"He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by."
#78 in a collection of "moments" from the 2008 campaign.
September 17, 2008
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Ann Althouse, going whole hog in shoveling out right wing attacks on Obama.
The masquerade called the "vow of cruel neutrality" is finally gone. All of her suppressed love for John McCain and Sarah Palin comes gushing forth.
Don Draper?
Who is he? Who is Obama?
I run 'AlphaLiberal' through the Palin Name Generator and I get:
Kevin Barrett
It's an attack on Obama to remark on his defining trait -- arrogance?
Incidentally, if you have not gone to your bank today, you might want to now. You know, before the lines get too long.
On Monday, the post office begins distribution of those special indelible ink markers so we can add zeroes to the numbers on our paper currency.
C'mon AlphaLiberal, lighten up. I'm beginning to think your emotions run the gamut from anger to blind rage.
ricpic asks: "It's an attack on Obama to remark on his defining trait -- arrogance?"
It was actually a comment from Karl Rove, the most arrogant human being on the planet, and what makes it so ridiculous is this: There are still, to this day country clubs" that Karl and others of his ilk can be members, that Obama and even women can't.
(That's the reason the all-white St. Louis Country Club in Ladue, Mo. can't hold U.S. G.A sanctioned gold tournaments to this day.)
And speaking of "arrogance," how arrogant is it when someone asks you how many homes you own, and you just laugh and say you really don't know?
*And by the way, Obama's "defining traits" would include a strong work ethic, an exceptional education, long-term service to his community and a family that would make anybody proud.
Forrest meet trees.
The anger from the left leaning commenters is actually quite funny. Humor (and lack thereof) is what will finally kill the Obama campaign.
Is quoting that Rove a pro- or an anti-Obama thing to do?
Why did Alpha Liberal blow a gasket? I think we know.
I kind of like the idea of having a latter-day Dean Martin as President but I don't think Obama is really that guy, he takes himself too seriously.
*And by the way, Obama's "defining traits" would include a strong work ethic, an exceptional education, long-term service to his community and a family that would make anybody proud.
Except for the family part that is pretty funny. Maybe you should write for SNL.
What the hell is an exceptional education? He has a college degree and a law degree; things many many people have. By those standards millions are qualified to be president.
He was a community organizer. Big deal. Lots of people do that. Then they get real jobs.
Before being a Senator he only held two part time jobs; part time college professor and Illinois legislator- that is really a part time job.
I guess a forty something year old man who has done nothing but held part time jobs is qualified to be president. He has accomplished so much.
There is a kid flipping burgers right now who is dreaming about it.
Ann, I'm not sure what the point of posting a quote from one of the most notorious Republican insider strategists is, especially considering his reputation for dirty tricks...and then you didn't even reveal the fact that it was Karl Rove who said it.(Are you saying it isn't important for people to know who said something as inflammatory as this? Really?)
And you also know that 95% of the people here can hardly stand to even utter the name Obama, much less disagree that a statement like this, so it's comparable to throwing gasoline on a fire.
The comment is not only partisan, but downright ridiculous, considering the context of a black man standing in a country club...being considered...arrogant?
*When was the last time anybody here, including you, Ann...ran into a black man "at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by"??
Yeah, that happens all the time...
Your point...?
From a former Clinton supporter who now supports McCain
"John McCain's campaign says the Republican is picking up the support of a top Hillary Clinton fundraiser and member of the Democratic National Committee's Platform Committee.
Lynn Forester de Rothschild has said she thinks Democratic nominee Barack Obama is arrogant and has a problem connecting with average Americans."
(h/t Patterico)
Michael, don't be so literal-minded, our dark lord Karl is just evoking an old cliche for illustrative purposes. Didn't you ever watch the old Flintstones cartoons?
Petey, I'm not going to engage you in yet another discussion of what a community organizer actually does and how important they are to those who need the help, but you and I both know this for sure: You yourself have never spent one single day of your life doing anything of the sort.
As for Obama's education and work ethic, I'll let the fact that he's the very first black man in our nation's history to be nominated as a potential President stand as a fairly decent indication that he's doing a pretty good job.
Instead of denigrating Obama on a regular basis, why not list all of your major accomplishments in life so we can compare?
maguro, I've never found thoroughly disparaging comments like this to be "illustrative" of anything but...racism.
I don't find this racist.
So we simply disagree.
Miller: Surely you jest.
Every now and then life imitates really bad art, and this is one of those times.
Today we have Lynn Forester de Rothschild, who splits her time living in London and New York, who's married to international banker Sir Evelyn de Rothschild...calling Obama..."arrogant."
Hopefully SNL will take this one on, because it is really pretty funny.
I think of Ty Webb, the character Chevy Chase played in Caddyshack. The description of the guy is perfect, and we can see (as he can't) that he's simply empty.
I'd much rather be Al Czervik, the character played by Rodney Dangerfield.
Caddyshack (1980)
Al Czervik: Last time I saw a mouth like that, it had a hook in it.
Al Czervik: Hey everybody, we're all gonna get laid.
Al Czervik: Oh, this is the worst-looking hat I ever saw. What, when you buy a hat like this I bet you get a free bowl of soup, huh?
[looks at Judge Smails, who's wearing the same hat]
Al Czervik: Oh, it looks good on you though.
Al Czervik: Oh, this your wife, huh? A lovely lady. Hey baby, you must've been something before electricity.
Al Czervik: You're a lot of woman, you know that? Yeah, wanna make 14 dollars the hard way?
Al Czervik: [to his Asian companion] I hear this place is restricted, Wang, so don't tell 'em you're Jewish, okay?
Al Czervik: Hey, doll. Could you scare up another round for our table over here? And tell the cook this is low grade dog food. I've had better food at the ballgame, you know? This steak still has marks from where the jockey was hitting it.
Ty Webb: Guys, don't include me in this.
Al Czervik: Come on, Ty, you're an ace. Everybody knows it.
Ty Webb: I don't play golf, for money, against people.
Al Czervik: What are you, religious or something?
Ty Webb: You might say that.
[Judge Smails is taking an inordinately long time to hit his drive on the first tee, while Al Czervik waits in the next foursome]
Al Czervik: While we're young.
Al Czervik: What're we, waiting for these guys? Hey Whitey, where's your hat?
Judge Smails: Do you mind, sir. I'm trying to tee off.
Al Czervik: I'll bet you a hundred bucks you slice it into the woods.
Judge Smails: Gambling is illegal at Bushwood sir, and I never slice.
[Swings club, slices ball into woods]
Judge Smails: *Damn*.
Al Czervik: OK, you can owe me.
Judge Smails: I owe you nothing.
Al Czervik: [breaks wind at a dinner] Whoa, did somebody step on a duck?
Al Czervik: He called me a baboon, he thinks I'm his wife.
Judge Smails: I demand satisfaction.
Al Czervik: [mocking] You demand satisfaction? Well I'll tell you what's satisfying: *cash*. I'll shoot you 18 holes for ten thousand bucks!
Judge Smails: [laughs] Wha... I could beat you with one arm!
Al Czervik: Well, how about teams then, for twenty thousand? You can have Dr. Frankenputz...
Dr. Beeper: [mortified] I beg your pardon!
Al Czervik: And I'll take Ty, here.
Ty Webb: Wait a minute guys... I don't play golf... for money... against people.
Al Czervik: [tees off] Four!
[his ball hits Judge Smails in the crotch]
Al Czervik: I should have yelled, "Two!"
Al Czervik: [after an airplane passes just above his head] I almost got head from Amelia Earhart!
Al Czervik: [drops his bow anchor on Judge Smails' sailboat, sinking it] Hey, you scratched my anchor!
Al Czervik: No respect.
[after the gopher takes his ball]
Al Czervik: Hey, that kangaroo just took my ball
The point is, people find Bambi arrogant.
You can choose to shoot the messenger if you like.
Bambi jets around the country & goes on his world tour in Europe, and he's somehow the "common man"?
This is a guy that brings a teleprompter to a rodeo.
I find that elitist.
Miller, that's because you're probably a racist.
Have YOU ever run into a black man at a country club (if you actually belong to one) acting in such a manner? Anywhere for that matter?
And where in the world would such an analogy even come from? All of the black men who belong to country clubs and act "arrogant?"
The rationale behind the quote was obvious from day one and it's been discussed by many...and if you think the term; "uppity" isn't involved, you're dreaming.
Miller, "Arrogant" is when someone asks you how many homes you have...and you laugh and say you really can't remember.
So I guess I'm the only one who didn't know (1) who made the quote or (2) who the quote was about.
I do agree with the original post on it: Very bad metaphor.
All you have to do is substitute the term "arrogant" for "uppity" and you'll have a pretty good idea of what the quote relates to.
Only Miller doesn't understand.
Sorry, "uppity" for "arrogant."
Temporary dyslexia.
Karl Rove may not be much involved in campaigns these days but his mind control machine is clearly still functioning for Rs.
roger, Rove work for the McCain campaign.
Michael: All you have to do is substitute the term "arrogant" for "uppity" and you'll have a pretty good idea of what the quote relates to.
So all the inside Democrats complaining that Obama's campaign has gone off the tracks due to his pride are racists. Got it.
Speaking of country clubs, did Obama get accepted into the Black Congressional Caucus, or was he not black enough?
"not understand" != "don't find it racist."
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
If you want to find it racist, go ahead. That says much about your type of thinking that tags things this way.
Me? I'm a little more relaxed than that.
Now, go back to your firing of blanks.
"He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by."
Yah, I know him. He's just like the guy that lectures us on paying more taxes to help our neighbors while his brother languishes in a Kenyan hut on $1 a day.
Maybe one of the celebs at Obama's $9,000,000 fundraiser will send him a care package...
I find the extreme thin-skinned--ness of the Bambi campaign to be hilarious.
This is a man who wants to run the presidency? He and his supporters flip out whenever anyone points out his many, many flaws, including his rampant corruption and cronyism, and his constant lying. ("McCain wants a 100-year war in Iraq," for one.)
He's thin-skinned and humorless. Americans will find that is something they don't want in a president. They want a happy warrior, not an aggrieved adolescent.
Fen and Miller: Both racists who just can't own up to it.
Michael.
You are so funny at times. Do you imagine that you can make us feel guilty without our consent?
Miller, have you ever actually voted?
And please provide some evidence of this inane comment: "...rampant corruption and cronyism, and his constant lying..."
While you're looking, here a few things to come out of your party's campaign:
Obama wants to teach sex to kindergarteners? Lie.
Palin opposed the Bridge to Nowhere? Lie.
Palin hasn’t taken earmarks as Governor? Lie.
Alaska produces 20% of America’s energy? Lie.
Palin visited Iraq and Ireland? Lie.
All vetted and proven.
Buford Gooch said...
"The anger from the left leaning commenters is actually quite funny. Humor (and lack thereof) is what will finally kill the Obama campaign."
This really hits home for me. The right (obviously) can be angry too, but the left seems to be operating on such rage, and it doesn't do it any good.
The left acts as if showing any good will or humor towards "the other side" will cause the downfall of civilization. That somehow, if we make fun of anything in this campaign, we are trivializing the issues.
I have been following this site for a long time. I am an attorney and I really enjoy reading the analysis and Ann's take (and commentators) too. I have been a Democrat my whole life, but have clearly drifted to the center.
Saying this, I am STILL not sure what I am going to do in November. But I'll tell you this, my friends on the left (which is all of my family) get positively angry with me when I say this, whereas my friends on the right just try to convince me otherwise.
That anger is so counterproductive. And I honestly, and perhaps naively, don't understand why there has to be such hostility (on both sides, really) and why we can't all agree that we want to end up with the same results (good schools, etc.) but that there are just different theories how to get there.
Michael.
You are a mind reader, too! You know the party I "belong" to, simply because I point out Bambi's flaws.
I'm not sure how the "tu quoque" argument works, exactly. Can you spell it out for me, since I apparently don't understand complex things?
And voting & all that. I vote early and often - I live in King County, where it's encouraged and supported.
Now, fire away again. You do know that you can't make a man feel guilty without his consent, right?
And here's what the leftists don't understand: the dextrosphere just finds it funny how much the leftists are exploding with false rage.
Pelosi and Reid fail to accomplish any of their goals (how's that war going?), and the left gives their own party a pass.
But point out Bambi's many flaws (brings a teleprompter to a rodeo), and that causes all heck to break out.
It's hilarious. We on the right simply point stuff out, and it's a palinapalooza.
By the way, don't you find it interesting that the Tasergate isn't getting any traction, especially when the cop in question is such a louse that he tasers his own kid?
"Don't tase me, Dad."
"you didn't even reveal the fact that it was Karl Rove who said it"
The link is there for a reason. Click it. I'm not hiding anything. We don't spoon-feed here. You have to be active and you have to think. Or you don't get this blog. Now shape up and stop being so damned boring. Raise your game.
Michael, I can't tell if you're really an Obama supporter or an undercover detractor trying to swing people to McCain.
Michael: Fen and Miller: Both racists who just can't own up to it.
Ha. At least you're admitting that blacks can be racist.
Careful with that, your liberal pals brand you a heretic for thinking that.
Disagreeing with a leftist != racist.
Or can you simply not handle the fact that people can disagree about something without being Satan Incarnate?
blogless:
And I honestly, and perhaps naively, don't understand why there has to be such hostility (on both sides, really) and why we can't all agree that we want to end up with the same results (good schools, etc.) but that there are just different theories how to get there.
Amen to that.
Well, since we're quoting people everybody should recognize, etc., here's something from one of Sarah Palin's favorites:
He expressed his fervent hope about Robert F. Kennedy, as Kennedy contemplated his own run for the presidency in 1965, that "some white patriot of the Southern tier will spatter his spoonful of brains in public premises before the snow flies."
Rove sees Obama simply as a man who is an opponent, not as a black man (he's white too). That's why the statement make sense to him, but not to liberals who see people first by their group affiliation (race). Rove was saying Obama's the kinda guy who stands there looking down at people and commenting on their clinging to guns,religion or lipstick. It stops making sense as soon as your racism sees him first as a black man (he's also white).
And Michael reaches deep, deep into left field and pulls out a ... dropped ball.
bagoh20 said..."Rove sees Obama simply as a man who is an opponent, not as a black man...the kinda guy who stands there looking down at people..."
You mean; "uppity"
Right?
Miller, Aren't you familiar with Palin's favorite?
Hah. As I've said before, you can't make someone feel guilty without their consent.
But flail away. You are certainly helping your side in this argument. Really.
freema, I support Obama and respect McCain.
I'm not real big on Palin.
Miller, You really don't know who it is, do you?
Why not just admit it?
I'm not sure why you think this is relevant. Perhaps you can help me - who, exactly, is Tony Rezko? And how much of an assist to Bambi did he give?
Some punctuation and grammar fixed. ^^^
I don't find it particularly arrogant to not know precisely how many homes a person owns at any given specific time. Residences come and go. The process of coming and going itself takes time. Some are visited frequently, others hardly at all.
A friend bought a cabin, an old barracks attached to an run out Colorado gold mine. Its remote location precluded frequent visits. The one time I had a chance to visit the place, before the guy died, oi, you should have seen the flies that died and accumulated on the window sills. Hundreds of them, if not thousands. Gives me chills just thinking about it. Yet, it was a place worth having. Right up there in God's own country, at tree line. Hummingbirds preforming aerial maneuvers all day long. Beavers. Long horn sheep. Marmots, all the rest. I doubt he would have calculated it as an actual residence. Yet if he were running for high office and then asked that question about residencies knowing his answer will closely examined, he might demure.
My own father bought houses at various places we lived. He liked to keep them until management became problematic. Were you to ask him, in any given year, how many he currently owned, he'd have difficulty calculating with precision being careful to include the ones he was currently getting rid of, along with the one presently being built along with a vacation piede a terre still owned but seldom visited. It was a problem for us to uncover his real property when he died. We had to have help.
Another friend's family owns what they call a "cabin" in New York that is actually a huge log house. They use it infrequently for family gatherings, yet maintain a staff. The family has become quite large and the son of the family, a twin actually, wants to build more cabins on the compound to house the expanding extended family during these gatherings. (The property is beautiful. My friend just bought a gigantic totem pole.) It's the son's idea and his construction plans but it makes sense tax-wise to use the father's money to build the new cabins. Now, were you to ask any of these individuals at any point while these additional cabins were in construction, or even after, how many homes they owned, they would have difficulty answering with precision.
There's nothing the slightest bit arrogant here. Saying it's arrogant says more about your own lack of interest in real estate than anything else. A lack of interest I share, by the way. Unlike my own brothers, personally, I don't care to own real property. Too many problems to keep track.
I shouldn't mention the slum lord I know who buys houses for investment because he can tell you with precision how many he owns at any given time. Last time I asked him he answered fourteen. They're all located in Denver and he's completely beholden to their management. I call him a slum lord because he takes ordinary houses designed for single family residence and breaks them down into smaller units to rent. He bought a house I lived in and turned it into three apartments, and that couldn't have been comfortable, charging each renter above the amount I was paying.
Michael (LOS) and AngryLiberal-
If I didn't read your posts I would be completely clueless on the big new thing among the lefties. Apparently SP used a positive quote that came from a man who is quoted as saying nasty things. I must add that as far as I can tell by following the links that almost all of the sources are not directly quoting him, but paraphrasing him. Close enough for the left wing, though. When the pix come in with SP in a tailored brown shirt, goosestepping with the First Dude, then the jig will be up.
rich: Nobody "paraphrased" anything.
Robert Kennedy, Jr:
"Fascist writer Westbrook Pegler, an avowed racist who Sarah Palin approvingly quoted in her acceptance speech for the moral superiority of small town values, expressed his fervent hope about my father, Robert F. Kennedy, as he contemplated his own run for the presidency in 1965, that 'some white patriot of the Southern tier will spatter his spoonful of brains in public premises before the snow flies.'"
I don't find it particularly arrogant to not know precisely how many homes a person owns at any given specific time. Residences come and go. The process of coming and going itself takes time. Some are visited frequently, others hardly at all.
I agree it's not arrogant. It is, however, a mindview well outside the norm for Joe Sixpack Voter. And when asked, you really should have a coherent answer. I think McCain should have anticipated the fairly basic question.
I own only one house. I don't own a vacation home 'cause then I'd feel obligated to vacation in one spot only, which would bore me. And I don't own rental properties (hassle), or properties that elderly relatives live in (they all own their own). I guess that's my disclaimer.
Miller, I find it rather hard to believe a wingnut like yourself does not know who Rezko is.
Then again, based on some you your inane comments...
Oh my.
This will be the scandal that (at last!) sticks.
Perhaps you should run with this more. I'm pretty sure the people in America (a) know who Westbrook Pegler is and (b) care about this stuff.
Please, post this everywhere. You'll convince the independents. This time for sure.
Perhaps you can edumacate me on who Tony Rezko is.
He is, after all, a Chicagoland guy. Lived there his whole life, I'm sure, and was part of Bambi's early life.
But it's not clear to me exactly how he influenced Bambi.
Perhaps it was the sweetheart deal on the house?
Miller asks: "
Perhaps it was the sweetheart deal on the house?
Not according to FactCheck.org:
Rezko's wife bought an adjoining tract but later sold the land at a profit. Obama paid market price for his home.
But you already knew that.
Lying liars and the lies they tell?
Do tell.
In fact, I think the thing you should do now is market this information that Bambi did NOT receive a sweetheart deal on the housing.
Please. Tell more people about this.
While you're at it, you can explain how Bambi lost $150 in public funds in his school scheme.
Maybe that's hidden away in a mattress somewhere?
AlphaLiberal said... Ann Althouse, going whole hog in shoveling out right wing attacks on Obama.
Barack Hussein Obama like any true muslim doesn't like the hog. He just doesn't like pigs, lipstick or not.
miller said... Disagreeing with a leftist != racist.
The saying is - A racist is anybody beating a liberal in an argument.
bagoh20 said...
Rove sees Obama simply as a man who is an opponent, not as a black man (he's white too). That's why the statement make sense to him, but not to liberals who see people first by their group affiliation (race). Rove was saying Obama's the kinda guy who stands there looking down at people and commenting on their clinging to guns,religion or lipstick. It stops making sense as soon as your racism sees him first as a black man (he's also white).
That's true. Rove is profiling a personality type not a race.
The Obamadroids don't get it because they are humorless and racially vindictive.
They wait for the opportunity to denounce the sinners in their midst.
Their narrative is the sinful world in need of a redeemer narrative. They represent the prophetic minority surrounded by racial sinners most of whom are in denial and who have learned to cover up their sins in public.
The Obamadroids are always on the look out to expose those racial sins.
It's gotten to the point where the Obamadroids are like Dana Carvey's Church Lady from SNL. But instead of screeching out "satan" they say "racist".
Ahem.
$150 million.
not $150.
I was thinking of my own weekly salary.
Here's the thing - for me, I am so frustrated with the media and public focus on any particular candidate's gaffes. They all make them, and all it does is get one side frustrated at the misrepresentation, and the other euphoric over the gotcha moment.
Perhaps it's because I was a trial attorney, and know the rules of evidence, it's frustrating to see every rumor, and every bit of hearsay being repeated not only in emails, but even on TV news. There are reasons why we have the rules we do for evidence in trial - it makes what the jurors hear more reliable. (Plus, once you believe someone is prone to misrepresent something, or even exaggerate it, they lose credibility.)
I understand why the media does it - focusing attention on these things and making this as close a horse race as they can only increases the number of people tuning in. But I wish people would stand back and truly look at everything they hear and see and imagine that it was their own candidate saying or doing these things, and how would view this through that lens. I just think there has been a real loss of objectivity and consistency.
As for me, like I said, I'm firmly in the center. I disagree with Palin on many issues (I am pro-choice although I have a profound respect for those who are pro-life, and I get very nervous when creationism is discussed seriously), but I am also angered when the left claims she is anti-feminist, unless you define feminism solely in terms of believing in leftist policy.
Again, I am not sure what to do in November. I have always had problems with the religious right-wing of the Republican party, and I'd love to see our country get back on track with things like stem cell research.
At the same time, I am finding that there is a fundamentalist of sorts side to the left, and a seeming distain for Republicans coupled with a belief that those who vote that way are voting against their interests (=stupid). It's the surest way to lose an election, and I fear that the Dems are shooting themselves in the foot this way - again.
jdeeripper...ahhhhh, and yet another racist joins the fray.
Do you know Miller and Petey?
They don't like people of color either.
Maybe you could all join a club...or start one of your own.
*And I love the use of Obama's middle name and saying he's a Muslim...it really helps solidify my point.
Hey, thanks, Michael!
I see that you believe that repeating a lie makes it true.
Nice. You can make quite a living arguing cases before the bar with that talent.
Remember however the fatal weakness to your plan: no one can make a man feel guilty without his consent.
But on the playground, it's a winning strategy.
I am a member of the rabble in good standing.
--Westbrook Pegler
Doesn't sound like a fascist to me.
At the risk of pointing out the obvious - "I must add that as far as I can tell by following the links that almost all of the sources are not directly quoting him, but paraphrasing him." Try reading more slowly, with less anger.
BTW, I see the splatter quote referenced ad nauseam, but I see no source, nor do I see a source for the small towns quote, other than Thomas Frank (otherwise known as the "Wall Street Journal"). Got a source, other than hearsay?
Given the left's fevers about Palin, forgive me for being distrustful.
ricpic said..."Doesn't sound like a fascist to me."
Well, of course not, this is YOUR kind of guy...
1. Pegler became a supporter of the campaign to portray the New Deal as an internationalist Communist plot.
2. In the 1950s, Pegler was showing some nostalgia for the Third Reich.
3. His assertion in November 1963 (at the height of the civil rights movement) that it is "clearly the bounden duty of all intelligent Americans to proclaim and practice bigotry."
4. He embraced the label racist, "a common but false synonym for Nazi, used by the bigots of New York."
5. He called Jews "geese," because they hiss when they talk, gulp down everything before them, and foul everything in their wake.
6. He criticized every president from Herbert Hoover to Franklin D. Roosevelt ("moosejaw") to Harry Truman ("a thin-lipped hater") to John F. Kennedy.
7. His late writing appeared sporadically in various publications, including the John Birch Society's American Opinion.
Michael,
When you steal from Wikipedia, you should quote your sources.
Rich: The quote is taken directly from:
Paradise Shot to Hell: The Westbrook Pegler Story. W.W. Norton & Company, Sharlet, Jeff (August 2003)
Please provide the exact quote of time & place, not that Robert Kennedy mentioned it.
C'mon AlphaLiberal, lighten up. I'm beginning to think your emotions run the gamut from anger to blind rage.
Well as one of the oft seen bumperstickers of the lefties is If you aren't outraged then you're not paying attention! that's not a stretch to make such an assumption.
Miller, I didn't "steal" anything, asshole.
I could spend the entire day providing links, references, etc., but you, as others, can always do your own research and as you call it, "steal" anything you feel necessary to refute arguments.
And by the way, Wikipedia is considered an excellent source of immediate reference.
Do some research of your own:
http://www.teachinglibrarian.org/weblog/2008/05/how-wikipedia-stacked-up-against.html
The New Deal wasn't an internationalist communist plot? Funny, FDR's brilliant NYU brain trusters were all good to go with Uncle Joe.
Ann put up the quote from Rove because it's what the majority of her readers enjoy, not because she agrees with it.
She could have put up any number of other ones, but she chose the one that she knew would garner the most comments. Most of her posts are indeed "comment bait," or, negative items about Obama, who Ann's readers dislike. This is a practical and smart move, if she wants to keep up her sitemeter statistics and keep pulling in that ad revenue.
Make no mistake, this isn't the blog of some woman on a personal journey trying to decide who she's going to vote for, it's an exercise in vanity where page views matter more than actual original content.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Oh mi gosh! I'm called a name!
Surely my arguments are unfounded.
Michael, learn a bit of courtesy.
When you take something from another source without attribution but representing as your own content, that's stealing.
You got caught, and now you're squealing.
Read this carefully: I'm not questioning that Wikipedia is a source for content.
I'm saying that YOU took from Wikipedia w/o attribution.
You are the one who doesn't know how to quote your sources.
And you don't know what those sources say. You're just quoting the content.
Please point out the page reference and content to the quote provided in a book written 50 years after the event happened.
Is this a quote by Westbrook Pegler, or is it a quote by Robert Kennedy who alleges it was said/printed? That's all I asked.
Flying off the handle in rage doesn't improve your position, you know.
jdeeripper said...
AlphaLiberal said... Ann Althouse, going whole hog in shoveling out right wing attacks on Obama.
Barack Hussein Obama like any true muslim doesn't like the hog. He just doesn't like pigs, lipstick or not.
Well, I don't believe he is currently a Muslim. But has any sighting ever been made of Obamessiah gobbling up a pork product on the campaign trail?
I do understand one of his daughters says he loves bacon. And that he promised them a dog (an Islamically "unclean" animal few Muslims seem to like or keep)
Miller: Once again...
"Paradise Shot to Hell: The Westbrook Pegler Story"
W.W. Norton & Company, Jeff Sharlet (August 2003)
I know you're not big on actually reading or researching, but why not take the time to look up Jeff Sharlet, maybe even read something he's written, until you're satisfied. (And do you really think Kennedy would throw out a quote without researching it first? Even you're not that dense...are you?)
I'll make it easy on you:
http://aconstantineblacklist.blogspot.com/2008/09/palin-quotes-domestic-nazi-westbrook.html
Page reference please.
And saying that R. Kennedy wouldn't make something up doesn't really impress me.
He is, after all, the guy who wiretapped King.
You trust that kind of guy?
(BTW, I supported R. Kennedy in 68, and was very very upset when he was killed. I'm just noting that according to YOUR standards if someone fails in one area he fails in ALL areas. Pot, meet kettle.)
Miller, you're a frigging idiot.
I'm not publishing an article or writing a book. I don't have to provide a link or reference point for you to verify everything I post. If someone disputes what I post, they can take a shot at looking it up or ask me to provide a link or reference.
This is a thread on a blog and people don't have to provide immediate references to where they come by their information.
The entire blog would be nothing but references and no commentary.
When you said Rezko provided a "sweetheart deal" on Obama's house what is your reference? Who told you that or where did you hear it? (I provided FactCheck.org as a reference to my side.)
Can your charge be verified by an objective party?
Of course not, it's just YOU throwing out the usual garbage and lies.
There are still, to this day country clubs" that Karl and others of his ilk can be members, that Obama and even women can't.
What part of PRIVATE CLUBS don’t you understand? I would bet there are woman’s organizations that do not admit men and their are Black organizations that do not admit Whites. They are PRIVATE and have the right to admit or not admit anyone they choose.
Michael,
Perhaps you can explain why a club or association of white men that doesn't seek women or minorities is racist or sexist...
Whereas a "Jews-only allowed: club or business cabal, a black-only professional association, a Womyn-only hired company isn't?
Why is one category of exclusivity "despicable" while other racially, religion, of gender based exclusivity - termed "understandable, empowering, praiseworthy?"
Muslim-only social clubs, swim times?
*When was the last time anybody here, including you, Ann...ran into a black man "at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by"??
The employee Christmas party.
miller said..."And saying that R. Kennedy wouldn't make something up doesn't really impress me. He is, after all, the guy who wiretapped King."
Good Lord, you ARE an idiot.
You think it's Robert Kennedy who provided the quote?
Robert Kennedy was assassinated in 1968. He's dead.
Do you ever actually read anything or just talk??
[i]Well as one of the oft seen bumperstickers of the lefties is If you aren't outraged then you're not paying attention! that's not a stretch to make such an assumption.[/i]
But isn't that counterproductive? That may get the thumbs up for those already on your side, but the implication for anyone still unsure, or for those not "outraged" is that it is that they weren't paying attention. You can't win people over by insulting them.
Michael-
I just checked Amazon. There is no such book called Paradise Shot to Hell. There is a chapter in a book called Boob Jubilee by that name. Surprise: Thomas Frank is a contributor.
From the url you cited, this gem: "You have to be pretty old to know that Pegler would be a treasure house of right-wing populist jargon. The fact is--and I've been checking this all day--no one under 65 with whom I spoke had the slightest idea who he was. So who, then, would know to breeze through the writing of Westbrook Pegler, of all people, in search of what is, after all, just a cliche? Surely only someone knowledgeable (and sympathetic to?) native American fascism."
That's the whole "scandal" in a nutshell - this is so obscure that only a fascist would know it.
You're gullible and can only repeat what you've heard.
Cedarford asks: "Perhaps you can explain why a club or association of white men that doesn't seek women or minorities is racist or sexist..."
If you don't I'm afraid I can't help you.
Oops, sorry, I thought I knew how to do italics.
Michael said...
jdeeripper...ahhhhh, and yet another racist joins the fray.
I've been fraying here on Althouse for a while.
Do you know Miller and Petey?They don't like people of color either.
I would never associate with such rabble.
Maybe you could all join a club...or start one of your own.
I started one a long time ago. It's the only one that will let me join.
*And I love the use of Obama's middle name and saying he's a Muslim...it really helps solidify my point.
And your failure to get the joke confirms my point as well.
Cedarford said... Well, I don't believe he is currently a Muslim. But has any sighting ever been made of Obamessiah gobbling up a pork product on the campaign trail?
I don't think he's a Muslim either. He's most likely an atheist like his mother and only joined Rev. Wright's church for political and racial reasons.
Petey asks: "What part of PRIVATE CLUBS don’t you understand?"
Here's the quote: "He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by."
Are you and Miller enrolled in the same reading comprehension class?
There's no reference to anything being "private."
And as for that aspect of clubs, etc., I do understand some clubs are "private" and I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, as long as they also adhere to any rules or regulations dealing with "public funding" or tax guidelines.
I want to join the one armed black lesbian club. But threefers won't let onefers in.
Rich, Amazon doesn't list all kinds of books, articles or sections that appear in books.
Try "Killing the Buddha," which includes a portion that is titled "Paradise Shot to Hell," dealing with Millers BFF.
Lucky asked Instead of denigrating Obama on a regular basis, why not list all of your major accomplishments in life so we can compare?
Ah. Well... I attended Juilliard... I'm a graduate of the Harvard business school. I travel quite extensively. I lived through the Black Plague and had a pretty good time during that. I've seen the EXORCIST ABOUT A HUNDRED AND SIXTY-SEVEN TIMES, AND IT KEEPS GETTING FUNNIER EVERY SINGLE TIME I SEE IT... NOT TO MENTION THE FACT THAT YOU'RE TALKING TO A DEAD GUY... NOW WHAT DO YOU THINK? You think I'm qualified?
Michael-
Bzzz! Wrong again. You can search for the section - that's how I found out that Paradise Shot to Hell was not a book but a chapter in a book.
Found no such section in Killing the Buddha, even examining the table of contents.
You really have to start thinking for yourself.
BTW, there is a new ad featuring a guy who was a POW with McCain and says that he is not fit to lead. The guy's name is Philip Butler and I seem to recall a guy by that name in Coram's biography of Bud Day. Does anybody have the book? Could you look him up in the index?
Michael said...
Petey, I'm not going to engage you in yet another discussion of what a community organizer actually does and how important they are to those who need the help, but you and I both know this for sure: You yourself have never spent one single day of your life doing anything of the sort.
Oh really? And what have you done with your low, miserable life, except complain about what you and others like you are entitled to? The Entitlement Generation is an apt description for you.
Instead of denigrating Obama on a regular basis, why not list all of your major accomplishments in life so we can compare?
I am not running for public office. He is. His resume is light. Very light. A guy who never held a full time job in his life. That is not denigration. That is fact. But since you insist:
Almost thirty years as a Chicago Police Officer trumps community organizer any day of the week? I worked in communities, with communities, and for communities. Some of the worst in this nation.
How many shoot outs were community organizers in?
How many lives have they saved?
How many burning buildings have they run into?
How many babies have they delivered?
How many gangbangers have they arrested?
How many dope dealers?
How many murderers have they caught?
How many busted and broken children have they taken to hospitals?
How many impoverished homes have they visited?
How many rapists have they taken off the street?
How many abortion clinics have they protected?
How many protestors have they protected?
How many people have they found shelter for after some disaster?
How many families have they had to tell that a loved one was killed?
How many gang fights have they broken up?
That is just a short list of the things I have done. Oh, and unlike your Messiah, it is all documented on paper in black and white.
What does a community organizer do again?
If they were doing such a good job, why are people still living in misery and poverty with no hope or change in sight? You know, change they can believe in?
Oh, and when I was working- as a volunteer on my own dime for four days at the WTC site after 9/11, I did not happen to notice any community organizers there pitching in. They were all in Times Square protesting a war that had not even been thought of yet. I was there one night too.
I do know this about community organizers; they work with criminals, street gangs and dope dealers. They even get money from them to fund their causes. They broker peace deals so the gangs and dope dealers can do their business without too much violence. They support street gangs(La Raza comes to mind). They interfere with law enforcement and hamper our efforts to protect the citizens who are least protected. Acorn is one of the largest community organizing groups in the country. Several states have filed criminal charges against them for vote fraud. That I do know. Oh, I did not have to read a book, biography, articles, and interviews to determine that. I got that from professional experience; eye witness experience. So, no, I do not think community organizers are important. I think they are useless.
Now, what the fuck have you ever done?
Michael said...
Have YOU ever run into a black man at a country club (if you actually belong to one) acting in such a manner? Anywhere for that matter?
I heard that Vernon Jordan is pretty arrogant, especially on the golf course.
Michael said...
roger, Rove work for the McCain campaign.
Do not ever criticize my spelling, mistyping, or whatever again.
Petey, Oh, poor baby.
Are we a litte touchy today...little girl?
Petey, are you drunk? Doing drugs?
You ask this about community organizers:
"How many shoot outs were community organizers in?"
"How many lives have they saved?"
Well, I'd hope they're not exchanging gunshots with the locals, and I'd bet they've saved plenty of lives.
The rest of your list is so insane it's not worth the time.
Oh, and remember this: Jesus was a community organizer.
Do YOU hate Jesus, too?
And please provide some evidence of this inane comment: "...rampant corruption and cronyism, and his constant lying..."
Obama is a product of the Chicago Democrat Machine. It is full of rampant corruption and cronyism. His sponsor and political mentor is Emil Jones, one of the most thoroughly politically corrupt men in the state. He was financed, bought and paid for by Tony Rezko, a now convicted power broker. He has taken money form other corrupt Democrats and businessmen too. All documented in various news publications over the past two years. But, you only read things like TPM and Huffingglue.
Enough evidence for you.
Petey: "Now, what the fuck have you ever done?"
Hopefully I've pushed you even closer to that inevitable heart attack you're inching your way towards every day.
Now pop another Prozac and slug it down with another shot of whatever your drinking.
According to poltico, Rove informally advises the McCain Campaign. I personally don't regard rendering informal advice as working for, but YMMV.
Petey, Have you mentioned tho any of the 100's of people and organizations who have been vetting Obama??
Why hasn't he been arrested?
This sounds like real news.
Call it in to Fox.
Michael said:
"You mean; "uppity" Right?"
That like most of what you have written makes no sense to people who see Obama as a man. To think like you, requires seeing him primarily a black first. (He's white too).
To protect him from these criticisms because of his race is treating him as less than a man, and there is a word for that.
So Michael, heal thy self.
Mikey,
you asked what I ever did. I compared it to useless comunity organizers. I answered your fucking question.
Oh, and remember this: Jesus was a community organizer.
Sorry, bucko, that is an anti religious liberal lie. Jesus was never a community organizer. He was a preacher. He was falsely accused of organizing by the leaders of the synagogue who were jealous of his ministry. Under Roman law, any organizing was illegal. Jesus preached that civil law must be followed. He did not organize communities, as that would have been treason.
I guess you never read the bible, took a biblical history class, or even went to church.
Mikey,
You really do not like it when people prove you wrong or they answer your questions and they are not the anwers you want.
Then, like a little child, you want to personally insult people. I guess that is the new liberal tactic. Personally attack anyone who refuses to drink your kool aid.
Michael said...
Petey, Oh, poor baby.
Are we a litte touchy today...little girl?
I can see that your exceptional education paid off. Now, what high school are you going to?
Petey says...and I swear, as we speak...he's getting closer to the big one:
"...useless comunity organizers."
Useless to who? YOU? People who need assistance? (What kind of cop were you?)
"Jesus was never a community orgnaizer. He was a preacher. He was falsely accused of organizing."
Now there's a classic if there ever was one: You say "He was falsely ACCUSED of organizing," and that "Under Roman law, organizing was illegal," hence, he couldn't have been "organizing.
"I guess you never read the bilble, took a bilical history class, or even went to church."
Strange you should mention that because right now I'm negotiating to buy my very own church so I can start my very own religion...and it's going to be "private."
That's right, no wingnuts allowed.
Petey, I skipped High School and went right into college.
Masters Degree.
Michael said...
Petey, Have you mentioned tho any of the 100's of people and organizations who have been vetting Obama??
They all come up with the same thing. He has a degree and law degree. He has never held a full time job. He is part of the corrupt and crony laden Chicago Machine, his mentor is a corrupt politican, he never grew up in Chicago, and he has never accomplshed one damn thing. He has never even had a full time job.
That boils down the vetting of Barak Obama.
Michael said...
Petey, I skipped High School and went right into college.
Masters Degree.
Macrame or basket weaving?
bagoh20: Yeah, you hear the term "arrogant black man" much more than "uppity black man."
Hiding what you are with various terms that sound better means nothing.
YOU know exactly what the quote refers to.
Petey: Both.
Welding was right up there, too.
Michael said...
Petey says...and I swear, as we speak...he's getting closer to the big one:
"...useless comunity organizers."
Useless to who? YOU? People who need assistance? (What kind of cop were you?)
Useless. I could not find a more appropriate word to describe people who do nothing.
I was a pretty good cop, actually. I helped all those people that community organizers never did.
And Bella hits with a right then a left then an uppercut and Michael is down. He's badly hurt, mumbling some incoherent drivel. The ref needs to call this fight before his career is ended. They can't just let this carnage continue. Please stop it. Save him!
Michael said...
Petey: Both.
Welding was right up there, too.
I doubt that. It takes some knowlege and intelligence to weld properly.
rich, if you think the quote was made up out of whole cloth by Robert Kennedy, Jr. that's up to you, but he's not the only one who has quoted the asshole you apparently respect.
One more time:
“Paradise Shot to Hell: The Westbrook Pegler Story,” by Jeff Sharlet
http://jeffsharlet.com/content/?s=Paradise+Shot+to+Hell%3A+The+Westbrook+Pegler+Story
Petey, Not if you do it right.
Cedarford asks: "Perhaps you can explain why a club or association of white men that doesn't seek women or minorities is racist or sexist..."
If you don't I'm afraid I can't help you.
I'm a member of AAUW and you can't join. Does this make me a sexist?
(I think that LOSer is off his meds today.)
bunny, is it a "private" club?
If you're going to attack, at least be specific.
AAUW = Association of American Univeristy Women.
Unless you have had a sex change operation, you don't qualify.
Bunny - You might want to check out the membership guidelines of your organization.
AAUW - A powerful network of educated women.
Who can join?
AAUW membership consists of individual and college/university members.
AAUW values and seeks a diverse membership.
There shall be no barriers to full participation in this organization on the basis of gender, race, creed, age, sexual orientation, national origin, disability, or class.
Bunny: "Unless you have had a sex change operation, you don't qualify."
Guess it's a good thing I put off that "sex change operation," huh?
That was close.
There shall be no barriers to full participation in this organization on the basis of gender, race, creed, age, sexual orientation, national origin, disability, or class.
OK you can join, but we are going to gossip about you behind your back and make fun of your clothes. You won't like it.
Bunny, I'm still shaking over how close I came to having that you-know-what.
And, as for talking behind my back, I get enough of it right here in full view.
Sounds like Michael accidentally gave himself an overdose of cordrazine.
"RACISTS!! FASCISTS!! KILLERS!! ASSASSINS!!
I WON'T LET YOU!! I'LL KILL YOU FIRST!!"
I don't know that I've ever seen someone get so entirely owned by multiple people in one thread and yet continue posting in it.
You are one tenacious guy, Michael.
Have YOU ever run into a black man at a country club
Is Tiger Woods black enough?
Just askin....
Michael said...
Petey, I skipped High School and went right into college.
Masters Degree.
Oh, so that's your excuse now? Did you have to ask the Dean of Students to supply you with a high chair too?
Oh, and remember this: Jesus was a community organizer.
Evidently you and Susan Sarandon haven't read the New Testament.
Michael-
I searched for that RFK Jr quote and all I can find is LW sites repeating it. Sort of a Hall of Mirrors effect. If the quote is accurate, there must be some ultimate source. What corroboration is there?
The chain of logic here is pretty absurd. Palin uses quote in speech, someone claims it is from Westbrook Pegler. Someone claims that Pegler is fascist, ergo Palin is fascist. Essentially, it's "takes one to know one", a popular schoolyard aphorism.
I actually found a copy of Paradise Shot to Hell in PDF - http://freepdfhosting.com/9050a3d1ee.pdf.
Sharlet quotes WP as making the RFK splatter comment in 1965, but later in the article he says that Pegler was banished from mainstream journalism in 1962, which raises the question of where that quote was published.
I think it was made up.
Michael row the boat ashore, hallelujah
Michael row the boat ashore, hallelujah
My brothers and sisters are all aboard, hallelujah
My brothers and sisters are all aboard, hallelujah
Michael row the boat ashore, hallelujah
Michael row the boat ashore, hallelujah
The river is deep and the river is wide, hallelujah
Milk and honey on the other side, hallelujah
Michael row the boat ashore, hallelujah
Michael row the boat ashore, hallelujah
Jordan's river is chilly and cold, hallelujah
Chills the body but not the soul, hallelujah
Michael row the boat ashore, hallelujah
Michael row the boat ashore, hallelujah
Wait, is that racist?
Is Tiger Woods black enough?
He is not Black. He was honest about his ethnicity. He is Cabalasian.
Oh, so that's your excuse now? Did you have to ask the Dean of Students to supply you with a high chair too?
He did not ask. He demanded. He is entitled, like his whole generation.
"I skipped High School and went right into college.
Masters Degree."
in "Bation", no doubt.
I have come to the conclusion that Michael and Alpha are racists. They hate White people.
I don't really know what country clubs being white (pretending that's True) has to do with the sort of personality described.
I've never *been* in a country club (they're for those *other* white people) and yet I know the type.
Most importantly there is nothing at all about the "type" that actually suggests they have money. It's an attitude that values a social station.
I don't think this is something Rove made up because I can think of people who it just wouldn't stick to. Would it stick to Bill Clinton? I don't think so.
And you know... we've heard Obama make the sort of snide jokes that say one thing but cleverly slam the person he's supposedly complimenting. Yes... even if you never met him... we know this guy.
"Today we have Lynn Forester de Rothschild, who splits her time living in London and New York, who's married to international banker Sir Evelyn de Rothschild...calling Obama..."arrogant.""
This word... I do not think it means what you think it means.
Honestly... I've never heard Lynn Forester de Rothschild say anything about anything. She could be entirely down to earth or entirely arrogant... but assuming that she is because she has wealth and spends it isn't evidence one way or the other.
"And speaking of "arrogance," how arrogant is it when someone asks you how many homes you own, and you just laugh and say you really don't know?"
How can you be so consistently wrong?
An arrogant person would KNOW.
"Oh, and remember this: Jesus was a community organizer.
Do YOU hate Jesus, too?"
Do you have any idea whatsoever how much this argument *damages* your hero?
And Jesus never was a community organizer of any sort. He simply never was. His purpose was not community organizing. He did *NOTHING* more active in that direction than remind people of the directions in the old testament. Unless you can describe *what* He did that counts as community organizing or focusing on that goal... you're just a liar. Jesus was trained as a carpenter and he didn't even spend time building houses for the poor.
His disciples and the early churches often took collections for true orphans and widows (those without other family to care for them... can you imagine a "needs test" like this for government assistance!) But Jesus didn't concentrate on this. He concentrated on religious teaching and prophecy.
I love the constant drumbeat of how "arrogance" should be a focal point of voters.
Well, how about "intelligence" as a focal point?
Why would anyone with an ounce of sense have this person as a top economic adviser?
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - Hewlett-Packard Co. Chairman and CEO Carly Fiorina is leaving the troubled computer maker after being forced out by the company's board.
Shares of HP (Research) jumped 6.9 percent in heavy trading on the New York Stock Exchange Wednesday on the news. But at one point, the stock was up as much as 10.5 percent.
"Nobody liked Carly's leadership all that much," said Robert Cihra, an analyst with Fulcrum Global Partners. "The Street had lost all faith in her and the market's hope is that anyone will be better."
Synova: Jesus was a community organizer.
No, see, that's the difference between Jesus and this community organizer: Jesus didn't think he was a community organizer.
Well, how about "intelligence" as a focal point?
It doesn't work out, historically.
synova: "Honestly... I've never heard Lynn Forester de Rothschild say anything about anything. She could be entirely down to earth or entirely arrogant..."
Oh, she is, she is.
And she's "down to earth" enough to spread her special brand of "down to earthishness" to those who reside in both New York and London.
Do you fools realize that, from about 5:15 until now, over 5 hours later, damn near every single comment from "you fools" is to me, or about me.
Are you people all living together or something??
Good lord...get-a-life people.
A gallon of irony was spilled, and nary a drop got on him....
blake, your comment: "Jesus didn't think he was a community organizer"...has exactly what to do with him BEING a community organizer?
First of all, the term would not be in use so how would he even know if he was or not? It would be a concept of community that would come along later.
Second, you can be all kinds of things but not acknowledge it to be so.
Heroes come to mind.
You're not very bright, are you?
blake feels it's "ironic" that a group of fools would spend 5 hours ranting into the wind.
Yes, very.
Considering how many Democratic lunches Karl Rove has ingested, might it be prudent for the Obama camp and its partisans examine the statement?
No one likes a smartass. Anything that reinforces that impression of Obama is a bad move for His Oneness.
Peter V B: "I guess a forty something year old man who has done nothing but held part time jobs is qualified to be president. He has accomplished so much.
There is a kid flipping burgers right now who is dreaming about it."
Let us know when he graduates from Harvard Law School
Yeah
Yeah, I know this guy. Karl Rove, right? Hmmm, not sure abut the babe part.
Dick Cheney? That can't be right, everything else fits, but the snark would come out in f-bombs.
Dubya? No, he's on the wagon, so the martini glass part doesn't fit, though everything else does.
Rudy? Again, a perfect fit, but he likes to show up on social occasions dressed as the babe, so that can't be it.
Huckabee? Doesn't drink in public.
Romney? Ditto.
Wait, I've got it! You're reaching for a golden oldy. It's Kissinger!
I know that no one is down at this post anymore but I wanted to say, Michael... I WANT you to keep on saying that Jesus was a community organizer. It's ignorant (and you don't even try to support it with any examples of what he did that is what a community organizer would do) but it's useful... to McCain.
Comparing Obama to Jesus is what Rove wants you to do, McCain wants you to do, and what I want you to do. Out of decency and pity I tried to explain why the cute little phrase isn't true. I tried. I failed.
So by all means... carry on.
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