Althouse: "Barack Obama failed to lead, phoned it in, attacked John McCain and refused to even say if he supported the final bill."

September 29, 2008

"Barack Obama failed to lead, phoned it in, attacked John McCain and refused to even say if he supported the final bill."

The McCain blames Obama. But does Obama blame McCain?

AND: The House Republicans blame Pelosi. She "struck the tone of partisanship," they say, striking the tone of partisanship.

266 comments:

1 – 200 of 266 Newer› Newest»

Joseph said...: "She "struck the tone of partisanship," they say, striking the tone of partisanship."

Ha! Exactly what I was thinking.; 9/29/08, 5:44 PM
Unknown said...: Yes, Bill Burton is out there saying McCain was out on a double date with another Senator on a night he should have been making calls. So it would seem fingers are pointing in every direction.; 9/29/08, 5:45 PM
E.D. Kain said...: Right. Pelosi was mean, bruised the poor, sensitive Republicans' egoes, and thus they voted down a plan that could help salvage the economy.

Could help, maybe not. Either way, now the Repubs look like the badguys, no matter how much they wail and whine that Pelosi bullied them, or that Obama cast a voodoo spell upon them in some brilliant, evil political ambush...; 9/29/08, 5:46 PM
rhhardin said...: McCain's camp blames Obama on bailout failure

Blame is such a tricky verb, taking two complements. How to keep them straight?

I blame Obama on the bailout failure.

I blame the bailout failure on Obama.

How to choose? That's why we have editors.; 9/29/08, 5:47 PM
Chris said...: Don't the Democrats have a solid majority in the Congress? Would there even be enough votes to scuttle the bailout if each and every Republican had voted against it? I don't get it.; 9/29/08, 5:49 PM
rhhardin said...: Pointing the finger of blame is my favorite news idiom. It ought to turn up pretty soon.; 9/29/08, 5:51 PM
campy said...: You're trying to apply logic, chris wren. That doesn't work in DC.; 9/29/08, 5:52 PM
Anonymous said...: NeoConstant said...Right. Pelosi was mean, bruised the poor, sensitive Republicans' egoes, and thus they voted down a plan that could help salvage the economy.

And what did Queen Pelosi and Purple Barney do to bruise the egos of noted Republicans John Conyers, Shelia Jackson Lee and Dennis Kucinich?

A whole lot of blacks and Hispanics in Congress voted NO.

Why?; 9/29/08, 5:54 PM
Simon said...: NeoConstant said...
"Right. Pelosi was mean, bruised the poor, sensitive Republicans' egoes, and thus they voted down a plan that could help salvage the economy."

More likely they were persuaded, despite grave misgivings, to go along with a plan they were opposed to and didn't think would "salvage" the economy. Coming in on a knife edge, they were told (as Blake memorably put it commenting on Althouse's earlier post) "You scumsucking Wall Street-lovin' Rethuglicans caused this disaster all on your own, with absolutely no help or interference from us. Now, sign this regardless of what your constituents say and shell out $700B so we can blame you if it doesn't work." Astonishing that that would push them back over to the "no" camp! When someone desperately wants my help doing something I think is a mistake, I would certainly feel more inclined to help out despite my misgivings if they insulted me a little first.

Chris Wren said...
"Don't the Democrats have a solid majority in the Congress? Would there even be enough votes to scuttle the bailout if each and every Republican had voted against it? I don't get it."

I keep explaining this and I'm starting to wonder when people are going to grasp it. The dems are the majority party only so long as they are united. On this issue, however, they are divided, as the vote total demonstrates.; 9/29/08, 5:55 PM
Anonymous said...: The AP partaphrases Obam in Colorado. I can't find direct text but there is video at the link.

Democrat Barack Obama said Republican John McCain's long advocacy of deregulation contributed to the current financial crisis and letting his GOP rival continue those policies as president would be a gamble "we can't afford.

cbs4Denver

In other news in England Cameron blamed Brown and in Canada Dion blamed Harper...and the world goes 'round.; 9/29/08, 5:57 PM
Bart Hall (Kansas, USA) said...: This bill failed for one reason, and one reason only. The Democrats could not hold their votes.

Pelosi did not need a single Republican vote to get this bill through the house.

For some reason 95 Dems decided to vote against their own notoriously vindictive leadership, on this issue. Calls are reported to have been running 100 to 1 and even 1000 to 1 against.

I haven't seen the roll call yet, but I'll bet real money that only "safe" Dems voted for it. If you're in a tight race, your own voters are a greater threat than a putative bad committee assignment.; 9/29/08, 5:58 PM
Maxine Weiss said...: You can blame Clinton. The economy started to go bad in 2000 with the dotcom (Nasdaq) meltdown. And, nobody talked about bailing out the Nasdaq.

Oh wait, Clinton wasted all that tax-payer money fighting Y2k.....so there was nothing left to bailout all his dotcom friends .

Return to the good 'ol days !; 9/29/08, 5:59 PM
WB said...: Pelosi and Reid and Frank couldn't get 113 more Dems to vote with them. 95 voted nay. This is serious - they are an utterly inept leadership team. Who in their right mind slags off the other side before they've signed on the dotted line? If Pelosi worked for me I'd sack her.; 9/29/08, 6:02 PM
Anonymous said...: Here is more of a feel for the speech from The Rocky Mountain News-

WESTMINSTER — The failure of a $700 billion bailout package to get through Congress this morning forced Barack Obama to delay his speech at Mountain Range High School, but when he finally took the stage, he said it's "an outrage that we're in this mess."

The 40-minute speech was retooled as the restless crowd of more than 2,500 sat through several speakers who addressed the economic crisis in national and local terms.

Obama ripped President Bush several times and, as the campaign has been prone to doing, linked the unpopular president's name with Sen. John McCain.

"This is not a normal part of the business cycle," he said. "This crisis is a direct result of a philosophy of the people who have been running Washington for the last eight years have been following."

"It's about time we had adult supervision," Obama said to loud cheers.

link

Oh and Gingrich wants to fire Paulson.

But-McCain wants to fire Cox, let's just keep that straight.; 9/29/08, 6:05 PM
Chip Ahoy said...: Squirm.

Just don't blame Obama. You can't. He talks to God in the rain.; 9/29/08, 6:07 PM
Stupe said...: Has Mrs. Clinton's campaign debt been paid? If he's rising in the polls, he's got less and less incentive to pay her debt.

And, she's got less and less incentive to help him win. He hurts her chances in 2012, and now , to add insult, he's arrogantly refusing the cover her debts. She's already dropped clues, via Bill.

Come October, the real game-changer could be an angry Mrs. Clinton, on the warpath.; 9/29/08, 6:07 PM
Joseph said...: The Democrats could have passed a plan that was only supported by Democrats. The reason so many Democrats voted against it is that it included concessions to the Republicans so that it could be bipartisan. Now, I'd expect a new bill that is more in line with Democrats' values and less conciliatory toward Republicans. It will pick up more Democratic votes and fewer Republicans but Bush will be forced to sign it anyway.; 9/29/08, 6:09 PM
Too many jims said...: John McCain said he was suspending his campaign and not debating until "we have taken action to address this crisis." No action has been taken to address this crisis (though many phone calls were made). McCain resumed his campaign.

That raises the question, if you tell a lie and your partisans never call you on it, does that make you a lying fuck, or just a lying douchebag?; 9/29/08, 6:10 PM
Chet said...: URGENT:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU6fuFrdCJY

____________________; 9/29/08, 6:14 PM
NotWhoIUsedtoBe said...: 'The McCain'?

The McCain likes the shoes?; 9/29/08, 6:15 PM
former law student said...: Don't the Democrats have a solid majority in the Congress?

The Dems were spooked by the Republicans' refusal to back the Republican administration's bail out plan. Bad memories from high school started to surface. Suddenly they forgot why giving a trillion dollars to Wall Street firms fit their traditional Progressive/Populist beliefs.; 9/29/08, 6:19 PM
Balfegor said...: It will pick up more Democratic votes and fewer Republicans but Bush will be forced to sign it anyway.

Forced? Wasn't he ready to sign the bill as it stood on Thursday, before any of the Republican concessions had been inserted? I don't think he even cares about any of that.

Right. Pelosi was mean, bruised the poor, sensitive Republicans' egoes, and thus they voted down a plan that could help salvage the economy.

A plan that House Republicans were pretty clear -- have been pretty clear from the start -- they think is a bad idea. It's not shocking that they voted against it -- most of them don't seem to think it's necessary (perhaps they think differently now? haha). What is surprising is that Pelosi screwed up so badly. If she wanted 100 Republicans to vote with her, she might, you know, have acted like it.

Besides, as others are pointing out, she didn't need Republicans this time either. She managed to lose 95 Democrats. She did a big song and dance on Sunday about the bailout -- everyone was all smiles at the press conference -- but she counted wrong.

People are blaming Reid too, in this thread. I don't think he bears the responsibility. Yes, the Senate is foot-dragging, but now that the House just voted it down, it's not like it would become effective today anyway. The responsibility for this debacle is Pelosi's.; 9/29/08, 6:19 PM
Zachary Sire said...: McCain blames Obama. But does Obama blame McCain

AND: The House Republican's blame Pelosi.

Whatever. You know who I blame for all of this? Uh, Simon! And Victoria! And Beth! And especially Palladian.; 9/29/08, 6:20 PM
Anonymous said...: I thought it was funny how McCain proudly declared himself the maverick who forged the compromise. Right before it failed.

But that's probably not blogworthy.

I also got a kick out of how McCain said that this isn't a time for blame. Right after he, and his campaign, each separately, blamed it on Barack Obama.

But that's not blogworthy, either.

I was all used to blaming the greatest foreign policy catastrophe in American history on Bush and the Republicans. (And those who voted for him, hint hint.)

I never thought that we would also remember Bush as the failure who presided over the greatest economic catastrophe in our history.

What a run he's had!

Makes you wonder: What important component was missing from the judgement of the people who thought that it would be a good idea to elect this obvious misfit to high office?

Are these the same people who are so excited about ... Sarah Palin?

Woman can't answer a question, and she's adored by the same people who adore George W. Bush.

Really tells you all you need to know about the Republican base, doesn't it?

All I can say is, too bad for the United States that y'all can vote.; 9/29/08, 6:23 PM
Zachary Sire said...: This is also Trooper York's fault for going on luxury cruises.

I'd blame Obama and Palin, but that would be racist and sexist.; 9/29/08, 6:25 PM
Palladian said...: "And especially Palladian."

If you'd come to New York like I commanded a few weeks ago, none of this would have happened.; 9/29/08, 6:26 PM
Peter V. Bella said...: From channel flipping the various news channels one thing has come out; many of the Dems and Repubs voted no because their constituents were against this bill in vast numbers.

The other analysis is the total leadership breakdown on both sides of the aisle; but especially the Democrats. It seems that both parties are revolting against their leaders.

It is going to be a long interesting night.; 9/29/08, 6:28 PM
former law student said...: Really tells you all you need to know about the Republican base, doesn't it?

Having experienced eight years of Bush, no way do I want to see what kind of President McCain would make -- given the choice in 2000, Republican voters preferred Bush to McCain, two-to-one.; 9/29/08, 6:28 PM
Jim said...: Verso -

I'd go through the litany of stupidity that you displayed in your last post, but frankly I don't have the time.

Because the country is reaping the litany of failures caused during the previous decade (Clinton's failure to take terrorism seriously even after we were victims of it multiple times during his presidency, the Democratic insistence on lending money to people who couldn't afford to pay it back because of their identity politics, etc.), doesn't make it the fault of the people who were there when things finally shook out.

It's too bad you're so historically ignorant, and even worse that you're allowed to vote without being forced to educate yourself better first.; 9/29/08, 6:30 PM
Sofa King said...: All I can say is, too bad for the United States that y'all can vote.

Ha! Ha! You fail at democracy!; 9/29/08, 6:30 PM
Donn said...: I think Verso is responsible for the financial collapse.

Hey, it makes as much sense as blaming Bush.; 9/29/08, 6:30 PM
gefillmore said...: The House Republican's blame Pelosi.

The House Republicans blame Pelosi.; 9/29/08, 6:34 PM
Palladian said...: "I think Verso is responsible for the financial collapse."

Given how stupid Verso seems to be, I doubt that he has many finances to collapse.; 9/29/08, 6:36 PM
Donn said...: The House Democrat's blame McCain.

The House Democrat's blame McCain.; 9/29/08, 6:36 PM
Roger J. said...: I think the leadership on both sides of the aisle are sufficiently removed from their caucses that they are out of touch. Clearly to me, there are a enough constituencies out there that defy party leaders choices. This vote brought it home. IMO simple fact: the sine qua non of politics is to get relected. and if that means defying party leaders, then its the party leaders that are out of touch.; 9/29/08, 6:36 PM
Trooper York said...: Hey it wasn't a luxury cruise. It was cut rate...even the band was downsized..they used midget Filipinos.; 9/29/08, 6:36 PM
blake said...: OK, guys.

I admit it.

It was me. I made the bad loans and encourage people to live beyond their means. I didn't realize it would lead to such hideous problems.

Sorry.; 9/29/08, 6:38 PM
blake said...: I was just on a roll.; 9/29/08, 6:38 PM
Trooper York said...: Hey Zach that's a good idea that Palladian has for you. Much better than moving in with your folks. I am sure that he has several positions in mind for you.; 9/29/08, 6:38 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Pelosi had trouble getting a plane to take her non-stop to her constituencies in California.

Number 3 in line, had trouble getting a plane ride.

Pelosi couldn't pass a bong at a crack house.; 9/29/08, 6:44 PM
UWS guy said...: haha.

If teh gays can use this underpass of the althouse highway as a hookup spot...where are all my single female posters?

Let's make this place hip.

Christopher Hitchens was right when he said gays who want marriage miss the point of being gay.; 9/29/08, 6:46 PM
Methadras said...: Do not any of you realize that this was the intent all along? Fine, let's Republicans draw up a plan with the Democrats, let the House Republicans castigate the plan as an exercise in socialism that gives undo powers to the Sec. of Treasury over tax payer money with little to no oversight of who is going to get it, then when it comes time to vote, kill it. If none of you saw this coming then you didn't understand the politics that was right in front of your face.

The Republicans and some Democrats believe that $700 billion is not the end, but something to the tune of $1.5 to $3 trillion is where it will stop. $700 billion is the beginning and when that doesn't work, the congress or President will be back asking for another hit to really stave off the inevitable bleeder they can't stop.

This no vote basically will cause pain, but in the end many see this as burning out the flu that this 'crisis' has caused and hopefully severing the links that some of these financial institutions had with the government and amongst themselves. Compartmentalization in this regard seems to be key.; 9/29/08, 6:47 PM
UWS guy said...: Freeman Hunt is cute, too bad she somewhat to the right of Atilla the Hun.; 9/29/08, 6:48 PM
UWS guy said...: ...I'm also fairly certain, given her politics that Vsuprs is 82 years old so she's right out of the running also...; 9/29/08, 6:48 PM
Anonymous said...: UWS, and what would that point be?; 9/29/08, 6:50 PM
dbp said...: Does anybody know if Obama was for the bill or against it?

Whether the bill was good or bad, at least we know where McCain stood on it.; 9/29/08, 6:50 PM
UWS guy said...: Ask titus....; 9/29/08, 6:51 PM
vbspurs said...: A whole lot of blacks and Hispanics in Congress voted NO.

Maybe we should turn to President Lula of Brazil, who said that this Bill was going to help the rich, and screw the poor.

I don't know just which Hispanics voted no, but I can tell you that the 3 Cuban-Americans from South Florida (all Republicans, and who self-identify as white) faced an avalanche of voter outrage over the weekend. The emails, from local report, said that they would be toast if they voted for this "Socialist" option.

So, you see, different takes perhaps, from minorities. It's not just one "minority" reason.

Cheers,
Victoria; 9/29/08, 6:51 PM
James said...: My favorite little bit from the CNN.com political ticker (regarding the "phoned it in" line.

"Over the weekend, both McCain and major supporter Sen. Lindsey Graham used similar language in describing the reason for his choice. “John didn’t phone this one in,” Graham told Fox News. “You can’t phone something like this in. Thank God John came back.”

Democrats responded by pointing to comments from top McCain advisor Mark Salter, who said that McCain had decided to spend his time at home or at his campaign headquarters instead of visiting Capitol Hill during marathon negotiations over the bailout bill over the weekend because “he’s calling members on both sides, talking to people in the administration, helping out as he can. …He can effectively do what he needs to do by phone,” said Salter."

"You can't phone something like this in" vs. "He can effectively do what he needs to do by phone." Hmmm.; 9/29/08, 6:51 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: The sky is not falling. Stop leaping to hand the market over to the government.; 9/29/08, 6:52 PM
Zachary Sire said...: Screw you guys, I'm goin home.; 9/29/08, 6:52 PM
Methadras said...: dbp said...

Does anybody know if Obama was for the bill or against it?

Whether the bill was good or bad, at least we know where McCain stood on it.

My understanding is, is that Mr. Barely would have penned his name to anything put in front of him.; 9/29/08, 6:54 PM
Joe said...: Why is McCain blaming Obama for the failure of a bill that even he [McCain] didn't openly support? This is silly. Both candidates have acted like complete idiots in all of this. Where's their leadership? Why hasn't either candidate made a series of firm proposals?

I think it's because neither wants to be blamed when any rescue plan goes south with all sorts of unintended consequences. They both want to point the finger of blame at "those bastards." Fine politics, but shitty leadership.; 9/29/08, 6:54 PM
Anonymous said...: UWS guy said...
Ask titus....

6:51 PM

No, you were the one that brought it up. Man up and answer.; 9/29/08, 6:54 PM
Baron Zemo said...: Any woman would love to meet someone who accused a woman of faking her pregnancy to protect her daughter simply for political gain. Or who would scorn a mother for not aborting her baby when she found out it was handicapped. It is the way to any woman's heart.

I believe Cindy Sheehan is available.; 9/29/08, 6:54 PM
Lorelei Leigh said...: The McCain? Heh.

I think everyone looks pretty bad here. Pelosi's speech was stupid, but it's just as stupid for Republicans to imply that they were willing to vote for the bill until Pelosi's speech. That's so juvenile.

Oh, wait, I forgot I was talking about Congress for a moment. Nevermind.

I admit to not knowing very much about this financial stuff, but I'm disturbed by the notion that we have to do "something." People are saying there were problems with the bill, maybe even major problems, but they voted for it anyway under the theory that something is better than nothing. Maybe that's true here, I don't know. But in and of itself, I think it's a pretty silly reason for a government to do anything.

Of course, while I've been sitting here reading and typing, I've seen two ads for WaMu checking, which seems crazy to be because they failed and were gobbled up by Chase. Just goes to show what I know.; 9/29/08, 6:55 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Freeman Hunt is cute, too bad she somewhat to the right of Atilla the Hun.

No doubt Attila the Hun was all about free markets.; 9/29/08, 6:55 PM
UWS guy said...: ernicu73:

I'm not sure what you're getting at...; 9/29/08, 6:56 PM
vbspurs said...: Does anybody know if Obama was for the bill or against it?

From the reports I read this morning, he was mildly in favour of it (or at least hadn't expressed opposition). BTW, I don't understand this angle. See if someone can clarify this for me.

If Americans don't want Socialism in terms of further nationalisation of banks and oppose this "bailout", why would they trending towards electing Senator Obama as President? He is hard left economically.

Cheers,
Victoria; 9/29/08, 6:57 PM
MadisonMan said...: It seems like this bill was for the whole $700bn bail out. Whatever happened to the incremental bill (that to my little mind seemed more sensible).

Of course, I'm not an economist.

An what happened in that other thread!? I'm gone for a couple hours and 400+ comments!

My idea to vote out all of 'em is still sound.; 9/29/08, 6:58 PM
Methadras said...: Freeman Hunt said...

The sky is not falling. Stop leaping to hand the market over to the government.

For over 2 years the MSM was drumbeating the downturn of the economy over and over again. Several Democrat candidates where bemoaning the economy as being the worst since Herbert Hoover. Now the fever pitch towards the language of the economy is that is now at 'crisis' levels. Shocking. Self-fulfilling prophecies or just wishful thinking. You be the judge.; 9/29/08, 6:58 PM
Anonymous said...: You said:

uws guy said...

[...]
Christopher Hitchens was right when he said gays who want marriage miss the point of being gay.

6:46 PM

So, I want to know what that point is. Do I need to draw a diagram for this question?; 9/29/08, 6:58 PM
Trooper York said...: Tom Clancy wrote a book, I think it was the Sum of All Red Octobers where a plane was flown by terrorist into the capital and killed almost everyone in Congress. Long before 911.

Now nobody wants that, but I think we should get rid of every sitting Congressman and just put normal everyday Americans in their place. We might lose some good people from both sides of the aisle but I bet we would be a lot better off.; 9/29/08, 7:01 PM
Anonymous said...: vbspurs said...
Does anybody know if Obama was for the bill or against it?

From the reports I read this morning, he was mildly in favour of it (or at least hadn't expressed opposition). BTW, I don't understand this angle. See if someone can clarify this for me.

If Americans don't want Socialism in terms of further nationalisation of banks and oppose this "bailout", why would they trending towards electing Senator Obama as President? He is hard left economically.

Cheers,
Victoria

6:57 PM

I believe because the media keep painting him as the one who understands...whatever that means. Somehow people have bought that. Or perhaps, they are lying yet again to the pollsters, or the pollsters are lying to themselves.; 9/29/08, 7:02 PM
UWS guy said...: You could read Christopher Hitchens on the matter. Honestly if I have to explain it then it's not funny anymore.

I was being humorous and amorous (humamourous...)

I like the gays and will be voting against proposition 8 (to strip them of marriage rights) here in California Nov. 4th.

So now that my joke isn't (never was?) funny, I will say that the benefit of being gay is your potential partner is as perennially as horny as you are and is always willing.; 9/29/08, 7:03 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Self-fulfilling prophecies or just wishful thinking.

Exactly. "Oh, it's the Great Depression all over again! Really, truly, it is. So sorry we messed up. Now, the only way to solve it is to give us a whole lot of money and a whole lot more power. Now don't go being skeptical because you'd better hand it over or you'll all go broke and people will die in the streets. Just sign right here..."; 9/29/08, 7:03 PM
Palladian said...: "If Americans don't want Socialism in terms of further nationalisation of banks and oppose this "bailout", why would they trending towards electing Senator Obama as President? He is hard left economically."

Victoria! Haven't you heard?! Obama will bring Hope™ and through Hope™ we will arrive at Change™, which is something that people like! Stop talking about stupid boring things like economics! People don't want economic talk, they want Change They Can Believe In™! And they're going to get it, by God. Believe it!; 9/29/08, 7:03 PM
Anonymous said...: UWS, good save.; 9/29/08, 7:04 PM
UWS guy said...: erniecu73: are you trying to cockblock me? 'Cause now I just seem lecherous.; 9/29/08, 7:04 PM
Palladian said...: "So now that my joke isn't (never was?) funny, I will say that the benefit of being gay is your potential partner is as perennially as horny as you are and is always willing."

Oh yeah?! Try telling that to Zachary Paul Sire for me, will you? Because I ain't getting nothing!; 9/29/08, 7:05 PM
vbspurs said...: Ernie wrote:

I believe because the media keep painting him as the one who understands...whatever that means. Somehow people have bought that. Or perhaps, they are lying yet again to the pollsters, or the pollsters are lying to themselves.

I don't believe the pollsters at all -- even when McCain was leading, I was wary.

Clearly, the US electorate has misunderstood the "bailout", in large part because the election has made them try to tailor their arguments to which candidate they favoured or because they were populist.

(Yet another reason why MSM has jumped the shark)

They first believe that Wall Street "fat cats" are being bailed out. They do not understand that they are the ones who are being rescued, first and foremost.

Heh, Cheryl Casone of Fox News just started saying this as I type.

Cheers,
Victoria; 9/29/08, 7:06 PM
Palladian said...: Maybe I should give up on Zachary and start hitting on Ernie... He's both closer to me politically and Cuban, two big points in my book.; 9/29/08, 7:07 PM
Unknown said...: Gosh I’m so tired of divisive exchange, [yeah right]
And I got one or two things to say about change,
Like the change we must change
To the change we hold dear
I really like change
Have I made myself clear?

(link); 9/29/08, 7:07 PM
UWS guy said...: FreemanHunt: Go read Megan McCardle's blog or someone else who isn't a partisan economist. When you take the advice of some Ayn Randian think tank on this matter you're playing with fire.

She makes a compelling argument (as do all of the economists she knows) that this is no joke and a real crisis.

The president of the United States went on tv last week and called this a crisis...a republican president.; 9/29/08, 7:08 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Video of democrats blaming regulators and Barney Frank saying there was nothing wrong.

http://tinyurl.com/3nkrp7; 9/29/08, 7:08 PM
Anonymous said...: uws guy said...
erniecu73: are you trying to cockblock me? 'Cause now I just seem lecherous.

7:04 PM

Nah, just bugger you.; 9/29/08, 7:08 PM
UWS guy said...: oh, and one more thing.

/wink; 9/29/08, 7:09 PM
Simon said...: Joseph Hovsep said...
"The Democrats could have passed a plan that was only supported by Democrats."

No, Joseph, they couldn't! Where are the votes going to come from? Do you think Stephanie Herseth, for example, voted against this because it wasn't liberal enough?! Look at the roll call! Look at the names of the Democrats who voted against this!

The Democrats do not have the votes. It was already obvious that they didn't have the vots, because if they'd had the votes they wouldn't have sought Republican support - they had nothing to gain from it. And now we can see the vote tally, it is no longer even debatable. They didn't have the votes.

Get this through your heads, Democrats - they didn't have the votes before, they don't have the votes now, and assuming that no one caves or changes their position, there is nothing I can imagine that they can do to get the votes. The opposition to this plan is just too deep, too widespread and too heterodox - any measure you could take to buy a vote from one group of the dissenters will lose you the votes from another.

If you think that some action needs to be taken, you need to get past the realty that this proposal is dead. Stop trying to resusciate the ourpse and give us plan B. Of course, if you don't think anything needs to be done, no rush.; 9/29/08, 7:09 PM
The Drill SGT said...: OK,

let's do quick rundown on th politics of this:

1. McCain wants a deal because a: he puts the country first, b: he made a big deal, c: Obama didn't do squat
2. Obama a: likes blaming Bush for deregulation even when it was the dems who voted to keep regulation low on the GSE's, and b: enjoys seeing McCain swing in the wind. He can win with a failure here.
3. Nancy doesn't think this is a crisis yet, or doesn't want a bill signed yet, or can't count votes, or likes to see Bush pilloried in public
4. The GOP House didn't like the bill, but some were willing to vote for it, till Nancy decided it wasn't a bi-partisan event and decided to blame them for everything.
5. Bush will ultimately sign anything that crosses his desk, since he has no choice having declared a crisis
6. Nancy has a chance now to go back and write a punitive bill that puts everything back in, bilions for ACORN, trillions for scofflaws, etc, she won't be able to resist, but it will lose all GOP and enough Dems to fail.
7. We'll be back at this bill by Friday after the market loses 3 trillion in value.; 9/29/08, 7:09 PM
UWS guy said...: er...that was for FreemanHunt.; 9/29/08, 7:10 PM
Palladian said...: "They first believe that Wall Street "fat cats" are being bailed out."

I think Capitalists should be forced to wear an identifying uniform.; 9/29/08, 7:10 PM
Zachary Sire said...: Obama will bring Hope™ and through Hope™ we will arrive at Change™..etc.etc.

This sarcastic line of attack is so 6 months ago...what's next, are you going to call him "The One"?; 9/29/08, 7:10 PM
Unknown said...: Harry Reid: "With the stock market recording its largest point drop ever in the aftermath of this vote, it has never been more clear how important it is to put politics aside and come together to stabilize our economy for all Americans," Reid said. "I hope House Republicans will reconsider their vote and decide to put country first."

What an idiot. Hey, so does that mean your 90-some-odd House Democrats didn't put country first either?; 9/29/08, 7:10 PM
Simon said...: UWS guy said...
"The president of the United States went on tv last week and called this a crisis...a republican president."

Since when did the Democratic party place any stock at all in what this President says?; 9/29/08, 7:10 PM
Anonymous said...: Victoria, yes, that is the general feeling among most people I know. I had to put on my headphones today to avoid the "animated discussions" about it.; 9/29/08, 7:10 PM
vbspurs said...: Victoria! Haven't you heard?! Obama will bring Hope™ and through Hope™ we will arrive at Change™, which is something that people like! Stop talking about stupid boring things like economics!

I wish I could strike a partisan note here, like "well they deserve to get screwed" but I love America too much for this.

It's still time to take back the narrative.

Obama is a socialist, but one who will not be able to implement any of his programmes, or raise taxes, because our economy will be down the crapper for the next 2-4 years at least.

So what are people going to vote for if not for his programmes?

Cheers,
Victoria; 9/29/08, 7:11 PM
Trooper York said...: Tony Montana: Hey, how'd you like that? Huh? You fuckin' maricón! Hey!
(Scarface,1983); 9/29/08, 7:11 PM
vbspurs said...: No way, Palladian! Ernie is all mine.; 9/29/08, 7:12 PM
Anonymous said...: zachary paul sire said...
Obama will bring Hope™ and through Hope™ we will arrive at Change™..etc.etc.

This sarcastic line of attack is so 6 months ago...what's next, are you going to call him "The One"?

7:10 PM

Nah, we'll let Oprah do that.

I prefer The Messiah (PBUH); 9/29/08, 7:13 PM
vbspurs said...: JOHN FRIKKIN KERRY will follow Karl Rove on Bill O'Reilly in a few minutes.

This is one of the signs of End Times, no?; 9/29/08, 7:15 PM
Unknown said...: Democratic leadership wanted the bailout to fail.

Soren Dayton marshals the evidence.; 9/29/08, 7:15 PM
Anonymous said...: I am all yours, my dearest Victoria!; 9/29/08, 7:15 PM
Palladian said...: "This sarcastic line of attack is so 6 months ago..."

From the smell of it, so are your socks. Perhaps you missed my announcement today. I support The One! I am ready for Hope™. Yes, Senator Obama, We Are Ready To Believe Again!; 9/29/08, 7:16 PM
Anonymous said...: Why are they asking Kerry about this? Inside view into the vote this afternoon?? It happened in the House!; 9/29/08, 7:17 PM
Trooper York said...: Manny: ¡Ay, Dios mío! ¡Mira eso! Look at that one. That one right there in the pink. She's beautiful, man. Look at those titties.
Tony Montana: Look at that punk with her. What's he got that I don't have?
Manny: [smiling] Well, he's very handsome, for one thing, you know?
[chuckles]
Manny: I mean, look at the way he dresses, man. Come on. That's style. Flash, pizzazz. And a little coke money doesn't hurt nobody.
Tony Montana: [staring his hands] ¡Coño! Look at this. Fuckin' onions. They oughta be pickin' gold from the street. ¡Ay, cabrón!

(Scarface, 1983); 9/29/08, 7:17 PM
vbspurs said...: 6. Nancy has a chance now to go back and write a punitive bill that puts everything back in, bilions for ACORN, trillions for scofflaws, etc, she won't be able to resist, but it will lose all GOP and enough Dems to fail.
7. We'll be back at this bill by Friday after the market loses 3 trillion in value.

It won't go through. Unfortunately, the President of the United States will have to do something by Executive Order soon.

And then our little partisans everywhere (including me) will be able to fingerpoint and talk ad nauseum about this.; 9/29/08, 7:17 PM
Palladian said...: "I am all yours, my dearest Victoria!"

Huh, I though you were a salami-smoker (as Cedarford likes to say) like me? Or a chorizo smoker, if you will...; 9/29/08, 7:18 PM
Ruth Anne Adams said...: This is one of the signs of End Times, no?

I count about two horsemen of the Apocalypse right there.; 9/29/08, 7:18 PM
vbspurs said...: Famous Hot Doggery!; 9/29/08, 7:19 PM
Anonymous said...: OMG! Obama has been nominated by a giant papaya*! And they say he didn't have the women's vote...

*maybe Victoria will get this cubanism; 9/29/08, 7:19 PM
Trooper York said...: Tony Montana: You a communist? Huh? How'd you like it, man? They tell you all the time what to do, what to think, what to feel. Do you wanna be like a sheep? Like all those other people? Baah! Baah!
Immigration Officer #3: I don't have to listen to this bullshit!
Tony Montana: You wanna work eight, ten fucking hours? You own nothing, you got nothing! Do you want a chivato on every corner looking after you? Watching everything you do? Everything you say, man? Do you know I eat octopus three times a day? I got fucking octopus coming out of my fucking ears. I got the fuckin' Russian shoes my feet's comin' through. How you like that? What, you want me to stay there and do nothing? Hey, I'm no fuckin' criminal, man. I'm no puta or thief. I'm Tony Montana, a political prisoner from Cuba. And I want my fuckin' human rights, now!
[slams desk]
Tony Montana: Just like the President Jimmy Carter says. Okay?
Immigration Officer #1: Carter should see this human right. He's really good. What do you say, Harry?
Immigration Officer #3: I don't believe a word of this shit! They all sound the same to me. That son of a bitch Castro is shittin' all over us. Send this bastard to Freedom Town. Let them take a look at him. Get him outta here.
Tony Montana: You know somethin'? You can send me anywhere. Here, there, this, that; it don't matter. There's nothing you can do to me that Castro has not done.
Immigration Officer #3: Get him outta here!
(Scarface, 1983); 9/29/08, 7:20 PM
vbspurs said...: Huh, I though you were a salami-smoker (as Cedarford likes to say) like me? Or a chorizo smoker, if you will...

Like that would ever stop a rogue like you, Palladian!

But Ernie, actually, I have previous commitments on Althouse. I think I have about 4-5 guys who asked for my bloghand in marriage.

So you know, we'll talk. ;); 9/29/08, 7:20 PM
Anonymous said...: palladian said...
"I am all yours, my dearest Victoria!"

Huh, I though you were a salami-smoker (as Cedarford likes to say) like me? Or a chorizo smoker, if you will...

7:18 PM

I am, but a British accent will make me change my diet any day!; 9/29/08, 7:20 PM
Palladian said...: "No way, Palladian! Ernie is all mine."

You bitch! In your dreams!; 9/29/08, 7:20 PM
Unknown said...: I don't think a unilateral bill will go through, either. There is too much opposition to this bill on both sides, and what is more they are going on record about it as we speak. It'll be real hard to justify voting for one later that is basically just a pork-laden version of what's there now.; 9/29/08, 7:20 PM
Trooper York said...: Alejandro Sosa: I told you a long time ago, you fucking little monkey, not to FUCK ME!
(Scarface, 1983); 9/29/08, 7:21 PM
Palladian said...: "I am, but a British accent will make me change my diet any day!"

I have a killer British accent. And I smoke a mean chorizo.; 9/29/08, 7:21 PM
vbspurs said...: Guys, for those of you who don't get it:

Papaya looks like a brunette woman's cootch.

So for Cubans saying it's considered extremely coarse to say "papaya" for that fruit.

They use "fruta bomba" instead.

Which ironically sounds sexy to me!; 9/29/08, 7:22 PM
Anonymous said...: nominated = endorsed

I need food.; 9/29/08, 7:22 PM
mrs whatsit said...: The John Lynch, he made me laugh out loud.

But nothing else about this string is amusing. If only it were about shoes. I cannot believe that every political leader in this country, including both candidates, is taken up with the blame game, and that nobody -- NOBODY -- is assuming any kind of nonpartisan leadership role to come up with a solution. (Yes, I'm naive.) The Republicans are a bunch of babies, blaming that meanie Nancy Pelosi for making them feel too bad to vote for the bailout. The Democrats are a bunch of blind fools who think Barney Frank is a brilliant leader and can't see their own complicity in forcing the country into this mess. And the presidential candidates are showing the leadership skills of a couple of cowpies. A pox on all their houses.; 9/29/08, 7:22 PM
vbspurs said...: I count about two horsemen of the Apocalypse right there.

And here's Johnny...he'll mention Swiftboating in 3-2-1.; 9/29/08, 7:23 PM
Palladian said...: "Papaya looks like a brunette woman's cootch."

Wow, if that's what a woman's cootch looks like, I'm glad I stick to chorizo.; 9/29/08, 7:23 PM
The Drill SGT said...: Is that hat they mean by playing "hide the salami?" I thought that was a hetro game; 9/29/08, 7:26 PM
vbspurs said...: And the presidential candidates are showing the leadership skills of a couple of cowpies. A pox on all their houses.

Yes, as I wrote in the WaPo comments section, there is a distinct lack of leadership from EVERYONE'S side here.

But at least McCain was willing to go and do something about it. Obama had to be dragged to Washington, and then just tried to take over Friday's meeting.

When there was a Bill cobbled together, Obama didn't even come out in favour of it. He is a total Beta male.

OMG, Kerry just mentioned the secret word -- he said that if this Bill passed they would be rescuing the economy and saving Bush.

Did I hear that?? I need confirmation. This is too stupidly partisan for words, if I heard right.; 9/29/08, 7:26 PM
Anonymous said...: UWS guy said...Freeman Hunt is cute, too bad she somewhat to the right of Atilla the Hun.

That makes a woman even cuter.

UWS guy said......I'm also fairly certain, given her politics that Vsuprs is 82 years old so she's right out of the running also...

Plus she's English.

vbspurs said...I don't know just which Hispanics voted no..

FINAL VOTE RESULTS FOR ROLL CALL 674; 9/29/08, 7:26 PM
Anonymous said...: Speaking of chorizo, I need to have some dinner. I'll be back!

Victoria, we'll talk.

palladian, we'll talk; 9/29/08, 7:27 PM
John Stodder said...: Don't the Democrats have a solid majority in the Congress? Would there even be enough votes to scuttle the bailout if each and every Republican had voted against it? I don't get it.

Careful what you wish for.; 9/29/08, 7:27 PM
Palladian said...: "Is that what they mean by playing "hide the salami?" I thought that was a hetro game"

Because of its long, slender shape, there is more than one place to hide a salami.; 9/29/08, 7:28 PM
vbspurs said...: Victoria, we'll talk.

palladian, we'll talk

Ay! You can be gay. You can be straight. But bisexuals are just greedy.

;)

Buen provecho, Ernie. I'm off too. Ciao Palladian, guys!

Cheers,
Victoria; 9/29/08, 7:29 PM
Palladian said...: "Victoria, we'll talk.

palladian, we'll talk"

I hope your talk with me is a lot steamier than your talk with the daughter of Albion!; 9/29/08, 7:29 PM
Cedarford said...: I apologize to Palladian for referring to him as a salami-smoker.

I didn't know he favored chorizos.; 9/29/08, 7:30 PM
Matt said...: If the GOP wanted this bill they would not hold it up because Pelosi said something mean to them. Last Thursday it was pretty clear that the House Republicans did not want this bill in its present form. [Many don't want it]. So to come out and blame Pelosi is just a political stunt.; 9/29/08, 7:31 PM
The Exalted said...: when citigroup disappears next week we'll see how quickly the crisis is "burning out."

some of you may have noticed wachovia bit it today? hello?

and even for althousers, blaming the dems for 2/3 of gops voting against the GOP PRESIDENT'S BILL...priceless stupidity; 9/29/08, 7:31 PM
Simon said...: Palladian said...
"I hope your talk with me is a lot steamier than your talk with the daughter of Albion!"

He has to compensate for British reserve. Can't come on like a steam train, you know. Not unless you know they like it, that is.; 9/29/08, 7:32 PM
The Drill SGT said...: jdeeripper said...
UWS guy said...Freeman Hunt is cute, too bad she somewhat to the right of Atilla the Hun.

That makes a woman even cuter.

Guns we can deal with, it's long sharp knives and Bobbittses that send shivers down our legses; 9/29/08, 7:34 PM
mrs whatsit said...: Victoria, I agree that at least McCain had the courage to take a position and to do something about it. Not Obama -- true to form, he took no position or action that could have pinned him down and didn't even go to Washington (to do his job!) until he was embarrassed into it. But then they both left with no deal in place, and now McCain's out there attacking Obama instead of working on a way to put something together. Yuck.; 9/29/08, 7:36 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: UWS Guy, Megan McArdle isn't sure that we need a bailout and isn't sure that it will help. She says that no one knows what will happen, but she's willing to gamble on the bailout because she thinks it might work.

I'm not. And if anyone wanted to sway me to support gambling on it, they'd have to strip out the ridiculous amount of power this bill cedes to the Fed.; 9/29/08, 7:36 PM
The Drill SGT said...: vbspurs said...
But Ernie, actually, I have previous commitments on Althouse. I think I have about 4-5 guys who asked for my bloghand in marriage.

I didn't realize there was a waiting list as long as Redskin Season Tickets. Add my name to the list dear, I hope to live that long :); 9/29/08, 7:37 PM
Warren Rutledge said...: Just a thought for Madam Speaker. When you want bi-partisan support, you probably shouldn't repeatedly attack the guys whose support you want (calling them unpatriotic for not attending meetings you didn't invite them to, and then blaming them for the problem you're supposedly trying solve). If they're looking for a reason to bolt, don't give them one. If she really wanted to do the right thing for the country, she could have held her tongue.

I would say she planned to sink the agreement for political reasons, but I honestly don't think she's anywhere near bright enough to think of that. Her room temperature IQ is strained as it is to figure out when she can get her next botox treatment. The most likely explanation is that she had some stray thoughts that floated through her head and touched on the part of her brain that controls speech, and out they came.; 9/29/08, 7:41 PM
Henry said...: Now you have House Democratic Leadership blaming the Republican Caucus.

House Republican Leadership blames Pelosi.

House Democrat Rank and File joins in, relieved to have someone to blame for killing a bill they didn't want to vote for.

McCain blames Obama.

Obama may be blaming McCain or not, but it doesn't matter because McCain looks like a fool regardless.

The Whitehouse is very sad.

And it looks like a victory for Democracy to me. Kind of messy, isn't it?

The House leadership is going to be in trouble this Winter.; 9/29/08, 7:44 PM
Anonymous said...: "Hey! You pigs wanna give us a push?" -- Cheech, Chong, & Pelosi; 9/29/08, 7:50 PM
Simon said...: vbspurs said...
"Obama is a socialist, but one who will not be able to implement any of his programmes, or raise taxes, because our economy will be down the crapper for the next 2-4 years at least."

Looking at the debate last friday, I don't think Obama has a firm enough grip on reality to abandon his universal health care plan even if we really do go into economic meltdown. He implied that the things he thinks are really important can be paid for with money pucked from thin air.; 9/29/08, 7:53 PM
Alex said...: Dingy Harry is an idiot. The same swing voters who were calling in to say NO to the deal he accuses of being un-American? Sorry but nobody is buying what Dingy Harry is selling.; 9/29/08, 7:55 PM
Alex said...: simon - it's really weird. How can the people be so dead set against this $700B bailout, but are giving Obama a 10 point lead? Weird.

Of course the lib spin is that the perception is this is a Wall St bailout, and that when it will come to national health care, the American people will be for it 60/40 in 2009.; 9/29/08, 7:56 PM
garage mahal said...: At least teh Boner didn't cry for the cameras this time.

"I do believe in spooks. I do believe in spooks. I do! I do! I do! I do believe in spooks. I do believe in spooks. I do! I do! I do! I do!"; 9/29/08, 7:57 PM
Alex said...: henry - nobody said that democracy wasn't a messy affair. The only ones complaining are those who want efficient dictatorships.; 9/29/08, 7:57 PM
kentuckyliz said...: If Obama can't create the USSA in his first term, that just means an increased likelihood of re-election.; 9/29/08, 7:59 PM
George M. Spencer said...: All of these posts are the big public vomit.

Obama may well be playing it smart....trying to stay as far away from the train wreck as possible. Who knows what toxic explosions may yet happen. Since neither he nor McCain can lead (because they ain't got no power), just stand back and let it all blow up. Take cover.

Saw a piece this weekend that said that Hoover begged FDR to join with him in declaring a "bank holiday." FDR refused, then turned around and did it on his own.

Lincoln also did nothing, said nothing between the time he was elected and was inaugurated.

We have 120 days until Jan. 20.

No matter who wins, a lot of people have lost their reputations...Paulson, Pelosi, Frank, Dodd....; 9/29/08, 8:00 PM
Methadras said...: Trooper York said...

Tom Clancy wrote a book, I think it was the Sum of All Red Octobers where a plane was flown by terrorist into the capital and killed almost everyone in Congress. Long before 911.

Now nobody wants that, but I think we should get rid of every sitting Congressman and just put normal everyday Americans in their place. We might lose some good people from both sides of the aisle but I bet we would be a lot better off.

Why, you can't do that. That's anti-American. Why, we can't have normal, average, everyday citizens representing normal, average, every day citizens. Just think of what will happen? The current power structure will destabilize, we can't have that. What about our entitlements of privilege to stand above others beneath us. That is a characteristic of being a representative or a senator. How dare you suggest such a thing. Why, government would collapse under the onslaught of common sense. No, it's totally undoable. Perish the thought. I rebuke you!!! I rebuke your ideas!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

I'm melting!!! I'm melting!!!; 9/29/08, 8:01 PM
AlphaLiberal said...: In the other thread, someone posted a Hot Air link earlier that said the comments made by Pelosi objected to by House Rs were from a press conference.

The video of the Republican press conference blaming Pelosi shows Boehner and others clearly blaming Pelosi for her statements on the floor.

So the Hot Air video posted earlier is irrelevant. That was not on the floor.

At the links given you can see both videos and judge for yourself the merits of the latest fake Republican outrage.

I think they're playing games with our financial future and put themselves and their party before country. McCain included.; 9/29/08, 8:03 PM
blake said...: I think Capitalists should be forced to wear an identifying uniform.

Wait, where's the monocle.

They're not going to go for it without the monocle.; 9/29/08, 8:05 PM
former law student said...: even when it was the dems who voted to keep regulation low on the GSE's

Hey, if the Republicans couldn't get GSE regulation out of committee when they controlled the Senate, don't complain about Dems not bailing Bush out now.; 9/29/08, 8:05 PM
Methadras said...: UWS guy said...

Freeman Hunt is cute, too bad she somewhat to the right of Atilla the Hun.

My kind of gal. Someone who could look at you with those come hither eyes and so much as gut you if you even think about what those come hither eyes entail. Shudder. Drool.; 9/29/08, 8:06 PM
former law student said...: Hey you internet horn dogs: FH is married as far as I know.

Step away from the computer, and try to charm some real life women.; 9/29/08, 8:08 PM
Methadras said...: UWS guy said...

The president of the United States went on tv last week and called this a crisis...a republican president.

Uh, what was he going to call it if he had to go on television to pitch the deal? A mild downturn? How about a little economic speed bump? Maybe a financial rail skip or two perhaps? Do you not even understand what you are saying? I voted for Bush twice because I knew what I was going to get. The first time (pre-911) was a vote for mediocrity that was going to move us past Clintonian obfuscation and embarrassment. While not perfect, a better vote than Gore only in the sense that he wanted hope and change, but to have it shackled in a lock box. Gore was and is a socialist/environmental nut and he proves it daily. I made the right choice. The second time was a repudiation of John Kerry's effeteness in the face of real issue like the war and his advancement of a rubber stamp presidency because that is what I saw in Kerry. A reckless 60's opportunistic boomer buffoon who cared only about his bottom line and his shameless self promotion of his idiotic economic ideas.

The major failure I see in Bush is the cost that his Doctrine of Compassionate Conservatism has cost me and the rest of the American Public. People can state all day long that he tried to stop Fanny and Freddie from advancing their unveiled attempts at trying to become their own markets that hamstrung the heavy financial sectors, but in the end politics is about perception.

I'm not going to fight his battles for him. He's a big boy and he can do it himself, but I'll be damned if I'm going to let your characterization or his of using the word 'crisis' to describe the state of the economy as the actual prognosis that the economy is actually in. It isn't and a lot of people know it. This is a blatant power grab and a legacy builder. It failed.; 9/29/08, 8:20 PM
Methadras said...: former law student said...

Hey you internet horn dogs: FH is married as far as I know.

Step away from the computer, and try to charm some real life women.

Aye, oh. Hold on their little doggie. I'm just describing what I like in a woman. I just happened to have used FH as a possible example, not as the example. I know plenty of women that exemplify my characterization. I should know. I'm married to one and I'm the luckiest man on earth for it too. She keeps me honest.; 9/29/08, 8:22 PM
Anonymous said...: Happiness is overrated. Look at all those saps in their cubicles, Jane. They are miserably married. They have homes they can't afford, car payments, private school tuition for their children, day care costs, long commutes, credit card payments they can't make. Yet they pretend to the world that they are happy; stupidly, blissfully happy.

Happiness is a sucker bet. It makes normal people believe their hearts are good; their intentions pure; better days are just around the corner. Happiness objectifies misery, in a perverse Andrew Sullivan sort of way.

Now misery, Jane, that takes real courage. Not everyone can have misery; it takes effort. Misery makes you rip open your heart and expose your pain for the world to see. Misery requires that your pain pour out your heart, staining everything in its path. Misery is the festering wound that you wish never heals.

Heroes are miserable. They revel in their misery. Misery makes you re-examine the world and see it for what it is: a path out of the gloom of perpetual happiness.

Be heroic, Jane. Wear your misery like a Medal of Honor, like a holy scapular. Be strong, be apart form the sappy happiness of the world and the fools that regard happiness as an entitlement.

We who are miserable are the leaders, the lone wolves. We are the civilization apart.

Excerpted from my forthcoming book
How To Give Your Team Meaningful Annual Reviews

Michael_H; 9/29/08, 8:31 PM
Henry said...: Alpha wonders what was wrong with Pelosi's statement on the floor.

The answer is pretty simple.

Pelosi's lede:

Madam Speaker, when was the last time someone asked you for $700 billion? It is a number that is staggering, but tells us only the costs of the Bush Administration's failed economic policies -- policies built on budgetary recklessness, on an anything goes mentality, with no regulation, no supervision, and no discipline in the system.

Simon's take at 5:55 summed up the political damage of this poison, but there are larger implications.

Pelosi ignores the proximate cause of the debacle -- a pair of Federally-overseen lending institutions that used their friends in Congress to co-opt or beat-off regulators -- to focus on extraordinarily vague charges of lax regulation.

Many Republicans were hesitant to support the bailout plan specifically because it cut against their core principles -- principles that many Americans agree with -- those of small government and free markets. Yes, I know the idea of small government under the Bush administration is a joke, but it is still an ideal for many who vote Republican.

It is unclear to me whether the votes to pass the bill every existed.

But assuming they were there, some of those votes had to come from individuals who were voting against principle in the belief that this was a unique event that required a unique response.

Instead Pelosi turned it into a platform to agitate for future legislation.

Republicans know that the next president will likely be Barack Obama. They know that they will not take back the House.

They also know that this bill is just one of many that will be sponsored in Congress to reregulate the economy.

When Pelosi voiced her counter-revolution scenario, she pushed far beyond the "crisis" justification and declared justification for other interventions.

This made it impossible for Reagan Republicans to go along. A vote against principle now would compromise their efforts in the future. Pelosi told them they were being set up and they got the message.

Words have meaning, remember?; 9/29/08, 8:38 PM
AlphaLiberal said...: Responding to Ann's initial post, later in the day McCain said:

"Now is not the time to fix the blame." McCain said. "It's time to fix the problem."

Last week we had news McCain was holed up in his Arlington home, phone calling Republicans. Yes, "phoning it in."

Man, that's some crude projection.
----------------------------
And, this news on the results of Bush/McCain economics:
DOW January 19, 2001: 10,587.59
DOW September 29, 2008: 10,365.45

NASDAQ Jan 19, 2001 = 2770.38
NASDAQ September 29, 2008 = 1983.73

CPI, January 19, 2001: 175
CPI, September 29, 2008: 219

Dollar exchange with Euro, January 19, 2001: 1.068
Dollar exchange with Euro, September 29, 2008: .695; 9/29/08, 8:39 PM
Unknown said...: In the other thread, someone posted a Hot Air link earlier that said the comments made by Pelosi objected to by House Rs were from a press conference.

That was me, and no, I was not intentionally claiming that was specifically the comments being objected to in the press conference. I certainly agree that the comments made by Republican house members after the vote were referring specifically to her floor speech. But at the time of that previous post I was making the claim that Pelosi and the rest of the Democrat leadership were partisan assholes all along and that drove away Republican votes. Not just her public statements, mind you, but their sabotage of the meeting with the President, the insistence on packing the negotiating tables, and so forth. Her comments on the house floor were simply the last straw.

Frankly, as an astute commenter on Volokh pointed out, it probably drove away Democratic votes as well. Because true leaders responding to true emergencies don't demagogue until after the bills are passed. So Democrats listening to her tirade could have easily inferred that the Speaker didn't consider it as critical a bill as she claimed.

And since the evidence points either to complete incompetence or outright sabotage on Pelosi's part, I don't blame those 95 Democrats for joining the Republican party in supporting the bill.

And since Harry Reid seems to think that putting country first requires voting for this bill, what does that say about those 95 members of his own party?; 9/29/08, 8:41 PM
Unknown said...: Why wasn't Clyburn whipping the vote yesterday? Wouldn't it have been a good idea for them to see if they had the votes?; 9/29/08, 8:49 PM
Roberto said...: Who here would vote for a person, to fill a position that is one heartbeat from being President, that believes the following:

Soon after Sarah Palin was elected mayor of the foothill town of Wasilla, Alaska, she startled a local music teacher by insisting in casual conversation that men and dinosaurs coexisted on an Earth created 6,000 years ago -- about 65 million years after scientists say most dinosaurs became extinct.

After conducting a college band and watching Palin deliver a commencement address to a small group of home-schooled students in June 1997, Wasilla resident Philip Munger said, he asked the young mayor about her religious beliefs.

Palin told him that "dinosaurs and humans walked the Earth at the same time," Munger said.

When he asked her about prehistoric fossils and tracks dating back millions of years, Palin said "she had seen pictures of human footprints inside the tracks," recalled Munger.; 9/29/08, 8:54 PM
George M. Spencer said...: If you think our problems are bad, consider Somalia.

The weak central "government," if it can be called that, is fighting Islamist rebels who control much of the country and are aided by pirates. The "government" of Somalia (or at least the minister of fisheries of the semiautonomous state of Puntland) has called on the US Navy to attack and capture that pirate-held ship. Why? Because if its cargo of weapons reaches the Islamists, the "government" could collapse. It would collapse because a) the Ethiopian government has failed to send in all the troops it promised; and b) Somalia don't like Ethiopians because they're mostly Christian.

The ship is presently at sea between "Xarardheere and Hobyo, two notorious pirate dens."

You can't make this stuff up.

Photo essay here. It's the kind of war in which 10-year-olds get hired to throw grenades. The capital is the kind of place where the best homes are made of cardboard and melt in the rain.

Now what was it that Nancy Pelosi said?; 9/29/08, 8:55 PM
Unknown said...: Oh crap, Michael's back to troll status again.; 9/29/08, 8:56 PM
Roberto said...: McCain takes credit for bill before it loses

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) and his top aides took credit for building a winning bailout coalition – hours before the vote failed and stocks tanked.

The rush to claim he had engineered a victory now looks like a strategic blunder that will prolong the McCain’s campaign’s difficulty in finding a winning message on the economy.; 9/29/08, 8:56 PM
Elliott A said...: Isn't it ironic that Pelosi's theatrics about 700billion dollars turned out costing all of us 1 trillion today.; 9/29/08, 8:59 PM
Roberto said...: Who is voting for this?

Palin told him that "dinosaurs and humans walked the Earth at the same time," Munger said.

When he asked her about prehistoric fossils and tracks dating back millions of years, Palin said "she had seen pictures of human footprints inside the tracks," recalled Munger.; 9/29/08, 9:00 PM
Roberto said...: mcg: Are you votong for this?

Palin told him that "dinosaurs and humans walked the Earth at the same time," Munger said.

When he asked her about prehistoric fossils and tracks dating back millions of years, Palin said "she had seen pictures of human footprints inside the tracks," recalled Munger.; 9/29/08, 9:01 PM
Elliott A said...: Just a note...while the negotiators were working hard on Saturday, the entire Freddie Mac DC office was at Six Flags with the park all to themselves. Freddie kindly paid for the entire outing with our money. I'm surprised this hasn't gotten into the news yet. Those people in charge over there have the ultimate cajones; 9/29/08, 9:02 PM
AlphaLiberal said...: Henry:

A) The effort to pain Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as the underlying causes is absurd in the extreme. It's comfortable to conservative ideology, but just not factual or sensible. For one thing, a lot of investment firms and banks went under before them.

B) Pelosi had every right to state her views on the legislation. Newt Gingrich did all the time when he was Speaker!
--------------------

McG, 60% of House Dems voted for the bill. 33% of Rs. Pelosi delivered most of her caucus. Boehner did not. That's pretty straightforward math.

Henry Paulson admitted last week that the House Republicans were causing partisan trouble. Ed Rollins (the former Reagan guy) said Republicans were putting party over country and you can see that video here.

In the video I posted above of House Rs, Rs say that things were fine off the floor, but horrible on the floor. Now, you're contradicting them.

So now the Rs are roiling their blogs and putting out tales of horrendous partisan suffering. It's all spin after the fact.; 9/29/08, 9:03 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Dinosaur-human relations are not, to the best of my knowledge, part of the bailout debate and its partisanship, otherwise known as the subjects of this thread.; 9/29/08, 9:03 PM
Anonymous said...: Isn't it ironic that Pelosi's theatrics about 700billion dollars turned out costing all of us 1 trillion today.

Yes, and the Republicans' inability to deliver their votes cost me $17,000 of that.; 9/29/08, 9:04 PM
Anonymous said...: Oooh! A dinosaur ate my small cap fund!; 9/29/08, 9:05 PM
Roberto said...: Freeman, I hate to lock you into a variance on what you're locked in on, but I'll ask you the same question...because considering that this is who will be dealing with the bailout:

Will you vote for someone who believes this???

Palin told him that "dinosaurs and humans walked the Earth at the same time," Munger said.

When he asked her about prehistoric fossils and tracks dating back millions of years, Palin said "she had seen pictures of human footprints inside the tracks," recalled Munger.; 9/29/08, 9:07 PM
Anonymous said...: My wife tells me she moved her 401K, IRA's, and her stock portfolio to all cash last week.

Damn, I hate when that happens.; 9/29/08, 9:07 PM
Roberto said...: theo, we all know you're a genius so i'll ask you the same question: do you trust this person to be v.p.??

Palin told him that "dinosaurs and humans walked the Earth at the same time," Munger said.

When he asked her about prehistoric fossils and tracks dating back millions of years, Palin said "she had seen pictures of human footprints inside the tracks," recalled Munger.; 9/29/08, 9:08 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: Will you vote for someone who believes this???

Over someone who believe socialism works, a belief with actual bearing on the office? Yes. (If the dinosaur/humans/Palin thing is even true.)

In other news, I am going to clone a dinosaur and train him to nip you in the ear everytime you make repeated, off-topic comments.; 9/29/08, 9:09 PM
Roberto said...: You're voting for this?????

Palin: "...dinosaurs and humans walked the Earth at the same time"...she had seen pictures of human footprints inside the tracks."; 9/29/08, 9:10 PM
Palladian said...: "Dinosaur-human relations are not, to the best of my knowledge, part of the bailout debate and its partisanship, otherwise known as the subjects of this thread."

Yes, but there hasn't been much of an opportunity to slag on that fucking uppity bitch Palin today which, as you know, is a necessary daily activity for the douche-bag trolls here.; 9/29/08, 9:10 PM
AlphaLiberal said...: Over someone who believe socialism works, a belief with actual bearing on the office? Yes. (If the dinosaur/humans/Palin thing is even true.)

Who are you talking about, exactly?

My wife tells me she moved her 401K, IRA's, and her stock portfolio to all cash last week.

Ouch. Way to lock in losses.; 9/29/08, 9:11 PM
Roberto said...: Freeman, Policy matters aren't quite the same as basic science.

Are you daft?; 9/29/08, 9:11 PM
Unknown said...: McG, 60% of House Dems voted for the bill. 33% of Rs. Pelosi delivered most of her caucus. Boehner did not. That's pretty straightforward math.

So fine. 33% of House Democrats were apparently not putting country first, if Reid is to be believed.; 9/29/08, 9:12 PM
Roberto said...: Palladian, get off the bailout for a minute...but keep in mind, this is who will be running it.

Palin: "...dinosaurs and humans walked the Earth at the same time"...she had seen pictures of human footprints inside the tracks."

do YOU believe this, too???; 9/29/08, 9:13 PM
Revenant said...: Yes, and the Republicans' inability to deliver their votes cost me $17,000 of that.

Mysteriously, the bill would still have failed if 12 additional Democrats had voted for instead of against. It absolutely had to be those magical Republican votes for Theo to keep his money. :); 9/29/08, 9:13 PM
Unknown said...: Of course dinosaurs and humans walked the earth at the same time. They still do.; 9/29/08, 9:13 PM
Unknown said...: Palladian, get off the bailout for a minute...but keep in mind, this is who will be running it.

That's just it, Michael, we don't want to get off the bailout, not in the middle of a thread about the bailout. Go peddle your wares over in a thread about Sarah Palin.; 9/29/08, 9:15 PM
Freeman Hunt said...: My cloned dinosaur would so be nipping you right now, Michael. Nip, nip, nip.

Palladian, you must be right. No Palin hate slush threads were open today.; 9/29/08, 9:15 PM
Roberto said...: This is one creepy group.

You lock in on a discussion of a 700 billion bailout, that could be handled by sarah palin, yet you appear to think it's irrelevant.

*Just kidding, we all know you just can't stand to think about who you're voting for.

The key being: "she had seen pictures of human footprints inside the tracks."

Inside the tracks??

good god...; 9/29/08, 9:16 PM
Unknown said...: Karl Rove on the bailout.; 9/29/08, 9:16 PM
Unknown said...: The key being: "she had seen pictures of human footprints inside the tracks."

I'm thinking the outer tracks were Barney Frank.; 9/29/08, 9:17 PM
Roberto said...: Freeman, what does "hate" have to do with this?

"she had seen pictures of human footprints inside the tracks."

if your kid or your husband or your best friend, or whoever said this...you would think it's reasonable??????; 9/29/08, 9:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Actually, two good friends believe that dinosaur nonsense. They're both Evangelicals, and have some rather strange views. But both of them are intelligent and very competent at what they do, which include
being a silversmith and managing a securities investment business.

And I live in an ur-Liberal suburb of Boston, 150 yards from the line of march of the Minutemen on their way from Lexington to North Bridge in Concord.

So, you don't have to go to flyover country or Alaska to find these people.

AND, I would trust either one of them with my life, as they are among the most moral, upright, honest and decent people I have ever met.; 9/29/08, 9:18 PM
Palladian said...: "do YOU believe this, too???"

OMG!!!!!1 ??! LOL R0X0RZ

I do like that the recollections of someone named "Munger" have magically become actual Palin quotations. I shall henceforth refer to this magical process as "munging".

Anyway, I've decided that "Michael" is a comedy troll now. C'mon, he must be. Dinosaurs? In an economy thread? It's funny!; 9/29/08, 9:18 PM
Roberto said...: mcg: "she had seen pictures of human footprints inside the tracks."

...you think this is TRUE???; 9/29/08, 9:18 PM
Roberto said...: palladian "she had seen pictures of human footprints inside the tracks."

...you think this is TRUE???; 9/29/08, 9:19 PM
Unknown said...: I hear global warming killed the dinosaurs.; 9/29/08, 9:19 PM
Henry said...: Alpha, regarding your A) I don't say that Mae and Mac were the only cause of the crises. From what I've read, the way bad loans were packaged had a lot to do with creating excess risk. But the problems with Mae and Mac illustrate the complicity of Congress in supporting easy credit and Pelosi insults the intelligence of all non-Democrats by ignoring that fact.

Regarding your B) You're totally right. Pelosi can say whatever she wants to say. She just can't expect to get the votes she needs when she says what she wants to say.

Funny, Gringich teamed up with Clinton to get Welfare reform passed and I don't remember Clinton giving a speech about what shits the Republicans were for working with him on the bill.

When Lyndon Johnson got a civil rights bill through the Senate he almost physically armtwisted the more liberal Senators to shut their yaps.

That's called leadership.

As for whining Republicans, McCain and the House leadership should be embarassed. They look like total fools. But I hope those Republicans and Democrats who voted against the bill take credit for voting the way they did. There were good reasons to reject the bill as written.

Theo -- The New York Times reports that this is the worst two-day drop since 1987. That should give you hope. The only thing more unexpected than the 1987 crash was how quickly the markets recovered from it.; 9/29/08, 9:19 PM
Roberto said...: Theo Boehm said...you believe it to be true?; 9/29/08, 9:20 PM
Palladian said...: "Ouch. Way to lock in losses."

I know. Chill out, Theo. I've lost about 30,000 dollars, but most of my money remains surprisingly stable.; 9/29/08, 9:20 PM
Roberto said...: mcg, you do believe it.; 9/29/08, 9:20 PM
Palladian said...: "Michael", are you having some sort of psychotic break right now? Should we be calling an ambulance for you?; 9/29/08, 9:21 PM
Anonymous said...: Hey, I'll take those 12 votes from anybody. My fucking Congressman voted against it. Son of a bitch. I've sent him a polite e-mail, explaining what a weasel he is. But of course I should probably tell him something he doesn't know.

BUT it was the Republicans' idea, introduced by a Republican President. We're getting some serious Republican disarray here, and, sorry, but to me it's THEIR fault.; 9/29/08, 9:21 PM
Unknown said...: I know. Chill out, Theo. I've lost about 30,000 dollars, but most of my money remains surprisingly stable.

I've lost a ton on paper too, but fortunately my income portfolio is still kickin' it out regularly, and still will. I'll ride this out. That is, unless a dinosaur comes and takes it.; 9/29/08, 9:23 PM
Unknown said...: BUT it was the Republicans' idea, introduced by a Republican President. We're getting some serious Republican disarray here, and, sorry, but to me it's THEIR fault.

Ah, I see, so now Republicans are supposed to vote in lock-step with Bush, even though when they do so, Democrats pound them for voting in lock-step with Bush.; 9/29/08, 9:24 PM
Roberto said...: I started this, just playing around, but now I understand.

Most of you here DO believe what she said.

YOU believe dinosaurs and humans walked the Earth at the same time and that Sarah Palin actually saw pictures of human footprints inside the tracks.

Now THIS is scary.; 9/29/08, 9:24 PM
Unknown said...: Actually, I'm pretty sure dinosaurs are what chorizo is made out of.; 9/29/08, 9:24 PM
Roberto said...: Not one person here has even intimated they do not believe what Palin believes.

Is this possible??; 9/29/08, 9:27 PM
Roberto said...: mcg, i thought you were smarter.; 9/29/08, 9:27 PM
Palladian said...: THE DINOSAURS ARE ALL OVER YOUR SKIN MICHAEL!!! THEY'RE EVERYWHERE!!!; 9/29/08, 9:28 PM
Palladian said...: OMG DINOSAURS R EETING MICHAEL!!!!1; 9/29/08, 9:28 PM