"And I actually always thought of the military as an ennobling and, you know, honorable option. But keep in mind that I graduated in 1979. The Vietnam War had come to an end. We weren't engaged in an active military conflict at that point. And so, it's not an option that I ever decided to pursue."Because, back in the Vietnam days, that's when young guys felt especially motivated to sign up to fight. Mmm hmmm.
September 7, 2008
"You know, I actually did" -- Obama actually did consider serving in the military.
So he said, when asked George Stephanopoulos today, on television.
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I myself seriously considered becoming a mime.
**giggle**
I voted "hell no."
But the truth is, neither did I.
O! is so full of shit.
He is taking pages out of the Hillary Clinton Cocktail Party Lie Book. Available at Amazon.
I wanted to be an astronaut.
I wanted to be a Marine.
I was named after Sir Edmond Hillary.
I dodged bullets in Bosnia.
I saved the free world for working women.
BTW, he probably would not have made it in the military. There is no MOS for community organizer.
He was for enlisting before he was against it.
Obama's pants are a raging inferno.
"We weren't engaged in an active military conflict at that point. And so, it's not an option that I ever decided to pursue."
Many people don't know this, but the military only exists when there's a war on.
O! also forgot that the late 70's Army was so underfunded and undertrained and underpaid, that it was known then as the "hollow Army", which was a result of our willing defeat in Vietnam and the resulting plunge in Morale. NCOs that were in at the time described it as open dope smoking and long hair; no one was enforcing standards because they couldn't get people into the Army for nothing.
But, then again maybe the doper Army was attractive to O!
Wasn't Selective Service implemented in 1980?
It's the truth! He mentioned it 6 times in his first memoir, and 12 in his second! Look it up!
He is so full of himself that he is starting to believe his own lies. Next thing you know he will be telling us that he and Hillary tried to join the same day. And they were dodging sniper fire. And that the only reason he couldn't get in was because his bowling score was so lousy.
Keep on talkin', Barry, I am sure you think you are doing a good job.
Uh. This is total bullshit. Barack's equivalent of Dukakis in a tank.
He's saying that if there had been war on, he would have enlisted.
Obama has never been in a close election before.
Little things matter.
This may seem to be a little thing but it's a big mistake.
Can you imagine how much a statement like this will piss off John McCain? (Or is that what Obama is trying to do? No, he's smart, but not that clever.)
Normally I'd say who cares about military service, not relevant. However, considering how Democrats used the "chickenhawk" smear in 2004, I say go after him on this.
Hmm, after graduating from college, I joined the Air Force and headed to Officers Training School in 1980 so I know what kind of people were joining back then.
Barry Obama was not one of those people.
Whatever the truth or falsity, this is the epitome of one of the most ridiculous liberal caricatures. That is, it's all about the right intent.
Gawd, his chief strategists must have cringed when they heard him let go with that one.
My left nut.
Of course at Daily Kos they're outraged by the insinuation about Barry's patriotism, or lack thereof. However, didn't they question Bush's patriotism endlessly with "chickenhawk"?
Barack Obama is BSing again. Selective service wasn't reinstated until 1980.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_Service_System
Palin tells documented lies and keeps repeating them after they are exposed, Ann doesn't seem to mind. Obama makes a statement that is completely innocuous, unverifiable, but credulous.
Liberal or conservative--he was certainly in a demographic that may have considered the military in passing. He doesn't claim that he considered the military seriously, just that he respected the military then, and now, and didn't dismiss the possibility out of hand.
I am the same age and demographic as Barack, and several of my friends saw the military as a viable and attractive option after high school. Some of them were actually, gasp!, quite liberal.
And sgt ted--I love how those of you who claim to have such respect for the military are so ready to disdain it when it is politically expedient.
freder - I'm still waiting to see the "documentation" on Palin's lies. All we have are liberal smears. Yes, you are part of that smear campaign that is horribly backfiring on the Democrats. Why not just ignore her?
Barack Obama is BSing again. Selective service wasn't reinstated until 1980.
Registration began again for those born in 1961 in the spring or summer of 1979. I remember going down to the post office to register. So you do not know what the hell you are talking about. He did have to register.
Let me elaborate.
In June, Obama spoke at the commencement of Wesleyan University, my alma mater. He spoke about public service, giving back to the community, as an obligation of the young. He gave many examples of ways to serve the nation. Military service was not mentioned.
This was of course tuned to his audience, overwhelmingly liberal, anti-war and anti-military.
I had previously seen Obama speak at a high school in Beaufort, South Carolina, where I live. There are many military retirees in Beaufort, and two important bases: Parris Island, the east coast Marine recruit training facility, and a large Marine Corps air base.
Obama was introduced at his speech by a retiring Marine Corps Sargent Major. He made sure to have other military on the stage, and made many references to the honor of military service in his speech.
Two audiences, two entirely different approaches.
Disqualifying for the Presidency? No, of course not.
But it is the old politics, politics as usual.
What does this guy really believe?
No one knows. Maybe not even him.
Obama is the ultimate panderer. Is that "new politics" or the politics as usual. Where's the hopenchange?
Obama's pants are a raging inferno.
O
Obama considered serving in the military? You have got to be shitting me. Now maybe, just maybe, he is telling the truth. But does anyone NOT think this is pandering pure and simple? Show of hands please?
So gathering from his comments he only wants to serve when closing with and destroying the enemy by close combat fire and maneuver. No fight no serve?
And he is going to put his "thinking about serving" up against John McCain's experience? ummmmmm, only a chicago machine politician could believe that.
What a pathetic empty suit this guy is--he is the face of the democratic party
I'm still waiting to see the "documentation" on Palin's lies.
None are so blind as those who will not see.
There is plenty of documentation that she was not against the bridge to nowhere (she actually supported it during her campaign for governor). When it was canceled (by Congress, not the state), she still kept the money. As for being against earmarks (and has never done anything to stop them), she is simply not--unless of course they don't benefit Alaska or Wasilla.
And while it is true that she tried to sell the state's plane on ebay--it didn't sell and ended up selling through a broker at a loss. But of course, it was McCain, not Palin, who inflated that story into the plane actually being sold on ebay at a profit.
What kind of documentation would you like?
Alex said...
Obama is the ultimate panderer.
Careful there. you can be accused of racism. All Black men are not panderers as all Black men are not pimps. All Black men are not dope dealers peddling Hopium to our kids either.
Registration began again for those born in 1961 in the spring or summer of 1979. I remember going down to the post office to register. So you do not know what the hell you are talking about. He did have to register.
When Obama BS, his supporters have to BS to defend him.
1-102. Persons born in calendar year 1960 shall present themselves for registration on any of the six days beginning Monday, July 21, 1980.
1-103. Persons born in calendar year 1961 shall present themselves for registration on any of the six days beginning Monday, July 28, 1980.
1-104. Persons born in calendar year 1962 shall present themselves for registration on any of the six days beginning Monday, January 5, 1981.
This is verbatim from the act itself.
And sgt ted--I love how those of you who claim to have such respect for the military are so ready to disdain it when it is politically expedient.
He did not disparage the military. He told the truth. Were you in the military back then? Do you know what it was like? Or is it your opinion gained from wikidikipikisiki?
The military was on the verge of falling apart, especially with the aid and assistence of the traitor Jimmy Carter, who gutted it alongwith our intelligence capabilities. Morale was in the toilet. They could not keep people in, even career officers.
There is a difference between being misinformed and informed.
There is plenty of documentation that she was not against the bridge to nowhere (she actually supported it during her campaign for governor). When it was canceled (by Congress, not the state), she still kept the money. As for being against earmarks (and has never done anything to stop them), she is simply not--unless of course they don't benefit Alaska or Wasilla.
And while it is true that she tried to sell the state's plane on ebay--it didn't sell and ended up selling through a broker at a loss. But of course, it was McCain, not Palin, who inflated that story into the plane actually being sold on ebay at a profit.
What kind of documentation would you like?
In the end, she did canceled the bridge project and directed the money somewhere else. If Congress canceled the project, why would Alaska still got the money? Because of Barack Obama voted for it. You are contradicting yourself
She stated "I put it on ebay" in her speech. Which part of this untrue? She didn't say I sold it on ebay.
Freder: I think you seriously misread SGT Ted's comments--he described very accurately what the army was like in the late 1970s; it was a doper army where officers were afraid to enter the barracks. My career ran from 1961 to 1985, from recruit to Col. I have a bit of perspective and experience with that army. The post viet nam army up till about the time I retired was in seriously bad shape.
Wouldn't cruel neutrality require a "hell yes" option to match "hell no"?
I'd say that this can easily be checked out. The Punahou School has always had a vigorous jr ROTC program, and anyone with any interest in service as an officer after college or enlisted right after graduation from Punahou is encouraged to join jr ROTC as a valuable learning experience and to check out what skills and temperment are needed and if the Punahou student wishes to continue in jr ROTC for credits..(with no service obligation).
Obama was there from 5th grade to 12th.
Did he ever attend a single class of jr ROTC?
Punahou School has had many join military service, and when Obama was there, the contribution of Punahou students in past wars was a prominent part of student history and tradition.
Or did Obama show any interest in the military for financial help (as a financial needs candidate) when at Occidental College and Columbia University - which ban ROTC but allow students to take ROTC elsewhere?
I'm pretty sure Obama was not at all interested in anything military while in college.
I think it is unlikely that he was in any way interested at Punahou, either. Finding he did take jr ROTC courses and drills would bolster Obama's claim of considering military service..just as Hillary was claiming she also considered it when asked..
But I wouldn't hold my breath.
sy - no point in trying to reason with smear merchants.
Wouldn't cruel neutrality require a "hell yes" option to match "hell no"?
Um, its a pun. Ever heard of "hell no, we won't go" chant? I thought Obama supporters make a living protesting wars.
In the end, she did canceled the bridge project and directed the money somewhere else.
She canceled it because it was short of funds and the ensuing shitstorm it created. When she says "I told Congress thanks, but no thanks", it's clearly a lie. She didn't become governor until 13 months after Congress was through with appropriating the earmark. And to tell it 3 times is an insult to anyone's intelligence with access to a computer and google.
Let me say that while perhaps pathetic, I don't find this statement incredible.
In the fall of 1990 I had just transferred to VT (VPI & SU) in Blacksburg, VA, from NYU after my freshman year there. In August we were watching the big down TV and the news came about Saddam moving on Kuwait.
I dug up my friend Jon who had graduated with me and entered West Point. I asked him just about exactly Obama's question: "If I enlist right now, will they send me to Iraq?" Well, perhaps a little less abstract inasmuch as there was an actual war on the offing, but the same idea, ISTM.
He said no, basically. So I abandoned the idea of dropping out and enlisting.
Great pity that I did, perhaps. I sometimes think about it. Not a lot of family support - Dad had not liked his hitch in the early Sixties greatly, though he avoided Vietman through the clever device of a 100% back injury sustained while diving into a pool at Ft. Holabird - but I had always been sympathetic to the idea, personally. Oh well.
So who knows what it means that he said and originally thought it; but it could be true.
"She canceled it because it was short of funds and the ensuing shitstorm it created. When she says "I told Congress thanks, but no thanks", it's clearly a lie. She didn't become governor until 13 months after Congress was through with appropriating the earmark. And to tell it 3 times is an insult to anyone's intelligence with access to a computer and google."
Thanks, but no thanks was not a lie.
You said yourself. SHE CANCELED IT. The bridge was not built. Where is the lie here? My gawd, you guys are really desperate.
What a throw away question!!...I have some silver bullets left, and I'm the Lone Ranger.
I don't know what goes on in Obama's head. Why not believe him? Take it at face value.
Intent means very little. He didn't serve, and that's it. There's no need to delve into something that's unknowable. Just look at what he did. Or didn't do.
In short, so what? I thought about becoming a lawyer. Does that mean anything at all?
No way Obama ever considered joining the military. I can count on 1 finger the number of Ivy League educated African-Americans with whom I served during a 30 year Navy career.
Sgt Ted is correct in his description of the dysfunctional U.S. military of 30 years ago. No spare parts, insufficient maintainance money, insufficient stocks of ordnance, poor enlistment standards and low rates of personnel retention. All of this was overseen by a democrat POTUS and a democrat-controlled congress. Carter not only knew how bad it was, but deliberately avoided changing course until after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Until that point, he and his administration foolishly believed that the USSR was open to rational discussion and diplomatic persuasion.
I absolutely defy anyone to argue otherwise.
Is this the same interview where he starts referring to his Muslim faith?
I only voted "Hell no" because "Are you fucking kidding me?" wasn't an option.
The funniest part of any election season occurs when a democratic presidential candidate tries to show the unwashed masses that he shares their values. Can an Obama duck-hunting photo op be far behind?
Just to clarify: I had thought that joining the army in peacetime was vaguely dishonest for me - probably echoes of European society careering around in my empty young head, where the military was often used as a convenience for idle young hounds of what was then called breeding. Kind of like a Grand Tour of the establishment.
I didn't in fact see the point, for me, of enlisting, outside of combat arms or perhaps intelligence.
Of course my whole plan at the time was to design combat aircraft for those who fought, as with my eyesight I could never fly (the original plan), so I can only say with VP Cheney that I had other priorities at the time. I had a plan, man!
And God had a laugh.
Where is the lie here? My gawd, you guys are really desperate.
I told you. She said she told Congress no thanks, when Congress had already absolved itself of the earmark 13 months before she was governor. That's like Obama going around saying he voted against the war when he wasn't in congress. She didn't cancel the earmark because it wasn't even up for debate when she was governor! She canceled the project because it was short of funds to build.
I told you. She said she told Congress no thanks, when Congress had already absolved itself of the earmark 13 months before she was governor. That's like Obama going around saying he voted against the war when he wasn't in congress. She didn't cancel the earmark becuae it didn't exist! She canceled the project because it was short of funds to build.
garage, you are running around in circles. If the project was canceled by congress, where did the money came from? Then you said it was short on fund. You mean there WAS fund for the "none existence" project in the first place? I thought congress canceled the project? Please make up your mind. ROFL.
"I'm pretty sure Obama was not at all interested in anything military while in college."
By his own account in his memoir Obama was not much interested in college while in college. This is confirmed by has fellow students and teachers at Columbia, who have virtually no recollection of him. He was a part time doper and part time student. He gets big points from me for his honesty about that time, and for his turnaround.
But the notion that he seriously considered military service is laughable.
A wise man would not make the assertion, even if it were true, because it is so implausible and obviously self serving.
Maybe the media won't pick this up and the Republicans will be too afraid that delving into the issue would backfire. If so, Obama is lucky again.
What a stupid thing to say.
Show of hands please?
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I thought about becoming a lawyer. Does that mean anything at all?
Yep, sanity prevailed.
@Sy:
I'm curious to know whether Barry actually fulfilled 1-103. Persons born in calendar year 1961 shall present themselves for registration on any of the six days beginning Monday, July 28, 1980.
Is that a matter of public record?
"She canceled the project because it was short of funds to build." This is correct.
In fact, the project was about $325million short and the state of Alaska had the option of going into it's own pocket for the bridge or re-allocating the federal funds. Palin's decision, not to continue with the bridge, and to spend the alloted money on other infrastructure projects, was very popular with most Alaskans.
However, the Ketchikan-area pols, who would have gained the most from the bridge, were and are not happy and have been whining about Palin ever since.
I find it hard to believe that someone who sought to befriend and associate with members of the raical left during college and his entire adult life has ever considered military service.
The U.S. military represents all that is hated and loathed by the American left.
I call bullshit.
Pho
Knee.
Of course, he never thought to write this in either of his two memoirs.
Sy,
Congress expressly prohibited the use of the allocated funds to be used for the bridge, but allowed Alaska to keep the money so that it could be used for other infrastructure projects.
Alaska (and Palin) did what Congress allowed.
Bishop: I really enjoy working with young people such as yourself down at our new Lutheran Center... Why don't you drop by sometime, eh?
Danny Noonan: I've often thought of entering the Priesthood.
Bishop: Oh, are you a Roman Catholic?
[Danny nods]
Bishop: Oh, then I'm sorry, but I'm afraid you can't come.
Other caddy: I always wanted to be a golf club.
Yes he considered it - once - about two-thirds of the way into a fat doobie of prime Maui Waui. When he stopped cackling, he ordered a pizza - Chicago Style! Then he rolled a bazooka (one-handed!) and settled in for the morning.
Congress expressly prohibited the use of the allocated funds to be used for the bridge, but allowed Alaska to keep the money so that it could be used for other infrastructure projects.
Link please? Was it written in a bill? Why didn't they just pulled the money?
interesting that issue is Obamas claim about considering joining the military, and leftys are trying to change the subject--Garage, Freder...would you like to address Bamb's claim? the more you try to change the subject we would infer that your prefer not to talk about the subject at hand
I'm curious to know whether Barry actually fulfilled 1-103. Persons born in calendar year 1961 shall present themselves for registration on any of the six days beginning Monday, July 28, 1980.
Is that a matter of public record?
It does it matter? Obama recounted he was interested joining the miltary in 1979. Take it up with Obama.
I thought of lots of things, one time or another. I considered Math. I considered Criminal Justice. I actually declared three college majors at one time or another... Electrical Engineering, Political Science, and ART. And I considered military service... I talked to the AF Academy liaison at length, met with him, toured a military facility (they were doing chem warfare training) and got all the forms and information to apply. I decided it would be futile to apply and decided to enroll in AFROTC instead. I did two years of that, got distracted, judged that I really didn't have the attitude necessary to be an officer (and I still think I'm right about that) and quit after field training. Several years later I enlisted and I loved it. But then I chose to have children and separated.
Did Obama *consider* serving in the military?
Probably about the same as I *considered* going into Criminal Justice at one time.
It crossed my mind.
So I voted "hell no."
It does it matter?
Well, out of general curiosity, I would like to know if Obama is in compliance with the law.
The number of unforced errors Obama is making is getting large. And this is the worst possible time, coming on the heels of the GOP convention and its bounce.
That is when you really need to avoid making a mistake that cements the bounce into the status quo. Between this and his misspeak in the same interview, it is just what Obama did not need.
Freder Frederson said...
I'm still waiting to see the "documentation" on Palin's lies.
That is OK Freder, the rest of us are still waiting to see the documentation of Hillary Clinton’s accomplishments and qualifications too.
And we know that Obama was aq community organizer, a product of a corrupt political machine and that is about it.
None are so blind as those who will not see. Eh?
The most interesting thing is that he didn't see the point in joining, since we weren't at war at the time.
If you want to serve, you serve, regardless of peace or war.
There's always a point in serving.
Sy,
Below, I have copied a link to an article that describes the congressional allocation of the bridge money. It's NYT, so it may require a log-in to access. I found the link on a wikipedia article about the Gravina Island Bridge (aka Bridge to Nowhere).
I'm sure that congress cancelled the "bridge to nowhere" due to public outrage over, well, a bridge to nowhere. Money to infrastructure "projects" doesn't attract as much attention. This wasn't about the money, it was about the intended use of the money.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/17/politics/17spend.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Garage, Freder, and the Liberal lunatics on Palin
I considered running away to join the circus but I was too fat to fit in the clown car.
And did Sarah Palin?
Oh, that is SO UNFAIR TO ASK!!!
She is TOUGH ENOUGH TO NEGOTIATE WITH WORLD LEADERS (but afraid of Campbell Brown).
Haha.
I don't know, at first I thought, "Hell, No" like most everyone else, but then, maybe, just maybe, he was inspired by this video . . .
(the timing is right, the song was a #2 billboard hit in 1979)
(according to the wiki, and other sources, it really was considered as a recruitment tool, till someone clued in the brass as to the nature of that group)
Things I considered doing when I was eighteen . . .
Applying to the Air Force Academy (realized my eyesight would have precluded me from being a jet fighter, no other air force duty appealed to my eighteen year old self)
Applying to Otis Parsons
(hey, I also went through an artsy-fartsy phase, as well)
Following the Dead for a summer
(I wasn't a stoner, but there was this one hot deadhead chick back in high school, and it seemed like a sure path to meeting many women of easy virtue)
Learning Russian and going there pre-fall of the Berlin Wall
(OK, I did learn some Russian, but never went there)
Learn the bass and join a band
(what eighteen year old dude didn't have some version of this as one of the things they were considering?)
Trying out for the Los Angeles Cobras one day.
(too bad they lasted only one season)
And like Reader I Am, becoming a mime . . .
Hell no. Even Stephanopoulos, good Democrat that he is, must have had to strain every nerve to keep his eyeballs from rolling.
I am willing to give Obama the benefit of the doubt only because as young guys, so many of of us did/do fanatsize about joing the Army/Marines etc. and living lives of adventure.
That's why this whole statement while probably true, is silly. Who cares, we all thought about it. Who exactly is he trying to impress with this?
I thought about the Marines when I graduated highshcool. But the parents weren't for it and I still hadn't figured out who's life it was. So I didn't protest and went to college like a good boy. Not until 30 years of age did I correct that mistake and join a National Guard infantry unit and put in my time in Iraq.
I would never begrudge anybody who doesn't feel that the military is for them. But don't think for a second you're actually impressing me with this crap. Instead you're drawing the stark contrast of what I (and millions of others) finally had the courage to do and you didn't.
It's like the experience argument...do you really wanna take the fight to this ground?
I did not, actually, give serious consideration to becoming a mime, you know. The very idea of my becoming a mime was, and is, absurd. (Of course, I don't expect anyone who hasn't met me to get the true hilarity of the notion. So you'll just have to take my word for it.)
George said...
If you want to serve, you serve, regardless of peace or war.
Oh, but he did serve. He joined the USCOC, the toughest, meanest, bunch of SOBs in the world. The United States Community Organizers Corps. He dodged bullets on city streets. He fought so the dope dealers and gang bangers could go about their business in peace and tranquility. He faced sniper fire from housing projects. He went mano e mano with the toughest guys in the city; on the basketball courts.
Obama served. He is a hero. He did nothing less than save the whole Southside of Chicago. He is a legend;
in his own mind.
Ah! Incongruity was the word I was looking for, but my mind went blank. Yeah. Replace "hilarity" with "incongruity." Though the incongruity itself is what would inspire hilarity among people I know IRL.
I don't think we should mock Senator Obama. I am quite sure he is sincere. I know after 911 he went and joined Old Navy.
He got 30% off his initial purchase.
People think Biden is the one with tongue-control issues, but whenever Obama goes off-script it seems like he can't not bullshit.
Sheesh.
"He fought so the dope dealers and gang bangers could go about their business in peace and tranquility."
LMAO! I just listened to an NPR piece about the Mexican Mafia and how the gang "truces" that were arranged by "community organizers/activists" played a large role in allowing dangerous street gangs to spread with
if there is any candidate that needs a teleprompter it is bambi--god, thid dude goes off script and he looks like the empty suit he is--pathetic.
O.k., I'll try again:
"He fought so the dope dealers and gang bangers could go about their business in peace and tranquility."
LMAO! I just listened to an NPR piece about the Mexican Mafia and how the gang "truces" that were arranged by "community organizers/activists" played a large role in allowing dangerous street gangs to spread with relative impunity.
Did Obama ever broker such a "truce"? Any "gang-related" crime data for his constituency while he was organizing and representin'?
Wurly said...
Under the left's "chickenhawk" reasoning, if Obama became President, would he ever have the moral authority to order troops into combat?
Yes he would. He would order them to go out and combat injustice and all the isms in the neighborhoods of the country. The miltary would be reduced to community organizer status.
Wait. this just in from KOS and Huffingglue. The media misunderstood Obama. His comments were misrepresented. He never said he wanted to join the Army as a young man. He wanted to join the Salvation Army. He will be issuing a statement sometime in the future, maybe.
I'd have sworn I registered in the summer of '79, when I had a summer job with the part of DoE that caused the gas crisis of that year (by controlling prices). But in '80 I was working a few blocks away, so I would have gone to the same post office. Wasn't SS passed in response to the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979?
I suspect ROTC passed through his mind briefly as a last ditch way to pay for college. Very few of the other military brats I knew in the 70's signed up, and the ones who did were gung ho well before.
Complete and total Bull shit.
The son of a left wing academic, grandson of two leftists, graduates from a private school during the dark period and historic low point military popularity, and he thinks about signing up, but passes cause there isnt a war on?
Was that in either of his two books? Then its total fabricated BS.
Roger... I think you seriously misread SGT Ted's comments--he described very accurately what the army was like in the late 1970s; it was a doper army where officers were afraid to enter the barracks.
When I was an LT in Germany in 75, duty officers wore pistols when they toured the barracks at night.
I remember my best pot bust as a commander in 80. Running in formation beside my company coming back from a 2 mile run, when we passed a soldier in the nearby battalion area. He was standing out in the middle of the buildings at 0700 in the morning, smoking a joint with maybe 500 people in sight. as we ran by, the front of the formation started laughing as we ran through the pot cloud. when it got to me, I alerted and started tracking the smoker, I yelled at him, he turned and started running, all the while trying to shred the baggy of grass he pulled from his pocket. I caught the sucker from behind and tackled him, it was a beautiful thing as he smacked the concrete we me riding him down. Two of my sergeants pulled him to his feet and we hauled him into the battalion HQ. I had bigger busts, but none sweeter. LOL
It was a sad, demoralized Army, and we all carried Miranda cards for arrests
Hold it - I think we have all made a dreadful mistake here - he said "military" - he didn't say for which country! Maybe Hamas or al Qeada or the Viet Cong. Come on people - give him credit. Maybe Sindero Luminoso or the Red Army Faction had standards he couldn't meet. We may never know what our blessed tabula rasa really meant by that statement. It's worth looking into - maybe his application at Aum Shinrikyo is still on file.
whenever Obama goes off-script it seems like he can't not bullshit
Remind you of anyone? (besides 90% of politicians, I mean one in particular).
Whahappened?
Appears as if the Obamapologists have gone to ground under the onslaught of a fact swarm.
And to think, not one charge of "Chickenhawk"! throughout the entire thread. Or did I miss something?
If anyone knew Obama's SSN, they could verify his date of registration here.
LMAO! I just listened to an NPR piece about the Mexican Mafia and how the gang "truces" that were arranged by "community organizers/activists" played a large role in allowing dangerous street gangs to spread with
Obama did community organizing for a Catholic outreach program for it's parishioners. When Guiliani says " I don't even know what a community organizer does", he knows exactly what they do. Make life miserable for cross-dressing fascist mayors like himself. Guiliani and his ilk hate people that aren't glued to the TV drinking a Bud Light that actually try to think for themselves and organize to try to make a difference. A Republican scoffing at "community organizer" is code word for "nigger in the hood", otherwise they wouldn't bother bringing up what Obama did for one year after graduating from college.
No need for the SSN. Pajama's Media did the investigation awhile back.
Obama's effective registration date was September 4, 1980. His registration number is 61-1125539-1.
Yes, of course he considered military service, in his wee thinky-thoughts, this much:
-->| .023 m sec |<--
Then immediately banished that weirdly random thought that flew through his cranium from end to end, in then out with a preternatural speed of a faintly formed thought and followed by a full body shudder which lasted much longer.
As he's said many times, and so patiently repeats for those who haven't been paying attention, all service is noble, and he's only ever thought of service to others.
NOT GET OFF HIS BACK, AND PALIN IS A BAD MOTHER WHO TELLS LIES !
bridge
moose
Down baby
spitspittlepfftgrrrrhrumph
* fills Depends™ *
I can't stand Obama, and have posted a bunch on the media Class Warfare we're seeting.
But I graduated in 1976, and felt exactly the same way.
Hey you guys just aren't being fair to Senator Obama. If Bill Clinton taught us anything, you have to parse the statement.
He never claimed that he wanted to join our Army.
He definitely could have considered becoming a Sandinista.
I bet he looks smashing in a beret.
Just not a green one.
Hahahahaha, this is from page 68 in Obama'a latest book, " 100 Things to Consider Before I Die".
Number 22 was "learn to bowl".
Number 40 was " be a cowboy".
Number 71 was "be a firefighter".
Number 8 was "befriend a terrorist".
Number 3 was "learn Black Liberation Theology".
This is fun.
Ann Dunham was alive in 1979. She would've personally chained himself to her son, if he went anywhere near a recruitment office. She would be Code Pink today, if she had lived.
Come on. Does he think we're stupid?
I don't consider it bad that Palin kept money from Washington DC. Isn't that what Governors and Mayors are supposed to do?
I don't consider it bad that Biden was anti-Thomas or anti-Alito. Aren't most of his constituents? Isn't he supposed to represent them?
1979 would have been when the SU invaded Afghanistan. Someone pondering service then would be taking that into consideration. I think it possible that Obama considered it. Not likely, but possible. It doesn't matter to me one way or another.
I'm reminded of the ridiculous brouhaha that centered on Hillary! sponsoring legislation (an earmark?) for a Woodstock Museum, or something like that, in Upstate NY. A perfectly obvious Senatorial duty, yet many were aghast.
To clarify -- that's what the complaints about Palin and the BtN remind me of.
BTW, the lover of irony within me wants to see Obama win just because of all the raw hatred towards him in this thread.
Yeah, MadMan, pretty soon people will be saying he didn't give birth to Sasha...
Madison Man there is no raw hatred. Think of it as a gently mocking disdain.
You know, sort how you feel toward Pauly Shore or Richard Simmons.
A Republican scoffing at "community organizer" is code word for "nigger in the hood", otherwise they wouldn't bother bringing up what Obama did for one year after graduating from college.
A liberal who considers community organizer as a qualification for president is is code for an intellectual idiot pretending to be a Mensa moron.
Keep stretching. You may finally snap.
student loans.
I remember a friend of mine saying that about himself! He hated having to register. This one one of those comments where having a lawyer like Ruth Anne on Althouse, makes all the difference.
But have Perkins, Stafford, and other student loans, including Pell Grants, been specifically around that long?
From Wiki: the Higher Education Act of 1965.
Steve at Hog on Ice is right, 'Ward Heeler' is a more accurate term.
MadisonMan said...
I'm reminded of the ridiculous brouhaha that centered on Hillary! sponsoring legislation (an earmark?) for a Woodstock Museum, or something like that, in Upstate NY. A perfectly obvious Senatorial duty, yet many were aghast.
They are building a Public Housing Museum here in Chicago. This is not joke. I laugh and cry at the same time. Laugh because what artifacts do you put into a public housing museum? They are building a museum to celebrate one if the largest financing of failures the Democrats gave us. I cry, because it is another waste of my tax money. Living in the United Soviet Socialist Republic of Chicago is just peaches. I’d love to see if Obama voted for funds for this.
garage mahal said...A Republican scoffing at "community organizer" is code word for "nigger in the hood",
A Democrat scoffing at Sarah Palin as a "small town mayor" is liberal racist code for "Evil, redneck racist White folks who want to lynch blacks, burn Jews and beat up fags."
You know, all the stuff that White people do in small town America every day.
”You know, when I see a community organizer chasing a woman down a dark alley with a knife in one hand a hard-on in the other, I don’t think he’s recruiting for ACORN”.
Dirty Mary 1980
Gosh, Obama's comment reminds me of wanting to drop out of High School during that Korean Thingy and join the Coast Guard Special Boats Section! But, Mommy said: "OG, hell no, you have to stay home and feed the dog. Now get back to cutting planks in the saw mill!"
I swear that's true, so help me Hanna!
"And did Sarah Palin?
Oh, that is SO UNFAIR TO ASK!!!"
Oh, it's not unfair to ask. I expect she'd say she never thought about joining the military at all.
Which is fine with me.
Like his original abortion question he also spoke about in the story, I think Obama is being flip about stating he thought about joining the military and I patiently await for his revised response that he really, really, seriously considered joining the military.
But I still voted 'Hell no.'
Has there been a candidate who has been so full of nothing? May be Seinfeld should make a TV comeback and have Obama on his show about nothing.
He is the very definition of a vaccuum -and by the time this election ends, he would have eclipsed Hillary in the number of outright lies a politician can possibly say - and that is no mean accomplishment.
Who are the 66 idiots who voted "yes" for Pete's sake?
It all depends on your definition of "consider".
Nah, actually, it doesn't work: "a: to think of especially with regard to taking some action".
I somehow doubt that his considerations ever rose to the level of "I could walk down to the recruitment center right now and take a test."
But that's being more careful with words than we usually are in casual conversation.
"Thought about" is more likely. "Smiled internally as the fantastic notion skirted just inside the bounds of awareness" seems about right.
Maybe "fantasized while dressing up for Halloween".
According to this article in The Telegraph in both of his vanity biographies he never mentioned wanting to join the military:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2700555/Barack-Obama-wanted-to-join-the-US-military.html
So, awesome at 12:15 PM, are you still standing by your comment that you saw 18 separate passages where Obama wrote he considered joining the military?
I doubt that someone as seriously leftist as Obama would seriously consider joining the military.
I especially doubt it given the state of the military in 79. I thought about the nuclear service around that time since the Navy was heavily recruiting around then and physics majors got a pretty sweet deal from them.
I considered it up until I talked to a buddy who'd been an enlisted man who I ran into on campus. He told me about how officers didn't dare go into many parts of the ship, rampant drug use and crime, etc. He'd been pretty up on the military the last I'd seen him, but he convinced me that just working at McDonald's was better and had more future.
Obama is approaching the Clinton Singularity -
Everyone, regardless of political agenda, background, or preference, recognizes that the lies begin when the lips move.
Sure hope he likes Chicago. Because his bus stops there.
I bet he has a whole chapter in at least on of his autobiographies about his thought processes around military service.
And about whether to hunt moose, and how it should be prepared.
The only thing I find interesting about this thread is the assertion that Gov. Palin told "documented" lies, and the failure to come anywhere near defending the assertion. This is a pattern to expect for the next few years.
Ann, maybe you should ban comments saying something is documented unless they include the alleged documentation.
1. Yes, there is a MOS for community organizer, it's called Civil Affairs.
2. Whether he was sincere about his interest or not is irrelevent. He didn't join. That is also irrelevent. It's not a requirement to join the military in our society.
3. If joining the military is relevent, then thinking about it is also not important. You either do it or you don't do it. Thinking about it doesn't count.
4. Even if joining were relevent and he did join, that's still somewhat unimportant. Would he have served honorably? I don't think there's any evidence of him being a sociopath. Marxist? Yes. Sociopath? Not likely.
5. Even if he did join and he did serve honorably, well, so did Kerry. It's still irrelevent. What you do afterwards can be much more telling about one's character. Serving honorably can be just a default way to get rid of someone, a la Kerry.
6. Much ado about nothing. His claim is pathetic and only shows how desparate he's become.
There actually was a conflict going on at the time (1979). It was called the Cold War. And millions of us served in it.
"6. Much ado about nothing. His claim is pathetic and only shows how desparate he's become."
His short term problem is not to tell so many of these "oh, please" little fibs that he moves into "how do you know if Barak is lying" joke territory.
I'm serious about this, his support outside his base could crash. Largely because his base is making the whole enterprise look bad right now. HINT: Forget Palin exists. She's in the stage with the public where an article describing how she personally killed and ate Bambi's mother in front of Bambi would be welcomed by the McCain camp as long as it included a picture of the Governor and the crying fawn.
In the same article Obama revisits his "above my pay grade" abortion answer.
I'll give him points for consistency.
As a *christian* he's *humble* and would never presume to say one way or another about it.
"In the ABC interview, Obama goes on [...] "I don't think that the government criminalizing the choices that families make is the best answer for reducing abortions.
“I think the better answer — and this was reflected in the Democratic platform — is to figure out,..."
The better answer is to figure out what is the better answer.
Uh, huh.
That's really all he said about it. His humility seems to range from refusing to make any moral assessment of abortion, all the way to not having any concrete suggestions, just generalities on what to do about it. Making adoption or keeping a child an easier choice to make is not an answer, it's a goal.
And it won't happen. As long as abortion must be presented as a guilt-free "choice" the right answer will always be abortion.
Raising a child is *hard*, and it's permanent. Giving a child up for adoption means living with the uncertainty that the child is going to be safe and well-cared for.
It's not possible to make those realities go away to make an even playing field so that women can be gently encouraged to chose abortion less often.
Obama is far too humble and christian to so much as suggest to any woman (or family) anywhere that any abortion, ever, has a moral weight it would be better to avoid if possible.
This is far FAR from saying that sometimes circumstances are such that a woman really is in a very bad place and abortion should be an option legally available to her and well into guilt-free everyone-should-have-one pro-abortion got-the-Tshirt territory.
Abortion is not a context free choice and the weight of it *ought* to be considered. And maybe the pregnant woman is the only one who can do that considering... but why is it so terrible to point out that her situation had better be bad enough to actually justify choosing herself over her baby?
And why can't Obama, when he's telling us outright what the "answer" is, actually come up with an answer instead of a fuzzy feel-good goal?
It might make her feel bad?
Hmmmmm.
1. "If you want to serve, you serve, regardless of peace or war."
*shrug* when I was 17, 1982, I thought about giving back to my adopted country by joining the Marines.
And, amazingly enough, it wasn't that hard to do. I just went down to the recruiter office, asked who I could talk to about becoming a US Marine Corps Rifleman and in nothing flat I was on my way to Parris Island.
Note to self: do not join up in the summer. Black flag days suck.
2. 1983 I was on a high security detail when my platoon commander and his sgt got busted for smoking dope while on duty.
It took a lot of effort to clean up not just the Army but the Corps as well.
3. "Did Obama ever broker such a "truce"? Any "gang-related" crime data for his constituency while he was organizing and representin'?"
I wonder if that's the "secret" of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge? Did someone come up with a bright idea to pay off South Side gangs to leave the schools alone?
He also said that Republicans have a very traditional view of public service... thus they think in terms of military service.
I don't know how someone gets a big pro-military vibe from that. It's the conservatives that view military service as a primary mode of public service, unlike other more enlightened people, who appreciate community organizers and what they do.
That's a bit silly, really. Conservatives are very much into public service... call it mission work, hm?.. and churches do a heck of a lot of that. No one is going to denigrate Obama because he suggests community public service rather than military... it's because he suggests this is a major part of his resume that he gets torn into about it.
And most people do have a bit of a clue... someone does the leg work and labor and actually tries to make a difference in people's lives, and someone else wears suits and goes to meetings and talks a lot.
1. "If you want to serve, you serve, regardless of peace or war."
I will say that I do know people who, if they knew they could get sent to Iraq, would have joined up, reenlisted, whatever... but they knew they wouldn't so they didn't.
I *might* have, if I knew I'd get sent, though even with prior service the non-chance of an age waiver and passing the physical meant it wasn't an option *anyway*.
People chose to do things for a lot of reasons. No doubt some boys do dream of fighting, even if just in the guilty freedom of their imaginations. But if that doesn't include at least talking to a recruiter to get more information there was never any "consider" involved in that guilty little dream.
I'm FAR more likely to believe that Hillary looked into joining the Marines (or whatever it was.)
Snowballs in hell are more probable than Obama having ever seriously considered enlisting.
Freder Frederson:
Mr. Owens,
Barack Hussein Obama registered at a post office in Hawaii. The effective registration date was September 4, 1980.
His registration number is 61-1125539-1.
Daniel Amon
Public Affairs Specialist
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/obama-did-obama-actually-register-for-selective-service/2/
I acutually thought about alot of things. Wait. I forgot about them until you asked me about them. Not fair!
"Because, back in the Vietnam days, that's when young guys felt especially motivated to sign up to fight.
Well, young Democrats did, like Al Gore and John Kerry. The previous generation of politicians all cited their war records, so perhaps they believed military service was a prerequisite for a future in politics. (Not Joe Biden however.) Not so much young Republicans, like
Samuel Alito
Bob Barr (ex-R)
Pat Buchanan
Jeb Bush
Dick Cheney
Tom Delay
Bill Frist
Newt Gingrich
Rudy Giuliani
Phil Gramm
Sean Hannity
Bill Kristol
Rush "Pilonidal Cyst Is My Ticket Out" Limbaugh
Trent Lott
Bill O'Reilley
John Roberts
Mitt Romney (service in France for the LDS church doesn't count)
Karl Rove
Antonin Scalia
Clarence Thomas
Michael "Savage" Weiner
George Will
Paul Wolfowitz
Oh, yay! It's the last gasp of the chickenhawk argument! Enjoy it while you can. What's the military count on the tickets this year? 4-1, something like that?
It's the last gasp of the chickenhawk argument!
My friend Kevin volunteered for the Marines on his 17th birthday -- his mom signed for him, down at the recruiting office. He survived his tour of duty with the help of some eye-opening R&R in Thailand. Jim was a Green Beret before he started college. He's stayed in the Reserves/Guard, although they tried to kick him out a dozen years ago for being too old. Two months after 9/11 he was sent to Qatar. He goes back on active duty soon.
Then there were the combat/draft "evaders". One guy I knew who got into the Air Guard had a dad who was a Republican bigshot -- not an easy thing to be when you're in Chicago. Others joined the Navy or the Air Force, figuring they would have less chance of being shot in a jungle. The war was over by the time I was old enough to join, but I did discuss my chances of becoming a nuclear submariner my senior year with one of the officers who taught Naval Science. So put me in the Obama bucket.
former law student said..."Well, young Democrats did, like Al Gore and John Kerry. The previous generation of politicians all cited their war records, so perhaps they believed military service was a prerequisite for a future in politics. (Not Joe Biden however.) Not so much young Republicans...."
What you're not processing is that there was a draft, and some young men volunteered in order to get a better position than they'd have ended up in if they'd been drafted. At a certain point they started a lottery where they let you know what your "draft number" was based on your birthday. If you had a low draft number, you had reason to volunteer.
As for Al Gore: "At graduation in 1969, a low draft number assured that he would be called up soon. "The draft board was breathing down his neck," his father recalled. "He sat around with his mother and I in the living room and talked about it. He said he didn't believe in the Vietnam War. I said, ‘Well, it isn't given in our law for an individual to go contrary to the law.' We discussed all the various things young men were doing to dodge the draft." His mother said that she would support whatever he wanted to do–"including going to Canada with him.""
As for John Kerry: "Vietnam. He enlisted like many other young men of privilege, trying to serve without going to the front lines. When in 1966 it looked like his draft number was coming up during his senior year at Yale University, and already having spoken out in public against the war, Kerry signed up with the Navy under the conscious inspiration of his hero, the late President John F. Kennedy. As a lieutenant junior grade, Kerry skippered a CTF-115 swift boat, a light, aluminum patrol vessel that bore a passing resemblance to PT-109. He thought he'd arranged to avoid combat. "I didn't really want to get involved in the war," he later would tell the Boston Globe. "When I signed up for the swift boats, they had very little to do with the war. They were engaged in coastal patrolling, and that's what I thought I was going to do.""
The volunteering back then was not equivalent to what it is now. Don't kid yourself.
I was a college student from 1969 to 1973, and I can tell you getting out of the draft was always the subject. And I don't think I knew a single Republican -- no one who would admit it anyway. This was at the University of Michigan. Everyone talked openly about how to evade the draft -- however they could. Notes from friendly psychiatrists, starving to get under 120 pounds, taking enough LSD to become crazy, and, if all else fails, going to Canada. I never heard anyone say that attitude was dishonorable and I never heard anyone say perhaps one ought to do one's duty and go. In fact, I am certain that if anyone I knew had said something like that, they would have been laughed at and shunned. The notion that Democrats were dutiful back then is absolute bullshit.
This is classic Obama: talk a lot about doing something, but never actually do it.
I also was in college during Viet Nam war. Enlisting was prefered to being drafted. Remember, we were also fighting the Cold War. They needed troops in Europe and other places as well. Draftees mostly went to the Nam.
Enlistees had a better chance of going to Europe or other posts; especially if they picked certain occupational specialties that required extensive trainig or they signed up for four years.
I finished high school in 1967 and went to Univ of Oregon for a year. While Oregon had been a big party school over the years, by 1967 Eugene was fast becoming little Berkeley, and anti-war activities and draft resistance was what was mostly on everyone's mind. School was fine, but the rest of it socially never really suited me. I had eight uncles on both sides of the family plus my father who were all close with each other and every single one of them had fought in WWII. They had expectations of their sons. Not all of my male cousins served but most of us did. After fall term 1968 I enlisted in the Navy. I knew I could resume school 4 years later, approach it with more maturity and have GI Bill benefits to make it easier. And that's exactly how it turned out.
What SGT Ted and belloscm said about the military in the 70s was exactly right. I saw it deteriorate before my very eyes.
In the time 1968-1970 my shipmates who had a couple of years on me were a special class of enlisted person. These were those who enlisted in 1964-1966, who were the junior petty officers (NCOs) who supervised us E-2s and E-3s, and who were our role models as it were. In my rating (job) most of us had at least some college, and several above me had their degrees. One had his BFA from the University of Washington. Another had a BA in humanities from Amherst. I can't speak for anybody else, but when I was a 19 and 20 year-old E-3 it was these people and some others of the same caliber who inspired me, who set the standard for me on how I conducted myself. By 1970 this kind of person was no longer enlisting, and those guys were getting out. In 1972 I made E-5, and I myself got out in mid-1973. The people I was in charge of at that point were truly a pathetic lot. High school dropouts or poor achievers if they did have a HS diploma, drug users, misfits in some way almost exclusively. It was a technical rating which required at least some mental abilities and the right attitude to do the job properly. They lacked it. When I left I felt badly for what was being left to take over. Such was the Navy in mid-1973. Just bad.
As for Obama, I'll take his word for it. He thought about it, however fleetingly. But thinking about it isn't doing it. He can't bridge that gap that way.
Ann,
As pvb said, draftees went into the army and they went to Vietnam. Al Gore enlisted in the Army and he was sent to Vietnam. It's true that he didn't have to carry an M16 into the jungle, but it's also true he didn't get the secure stateside slot that a Senator dad could have snagged for him -- Gore's dad had far more clout than failed Senatorial candidate GHW Bush had at that point.
Ann quotes Insight on the News on John Kerry
I used to read it when it was a paper magazine, back when the Rev. Sun Myung Moon hoped to make it the Newsweek to his conservative Washington Times. I'm gonna claim that it's a leetle bit biased. Compare this Boston Globe coverage of Kerry's decision:
As graduation approached, Kerry knew that he had three choices: be drafted, seek a deferment for graduate school, or join up and position himself to become an officer. ``It was clear to me that I was going to be at risk,'' Kerry recalled. ``My draft board . . . said, `Look, the likelihood is you are probably going to be drafted.' I said, `If I'm going to be drafted, I'd like to have responsibility and be an officer.' ''
At the same time, Kerry was losing interest in academics and was ready for adventure. ``I cut classes,'' Kerry said. ``I didn't do much. I spent a lot of time learning to fly.''
Kerry also had political ambitions -- and was aware of how much military service had served John Kennedy's career. ``John would clearly say, `If I could make my dream come true, it would be running for president of the United States,' '' recalled William Stanberry, Kerry's debate team partner for three years. ``It was not a casual interest. It was a serious, stated interest. His lifetime ambition was to be in political office.''
http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061503.shtml
Consider his swift boat, so much like his hero JFK's PT boat. John F. Kerry had even met John Fitzgerald Kennedy several times during the summer of 1962. Kerry wanted to be the next JFK.
Peter said...Enlistees had a better chance of going to Europe or other posts; especially if they picked certain occupational specialties that required extensive trainig or they signed up for four years.
lest some of you only think that the Army was trying to punish draftees by using them as cannon fodder in Nam, there was also another economic and military rationale.
a tour in Germany was normally 3 years, If you enlisted for 3 years (some MOS) or 4 years, the longer technical schools, then assigning you to Europe after your 6+ months of training meant that the Army got a full tour out of you.
assign a draftee to Europe and he served 18 minths max of a 36 month tour. This caused a lot of turblence and higher costs.
Hence draftees proportionally were more likely assigned to overseas short tours (12) months in Korea or Nam
btw, I voted No because I don't think he seriously considered it. More of a quick Should I? No thing.
So I think the question was poorly phrased. Seriously.
Is this claim supposed to be a way of getting some nominal credit for military service without ever actually serving in the military?
Actually, Obama is just following Hillary's led on this one. Although, I don't know if Obama was considering the Marines or perhaps Airborne Special Services units!
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