather humorous.
I honestly don't know why our host even bothers with him. He reverted to writing like a 15-year old girl years ago.
I'll wonder yet again. Why does anyone read the writings of that man?
The internet is a place for Andrew to meet tops whose loads Andrew can milk (bareback style!) with his power glutes. It is not a place for discreet chatting over the course of years followed by meetings in person and, eventually, marriage. A little heterosexualist of you, don't you think?
MM:
East coast? Please don't lump us in with what I guess is a very unhappy Manhattan elitist like Sullivan.
Sullivan is a piece of human garbage. I can think of no verbal attack on him that could be interpreted as uncivil.
I've emailed him and asked him why he thinks mockery is appropriate.
And he's tossed up a snarky post with an edited portion of your email saying he still doesn't understand the timeline. From what I can tell he's upset that you can get married and he cannot, or not as a gay man anyway.
I haven't said congratulations yet, so congrats professor Althouse and Meade.
You can't get Sully on his manners or other stupidity. If you want to do something about him, catch him lying or making misleading statements, and publicize those. And, those don't have to be current, as long as he hasn't issued corrections for past false/misleading statements. I'd imagine his "strange lies" series is rife with errors.
Last I checked, his entries have trackback; I was able to take advantage of that a year or two ago but a more recent attempt to get it to accept a trackback failed.
It would be much better if commenters here were more civil. Concluding Andy has forfieted civility shouldn't give excuse for us doing the same. Just reread TS's blog (thanks David). Is that the level of discourse we want here? We're supposed to be better than them.
I'd really like to know what part of my experience deserves "OMFG."
Let’s see:
You are beautiful and do not try to hide it.
You are happy.
You are intelligent versus just merely educated.
You are a critical thinker.
You write well.
You have a loyal following of people with diverse- some even perverse- points of view. That makes you popular.
You are getting married and revel in the fact.
You are the embodiment of all Sully wishes he were or had. He is insanely jealous.
Why sink to the level of snarking about Sullivan's HIV status? Just quote some of the inane writing on his blog and that's devastating enough. His ravings about Trig Palin, for starters.
On the other hand, Andy compared Gov. Palin to Vicky Pollard last week. What can I say?
Wait I get why Andy is really angry-
He thought you were a celibate lesbian-the two kids were just because you lacked dedication.
Meade has burst his bubble.
Heh.
Ironically, these (Sully/Pandagon) are the people who insist that Republicans and conservatives are not merely wrong (ie. have misguided political/economic/philisphical views), but rather, are mean evil people.
Then they publicly make fun of a decent human being getting married.
Are people so bitter on the East Coast?
Not me.
TS -- That's a pretty creative use of the word "you."
David -- Well umpired.
Envy.
You can get married. He can't (and never will if we can just get all the good amendments and propositions passed).
AJ: I was wondering as I wrote that -- where is Pandagon? Also on the east coast? I admit that All A are B does not mean All B are A, which my previous post suggests. My apologies.
Andrew says:
"I'm all in favor of the right of straight bloggers to marry their straight commenters. It's a civil right. And more than I am currently allowed after living with my husband for almost five years."
So, it is not enough that Althouse is(if I am not mistaken)in favor of gay marriage. It must be legal everywhere or all heterosexual marriages shall be mocked mercilessly.
One can understand why Sullivan is taken a lot less seriously now than he was a couple of years ago.
You definitely have more class than I, dear Prof. However, please allow me to be shorter, less eloquent, but more concise.
Dear Andrew:
Fuck you.
Sincerely,
@john, I think you are correct. There is no reason to diminish this blog by adding vile comments.
My daughter has type 1 diabetes which is incurable, mostly manageable, but sometimes fatal. Alot like what Andrew has right now.
The thought that someone could ridicule her medical condition everytime they disagreed with her is sickening to me.
I think this is a case where Ann could delete comments for content and it would be the equivalent of getting rid of some ugly graffiti.
I say this as one who visits this blog frequently and thinks highly of the owner and most commenters.
Sullivan provides conservatives with lots of ammunition in his daily musings. Leave his HIV out of this.
Professor, I suspect it's because you positively glowed on that BloggingheadsTV episode where you announced your engagement, and you looked five to ten years younger than on previous BloggingheadTV episodes.* Why wouldn't he be jealous?
________________
* Or perhaps someone was lighting you with a strawberry pink gel.
Beta Conservative, best wishes to your daughter. That is an ugly and dangerous disease. I keep reading about really promising research on a lot of different fronts, though, and a cure may be just around the corner.
As to Sullivan - given the garbage he wrote about Trigg really being Bristol's baby, and that the only reason Palin wasn't releasing her records was to cover that up - I think he pretty well asked for Daryl's comment.
I don't know why he has to understand a timeline here. What's it to him?
Note to Sullivan: Althouse is lying -- about her deletion policy.
She deletes when *she* is insulted. And, as you now know, she takes a lot of things VERY personally.
I met my wife (of 10 1/2 years!) on the internet (given that this was in the mid-90's, it was spectacularly novel for its time. I had to explain that it was like being "pen pals").
We had spent 2, maybe 3, years just writing back and forth to each other talking about everything... including current relationships. What was the big deal? It's not like we were ever going to meet. She lived all the way over there. I lived all the way over here.
Anyway, time passed and we kept writing and our old relationships fell by the wayside and she came out to visit on a lark. Well, a few months later, I went out to visit her and we got engaged. A year later, we got married after spending around 30ish days in each other's presence.
Well, in telling and retelling of this story, apparently her siblings seem to think that "we met and we got married a month later".
Now, on a practical level, I can say this about marrying someone that you know primarily through the internet: You've got this real reverse Maslow thing going on. You're totally connecting with the most intellectual and, given a backspace, your (self-)idealized self.
But the first time she and I went grocery shopping together, we realized that we didn't know about little things like "what kind of mustard do we buy?" We spent so much time together on the top of Maslow's pyramid, we had to hammer out all of the stuff at the bottom of it.
Luckily, we ended up liking each other anyway.
Best of luck to you!
@Laura, Thanks for the kind words. My comment was made in defense of the integrity and tone of this blog thatI enjoy so thoroughly.
I think Andrew went off the deep end a while ago and hasn't returned. His stuff about Palin (whom I admire) was awful.
My concern here is what those comments say about us (the Althouse community), not about Andrew.
I agree with Beta Conservative in objecting to the personal attacks on Andrew Sullivan. I also agree with Althouse and many others that, as free and full citizens of this great nation, same sex couples deserve all the rights and responsibilities accorded to opposite sex couples.
FWIW, the digital arc that led me to the woman who I love and promise to marry went something like this: Somewhere around September 25, 2001, I read an article on Islamist terrorism in the NYT magazine by a writer who was new to me, Andrew Sullivan. I found that article to be eloquent and persuasive. A web search on his name led me to Andrew's blog which led me to James Lilek's blog, Glenn Reynold's blog, and, finally, Ann Althouse's blog.
Although I have disagreed with some of the positions he's taken since 2001, I will be forever grateful to Andrew Sullivan for what he wrote following September 11 and for being the first in a series of links that led me to my true love, Ann Althouse.
Oh, and Meade is a pretty good-looking guy, from his profile photo, at least. Sort of like a middle-aged James Taylor with the same slightly scruffy dissolute look, but with hair.
I don't get where everybody is seeing Meade.
[A]mba, go to "Leave your comment" and then scroll up a tick.
Then: BEHOLD THAT WHICH IS MEADE!
As an East Coaster but in Queens, not Manhattan, I can only wish Ann and Meade the very greatest happiness. Don't lump the rest of us in with Andrew Sullivan. Even the gay ones like me don't deserve that one.
Meade said...
I agree with Beta Conservative in objecting to the personal attacks on Andrew Sullivan. I also agree with Althouse and many others that, as free and full citizens of this great nation, same sex couples deserve all the rights and responsibilities accorded to opposite sex couples.
FWIW, the digital arc that led me to the woman who I love and promise to marry went something like this: Somewhere around September 25, 2001, I read an article on Islamist terrorism in the NYT magazine by a writer who was new to me, Andrew Sullivan. I found that article to be eloquent and persuasive. A web search on his name led me to Andrew's blog which led me to James Lilek's blog, Glenn Reynold's blog, and, finally, Ann Althouse's blog.
Although I have disagreed with some of the positions he's taken since 2001, I will be forever grateful to Andrew Sullivan for what he wrote following September 11 and for being the first in a series of links that led me to my true love, Ann Althouse.
11:56 AM
That's what I call irony.
I too remember the days when I used to read Andrew's blog, and my finding of this blog follows a very similar path.
Butch it up a little dude. I know Titus is away at P-town but you don't have to pinch his loaves while he is away. Jeeez.
Perhaps someone has mentioned it already...but I think Sullivan is envious.
He doesn't permit comments. Potential relationships are nipped in the bud. How lonely.
"But the years of HIV infection have taken a toll on his body and his brain. He can beef up with testosterone and steroids, but there's no drug to cure AIDS-related dementia."
It has nothing to do with "AIDS-related dementia", asshole. Or the fact that he is a homosexual. It has everything to do with the fact that Sullivan is an unprincipled, spiteful opportunist with the emotional maturity of an 8-year-old.
But just because he's a disgusting misogynist with a puerile interest in the gynecological history of a certain Alaskan governor doesn't make it acceptable for us to denigrate him based on his medical condition too. Diseases are not moral punishment. They're diseases.
Why attribute his malignant personality to your speculative assessment of his medical condition when there are so many real and obvious things about him to mock?
I don't get where everybody is seeing Meade.
My mother said she saw him in Chinatown
But you can't always trust your mother
As long as Andrew doesn't notice this. (Fixed to keep it from looking like part of the conversation about or with Meade.)
FWIW, Andrew was my blogfather. i.e. reading him was what got me started reading blogs and ultimately blogging. I've come to find him hard to read, but I will also be forever grateful.
Althouse, firstly; Meade is indeed a hunk, Huba huba!
It appears to me that the criticism is either of the middle school "mean girl" variety or topic du jour circle jerking.
What's so difficult to understand about one following one's heart? You're both seasoned adults, not love sick teens, why shouldn't you do whatever the hell you wish? I really don't get all this twisty angst. I thought liberalism was in favor of doing one's own thing without societal disapproval?
BTW-My parents also meet during the war, married after three weeks and it lasted over 50 years and I knew that I had the right man after the third date.
"Leave your comment" . . . scroll up a tick? Huh? There's nothing above "Leave your comment" on my screen.
"I thought liberalism was in favor of doing one's own thing without societal disapproval?"
No, it's about doing the correct thing without societal disapproval. Correct according to the left, that is. That's why so many of us who early in life mistook "progressivism" and the left as a natural home for nonconformists, small "l" libertarians and free-thinkers now find ourselves in a political no-man's-land– which is the logical home of non-conformists, isn't it?
What an ass.
People falling madly in love is hard on those who don't/aren't/haven't. Quite a few of us responded to this news with pain --whether generic or specific, wistfulness or jealousy -- among other mixed feelings, such as what Buddhists call "sympathetic joy." The difference is whether you're conscious of that response and ashamed of its unworthiness (but hopefully can forgive and get over it) or whether you let it unconsciously drive you to be vicious.
Palladian, dearest, "you talk sooo pretty!" ;)
That makes three: I may also have found the Althouse blog a few years ago through Daily Dish. Isn't that interesting.
Juris Dentist - It's really efficient to post notes to Sullivan on an Althouse comment thread. I guess you were just testing her to see when she would delete your comment, huh? (PS: Use your secret decoder ring for those confidential messages to Andy.)
Palladian, yes, exactly why I'm also wandering the political wilderness. Many of Althouse's critics and mockers espouse freedom of choice in all things, they are however, disingenuous at best and severely irony challenged.
Sullivan is a case unto himself, one can no longer lump him in with any ideology; he's become what his peeps across the pond call "a misery guts".
Henry, it's Chinatown, man.
@ Beta Conservative said "I think this is a case where Ann could delete comments for content and it would be the equivalent of getting rid of some ugly graffiti."
I was going to say that one reason I don't delete is my great respect for the first commenter, and I think I understood what he was trying to do with his comment (though it was very susceptible to misunderstanding).
Now I see that he has deleted it, so... I'll just tell him thanks and that I understood.
Like others I found this blog by way of Andrew through his Instapundit link.
I actually found Andrew through David Horowitz, who linked to him and Power Line from his Front Page Mag site.
A reminder of how 9-11 changed so much for a time, and also how much of the change has been reversed.
john said...
"Concluding Andy has forfieted civility shouldn't give excuse for us doing the same."
Agree.
We have to smash them. You can't let the crap go unanswered without getting right back in their face just the way they do it. They show no mercy. He shows no mercy. He deserves no mercy.
HULK SMASH!!!!!
Matt Eckert - ooh
Got a rocket in your pocket?
Congratulations, Professor Althouse! I also met my husband through the internet, when I was applying to the college he attended for undergrad. We've been together for almost seven years now. Why wait?
You aren't liberal enough for Andrew Sullivan.
?!
[A]mba, when you click on “POST A COMMENT” you’ll find Meade’s avatar beside his 11:56.
Hope that clears things up.
P.S. I suck.
Meade, above stated his case, "I agree with Beta Conservative in objecting to the personal attacks on Andrew Sullivan. I also agree with Althouse and many others that, as free and full citizens of this great nation, same sex couples deserve all the rights and responsibilities accorded to opposite sex couples."
He's right that all couples should have the same right to civil marriage, and in my opinion, that is no right at all. Civil marriage is a concept whose time has past. It's discriminatory, by nature, to single people.
The religious/cultural significance of the marriage contract should be totally separate from whatever civil/financial/parental responsibility contracts two (or more) people wish to enter.
The bulk of the problem people have with the changing nature of 'marriage' is the confusion of those two very separate concepts of what marriage means. The state should not force people into recognizing marriages they feel don't deserve recognition (based on their traditions and beliefs), just as the state shouldn't prevent people from entering any sort of civil partnership they wish to enter.
Separate the two, and the bulk of the current nonsense dissapates. Rather than picking and choosing what the state allows couples to call a 'marriage', eliminate marriage from civil law, it's the only way to be fair.
Civil partnerships are a civic good, and should be encouraged and protected, calling those partnerships 'marriage' adds a great deal of cultural baggage and weight to the agreement.
Meade at 11:56 -- well said, and classy.
I’m with Beta Conservative, Palladian, and some of the others. There are *plenty* of reasons to criticize Sully; his health and his sexuality should not be among those reasons.
Like many others here, I too came to Althouse from the Daily Dish. I now prefer it here to Sully’s blog, but that has nothing to do with his health or his sexuality and everything to do with his personality and character.
I agree with the comments about no-man’s-land; it can be lonely not being able to fit into either a square of a round peg and that’s why blogs like this are important and why we should conduct ourselves with not only civility, but, equally important, with intellectual incisiveness. We must not stoop to ad hominem arguments; collectively we can do better. If Meade can come up with as classy a reply as he did when Sullivan insulted the love of Meade’s life, then we can take a little more time to frame a strong but civil argument.
Falls under the category of "None of your damn business!"
It's unfortunate that Sullivan didn't have the grace to apologize but class has never been his strong point anyway.
The match goes to Professor Althouse in the first round by a pin. When will these cheapshot artists learn? Let's hope that Sullivan learned some new skills from the bloody beating she administerd.Who will dare to be her next opponent in the internet fighting cage?
This isn't about legal rights. This is about how individuals treat each other, and I want to know why you disrespected me.
Niceness parries and counterattacks.
I can't think of a more fundamentally dishonest person. And I don't know why anyone would bother with his bullshit anymore. His blog is half straw man and half red herring - frustrating when the author hides in a no comment zone, fearful of having his lame non sequiturs picked apart. His glibness, self-contradiction, and lack of basic human decency grew tiresome long before Palin.
In my country we often have angry little boys who lash out at people for no good reason- it's part of being immature. We find that the best way to handle the situation is to lift the little guys by the ears, let them kick and thrash about, and set them down only when they promise to behave like gentlemen.
This little Sullivan guy is making me homesick.
I've been visiting Sullivan's site for years and I notice that he tends to bottle up grudges and then lash out at inappropriate times. One day it's the PUBLISHING INDUSTRY that must DIE! DIE! DIE! because he got a lousy deal on some book he wrote forever ago. Today, he's trying to belittle your romance because...oh who knows. Anyway, congratulations and best wishes.
Sully is a malicious little cock-sucker, ain't he?
And I use "cock-sucker" in the traditional straight context.
"We decided to get married after 2 more weekends and a 10-day spring break."
HAHAHAHAHA. yes honey, that's so different from ten emails.
hey, you're the one who brought up frivolous hetero marriages. i note the only couples getting quickie marriage/divorces are straight. but you keep that marriage sanctity on lock, girl! wonder if this comment will be censored.
"Sully is a malicious little cock-sucker, ain't he?"
i love it when conservatards project. but you go right on ahead and show your hate of women and/or gays, m00se. it's what your sort is proud of.
"chibi, I'm a cocksucker in the gay sense and I think Sullivan is a malicious little cocksucker in both the straight and gay sense. And I think you're a malicious little cocksucker as well. Maybe in both senses.
Andrew's comment on Ann's engagement: "No Comment Possible".
When a couple announce their engagement, one and only one comment is possible: "Congratulations!" (or equivalent.) All civilized people know this.
By not knowing this, Andrew self-identifies with the class of people the rest of us know as "jerks." So there's no need to direct a lot of hyperbolic vituperation at him; with his self-revealing post Andrew has disrespected himself far more than Ann.
Aside to Ann: I'm sure that you did understand my intent. I no more posted that than realized this was neither the time nor the place. I'm really sorry about my part in setting the subsequent tone. As I kept getting error messages when I tried to delete the comment afterward, it was a good reminder to hit "Preview" before "Publish." Apologies for the distraction and many thanks for your compliment.
Quoting Pandagon only proves that Sullivan is a shit stirrer, and does not spare anyone, apparently.
I don't understand the insult in OMFG -- is it worse to meet one's love typing soberly over the Internet, than grinding half-drunk in a club?
I wonder how Sullivan met his partner?
I think they were both at a Pat Robertson rally...
""chibi, I'm a cocksucker in the gay sense and I think Sullivan is a malicious little cocksucker in both the straight and gay sense. And I think you're a malicious little cocksucker as well. Maybe in both senses."
maybe you're a little too sensitive, palladian. that seems to be contagious around here. i mean, i know it's cool to hate someone for being gay in these parts, but you're really reaching when you think your hysterical hostess here is better than the guy calmly pointing out that she can go and have her britney spears marriage when well-established relationships are pissed on by some whiny little busybodies.
Chibi -
Man, dude - you got it all wrong. There was like one person who made a nasty crack about HIV and SUlly's brain. THe rest of us just don't like what Sully *said*. Not what he *is*. We are judging him on his statement.
And if there are any whiny little busybodies around here, you're at the head of that parade...
I'm getting a little of that oh-those-heterosexuals-and-their-frivolous-marrying vibe.
Fuck you, you self-entitled waste of space.
chibi i mean, i know it's cool to hate someone for being gay in these parts,
So now we're anti-Semites and gay bashers, eh?
Fuck off.
Perhaps marriage will mellow the notoriously thin-skinned AA somewhat.
Maybe???
Um, chibi, ee cummings is long dead and his style of writing died with him. You must be one of those Pandagon or Sullivan groupies trolling around for some attention.
As to calling Sullivan a cocksucker- in what ever manner- it is caling a spade a spade.
Yeah, Trooper, I know, if Mort were awake he would say that is racist.
i know it's cool to hate someone for being gay in these parts
It is? Since when? There are many regular readers and commenters here who happen to be gay or lesbian. I can only think of one or two people here who might hate us because we are. Support for gay marriage is not universal here but it is pretty widespread as is support for rescinding DADT.
The thing is, if you lead with your chin, that's where you get hit first.
Everything with Sully is his lifestyle, including his religon. He has problems - particularly since his very public breakup with W - with not being able to control his tendency of swinging wildly between opinions.
If it's not Mormon underwear, then it's Palin's grandchild, or it's "war crimes". He is so wrapped up in defending his stands, that he couldn't take the time to graciously congratulate the Professor and her finacee. He can't be surprised when people find him difficult to take these days. Particularly when he quotes Greenwald at length.
*sheesh*
Honestly - he's turning into a cranky old queen. And that I mean the conventional gay sense...
Sully is just an extraordinarily rude man. Petty and jealous, common. That's all.
How he thinks it bolsters the case for gay marriage to mock marriages is beyond me.
I am in favor of gay marriage, especially if both the chicks are hot looking.
Really, who cares? I have said all along that the life destroying process of divorce should not be limited to heterosexuals. By all means, everyone should have the opportunity to be raked over the coals by a hostile lawyer. To have all that you have worked for rent assunder, your children taken from you, your life turned upside down.
I hope in my lifetime everyone can be subjected to that level of pain and misery. It's only fair, and afterall, isn't fairness what Obamanation is all about?
Eh, FWIW, I "got" the first post, too.
But it's sort of "inside baseball".
And I'm all in favor of the right of straight bloggers to marry their straight commenters.
Well isn't that nice of the fag. It's all about Andrew's dick in Andrew's world. I mean everything in Andrew's life is about his dick. Just pathetic.
I do not support gay marriage. I think it is a contradiction in terms, and I do think the state has an interest in promoting traditional marriage. In fact I think governments have done a disservice to society by making divorce easier to obtain.
I am quite open to civil union legislation and providing sensible protections to gays in committed relationships, but I am against such an institution being folded into state-sanctioned marriage.
I respect that quite a few people disagree with me on this, and if I get outvoted here or there, so be it. But I do not accept the maneuverings in the judiciary to impose gay marriage. It is not a right and they need to butt the hell out of it.
Now. I'm not saying all of this here as an opening to argue with anyone about it. I've done so in the past and I will in the future, but just not today, as I've got other things to do.
The only reason I bring this all up now, then, is to tell you that I truly appreciate that I can have this opinion, here in this blogger community, without being immediately labeled as a homophobe for it---particularly among the gay participants of this forum.
I mean, obviously, the fact that I'm conservative puts me against a number of folks on this forum. And this particular position puts me against even a number of conservatives here, too. And there are exceptions like DTL who probably hope my daughter decides she's gay.
But for the most part, there is a willingness to accept the diversity of disagreement. For that I am grateful.
"Concluding Andy has forfieted civility shouldn't give excuse for us doing the same."
Bullshit. From caveman days to 100 years ago, uncivil snots like Andy would be challenged to a duel or horsewhipped.
We have no obligation to put up with his crass insults, crybaby behavior, snarky backstabbing, or hysterical whining. We should be ostracizing him and teaching him some manners, not enabling him.
Sully just lack a certain magnanimity of spirit. That doesn't make him evil. It just makes him a jerk.
It's too bad that Sullivan cannot marry, and I don't mean that sarcastically. But a better man's would have the internal dialogue:
I'm so happy for her! (Gee, I wish I could get married too.)
Instead, Sully derides the happiness of others, because of an impediment to his own happiness.
A cheap soul.
Andrew Sullivan has made hateful comments about women before. He must not like them or something.
Andrew Sullivan is a fucking jerk.
You've got it all wrong. Andrew was wondering what took you so long. He has falling in love and consummated the relationship 50 times in the interval you describe.
Like many others here (surprising how many!), Sullivan was my post-9/11 gateway to the blogosphere. For that I'll always be grateful. The rhetorical (not political, not ideological, but rhetorical) deterioration of his blog/writing saddens me. It has little to do with any move from 'right to left', but rather somthing like a move from adult to adolescent political critique/commentary. (Like: It's a gravely consequential election, and we should carefully weigh the issues, and we should vote for Obama because, for one thing, Palin faked her pregnancy!!!! And I will not desist until she proves to me, via her private medical records or a DNA test administered by me, that that baby came out of her vagina!!)
Anybody else throw up just a little in the back of their mouth while reading what Meade wrote?
I always wonder if Sullivan's mother knows what he's been doing with his big mouth.
Sullivan's an HIV infected pole smoker? Really? I guess it's not really relevant to his attack on our host but it does put the rest of his writings into context...
Ann,
Congratulations, and may God bless you in your coming marriage.
I know it has been said before but let me also suggest that you politely refuse to ever link to or comment on Sully's antics hereafter.
You know, don't feed the trolls.
I'm surprised Sullivan hasn't suggested that Althouse is Trigs (Sarah Palin's son, born with downs syndrome) real mother now that his previous meme that Sarah Palins daughter was the real mother has been discredited so badly.
Maybe that'll come next week.
If someone is so low as to spread such crap as a serious story, I don't see why Althouse would get outraged or annoyed that Sullivan would engage in scurillous attacks. That's his shtick.
My parents, vaguely knowing each other, having lived in the same small Texas town and gone to the same schools, married each other after a month's courtship (when he returned from WWII). They were married, and faithful, for 28 years (until his untimely death). This is the kind of thing radical gays (in whose company I include Andrew Sullivan) like to denigrate, while claiming victimhood, when the response from the insulted is disgust and outrage against the blatant bigotry.
Sullivan, you are a bigot. There is no excuse for bigotry... not even bigotry.
Anne congratulation on you pending marriage but please shut down this thread it’s poisonous. The only way to deal with crap Andrew Sullivan is slinging is to ignore it. Don’t risk your own happiness by trying to fling mud back or encourage surrogates to do it for you. At a time like this you can afford to be generous. For what it’s worth I am a big fan of both of yours (although like many my affections for Andrew have faded in recent years) but lets all keep in mind that he has issues that most of us will never have to face.
God Bless you and your new love
Steve in Toronto
Anne congratulation on you pending marriage but please shut down this thread it’s poisonous. The only way to deal with crap Andrew Sullivan is slinging is to ignore it. Don’t risk your own happiness by trying to fling mud back or encourage surrogates to do it for you. At a time like this you can afford to be generous. For what it’s worth I am a big fan of both of yours (although like many my affections for Andrew have faded in recent years) but lets all keep in mind that he has issues that most of us will never have to face.
God Bless you and your new love
Steve in Toronto
chibi, the tone and content of your comments would make a little more sense if Althouse opposed same-sex marriage. She supports it.
Back in the day, I read Sullivan and talkingpointsmemo. Now I read neither. Sullivan may have pointed me here at some point; I know he pointed me towards postsecret, which is another blog I still read. I also read dlisted. Althouse, postsecret and dlisted. Those are my 3 main blogs.
As others have mentioned, Sullivan used to be an interesting writer. Then I was confused and finally he just went off the deep end. I honestly don't understand why he would hold the position he does. It isn't as if he is a serious commentator any more.
Having said that, bringing up issues about his health that are nothing but wild guesses as part of the discussion is classless. It really sullies the conversation.
Steve; You're an apologist pussy. Sullivan, irrespective of the hardships he faces as a result of his past behavior, is responsible for his own conduct.
If he acts like an ass, there's no reason that he shouldn't be shown as such...
Oh, Ann! I so admire you for your independent manner!
But you have chosen an unusual way to find a marriage partner. And the hop to marriage is, by usual standards, a little fast with regards to "in the flesh time".
Being unusual opens you up to attack. It's very easy for people who want to attack you to take advantage of your non-conformity to throw dirt in your face.
Isn't it interesting how all your enemies are crawling out of the woodwork now? I bet you didn't even realize that you had this many enemies.
But I like you, Ann. You are my favorite blogger. And I admire you for doing something different. With marriage as with blog!
It's a hard road, tho'...
And if I were Andrew Sullivan, I would be congratulating you on doing something unusual because the last thing we need right now in this country is more god-awful fucking conformity!
Best of luck to you and Meade.
As I said elsewhere, Ann, ignore Sullivan. He has utterly lost his humanity and his generosity of spirit. When Dubya broke his heart by coming out against gay marriage, Sullivan lost his mind, and he hasn't managed a day of sanity, since then.
He's just a mean 14 year old girl. Ignore.
I could not possibly care less with that fool says, but I'm happy for you, Ann. I wish you a long lifetime of happiness in your marriage.
Prof.Althouse,
Congratulations on your upcoming marriage.
I ve always pictured you as a tough feminist who does not take sh*t from the likes of Sullivan. Iam amazed that you are showing him a lot of kindness and understanding.
There does seem to be strong feelings of dislike/hatred from Sullivan towards strong willed women. Clinton and Palin have already been subjected to this.
You must feel lucky that he is merely being derisive of your marriage.
Congratulations to Meade as well - i have seen him posting here but i had no clue that he would end up marrying the Prof !
“I think that we are attracted to what we feel we need." Padma Lakshmi on sexual attraction.
TO: Ann, et al.
RE: Heh
People STILL pay attention to Andrew Sullivan?
Silly people....
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Gay is a one-word oxymoron.]
P.S. Andrew is evidence of the truth to that axiom.....
mcg wrote: "I truly appreciate that I can have this opinion, here in this blogger community, without being immediately labeled as a homophobe for it---particularly among the gay participants of this forum."
I take it you have not met downtownlad.
Trey
Palladian wrote: "It has nothing to do with "AIDS-related dementia", asshole. Or the fact that he is a homosexual. It has everything to do with the fact that Sullivan is an unprincipled, spiteful opportunist with the emotional maturity of an 8-year-old."
Yet another reason why Palladian is one of my heros.
Trey
Congratulations to Ann and Meade on your love match! May your happiness multiply through the years as the envy and hope of all who witness it.
I pity Andrew Sullivan and wish him the peace that seems to elude him. For five years he has sniped at his erstwhile friends from the bitter sidelines, as though the only pleasure left for him is shared misery.
If he didn't create it, he certainly owns his own genre: the Blog in the Manger.
Well, come on, DTL says you're a homophobe if you don't like musical theater.
(MadisonMan, haha Dlisted! I love Dlisted too. In my top 5 most-often-visited blogs.)
Of all people... Really, Sullivan should be ashamed. A man who constantly chafes under societal disapproval of his chosen relationships chooses to make a catty remark about something that's none of his goddamn business. More power to you, Ann.
My brother met Sandy online. They conversed for quite a while and decided to meet. They get along quite well, she's been my sister in law for several years.
Good for you.
I have high regard for people who have met, and are talking to each other before seeing each other.
This is not a comment on anyone's appearance.
One would think that people around here would tire of the Althouse's drama with, well lots of people. I can't wait to see more commentary on how another blogger has a tiny prick. I am not sure which is funnier, AA's drama, the comments about the drama, or the fact that I took the time to look at this.
I take it you have not met downtownlad.
You will note I specifically excepted him.
Well, come on, DTL says you're a homophobe if you don't like musical theater.
I think he calls you a homophobe if you've ever typed anything ever. I think he probably cries, "Homophobe!" at the mirror while he brushes his teeth.
Dick Cavett on Imus today said he was cleaning up and found an old 5th grade report card. ``Dick needs to learn to be more considerate of others.''
He said ``others'' was his teacher's favorite word, along with ``thinking cap.''
TO: jmack
RE: I Suspect....
"I am not sure which is funnier, AA's drama, the comments about the drama, or the fact that I took the time to look at this." -- jmack
....it's option #3.
And the less you say about it, the better off you and the homosexual community will be.
Regards,
Chuck(le)
[Gay is a one-word oxymoron.]
P.S. I think we've found, in jmack, another example....
It’s good to see the tone of this post turning to suggestions to just ignore him. I was reading this, last night, had started to post, but got interrupted. My initial response was in the voice of talking to a close friend. Saying with all the sincerity, clarity and love I could muster, “Generally, folks are more worried about their own shit and really not at all that interested in yours. You’re not at the center of their universe, they are. Anyway, it’s all a bunch of snark. Really. Let it go.”
Anyway, enjoy this instead.
mcg wrote: "You will note I specifically excepted him."
Sorry, I did not note that. My bad. I need to read more carefully when I am posting between patients.
Trey
jmack has a tiny prick.
jmack has a tiny prick.
Was this really Prof. A's comment? I laughed and laughed. He did specifically ask for it.
This is the Andrew Sullivan essay I found enlightening and that ultimately led me to Althouse. He was so much wiser then. What happened?
Not wanting to be thought mean - just busy lately, I haven't even been watching 24 for my mind control treatments - congratulations, Ann and Meade!
Ann, I guess we'll never be - what a relief actually; the timing was bad - but I'm sure Meade's a lucky fellow and will do his best to make you a lucky lady. And unlike me, he's probably interested in your mind and all that jazz.
Sucks to Sullivan, the po-faced pomo homo. Let him eat K-Y.
(NTTAWWT, etc.)
Congratulations!
Mead asked:
This is the Andrew Sullivan essay I found enlightening and that ultimately led me to Althouse. He was so much wiser then. What happened?
Two words. Sleep apnea. A few years ago he discussed his revelation that he had sleep apnea and how, after being hooked up to a "sleep apnea machine" he finally was able to get a great nights sleep.
And almost at exactly the same time he started changing from a resolute and articulate conservative to a conservative of doubt, or in other words, a fringe liberal loon in his writings.
Coincidence? I think not.
Beware of sleep apnea machines, they will turn your brains to mush.
Best wishes
People on the Left, especially the likes of the Pandagon crowd, hate Ann because she's a nice lady blogger who tends to be a conservative without stridency. Sullivan disappoints me for treating Ann's marriage the same way he did with his Trig Truther crap.
Sullivan needs to be horsewhipped, tarred, feathered, and ridden out of town on a rail for this bilge.
Hey Ann, I hope your fiancee is comfortable with your having personal knowledge of my penis size. I also hope that you bring this level of thought to your law classes.
And I stand by what I said about how sad it is have so much space on the internets dedicated to these kinds of adolescent spats.
Hey Ann, I hope that your fiancee is comfortable with your extensive knowledge of my penis size. I can only hope that you bring this level of thought to your law classes.
And I stand by my original comment that it sad to see this much of the internets dedicated to this kind of adolescent spat.
Oh come on, jmack... it's not really that tiny, is it?
Microscopic!
Isn't "extensive" the wrong word?
I haven't read Sullivan in over five years. At one time I read him regularly, and long ago in fact, he turned me on to Michael Oakeshott, whose stuff I still read. Sullivan and I have corresponded by email, although I doubt he remembers me.
Over time his style began to dismay me. I'd heard questions raised about his character and dismissed them in the past, still impressed by the formidable intellect I encountered in his writing. Then little hints of pettiness and weakness seemed to crop up more and more, and I found it hard to ignore them. It wasn't just the obsession with sex and gay rights issues, although that was wearying. It was more the tendency to turn on a dime, claws out, and attack with all the verbal viciousness his fertile literary mind could muster. And his principles seemed more and more malleable, more like tentative positions than dearly held values.
I grew tired of him and finally walked away in disgust. I don't miss him in the least.
I doubt I'm the only one who's traveled the same path with Sullivan.
Ms. Althouse, may your wedding day be joyful, and may that little lonely spot inside, which single people know so well, be banished forever.
Hillary, Palin, Althouse......
Sullivan does not like women(And I'm not commenting on sexuality.) No matter their political views, he will find a way to make them look grasping (Hillary) or stupid (Palin) or front for bigots (Althouse).
Recently, he suggested the Copenhagen fiassco was really Michelle Obama's fault.
If you want to know the degree of integrity AS has, go back and read up on how he treated the paying subcribers to his blog in 2003-05,before and during the time that he sold out to the MSM. I've documented it before, but most of the evidence has been blotted out. Shorter version: after suddenly switching from pro to anti Iraq war, attacking people on both sides with remarkable visciousness, he did a fund raising drive for his blog after the '04 election, then almost immediately "retired" from blogging, then almost immediately resurfaced at Time, for a paycheck.
I get a kick our of people who seem to think that the randon thoughts of such a person are considered worthy of comment by anyone.
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