Althouse: Sarah Palin "falls apart, babbling nonsensical non-sentences that prompt nasty quips about whether the former Pentecostal is speaking in tongues."

October 2, 2008

Sarah Palin "falls apart, babbling nonsensical non-sentences that prompt nasty quips about whether the former Pentecostal is speaking in tongues."

Writes Michelle Cottle in TNR.

Ha ha ha. I get it. What a hilarious idea for political humor! You pick a religion that the candidate has some past relationship to, then you pick some aspect of it that seems ridiculous to a cloddish nonbeliever, then you attribute that trait to the candidate.

Okay, thanks, Michelle! Come on everyone! Let's come up with some cool new wisecracks! Let's test out th is new comic device on Barack Obama.

What's the matter, Michelle? You don't think it would be very nice to use your comic device against him and against Muslims?

Oh, you say you didn't actually yourself ridicule Palin for seeming as if she's speaking in tongues like a Pentecostal, you said that her "non-sentences ... prompt nasty quips" abut whether she's speaking in tongues like a Pentecostal. So that wasn't you making that quip. You were just reporting the quips that come from out there somewhere. "Prompts nasty quips" gets those quips out at some distance from you. You didn't cite the conventional "some people" -- or "wags" -- but they are in there, implicitly. And you even chided them for their nastiness.

Got it. So, remember, when you use Cottle's comic device, decorously preface the religion mocking with the phrase "prompts nasty quips" so you don't get your hands dirty.

Good lord, "prompts nasty quips" is itself an awe-inspiring rhetorical device that should empower us to say all sorts of crude and politically incorrect things!

Do you approve, Michelle?

131 comments:

Anonymous said...: I have never seen, in all my years on this Earth, so much hate unjustifibly directed at one person. What does motivate it? What is it?; 10/2/08, 8:15 AM
Sloanasaurus said...: It's my understanding that Palin left the Pentecostal church some years ago. Compare this to Obama leaving islam some years ago. So if we attribute pentecostal ills to Palin, it's legitimate to attribute islamic ills to Obama. Like Polygamy, terrorism, degenerate treatment of women etc..

Regardless of all this, no criticism of Palin comes close to the fact that Obama sat through 20 years of white hating speeches by the Rev. Wright - a man Obama called his spiritual mentor.; 10/2/08, 8:15 AM
Moose said...: I think Andrew Sullivan is writing a stylebook regarding how to write sarcastic barbs about Palin.

This clearly should go in there...; 10/2/08, 8:16 AM
AllenS said...: Sometimes just shaking your head in sadness is the only proper response.; 10/2/08, 8:19 AM
George M. Spencer said...: There's something to be said for incoherence and mush.

The best thing she could do is come out, look into the camera, and tell America, "I'm a mother of five children. I want them to grow up in a better world, a more prosperous America. I run a household. I know about job and money and budget problems."

Keep it simple and reassuring.

Let Biden talk about LIBOR and whether the Fed will cut rates. That will only remind people that he's a fast-talking sharpie who's been part of the problem for 30 years.

Ya know, we are on the brink of total global financial collapse. A pep talk from Mother Palin would be comforting. And if she could make us a grilled cheese sandwich and Campbell's Tomato Soup with goldfish floating in it that would be dandy.; 10/2/08, 8:19 AM
TJ said...: "A pep talk from Mother Palin would be comforting."

Go back to the womb if you want to. The rest of us want to know adults who understand the problem are ready to fix it. I have my opinions about who can do this, but I'd rather hear an argument on the specifics, not fuzzy palliatives.; 10/2/08, 8:22 AM
Unknown said...: I'm sorry, Ann, but I am sooooo tired of "writers" such as Michelle Cottle regardless of who or what they are writing about.

The first paragraph alone shows her trying too hard to be clever. Her snark about Keanu Reeves - an actor that I personally have no particular regard for - was a failed attempt to sound like the gossip dishes of the 50's. Or perhaps Michelle was aiming at being picked up as the next "Wonkette". Either way, there is always one major thing completely lacking in the writing of Michelle Cottle:

Talent.; 10/2/08, 8:25 AM
KCFleming said...: Excellent critique, Althouse.

"Prompts nasty quips" =
"Studies show" =
"Many have said"=
"Experts agree that"=
"I believe".; 10/2/08, 8:25 AM
Anonymous said...: Obama lapses into Campaign Swahili. Ha ha ha, I kill myself with these nasty quips!; 10/2/08, 8:32 AM
Henry said...: Keanu Reeves, who is never well-cast

Keanu Reeves is also well-regarded in Hollywood as a professional. He's a guy who comes prepared, has his ego in check, does the job that asked of him.

Of course he isn't an actor of Al Pacino's rank. He'll never succeed or bomb as dramatically as Al.

But the analogy is apt. What Michelle is ridiculing is Palin's ability to act.

Where, admittedly, she's had two bad performances in a row. Scent of a Woman bad.; 10/2/08, 8:34 AM
goesh said...: quippy quippy! once in a mosque, always in a mosque and I'm truly sorry for the way my uncle the life long democrat feels but he sho nuff said that, he did, but since Palin is a woman, he will have to vote for the muslim, he said that too, a man of hard choices he is. america is obama's to bend and why the F not?; 10/2/08, 8:37 AM
Anonymous said...: Tervor Jackson, while I don't need a pep talk from a public figure, I don't want them to think that they can fix the issues on their own either. Just look at the "bailout" bill.; 10/2/08, 8:39 AM
George M. Spencer said...: Trevor--

Most voters don't understand what's going on with the bailout bill. And they never will. Most people are frightened. They should be.

Part of a politician's job is to convincingly offer "fuzzy palliatives" to give people confidence. That's part of the reason why FDR is so beloved. Here's film and audio of his first inaugural. He says the "we have nothing to fear" line with in the first 30 seconds.

It's all a big, big pep talk as he talks about how lucky America still is and how bountiful nature is.

"Happiness lies not in the mere possession of money; it lies in the joy of achievement, in the thrill of creative effort. The joy and moral stimulation of work no longer must be forgotten in the mad chase of evanescent profits. These dark days will be worth all they cost us if they teach us that our true destiny is not to be ministered unto but to minister to ourselves and to our fellow men."

He spoke unashamedly about ministering to America's soul.; 10/2/08, 8:41 AM
Kirk Parker said...: Trevor,

"The rest of us want to know adults who understand the problem are ready to fix it"

No problem. You don't even have to leave Althouse to get your world news; just read the previous post: the "fix" is in, all the "geniuses" in Washington are on the case, and soon everything will be wonderful.; 10/2/08, 8:42 AM
MadisonMan said...: What allens said. (8:19)

I would add rolling your eyes, too.; 10/2/08, 8:43 AM
Anonymous said...: With all this talk about the election, it prompted a quip about a priest, rabbi and imman walking into a bar....; 10/2/08, 8:43 AM
Anonymous said...: MadisonMan, indeed. I have been doing both for a long time now.

Trevor, on the topic of pep talks, what are "Hope" and "Change" and "Yes, we can"?

There are fuzzy palliatives going all around.; 10/2/08, 8:45 AM
Palladian said...: "Sometimes just shaking your head in sadness is the only proper response."

"I would add rolling your eyes, too."

Be careful, if you do that it might prompt nasty quips that you're having a seizure.; 10/2/08, 8:45 AM
TJ said...: Hey, I like warm speeches as much as the next Joe Six-pack. I'm talking about the debate, not inaugural or even stump speeches. Empathy and compassion are important to convey, even in a debate, but more important is an honest explanation of your principles and how they differ from your opponents'.; 10/2/08, 8:46 AM
knox said...: First of all, that writer is a "Senior Editor" ?!; 10/2/08, 8:48 AM
An Edjamikated Redneck said...: Ya know, if you are a Presidential Candidate who is constantly putting distance between your self and your wife by sending her to campaign on her own, that could promt nasty quips that the candidate is either gay or involved in a extra-maritial relationship!

Your right, this is fun!; 10/2/08, 8:54 AM
garage mahal said...: What's the matter, Michelle? You don't think it would be very nice to use your comic device against him and against Muslims?

Probably not as he's never been a Muslim.; 10/2/08, 8:56 AM
An Edjamikated Redneck said...: Ya know, a Presidential Candidate who has kept his Moslem name, despite 30 years or more as a Christian, may open himself up to nasty quips about still being a Moslem!

Again, no rumor, no fact (or factoid), just a possible opening for quips.; 10/2/08, 8:56 AM
knox said...: But then Katie Couric--sweet, smiley, soft-haired, soft-spoken, heavily mascaraed Katie

This is disingenous. Far from perky, Katie was glaring at Palin. It was like she was trying to out-do Gibson in disdain.

Furthermore, it's foolish for anyone in the media to act like the Ifill conflict of interest is just a silly little lark. They are allowing themselves to look like they are part of a rigged game, or worse, that they don't care if it's rigged. Making fun of conservatives for noticing is a big mistake.

I understand the NR is a liberal rag, certainly they will have a liberal take on the Palin issue; but this is not a very insightful piece.; 10/2/08, 8:58 AM
George M. Spencer said...: Her bio at TNR:

Michelle Cottle has been a senior editor at The New Republic since February 1999. She is a 1992 magna cum laude graduate of Vanderbilt University with a B.A. in English and a minor in European Studies.

Prior to joining tnr, Cottle was an editor of The Washington Monthly for two years. She has also worked for the Tom Peters Group, editing its monthly newsletter; served as an editorial fellow at Mother Jones magazine, and has done freelance writing, editing, and commentary for CNN, The New York Times, Time, Slate, The Atlantic and George magazine, among others. Cottle is a regular panelist for the PBS political affairs show, "Tucker Carlson Unfiltered."

She was a "fellow" at Mother Jones. I thought they only had comrades there.

---

There's no shortage of ridiculous political pieces in magazines. This month's Smithsonian? Cover lines play up a 'humorous' essay on the swiftboating of George Washington and an essay in which JFK mouthpiece Ted Sorensen compares Sen. Obama to Abraham Lincoln, sort of. And you thought Smithsonian magazine was about coral reefs, Bernini, and Stonehenge....; 10/2/08, 8:59 AM
An Edjamikated Redneck said...: Ya know, a Presidential candidate who has never held a real job and has as a main claim to fame that he was once elected a Senator from Chicago... I mean Illinois... may open himself up to quips that he is unprepared to be President.

But its only an opening for a possible quip, no offense intended.; 10/2/08, 8:59 AM
Wince said...: Ann,

As a constitutional scholar, what’s your take on Couric’s two-part SCOTUS question?

It seemed like a softball for Biden. In preparing the question, there was an obvious SCOTUS decision he disagreed with that gave him one more high profile opportunity to demagogue the issue of “Violence Against Women.”

On substance, aside from the 14th Amendment privacy right he asserts that has been discussed at the NRO Corner and elsewhere, what about Biden touting the fact he authored an unconstitutional statute?

For all his alleged profundity, which candidate has demonstrated a worse understanding of federal authority under the constitution?; 10/2/08, 9:01 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Palin should announce tonight that one of the first things McCain has asked her to do is kick off "Palin's Citizens Commission" to get to the bottom of who and what caused the Fannie Freddie Wall Street bailout etc. With indictments to follow of course.

It is much much bigger than the Enron or Worldcom scandals right?; 10/2/08, 9:01 AM
Anonymous said...: I continue to be amazed by the degree to which the body politic in this country seem to have accepted the fact that the majority of the media have openly come out in favor on one political party. It's incredible.; 10/2/08, 9:02 AM
bill said...: Keanu Reeves, who is never well-cast

Replace never with seldom or, perhaps, occasionally. Agreed, he wasn't very good in The Devil's Advocate and he was even worse in Much Ado About Nothing. But he does have a certain style about him that works in the right role. He isn't a particularly nuanced actor, though -- maybe more importantly -- he can be believable.

I am far from being a Reeves aficionado, still, even I can pick out a handful of decent roles.

*River's Edge
*Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure
*Parenthood -- against the loudness and flailing of the other actors he has a couple of very nice quiet moments
*Point Break -- he's Olivier compared to Gary Busey
*Speed
*The Replacements -- this is a horrible movie and Gene Hackman is embarrassing in it. It's Reeves who has the only watchable scenes as his earlier surfer/slacker attitude has now grown into and inhabits a beaten-down weariness. It's far from being my favorite movie of those he's been in, but it's probably his role I most enjoy.; 10/2/08, 9:03 AM
Brian Doyle said...: The joke isn't about Pentecostals it's about what an idiot Sarah Palin is.; 10/2/08, 9:05 AM
knox said...: And you thought Smithsonian magazine was about coral reefs, Bernini, and Stonehenge....

Yeah, we canceled National Geographic a while ago because too many articles were just chock full of politics. There was one on Venezuela that was particularly shameful. Writers are too busy trying to be Important to tell a decent story.; 10/2/08, 9:06 AM
Peter V. Bella said...: How come none of these immature snarks jump on all of the Biden gaffes and lies?

Joe Biden claims FDR was on television in 1929 assuring the nation...

Joe Biden claims he was shot at while on a vacation tour of Iraq.
(he was in a bunker shaving)

Joe Biden claims he is a hard coal miner. He probably would not know coal if it hit him in the head.

Joe Biden asks handicapped people in wheel chairs to stand up and let the crowd see them.

Where are all the comedic devices? Why is he allowed to get away with this drivel? I mean the guy is a walking, talking, drooling cretin.

Or do Democrats get the free pass?; 10/2/08, 9:07 AM
Spread Eagle said...: Probably not as he's never been a Muslim.

You got that right ace. I know LOTS of devout church-going Christians proudly middle named Hussein. Meet one or two daily in fact.; 10/2/08, 9:08 AM
knox said...: don't forget "The Matrix"; 10/2/08, 9:08 AM
Brian Doyle said...: Also, Ann is only a PC scold when it's in defense of a Republican.; 10/2/08, 9:08 AM
PogoПОССУМ said...: She is beaten.
неудачник! Loser!
Plan for дезинформация disinformation complete success.
We have won!

Future is bright!; 10/2/08, 9:09 AM
Sprezzatura said...: Althouse should step off the ledge. Come back in.

I go to an Assemblies of God church, and I am not at all offended by this comment. I think it's funny.

Thanks for the pity, Althouse; but you can keep it.; 10/2/08, 9:09 AM
Brian Doyle said...: Is Spread Eagle a parody troll?; 10/2/08, 9:10 AM
Triangle Man said...: Edjamikated Redneck said...

Ya know, a Presidential candidate who has never held a real job and has as a main claim to fame that he was once elected a Senator from Chicago... I mean Illinois... may open himself up to quips that he is unprepared to be President.

It seems that supporters of both campaigns have focused on pointing out apparent hypocrisies of the other side. Who are you trying to convince with this? Mature and informed voters see through this and will make their choices based on their best estimation of the types of decisions that the candidate will make as President. I think this means that all of this effort is going to sway the opinions of some 18 - 21 year old "undecideds".; 10/2/08, 9:11 AM
Peter V. Bella said...: Probably not as he's never been a Muslim.

You know this for a fact? You read it in his autobiography? You have some proof?

Obama is just like Hillary Clinton. All that is known about him is in his books. He says it, it is considered gospel. Everyone else gets fact checked, verified, vetted, or any of the other "devices" to prove them right or wrong. We know nothing about Obama aside from what he has done publically; which is slim.

They get the free pass.; 10/2/08, 9:14 AM
Brian Doyle said...: You have some proof?

This is so nauseating. Can you prove you're not a Muslim? Really? All that's required to convert is to say "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His prophet."

I'd like audiotapes of your entire life to establish that you've never said this, otherwise it's only prudent to assume your a radical Islamist.; 10/2/08, 9:16 AM
Peter V. Bella said...: The joke isn't about Pentecostals it's about what an idiot Sarah Palin is.

If she were Obama's choice, she would be considered a rocket scientist; like Joe Biden.; 10/2/08, 9:17 AM
Anonymous said...: Zdroivoitie, Здравствулте, товарич ПОССУМ!!; 10/2/08, 9:18 AM
An Edjamikated Redneck said...: Triangle Man said... It seems that supporters of both campaigns...

Sorry Friends; I appear to awoken an Astroturf farmer.; 10/2/08, 9:18 AM
Wince said...: Now that I think about it, Palin also had a pretty obvious SCOTUS decision that she disagreed with in the recent Exxon punitive damages decision, true?

Which tells me she may have simply ceased-up. Maybe it is mostly acting?; 10/2/08, 9:20 AM
Peter V. Bella said...: This is so nauseating. Can you prove you're not a Muslim? Really? All that's required to convert is to say "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His prophet."

I'd like audiotapes of your entire life to establish that you've never said this, otherwise it's only prudent to assume your a radical Islamist.

Actually Doyle, I never have said that. What is nauseating is the consistent free pass the Dems are getting this year from the oh soooo ethical media.; 10/2/08, 9:20 AM
garage mahal said...: You got that right ace. I know LOTS of devout church-going Christians proudly middle named Hussein. Meet one or two daily in fact.

Roughly 3% of Iraq's population are/were Christian [or 800,000] over half of them fled to Syria for "safe haven" after we liberated them. For example.; 10/2/08, 9:21 AM
Brian Doyle said...: If she were Obama's choice, she would be considered a rocket scientist;

Yeah yeah we know. It's all just a cult of personality. It has nothing to do with the fact that our guy is a Harvard educated lawyer and legislator and your girl is a former beauty queen and sportscaster.; 10/2/08, 9:21 AM
PogoПОССУМ said...: Har!
Now the Doyle he is the Islamic, for he say the words of magic!; 10/2/08, 9:22 AM
Brian Doyle said...: Peter what more digging could the press do to establish that Obama's a Christian. Maybe dig into his history with his church and his pastor? Didn't they already do that???

Fox tried to smear him by saying he went to a madrassa in Indonesia even though that was untrue. So more than enough has been made about Obama's religious background.

If it's still a big litmus test for you, maybe you should move to a more theocratic country.; 10/2/08, 9:24 AM
Anonymous said...: Doyle said...

Yeah yeah we know. It's all just a cult of personality. It has nothing to do with the fact that our guy is a Harvard educated lawyer and legislator and your girl is a former beauty queen and sportscaster.

9:21 AM

Well, this precisely one of the biggest problesm. People are trying to do away with one of the pillars of democracy: the fact that anyone can be elected to office. A, sadly, not insignificant group of people seem very comfortable with the idea of creating a "superior intelectual political elite" to rule us all. In fact, they are working actively for it. People want to be governed, not ruled, and most of all not based on a superiority/inferiority premise; but on equality.; 10/2/08, 9:26 AM
Brian Doyle said...: People are trying to do away with one of the pillars of democracy: the fact that anyone can be elected to office.

Anyone can run for office, but the government tends to work better when only non-morons are elected.; 10/2/08, 9:27 AM
Brian Doyle said...: Put more delicately, it's not that she lacks the candlepower, it's that she lacks the curiosity.

She takes pride in her ignorance, like our current president always has.; 10/2/08, 9:29 AM
Bob R said...: Bigotry. The nomenklature is under the mistaken impression that their manners provide some separation between them and Lester Maddox wielding an axe handle. Somewhere in hell, Lester is smiling. He'll have visitors some day.; 10/2/08, 9:29 AM
Henry said...: Doyle wrote: the government tends to work better when only non-morons are elected.

I don't think we have enough data to support that hypothesis.; 10/2/08, 9:30 AM
Anonymous said...: Doyle, can you actually prove that she takes pride on this alledged ignorance you quip about?; 10/2/08, 9:31 AM
Brian Doyle said...: Can you guys refresh my memory on the benefits of having a (potential) president who doesn't know s--- about s---?; 10/2/08, 9:32 AM
Anonymous said...: Henry said...
Doyle wrote: the government tends to work better when only non-morons are elected.

I don't think we have enough data to support that hypothesis.

9:30 AM

You took those words from right underneath my fingertips...hehehe...; 10/2/08, 9:33 AM
CarmelaMotto said...: It is lazy writing and childish. If you lack skills as a writer and do not have something constructive to contribute (Maureen Dowd comes to mind), you make snarky, childish comments.; 10/2/08, 9:33 AM
An Edjamikated Redneck said...: Doyle, or is that only the folks selected for Harvard or Yale have are not morons?

Sorry but it was the harvard and Yale attorneys and MBAs who handed us the current financial mess we're in.

I'm ready for some new leadership. Let's have a few sportscasters in Washington; along with carpenters, auto mechanics and machinists. They may not be Harvard educated, but my guess is they aren't as able to steal from us like the current crop consistently has.; 10/2/08, 9:33 AM
Brian Doyle said...: Doyle, can you actually prove that she takes pride on this alledged ignorance you quip about?

Well one example: When she was asked why she'd never had a passport before, she said it was because she was working too hard. Regular people have jobs to do and can't travel to see other countries. That's something elitists do, and she's no elitist! (Even though she owns a plane and went to school in Hawaii).; 10/2/08, 9:35 AM
ricpic said...: ...a grilled cheese sandwich and Campbell's Tomato Soup...

And my mother hanging over the sink with her back to me
When I came home from school for lunch
And babbled to her back about my adventures that day --
What else gets us through this vale of tears?

Sarah, if that's what you have to offer, it's plenty good.; 10/2/08, 9:36 AM
Henry said...: Can you guys refresh my memory on the benefits of having a (potential) president who doesn't know s--- about s---?

George Washington. Seriously. The man had honor, integrity, and a good bullshit detector, but Jefferson, Hamilton, and Adams were far more intellectual.; 10/2/08, 9:37 AM
George M. Spencer said...: Re: the whole Obama/Muslim thing...

I'd like to ask him (and the other candidates)..."You agree, don't you, that Muhammad is not a prophet (or messenger) of God? A 'yes' or ' no' answer will suffice."

Then I'd ask them if they think the Pentagon has sufficiently studied Islamic war doctrine, their opinion of Muhammad as a military strategist, and what their understanding of Islamic war doctrine is.

An interesting discussion of the subject at the Middle East Strategy at Harvard website.

Taqiyya anyone?; 10/2/08, 9:38 AM
Unknown said...: "then you pick some aspect of it that seems ridiculous to a cloddish nonbeliever"

But some things can't be defended. Not Obama's relationship with Rev. Wright and not Palin's relationship with Pentacostalism.

I grew up in Alabama. My mother's family was Southern Baptist, and my father's family was Pentacostal. Southern Baptists are about as conservative both socially and theologically as it is possible to be. And even they look down their noses at Pentacostals. Have any of you ever been to a Pentacostal service where the preacher falls down on the floor while speaking in tongues and writhing around? This is not mainstream, and yes, it is ridiculous.

Pentacostalism is a fringe offshoot of Christianity, (remember Romney's Mormanism?) It is a liability in our 21st century world to have a Pentacostal mindset. And I can guarantee you that the Wasilla Bible Church is not much better. She is not the person we need to have representing us in the international arena and helping to make decisions about world affairs. Not if she believes in the Rapture and thinks that we are living in the end times.

Obama's anger is nothing compared to the delusions of those who honestly and truly believe that Jesus is coming back to take the Elect to heaven and leave the rest of us behind. And that Jesus can come back at any time (this afternoon, over dinner tonight...) so we are living in the end times. To these people, what do we have to lose by bombing Iran? It might just be what we need to do to bring Jesus back more quickly.

Seriously. This is what we're dealing with in Sarah Palin. It doesn't just seem ridiculous. It is DANGEROUS.; 10/2/08, 9:38 AM
Brian Doyle said...: Henry -

I'll stipulate to the desirability of "honor, integrity, and a good bullshit detector," but I don't see how they follow from ignorance as much as they can be offsetting qualities.; 10/2/08, 9:41 AM
Brian Doyle said...: Plus, I think there's ample evidence that Palin isn't going to set any records for honesty (Bridge to Nowhere?); 10/2/08, 9:43 AM
Wince said...: It has nothing to do with the fact that our guy is a Harvard educated lawyer and legislator and your girl is a former beauty queen and sportscaster.

McCain is a girl and was a former beauty queen and sportscaster?; 10/2/08, 9:43 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: I bet Slow Joe Biden did not have a passport until he got to the Senate.; 10/2/08, 9:46 AM
Anonymous said...: McCain criticizes Ifill

HANNITY: Your thoughts, Governor, is that a concern at all to you?

PALIN: You know, I'm not going to let it be a concern. Let me just tell you that John McCain has been in an underdog position before, and this ticket, I think it is safe to say, is in an underdog position.

But that's what makes us work harder. It makes us want to communicate more clearly and profoundly with the electorate, letting them know what the contrasts are between these two tickets, It's motivating to me, even, to hear Gwen's comments there because, again, it makes us work that much harder, and it provides even more fairness and objectivity and choices for the voters on November 4th, if we try that much harder.; 10/2/08, 9:47 AM
Anonymous said...: Amy, exactly how are Palin's personal religious beliefs dangerous to society at large?; 10/2/08, 9:49 AM
Anonymous said...: Doyle seems to believe Obama (PBUH) is running against Palin. Interesting.; 10/2/08, 9:50 AM
Tom Kelly said...: Like most black churches, Obama's church is pentecostal- they speak in tongues.

This is copied from the Google 2001 version of the Trinity Church website (http://web.archive.org/web/20010708095632/www.tucc.org/aboutus/tenpointvision.htm):

TEN POINT VISION

Trinity United Church of Christ

A Worshipping Church

A Spirit-Filled Church

A Praying Church

A Tithing Church

A Bible-Based Church

A Progressive Church

A Politically Aware and Active Church

A Love-Centered Church

A Stronger-Working Church

A Community-Conscious & Liberation-Conscious Church

"Spirit Filled" is the term that churches use to convey "pentecostal" and "speaking in tongues".; 10/2/08, 9:50 AM
Zekarias said...: You are right Ann! This blinded liberal wacos will say and do anything to see Obama elected. It is baffling to me when the talking heads on CNN talks about Obama's qualification to be President, 'well you know, we don't really know'. But when it comes to Sarah Palin, oh boy, they know exactly what quaifies one to be a President.; 10/2/08, 9:51 AM
reader_iam said...: I am riding down the road in rural Indiana, posting from my iPhone, and I can't get to YouTube to search for a video and link it. But if I could, I would link to "The Mom Song" (a comedy bit set to the William Tell Overture). If anyone wants to do the honors and blame me ... .

Also, I already have a mother, and I've been able to make my own grilled-cheese sandwich and tomato soup for decades now.; 10/2/08, 9:51 AM
Brian Doyle said...: and this ticket, I think it is safe to say, is in an underdog position.

Well she's right about that!

McCain knows it's over. You could tell in his Des Moines Register interview. Super cranky.; 10/2/08, 9:51 AM
Anonymous said...: Actually, I recall about 1046 posts from Ann Althouse absolutely disparaging Obama and his Church.

Or was it 1047 posts.; 10/2/08, 9:54 AM
Peter V. Bella said...: It has nothing to do with the fact that our guy is a Harvard educated lawyer and legislator and your girl is a former beauty queen and sportscaster.

Harvard Law? That is only good if he is applying for a job as an attorney. Legislator? He did nothing in Illinois, except what he was toldto do and he has done nothing in the Senate.

Palin is a governor. She has actually run a government. Sorry. Your guy has an empty resume with a lot of candlepower. Of course that is all that counts.; 10/2/08, 9:55 AM
Peter V. Bella said...: Plus, I think there's ample evidence that Palin isn't going to set any records for honesty (Bridge to Nowhere?)

Joe Biden is honest? The guy who is in the pocket of every credit card company and Delaware Corporation? Obama, there is a laugh. Honest? Every election he ran in was a guaranteed win. He is part and parcel of the Chicago Democratic Machine. Yeah, keep talking about honesty.

How about those supporters of his? Former Weathermen, former Black Panther, former member of the FALN. Let us talk about honesty.; 10/2/08, 10:03 AM
reader_iam said...: Oh! Ohio! Hey, we just crossed the state line, while listening to "Interjections!" (by Schoolhouse Rock)! Wow!

/OT; 10/2/08, 10:06 AM
Chip Ahoy said...: Many people have noticed that when Obama's Teleprompter miscues he tends to babble incoherently as if splashing around but drowning in verbiage for Many people have noticed that when Obama's Teleprompter miscues he tends to babble incoherently as if splashing around but drowning in verbiage for long uncomfortable moments until he regains his bearings and his prompter is restored. Now, that's patently ridiculous, but this has caused a lot of people to suspect that those moments are quite revealing, and to remark he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. These people that are critical of Obama cite the empty phrases he persistently uses and which are picked up by his admirers and claim those remarks are vacuous. They say there's only so much mileage one can expect to get from phrases like, "eight years of Bush's failed economic policies," before you need to specify exactly which free-market policies Bush supported that are the ones that failed. And that eventually you're going to have to explain your role in pressing for the strengthening of the Community Reinvestment Act and your association with organizations like Acorn which agitate at street level to increase loans to people with no hope of paying back such loans. Whenever these people criticize Obama this rudely and unfairly, I counter that Bush has supported tax benefits for companies that sent jobs overseas. And do you know what these mean-spirited stubborn people say? It's ridiculous, but they say it anyway, they go, "Oh what? Would it be better to encourage businesses with higher taxes, then?" Then these people continue, and I can't believe this, but here's what they say, they go, "Obama supports open borders that lax attitude toward our immigration laws invites cheap labor to flood the country in large numbers that undercuts jobs in this country, and that's what actually supports businesses and makes things bad for local labor," as if trying to change the subject. Then they bang on further about the CRA forcing banks by law to make loans to people unqualified to pay them while simultaneously driving up the cost of housing through increased demand for houses that these loans are expected to purchase. They talk about a bubble, and economic bubble that they describe as the difference between the rise in cost of living and the bulging rise in cost of housing as a bubble, they used to be equal before the CRA and now there's a gigantic bubble. A bubble! Sheesh, these people! I can't believe what all these people are saing. They keep filling my head with pure crap about our crisis being fundamentally about well-meaning but misguided and anti-capitalistic social engineering and not about free-wheeling anything goes Wall Street profiteering. Can you believe that crap? These people insist, positively insist, that it was government action that got us here in the first place and government action can only make it worse. It's as if they they don't trust government or politicians at all!

That's what other people say, they sure do. See what I put up with?

But all of this crazy talk that other people say, but not me, has caused great unbearable tension in my mind which could only be relieved by producing a pop-up card and mailing it to my sister-in-law for her birthday. You can see the product of this tremendous tension and how it was relieved, in a lengthy photo essay with no words here, if that sort of distraction interests you, and if for a moment you care to take your mind off all the incredibly stupid things other people say.long uncomfortable moments until he regains his bearings and his prompter is restored. Now, that's patently ridiculous, but this has caused a lot of people to suspect that those moments are quite revealing, and to remark he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. These people that are critical of Obama cite the empty phrases he persistently uses and which are picked up by his admirers and claim those remarks are vacuous. They say there's only so much mileage one can expect to get from phrases like, "eight years of Bush's failed economic policies," before you need to specify exactly which free-market policies Bush supported that are the ones that failed. And that eventually, you're going to have to explain your role in pressing the strengthening of the Community Reinvestment Act and your association with organizations like Acorn which agitate at street level to increase loans to people with no hope of paying back such loans. Whenever these people criticize Obama this rudely and unfairly, I counter that Bush has supported tax benefits for companies that sent jobs overseas. And do you know what these mean-spirited stubborn people say? It's ridiculous, but they say it anyway, they go, "Oh what? Would it be better to encourage businesses with higher taxes, then?" Then these people continue, and I can't believe this, but here's what they say, they go, "Obama supports open borders that invites cheap labor into the country in large numbers that undercuts jobs in this country," as if trying to change the subject. Then they bang on further about the CRA forcing banks by law to make loans to people unqualified to pay them while simultaneously driving up the cost of housing through increased demand that those loans are expected to purchase. Sheesh, these people! That it's well-meaning but misguided and anti-capitalistic social engineering that's at the core of the problem and not free-wheeling anything goes Wall Street profiteering. Can you believe that crap?

That's what other people say, they sure do. See what I put up with?

But all of this stuff other people say has caused great unbearable tension in my mind which could only be relieved by producing a pop-up card and mailing it to my sister-in-law for her birthday. You can see the product of this tremendous tension and how it was relieved, in a lengthy photo essay with no words here, if that sort of distraction interests you, and if for a moment you care to take your mind off all the incredibly stupid things other people say, but certainly not me.; 10/2/08, 10:07 AM
Anonymous said...: Some people forget history much too quickly. I wonder if any anti-Palin liberals have taken the time to research the biography of LBJ. He didn't have a MA, and he was a Southern Baptist who later became a Christadelphian

Show me any records of a controversy surrounding his beliefs.; 10/2/08, 10:09 AM
Anonymous said...: Oh, yeah, and LBJ graduated from a State College...imagine that...; 10/2/08, 10:10 AM
Chip Ahoy said...: Many people have noticed that when Obama's Teleprompter miscues he tends to babble incoherently as if splashing around but drowning in verbiage for long uncomfortable moments until he regains his bearings and his prompter is restored. Now, that's patently ridiculous, but this has caused a lot of people to suspect that those moments are quite revealing, and to remark he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. These people that are critical of Obama cite the empty phrases he persistently uses and which are picked up by his admirers and claim those remarks are vacuous. They say there's only so much mileage one can expect to get from phrases like, "eight years of Bush's failed economic policies" before you need to specify exactly which free-market policies Bush supports that are the ones that failed and that eventually you're going to have to explain your role in pressing for the strengthening of the Community Reinvestment Act and your association with organizations like Acorn which agitate at street level to increase loans to people with no hope of paying back such loans.

Whenever these people criticize Obama this rudely and unfairly, I counter that Bush has supported tax benefits for companies that sent jobs overseas. And do you know what these mean-spirited stubborn people say? It's ridiculous, but they say it anyway, they go, "Oh what? Would it be better to encourage businesses with higher taxes, then?" Then these people continue, and I can't believe this, but here's what they say, they go, "Obama supports open borders that lax attitude toward our immigration laws invites cheap labor to flood the country that undercuts jobs for labor in this country, and that is the thing that actually gives advantage to businesses over labor," as if trying to change the subject. Then they bang on further about the CRA forcing banks, by law, to make loans to people unqualified to pay them while simultaneously driving up the cost of housing by increasing demand for houses that those loans that can't be afforded are expected to finance. They talk vaguely about a bubble, and economic bubble, that they describe as the difference between the rise in cost of living and a bigg-ass bulge in the rise iof cost of housing as a bubble. They try to convince me those two lines on a graph used to be equal before the CRA , but after the CRA those two lines separate widely and that what they call a bubble. A bubble! Sheesh, these people! I can't believe what all these people are saing. They keep filling my head with pure crap about our crisis being fundamentally about well-meaning but misguided and anti-capitalistic social engineering and not about free-wheeling anything-goes Wall Street profiteering. Can you believe that crap? These people insist, positively insist, that it was government action that got us here in the first place and government action can only make it worse. It's as if they they don't trust government or politicians at all!

That's what other people say, they sure do. See what I put up with?

But all of this crazy talk that other people say, but not me, has caused great unbearable tension in my mind which could only be relieved by producing a pop-up card and mailing it to my sister-in-law for her birthday. You can see the product of this tremendous tension and how it was relieved, in a lengthy photo essay with no words here, if that sort of distraction interests you, and if for a moment you care to take your mind off all the incredibly stupid things other people say.; 10/2/08, 10:20 AM
Triangle Man said...: An Edjamikated Redneck said...

Sorry Friends; I appear to awoken an Astroturf farmer.

Hey, sorry, I didn't realize you took your quips so seriously.; 10/2/08, 10:21 AM
Ruth Anne Adams said...: Reader! Hurray! I'm for the other team!

Safe travels!

/end off-topic; 10/2/08, 10:30 AM
Sofa King said...: Chip Ahoy, is your teleprompter malfunctioning?; 10/2/08, 10:37 AM
MadisonMan said...: I bet Slow Joe Biden did not have a passport until he got to the Senate.

Instead of slighting the man to make a point, why not look it up?

He met his 1st wife in the Bahamas. Did one need a passport to go there in the 1964? I don't know.

I doubt he travelled much before his Senate election, though, since he had 3 small children at home at the time.; 10/2/08, 10:38 AM
bagoh20 said...: Candidates like all other job applicants can say anything...anything, and even say it poorly. It is really irrelevant. I've been a successful executive for 25 years and hired 100's of people. I still get it wrong sometimes, but I have learned that what people have done in the past is the only reliable indicator of what they will do in the future. McCain and Palin have both commanded organizations of people who had objectives and responsibilities. They both did it successfully and honorably with records that are respected by the people affected. Neither Obama nor Biden have done this. In fact they have been followers trying to find the best seat on buses driven by others in Chicago and DC. This difference is the defining factor for people who only care about how well this job will get done. If you want change and reform, and if you want someone senior and someone fresh, these two are as good as it gets among the political stock available. Obama/Biden may do a fine job, but there is nothing to suggest it. Despite the obvious flaws the choice is simple.; 10/2/08, 10:40 AM
Unknown said...: Doyle could receive at least a minimal amount of respect here if there was the slightest possibility that anyone believed he would say the exact same things about Palin if she were the Democrat VP choice, (assuming she passed the Democrat litmus test requiring pro-choice views).

But Doyle, your hypocrisy will always shine through. That of course, is why you're always so angry, and can't even begin to comment in a reasoned manner.

How sad. You probably have several things of value to share. Pity your character prevents you from doing so.; 10/2/08, 10:40 AM
MadisonMan said...: I've been able to make my own grilled-cheese sandwich and tomato soup for decades now.

Ditto. But I tell you, my son would rather go hungry and be an absolute crank than actually make himself a peanut butter sandwich for lunch. What a lazy boy!

I hope to get him to do some cooking stuff in the next 6 years before he leaves town.; 10/2/08, 10:41 AM
William said...: Thanks very much for a welcome post....If the only thing I knew about Sarah Palin were the worst moments of her worst interviews played in a relentless loop, I too would have doubts about her. She is not a lawyer. She does not know how to speak of things about which she has minimal knowledge with an air of assurance and authority. There's a kind of sincerity to her moments of clumsiness and hesitation that plays well against the cunning and malice of the media....The media ignored and then exculpated the prayers of Obama in the church of an ignorant bigot. This makes their wish to discover any idiosyncratic belief in Palin's church despicable....McCain and Obama are acting out some kind of grim Oedipal drama where they wish to supplant or surpass their fathers. I get the sense that Palin entered public life because she thought it was fun and an adventure. She communicated that in her acceptance speech. In the interviews, she is sometimes as wary as a patient in a dentist's chair. I hope in the debate tonight, win or lose, she returns to that sense of fun. All the other candidates are pallbearers.; 10/2/08, 10:43 AM
former law student said...: Ha ha ha. I get it. What a hilarious idea for political humor! You pick a religion that the candidate has some past relationship to, then you pick some aspect of it that seems ridiculous to a cloddish nonbeliever, then you attribute that trait to the candidate.

I was surprised how rapidly Sloanasaurus demonstrated Ann's thesis (in Comment No. 2):

Obama sat through 20 years of white hating speeches by the Rev. Wright - a man Obama called his spiritual mentor.

Candidate Obama was formerly associated with the Trinity United Church of Christ. Pastor Wright's anti-racist tirades seem ridiculous to those who assume that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 ended anti-black racism forever. Then you attribute Wright's trait of making anti-racist tirades to candidate Obama.

Like most black churches, Obama's church is pentecostal- they speak in tongues.

Really? The United Church of Christ is a pentecostal church? The Dayton, Ohio UCC seminary Pastor Wright went to was founded by Bishop Wright, father of Wilbur and Orville of airplane fame.

This is copied from the Google 2001 version of the Trinity Church website (http://web.archive.org/web/20010708095632/www.tucc.org/aboutus/tenpointvision.htm):

TEN POINT VISION

Trinity United Church of Christ

A Worshipping Church

A Spirit-Filled Church

A Praying Church

...

"Spirit Filled" is the term that churches use to convey "pentecostal" and "speaking in tongues".

"Spirit-filled" = glossolalia? That's kind of a stretch. I don't buy it on these facts.; 10/2/08, 10:45 AM
former law student said...: McCain and Palin have both commanded organizations of people who had objectives and responsibilities.

While Gov. Palin's career track is admirably meteoric, Sen. McCain has been stuck in the same job for the past quarter-century. The last time he applied for promotion, his own people preferred the callow W. two-to-one. McCain's time is obviously passed. Call it age discrimination, but I call it common sense.; 10/2/08, 10:53 AM
Shanna said...: Have any of you ever been to a Pentacostal service where the preacher falls down on the floor while speaking in tongues and writhing around? This is not mainstream, and yes, it is ridiculous.

It is my understand that Sarah Palin went to a church that was an assembly of God. This church is basically an offshoot of full on Pentacostals (never been to the Pentacostal church, but these are the people who have to wear dresses and never cut their hair). The AofG is just a teensy bit more active then a baptist chruch. Really. Maybe some folks will raise their hands or close their eyes, but it's not snake handling or craziness, at least not at the ones I've been too.

There has been a definately element of hatred for Christians and Christianity in a lot of the Sarah Palin coverage. I've found it rather sad. You can't say religion is ok, but actually believing is not. That's what I hear from a lot of people.; 10/2/08, 11:04 AM
Chip Ahoy said...: Hold on now. Hang on. dxiip=dklikls. kl;kksk "boilkfl slkeenkl' ,,,,=klld" Now hold on. Just a minute now. lkelsk,... skjkin.seddde. Eight years of Bush's failed economic policies. ..,.;dk,,sl..xlk.do.; 10/2/08, 11:13 AM
KCFleming said...: " But I tell you, my son would rather go hungry and be an absolute crank than actually make himself a peanut butter sandwich for lunch. What a lazy boy!"

Sounds like my daughter.
She didn't learn to cook until college and living in her own apartment and Pop Tarts and pizza had lost their appeal.; 10/2/08, 11:30 AM
bagoh20 said...: People can point out problems with all the candidates, but it is a choice between two tickets only. That's it. If you have problems with a candidate you have to compare those defects with the other choice. This is the only honest, smart analysis. The rest is sniping.

Any shortcoming of one side should always be compared with the alternative, otherwise it's flinging poo.; 10/2/08, 11:36 AM
Q. said...: Barack Obama "talks like a prophet, making grand pronouncements that prompt nasty quips about whether the former Muslim thinks he's Muhammad."; 10/2/08, 11:40 AM
knox said...: Obama's anger is nothing compared to the delusions of those who honestly and truly believe that Jesus is coming back to take the Elect to heaven and leave the rest of us behind. And that Jesus can come back at any time (this afternoon, over dinner tonight...) so we are living in the end times. To these people, what do we have to lose by bombing Iran? It might just be what we need to do to bring Jesus back more quickly.

Seriously. This is what we're dealing with in Sarah Palin. It doesn't just seem ridiculous. It is DANGEROUS.

Thanks for the laugh.

I love the idea of angry, marauding Pentecostals. Ponytails and denim skirts flying. Sneaking around in their Keds.

Seriously. This is the kind of statement that makes democrats go apeshit--when they hear it said about radical Muslims. Who actually *do* blow people up in order to go to heaven.; 10/2/08, 11:45 AM
DaLawGiver said...: Doyle said,

That's something elitists do, and she's no elitist! (Even though she owns a plane and went to school in Hawaii).

That's an interesting point Doyle brought up. It reminded me of my three years in Fairbanks where some suburb communities are planned around private air strips. It was cool to see people literally taxi up to their front door.

I think today about 1 in 80 Alaskans are licensed pilots. Delaware is number 2 with about 1 in 160.

And guess what the favorite vacation spot for Alaskans is. Think pineapple.; 10/2/08, 12:15 PM
Hector Owen said...: By request of reader_iam at 9:51: The Mom Song, by Anita Renfroe. Complete lyrics in the sidebar, click "more info."; 10/2/08, 12:17 PM
krylovite said...: You pick a religion that the candidate has some past relationship to

You know that Palin still attends Juneau Christian Center, a Pentecostal church in Juneau, right? If you know that fact, you should change "past relationship" to "current relationship."

then you pick some aspect of it that seems ridiculous to a cloddish nonbeliever

Speaking in tongues seems ridiculous to rational people, not cloddish nonbelievers. You ought to correct that part of your sentence too.

What's the matter, Michelle? You don't think it would be very nice to use your comic device against him [Obama] and against Muslims?

Is this supposed to be logical? Since Obama was never a Muslim, it doesn't make any sense to use the "comic device" against Muslims.

Professor Althouse, with all due respect, your post has critical factual and logical errors.; 10/2/08, 12:30 PM
krylovite said...: Welcome to the misinformation center - Sloanasaurus will be your guide today!

It's my understanding that Palin left the Pentecostal church some years ago.

Your understanding is wrong.

Compare this to Obama leaving Islam some years ago.

Obama was never a Muslim.

So if we attribute pentecostal ills to Palin, it's legitimate to attribute islamic ills to Obama.

What other fun conclusions can you draw from the crap that you pull out of your ass?

Like Polygamy, terrorism, degenerate treatment of women etc..

Hey, that reads like a laundry list of "ills" that you could attribute to Christianity! Isn't it neat how people can identify flaws in their neighbors that they can't see in themselves?; 10/2/08, 12:40 PM
Shanna said...: If she were the full on scary pentacostal she would never cut her hair or wear skirts (and even they are not at all scary). The Assembly of God and other off shoots are really tame. It's ridiculous that people have grabbed onto this pentacostal name and gone nuts with it.; 10/2/08, 12:55 PM
Cedarford said...: An Edjamikated Redneck said...
Doyle, or is that only the folks selected for Harvard or Yale have are not morons?

Sorry but it was the harvard and Yale attorneys and MBAs who handed us the current financial mess we're in.

If you look at the key players, you will see some Harvard men and Yalies, but the predominant feature of the lot is people like Phil Gramm, Dick Armey, Kenneth Langone, Charlie Rangel, Maxine Walters, Chris Dodd, Ronald Reagan, Tom DeLay that formulated the great destructive theories on the Left and Right that led to America's near fiscal collapse coming from average, even podunk colleges.
The head of Wall Street when much of the destructive seeds were planted in the years of Reaganism and Dems establishing CRA and Fanie and Freddie as their turf , Dick Grasso, didn't even have a college degree.

And the "flip this house!" crowd, tend to be wealthy speculators or handyman couples with no professional college degree that became enthralled with "no money down" and being paper millionaires by the 4th or 5th house they got backed by taxpayers. (Think the whole crowd suing in Kelo, the sacred cause of libertarians, whose philosophy is contributory to this fiasco).

Even the Wall Street Jewish financiers, and various Mick, Italian, and Jewish "Masters of the Universe"? Many just started with just a City, Bronx, New York State college degree, made their first million before age 25 playing the middleman in transactions and devising new exciting financial instruments - and never looked back...

Until now.

Nor is blame solely centered in US politics in both parties, Wall Street, and greedy home flippers.
Countries like the UK and Russia were also playing this game...
-----------------
lawgiver - Doyle said,

That's something elitists do, and she's no elitist! (Even though she owns a plane and went to school in Hawaii).

Doyle likely has never been to Alaska. There are many towns and settlements with no road access because:

1. Many valleys are separated by mountains with no passes.
2. Because Alaska is so geologically active, and much of the bedrock is unstable shale (also explaining the fuel riches we can't drill for) - building "safe" roads and bridges meeting Fed standards can be prohibitively expensive.
3. Where many roads have been planned for decades, they are stalled by lawsuits in the Lower 48 because they cross Fed lands or wetlands.

That leaves much of Alaska dependent on air and sea transport. Up in Alaska, many high schools treat ocean transport & flyer's ed like drivers ed, and many people with a marine or aviation pilot's license in remote towns have never driven a car. A snowmbile or ATV, yes, but not a car.
Quite a treat to take a hop with a 17-year old pilot still in HS with a contract for flying people and parts from a main AF Base to an undisclosed satellite facility...Waiting for school to let the kid out..; 10/2/08, 1:20 PM
reader_iam said...: thanks, hector.; 10/2/08, 1:26 PM
Michael McNeil said...: Shanna said:
If she were the full on scary pentacostal she would never cut her hair or wear skirts (and even they are not at all scary). The Assembly of God and other off shoots are really tame. It's ridiculous that people have grabbed onto this pentacostal name and gone nuts with it.

Remember when the same folks were endlessly portraying G.W.B. as an end-times believing — sure to push us all into Armageddon — “Christianist” extremist? Bush, whose religion is Methodism? Speaking as one who was raised Methodist, I can inform everybody who hasn't encountered such “extremists” that it's one of the most liberal, wishy-washy Protestant faiths.; 10/2/08, 1:30 PM
krylovite said...: Remember when the same folks were endlessly portraying G.W.B. as an end-times believing

The same folks? Who are you talking about, or are you using "same folks" in a sort of generic, meaningless way?; 10/2/08, 1:38 PM
Michael McNeil said...: The same kind of liberal-leftist partisans who endlessly attacked Bush's supposed Christian extremism then and are similarly attacking Palin's now. People like yourself, “krylovite” — and of course you would seek to portray noticing same as being “meaningless” — which could characterize a large proportion of your arguments.; 10/2/08, 1:59 PM
Beth said...: I attended a few differnent Assembly of God churches for several years in my teens, and yes, there was speaking in tongues, dancing in the spirit, casting out of demons, all that stuff. No snake handling - that's a whole different situation. Assembly of God is fairly mainstream, but no, it's not your average Protestantism. I was raised in the Southern Baptist church and while the two weren't that different, the AoG are charistmatic Christians, and I found them much more insular, prone to see things as "of the world" as opposed to "of God."; 10/2/08, 2:01 PM
krylovite said...: The same kind of liberal-leftist partisans who endlessly attacked Bush's supposed Christian extremism

So you can't actually name any of these "same folks," eh?

In other words, "same folks" is a load of crap.

That's what I thought. :o); 10/2/08, 2:06 PM
Michael McNeil said...: I actually couldn't care less what you think is a “load of crap,” krylovite.; 10/2/08, 2:20 PM
Spread Eagle said...: Roughly 3% of Iraq's population are/were Christian [or 800,000] over half of them fled to Syria for "safe haven" after we liberated them. For example.

Named Hussein? For example?; 10/2/08, 2:51 PM
krylovite said...: I actually couldn't care less what you think is a “load of crap,” krylovite.

Hey Mikey, I gave you two chances to name some of the "same folks" you are accusing of unfair accusations. You couldn't. Check out the word HYPOCRITE in the dictionary sometime.

Please don't whine about getting called out on your bullshit. Learn to take your defeats graciously. :o); 10/2/08, 2:59 PM
Jim said...: re: Obama being a Muslim

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01u33pL9Ns06D/340x.jpg

20 months ago: This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro into the Catholic school made by his step-father, Lolo Soetoro. The document lists Barry Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen, born on August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, and shows his Muslim step-father listed the boy's religion as Islam.(AP Photo/ Tatan Syuflana)

Now, you can argue that he has never been a Muslim since he was old enough to make a choice and that he since chose to become a Christian.

But enough with this "Obama was never a Muslim" garbage. His stepfather says he was. He registered him in school as one.

You wanted proof. I provided a document - not an innuendo, not a rumor - that says he was. You have anything other than Obama's lies that says differently?; 10/2/08, 3:16 PM
Jim said...: krylovite -

Your inability to use Google or honestly recall the events of the last 8 years doesn't prove your point - only your own laziness and/or dishonesty.; 10/2/08, 3:18 PM
former law student said...: Quite a treat to take a hop with a 17-year old pilot still in HS with a contract for flying people and parts from a main AF Base to an undisclosed satellite facility...Waiting for school to let the kid out..

Quite illegal, too, as you have to be 18 to get the commercial pilot certificate that allows you to fly for pay.

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01u33pL9Ns06D/340x.jpg

20 months ago: This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro into the Catholic school made by his step-father, Lolo Soetoro. The document lists Barry Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen, born on August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, and shows his Muslim step-father listed the boy's religion as Islam.(AP Photo/ Tatan Syuflana)
...
His stepfather says he was. He registered him in school as one.

The school record proves nothing. The entries for citizenship and religion were made in a different handwriting from "Barry's" name, so they were most likely made made by the school registrar/secretary/Principal, not Mr. Soetoro. Because I am familiar with this tribe, I would expect that she did it sua sponte, not considering that the child (even a step-child) of an Indonesian Muslim was anything other than Indonesian and Muslim. Because Mr. Soetoro simply wanted to enroll the kid in school, I suspect that if he had any misgivings he just let them slide.; 10/2/08, 4:19 PM
George M. Spencer said...: Obama schambama....

"Sarah Palin engaged in an extramarital affair with her husband's former business partner [Brad], according to multiple sources, including three members of his family," blazes the National Enquirer's new cover story.

It's a scream. You have to get to the very, very end of the story to find out that Sarah was lonely while Todd was away fishing or killing things, and she had long conversations with Brad who was "a good listener."

That's it!

(PS..Brad Pitt uses hand lotion. Soupy Sales is sick, and Paul Newman isn't well either.); 10/2/08, 4:42 PM
Fletch said...: Apathetic-

That's part of the reason why FDR is so beloved.

Anybody that personally remembers that speech is 90+, and probably can't even remember to take their medicine for Alzheimer's. Anyone else is just "admiring the oratory"... (hmm... sounds familiar!)

It's all a big, big pep talk as he talks about how lucky America still is and how bountiful nature is.

How lucky was it to have FDR as our President?

We went through two different "depressions" in his first 6 years in office('32-'34 (25% lower GDP) and '37-'38 (16% lower GDP)- and he also killed 1 million+ Americans before he was done.

(The Lancet also estimated we killed 800 thousand Germans and more than 2.5 million Japanese.

"If it weren't for bad luck,
I'd have no luck at all.
Gloom, despair, and agony on me."; 10/2/08, 5:36 PM
Fletch said...: Apathetic-

That's part of the reason why FDR is so beloved.

Anybody that personally remembers that speech is 90+, and probably can't even remember to take their medicine for Alzheimer's. Anyone else is just "admiring the oratory"... (hmm... sounds familiar!)

It's all a big, big pep talk as he talks about how lucky America still is and how bountiful nature is.

How lucky was it to have FDR as our President?

We went through two different "depressions" in his first 6 years in office('32-'34 (25% lower GDP) and '37-'38 (16% lower GDP)- and he also killed 1 million+ Americans before he was done.

(The Lancet also estimated we killed 800 thousand Germans and more than 2.5 million Japanese.)

"If it weren't for bad luck,
I'd have no luck at all.
Gloom, despair, and agony on me."; 10/2/08, 5:37 PM
Jim said...: The school record proves nothing.

Says you. You make assumptions on assumptions in order to avoid admitting the obvious. The other, equally valid possibility, is that the school filled in the other portions while the stepfather filled in the remaining portions.

The document stands without ever having been challenged as to its contents, yet you want to dismiss it away with the wave of a hand.

This document has been public for going on 2 years, yet the Obama campaign has never challenged its authenticity nor its contents. If it were materially false in any way, there is no reason to believe that he would not have provided contradictory arguments/evidence. He has not done so, and his inaction speaks volumes.

Your "suspicions" not withstanding, there is absolutely zero evidence to support your uneducated guesswork. You seem to think "because I said so" is sufficient evidence. It's not, and as a "former law student" you know that it's not even in the ballpark of sufficiency.

Bottom line: the document shows what the document shows, and you have no factual basis to refute it.; 10/2/08, 5:45 PM
Jim said...: fls -

If he was born a Christian, there would be baptismal records. Where are they?

I repeat: a child isn't responsible for the religion his parents provide him, and if he has chosen differently as an adult then I have no reason to believe that he is today anything other than the Christian he claims to be. However, the actual evidence indicates that he was not always a Christian, and he has never produced a single document to prove otherwise.

I'd accept a baptismal record as sufficient refutation of the school document. Can you produce it?; 10/2/08, 5:49 PM
Fletch said...: Doyle (9:16)-

All that's required to convert is to say "There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is His prophet."

Really?

1)Obama's step-father" did enroll him as a "Muslim" in his Indonesian school.

2)Obama can recite the 'Call to Prayer' in "first-rate Arabic" accent- which includes the exact words that you readily admit are considered a "conversion" to Islam...

Obviously, Obama is a Muslim!

Does America know this?; 10/2/08, 5:51 PM
Fletch said...: Doyle (9:32)-

Can you guys refresh my memory on the benefits of having a (potential) president who doesn't know s--- about s---?

She won't be a Nixon, a Carter, or a Wilson. (given the 'consensus' these were three of the smartest Presidents in the 20th century.); 10/2/08, 5:54 PM
Fletch said...: DTL-

Actually, I recall about 1046 posts from Ann Althouse absolutely disparaging Obama and his Church.

Why not?

The only two demographics to increase their incidence of AIDS infections over the last ten years are 'blacks' and 'gays'.

As Forrest Gump said, "Stupid is as stupid does"- and what could be possibly be dumber than an infected gay supporting a black candidate for President? (see Andi Sullivan); 10/2/08, 6:06 PM
Fletch said...: reader iam-

The Mom song. (I haven't looked ahead to see if this has already been linked...) My mom in the early seventies was simply, "Go play in traffic..." :o)

Oh! Ohio! Hey, we just crossed the state line, while listening to "Interjections!" (by Schoolhouse Rock)! Wow!

"I hope and pray that they will,
but today I am still, just a "criminally pork-filled deficient bailout"
bill."; 10/2/08, 6:25 PM
Beth said...: If he was born a Christian, there would be baptismal records. Where are they?

Not necessarily. Many protestants don't baptize babies; they wait for a profession of faith and a repenting of sin, which can't come before a child reaches an age of consciousness and responsibliity. I don't know what the UCC practice is, but Baptists don't baptize babies.; 10/2/08, 7:40 PM
cookasia said...: "Regardless of all this, no criticism of Palin comes close to the fact that Obama sat through 20 years of white hating speeches by the Rev. Wright - a man Obama called his spiritual mentor."

Sloanasaurus: Amen. Let's hope that someone finally nails BO on this rather salient point.; 10/5/08, 7:47 AM
cookasia said...: "Regardless of all this, no criticism of Palin comes close to the fact that Obama sat through 20 years of white hating speeches by the Rev. Wright - a man Obama called his spiritual mentor."

Sloanasaurus: Amen. Let's hope that someone finally nails BO on this rather salient point.; 10/5/08, 7:48 AM