The 17-year-old daughter of Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is pregnant, Palin said on Monday in an announcement intended to knock down rumors by liberal bloggers that Palin faked her own pregnancy to cover up for her child.How bizarre! Is this just a coincidence or is this fact actually related to the rumors that went wild over the weekend, saying that Sarah Palin's new baby, Trig, was not her baby at all but her grandson?
Bristol Palin, one of Alaska Gov. Palin's five children with her husband, Todd, is about five months pregnant and is going to keep the child and marry the father, the Palins said in a statement released by the campaign of Republican presidential candidate John McCain.
Bristol Palin made the decision on her own to keep the baby, McCain aides said.
"We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us," the Palins' statement said.
"Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support," the Palins said.
The Palins asked the news media to respect the young couple's privacy.
"Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family. We ask the media, respect our daughter and Levi's privacy as has always been the tradition of children of candidates," the statement concluded.
Senior McCain campaign officials said McCain knew of the daughter's pregnancy when he selected Palin last week as his vice presidential running mate, deciding that it did not disqualify the 44-year-old governor in any way.
IN THE COMMENTS: mcg said:
Well, I know this is shameless of me, but my first step is admitting the problem, right? My mind immediately went to Obama's comment that if his daughters "make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."(Link for the Obama quote.)
John Lynch said:
It's an example of fitting in facts to a theory you want to believe. The Kos bloggers wanted something more bizarre, so they came up with it. Now, they'll be claiming vindication even when the primary smear, on Palin herself, isn't true.Ben (The Tiger) said:
Did someone leak this to someone else but get the details wrong, like in a child's game?That's the best explanation I've heard.
Sy said:
Well, Bristol was wearing an engagement ring at the announcement last week. Clearly, they were not trying to hide it. It's a private matter.MadisonMan said:
I think the way to support a child through a pregnancy is to be there for them, not to embark on a national campaign -- sure, it's "only" 2 months -- that will shine the spotlight on the child. Anyway, that would be my reaction as a parent.Oh, that looks like a meme. Sarah Palin must stay home with her special needs baby. Sarah Palin must stay home with her about-to-be-married, pregnant daughter. Ladies: Put your career on hold until everything in your family stops happening. I know, MM is a man and he's saying he'd stay home too, but would he? Would a man forgo his career to be there for a family member who is experiencing an important life transition?
Remember when John Edwards decided to go on with his campaign after his wife got a diagnosis of inoperable cancer? Now, I think Elizabeth Edwards was probably excited about the campaign and wanted to go on with it. In that light, why are you assuming that Bristol Palin isn't excited about her mother's campaign? Unlike Elizabeth Edwards, Bristol is not facing her last days. She's just starting out -- all caught up in life. Presumably, she's intense and positive about her pro-life beliefs, her love for the baby's father, her impending wedding, and the new baby on the way.
I imagine her eager to run around with the campaign, spreading the pro-life message to young people. Why should you think she would prefer to mope around the house, feeling ashamed, absorbing maternal comforting? On the campaign trail, she will be a loved and praised pro-life heroine, and she -- and her mother -- are likely to convert others to the pro-life side, with their glamorous and very positive image. Pro-choicers beware.
ADDED: In the comments Randy quotes my "Would a man forgo his career to be there for a family member who is experiencing an important life transition?" and says:
Ann, Joe Biden talks about facing that question when his wife and daughter were killed, and his sons injured, in that car accident. I can't recall anyone ever criticizing him for making the decision to remain in the US Senate and commute from Delaware to DC.
AND: The hunky boyfriend.
Posts
727 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 600 of 727 Newer› Newest»"But the Bush people smeared McCain in the lowest manner on record in modern political history, something many of you had no problem with."
Here is what I remember of 2000 in this regard. In SC, some people heard a rumor that McCain had an illegitimate black kid. There were no major pundits pushing the story ala Sullivan and there was nothing to match what was going on at Kos. You can search google and the wayback machine and you won't find anything of the sort. Could it have been coming from the Bush campaign? I would bet it most certainly was. Was it coming from the top of the Bush campaign or with their knowledge, or was it just some asshole down-ranks? I've never seen any evidence either way.
Then we had the "Catholic Voter Alert" phone-ads that the McCain campaign at first denied and then admitted as their own. Some might want to excuse McCain on this as doing it as a result of his unfair treatment in SC, but it is one of the primary reasons I was planning on sitting out this election despite my concerns with Obama. While we don't know that the official Bush campaign strategy was to smear McCain, at least in Michigan the McCain campaign strategy was to smear Bush. It really damaged his authenticity to me, which is one of my primary deciding factors in politics. McCain's pandering on the confederate flag and subsequent admission that he was pandering also played into me thinking he's not all that.
But Palin excites me. She quit her job over corruption that wasn't being addressed. And then she didn't give up, but came back to win and get rid of the corrupt. She seems to come from a place that is similar to the type of America I want-- friendly, without guile, hard working, and minding their own business.
I guess that is why she must be destroyed-- she appeals beyond the Evangelical core to people like me who couldn't give a damn about that and just want real, honest, hard-working and caring people to the greatest extent possible.
This is what Obama had to say today:
"Let me be as clear as possible," said Obama, "I think people's families are off-limits and people's children are especially off-limits. This shouldn't be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as governor, or her potential performance as a vice president."
I agree.
Well, I take an extreme minority view on killing animals, so I understand few will agree with me in the world as it is today. Killing is very popular, but against my morals. Not against Palin's morals. She cares an awful lot about a first trimester fetus, but can't extend that sort of compassion to a beautiful moose. No, she shoots the moose dead for a trophy and brags about it. But I can't be too judgmental about it as she was raised in a culture that pushes that pro-killing view that's part of her morality.
Maybe I'm the only one that finds it odd that people who wanna teach kids how to shoot animals with guns don't wanna teach them about birth control.
Joe, we learned the Bradley Method when my wife was pregnant with our second child. I definitely felt like a partner, not a lump on a log. We had a great birth center, right next to a major hospital, but feeling more like a home.
I was on the receiving end of the delivery. Greatest moment of my life.
Here's the information Campaignmoney.com has on Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service, Inc. 527:
Group Name Ted Stevens Excellence in Public Service Inc
Stated Purpose To increase the number of Republican women in elected offices and in appointed governmental and political positions, including advisory and regulatory commissions through training and education.
Email Address gshriver@gci.net
Established Date 03/17/2004
Contact Person Gloira Shriver
Contact Address 1515 West Thirteenth Avenue
Anchorage, AK 99501
Mailing Address 1515 West Thirteenth Avenue
Anchorage, AK 99501
Contributions Received $0
Expenditures Made $0
There were similar organizations set up in Idaho, Pennsylvania and on a national level. They are all focused on supporting Republican women in politics. The other ones, however, actually raised money, unlike the one in Alaska.
In search for information about this, it's fascinating how about 50 left-leaning blogs report this factoid, but not one digs into what the group's purpose was. And of course, like AL, they all fail to make the distinction between being a director (i.e. a member of a board) and actually running something.
So to review:
The Stevens 527 was focused on supporting female Republicans.
Palin was a female Republican.
The 527 in question raised no money.
The impression Kos et. al. want to create is that Palin was in the trenches fighting to help Stevens get re-elected by boosting his good name using a damn dirty 527. But the available evidence, including the WaPo story all the blogs cite, falls far, far short of confirming that impression.
Naughty children do not necessarily bad leaders make.
I don't think you go nearly far enough, Maxine. There is NO relation between the fact that Palin's daughter "slipped" and what kind of a leader Palin will make.
I'm sure she did her best. Probably had the how to say no, nicely, conversation with her daughter on numerous occasions. But she was up against "love." And lost. Like how many other mothers?
The more the foolhardy Left pursues this tack the more sympathy will accrue to Palin.
Zachary Paul Sire said...
"Once again, Simon makes no sense. Questioning Palin's judgment for dragging her daughter into the national spotlight has nothing, in no way shape or form, to do with 'blaming the victim.'"
Stop being obtuse. The left runs an apalling, inhumanly slimy smear against a politician and her family, and then has the temerity to blame the politician for choosing to make themselves a target. You're piling "blame the victim" on top of your already reprehensible conduct.
"Talk about a non sequitor."
Non sequitur.
I have made very few comments on this matter since it started. Unlike my usual verbosity. However I would like to call an end to this for a few days. I know it drives traffic, but enough is enough. Please post on dogs urinating or have RH show some naked chickens or let Mort call us racists. Enough already. Please.
This is a sad day in America when the only choice for a woman VP in 2008 is a woman who has no time to fulfill the duties of the office. ALL of her kids need her, not only the sweetie with downs syndrome, but her baby who is having a baby. SHE HAS 5 KIDS! Mothers with 5 kids under a certain age need to be the instruction and love and attention for their children.
The official word from Palin is this:
“We have been blessed with five wonderful children who we love with all our heart and mean everything to us. Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We’re proud of Bristol’s decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents. As Bristol faces the responsibilities of adulthood, she knows she has our unconditional love and support.”
“Bristol and the young man she will marry are going to realize very quickly the difficulties of raising a child, which is why they will have the love and support of our entire family. We ask the media to respect our daughter and Levi’s privacy as has always been the tradition of children of candidates.” [Source:CBS News]
It would be unfair to attack the family or the daughter for that matter. It’s Palin and her lack of ability to manage and rear her household that should be to blame. How can Palin “be proud” of her daughter’s situation? This is really strange.
By the way, Mrs. Palin, there is no such thing as “privacy” when you are running for public office. You knew this was coming with the territory.
What did she really expect the media to do with this news. She opened up herself to public scrutiny when she accepted the offer to run for the 2nd highest position in the land. What if, God forbid, McCain died, she would be in the seat of the Presidency. I could not possibly see her making the best choices for our Nation.
I almost think this is an intentional set up to help Obama win the election. Because the McCain camp knew this was an issue prior to selecting her. When Brittney Spears was running wild, who did they blame? THE MOTHER. When Jamie got pregnant, who did they blame? The mother. My point is that if Palin was paying attention and really there as a parent to her daughter, she would not be in this situation. She is not ready to serve as VP because she has some unfinished family business to attend to.
The mere fact that she did not turn down this offer to become VP means to me that she has her priorities in the wrong place and cannot make the best decisions for herself or her family, therefore the country.
LoafingOaf:
"I've always been an independent and do not know who I'm going to vote for."
My experience has been that for many if not most registered independents, being "independent" is a conceit - they are so independent that they'll vote for a liberal candidate no matter which party they're nominated by.
"No, she shoots the moose dead for a trophy and brags about it"
For a trophy and mooseburgers.
We, as a species, are carnivores.
Some choose a lifestyle that avoids meat, but most of us do not.
jamilascrockett said...
"This is a sad day in America when the only choice for a woman VP in 2008 is a woman who has no time to fulfill the duties of the office."
More misogynist claptrap peddled by an increasingly fearful left.
"My experience has been that for many if not most registered independents, being "independent" is a conceit"
I think that is unfair. I am a registered independent. I'll vote for either party, and have in the past.
Not only that-- I'm not a squishy centrist, either! I have strong opinions, on some things. On others, I haven't a clue about what is right.
Maybe I am alone in the world like a little CatDog. But I suspect there may be a few others like me.
Palladian said...
They're desperate, dangerous people. Senator Obama has disavowed their repulsive attacks but he is where he is because of them, and he can't control them. But they can control him.
This is one of the most truthful comments today. Palladian you get the ears and the tail for this! They absolutely control him. They represent millions of people who can destroy him, not by switching parties, but by just staying home on Election Day. That they will do if he does not toe their line. His biggest fear is not the Republicans or the Hillary defectors. His biggest fear is enough of these people not voting at all. That will sink him.
It is a shame that he must rely on millions of conspiracy theorists, lunatics, modern fighting liberals, and ists of all sorts to win. KOS, MYDD, DU, MoveOn.org can and will bury Obama if he does not continually appease them or ignore their lunatic fringe behavior.
How about a change of pace. I found this blurb in a Gustav article to be high-larious.
"Hattie Callan, 36, weaved her way down the street Sunday, a vodka drink already in her hand and it only 9:20 in the morning. She was staying behind to watch over several houses, and she wasn't worried.
"I've got liquor, cash, food, ammo and weed," she said as she floated out of sight."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GUSTAV_LEFT_BEHIND?SITE=AP
I don't see what the big deal is. Reports are that the pregnancy and engagement were well known in her home town and around the state. Palin revealed it to McCain before the final pick and according to Carly Fiorina, he considered it a private family mater and not a deal breaker. The religious leaders who have been contacted are all supportive and say they are glad she is following her mother's example and having the baby and they wish her and her future husband happiness. A quick trip around the convention floor indicates the delegates think it is a non-story.
It isn't like no other girl has ever gotten pregnant by her fiance before the wedding. I would venture there are a few on this blog who might fall in that category.
Obama has put out the word that the topic is OFF LIMITS and so are the children. What's he going to say, his mother was 18, unmarried and pregnant with him and the best she could do is marry a bigamist.
Why the skepticism as to whether a man would ever give up his career to care for a family member in need? I am NOT saying Palin should feel obligated to do so, just taking issue with the general assumption that no man ever would. I'm an Ivy League law school grad and I recently became a stay-at-home dad because my wife (who is still working f/t) and I decided that our 2 kids needed more hands-on care right now than they could get from a nanny. I'm not asking for a medal, not saying others (of either gender) should do as I did -- just asking for recognition that there ARE some men out there who take on a f/t caregiver role. Most cultural commentators seem to assume I and others like me don't exist...
Trooper York,
You sir are right. So this is for you:
Red
Sox
SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Why the skepticism as to whether a man would ever give up his career to care for a family member in need?"
There is no such skepticism here.
Todd Palin did just that.
However, the mostly sane here remain flabbergasted that there is the assumption by some that it must be the woman who has to do so, and if she doesn't there is something wrong.
It is misogynistic, it is sexist, and it is, unfortunately, par for the course when it comes to trying to score political points.
Brilliant moves by the Left these last few days. Force Palin out of the campaign by attacking her family. Keep it up and this election will be OVER by end of week.
How about a thread about the dread that Labor Day is ending and REALITY is beginning again? Or am I the only one that feels that dread? All grown ups here?
There's a lot we don't know about Palin. McCain didn't do much vetting, but he'll get lucky and nothing will blow up in his face too badly. Over at Koss they have this new story about Palin associating with the Alaska Independence Party. Not sure what to make of that yet, but Kos seems to be one of the places to go for the breaking news.
UWS guy and LoafingOaf used to be sane people. Then, for some reason, over this past weekend they became troglodytes. Odd.
Well, you know...some of us might drink our way through Labor Day weekend?? :)
MadisonMan,
I had pretty much the same first reaction as you did - it would be better off, if she looked after the needs of her family, given that all that has happened.
But this is where Ann Althouse poses an interesting question - why is this not expected from men ?
Consider this - T
A.The Democratic candidate for Veep, Joe Biden lost his wife and daughter in a tragic car accident when he was 29 - his toddler son Beau was injured in the crash - Biden took his oath to the Delaware Senate at the hospital bed of Beau. He did not put his career on hold, but he changed his life around it.
B.Potential Veep candidate John Edwards continued running for President even after Elizabeth Edwards breast cancer recurrence. Not many people asked him how he could do this - i remember people comparing the Edwards to the Kennedys - i.e. they both shared a tremendous energy for public service.
C.Barack Obama has been away from his two girls for most of the last 3 years - when he becomes President he will be futher removed from his young girls - which is sad considering that quite a number of African American fathers are mostly unavailable in their children's lives - and Obama is supposed to serve as a role model for good parents who are closely involved in the lives of their young children. So, who's picking the slack ? Michelle Obama ofcourse.
Sarah Palin is not facing a situation that Biden faced or the Edwards faced. Her situation is comparable to Obama's.
None of us know how the families of the Palins and Obamas are going to deal with their vastly changed lives - but we should have the humility to recognize that they care more for their families than we possibly can - and they have plans to deal with it.
If you can afford Obama the benefit of the doubt on how he is going to deal with his family, if you could do it to a 29 year old Joe Biden who suffered a tragedy very few people recover from, if you could afford it to a man whose wife, you could very well afford it to a woman who has a Down syndrome baby and has a pregnant teen daughter.
Thats what Althouse is trying to tell us.
Btw, Obama's mother himself had him while she was in her teens - some thing which should not be lost on his supporters.
Is this great White Trash stuff or what? Can't wait for the next episode to unfold. Go Christians!
LoafingOaf said...
"There's a lot we don't know about Palin. McCain didn't do much vetting...."
That's your assertion, not a fact. Still haven't seen any evidence for it, and it stands contrary to what's been reported even in the MSM
"Not sure what to make of that yet, but Kos seems to be one of the places to go for the breaking news."
It's certainly the place to go for the latest hot-off-the-press lies and smears.
Paco Wové said...
"UWS guy and LoafingOaf used to be sane people. Then, for some reason, over this past weekend they became troglodytes. Odd."
The prospect of a conservative woman shattering a glass ceiling is unacceptable to them.
Pursuant to an earlier post of mine: "Palin’s teenage daughter accidentally becoming pregnant should be important to voters because not only is Plain anti-abortion but anti-birth-control, and anti-sex-education for teens aside from abstinence-only."
Palladian said..."I want primary sources for all these allegations. Put up or shut up, asshole."
I have no idea why you're calling me an asshole, but here's my response:
From conservative Eagle Rock Forum Alaska:
Palin took a hard line on a question in 2006 from the conservative Eagle Forum Alaska:
Q: Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?
SP: Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.
Anchorage Daily News / The Associated Press / Published: November 3, 2006:
In November 2006, then gubernatorial candidate Sarah Palin declared that she would not support an abortion for her own daughter even if she had been raped.
She opposes abortion for rape and incest victims, supporting it only in cases where the mother's life is in danger.
She also is also a supporter of abstinence-only education and opposes sex education programs.
but Kos seems to be one of the places to go for the breaking news.
Laugh of the day. The Kossites don't know what news is. They're trying to influence voters by putting out the strangest and most implausible rumors, and then engage in a giant circle jerk around their little bon mots.
News that cuts against their agenda is not only ignored, but commenters who dare mention a story from the unapproved list are summarily banned.
Bar none, Daily Kos is the worst thing that has happened to politics in the last 10 years. If Obama loses, I think it's fair to assign a huge amount of the blame to Kos and his robots.
And here's the NYT, claiming that this news brings "more tumult" to the convention. What tumult? Once again, the MSM fabricates a reaction based on its own prejudices about how conseratives might react, and runs with that instead of actually, you know, reporting. I guess that after this weekend, we can add "professional journalist" to the list of oxymorons.
simon: Here's a link to a pretty good article relating to the vetting process:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/us/politics/31reconstruct.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=palin%20vetting&st=cse&oref=slogin
The article lays out any number of people considered, including this portion of the report:
After Mr. McCain contacted Ms. Palin, Mr. Schmidt and Mr. Salter (close advisers) met with her on Wednesday in Flagstaff, Ariz. It was not until the following morning that she traveled to Sedona to meet with Mr. McCain, who then sat down with her for his only interview of a potential running mate.
Within hours if not minutes after the interview was concluded, Ms. Palin had the job.
fen,
How is the left "attacking" her family?
My first thought was "The Palin family seems to be absolutely incapable of ever doing anything the easy way." I have to admit I respect that.
My second thought was "Why is it that everything about Sarah Palin somehow reflects back on Barack Obama?" Indeed, the first decently graceful comments I saw on the matter were from the child of a teenaged mother and the father of two daughters - Obama himself.
I think Joan's reaction to my comments is probably the best. If I were to hear of my daughter's pregnancy, my first inclination would be to stick close to my baby and help her. But yes -- I think she would bridle at that eventually. Probably really really soon! Assuming she is healthy -- and I'm sure this is a low-risk pregnancy -- Bristol will be fine and her parents will have nothing to do but watch and hope for the best. That's all many parents can do when their kids make choices that you know aren't the best. (And I'm NOT TALKING about abortion here. Please.)
Today I first heard this bizarre twist of events -- and really, who would have predicted last week that the VP nominee's teenage daughter would be pregnant! -- my first inclination as a parent would be to stick close.
And I agree the Time Article on the pregnancy was nicely done. Reminds me of many small towns I grew up near. Yes: everyone knows your business!!
Simon, it doesn't bring tumult to the Convention, but it distracts. I'm sure Conventioneers will be chatting about it instead of listening to the fascinating speeches.
If Sarah Palin was Every Woman before this announcement, is she not so now? How many extended families have been untouched by a teenage pregnancy or pregnancy before marriage? Those who cannot recall a nephew or niece being involved in this type of life decision may only be in the dark because abortions are a confidential matter.
If the true issue is hypocrisy, then I will still point to Al Gore and John Edwards as flagrant hypocrites who refuse to sacrifice any bit of self for their principles.
Michael, you're posting the same reheated off-point tripe that Alpha tried to foist on us earlier.
Your claim was that Palin is not only "anti-abortion but anti-birth-control, and anti-sex-education for teens aside from abstinence-only." The evidence you offer up provides support - and only very limited, qualified support - for one of those three propositions. Palin was asked: "Will you support funding for abstinence-until-marriage education instead of for explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics, and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?" She replied that "[y]es, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support." That says nothing about her views on contraception generally, and offers only limited, non-definitive support for your characterization of her view on sex ed generally. Go back and re-read Enigmaticore's 1:11 PM comment, which hits the nail squarely on the head: the evidence you've adduced "says she opposes contraceptives being distributed by schools. That's quite different than saying she opposes birth control. ¶ I don't support schools distributing Bud Select. That does not mean that I oppose Bud Select."
As Palladian said, earlier, "I want primary sources for all these allegations. Put up or shut up, asshole." You have yet to put up, and as to why he's calling you an asshole, if I had to guess, it's because you're spreading an unsubstantiated rumor and trying to support it with MoDo Jujitsu.
Abstinence-only doesn't work. Kids today are shown to be increasingly ignorant about babies and birth control
Studies generally show that sex education programs don't work, period, whether they are abstinence-only or birth-control based. Unsurprisingly, teenagers already KNOW they can get pregnant from sex, that adults don't want them to have sex, and that condoms and other birth-control methods help prevent pregnancy. Sex education is mostly about making adults feel like they're doing something about teen pregnancy.
Freeman,
"Now it will be fun to watch the liberals with no understanding of evangelicals be shocked when evangelicals don't freak out about this."
You're certainly nicer and/or more optimistic than I am--my first guess is that they'll just write it off as cynical hypocrisy in service of our politics.
Bored,
"I find it interesting though that the holy and pure answer is to have a 17 years get married right away. I guess an adoption would not fly."
Your mocking words make no sense. Who, besides you, said getting married rather than giving the baby up for adoption was "holy and pure"? Gag me. Rather, "getting married" is simply what the actual people in this particular case actually decided to to, not somehow an exposition of The Only Proper Response For All Time.
My theory is that someone in Alaska knew there was a bun in that oven, but they faced a problem: How do you make a political issue of a woman's almost-18 daughter getting pregnant? Well if she has recently had a baby herself I can now think of one good way.
Of course this may be part of McCain's elaborate strategery. Palin is obviously a trap for Obama supporters: A sitting governor is unqualified because she was a mayor, while a community organizer cum senator is Abraham Lincoln? How is that going to sound to Jane Winebox?
I can think of several questions an independent voter inclined to support Palin might ask about the Bristol story: How many illegitimate Kennedys are there? If her enlistee son had gotten a girl pregnant would it have been this big a deal? If one of Biden's sons has an illegitimate kid would that be a big deal? Has Team Obama checked? Has Mickey Kaus checked?
Michael, your article cuts against the WaPo's account. Given that the NYT's version would lend credence to an Obama supporter meme, we can dismiss it to the extent it contradicts any credible source.
What you people don't seem to understand is that Palin was not a bolt from the blue. Her name has been in circulation since McCain wrapped up the nomination, and the only surprise you'll find on the right is more reflective of the fact that we wanted him to do it but didn't expect it. If the professional media was genuinely shocked by the pick, and didn't realize her name was in play, they're all guilty of professional malpractice and their employers should fire them fothwith for an utter failure to be minimally competent in following political events.
nagarajan: point taken.
How old is the Father? Is it a relative? Did she consider abortion? Are the parents forcing her to marry the father because of political ambitions?
She also is also a supporter of abstinence-only education and opposes sex education programs.
No, she opposes explict-sex eduction programs and if you pretend you don't know what those are, you are being very disingenuous.
Most Americans support basic, factual oriented, sex eduction in schools. Most Americans to not approve of using those programs to demonstrate how to put on a condom, having their kids be told that abortion is a good option for pregnancy or being shown films that leave little to the imagination.
(I oppose abstinence only programs--I don't think they work--and am not the least bit bothered by explicit sex education classes. But, I've never supported any candidate in every respect--hell, I probably wouldn't even support myself in every respect as a candidate for public office [running for office always requires compromises.])
"McCain didn't do much vetting,"
From where I sit, it looks like he did, and it seems he knew that the fringes (which you seem to be shooting to join) would froth over non-issues and discredit themselves.
In other words, what you keep pushing as "bugs" are actually "features".
But feel free to push the newest smear, that Palin is secretly part of a moment to secede Alaska from the union. Go right ahead. LOL!
"UWS guy and LoafingOaf used to be sane people. Then, for some reason, over this past weekend they became troglodytes. Odd."
On UWS, not so much. He always struck me as far less reasonable than people treated him around here.
LoafingOaf? Well, all I can say is it is sad to see.
Why would Palin reveal this now? It's not as though the rumors of Trigg being her grandchild were ever really a threat, since they were false and would be easily disproven; so it couldn't be that she revealed it now to quell those rumors, as the press reported.
This reminds me eerily of when obviously faked Texas ANG memos were leaked to liberal former CBS anchor Dan Rather. The documents were never really a threat, because their proportional type face made them easy to disprove.
At the time I thought that was an obvious strategy to take the sting out of any real documents that might subsequently come to light. But in the mean time, the faked documents would cause people to scoff at and scorn any allegation that W. had not met his ANG committments -- because that story had been revealed as a fake.
Here, who benefits by making liberal bloggers look like idiots? Obviously the McCain-Palin campaign. Who leaked the story? VB thought it was an obvious plant. Maybe someone inspired by Karl Rove and his dirty tricksters.
Publicizing the rumor also puts her daughter's teenage pregnancy in perspective. There's a famous old joke called "Letter from College to Mom and Dad." The purported coed author tells her parents about a fire in her dorm room, her stay in the hospital, and her pregnancy-inspired engagement to a black man. The letter ends by putting her real problem -- flunking biology -- in its proper perspective:
Now that I've brought you up to date, I just wanted to let you know -- there was no dormitory fire, I didn't suffer a concussion or a skull fracture, I wasn't in the hospital, I'm not pregnant, I'm not engaged, I don't have syphilis and there is no boyfriend of another race or religion in my life.
HOWEVER, I AM flunking biology, and I just wanted you both to see this in its proper perspective.
Your loving daughter,
I learned about sex the old fashioned way, on the streets and from my est-while buddies. It was effective way back then, unlike today's sex-Ed classes where girls learn how to put condoms on pickles. Pickles, for goodness sake!
So, is there anything truly pertinent to anything that's being discussed on this Althouse post?
Seems like this posting has lots of comments but little relevance to anything, at least from the commenter's side of things! Pity!
Don't Christian Conservatives generally dislike premarital sex?
No, actually, I'm pretty sure Christians of all stripes love sex. That's why there are so many of them.
That's also why there are so many restrictions on it, in not just Christianity, but most religions.
Especially when it is leads to a teenage daughter becoming pregnant?
I'm unaware of any specific prohibitions about becoming pregnant.
Socially, it's frowned upon, of course. It's not called "getting caught" for no reason.
Don't get your shorts in a knot Republicans! Liberals will not be making a big deal about Bristol's pregnancy. Liberals don't think that sex is wrong. Sex is a scandal only in the minds of a certain block of Republicans, those wacko so-called Christians who don't actually live according to the teachings of Christ and the nature that God created but rather according to Falwellian principles. God created females that ovulate, on the average,at 12 years of age. God, therefore, says that sex is appropriate at that age. But the Falwellians don't believe in following God's will but instead choose to follow Jerry and his cohorts.
So don't worry Republicans, the Dems won't be making a big deal out of Bristol's pregnancy. You're the ones who say her actions and results are wrong.
Young parents are like young pioneers? WTF??
I don't understand the negativity surrounding Clinton. The last good president we had was Clinton. Sorry Republicans, even though you have intelligence and logic, your charm just never has won me over. The thing of it is, if you're going to scrutinize Clinton's personal life, why don't you do the same to Palin?
I think the whole situation is hilarious, really. She's pregnant and that's cute they think it's a blessing arising from abstinence-only education, but people are regarding it negatively for a reason.
Doesn't it bother anyone else though, that Palin makes absolutely no goddamn sense?
She cares an awful lot about a first trimester fetus, but can't extend that sort of compassion to a beautiful moose.
Moose are beautiful to you because you don't have to live with them. (Same with lions, tigers, and bears! Oh My!) In AK, they're a nuisance.
Anyway you're right: That is an extreme minority position, and a disgusting one to boot, comparing human life (however young) to animal.
This thing just illustrates on point - perhaps if the wingnuts would not insist on that riduculous abstinance only education the girl might have lowered her risk of getting pregnant.
I love how abstinence always gets the blame. According to Planned Parenthood, half of all pregnancies were conceived while USING birth control.
For all we know, they were using birth control and it failed. Or maybe they left the condom in the car, and went ahead anyway.
Why everything thinks teenagers are going to be 100% responsible with birth control is beyond me. I don't know why we trust them cars . . .
Victoria said: "I am not perfect, that's not what I mean, but I know there is a line humans don't cross without losing their humanity.
Not sure many of these people had any humanity to lose.
The problem is that some people don't understand what is and is not a scandal. I agree this teenage pregnancy is not news and certainly is irrelevant in the campaign. Although it is interesting that a lot of the righties who are (legitimately) complaining about people who are making political hay out of this were absolutely merciless in their attacks on Al Gore III and his drinking problems the past few years in an attempt to drag down his father.
However we are learning more and more about (as one commenter here called him sarcastically a few days ago) "poor ol' trooper Wooten." Specifically that almost all the complaints that were made against his record were made by, yes, Sarah and/or Todd Palin. The only complaints that were substantiated were shooting a moose and using a taser on his stepson-- for which he received a ten day unpaid suspension. Which should have been case closed.
A teenage pregnancy is not a scandal. But using your office to move forward a petty personal grudge is a scandal.
I bet if McCain wins and then dies at the average lifespan for men his age (74) then Palin will indeed keep Gitmo open, and use the powers of the Presidency to send Mike Wooten and Walt Monegan there. She's that vindictive.
luz:
According to Planned Parenthood, half of all pregnancies were conceived while USING birth control.
Link? The figures I've seen indicate that the number is less than three percent.
Having a teenage daughter pregnant it’s not the end of the world. Of course the fact has to be accepted by the family (what else are you going to do?). But we have to understand that if such event happens it’s not good news for a family. As a parent you cannot be happy with this. For sure it’s not something you might want in the news when you run for VP position. Not because Sarah Palin has anything to do with that (other than a lax education in that matter) but because the media will be more focused on this event rather than on what she is trying to say as a VP runner.
That daughter is quite the slut! I wouldn't be suprised if retarded baby is her;s, and she got immediatley pregnant a second time right after delivering him !
What a trainwreck this Palin family is! Now let's all join together in the anthem:
All hail the messiah, Obama, Obama
The Path to the new socialist motherland!
Our savior our savior obama obama
the leader more famous than lindsay lohan
bow down and praise the one
give him your money and your guns
give us the country that makes your wife proud
Lord Barry heal the bitter ones
White and clinging to faith and to guns
Hope for the change for the hope for the change!
I bet if McCain wins and then dies at the average lifespan for men his age (74) then Palin will indeed keep Gitmo open, and use the powers of the Presidency to send Mike Wooten and Walt Monegan there.
Works for me. I might have to vote for her twice now.
"For all we know, they were using birth control and it failed."
This is a good point. I didn't mention it earlier when I mentioned how our first was unplanned and pre-marriage, but he was also despite birth control (albeit, improperly used, as a day of the pill was missed).
I am willing to bet a good amount of money that Levi and Bristol knew that what they were doing could result in pregnancy. They just thought the odds were better than they were.
What a trainwreck the Palin family is for McCain!
Now let's all join together for the anthem:
All hail the messiah, Obama, Obama
The Path to the new socialist motherland!
Our savior our savior obama obama
the leader more famous than Lindsay Lohan
bow down and praise the one
give him your money and your guns
give us the country that makes your wife proud
Lord Barry heal the bitter ones
White and clinging to faith and to guns
Hope for the change for the hope for the change!
mark said...
"Don't get your shorts in a knot Republicans! Liberals will not be making a big deal about Bristol's pregnancy."
Hilarious that you can spout this total claptrap when it is so ably rebutted by the reality of the last 72 hours. Have you been living under a rock or something? Liberals have been "making a big deal about Bristol's pregnancy" - their doing so has dominated the blogosphere this weekend. And you'll find that, by contrast, conservatives don't much care.
You people are so intellectually dishonest that it's beyond belief.
Peter Hoh wrote:
The Time article is quite nice. How about some props to the MSM for not screwing it up?
Hey, Peter. :)
I know this thread is hard to follow, but how about some props for me? I'm the first one to link to this Time Magazine article and I said:
I've notice that Time magazine, no friends to Republicans..., have been slightly more upbeat in their coverage about Palin's candidacy and story, than Newsweek.
It's a really nice story, with a lot of Alaskan perspective.
I'm sure I'm not the only Righty who was pleasantly surprised by the fair tone of this article.
Unlike LoafingOaf, who thinks killing a moose is the equivalent of killing Bambi for fun, they understand that Alaska is not the local strip mall suburbanite culture.
You learn to hunt as part of their Native heritage, and frontier culture, not because they're ghouls.
Cheers,
Victoria
I home school. That makes my younger children safe from government mandated education on the various forms of perversion. Of course the older children were early informed, thanks to Bill Clinton.
I'm here with my mum, after our Labour Day early supper with my parents.
I'm reading her some excerpts of this thread, from both sides.
Palladian, she died laughing about your cluck-cluck post, and wants to ask:
"Since when did the Liberals become Conservatives? Aren't they the tolerant, inclusive ones who aren't sexist or judgemental towards moral failures?"
It's like living in alternate universe where black is white and wet is dry.
Cheers,
Victoria
She also is also a supporter of abstinence-only education and opposes sex education programs.
You make it sound as if this would make any difference in the world of a teenager. You think 15, 16, 17, 18 year olds don't know about sex? Didn't get out much in h.s., did you?
When I was in 9th thru 12th grade, we only had one pregnancy in the whole school in those 4 years.
That was long before there was any sex education in the schools.
Today, my granddaughter tells me there are 4 pregnant girls in her class alone and more than 2 dozen in the whole school. And in some very blue states, they are even making pregnancy pacts.
So tell me how sex education helps or hurts?
Mormons probably have fewer unplanned teen pregnancies of any large group in America and their approach is to start when the kids are little teaching the sacredness of marriage and family. At puberty, they talk about hormones and the urges that will come as teens in the context of God's way of preparing them for the most sacred act of all, marriage and children. But, they also understand that it gets harder the older the teen is to stay celibate, so they encourage young marriages. Take a look at the size of married housing at BYU as an example and the community support for their young families.
Frankly, when I'm around older teens and twenty-something girls, I'm appalled at the slut factor, the foul language, and the absolute belief in all of them that sleeping with someone on the first date is no big deal and the more hook-ups the better.
By the way, Eli, the life expectancy for a 72-year-old white male is 12.2 years-- not 2 years.
Here, who benefits by making liberal bloggers look like idiots? Obviously the McCain-Palin campaign. Who leaked the story? VB thought it was an obvious plant. Maybe someone inspired by Karl Rove and his dirty tricksters.
Maybe you missed all of my posts last night when I said, and I quote, that if I would be SHOCKED if Obama had anything to do with his. He has "none, zero, zilch" to do with this.
However, now I am beginnig to think the following happened.
If the Time Magazine article is true, and everyone in Wasilla knew that Bristol Palin was pregnant, then SOMEONE (who knows who, it could be a blogger, or someone who heard it on Twitter, etc. etc.) realised Palin had to go public with the news eventually.
And in the fine tradition of throw up mud and see what sticks, they started a Chinese whisper campaign surrounding Trig Palin not being Sarah Palin's child, but she covered up for her daughter Bristol.
Notice they didn't mention Willow, the older of the two, and the one more logically likely to be more active sexually. No, they went STRAIGHT for the younger daughter, on the basis of:
- Holding her "son" during the Dayton rally
- A "bump" she showed in an official portrait that could either be pre-partum or post-partum depending on which lunatic conspiracy theory you credit (a photo now known to date from 2006)
- That she had "mono" and went missing mysteriously from school
- That she was seen twirling a ring on stage
And THIS crap was the basis of libelling this poor girl, her mother, and her baby Down Syndrome brother?
It's sickening, and you can sure bet the Christian Conservatives now remarkably energised by this family will not allow anyone to forget it come November.
Cheers,
Victoria
Simon should be honest enough to admit he's holding his breath that nothing truly damaging will emerge about Sarah Palin, now that we're realizing how little McCain vetted her. Over the weekend, Pat Buchanan told us that Palin was an enthusiastic member of the Buchanan Brigades, and the blogosphere is currently buzzing over Palin's associations with the secessionist Alaska Independence Party. We'll see how it all shakes out. I thought she seemed like a very likable person when she gave her speech the other day. What disturbed me was when I found out she hadn't given any thought to Iraq policy and then when I found out McCain did a minimal vetting of her. I'm worried that she is currently trying to cram on the major foreign policy issues in order to bluff her way through the campaign.
She didn't know that "under God" wasn't part of the Pledge of Allegiance until the 1950s, yet issued a strong statement in defense of the Pledge where she revealed that she thought the Pledge and the "under God" part went back to the Founding Fathers. When she is asked in the campaign about various foreign leaders and she will try and speak authoritatively about them, won't you suspect she is just faking it?
I hope I'm wrong. I like McCain and have always thought Obama vs McCain would be a very healthy and positive choice for America. I don't wanna think McCain recklessly picked a running mate without properly vetting her. If anything happened to President McCain, we would have President Palin. It's her job to demonstrate she is up to that job. I'm open to her if she can demonstrate that. I'm just a bit puzzled as to how she will, given that November is coming up pretty quick now. She'd better blow us away in the debates.
Honest now, liberals pushing the 'sex-ed' relevance.
Do you honestly believe, in the bottom of your hearts, that Bristol Palin and Levi were unaware that sex could lead to pregnancy?
Unless you believe that, then you are using the kids as political footballs.
P.S. I've already heard right wing pundits saying that they are glad the bar is being set very low for Palin before she debates Biden, because then if she comes off as not as bad as Democrats said she'd be she would look good.
The thing is, that reminds me of Bush. I don't want another Bush.
But whatever anyone thinks, I honestly hope PAlin is as great as some of you think she is. I just suspect some of you are merely praying she is and have as little idea as I do.
Even InsaPundit said it was a "fair hit" on Palin to mention the sex ed stuff. Some of you need to stop being so protective of your beauty queen. If she's ready to be VP she can handle a few hits, especially hits that even InstaPundit declares "fair."
La dee da ... Victoria spends a day with her parents but can't even steal away from Althouse for more than a couple of hours !
What must her parents think? As they try to connect with her, their daughter is sitting in front of a machine.
Yes here's our Victoria, back on the boards, trying to convince anyone who will listen that Palin is a saint. Such a struggle for that Victoria!
What kind of parents would force their child into an unwanted marriage?
Oaf, you aren't fooling anyone any longer. You slipped out of character while the camera was on.
I am willing to bet a good amount of money that Levi and Bristol knew that what they were doing could result in pregnancy.
This is the trouble with being good Christian young people. Preparing to have sex is sinful, so the girl will not get birth control, nor will the boy obtain condoms. (In a small town, buying condoms announces to one and all who's going to have sex.) Yet young couples in love who spend significant amounts of time together are almost certain to have sex. The result is pregnancy, marriage, and childbirth.
Liberals do not scorn single pregnant women, because they have not imposed unrealistic expectations on them. The most a liberal will do is ironically say "There's another victory for abstinence education."
What kind of parents would force their child into an unwanted marriage?
Why assume the marriage is unwanted? Most likely theirs is a love match the same as the Palins. The most you could say is they should have waited till they completed their educations.
Not only is the "Palin should stay home with her kids" meme blatantly sexist, that argument could very well have been used against Joe Biden in 1970 when, after his first wife had been killed in a car accident, Joe Biden continued to serve in the Senate, if though his two young sons, themselves badly injured, needed him. Yet the Obama campaign trumpets this as proof of his grit, determination, and dedication to his family.
(http://www.barackobama.com/learn/meet_joe.php)
If Joe Biden can be a Senator while raising two children on his own, Sarah Palin can be Vice President while raising one more small child with the help of her large and loving family.
Nathan - and after that, President, if she wants it. As much as it may hurt those feminists who lean left to spend two months fighting to prevent a woman becoming veep, imagine how much more it will hurt in four years to be trying to stop a woman becoming President.
My guess is that they would have married already if they wanted to. It's unlikely that a conservative Christian would carry a baby to term as an unwed mom unless it was an accident - and probably more lust than love. I can't believe the parents are shaming their own child before the entire country, if they knew she was pregnant prior to accepting the nomination. I know my parents would never have done that to any of us 10 kids. Parenting is about love.
enig: Most of the posts on this blog of late are about McCain, so I end up posting stuff taking McCain to task. If Althouse posted more Obama threads you'd find out all the things I dislike about Obama. Most especially his hostility (perhaps phoney for the election) towards free trade.
I'm not in love with any of these politicians. One of the reasons I might vote Obama, though, is because I think he'd generate a lot of goodwill for America thoughout the world, and unlike some of you I think that's important. Bush was not a good President on the world's stage even though I'll never attack him for taking down Saddam (though, like McCain, I think he handled the Iraq mission pretty incompetently).
I don't know how a 17 year old can know who the love of her life (till death do them part) is, but if she wants to marry him I wish them well and maybe they'll get lucky and the marriage will last. I just hope she doesn't feel undue pressure to marry him because of her parents' religious views.
Liberals do not scorn single pregnant women, because they have not imposed unrealistic expectations on them.
Oh, I see. Then this I guess is a lie.
When I, myself, became pregnant in college, my soon-to-be mother in law (a hard-core liberal Democrat who had openly encouraged me to have un-married sex with her son) expressed her “disappointment” in both of us – and immediately pushed for an abortion. My own mother (a sex-before-marriage-is-sin Catholic) immediately comforted me, affirmed her love for me and said, “There’s always room in our family for another baby.” My husband and I have been JOYFULLY married 21 years and have 4 amazing kids…. What an beautiful gift of love my mother gave me that day!
I posted this earlier. (H/T Hugh Hewitt)
As I said, once you slip out of character, everyone knows it was just an act.
The next way they'll talk about their kids is that Biden's son is off to Iraq but he's got an office job in the Green Zone.
Palin's son is going to be on the front lines in the infantry.
Biden will whine that his son is in Iraq, and Palin will play her trump card.
It's funny: but that's the sort of thing we're going to get to in these final weeks after years of playin g pattycakes.
Unlike LoafingOaf, who thinks killing a moose is the equivalent of killing Bambi for fun, they understand that Alaska is not the local strip mall suburbanite culture.
You learn to hunt as part of their Native heritage, and frontier culture, not because they're ghouls.
I have my views on how we treat animals and I've already conceded I'm in an extreme minority and don't expect to win over anyone. But I do think she hunts for kicks. She holds up the dead animals in picture after picture as trophies. A moose is a living being that doesn't wanna get shot to death. Why not leave the moose alone? Mooseburgers are not healthy to eat. And if people continue to pracically masturbate over images of Palin shooting animals dead, I'm not gonna say that's cool.
"Mooseburgers are not healthy to eat"
But they are oh-so-yummy and lip-smacking-good.
enig: Or maybe you just don't understand someone who isn't a fan of any of these politicians and doesn't know who he's gonna vote for. We know you're in one party's tank, so whatever. Strong evidence is coming out that McCain was a bit reckless and irresponsible by not vetting Palin. He has very limited time to show she's fit for the job. Maybe he and PAlin can do it. If they can, I'm open to voting for them. I've always liked McCain a lot more than most Republicans. Most Republicans have been trashing McCain for years!
Here's how you know the Palin worshippers are full of it. They're trying to claim she's MORE experienced than Obama. MORE experienced? Obama's gone through a rigorous campaign and we know his positions on most of the issues. Does anyone believe for one second these people believe what they're saying when they try and spin Palin as MORE experienced?
Oh, I see. Then this I guess is a lie.
When I, myself, became pregnant in college, my soon-to-be mother in law
In this case "soon-to-be mother-in-law" trumps "liberal Democrat." I wouldn't be surprised if out of a natural sense of partisanship, the mother in law did not use phrases like "scheming little tramp" or "slut."
Oaf,
"Or maybe you just don't understand someone who isn't a fan of any of these politicians and doesn't know who he's gonna vote for."
Oh, I can most certainly sympathize with people in that boat, as I was in it myself up until very recently.
You can struggle to put the mask back on, but people remember the mask being off. You might as well just go natural from now on.
enig: Look, hunting a moose and making mooseburgers is less damnable than supporting the meat industry as most suburbanites do. Because the meat industry tortures animals. Animals that are hunted are living free, natgural lives up till the point they are shot. But the fact is Palin gets off on shooting animals and holding them up as trophies. She's not so anti-killing. Why not leave a moose alone? I know, that's crazy talk.
Here, who benefits by making liberal bloggers look like idiots?
Why Karl Rove, of course, the magnificent bastard!
I guess those of us in the know can now safely admit that the last 72 hours has been the most successful Rovian plot of all time.
We didn't think you left wingers would fall for it because of your superior intellect and gift for nuance, but Rove said you would so we rolled the dice.
Indeed, the plan has been so successful, Karl had a bit too much to drink during last night's celebratory festivities. It wasn't until after the third pot of coffee this morning that we felt reasonably comfortable letting him leave the house unsupervised.
The only problem now is that expectations for future Rovian plots have been raised considerably, and even Rove is unsure if he will be able to top this one.
Ann wrote about 8 posts decrying the spreading rumor. Ann used an obscure blog post to make the argument that “DailyKos” was pushing the rumor. That is a dishonest line of attack as Ann understands web sites and isn’t as dumb in the ways of the web as some reporters seem to be.
Posts on this were coming from all over the place, including left, middle, and right sites, as well as the National Inquirer variety.
It was further hypocritical of Ann Althouse, the McCain-Palin campaign, and right wingers in general to accuse liberals of pushing the story when they were roiling the waters over the very same rumor.
Rumors live through repetition and the right, including Althouse, has been pushing this as much as anyone. Compare posts of netroots leaders with right wing posts on same topic for empirical proof.
We don’t need this rumor on the left and, folks, please don’t spread it. We should leave the young woman alone. But we should also this moment to clarify exactly where candidates stand on reproductive education and birth control. Will Sarah Palin and John McCain seek to restrict birth control access? Will the insist on dumbing down sex ed?
That keeps it to public policy and shows how McCain and Palin are in step with George Bush, but not the American people.
Obama to Media, Politicos on Palin Pregnancy Story: 'Back Off!'
September 01, 2008 2:28 PM
At a brief press availability in Monroe, Mich., ABC News asked Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., if he had any response to Gov. Sarah Palin's statement that her unmarried 17-year-old daughter Bristol is pregnant.
"Let me be a clear as possible: I have said before and I will repeat again, I think people's families are off limits," Obama said, "and people's children are especially off limits.
"This shouldn't be part of our politics," he continued, "It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as governor, or her potential performance as a vice president.
"And so I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories," he said. "You know my mother had me when she was 18, and how a family deals with issues and, you know, teenage children, that shouldn't be the topic of our politics and I hope that anybody who is supporting me understands that's off limits."
Rev wrote:
Sex education is mostly about making adults feel like they're doing something about teen pregnancy.
That's the most honest thing I've ever seen written about sex education.
In my opinion all of it, of any kind, is a farce. You're not going to suddenly be seized with values over the course of a couple sex ed classes, nor are you going to suddenly become unflappably committed to safe sex and avoid being intrigued by the explicit information.
Teenagers already know about sex. They already know about birth control. Most parents have already talked to them. Sex ed is just adults jabbering about the obvious and well known.
A teenage pregnancy is not a scandal. But using your office to move forward a petty personal grudge is a scandal.
Why do the national stories on this trooper all leave out two key words? Those words are, "Death threat."
"Hi, I'm Walt Monegan. I'm an at-will employee of the governor. I have a trooper on my squad who made a death threat against the governor's father. They are understandably sensitive about this. In addition, it is against department policy to employ someone who makes death threats against anyone. There's no question about his making death threats.
"However, I'm not going to fire him. No way. I've been asked to look into his case for a year, but uh-uh. Got more important things to do. She'd never fire me, even though I have no recourse if she did.
"Oh wait. She fired me! Dang, I misplayed that one."
And this is a scandal?
AlphaLiberal,
You are doing it wrong. What you have to do is put on the ruby red slippers, close your eyes, click your heels while repeating over and over, "Althouse spread the lie, not liberals. Althouse spread the lie, not liberals. Althouse spread the lie, not liberals."
Oh, and it also won't work until you YouTube yourself doing this and providing all of us with the link. Please get right on it.
LoafingOaf said...
"Here's how you know the Palin worshippers are full of it. They're trying to claim she's MORE experienced than Obama. MORE experienced?"
Yes, LoafingOAF, she is more experienced than Obama. How many years has Obama - or Biden - served in an executive role, be it local, state or federal government, military, business, etc.? How many days has Obama - or Biden - served in an executive role? Zero. Zero. ZERO. Zero, LoafingOaf, ZERO. How in the world do you think that Obama has more experience than her? I mean, are you kidding? Is this a joke?
Here's how you know the Palin worshippers are full of it. They're trying to claim she's MORE experienced than Obama. MORE experienced?
Well, yeah. She's got more executive experience than anyone in the race (possible exception McCain with his military base experience). She's got experience routing out corruption. She's got experience in the private sector.
It's thin, but it's a thin year.
Obama's gone through a rigorous campaign
Most of us don't count "campaign experience" for that much.
and we know his positions on most of the issues.
Really? So is he pro-NAFTA or against it? Is he willing to drill or not? Is he going to sit down with dictators without preconditions or not?
Obama's been running on "trust my judgment" not on "here are my plans".
Jesus Christ, OmegaLib, can't you get off your damn soapbox for one freaking second? If we took away your partisan hackery, half-truths, and bulleted talking points, there'd be absolutely nothing left of you.
Animals that are hunted are living free, natural lives, until they are killed by bears, wolves, or hunters.
There, fixed.
Alpha, you're a cunt. Under your reasoning, he people who said that the story was wrong and insidious are as guilty as the people who originally created and pushed it. I'm done with you. You're an vapid, intellectually-dishonest hack who has finally reached the same levels of trollery as Freder. I will no longer read or respond to anything you say, here or anywhere else, you little pissant fuck.
"If we took away your partisan hackery, half-truths, and bulleted talking points, there'd be absolutely nothing left of you."
With all of that, there is something to him?
I don't understand this. Senator Obama has stated very clearly that these attacks on Governor Palin's family are out-of-bounds, and should stop. Yet they go on.
Why do Mr. Obama's most enthusiastic supporters disregard his wishes? It raises very troubling questions about his leadership abilities.
Her daughter has a choice (we assume, as that is what we were told) to keep the child or have an abortion. All American women also deserve a choice. If McCain is elected, lets face it, given his age and cancer history, his chances of living out his entire term are not great. SP does not want daughters to have any choices, even if they are rape or incest victims... Sarah is anti-choice, not pro-life. Illegal abortions kill people. Having a choice can save lives. Her stance on taking away the choices of other women makes her daughter's situation fair game.
(Wow, 508 comments!)
The Kos smear was just spoken on the O'Reilly Factor, so the attempt to slime this family has gone viral.
I liked Obama's classy, and responsible comments today, but I agree that if he genuinely feels this country needs to have a "change" in its discourse, that he has to Sister Souljah the Kos Kidz.
They might just have dynamited his campaign, and it's only Day FOUR since the Palin roll-out.
Cheers,
Victoria
Kirby Olson said..."The next way they'll talk about their kids is that Biden's son is off to Iraq but he's got an office job in the Green Zone."
Your insinuation is rather disingenuous, considering the fact that Beau Biden is a Judge Advocate General in the Delaware National Guard, the state's attorney general and quite a bit older than Palin's son who is about 20 and an enlistee in the Army.
Generally the military sends you were they need you and I haven't heard Biden say much of anything about his son.
Illegal abortions kill people.
All abortions do.
Smells like a trap on McCain's part. And the Kos Kids Krazily Krashed right into it.
Let's get a VP candidate who has a teenage daughter who happens to be pregnant. Get a lot of rumors circulating about it, then be "forced" admit the truth to put out the smears, and finally be proud that the girl has decided she's not being "punished with a baby."
Ok, I don't really think that's what happened, but it's definitely true that the Kos Krazies definitely stepped in it this time.
Michal Ann is a good example of the worst I've seen on liberal sites.
Someone will make a plea for upholding liberal ideals (not attacking Palin on sexist grounds) and there will be about half who say, "No, those ideals don't apply to her."
If a child is fair game because because Palin is pro-Life, why aren't other children fair game because their parents are pro-Choice?
campy said..."I don't understand this. Senator Obama has stated very clearly that these attacks on Governor Palin's family are out-of-bounds, and should stop. Yet they go on. Why do Mr. Obama's most enthusiastic supporters disregard his wishes? It raises very troubling questions about his leadership abilities."
Oh, please.
Are you actually trying to imply that Obama can tell Americans what they should or should not say...you know, considering the 1st Amendment and all?
Has McCain had any such discussions with Rush, Sean, Michael or Bill?
Because the left is the keeper of absolute truth, blake! (Though they deny such a thing exists.) So a pro-choicer's kids aren't fair game because of course they're on the proper side of the issue.
MORE experienced? Obama's gone through a rigorous campaign and we know his positions on most of the issues.
I like this new meme that running a campaign counts as "executive experience."
Running for president qualifies you to be president! It's just the neatest thing ever, isn't it?
/sarcasm
Why not leave a moose alone?
Because they are downright tasty.
A friend took a hunting trip to Canada and came back with moose and caribou steaks that put to shame the best, most expensive beef steaks I have ever had.
Also, meat from moose, caribou, and white tail deer are more healthy than the fat laden beef products purchased at the grocery store. If I have a choice between using ground venison or the leanest ground beef, I'll take the venison.
In fact, my family just had venison tacos tonight. Good stuff. Two more pounds of venison left, then it is back to the woods for me this fall.
Running for president qualifies you to be president! It's just the neatest thing ever, isn't it?
But Joan, don't you understand? You're tested in battle, and you survived!
My God, Obama is now as much a veteran of sniper fire than McCain was.
/channelling the future meme
If you wanna shoot guns, you can go to a firing range or go skeet shooting. I wouldn't shoot a moose for sport. I'd feel evil. But, like I said, I don't expect to win people over on this. I see the world, it makes me puke, as a recent pop song went....
I have to be honest, I'd really be OK to just take the experience issue off the table. I mean, I think the McCain/Palin ticket, net/net, has the better of that argument. So when it comes to political points, by all means, let's keep that debate going. But the presidency is really sui generis, in my view, and I think that even a governorship can take you so far. I mean, Rudy Giuliani is probably the only executive nationwide whose experience comes close to being predictive. I think when you get right down to it, I think you really have to make the judgements based on positions, vision, toughness, character, and general competency. On that latter point, that means looking at the things they have done and evaluating just how well they pulled them off.
So in a way, running for president does tell you a little something about how they'd be president. I don't happen to think that evaluation works out to well for Obama, but obviously 18 million folks disagree with me.
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the extreme Left-wing of today:
Moose = OFF LIMITS!
Down Syndrome Babies = Fair Game
michael ann-"fair game" indeed. you people are slime take this crap over to kos where you will be among your peers.
I do believe Obama's campaign reveals he is strongly qualified and fit for office. He demonstrated a lot in taking on the Clintons and all the other Dems in a long and rigorous fight. Palin is picked on the eve of the GOP convention and is currently cramming on the issues. We know nothing about her. Yet in November we're being asked to vote for her as a potential Commander in Chief should anything happen to McCain. Maybe she can demonstrate she's up to it. The burdens on her. I'm not gonna vote for her just cuz she didn't abort a down syndrome baby and looks hot with a gun, unlike some of you.
Okay Michael. I guess if the Senator wins in November, I'll be able to tell him where to go if he comes and tries to "require me to work."
... you know, considering the 13th Amendment and all?
LoafingOaf---setting aside the partisan stuff I do appreciate the way you're sharing your views here on human/animal life issues. I understand the contradiction you're seeing. It is the flip side really to the contradiction I see in reconciling pro-choice abortion views with extreme animal rights.
LO,
Even if you're a vegetarian, much killing has gone on in order to make a person such delicate sensibilities viable.
Your attitude has won the day in many places with regard to deer, with the upshot being they starve to death or get hit by cars.
The most in-tune-with-nature people I've ever met were hunters. They're very particular about which animals they kill and under what circumstances--unlike starvation and traffic.
Well, I have to agree with Alpha that Althouse was a bit fake in her attempt to make some diary on DailyKos represent all of DailyKos. I don't know why she thinks she can still get away with that nonsense. Anyone can post a diary on DailyKos and it obviously doesn't mean that it represents the whole DailyKos community. Althouse should stop playing those sorts of games. That is so 3 years ago in the blogosphere.....
A majority of Americans support abortion rights, but that support is highest when a woman's life or health is in danger or there is evidence the baby will be physically or mentally impaired, recent polls suggest.
More than six in 10 in a poll by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press said they oppose the Supreme Court completely overturning the high court's decision 30 years ago allowing legal abortions. That number has been essentially unchanged for more than a decade.
But public support for abortion rights varies considerably, depending on the circumstances.
Here are some examples of public support for abortion rights in different circumstances, according to the Gallup poll:
85 percent support abortion rights when the woman's life is endangered.
77 percent support abortion rights when the woman's health is endangered.
76 percent support abortion rights when the pregnancy was caused by rape or incest.
55 percent support abortion rights when there is evidence the baby's physical or mental health may be impaired.
35 percent support abortion rights when the woman or family cannot afford to raise the child.
The Pew poll of 1,218 adults was taken Jan. 8-12 and the Gallup poll of 1,002 adults was taken Jan. 10-12. Both have error margins of plus or minus 3 percentage points.
I'm not gonna vote for her just cuz she didn't abort a down syndrome baby and looks hot with a gun, unlike some of you.
I think many of us would vote for McCain if he put Howdy Doody on the ticket---that's how low an opinion we have of Obama. (Biden/Obama, now that would be a different ticket.) But I don't think there's anyone here who fits your silly caricature.
This whole conversation bores me, I'd rather discuss why Sarah was hilariously pro-secession in the 90's. Not exactly putting "America First". This pick is the ultimate FAIL for which all FAIL's will be judged.
In the hopes of squashing one of those Obama smears that just keeps getting repeated until everybody believes it, Obama released his medical records in May. Here's the link: http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2008/05/obama_releases_health_informat.html
I don't know why she thinks she can still get away with that nonsense. Anyone can post a diary on DailyKos and it obviously doesn't mean that it represents the whole DailyKos community.
Yes, and diaries on DailyKos can, and often are, wiped if their views are judged too extreme for the site or would otherwise reflect badly on it. And indeed many of the comments in those threads made an appeal for just such an editorial exercise.
So no, Kos doesn't get off the hook on this one.
An interesting aspect is that both Gov. Palin's pregnancy and her daughter's could have ended in a private, quiet abortion and no one else would have been the wiser.
You can be sure that in as high a position as Alaska Governor, taking this road would have been the easier one exposure-wise.
I am truly impressed with the courage and integrity displayed in this family.
And I am heartened for the nation.
Your attitude has won the day in many places with regard to deer, with the upshot being they starve to death or get hit by cars.
In my town, there have been big controversies because the city hires sharpshooters to kill a bunch of deer each year. There are alternatives, of course. You can implant birth control devices in the deer, for example.
I wouldn't shoot a moose for sport.
Then don't. People kill moose for food. They appreciate that they're asking the moose to give up its life to sustain theirs.
Consider that unlike supermarket meat, the moose lived a completely natural life until the hunter's bullet killed it. Consider further that Nature is seldom benign. A quick, clean death from an expert hunter's bullet is to be preferred to being hamstrung by a pack of wolves, or even having its neck bitten through by a bear.
Invisible Man said...
"I'd rather discuss why Sarah was hilariously pro-secession in the 90's."
Evidence? since you're a man of the left, I realize I may have to explain that to you - "evidence" is when you bring forward facts from credible sources that support assertions you've made. Let me also save you some time by explaining "the burden of proof": it's incumbent on you, as someone asserting something, to prove it, not on those who doubt your claim to disprove it. Get cracking. Bet you don't have anything.
hey Oaf--and exactly how do you know Gov Palin shoots Moose for sport or trophy--please document. you are very clearly NOT a hunter and wouldnt know which end of the rifle the bullet comes out I suspect. As I said before: there are slimeball killers who kill for no reason. A hunter kills his or her game in an honest hunt and then does not waste the meat from the kill. Most responsible hunters know and abide by this dictum.
While you might not like moose (or elk which is almost as good) no one give a damn about your dietary sensibilities--I don't suppose you have ever eaten game. But you dont mind eating a cow or calf that has been raised in factory conditions I bet; where the poor animal is raised in bad conditions, goes thru a chute and is stunned, then hung and bled. --so unless you are a complete vegan you are absolutely positively talking out of your tight ass.
Campy,
I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say.
Why do Mr. Obama's most enthusiastic supporters disregard his wishes?
Because, by gum, we're not going to be Swiftboated ever again!
That's the all-purpose excuse on the lefty blogs. They goad each other into by challenging themselves to "grow a pair." It's called overcompensation.
(They especially like going after 17-year-old girls. Not as likely to fight back.)
On the other topic, I happen to believe Obama qualified to be president, strictly on the basis of his campaign's success against HRC. He's the titular leader of that campaign, so he gets the credit.
But he's not more qualified than Palin. Her CV is significantly more impressive than his.
But her fans shouldn't really be arguing this point anyway. She's the fulfillment of an American fantasy, as depicted in numerous movies and TV shows in the past decade or so -- the average person who knows enough to know the federal government is full of shit, and isn't bought into the system. "Dave," "The Contender," "Commander in Chief," some movie recently with Robin Williams; these are the reference points. Also, "Swing Vote" is sort of like this. The idea is an average person from the heartland is better equipped to run the government than, say, Joe Biden. Is that so far wrong?
I mean, let's face it: John Edwards rumors were enough to get a commenter banned from Daily Kos---rumors that turned out to be true.
Are we talking about the moose who live in the wild or the ones who hang out at the lodge?
The ones at the lodge are a lot easier to bring down...especially at happy hour.
campy said...
"Why do Mr. Obama's most enthusiastic supporters disregard his wishes? It raises very troubling questions about his leadership abilities."
They fllow his wishes whenever those wishes match their own.
This whole conversation bores me, I'd rather discuss why Sarah was hilariously pro-secession in the 90's. Not exactly putting "America First".
I've tried to bring this up a couple times here, but apparently the commenters aren't up on things. They'll here about it soon, I guess.
here-hear....yes, labor day drinking....
John Stodder: I haven't read any negative comments about the 17 yerar old daughter and why do you say it was the liberals who brought the story to light?
It's been reported via every network and newspaper and it's hard to believe it took so long.
This reminds me eerily of when obviously faked Texas ANG memos were leaked to liberal former CBS anchor Dan Rather. The documents were never really a threat, because their proportional type face made them easy to disprove.
If the memos were "easily disproved", then the repeated denials from CBS and the left-wing blogosphere that they were forgeries can only be explained as a deliberate campaign of slander in service to the Democratic Party. :)
Michael said...
"Has McCain had any such discussions with Rush, Sean, Michael or Bill?"
I don't hear Rush, Sean, Michael or Bill - much as I dislike them - saying that the youngest Obama daughter is actually the daghter of the elder Obama daughter and that the Obama's are just trying to cover up the scandal, Michael. I don't hear Rush, Sean, Michael or Bill telling Obama that he's irersponsible for dragging his children into the limelight. I don't hear Rush, Sean, Michael or Bill questioning how a father with young children can possibly be President.
LoafingOaf said...
"I've tried to bring this up a couple times here, but apparently the commenters aren't up on things."
Let's see some evidence. You don't get to come in here and make unsupported assertions and then moan like a pissy little bitch that no one has engaged you about it.
Liberals will not be making a big deal about Bristol's pregnancy.
You already are. In fact, the only people I've heard criticize Palin over her daughter's pregnancy have been lefties -- even normally sensible ones like MadisonMan.
Kos kids are retreating now. Their leader has spoken.
This whole conversation bores me, I'd rather discuss why Sarah was hilariously pro-secession in the 90's. Not exactly putting "America First".
I've tried to bring this up a couple times here, but apparently the commenters aren't up on things. They'll here about it soon, I guess.
Here's a friendly YouTube video of her addressing a 2008 AIP convention.
Here's Jake Tapper's blog on the subject.
So sure, let's talk about it. Doesn't seem scary to me. Might even be worth another post.
No one is up on things but those wise old liberals.
You can breathe easier, can't you, without the mask. Liberating, ain't it?
Michael said...
"More than six in 10 in a poll by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press said they oppose the Supreme Court completely overturning the high court's decision 30 years ago allowing legal abortions. That number has been essentially unchanged for more than a decade."
Yeah, but when you break down the numbers on the other questions asked, you'll find that many of those who say they don't want Roe overturned also support legislation that is flatly incompatible with Roe. For example, the public at large is overwhelmingly in favor of a ban on partial-birth abortion, and yet the left's claim is that Carhart's rhetoric is an illusion and that such a ban can't be squared with Roe. This tells me - and it should tell you - that many Americans have absolutely no idea what Roe actually stands for (which is nothing at all, in practice - Casey is the governing precedent), which leaves their claim to oppose its overruling on shaky ground indeed.
Let me put my point above in more direct terms: I think that a majority of Americans would support overruling Roe if they understood what the actual consequences of that decision would be (i.e. that overruling Roe does not mean criminalizing abortion).
mcg, I think you look like Todd Palin. No, seriously.
chickenlittle said...
"Kos kids are retreating now. Their leader has spoken."
Too little. Too late.
Ha! Well, my wife compares favorably to Sarah Palin so that works for me :)
PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
Those of you arguing Palin's stand on contraception might be interested in this story from the Anchorage Daily News of August 6, 2006:
In 2002, when she was running for lieutenant governor, Palin sent an e-mail to the anti-abortion Alaska Right to Life Board saying she was as "pro-life as any candidate can be" and has "adamantly supported our cause since I first understood, as a child, the atrocity of abortion."
Palin said last month that no woman should have to choose between her career, education and her child. She is pro-contraception and said she's a member of a pro-woman but anti-abortion group called Feminists for Life.
"I believe in the strength and the power of women, and the potential of every human life," she said.
Link for those who don't believe.
Feel free to take a moment to adjust your partisan positions and then resume fire.
(Fact-checking saves embarrassment.)
END OF PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT
Simon doesn't even grasp how phoney his own party is on Roe. I fully support Roe but have often voted Republican. I have little fear that Roe will be overturned because I don't believe Republicans want it to happen. If Roe were overturned, Republicans would lose across the nation. No, they'd rather let Roe be there and use it to manipulate the pro-lifers. If pro-lifers had any balls they'd leave the GOP and vote third party. As long as the GOP knows you won't do that, they'll keep humoring you.
Aside to John Stodder: Great comments here today. Really enjoyed them. Thanks!
Palin addressed the secessionist AIP in 2008?!
She's gonna have to explain this.
(Fact-checking saves embarrassment.)
Fact-checking is for pussies.
There were no leaks and no secrets. According to Time, everyone in their little home town knows the governor's teenage daughter is pregnant, and it's no one else's business.
Let's see some evidence.
The "evidence" is that she videotaped an address to the Alaskan Independence Party this year. I took the liberty of transcribing it:
I'm Governor Sarah Palin and I am delighted to welcome you to the 2008 Alaskan Independence Party convention in the golden heart city of Fairbanks. Your party plays an important part in our state's politics. I've always said that competition is so good, and that applies to political parties as well. I share your party's vision of upholding the Constitution of our great state. My administration remains focused on reigning in government growth so individual liberty and opportunity can expand. I know you agree with that. We have a great promise to be a self-sufficient state made up of the hardest-working, most grateful Americans in our nation. So as your convention gets underway, I hope that you all are inspired by remembering that all those years ago, it was in this same city that Alaska's constitution was born, and it was founded on hope, and trust, and liberty, and opportunity. I carry that message of opportunity forward in my administration as we continue to move our state ahead and create positive change. So I say good luck on a successful and inspiring convention, keep up the good work, and God bless you.
Obviously you'd have to be an idiot to read that speech and conclude that Sarah Palin is endorsing secession, but then again idiots aren't exactly in short supply in the Obama camp.
I think the address speaks for itself. What part of her message did you disagree with, Loafing Oaf? Other than it was given by someone who isn't a liberal?
Pssst. You are coming across much more natural now that you have dropped the pretense.
Right, revenant. She apparently joined in 1994... and then left in 1996. Gasp! Could it possibly be she left because she decided she fit better in the Republican party? And this is a scandal?
LoafingOaf said...
"Simon doesn't even grasp how phoney his own party is on Roe. I fully support Roe but have often voted Republican. I have little fear that Roe will be overturned because I don't believe Republicans want it to happen."
If you mean only that some of our leaders - people like our beloved Presidolt, who tried to fob us off with his personal lawyer, ultimately being soundly rebuffed and armlocked into picking a wonderful jurist (with whom I have many disagreements, but a great jurist none the less) - want to avoid overruling Roe because they think it's good electoral hay, sure. But if you think that view is shared by any Republican outside Washington, you're living in your own world.
Still, I'll take you at your word: you talk the left into your kooky idea that we don't want to overrule Roe. Let's see what happens when Souter is replaced with Diane Sykes; when Stevens is replaced with Robert young; when Ginsburg is replaced with Sai Prakash. Somehow I don't think that the left - or anyone else - believes this meme you want to cook up.
Revenant said...
"The 'evidence' is that she videotaped an address to the Alaskan Independence Party this year."
That's all they've got? Hilarious! Barack Obama addressed AIP in person earlier this year - is he Jewish?
Simon: no, there are claims she was actually a member for awhile in the 90s.
This Wikipedia article provides an interesting summary of the legal arguments surrounding Alaska's statehood. It's similar to the Hawaii arguments.
Well, like I said, some aren't up on the latest breaking news.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html
Officials of the Alaskan Independence Party say that Palin was once so independent, she was once a member of their party, which, since the 1970s, has been pushing for a legal vote for Alaskans to decide whether or not residents of the 49th state can secede from the United States.
And while McCain's motto -- as seen in a new TV ad -- is "Country First," the AIP's motto is the exact opposite -- "Alaska First -- Alaska Always."
Lynette Clark, the chairman of the AIP, tells ABC News that Palin and her husband Todd were members in 1994, even attending the 1994 statewide convention in Wasilla. Clark was AIP secretary at the time.
What to make of it? Palin should be asked about it. She should be asked about a lot of stuff. We know almost nothing about her and McCain didn't vet her, yet we're supposed to make her second in line as Leader of the Free World in a couple months.....
But back to fake babies and real babies. From Byron York:
Here in St. Paul, I was on NPR this evening with a man named Michael Carey, who is a columnist and former editorial page editor for the Anchorage Daily News. We started talking, of course, about the day's Palin news — the fake baby story and the real baby story. As far as the fake baby story was concerned, Carey told me that the rumors were going around in Alaska a few months ago, not long after the birth of Sarah Palin's fifth child. He told me that Daily News reporters and editors explored the story quite extensively, and, as Carey said on NPR, "could find no basis for it except that people who didn't like Sarah Palin believed it." He told me that Daily News reporters talked at length to the Palins about it — Carey said the Palins were actually eager to talk about the rumor because they knew how much it had spread around Alaska. He also said Daily News reporters looked into the medical angle of the rumor, which included talking to at least one doctor involved, and again found nothing to support the story. In the end, Carey told me, the newspaper became "convinced that it was not true."
What is amazing about all this is how making just one phone call to a man like Carey could have given some of the bloggers at The Atlantic and DailyKos pause before they wrote so extensively about it. Why didn't they do that?
Was she a member of a nutty secessionist party in 1994? Was she a member of the nutty Buchanan Brigades in 1996? We need to ask her about these things.
Simon: no, there are claims she was actually a member for awhile in the 90s.
Yes, but claims aren't evidence, as the "Palin's youngest child isn't really hers" slander demonstrated. Thus far, the evidence consists of the video I linked.
Even if she did belong to the party, that would hardly demonstrate support for secession. I belonged to the Libertarian Party, but I never supported a return to the gold standard or withdrawing from Iraq.
simon,
Sounds like you spend quite a bit of time listening to the bunch I mentioned.
If she was a member of the AIP and also then a member of the Buchanan Brigades, she may be a complete nutcase.
Did McCain vet this woman AT ALL??!?!
As for the poll I posted: I just posted it, I didn't take it, and of course there are varying opinions based on specific circumstances.
It's something we need to address and try to get it behind us because I can't think of anything we ever tell the public they can't do...that they don't do anyway.
Just reading in Graham Robb's Discovery of France the old French proverb, "Pregnant three months for the first chile, nine for all the rest."
I really chuckle when all the fakes and frauds and "Pro-Choice" == infanticide baby killers go tsk tsk when SP's daughter is five months pregnant. As for the Robb quote, Billy Jeff Clinton was born three months after William Blythe got back from Italy, and Obama was sired by a bigamist on a 17-year old. Who ran off first chance he could. Wow, throw more stones, please, cuz the glass in your house is only shattered.
Talk about being called ugly by a frog!
If she was a member of the AIP and also then a member of the Buchanan Brigades, she may be a complete nutcase.
She obviously isn't.
Loafing Oaf, in 1996 she was involved in the Steve Forbes campaign.
I pointed that out to you earlier, so I am sure your increasing stridency means that you have admitted now that there is no going back to your previous posing.
Did McCain vet this woman AT ALL??!?!
Given that the nutroots have been trying to dig up dirt on her all weekend and haven't come up with anything more damning than "she once attended a Pat Buchanan rally in 1996", it is safe to say that they did. :)
enig: Pat Buchanan was qite clear this weekend in stating she was one of his pitch fork wielding brigadiers in 1996. And very enthusiastic about him. Maybe he's a total liar. We haven't heard from Palin yet.
Go easy on loafingoaf, he's slow. I mean, the notion that McCain didn't vet her is so 6 hours ago.
I smell fear and desperation. Thank god that all that is left when it comes to blog commenting is all-caps and spam-posting.
They only have a day and a half to try to paint Palin in a certain way before she does so herself on Wednesday.
Ooooh, that smell. Can't you smell that smell?
Maybe he's a total liar.
Gee, ya think? You seem to have that problem yourself.
We haven't heard from Palin yet.
No, but we've heard from Bay Buchanan, who denies it.
Go easy on loafingoaf, he's slow. I mean, the notion that McCain didn't vet her is so 6 hours ago.
Heh! Yeah, the Obama folks are burning through the attacks pretty quickly, aren't they.
"Pat Buchanan was qite clear "
Oh, I am sure that if he was qite clear it means it was the case. I mean, certainly he knew every supporter of his by name, and certainly he would never misrepresent how much support he had.
We know an article got printed saying she supported him-- and the very next day, back then, she wrote the paper to set the record straight.
But here you go.
"State Sen. Mike Miller of Fairbanks will head the Alaska campaign chairman for Republican presidential candidate Steve Forbes, campaign officials said.
Joining the Fairbanks Republican on the leadership committee will be Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin, and former state GOP chairman Pete Hallgren, who will serve as co-chairs."
http://hatthief.blogspot.com/2008/08/vetting-sarah-palin-co-chaired-steve.html and http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/08/mccain-camp-den.html
Oh. Some more inconvenient reporting for you from Ben Smith. http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Palin_not_on_1996_Buchanan_list.html
"1996 Presidential Campaign Press Materials
January 17, 1996
ANNOUNCES OVER 20 AREA CAMPAIGN COORDINATORS IN ALASKA
PATRICK J. BUCHANAN, R-VA
LENGTH: 291 words
MCLEAN,VA -- On the heels of the unanimous endorsement of Republican presidential candidate Patrick Buchanan by the Alaska Right to Life Board of Directors, Buchanan for President Campaign Chairman Angela "Bay" Buchanan announced today that former Alaska Representative Jerry Ward of Anchorage will serve as State Chairman of the Buchanan for President campaign.
Ms. Buchanan also announced that over 29 grass-roots activists had been appointed Area Coordinators in Alaska.
"It is a great pleasure to bring on such energetic and enthusiastic individuals to lead our efforts in Alaska," said Ms. Buchanan.
"Pat Buchanan is the only presidential candidate who demonstrates unwavering leadership regardless how tough the issues are," said Mr. Ward. "Pat does not waver, waffle or cave-in. That is exactly what the frontier spirit of Alaska is all about."
Mr. Ward is a former member of the Alaska Legislature, having served in the House of Representative. An Alaska native, Mr. ward was the Director of Rural Affairs for the Department of Corrections in the State of Alaska from 1990 to 1994. He and his wife Margaret reside in Anchorage.
Alaska Organization
State Chairman: Jerry Ward
Endorsements: Representative Terry Martin
Alaska Right to Life Board of Directors
Area Coordinators: Bob Devinney
Anchorage Region
Ed Wassell
Susan Menyoki
Harry Donahue
Les Syren
Lucille Clark
Bob Bird
Kevin Temple
Gary Cadd
George Martin
Lyle Easterly
Alex Newhall
Jack Veit
Jolianne Brunton
Laure Macconnell
Fairbanks Region
Chris and Peggy Seeley
Stephanie Voight
Nancy Odom
Juneau Region
Ford Horst
Julie Ward
Ketchikan Region
Chris Gates
John Redelfs
Sitka Region Virginia Phillips"
Oops! And OpenSecrets shows no donations to Buchanan.
All we have are liberals, and independents playing on on the web, trying to push yet another smear.
Time is not on your side. Nor are the facts.
We haven't heard from Palin yet.
No, but we've heard from Bay Bucanan, who denies it.
Well actually we have heard from Palin too -- the article you linked states that she wrote a letter to the paper to deny supporting Buchanan.
loafingoaf said: If pro-lifers had any balls they'd leave the GOP and vote third party
Third parties are dead this year- just dead. Does that piss you off too?
Well actually we have heard from Palin too -- the article you linked states that she wrote a letter to the paper to deny supporting Buchanan.
Yes, in 1999---not 1996.
And to be clear... "- the article you linked states that she wrote a letter to the paper to deny supporting Buchanan."
She wrote the letter the day after the article had been published, back in 1999.
randy: I don't know about Pat's sister. I saw Patrick Buchanan with my own two eyes on MSNBC this weekend saying she was an enthusiastic brigadier in 1996. He went on and on about this.
If he's a total liar, the worst yo can say about me is that I was lied to by Pat Buchanan, and you should take your gripes up with the people MSNBC hire. As I said, I need to hear Palin's response. Pat Buchanan is either telling the truth or is a complete and total liar. I acknowledge that either might be the case. It was never me who put Pat Buchanan on a pedestal in American politics. It was right wingers. Who fucking wrecked the 1992 GOP convention with Buchanan's hateful speech with all the right wing nazis worked up into a frenzy. Some say Perot won it for Slick Willy. I say it was you right wing social conservatives who made that ugly display during Buchanan's filthy speech that did it. Palin, apparently, watched that speech in admiration.
mcg, "not 1996."
Yes, but we have the Buchanan press release from 1996 that said who was working on his campaign; it does not list her. And in the Volokh link above, we find that Bay Buchanan says the only time she ever met Palin was in a "fundraiser for Alaska Republican Jerry Ward."
Anyone want to wager what the next smear attempt will be?
I have often considered calling myself a Republican, but then I tune in to Republican radio hosts and find out people with my views are RINOS and need to be purged. Okay, so now I'm purged. I'm an Ohio voter and I may vote for Obama. That's what you asked for and that's what you might get. Maybe you right wingers shouldn't have demonized McCain with your disgusting smears in 2000 and we would've had a proper Commander in Chief on 9/11 and during its aftermath. Instead of this clown Bush who you went with because he went on about Jesus.
"If he's a total liar, the worst yo can say about me is that I was lied to by Pat Buchanan, and you should take your gripes up with the people MSNBC hire."
Obviously, based on the evidence I posted above, he is at best mistaken on his facts and at worst a liar.
But I disagree wholeheartedly that the worst I can say about you is that you were lied to by Pat Buchanan. You have willingly ignored evidence counter to the political agenda you are trying to push. The only reason to do that is pure, political, partisan hackery.
What a shame. Oh, well, screen names are cheap, and within just a few weeks you can have a brand new completely credible independent name going once again.
Ah, another Republican for Obama. You fit right in.
And the beauty of it is-- you wasted it buried 300 comments deep on a thread, where no one but the most hard-core Althousians are going to see it.
Oh, wait. I was wrong. 500 comments deep.
Post a Comment