Althouse: The emotional man.

March 10, 2009

The emotional man.

73 comments:

Anonymous said...: At his age he probably has close to no testosterone left in his body.

Which is worse a man who wears shorts in public or a man who cries like a baby in public?; 3/10/09, 9:58 AM
ricpic said...: This is the fucker who called supply side economics voodoo. He's lived his whole life inside the buttercup and done everything possible to close the gates behind him. A RINO through and through, which is even worse than the open and aboveboard statists on the left. He's suffering? Boo hoo.; 3/10/09, 9:59 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 3/10/09, 10:48 AM
Freeman Hunt said...: The man's wife may be dying! What is wrong with you guys?!; 3/10/09, 10:50 AM
Chennaul said...: Well I had a long story written out how I met George Bush Sr. and I accidently deleted it.

How those that met Barbara Bush thought the world of her and would beat the living crap out of people who thought she should dye her hair. The woman can inspire loyalty like that in under thirty minutes.

But it would have bored most here anyways.

ricpic-

I have always known you to be an ugly commenter that drove people off of other websites but you are the poet here.

Whatever-you are a truly ugly person.; 3/10/09, 10:51 AM
Chennaul said...: You see that Freeman?

ricpic is poison. He's been on many other websites before this one with absolute vileness yet everyone here is fooled by his "poetry".

He'll burn his "friends" here next because they dare to say something positive about something he hates.

Trust me he is full of that-

hate.; 3/10/09, 10:54 AM
Beth said...: What is wrong with you guys?!

Freeman, you're just noticing this?; 3/10/09, 11:01 AM
save_the_rustbelt said...: Old George has a Navy Cross, he can do what he damned well pleases.

ricpic is a slobbering dittohead, the type that are ruining conservatism.; 3/10/09, 11:15 AM
William said...: In the end, we are all poor, forked creatures. This was a man of sufficient sanity, decency, and courage to handily meet and master all of life's challenges. Here at the end he is frail and naked in his vulnerability. All our fine qualities and high offices are just plumes and armor to hide the poor wretched creature within.; 3/10/09, 11:20 AM
Patm said...: GHW Bush is brave enough to be authentic. How rare is that, anymore.

Thanks for posting that, Ann.; 3/10/09, 11:39 AM
SteveR said...: We should all hope to get to the point to be able to cry for our wife (spouse) of 60+ years. Its a profound thing, love like that.; 3/10/09, 11:44 AM
Anonymous said...: My best to Barbara Bush, Bush Sr. and the whole family. I wish them all well.

And of course, jdeeripper and ricpic used the tragic news of Mrs. Bush's tragic medical condition to clearly demonstrate that they truly are sniveling, cowardly assholes - as if further proof were necessary.; 3/10/09, 12:06 PM
Deana said...: William -

Well said.

I recall when President Obama was inaugurated, many commented that it was wonderful to "finally" see a couple in the White House who truly love each other.

I believe that Mr. and Mrs. Obama DO love each other a great deal.

But to suggest that until now, we haven't had Presidents and First Ladies who adored each other is a denial of what we know to be true.

Can anyone say that Mr. and Mrs. George H.W. Bush do not love each other?

What about George and Laura Bush? I think they loved each other deeply.

And the Reagans were legendary in their affection for each other.

And what about the Carters? I think they are the dearest friends.

I wish the entire Bush family the best.; 3/10/09, 12:26 PM
Anonymous said...: Freeman Hunt said...The man's wife may be dying! What is wrong with you guys?!

Same thing that's wrong with all guys. We're not women.

Beth said...What is wrong with you guys?!

Freeman, you're just noticing this?

Beth, she's married to the enemy. Remember that.

F15C said...And of course, jdeeripper and ricpic used the tragic news of Mrs. Bush's tragic medical condition to clearly demonstrate that they truly are sniveling, cowardly assholes - as if further proof were necessary.

I plead guilty to one of the charges only. Not a coward and never sniveled.

Deana said...I recall when President Obama was inaugurated, many commented that it was wonderful to "finally" see a couple in the White House who truly love each other.

I guarantee you Obama's tranny wife has used a strap-on on him. Guarantee it.; 3/10/09, 12:39 PM
chickelit said...: Best wishes for and may God bless the Bush family.; 3/10/09, 12:40 PM
cardeblu said...: Madawaskan, oh, I wouldn't have been bored by it. Too bad it was deleted. I've never met the woman but do think the world of her. She's a strong, classy....broad--a term I use with the utmost respect and in deference to her own "take-no-BS," humorous countenance.

The Bush presidents may have made many mistakes in their terms, but their choices of women in their lives (Barbara, Laura, and even Dr. Rice from a professional standpoint) are not one of them -- far from it.

Wishing Barbara a speedy recovery.; 3/10/09, 12:41 PM
Skyler said...: I had a commanding officer of my squadron get all teary at his change of command ceremony when he left. I liked him a lot, still do, but I thought it was terribly innappropriate to be crying in public. I still do. It's not like the squadron did anything particularly exceptional during his tenure.

I think an exception can be made for when you're 80 something years old and your wife has been dreadfully ill. In that case, it's best to not be in public if you can't control your emotions, but leeway is given if you misjudge your self-control. But just barely. Real men don't cry. Emotions are good things, but not to be displayed.; 3/10/09, 12:41 PM
knox said...: I don't know why this would bother anyone. George W. Bush teared up many times in public, especially when speaking about soldiers who died in battle. And I don't think it ever made him look weak or sniveling: no one doubted that he was a hardass on the war and radical Islam; and it was reassuring that he understood the sacrifice he asked of our military.

I'm no fan of the "sensitive, new age guy" or the "metrosexual" -- I like my men tough and confident. But I don't see GHWB's crying to be any indication of wussiness. He's 100 times the man that, say, Bill Moyers or Jimmy Carter are.

*hugs, Bill*

*hugs, Jimmy*; 3/10/09, 12:53 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Same thing that's wrong with all guys. We're not women.

If you have never experienced a deep enough love for a woman that her nearly dying in the hospital couldn't bring you to tears, I pity you. I really do. Everyone should experience that kind of love for another person at least once.

I don't think he knew that he was going to cry. But he did. There's nothing unmanly about it given the situation. It's not some outburst of emotion that comes from a weak place or an inauthentic place.

Beth, she's married to the enemy. Remember that.

Who is married to the enemy? And who is "the enemy?"; 3/10/09, 1:13 PM
Methadras said...: I don't care what anyone says. A man is entitled to be emotive when his wife may be suffering or dying. Since he is a well known public figure and an ex-president, he's earned it. But strip all of the politics away and you just have a man who loves his wife deeply and has been his partner and for nearly a lifetime. He's not crying for himself, he's crying for her. Leave him be. Blessing to Mrs. Bush and to Mr. Bush.

Madawaskan, I know woman who inspire loyalty like you described. They are still in my life and I'm thankful they are.; 3/10/09, 1:13 PM
garage mahal said...: I guarantee you Obama's tranny wife has used a strap-on on him. Guarantee it.

What's wrong with being a tranny or using a strap-on? You seem to coming at this as a bit of an underground expert, and I just wanted you to know we're here for you if you want to talk.; 3/10/09, 1:20 PM
veni vidi vici said...: Oh Garage, you've done it again; totally derailing my train of thought with a very witty line!; 3/10/09, 1:26 PM
veni vidi vici said...: Madawaskan, bring on the story already. 41 was a super guy, and Barbara was a silver fox in her own way (I'm guessing it's always been about the look in her eyes).

Anyone who hasn't, ought to read 41's memoir/book of letters, etc. from his life, called "All my Best" or something close to that. I read it back in the 90's and it was great. Showcases a guy who could've coasted through - he's classic NE aristocracy, after all - but instead has amassed tons of real accomplishments, starting with the youngest navy pilot thing, ending with his presidency's grand coalition in the Kuwait war and then jumping out of airplanes well into his 70's.

Decent guy, lived a decent life, made a difference, blah blah blah.

And now he's old and frail, and has been confronted with the real possibility of being alone without the partner who's been there through all of it - before the kids and big titled positions, etc.

That's pretty heavy stuff. No wonder he's breaking up - this is one thing that may actually frighten him, which is saying a lot.; 3/10/09, 1:33 PM
Wince said...: I guarantee you Obama's tranny wife has used a strap-on on him. Guarantee it.

Well, there's this.; 3/10/09, 1:36 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Well, there's this.

LOL Wow, that woman really had no idea what she'd said.; 3/10/09, 1:40 PM
Geoff Matthews said...: Real men would cry in GHWB's position. In this position, he is not an ex-president, he is a man who loves his wife.; 3/10/09, 1:47 PM
Anonymous said...: "What you don't know about domestic policy can cause you to lose re-election. What you don't know about foreign policy can get a lot of people killed." — George Herbert Walker Bush, former director of the Central Intelligence Agency, 41st President of the United States of America

This is not a man who frightens easily or tolerates loss poorly. Given his past and his security clearances, I assure you that he knows things that would send all but those among us with the highest intestinal fortitude running to the restroom retching.

And the thought of losing his wife of 60+ years reduces him to tears.

As far as I'm concerned, this makes him one of the most emotionally healthy humans beings I've ever witnessed.; 3/10/09, 2:07 PM
Revenant said...: Mrs. Bush is, from all reports, a kind and nice lady. I wish her well.

Her husband can go f*** himself, but I have nothing but good feelings towards his wife.; 3/10/09, 2:14 PM
KCFleming said...: Old men are permitted to cry. My thoughts about GHWB are unimportant in this, his call to suffering. I wish him well, for getting old is but a series of losses whose narrative arc ends in a full stop. Losing your best friend and love or seeing her decline or in pain is a terrible burden. Godspeed, Barbara, may you feel the cool mornings of Kennebunkport once more, even if only from above.; 3/10/09, 2:19 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: I don't see why his politics should factor into whether one empathizes with the guy or not. It's not a political situation.

Michael Moore is a jerk and a liar, but if he were in the same situation as Bush is here, my reaction would not be, "He's a jerk. I'm glad he's upset. Pansy!"

Why are some of you reacting that way in this case? Aren't there certain common human experiences that don't require a political lens?; 3/10/09, 2:20 PM
garage mahal said...: Didn't know Bush the Wiser was hated in some conservative circles. The guy was a true war hero and a great spook.; 3/10/09, 2:26 PM
J. Cricket said...: Wow.

Imagine how much more emotional he would have been had it been his mistress!!; 3/10/09, 2:26 PM
Unknown said...: Garage, I'm as shocked as you are. Anyone offering up sentiments of hatred in response to this video reveals the emptiness of their own pathetic little life.; 3/10/09, 2:31 PM
Chennaul said...: Well seriously I think I worked on it for over half an hour...

It involves Goldwater, cadets, me trying on my boss's sweaty nylons, and then I end up in the men's room with the VP of the United States-who btw asked me to help him out run the Secret Service , I didn't realize that I was in the men's room with him till I was overwhelmed by the stench of urinal cakes and I practically tackled him trying to get out of there.

Then I ingloriously ratted him out to the Secret Service. [but I am still rather proud of the fact that I managed to be vague about it.]

Hey! I was only 18.

{Honestly it's too complicated. Let's just say I am the biggest klutz on the planet.}

Then a fight breaks out.

The janitor had spent thirty minutes talking to Barbara Bush while Goldwater and her husband were standing around having to hobnob.

The janitor had been trying to get this gal to date him for about three months. She says to the crowd that is talking about how wonderful Barbara Bush was-

"I thought she was his mother she really should dye her hair."

Robert comes storming to the center of the room-

"I will. not. allow. you. to. talk. about HER. like. that!"

So loyalty being something I am into-I quiz Robert about how she- Barbara got him to feel like that-

He said-

"Most people when they see a Mexican with a mop-they treat you like you are invisible-but she saw me.

She saw -me.

Kind of heartbreaking really.

And it went all week like that. I never really told people my one on one experience with the VP their stories were better I guess.

People had good stories to tell about them over and over-there was never anything quite like it and we had lots of famous people come through that building.; 3/10/09, 2:36 PM
Tibore said...: "Freeman Hunt said...
I don't see why his politics should factor into whether one empathizes with the guy or not. It's not a political situation.

Michael Moore is a jerk and a liar, but if he were in the same situation as Bush is here, my reaction would not be, "He's a jerk. I'm glad he's upset. Pansy!"

Why are some of you reacting that way in this case? Aren't there certain common human experiences that don't require a political lens?"

Amen. When news first broke of Senator Kennedy's brain cancer, I chose to draw a distinction between the political and the personal, and made clear that political disagreements didn't mean I wished medical or personal ill towards the person. Many commenters here did the same. More than once. Like I said back then about Kennedy:

"Regardless of any political disagreement, or of any opinion regarding Kopechne, Kennedy is still a human being that deserves at least a modicum of compassion for his cancer. Just because I'd like to see him voted out of office doesn't mean I'm unfeeling for this specific circumstance. Brain tumors are not a curse I'd wish on anyone I don't like."

The same applies to Mr. Bush here. Like him or hate him, the subject here isn't politics. It's a famous person who's spouse is having medical issues. That's something neither right- or left-wing. It's something human.; 3/10/09, 2:53 PM
Darcy said...: I like ricpic. I don't think he's an ugly commenter...

This video was touching. God bless them.; 3/10/09, 2:55 PM
Anonymous said...: Freeman Hunt said..."Same thing that's wrong with all guys. We're not women."

If you have never experienced a deep enough love for a woman that her nearly dying in the hospital couldn't bring you to tears, I pity you. I really do. Everyone should experience that kind of love for another person at least once.

I haven't, but I'm surviving.

I don't think he knew that he was going to cry. But he did. There's nothing unmanly about it given the situation. It's not some outburst of emotion that comes from a weak place or an inauthentic place.

The poor guy is now a testosterone free old maid and I understand he can't always control his emotions at this stage of life any more then he can control his bladder and bowels.

But I wrote - Which is worse a man who wears shorts in public or a man who cries like a baby in public?

There is still a little bit of man in that old guy and one of the things that makes men different from women other than greater tendency toward genius, courage, creativity, aggression, strength and sense of humor is the value placed on composure under stress and the ability not to display emotions IN PUBLIC.

I don't care if he wears boxer shorts at home but I don't want to see him parading around in them in public.

Let him cry like a baby in private, get himself together and go out in the world with some composure. Joke about how tough Barb is, whatever.

Just put on your pants and don't cry like a damn woman.

I remember when Bob Dole cried a bit at Nixon's funeral and he was so angry with himself.

Skyler said it well here.

"Beth, she's married to the enemy. Remember that."

Who is married to the enemy? And who is "the enemy?"

You. Men. White. Heterosexual.

Beth is a lesbian, feminist, lefty academic. You on the other hand sold out and became a breeder among other things.; 3/10/09, 3:11 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: I haven't, but I'm surviving.

Then that's the problem. You don't get it. Yet.

Also, I've yet to ever see a comment from Beth that would indicate she thinks men are "the enemy" or that she has anything against people having children.; 3/10/09, 3:31 PM
chickelit said...: @Darcy:

There's a huge gap between the lines of your 2:55 comment that I'm falling into. I think you need to explain or build a better bridge.; 3/10/09, 3:32 PM
Unknown said...: Oh what a load of utter bullshit, jdeeripper. A man can't get emotional under these circumstances? You're just nuts.; 3/10/09, 3:32 PM
veni vidi vici said...: I remember listening to Nixon's funeral on the radio; I thought Dole's genuine emotion about this friend and mentor of his was a tremendous contrast with Clinton's perfunctory address. Not that I blame Clinton; eulogizing Nixon of all people was probably the last thing he'd have wanted to do, not least for the grief he probably caught from his wife. Still, Dole came off correctly, and with his emotional display properly reminded everyone that Nixon was a real person behind the political bogeyman caricature.

Given Obama's neverending flaying of everything his predecessor did while in office, one can only hope Bush 41 outlives Obama's term in office so that 41's family doesn't have to sit still for the cameras while President Obama delivers an oratorically adept but emotionally clinical eulogy.; 3/10/09, 3:33 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Mcg said it better. Plus, acting as though there are absolutely no circumstances at all whatsoever where a man may be given some leeway in public expression of emotion is just posturing.; 3/10/09, 3:42 PM
JohnnyL said...: ricpic: "This is the fucker who called supply side economics voodoo."

Hell. Learn some history. It WAS voodoo economics. The tax cuts were supposed to be accompanied by spending restraint. However, Reagan's advisers never wanted to spend the political capital that would be necessary to go toe to toe with Congress. They kept him on the sidelines a good part of the time, hesitant to use the Great Communicator. As a result, supply side theory is forever linked to the large deficits incurred during the Reagan presidency even though revenues did increase above what they would have without the tax cuts. Think how great it would have been to have tax cuts, spending restraint and a decent surplus, all incurred under Reagan. We wouldn't be here stuck with Obama and trillion $ plus deficits.; 3/10/09, 3:56 PM
Beth said...: Freeman, thanks. I knew you'd see through that malarkey.

and yes, mcg nailed it.; 3/10/09, 4:02 PM
Dust Bunny Queen said...: There is nothing at all unmanly about President Bush breaking up at the thought of the woman who has been his wife for 60 years, his life's companion, the mother of his children suffering and being at death's door.

If a guy can't get emotional watching Old Yeller...he isn't worth having around.

I don't get the political animus over this issue. I dislike Ted Kennedy and can't stand anything about his politics, yet I don't revel in his pain or the pain and suffering of his family. I can't stand Obama and wish he had never been elected President, but if some tragedy were to occur to Michelle or one of his children, I would be very sad for him.; 3/10/09, 4:17 PM
Skyler said...: mahal wrote: Didn't know Bush the Wiser was hated in some conservative circles. The guy was a true war hero and a great spook.

This isn't really a political thread, but since you bring it up, the man was a hard core socialist who didn't even try to reduce taxes, who gave the FCC the authority to regulate cable television, and who knew how to start a war but didn't know how to win one. He was the biggest reason not to vote for his son, were the alternative any better.

He wasn't the worst president ever, but he didn't really do much good, either, especially following on the heels of Reagan when he had so much momentum to really return a lot of our long forgotten freedom from the government.; 3/10/09, 4:31 PM
Skyler said...: If a guy can't get emotional watching Old Yeller...he isn't worth having around.

I've never seen Old Yeller but there's a difference between getting emotional, and showing emotion publicly. If you're at home on the couch with your family and loved ones, that's totally different than being on a public stage. You know why? Because people will talk about you badly like we are here. That's why.; 3/10/09, 4:34 PM
Chip Ahoy said...: * looks up umpolung *; 3/10/09, 4:35 PM
Skyler said...: I dislike Ted Kennedy and can't stand anything about his politics, yet I don't revel in his pain or the pain and suffering of his family.

Mary Jo Kopechne has no comment.; 3/10/09, 4:35 PM
Blue@9 said...: jdeeripper is just another Internet Tough Guy ("ITG"):

"Hur, real men don't cry in public, hur! The guy doesn't have any testosterone, hur! He's not manly, hur!"

George H.W. Bush flew bombing missions against the Imperial Japanese Navy and Army before he was 20. He ran companies, was an ambassador, was elected to Congress, ran the CIA, was VP, and then won the Presidency.

Meanwhile, ITG is just another ugly anonymous prick throwing bombs on the internet. You're still less of a man than Bush, and if you ever reach 80 years of age, you'll still be less of a man.; 3/10/09, 4:35 PM
Revenant said...: I don't get the political animus over this issue. I dislike Ted Kennedy and can't stand anything about his politics, yet I don't revel in his pain or the pain and suffering of his family.

It isn't that I want Ted Kennedy to suffer and die. Its that I can't shake the feeling that the world would be a better place today if his mother had opted for a back-alley abortion. This limits my ability to empathize with his problems, if you see my point. Most people leave the world a better place than they found it. He won't.

But anyone who mocks a man for crying when his loved ones are near death is a macho idiot, that's for sure.; 3/10/09, 4:44 PM
bagoh20 said...: This is just an ugly immature set of comments. Sorry you have to have your name on it Ann. I wish some would lose interest in coming here before I have to.; 3/10/09, 4:45 PM
Unknown said...: Its that I can't shake the feeling that the world would be a better place today if his mother had opted for a back-alley abortion.

And the evidence that wouldn't be true for you as well is... what, exactly?; 3/10/09, 4:48 PM
Revenant said...: And the evidence that wouldn't be true for you as well is... what, exactly?

Why would it matter if it was true for me or not? Unless you grade human worth on a curve, the question of whether or not Ted Kennedy is an asshole can be answered without knowing anything about me at all.; 3/10/09, 6:10 PM
Darcy said...: LOL, chickenlittle.

I wasn't defending ricpic's comments, I was defending him overall. And the gap was intended! ;-); 3/10/09, 6:32 PM
Unknown said...: Why would it matter if it was true for me or not?

Because you're the one who brought up empathy, which necessarily requires a comparison to self.; 3/10/09, 8:05 PM
chickelit said...: Thanks for clarifying that Darcy. I'm a bit muddy, but the bridge is crossed. Let's carry on.; 3/10/09, 8:11 PM
garage mahal said...: New sheets.; 3/10/09, 8:13 PM
CarmelaMotto said...: I have noticed the Bush Sr. gets emotional when talking about those he loves. Not only about talking about soldiers, but his daughter who died of Leukemia.

I have become more emotional with age that whenever I see someone cry, I seem to have to cry or at least get teary too. This made me cry.

You can't share as much as they have, including the death of a child (which either brings you closer together or creates a distance you may never recover from) and not get emotional.; 3/10/09, 8:34 PM
Revenant said...: Because you're the one who brought up empathy, which necessarily requires a comparison to self.

Empathy requires the ability to identify with what the other person is feeling. It does not require the ability to identify with the other person, nor does it require that you compare them with yourself.

But even if it did, your argument still wouldn't make any sense.; 3/10/09, 8:49 PM
Unknown said...: Empathy requires the ability to identify with what the other person is feeling... Nor does it require that you compare them with yourself.

Empathy in no way requires you to like a person or have compassion for him. It only requires that you can identify with his feelings or experience. That you can put yourself in his shoes in that particular situation, for instance. Because you can draw sufficient parallels to your own experience.

But the reason you cited why you can't generate empathy is not because you've faced mortality yourself or that of a loved one, dealt with serious illness, etc. etc... it was because in your view his net contribution to this world is negative.

So I'm certainly willing to believe you don't really know what empathy is, but the way it's written you're saying you can't put yourself in his shoes because that would require descending too many steps from your lofty perch.; 3/10/09, 10:00 PM
rcocean said...: Funny how image is everything. Bush I is a real man. Naval aviator, college athlete, oil executive, CIA director, President. The old fart was skydiving a few years ago. A guy who could have used his wealth and position to stay safe but instead went out and flew 20 incredibly dangerous combat missions.

But his gentlemanly manner and moderate politics got him labeled a "wimp". Unlike Arnold whose a tough guy - onscreen.

Real men cry - they just cry at the right things. Patton cried, Robert E. Lee cried, Bobby Knight cries, Reagan cried. I doubt Bill Clinton or Ted Kennedy have cried about anything - except to feel sorry for themselves.; 3/10/09, 10:07 PM
JAL said...: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CG1G7dpYl9w

I was looking for the more complete transcript of this, but the last minute is the part touches on it.

This might be waht followed ...

"I've been scared in every war I've ever been in....Any man who doesn't cry scares me a little."; 3/10/09, 10:51 PM
BJM said...: If you have never experienced a deep enough love for a woman that her nearly dying in the hospital couldn't bring you to tears, I pity you. I really do. Everyone should experience that kind of love for another person at least once.

I haven't, but I'm surviving.

Gees, jdee you didn't/don't have a mother?; 3/11/09, 12:41 AM
Anonymous said...: Freeman Hunt said...I haven't, but I'm surviving.

Then that's the problem. You don't get it. Yet.

Whatever George H.W. Bush has I don't want to get it. Ever.

Do I feel bad that Ronald Reagan picked this over priviledged loser as his VP? Yes.

Do I feel bad that Reagan's choice led to a Bush presidency followed by his semi retarded son becoming president and pretty much destroying the Republican party and handing over the Presidency to Obama/Emanuel/Axelrod? Yes.

I feel bad about that national disaster but I'm not going to cry about it.

At least not publicly.; 3/11/09, 2:35 AM
Lydia said...: I actually think it was indecent of you to post that clip. He's terribly afraid of losing his much-loved wife, and he's a very old man. All the old men I've ever known have been easily moved to tears. Who knows, maybe that having to hide their emotions most of their lives finally just slips away. In any case, shame on you, Ann Althouse.; 3/11/09, 3:25 AM
Revenant said...: So I'm certainly willing to believe you don't really know what empathy is

You're just playing word games here, and I'm really not interested. Freeman complained about people not empathizing with their political enemies. I was using the term in the colloquial sense she did -- of not simply being able to recognize what a person with a sick loved one is feeling, but feel a degree of compassion for them as well.

So yes, I completely understand what Ted Kennedy's friends and relatives are feeling while he dies of cancer. And yes, technically, that counts as "empathizing". But it doesn't change the fact that he could die in screaming agony tomorrow and it wouldn't bother me at all. If you want to wave a dictionary at me and say that I'm using the wrong words then fine, do so. I don't care enough to argue the semantics of it. But if you said to somebody "I completely empathize with you, but I don't care how much you suffer" they're going to rightly think you're an idiot, because that's not how the term is used in English.; 3/11/09, 4:13 AM
mrs whatsit said...: Nobody here knows their history, it seems. The elder Bush has always been susceptible to tearing up when deeply moved. For instance, his Wikiquote entry cites a 1989 headline from Newsday: "Bush Fights Tears at Memorial." He was addressing the families of 47 crew members of the USS Iowa who were killed in an explosion. There were plenty of other such occasions during and shortly after his Presidency.

I have never been a fan of the man's politics, but as for his masculinity -- those of you who believe that showing emotion in public when his wife of 60 years is near death makes the man a wimp should come back and say so AFTER they've become a fighter pilot as a teenager, flown 58 combat missions, been shot down by the Japanese, run the CIA, been President, and lost a child.; 3/11/09, 4:42 AM
Anonymous said...: Geez. I thought that 'Wimp Factor' meme died when Bush 41 invaded Panama. Give the old guy a break.; 3/11/09, 6:05 AM
Unknown said...: But if you said to somebody "I completely empathize with you, but I don't care how much you suffer" they're going to rightly think you're an idiot, because that's not how the term is used in English.

If they thought that, they'd be wrong. People use the distinction "I can't empathize but I do sympathize" all the time; the reverse is certainly rare but entirely correct. The only reason it's not said is because it would require you to be a tactless asshole.; 3/11/09, 6:42 AM
Unknown said...: Whatever George H.W. Bush has I don't want to get it. Ever.

Sanity? How sad for you.; 3/11/09, 6:43 AM
Revenant said...: People use the distinction "I can't empathize but I do sympathize" all the time

The dictionary lists "sympathize" and "empathize" as synonyms.

The phrase "I can't empathize but I do sympathize" returns ten hits on Google. "I can't sympathize but I do empathize" returns two.

That pretty well sums up how often English speakers use the term "empathize" the way you think it should be used. I would suggest that the next time you want to play the role of Language Police, you find a less ridiculous argument to make.; 3/11/09, 5:29 PM
Host with the Most said...: veni,

Dole's genuine emotion about this friend and mentor of his was a tremendous contrast with Clinton's perfunctory address. Not that I blame Clinton; eulogizing Nixon of all people was probably the last thing he'd have wanted to do, not least for the grief he probably caught from his wife

I am far from a Clinton fan, but at that Nixon funeral he delivered one of the best lines ever spoken:

"Let us say, may the days of judging President Nixon on anything less than his entire life and career come to a close."

I am certain that Bill CLinton hopes the same for himself.; 3/11/09, 6:27 PM