The 17-year-old daughter of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is pregnant, Palin said on Monday in an announcement intended to knock down rumors by liberal bloggers that Palin faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her child.How bizarre! Is this just a coincidence or is this fact actually related to the rumors that went wild over the weekend, saying that Sarah Palin's new baby, Trig, was not her baby at all but her grandson?
Bristol Palin, one of Alaska Gov. Palin's five children with her husband, Todd, is about five months pregnant and is going to keep the child and marry the father, the Palins said in a statement released by the campaign of Republican presidential candidate John McCain.
Bristol Palin made the decision on her own to keep the baby, McCain aides said.
"We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us," the Palins' statement said.
"Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support," the Palins said.
The Palins asked the news media to respect the young couple's privacy.
"Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family. We ask the media, respect our daughter and Levi's privacy as has always been the tradition of children of candidates," the statement concluded.
Senior McCain campaign officials said McCain knew of the daughter's pregnancy when he selected Palin last week as his vice presidential running mate, deciding that it did not disqualify the 44-year-old governor in any way.
IN THE COMMENTS: mcg said:
Well, I know this is shameless of me, but my first step is admitting the problem, right? My mind immediately went to Obama's comment that if his daughters "make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."(Link for the Obama quote.)
John Lynch said:
It's an example of fitting in facts to a theory you want to believe. The Kos bloggers wanted something more bizarre, so they came up with it. Now, they'll be claiming vindication even when the primary smear, on Palin herself, isn't true.Ben (The Tiger) said:
Did someone leak this to someone else but get the details wrong, like in a child's game?That's the best explanation I've heard.
Sy said:
Well, Bristol was wearing an engagement ring at the announcement last week. Clearly, they were not trying to hide it. It's a private matter.MadisonMan said:
I think the way to support a child through a pregnancy is to be there for them, not to embark on a national campaign -- sure, it's "only" 2 months -- that will shine the spotlight on the child. Anyway, that would be my reaction as a parent.Oh, that looks like a meme. Sarah Palin must stay home with her special needs baby. Sarah Palin must stay home with her about-to-be-married, pregnant daughter. Ladies: Put your career on hold until everything in your family stops happening. I know, MM is a man and he's saying he'd stay home too, but would he? Would a man forgo his career to be there for a family member who is experiencing an important life transition?
Remember when John Edwards decided to go on with his campaign after his wife got a diagnosis of inoperable cancer? Now, I think Elizabeth Edwards was probably excited about the campaign and wanted to go on with it. In that light, why are you assuming that Bristol Palin isn't excited about her mother's campaign? Unlike Elizabeth Edwards, Bristol is not facing her last days. She's just starting out -- all caught up in life. Presumably, she's intense and positive about her pro-life beliefs, her love for the baby's father, her impending wedding, and the new baby on the way.
I imagine her eager to run around with the campaign, spreading the pro-life message to young people. Why should you think she would prefer to mope around the house, feeling ashamed, absorbing maternal comforting? On the campaign trail, she will be a loved and praised pro-life heroine, and she -- and her mother -- are likely to convert others to the pro-life side, with their glamorous and very positive image. Pro-choicers beware.
ADDED: In the comments Randy quotes my "Would a man forgo his career to be there for a family member who is experiencing an important life transition?" and says:
Ann, Joe Biden talks about facing that question when his wife and daughter were killed, and his sons injured, in that car accident. I can't recall anyone ever criticizing him for making the decision to remain in the US Senate and commute from Delaware to DC.
AND: The hunky boyfriend.
Posts
727 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 727 Newer› Newest»Todd Palin has DWI arrest.
It still raises very serious questions about McCain, how he makes decisions impulsively, taking risks. I do not want Sarah Palin to be President, ever. The more I find out, the less I care for her, and the more perplexed I am about this decision. And when I see conservatives who care about national security celebrating this bone McCain threw to the hard right, I am in a state of disbelief. Truly an awful decision.
With all due respect, she was a fair mayor, she is a fair governor (overrated by the Limbaugh crowd), and a complete neophyte with strong Christianist ideological leanings, and zero experience or apparent interest in foreign policy or national domestic issues. If it didn't concern Alaska and oil, she knows next to nothing about it. With the world as dangerous as it is, we don't need a good local politician learning on the job in the Oval Office if McCain dies, god forbid. At least Obama spent four years in the Senate, has been both tested and "made public" by a 20-month campaign, the 21 debates and the countless interviews. I have no clue what Sarah Palin thinks about the Middle east, none, even after trying to figure it out for 2 days.
Really, the recklessness of this decision is beyond my capacity to support. Whatever chance McCain had of getting my vote is gone with his choice of Palin. I may vote for Obama or for Barr, or even not vote, but I cannot vote for a man who thought Palin was an appropriate choice to be VP, one heartbeat from the oval office.
AlphaLiberal:
"But explicit sex ed is just another way to say "how human sexual reproduction works." Do you also object to diagrams of male and female reproductive anatomy?"
Hmm. Actually, "sex ed" is another way of saying "how human sexual reproduction works."
The explicit must add something.
What does it add?
AlphaLiberal said...
Much as I disagreed with raising this, the people pushing it were half right. The daughter was pregnant.
The mighty modern fighting liberal is exposed as a bold faced liar living in a fantasy land of his own creation. The question was never if the daughter was pregnant. It was whose baby is Trig? Since KOS and all of your other juvenile delinquent pundits put this out there with all of their evidence the only person who was wrong is you. You were never half right. You were not even in the same country as the ball park. I finally figured you out. Instead of the truth setting you free, the truth pisses you off.
But explicit sex ed is just another way to say "how human sexual reproduction works."
How do we know this? That is, how do you know she's not differentiating between more mainstream forms of sex ed and some of the more edgy stuff? I mean, when I was in 9th grade I saw an image of a penis covered in genital warts, blown up on a huge slideshow screen in thy gym. In all honest I could have done without it.
That's the entertainment.
You show a callow remove from life. Spectating is not mandatory, you know, Zachary. You can choose not to rubberneck.
What was Obama doing in 1984, Eric, stuffing coke up his nose? Oh, but he never got caught, so that makes it ok. Seriously, you people are repulsive.
People are not grasping the fact that this is possibly the second child of Bristol Palin.
First No way a doctor authorized Sarah to give a speech, fly to alaska and then have a baby. Her placenta had to have been ruptured for at least 12-16hrs. Not to mention she was a multiparity. With a high risk pregnancy there is no way this could have happened.
Second it has been five months since Trig was born. I don't know about you, but politicians lie. So, bristol could actually be 3-5 pregnant, and that is plausible for a second child.
What we have here is a young girl who likes to get pregnant, and a mom who will do anything to cover up what she believes are mistakes.
Except this mom has the potential to be president of the USA. Now that is what I find really scary. Because if she is willing to cover this up, what else will she be willing to do to keep stuff secret.
How supportive can one be on the campaign trail? A lot less supportive than if she's at home is my guess.
Wow, MadMan, and you with your daughters too...this is pre-1970s sexism writ large, man.
And coming from the side which champions feminism, it's mindboggling.
Who wrote this last night on Althouse? That a lot of feminists were made in 2008.
I thought that was true last night, but even moreso today.
Bored Boy,
How do you know that Bristol (and the father) did not want to keep the child and raise it themselves?
People are not grasping the fact that this is possibly the second child of Bristol Palin.
This has got to be a parody.
"I do not want Sarah Palin to be President, ever. The more I find out, the less I care for her, and the more perplexed I am about this decision."
The more you find out about what? Her daughter's sex life? Her husband?
And seriously, Christianist?
"and zero experience or apparent interest in foreign policy or national domestic issues."
Sigh. And Obama's experience in such matters is...?
Obama: "Back off" Palin pregnancy
Christina Bellantoni (Contact)
Monday, September 1, 2008
MONROE, Mich. - Democratic nominee Sen. Barack Obama Monday afternoon issued a strong statement to "back off" reports of Bristol Palin's pregnancy, telling reporters families — and especially children — are off limits in this presidential campaign.
Mr. Obama, campaigning here, also noted that his own mother was 18 when she gave birth to him.
"People's families are off limits," he said. "People's children are especially off limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. "
"I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories," he added. "That shouldn't be a topic in our politics."
He vehemently pushed back against an unnamed McCain aide suggesting his campaign had any ties to the blogs that were spreading rumors before the news broke, saying he was "offended" by that and if any of his staff was involved in spreading the issue, "they'd be fired."
"We don't go after people's families. Our people are not involved in any way," he said.
AlphaLiberal said...
The truth is this; Ann Althouse has done more to spread the rumor than Kos (Markos) did.
There was never a story about this posted to the front page of DailyKos. The links Ann Althouse deceitfully used to falsely paint the whole community were taken from individual posts, which any member can add. And joining is easy.
Althouse's deceit here…
More mighty modern fighting liberal lies. Any normal, sane person would have been outraged at this behavior. If such disgusting lies were told about Hillary, Markos would be forced at gun point to apologize on his knees.
The only deceit on this blog is from the mighty modern fighting liberal(s).
Here comes the second wave of Koscrap.
You think the religious right should be attacking a 17 year old girl?
I would hope not. I hope the fact that they are not demonstrates a sea change in their approach over the last 21 years or so. When my sister went through a similar situation the pastor suggested to my mom that my sister "go away" during the pregnancy. When my sister chose to stay and have the baby, our family endured a lot of whispers about what a slut my sister was (despite the fact that there were undoubtedly other young women in the community who were sexually active but didn't get "caught") and what bad parents my parents were. Finally, once the kid was born, the excellent so-called "pro-life" group at our church volunteered a grand total of zero times to help with the child so that my sister could finish her studies.
Who employs Sullivan?
Can or should he be fired?
"What we have here is a young girl who likes to get pregnant, and a mom who will do anything to cover up what she believes are mistakes."
Keep it up, you fucking ghouls. I smell your desperation, like a shark smells blood in the water.
Alpha-
It's on CNN , FOX and Drudge.
I think that's why Obama is also responding.
Eric Muller said...
Todd Palin has DWI arrest.
So what!!!!!!!!!!!
And that should be the response to all of ths trash talk. So effen what.
You show a callow remove from life.
Then so do you, because you're here watching and commenting just as much if not more than I do. I never believed the rumors and never found them offensive to the baby or the daughter. It was about people questioning Palin's character. Watching you all freak out was/is ridiculous and, yes, entertaining.
jk1004 said...
"People are not grasping the fact that this is possibly the second child of Bristol Palin."
...
...
My jaw's still hanging open. Unbelievable that there are idiots who are STILL pushing this meme! STILL! It was never credible to begin with, it's been disproven on multiple fronts, the evidence adduced in the first place shown faulty (the picture of Bristol that supposedly "proved" she was pregnant was taken two years before the birth), and yet there are still people pushing this? Terrifying to think that such people can vote.
But explicit sex ed is just another way to say "how human sexual reproduction works." Do you also object to diagrams of male and female reproductive anatomy?
Every student should learn how reproduction works in either biology or "health" class. "Explicit" sex ed classes aren't about that, they're about birth control methods, sex techniques, and lifestyle choices, at least according to the news reports I've read. And in some states, parents don't even have the option of opting their kids out of classes that will expose them to such inappropriate material.
This is a serious issue. Kids are over-exposed to sexual content already, and discussing this information in detail to middle school kids and younger is giving them information they literally do not need at that age. (Please note my emphasis.)
""People's families are off limits," he said. "People's children are especially off limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. "
"I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories," he added. "That shouldn't be a topic in our politics."
Good for him for saying it. But good luck controlling some of your disgusting followers, Senator Obama. They're going to do their best to try and destroy Palin at all costs.
The best way to find out and resolve this whole matter is to let me suck on Sarah and Bristol's tits. I will take my time and I will let you know who's baby it is by who produces the most milk. You can still lactate even if you stopped breastfeeding 6 months ago. The stimulation will produce milk again.
Sincerely,
Uncle Bradley
This story is just bizarre. Levi, the Dad-to-be, is a classmate, I hope, and not a 41-year-old twice-divorced Oil Lobbyist.
It does not make me think better of McCain.
First No way a doctor authorized Sarah to give a speech, fly to alaska and then have a baby. Her placenta had to have been ruptured for at least 12-16hrs. Not to mention she was a multiparity. With a high risk pregnancy there is no way this could have happened.
You have no idea what you're talking about. For instance, it's not the placenta that ruptures, it's the amniotic sac. If the placenta had ruptured she'd have been in the nearest emergency room and the baby likely wouldn't have made it.
Furthermore, it is my understanding that the amniotic sac hadn't fully ruptured, just she was leaking fluid. But even when water breaks, it is typically another 12-24 hours before labor begins. How many hours did you say that flight was?
Doctors like to monitor conditions once water breaks because of the increased risk of infection. Some doctors will eventually induce labor if it hasn't occurred a certain amount of time after water breaks. But it's a doctor's discretion, based on a variety of factors.
Go crawl back in your hole.
Palladian-
Good for him for saying it. But good luck controlling some of your disgusting followers, Senator Obama. They're going to do their best to try and destroy Palin at all costs.
I gotta feeling they don't care if they take down Obama with them and her.
I can't understand what it is about Sarah Palin that is driving them batshit crazy.
I never believed the rumors and never found them offensive to the baby or the daughter.
Then that's how you and I differ.
I didn't enjoy the "entertainment" as you call the shameful spectacle we were witness to last night.
It would never even occur to me to call smearing a Down Syndrome baby with rumours, entertainment.
I was and continue to be appalled at how people use other human beings for their own purposes.
You know, last night I saw a lot of people saying things that had my jaw dropping. Not on Althouse, but on Kos, though there were many on Althouse who didn't distinguish themselves, with these rumours.
And something told me, damn, you know, whatever my parents did in teaching me right from wrong, they did right.
I am not perfect, that's not what I mean, but I know there is a line humans don't cross without losing their humanity.
Professor, I hope you're sending Sarah Palin a christmas card this year...she's doing wonders for your traffic!
Time to get outside! It's a absofrigginlutely gorgeous day today!
Good for Obama, he has said the right thing at the right moment. I'm thinking it's time for the rest of us to back off the discussion, as well. We've been asked to let private matters be private, and there's little to add by continuing to talk about it. At this point, the slime-spreaders have been fully exposed for what they are, and the more they continue to slime (like jk1004's comment, if it's serious) the more votes they drive toward the right, in sheer disgust. I'm going to try, at least, to back off now.
"I can't understand what it is about Sarah Palin that is driving them batshit crazy."
Because when they saw she got the nomination they realized, maybe for the first time, that they might lose. It's called pant-shitting fear, and they're going to sling every little turd they find from now until November.
Zachary Paul Sire said...
"[I] never believed and never found the[ rumors] offensive to the baby or the daughter."
A statement that ably proves Victoria's point about your "callow remove from life." I don't know what can be said about someone who didn't offensive a rumor that a mother's fifth daughter was actually her daughter's first, and that it was all a cover up. Your party is in the process of disgracing itself in the eyes of any civilized American. The way this smear campaign is being conducted against Palin is so far beyond the pale that it can't even see the emerald isle. It's off somewhere in orbit around another planet. the fact that you aren't deeply ashamed of what's being done in your name, and that you not only won't condemn it but seem untroubled by it, marks you as a failed human. Not just flawed, failed. Such a rapid fall from grace for one who showed some promise.
"That's the entertainment."
You're actually pretty entertaining too, Zachy. Nothing funnier than watching a stumbling drunk queen make a fool of himself.
Oh, I don't know if this was settled here yet, but I'm hearing Palin stated she supported contraceptives in her 2006 campaign. She does not appear to be abstinence only in her views.
Victoria, lighten up for pete's sake.
The baby was never smeared. You choose to see it that way and it's upsetting you, but that's because you choose to see it this way. Just because I have a different opinion about who the smear was directed at doesn't mean I have some "callow remove from life."
And if it's so soul crushing, why are you reading the Kos comment loons?
I can't understand what it is about Sarah Palin that is driving them batshit crazy.
I wrote about this in "There is Something About Sarah Palin".
She attracts people gratuitously to her, in a combination of personal life story and presentation.
But the opposite is true too.
I wrote this to explain my feelings:
In fact, there are two actors not present in this drama, whose spectres nevertheless haunt our stage: George W. Bush, and Hillary Clinton.
During all these few days left until November 4, 2008, the two most prominent individuals which defined two decades of American politics will be missing.
But most people will not be satisfied until they can find some Dubya in Sarah Palin, as well as some Hillary.
I'm not saying she's the female equivalent of George Bush for the Left.
The dynamics of their hatred so far have to do with dismissal, not loathing.
But they dislike her for the same reasons they dislike him -- he's the embodiment of just about everything which drives the Left crazy about the Right.
MadisonMan: I guess the parallel for me would be if I were to be offered a Dean position (as if!) requiring 90% travel (HA!) just as my daughter became pregnant. That would be an easy choice.
What do you think you would be doing for your pregnant daughter, giving up a big promotion like that? Do you think your pregnant daughter wants you hanging around at home, monitoring her every move, any more than your non-pregnant teenager would? The only time I can think that would make sense would be if you were the only family member living, you had no other support system, and your daughter had a critical pregnancy forcing her to be on bed rest for the duration. Because I'm sure you know that healthy pregnant women go about their daily lives as usual right up until they go into labor, with a bit more crankiness at the end as we get too big to be comfortable anywhere but a swimming pool.
Obviously you would re-arrange travel plans around the time that delivery was expected, and you would have to remain flexible. But I can't see denying your family the increased income and the benefits that would provide just because of pregnancy in the family. If it was your wife's pregnancy, would you similarly decline? It sounds nice and all, "I'd stay put for my daughter," but it doesn't pass the reality test.
madawaskan said...
"I can't understand what it is about Sarah Palin that is driving them batshit crazy."
I can. Look at how they treat Clarence Thomas. Look at how they treat Jerry Zucker. Look at how they treat Ann Althouse. The left cannot stand people whose votes they feel entitled to leaving the plantation and thinking for themselves. Those who leave must be punished, and they must be punished publicly and brutally as a warning to everyone else on the plantation.
For the last 72 hours, the leftosphere has collectively been engaged in a desperate search of Palin County, looking for a sturdy rope and a tree with a perpendicular limb.
-- Breaking News --
"Teenager has sex"
Oh wait, that's not news, and that's not what the headlines are saying. Instead, what they are saying is "Palin: Daughter, 17, Pregnant" (Washington Post). Of course, teenage sex is not news nor, would I suspect, is unmarried sex by the children of presidents and vice presidents and candidates news. I have no first hand knowledge, but I would be highly surprised if someone like unmarried Chelsea Clinton or the unmarried Gore girls are/were virgins. Actually, it is none of my business, and I only raise them as examples to make the point that I would suspect that practically all, if not all, of the children of presidents and vice presidents and candidates have been sexually active, or if not active, then have had it at least once (at least in the modern age). Point being, that they have sex is not news, it is not something for people to stop and be aghast at.
Apparently, what is news, however, and cause for tongue-clucking, is pregnancy. Treating pregnancy as a disease, as a form of leprosy, and treating the pregnancy as the moral failing. Which is to say, the resulting child is the evil. Once again, this is an attack on the innocent. Once again, we see an anti-child mentality at play.
Whatever may be the moral implications of teenage unmarried sex, a resulting pregnancy is not, in and of itself, a moral evil, as is implied by all this "breaking news" treatment. Indeed, the child in the womb is, and can only be, a moral good, a gift to the parents and to us all. True, it would be better, because he or she deserves it, for the child to be created and born within the context of marriage, a complete family, but the child himself or herself is precious, not an evil or something to be riduculed.
And don't tell me again that Republicans are out of touch. Don't tell me again that they do not know the experiences of everyday people. Once again, the Palins show themselves to be "one of us."
Zach, all I'll say is this -- when you have a baby, and gay guys sometimes choose that option, please revisit this situation again. Perhaps you might have a change of heart.
Other than that, I think Simon answered pretty well in my stead, already.
"I can't understand what it is about Sarah Palin that is driving them batshit crazy."
Nor can I. The only rational explanation I can come up with is that she didn't drive them batshit crazy, but that they already have been batshit crazy.
But the stench of crazy is overwhelming, and it is coming from some surprising places.
jk1004 said...
People are not grasping the fact that this is possibly the second child of Bristol Palin.
AlphaLiberal’s alter ego has spoken!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Obama: "We don't go after people's families. Our people are not involved in any way," he said.” While the theme from the Godfather played in the background!!!
Here's my question: When is Obama going to call these people out? When is he going to tell them to stop? I hope everyone remembers why Obama claimed he was rejecting public funding: he said that McCain couldn't control the attack dogs on the right, so he needed extra money to rebut those charges. Well, the lynch mob turns out to be on the left, and if Obama can't control it, he should use some of those ill-gotten gains to rebuke it.
they already have been batshit crazy.
Good point, Enigmatic.
But a lot of liberals are not like this, so to refine your point:
Their batsh*t crazy side is being allowed to take over the rational side. It's a power struggle you saw in the Hillary v. Obama situation, and sadly, the Obama side which has more of these loons, won.
For now.
Slightly off-topic, but did anyone here know that Cindy McCain has a Master's degree in Special Education and that her first job after college was working with Down Syndrome children?
Such a rapid fall from grace for one who showed some promise.
Oh, Simon! Don't flatter me so. Winning your adulation has always been my goal. And it still is! I will make you love me once more.
The fact remains, the baby was not smeared. They were trying to make a liar out of Palin. And because the whole thing is not true, how could even Palin be offended? It's her baby and she knows it...how could she not laugh off all the ridiculous rumors? You all are being way to sanctimonious and overprotective. How do you know that her and Todd weren't having a good chuckle over this?
If I had a baby and someone started a rumor that it wasn't mine, I'd be like...uh, so? It's my baby. Now STFU and let me get back to breastfeeding him.
Your party is in the process of disgracing itself in the eyes of any civilized American.
Really? An anonymous diarist on DKos = an entire party? Isn't that a smear? Of course it is and that's the point. Poor McCain is a victim because he was a POW and can't be criticized. Poor Palin is a victim because her and her daughter are having children together. Seriously, what next?
Oh cool, Randy! No wonder the photos of the McCain/Palin bus looked so...natural.
The atmosphere on that bus, as Meghan McCain said, now has a youthful vibe. I can imagine Mrs. McCain contributes her emotional support.
Today's Lessons for Liberals
1. Because conservatives don't want publicly funded institutions teaching their version of something, like appropriate sexual behavior, to small children doesn't mean we are opposed to informing children about sex and its consequences including disease and pregnancy.
2. Because conservatives disagree with a policy or opinion doesn't mean we hate the person involved.
3. The concern with condoms isn't how to put them on. The concerns are:
a. Effectiveness; they can fail at a double digit rate.
b. Immediate availability; everyone forgot, and lust is about to overcome teenage judgment.
c. Disease; condoms do not prevent contracting some STDs.
d. Withdrawal and removal; this is the risky time. Sperm can be persistent little swimmers, and a small amount of "spill" is a dangerous thing.
4. Unplanned teenage pregnancy is not "Astounding!".
That is all. Class will resume tomorrow at the usual time.
Ann, call for a new thread please?
"Both she and John McCain prefer a pro-ignorance approach to reproduction."
This is such BS.
Just because someone has decided to portray abstinence as ignorance doesn't make it so. The idea that anyone promoting the idea that teenagers (or anyone else unmarried) shouldn't understand biology and shouldn't understand the issues surrounding sexual activity is absurd.
It's actually the opposite of *sex* education isn't it.
Sex education where children are kept ignorant of anything more taxing to their understanding than how to use birth control because they are so disrespected by those providing the "education" that no one could possibly possibly expect them to do anything but blindly follow their hormones.
Sex education isn't *education* at all. It's damage control.
Actual education about biology, consequences, and "where babies come from" is not at all counter-indicated by the word "abstinence."
As for abstinence education not working... neither does "sex" education "work" in any recognizable way...
... unless it's convincing young people to abort?
Sarah could still be Trig's mother. This means that she got pregnant again soon after giving birth. Sometimes called "Irish Twins"....just a thought.
Sigh. Blech. Wretch.
Matt: Don't Christian Conservatives generally dislike premarital sex?
No, we generally like it as much as everyone else does. We just believe it's a sin.
Especially when it is leads to a teenage daughter becoming pregnant?
Not especially, no; it's a sin whether a pregnancy results or not. But then, Christian Conservatives also believe that we're all sinners anyway. Studious Christians, particularly Protestants, also believe that no sin is "better" or "worse" than any other sin.
Seems to me if Palin were a Liberal Democrat this would be red meat for many Conservatives.
It would be if the way the Palins' approach it were to claim that premarital sex and single motherhood were "just another lifestyle choice," or if Bristol had instead announced her intention to get an abortion. Instead, we find that Bristol had the courage to tell her parents a difficult truth, and apparently she had good reason to be willing to do so: her parents are no doubt disappointed, and probably surprised, but apparently everyone involved has faith that Bristol's forthcoming marriage and the young couple's keeping the baby is the best choice for them. Unsurprisingly, it's also the choice that is most consistent with their Catholic faith. I have no doubt that the Palins are making sure that Bristol understands that some things will be more difficult for her as a consequence of this series of choices. I also have no doubt that Sarah and Todd are sincere when they say that their daughter has 100% of their love and support. Their approach to the circumstances is, once again, exemplary of their Christian faith, popular opinion notwithstanding.
Zach, you really are an idiot. How could someone be offended by a slanderous rumor that wasn't true? Are you kidding?
I propose an experiment. I will take out a full page ad in Zach's home town paper warning people to avoid the child molestor Zachary Paul Sire. I will mail copies of the ad to everyone who works with or for Zach. Then we'll see how Zach feels about spreading rumors that aren't true, and I'm betting it won't be "Uh, I'm not, now STFU."
No, we generally like it as much as everyone else does. We just believe it's a sin.
LOL. You are so right, my good man :) I stand corrected.
DEMS - the Republicans would've without a doubt done the very same thing.
Right! Just like they have with Obama's race.
Oh, wait! That was Obama making an issue that "they" would make an issue.
How do all these "abstinence-only" blamers know that Bristol and Sarah didn't discuss this? How do they know Bristol and her fiancee didn't use a condom, or some other form of birth control, and it failed? My first daughter was conceived because of a broken condom. Safe sex isn't always so safe.
Sarah could still be Trig's mother. This means that she got pregnant again soon after giving birth. Sometimes called "Irish Twins"....just a thought.
No, not "just a thought." A ludicrous, idiotic thought, demonstrating an incredible lack of decency and a desire to redefine the term "bottom-feeder."
Paul Snively:
Instead, we find that Bristol had the courage to tell her parents a difficult truth, and apparently she had good reason to be willing to do so: her parents are no doubt disappointed, and probably surprised, but apparently everyone involved has faith that Bristol's forthcoming marriage and the young couple's keeping the baby is the best choice for them
Could read like the more religious version of the script for Juno.
Loved that film. Ellen Paige was tremendous in it.
Garage mahal said...
"An anonymous diarist on DKos = an entire party?"
How many people on the left have denounced the rumor? How long did it take for Kos to delete the diary and expel the diarist? Oh, that's right, he not only didn't, he tolerated more threads based around the same smear. Kos is knee-deep in this, and so are those on the left who are refusing to denounce this. I notice you still haven't denounced it, Garage, yet I bet you thought McCain's ghastly joke about Chelsea ten years ago was an unforgivable act.
I see more people here slinging Althouse's mud at liberal bloggers over this.
Fact: Ann Althouse, and conservative bloggers like her, did more to spread this rumor than any leading blogger I have seen.
Kos never put the post in question on the front page, where things get highlighted. There was never a front-page story on it.
Eschaton, TPM, other sites ignored it until the release from the McCain campaign.
Meanwhile, the RIGHT-WING BLOGOSPHERE was churning out all kinds of posts spreading thee rumor. They did so to bask Kossacks, but they still did so. That's how rumors work.
So, Ann and your ilk, you're the biggest hypocrites of this story.
You think the religious right should be attacking a 17 year old girl?
The better question is do you think anyone should be attacking a 17 year old girl. The whacked out netroots have proved that they are utterly shameless, amoral, and evil.
Thanks, Victoria. No, I've been around here forever- just don't comment too often.
MM: "I'm not telling Sarah Palin to quit her day job and stay home."
No, you're just saying she's a bad mother if she doesn't. Another victory for feminism!
It is just a thought.... that same things happens all the time. Who are you to bash someone for their opinion... I was not saying that it was true, but it is possible.
"Would a man forgo his career to be there for a family member who is experiencing an important life transition?"
Yes, some men do forgo or delay their careers when a family member needs help with a life transition. But if one does it is the marked exception rather than the rule. Our culture still expects the woman to make the career sacrifices.
I think that if Palin were elected she would do more to our notion of what it is to be a working woman than either Clinton or Ferraro would have precisely because she still has children in the home. We would see what women are capable of when there is high quality child care available (in her instance provided by the state or, at a minimum, subsidized by the state).
vbspurs said...
Here comes the second wave of Koscrap.
Correction dear, it is Koskrap. It is that Soviet style trendoid propaganda thingy or something.
How many people on the left have denounced the rumor?
Even on this very blog.
There are delete buttons which could make inconvenient opinions disappear, but I'll have them in my memory for a long time.
Guys, I wish you all a happy Labour Day, should it apply.
I'm off with my parents to enjoy the beautiful day. :)
Cheers,
Victoria
Oh, my Eric! That is breaking you shared. 24 years ago, Todd Palin was arrested for DWI. About the same time of Barack Obama's self-reported cocaine use, isn't it? And about as interesting, too. Sad to see someone with your reputation reduced to this.
Obama's says, Back off:
I have heard some of the news on this and so let me be as clear as possible. I have said before and I will repeat again, I think people's families are off limits, and people's children are especially off limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics, it has no relevance to governor Palin's performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. And so I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know my mother had me when she was 18. And how family deals with issues and teenage children that shouldn't be the topic of our politics and I hope that anybody who is supporting me understands that is off limits.
Peter Bella:
foia, foam, pant, pant. Since KOS and all of your other juvenile delinquent pundits put this out there with all of their evidence the only person who was wrong is you.
Yo, Mr Rocket Scientist; I never supported this rumor, learned of it here and stated I hoped it would "evaporate." You are bearing false witness.
Markos ("Mr. Kos")(never published a post on this. A subscriber on his large web site did. That post was not elevated to the front page where they give issue.
A part of the rumor was saying the girl was pregnant. She was. (so much for abstinence-only sex ed!).
You're looking like the liar now. Pushing a false story because it's all you've got.
Simon, you really are an idiot. What the Kos people did was loony and lame and easily discredited. What you are proposing for my "home town paper" is illegal.
"It is just a thought..."
So is this one. You just might smell bad, and definitely could use some makeup. And as far as being subtle and clever, you would be out of your depth in a parking lot puddle.
"Sarah could still be Trig's mother. This means that she got pregnant again soon after giving birth. Sometimes called "Irish Twins"....just a thought."
Um, Sarah is Trig's mother. If you're going to plant moonbat conspiracy theories, at least get the relevant names correct, for Christ's sake.
Who are you to bash someone for their opinion.
You must be new here. Bashing people is the only way many people here know how to get their point across. Hey, whatever it takes!
Enigmatocore... it is still possible.
Honestly, can't we get a better class of troll around here?
Reason Number 435 why liberals think conservatives are full of crap:
Conservatives say they don't oppose sex ed and contraception all the while their political movement runs around ... opposing sex ed and contraception.
What a bunch of BS. Real dishonesty.
"It is just a thought.... that same things happens all the time. Who are you to bash someone for their opinion... I was not saying that it was true, but it is possible."
Yes, it's also possible that you smoke crack and murder premature babies at your local hospital and put razor blades in apples for trick-or-treaters and were the woman that put Mohammed Atta off women and kidnapped the Lindberg baby. I'm not saying it's true, but that it's possible....
Jonathan - kudos to Obama for that. It's lukewarm, but I think it speaks well of him that he at least wagged his finger at the people responsible for and complicit in this, and at the people who don't get why it's so utterly out of bounds.
Speaking of whom, Zach, congratulations on proving my point. You took offense and said what I proposed was illegal. Not "uh, no I'm not, STFU." And I notice that you're a lot quicker to defend yourself than you are to denounce the people who came up with this disgusting story. Hurts when it hits closer to home, huh?
If you're going to plant moonbat conspiracy theories, at least get the relevant names correct, for Christ's sake.
I hate you with a fiery passion that knows no bounds Palladian...but LOL.
Kudos to Obama for sticking to his guns about children being off limits. Anyone who wants him elected would do well to listen him.
That's how rumors work?
Now it's wrong to point out when people lie and spread vile rumors because to mention it makes the rumor bigger?
"You must be new here. Bashing people is the only way many people here know how to get their point across. Hey, whatever it takes!"
How do you get your point across, cupcake? And what is your point anyway? You don't seem to have one most of the time.
Peter Bella smears on and on:
The better question is do you think anyone should be attacking a 17 year old girl. The whacked out netroots have proved that they are utterly shameless, amoral, and evil.
Bullshit. Ann Althouse and the right wing blogosphere did more to spread this rumor by posting over and over again about it.
I read left-wing blogs frequently and only heard of the rumor here.
You don't know what you're talking about, Peter. Show us the liberal leaders who were promoting this story. As opposed to one anonymous diary entry.
LSOS.
Yeah... I new, but not for long... This is garbage. Sorry...
Hi Ann... I've never posted on a blog, but aren't you kind of putting the cart before the horse? Rah, rah pro-life, but isn't the issue here more about parental guidance towards abstinence before getting married? As Barack Obama said in his acceptance speech, certainly we can agree on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies and that would largely reference pregnancies out of wedlock as is the case here. Your pro-life "conversion" comments are not really the issue, but the failure of the parents, in this case Governor Palin and her husband to bring their daughter up with proper values is.
"I hate you with a fiery passion that knows no bounds Palladian...but LOL."
I despise your ever loving soul, Zachary, but thanks :)
AlphaLiberal said...
"Reason Number 435 why liberals think conservatives are full of crap: conservatives say they don't oppose sex ed and contraception all the while their political movement runs around opposing sex ed and contraception. "
Reason number 6 why conservatives think liberals are full of crap: because liberals make wild unsubstantiated assertions, provide no evidence, get all huffy when asked to produce evidence, and eventually, when pushed, link to something that proves something completely different.
Once again McCain is inside the Obama campaign's OODA loop.
Having read through over nearly one thousand posts on this "issue" I am struck by the number of males who havent got the remotest idea about pregnancy, amniocentisis, down sydrome, labor and delivery, breaking ones water, age of a mother at pregnancy and its assorted risks, and a host of other medical issues. It doesnt look like sex education is needed--perhaps a trip to WebMD and search PREGNANCY. Looks like all some men are capable of doing during the process of reproducing is contributing some dna--they clearly dont understand a hell of about the physiology of human reproduction, growth and foetal development (damn--sounds like 9 old fart justices adjudicating Row v Wade, doesnt it). Of course, as long as the the men get off, what else matters.
Hurts when it hits closer to home, huh?
No, I was pointing out the two scenarios being completely incongruous. By all means, my local paper is the Press Telegram (or you could just do it in the LA Times). Please take out an ad so I can sue you for libel and become rich.
"That's how rumors work?
Now it's wrong to point out when people lie and spread vile rumors because to mention it makes the rumor bigger?"
Rumors work by being repeated. This rumor was on the left (among other places) only in remote and low-trafficked corners.
Then the right wing (including Althouse as near-right) catapulted these remote posts to give them more attention, and ignoring the other nonpartisan places the rumor was published.
Bingo: A rumor spreading like wildfire.
Meanwhile, McCain's abysmal judgment in this terrible pick is no longer the story.
Six months ago:
Reports are circulating of documentation that Chelsea Clinton is not Bill Clinton’s daughter. Documents have been found indicating she is actually the daughter of Hillary and Vince Foster, who allegedly killed himself. According to sources Vince Foster and Hillary Clinton had an affair while they worked together at the Rose Law firm. The affair produced Chelsea. Bill was never told the truth, as he was not around very much at the time. The documents are said to contain positive proof of this through DNA testing at the time of Chelsea’s birth. Prior to his death, Vince Foster was going to confess to being the father of Chelsea Clinton. Sources are stating emphatically they have proof that Mr. Foster’s suicide was faked to avoid his public statement.
What if something like this had hit the internet and the media while Hillary was running for President? How long do you think this would have lasted? Who would have had to apologize? Would the author still be alive or worse, would he be in prison? Would Hillary’s righteous anger have caused a national catastrophe?
The whole point of this is to demonstrate the VLWC to smear Palin by what ever method. Hillary, Bill, and especially Chelsea were off limits. Set up some goofy website or log into KOS and you can fuel anything you want; especially if someone is paying you to do it. There had to be some money somewhere for this ugly rumor to start.
AL, opposing "sex ed" that promotes the inevitability of teenage sex, even portrays it as consequence free (because sex is just sex) is not opposing sex ed *nor* opposing contraception.
That a whole lot of people don't like *your* version of sex education doesn't mean they oppose knowledge, education, and contraception.
Repeating that they do won't make it true.
"As Barack Obama said in his acceptance speech, certainly we can agree on reducing the number of unwanted pregnancies and that would largely reference pregnancies out of wedlock as is the case here."
It is the case here? Is Palin's daughter's pregnancy "unwanted"? Perhaps you should also listen to what Senator Obama said today: Back off Palin's family and children.
"Your pro-life "conversion" comments are not really the issue, but the failure of the parents, in this case Governor Palin and her husband to bring their daughter up with proper values is."
God I fucking love it! Liberals are shedding their Birkenstocks and Dashikis and dreadlocks and putting on whalebone corsets and thick cotton bloomers and pulling their hair up in severe buns and learning to cluck their tongues and pull their lips into puckers like cat's asses and condemn the shamefully loose morals of the wanton Palin and her brood of sinners!
Bristol Palin gets pregnant at 17 and decides not to kill her child and instead decides to proceed with her pregnancy, without applying for welfare and medicaid and instead chooses to marry her baby's daddy.
So NOT like a progressive, liberal democrat welfare parasite.
McCain has poor judgment for choosing Palin who actually is still the most qualified executive of all the candidates but Obama's choice of the bloviating hair plug, who is old enough to be his father and completely bereft of any executive experience is somehow proof of his wisdom and judgment?
Palin fires a rogue cop and that is a scandal, but Obama buys his home with the financial help of a criminal and that is not a scandal.
His wife just happens to get a huge pay raise at a non profit as soon as he gets elected senator and gets an ear mark to his wife's employer but somehow to the progressive mind that is not a scandal. Only a progressive can believe these things are not relevant , no ordinary person could such a fool.
It's like a reply of 1972. The progs will wake up the day after the election and won't be able to realize just how whacked and out of touch they are with reality and instead will start the giant conspiracy and we was robbed meme.
McCain/Palin in 08 and congress in 2010. Progs get back on your meds and get ready for the future.
I think it's hilarious that Sullivan is using "move on" in his description of what he's willing to do if Palin releases her medical records and satisfies him.
Somehow that phrase has a slightly twisty valence in a post MoveOn.org world.
I'm back, to give you this link by Time Magazine on the story.
I've notice that Time magazine, no friends to Republicans..., have been slightly more upbeat in their coverage about Palin's candidacy and story, than Newsweek.
It's a really nice story, with a lot of Alaskan perspective.
Well, ciao again! :)
Bristol Palin gets pregnant at 17 and decides not to kill her child and instead decides to proceed with her pregnancy, without applying for welfare and medicaid and instead chooses to marry her baby's daddy.
So NOT like a progressive, liberal democrat welfare parasite.
McCain has poor judgment for choosing Palin who actually is still the most qualified executive of all the candidates but Obama's choice of the bloviating hair plug, who is old enough to be his father and completely bereft of any executive experience is somehow proof of his wisdom and judgment?
Palin fires a rogue cop and that is a scandal, but Obama buys his home with the financial help of a criminal and that is not a scandal.
His wife just happens to get a huge pay raise at a non profit as soon as he gets elected senator and gets an ear mark to his wife's employer but somehow to the progressive mind that is not a scandal. Only a progressive can believe these things are not relevant , no ordinary person could such a fool.
It's like a reply of 1972. The progs will wake up the day after the election and won't be able to realize just how whacked and out of touch they are with reality and instead will start the giant conspiracy and we was robbed meme.
McCain/Palin in 08 and congress in 2010. Progs get back on your meds and get ready for the future.
DEMS - because the Republicans would've without a doubt done the very same thing.
You mean like how Republicans have used Obama's race?
Wait! That was Obama saying "they" would use race.
BTW - Obama disagrees with your point.
Peter, "What if something like this [Vince foster as Chelsea's father] had hit the internet and the media while Hillary was running for President? How long do you think this would have lasted? Who would have had to apologize?"
Probably no one. Because who would have breathlessly passed on such a silly rumor? I mean... Chelsea may be the spawn of space aliens but it's almost certain that Bill Clinton is her father and anyone trying to claim otherwise would be ignored.
I mean... can you even imagine the conservative analogue to Sullivan suggesting that all Hillary has to do is release Her and Chelsea's gene comparisons?
My bad I used placenta when I should have said amniotic sac.
However, the time line of the child's birth is questionable. When Sarah Palin's medical records are released everything should be cleared up.
McCain still has time to ditch palin and get the govenator!
And I owe Barack Obama an apology--didnt think he would disavow the attacks--he did, and that impresses me.
Sarah Palin should've taught her daughter about condoms.
To Alphaliberal
You have never backed up your claim that Palin is anti-birth control. I have not read one way or another that she is for or against birth control. Most people practice some form of birth control. Otherwise, there would be families like the Duggars. See Link.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24537885/
AlphaLiberal said...
Rumors work by being repeated. This rumor was on the left (among other places) only in remote and low-trafficked corners.
KOS is a low traffic corner? Why, I thought they were the new Democratic Party, out to change the old paradigms and all that. You mean Markos is a fake and the popularity of his site- millions of readers and subscribers- is a fraud? Who’d a thunk?
Zach, I'm impressed by your dedication to further proving my point. Far from shrugging and saying "uh, I'm not, STFU," you threaten to sue me in response to a vile personal smear. So, it appears that you do understand, after all, how a rumor can be ofensive without being true. Palin would be well within her rights (and well within Sullivan) to sue Kos - or at least the particular diarist - for every cent, although it'd be atrocious politics to do so.
and jk--what precisely are the timelines you are concerned about? you do understand the the child's birth is a matter of public record along with her birthweight and parents--so pray tell, what are your concerns
I doubt Bristol's marriage will have much of a chance to last. She's probably only marrying him cuz she got knocked up and her right wing parents told her she had to. But who knows, maybe this puppy love will survive. The teenaged father has gotta be excited that he gets to marry into the family of potentially yhe next VP and maybe even a future President, so he's set for life. Good jobs, good income, for life, just for knocking up a girl at school.
Peter Bella doggedly proving his ignorance:
KOS is a low traffic corner?
The front page of Kos is high traffic. The rumor was not on the front page. It was in a personal diary, which is low traffic. (And, anyone can post a diary in about 15 minutes. Anyone).
To your credit, I think you're playing dumb. I don't think you're actually as dumb as you make yourself seem.
"However, the time line of the child's birth is questionable. When Sarah Palin's medical records are released everything should be cleared up."
Wow.
Willful ignorance is alive and well.
I am not even sure this is a scandal, but it is confusing data to process. I'm trying to get a handle on Sarah Palin. All that I first heard about her and from her made her seem very likable. This does not diminish a favorable first impression, but one becomes more wary. We will learn more about her and, for sure, not all of it will be complimentary.....How would it hurt a kid to have a grandmother who was Vice President of the United States?
Simon @ 2:15:
How many people on the left have denounced the rumor?
Do I get any credit for denouncing these smears? I called Kos and Sully out on this, declaring that they were both assholes and idiots.
Synova--jk will not be heard from again--as a man, I feel compelled to apolgize to women everywhere for the loutish dolts who carry the xy chromosone.
KOS is a low traffic corner? Why, I thought they were the new Democratic Party
Why do people always play dumb about Kos diaries? Anyone can post a diary on Kos. Some of them are obscure. Some of them are attacked by the wider Kos community. Acting like one Kos diary means the whole of DailyKos is saying it, or the Democratic Party is saying it, would be like fishing for extreme comments on Althouse's blog and claiming it shows Althouse is a bad person.
It was Andrew Sullivan who brought it more into the mainstream of the blogosphere.
What does it say about McCain and Sarah Palin that they would knowingly put a young girl through such national embarrassment? I'm sure that she is loving having the details of her teenage sex life covered by Reuters.
If you all really cared about decency and respect and concern for children, you would be blasting McCain and Palin for this cruel, humiliating, and inevitable scenario borne from McCain's decision to pick Palin and Palin's decision to accept the position.
But no. None of you will go there. Hypocrites.
Come on, someone come up with an excuse for this one. I know you've got one.
You know, my phrase "dealing with the consequences" was pretty heartless. Apologies to all.
Roger J: thanks for recognizing what Obama said.
Simon: what else did Obama need to say to satisfy you?
ZPS--it says nothing about them and everything about you
pdv, I did post the link from a questionnaire when she ran for Governor, less than two years ago. It's been discussed further here.
One more time, here is the questionnaire where Sarah Palin comes out against sex ed and contraception. Second time I've posted it.
And, as I've said elsewhere here, I don't know how far her opposition to contraception goes.
Does she insist that Pharmacists should be able to withhold contraception if they choose, as so many on the right insist? Not sure, but would be surprised if this Princess of the religious right doesn't support that anti-contraception (and anti-freedom) position.
And I'll go on record as saying that Todd Palin's DWI is a complete non-issue. Libs need to stop grasping.
Democrats are now in a great position on this story. They can condemn the smears from anonynmous screennames on Kos, to show they are not standing for a gutter campaign. Then they can say they will not attack Sarah's pregnant daughhter, to show they are gonna to be nice to her. But this will also remind people that Sarah's daughter got knocked up!
Did McCain know about this before this weekend? He apparently only met Sarah Palin once, so Lord only knows what else will come out.
Peter: thanks and my thanks to you for representing liberalism as it should be.
"Why do people always play dumb about Kos diaries? Anyone can post a diary on Kos. Some of them are obscure. Some of them are attacked by the wider Kos community. Acting like one Kos diary means the whole of DailyKos is saying it, or the Democratic Party is saying it, would be like fishing for extreme comments on Althouse's blog and claiming it shows Althouse is a bad person."
Well put. It's a dishonest tactic used by Ann Althouse and others.
I do find it strange that Sarah Palin would knowingly put her daughter thru all this public scrutiny when she is dealing with a pregnancy. I guess lust for power trumps family values!
John Coale, a prominent Washington lawyer, husband of Fox TV host Greta Van Susteren and a supporter of Sen. Hillary Clinton, announced today that he was supporting John McCain for president. Coale, who traveled with Sen. Clinton, President Clinton and her family through out the primary season, complained of sexism, and said the Democratic Party is "being taken over by the moveon.org types" in an exclusive interview with Newsweek.com's Tammy Haddad."
Leading Clinton Supporter Defects to McCain
"But can she actually provide any support to her child when she's in an active campaign?"
Would the idea of giving Bristol $1000 to pay for an abortion qualify as "support"?
Help me out here.. I'm trying to understand what does "support" mean.
Liberals think this is relevent for two reasons. First, it allows them to point and engage in just the kind of stigmatization that they accuse the right of doing. They can now point to the Palin family and basically say "your little slut daughter got knocked up. So much for family values."
Second, it allows them to argue that a woman's place is in the home and that Palin has no business being anything but barefoot and pregnant taking care of her kids. The fact that they routinely smear the right for being sexist and accuse them of holding just such views never seems to matter.
The whole is just loathsome. You either believe in privacy or you don't. If you believe in privacy, you ought to be appalled by this woman's children being drug through the mud like this. If you are just a craven partisian, you don't care.
Democratic Underground is now digging through the kids friends myspace accounts for more dirt.
Link here.
Screen shot here.
I emailed the girl on myspace so hopefully she sets her profile on private.
"Obama is a smoker."
Obama is not only a smoker but his mother died of cancer (a disease for which genetic heritage is an extremely important element in one's general susceptibility) when she was only 6 years older than Obama is now. Thus, it's just as appropriate for Obama to release his medical records as for McCain. Indeed, since McCain's mother is still vigorously alive at age 95, maybe more so.
Michael McNeil
"I do find it strange that Sarah Palin would knowingly put her daughter thru all this public scrutiny when she is dealing with a pregnancy. I guess lust for power trumps family values!"
Oh just drop your "undecided" act and drop to your knees for Obama. We know you want to.
That's a funny new meme: How dare Palin accept the nomination and expose her daughter to hateful attacks by assholes like me?
If you're concerned about the kid's feelings, just STFU and your concerns are resolved.
I bet you Sarah Palin taught her daughter how to handle a rifle and kill an innocent moose for kicks, but somehow teaching her daughter about condoms was evil.
LoafingOaf said...
"Why do people always play dumb about Kos diaries? Anyone can post a diary on Kos."
And if I went there right now and posted a diary alleging something scurillous about Obama, it would be taken down in fifteen minutes. This one wasn't. Kos' control over what is on his site, and his proven willingness to remove posts that he disagrees with, makes him complicit in every post - not every comment, but every post - on his site.
"It was Andrew Sullivan who brought it more into the mainstream of the blogosphere."
How does saying it was one lefty blogger rather than another lefty blogger help you repudiate the charge that this was a vile smear cooked up by lefty bloggers?
Palin’s teenage daughter accidentally becoming pregnant should be important to voters because not only is Plain anti-abortion but anti-birth-control, and anti-sex-education for teens aside from abstinence-only.
Supporting a policy that prevents your own teenager is one thing, but her daughter's pregnancy makes it clear that the abstinence-only apparently doesn't work for preventing teen pregnancies.
This also exemplifies the obvious lack of extensive vetting or at least an open and honest representation of the Palin to the American public by the McCain people.
I can't even imagine the kind of outrage and comments we would see here if a Democrat had not mentioned something like this until they had already selected a V.P. nominee.
*And I love awesome's comment:
"I wonder which campaign operative leaked this info to the O'blogosphere?"
He thought we shouldn't know or that this would never surface unless someone from a campaign dredged it up? A V.P.s 17 year old unmarried daughter being pregnant??
Really?
"How does saying it was one lefty blogger rather than another lefty blogger help you repudiate the charge that this was a vile smear cooked up by lefty bloggers?"
But Simon, Andrew Sullivan has a Conservative Soul!
"Why do people always play dumb about Syria? Anyone can post a terrorist training camp in Syria. Some of them are obscure. Some of them are attacked by the wider arab community. Acting like supporting a lone terrorist camp means the whole of Syria supports it."
/fixed
Alpha: Well put. It's a dishonest tactic used by Ann Althouse and others.
Sure. Its not like Syria is responsible for what goes on inside its own borders...
You guys are "brilliant" [waves to Mary Mapes]
Oh just drop your "undecided" act and drop to your knees for Obama. We know you want to.
Hey, put up a thread about the pimp in the pulpit Obama was intimately associated with - the guy who said whitey spread AIDS - and I'll be happy to make fun of Obama in that thread. I like to attack all these politicians! Then I'll decide which phoney politician I'll vote for in November. ALWAYS a lesser of evils.
Zachary Paul Sire...
"What does it say about McCain and Sarah Palin that they would knowingly put a young girl through such national embarrassment?"
But m'lud, she asked for it! Did you see the way she was dressed? Your behavior in regard to this sewage has been despicable and unforgivable.
"Palin’s teenage daughter accidentally becoming pregnant should be important to voters because not only is Plain anti-abortion but anti-birth-control, and anti-sex-education for teens aside from abstinence-only."
I want primary sources for all these allegations. Put up or shut up, asshole.
I'm not telling Sarah Palin to quit her day job and stay home. But can she actually provide any support to her child when she's in an active campaign?
What is this comment all about? The girl is 5 months pregnant and there is no account that she's not healthy. She has a fiance. On election day, she'll still be two months or so from delivery. Unless there is a problem with the pregnancy, there is nothing she needs from her mother, particularly, during this phase, other than the occasional phone call or e-mail.
Are you saying she should be making caribou soup for her daughter? I don't recall my mother in law hovering over my wife when she was five months pregnant.
I'm stunned at the outbreak of selective traditional values among liberals since Palin's nomination. But just to clue people in, one of the great things about growing up in a big family is the "many hands make light work" phenomenon.
"I like to attack all these politicians!"
Really? Bristol Palin is a politician? Because that's who you've been attacking.
well Michael--this is easy--dont like who mccain picked for VP dont for him--easy huh?
Peter:
I thought Obama's statement was "pitch perfect," as they say. Like you, I wondered what Simon meant. As we can see, it hasn't stopped the loons any more than attempts on the right to put an end to the Obama-as-Muslim whispers succeeded. These things take on a life of their own and every moonbat & wingnut on the internet wants a part of it.
FWIW, I liked Tyler Cowen's response to this.
I think the Sarah Palin worshippers should finally admit there's much they don't know about this woman and they are starting to worry that McCain didn't fully vet her.
AlphaLiberal, as with so mnuch of your "evidence," your link doesn't support your claim that Palin is against contraception. Hard to tell where intellectual dishonesty leaves off and stupidity begins.
Simon: Do you think Sarah Palin took as much time to teach her daughter about birth control as she did in teaching her daughter how to shoot guns and kill animals?
And do you worry that Sarah Palin's daughter feels undue pressure from her parents to marry her teenage crush?
"I think the Sarah Palin worshippers should finally admit there's much they don't know about this woman and they are starting to worry that McCain didn't fully vet her."
Fuck off. Really. That goes for everybody. There's really no more point in discussing this. I'm taking Senator Obama's advice for now and not talking about politician's children.
But m'lud, she asked for it! Did you see the way she was dressed? Your behavior in regard to this sewage has been despicable and unforgivable.
Can't answer the question, can you? Your behavior in regards to this sewage has been (as usual) pathetic and hypocritical. Your ignorance is truly unforgivable, I thought you were smarter than this.
Meanwhile, it turns out that Sarah Palin Ran indicted Sen Ted Stevens’ 527 campaign slush fund.
This even though McCain tries to paint Palin as a reformer. And Palin says words to the effect (must go play, can't look up exact words now) that she wasn't a supporter of Ted Stevens, indicted for accepting bribes from oil companies.
Sarah Palin; the gift that keeps on giving.
"Simon: Do you think Sarah Palin took as much time to teach her daughter about birth control as she did in teaching her daughter how to shoot guns and kill animals?
And do you worry that Sarah Palin's daughter feels undue pressure from her parents to marry her teenage crush?"
Really, I'll say it again. Fuck off, scumbag.
this is probably the time for both candidates to have a joint press conference and denounce this crap--I would hope that would be the new politics--but my inner republican tells me it isnt going to happen on either side
I'm taking Senator Obama's advice for now and not talking about politician's children.
This is why it's so easy for Obama. He just has to be nice and not say a disparaging word. Across America we'll all be discussing Sarah Palin's knocked up daughter in our living rooms, no prompting needed from the Obama campaign. This is juicy! Wait till the National Enquirer gets involved!
I wish my grandmother had been the first woman VP of the US. It would have changed my life for the better. I would have settled for Senator. Did you see how Biden's and Clinton's children both work for hedge funds.
Americans, take note: These are the people (LoafingOaf, ZPS, AlphaLiberal, et al) who control the Democratic party today. These are people who are so fucking scared out of their wits that they're about to get fucked in yet another presidential election that they're willing to maul a 17 year old girl, a newborn Down Syndrome baby and anyone else that gets in their path to power. They're desperate, dangerous people. Senator Obama has disavowed their repulsive attacks but he is where he is because of them, and he can't control them. But they can control him. Think about this when you cast your vote in November.
"Across America we'll all be discussing Sarah Palin's knocked up daughter in our living rooms, no prompting needed from the Obama campaign. This is juicy!"
We don't discuss the sex lives of 17 year old girls in my living room, though I'm sure that's a regular occurrence in yours. Juicy? You're a fucking ghoul. As I said twice before: fuck off, ghoul. Third time's a charm.
No secret after all.
The whole town knew.
Simon, read much? You sure are lazy when it comes to making a point. Show us her contraception position to disprove the evidence I've brought forth. Are you say she's breaking with Dobson on this?
From the Q'aire:
"3. Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?
...
SP: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support."
Now I was pretty clear I didn't know how far she takes this. But it is opposition.
You could always try a less lazy approach and show me where she supports a right to birth control, dissemination of condoms to control births and unwanted pregnancies, and helpful sex education including "explicit" biological education.
Ignorance breeds!
palladian, you twit, I've been saying for two days that this should go away immediately and you come back here and falsely accuse me.
You = LSOS.
To others, we don't need this story as John McCain has shown by this pick he is another four years of George Bush. (First official act of George Bush? Cutting off international family planning services. Palin is more fo the same).
Look at that! Alpha just proved Palin is against proper sex ed! Like I said, she's okay with teenagers learning how to shoot guns at moose for kicks, but teaching them about birth control is "evil."
The Kosites got it on Digg, too. Is that a minor site?
Simon
I like Sarah Palin and her family seems nice, and much like any other American family. This has gotten too weird even for my dark side.
Palladian:
Look at the title of this thread and you might include Althouse on your list of ghouls for talking about the sex lives of 17 yr girls.
From the Washington Post:
...in our experience the [Obama] campaign has not pushed the story AT ALL...
-----------
george:
"Look at the title of this thread and you might include Althouse on your list of ghouls for talking about the sex lives of 17 yr girls."
Amen.
oaf: you shoot at moose to gain about a thousand pounds of awfully good meat--but you wouldnt know--dont be an idiot here--OK? Alaskans and good hunters generally dont take more than they need. I dont expect you to understand the ethos of hunting, and yes there are some bad apples, but a responsible hunter does NOT kill wantonly. Is that hard to understand?
LoafingOaf said...
"I think the Sarah Palin worshippers should finally admit there's much they don't know about this woman and they are starting to worry that McCain didn't fully vet her."
It's your meme that he didn't fully vet her, or that he only met her once. Since you're talking to someone who has been pushing her as a veep for a month or more, it's not like I'm just getting to know Palin this weekend. The only people who found this pick shocking are people who are woefully ignorant of what's been going on in conservative circles for the last eight months, where Palin's name as come up often.
AlphaLiberal said...
"Simon, read much? You sure are lazy when it comes to making a point. Show us her contraception position to disprove the evidence I've brought forth."
You haven't brought forth any relevant evidence. Why is it that liberals just don't grasp the concept of burden of proof - or even, it seems, relevant evidence?
loafing oaf, what are you, some conservative posing as a liberal troll?
If you are a liberal, then realize that everything you are saying is counterproductive.
Conservatives and swing voters are not going to cast their scorn on Sarah Palin because you think they should, no matter how much you spin and grasp.
Meanwhile, it turns out that Sarah Palin Ran indicted Sen Ted Stevens’ 527 campaign slush fund.
AL, I know it's hard, but you really should read all the way to the end of the things you post that supposedly support your views. This link says nothing of the kind. What it says is that when the 527 was incorported, Palin was "a" director listed on the incorporation papers. Neither story on this topic claims, as you did, that she "ran" it. You know damn well if Matthew Yglesias could've pinned that on her, they would've.
You also omit the fact that this 527 was incorporated in 2003. Stevens wasn't indicted until five years later. Was Palin supposed to know this was going to happen?
It's obvious that an up and coming party activist in a small state is going to get involved initially with the existing power structure. She focused her reformist zeal first on her own city, and only later on the state, once she had the ability to fight the establishment on fair terms.
I'm still up in the air over who I'm voting for, so I'm not carrying water for any of the campaigns. But these "revelations" about Palin so far seem utterly empty, with much less to them than meets the eye.
It doesn't help when illiterates like AL get related but different words confused. Maybe Kos is more your speed. The standards there aren't so exacting. You can say pretty much anything and get lots of applause.
Time Magazine:
So his name is Levi.
That's about the only thing that I didn't know about Bristol Palin's pregnancy. The rest of the details I picked up almost without trying, while talking about other things with townsfolk — some who know the governor and her family well, some who don't. It was, more or less, an open secret. And everyone was saying the same thing: the governor's 17-year-old daughter is pregnant, the father is her boyfriend, and it's really nobody's business beyond that...
Well, here's the deal: small towns have their own value systems, and in this situation those values are more a lot more valid than the dispassionate, pushy inquisitiveness that political journalism encourages...
Wasilla seems at times to be utterly without guile. It's a large part of the town's charm, and it's exactly the quality that could make an unorthodox pick like Palin pay off. Don't get me wrong — she's a tough politician with sharp enough elbows on her own. But still, she appears to be more steeped in the values of her hometown than any politician I've ever come across.
AlphaLiberal said...
"From the Washington Post: ...in our experience the [Obama] campaign has not pushed the story AT ALL..."
An assertion that they can't credibly make unless the identity of the Kossack who started this rumor is known. As long as that person remains anonymous, we have no idea how complicit the Obama campaign was in this.
Same article:
If you haven't guessed yet, the people here are genuinely friendly. Even those in Palin's inner sanctum who have been told since Friday not to talk to reporters by McCain's media team, are almost apologetic that they can't be neighborly and chat, since you came all this way to little Wasilla. And those who can talk, do. All weekend they had the decency not to pretend that they didn't know the governor's eldest daughter was pregnant. But they also expected decency in return, that I wouldn't be the kind of person to make sport out of a young girl's slip.
The fact is, regardless of what you will hear over the next few days, Bristol's pregnancy is not a legitimate political issue. Sarah Palin is a longterm member of a group called Feminists for Life, which is not opposed to birth control. So you probably can't tag her for consigning young people to unwanted pregnancies.
palladian @ 3:17 Americans, take note: These are the people (LoafingOaf, ZPS, AlphaLiberal, et al) who control the Democratic party today.
Really? Based on what evidence? None of those people use their real names around here, so there's no telling who they are or how much power they wield.
This makes as much sense as claiming that cedarford is one of the people who controls the Republican party.
"An assertion that they can't credibly make unless the identity of the Kossack who started this rumor is known. As long as that person remains anonymous, we have no idea how complicit the Obama campaign was in this."
Let's use the logic of a certain poster from above.
Certainly, it is possible that the anonymous diarist is a member of the Obama campaign or had been given information by the Obama campaign.
As such, we should consider it. It's only sensible.
Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin began building clout in her state’s political circles in part by serving as a director of an independent political group organized by the now embattled Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens.
Palin’s name is listed on 2003 incorporation papers of the “Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service, Inc.,” a 527 group that could raise unlimited funds from corporate donors.
How is being a "director" and "running" the 527 different?
John McCain was made aware of the pregnancy and felt that it didn't disqualify Palin in any way.
He didn't wait to see how it would poll. He didn't take the easy road. Principles over popularity. He can have my vote.
The Time article is quite nice. How about some props to the MSM for not screwing it up?
Don't get me wrong — she's a tough politician with sharp enough elbows on her own.
Pat Buchanan said over the weekend that Sarah Palin enthusiastically wielded one of his ptch forks in the Buchanan Brigades. That's not very nice. Buchanan didn't stand for nice things.
I wish Palin's daughter well. I just don't get why her mom would knowingly put her through a high profile national campaign knowing this was going on. I also wonder if Palin has changed her view on sex ed now that it seems she didn't teach her daughter about birth control. I also hope her daughter really is in love with the father (though how can she know at 17?) and doesn't feel pressured to marry him becauße of her parents' religious views.
"Pat Buchanan said over the weekend that Sarah Palin enthusiastically wielded one of his ptch forks in the Buchanan Brigades"
Pat Buchanan also turned out to be full of it. She wore a Buchanan button when he visited Wallisa, because she was Mayor. An article was published the next day and she immediately wrote the editor to have a correction printed.
As it happens, she was involved in the Steve Forbes campaign.
LoafingOaf said...
"I wish Palin's daughter well. I just don't get why her mom would knowingly put her through a high profile national campaign knowing this was going on."
More blaming the victim - "she asked for it, going out dressed like that!" You people are disgusting. And all the more disgusting because if the roles were reversed and it was a liberal politician being smeared, you would be the first to man the barricades.
Before we all leap--there's no proof or evidence that Palin is abstinence only. Her kids go to public school. And here's some stats:
Guttmacher Institute:
Alaska in terms of contraception: Among the 50 states and the District of Columbia, Alaska ranked * 1st in service availability; * 14th in laws and policies; * 1st in public funding; and * 2nd overall. http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/state_data/states/alaska.html
Come now, Peter, you understand exactly what he was saying.
Peter- I meant that it's people like the Kos brigade who seem to be gaining so much power over the Democratic party these days, power far out of proportion to their demographic numbers. It's precisely that these soldiers are mostly anonymous that should be worrying to the sane(r) people in the party. I didn't mean to tar and feather all Democrats with that brush, but I do fear for the future of the viability of the party. The Kos mindset is a losing one.
And if you indeed condemned the attacks on Palin's family, then my apologies Alpha. I'm afraid that I tend to scroll past your comments so I must have missed it. I still think you're a moonbat of the highest order, but I offer my commendation if you've had the sense and decency to condemn the family attacks.
Obama did. If liberals want to help him, then you better damn well heed his advice and lay off the smearing of Palin's children. This was your election to lose. Now I am beginning to think that you actually might succeed in doing that.
LoafingOaf, my comments to and feelings about you still stand.
Naughty children do not necessarily bad leaders make.
I would go further than this and ask what possible relation there is between the fact that Sarah Palin's daughter "slipped" and what kind of a leader Sarah Palin will make?
None.
She didn't teach Bristol how to say no, nicely? I'll bet they had that conversation scores of times. She failed because her adversary was "love?" Yes. And how many tens of thousands of mothers have failed for the same reason?
This is a non-issue which will backfire on the Left.
"The Time article is quite nice. How about some props to the MSM for not screwing it up?"
Actually, I think I will write the editors at Time regarding that article.
And I also have to tell you-- I sincerely hope that Palin represents a lot of the values that seem to be present in that town. This country could use a healthy dose of minding its own bidness.
I'm only technically a registered Democrat this year, because I took part in the Democratic Party's Ohio primary in order to vote against the Clintons, because I was sick of Clinton corruption and sick of the same old families running this country.
I've always been an independent and do not know who I'm going to vote for. I was leaning for Obama back before the primaries, and then I started feeling he was too far to the left, and frankly I got a bit tired of all the hype on him. I just don't know and haven't given the campaign my full consideration as I am waiting for the debates. I always thought McCain shoul've been the GOP nominee in 2000. Would've been a better Prez on 9/11 and its aftermath than Bush. that's for sure. But the Bush people smeared McCain in the lowest manner on record in modern political history, something many of you had no problem with.
For what its worth, I think it sucks that Palin's daughter is pregnant. It makes Palin herself seem more hickish and it is an unneeded distraction from Palin's positives. Nevertheless, she is still an outstanding choice.
The irony of this situation, however, is very interesting.
I haven't read all 348 posts, so I am sure this has been discussed, but how ironic is it that Obama himself was the child of an unmarried 17 year old. In the early 1960s when Obama was born, I believe that abortion was outlawed in Hawaii. It become legal only around Roe v. Wade. Obama's mother was very liberal and non-religious.
It could be that Obama himself is a living testament to the pro-life movement.
More blaming the victim - "she asked for it, going out dressed like that!"
Once again, Simon makes no sense. Questioning Palin's judgment for dragging her daughter into the national spotlight has nothing, in no way shape or form, to do with "blaming the victim." Talk about a non sequitor.
"The Kos mindset is a losing one."
Screw that. The reason for people to oppose it is that it is a shitty mindset. I don't think it is too much hyperbole to say it is diseased thinking.
Both sides need to purge their ranks, rather than ignoring them and pointing to the assholes on the other side. It is time for us, the sane, to reclaim our politics by casting out the insane, who have been unfortunately too well represented even here on Althouse.
Apparently, some posters here--mostly liberal--don't have a clue about pregnancy. It is not a "delicate" time. Most pregnant women can do anything non-pregnant women can do, including ride rollercoasters, go skiing and go on trips. Unfortunately, there is a hyper-pregnancy-is-risky element out there who make a living scaring the shit out of women (Parents magazine being one of the worst offenders.)
One of the most alarming things you learn as a father is how little you are really involved once conception has taken place. Your main job is to put up with the mood swings and, in some case, buy weird-ass food. During birth you stand around feeling like a lump on a log as the nurses and your wife/girlfriend do most the work.
Then, when your baby is born, you pick him or her up and get blown away at a surge of emotion you didn't know you had.
At the Saddleback forum, Obama said he wants to find common ground in order to reduce abortions in this country. For example, we can prevent unwanted pregnancies with sex ed. Is Palin changing her views on sex ed in the aftermath of her daughter's pregnancy? A lot of teenagers out there don't have as nice a situation allowing them to have and raise their baby as a teenager. Sex ed should be taught ad Palin should admit she was wrong on that issue. Obama has admitted he was wrong on some issues, such as welfare reform.
It could be that Obama himself is a living testament to the pro-life movement.
Obama wants to reduce abortions, as he stated very clearly at the Saddleback forum. He is pro-choice, not pro-abortion. Perhaps what you have stated about his own birth was a factor in bringing him to his view that we need to reduce abortions in this country. One way to do it is with sex education, something Palin was against in Alaska schools and - apparently - in her own home.
I, for one, am not the least bit scared of Sarah Palin. I like her, and nothing that I've read about her has dissuaded me from that. I've liked her ever since Simon started pushing her months ago.
I've been pushing a constitutional amendment that
would keep graduates from Harvard and Yale from hogging the presidency. I want to see more of Sarah Palin and others like her.
While I don't agree with Tim Pawlenty on a lot of issues, I respect that he is not the son of a well-connected father, as is the case with too many of the prominent Democrats in Minnesota.
Sloan @ 3:47 how ironic is it that Obama himself was the child of an unmarried 17 year old
Yes, Obama himself referred to that in his statement today.
One slight quibble: By the time he was born, though, his parents were married.
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