Althouse: John Mellencamp, The Ventures, Leonard Cohen and The Dave Clark Five....

December 13, 2007

John Mellencamp, The Ventures, Leonard Cohen and The Dave Clark Five....

... and of course, the sure thing: Madonna.

52 comments:

George M. Spencer said...: If there's anyone I'd like to induct, it's John Mellencamp's wife, Elaine.; 12/13/07, 1:28 PM
AmPowerBlog said...: Mediocre John Mellencamp! I guess the commercialization of "This Is Our Country" put him over the top!

American Power; 12/13/07, 1:28 PM
Unknown said...: The idea that Madonna wants to be (or will be, for that matter) remembered for anything as mundane as music is pretty hilarious.

Christ, I can think off the top of my head of forty or fifty female singers who deserve to be in the Hall more than Madonna.; 12/13/07, 1:38 PM
Unknown said...: Of course, it will be amusing to read what that imbecile Camille Paglia has to say about this....

Now THERE's a woman who knows absolutely zip about pop culture yet pontificates about it at the drop of a hat.

Hmm...who does that remind me of?; 12/13/07, 1:40 PM
essaybee said...: In what universe is Madonna's music considered rock and roll?; 12/13/07, 1:49 PM
ricpic said...: Madonna: totally unlovable.

Were the Everly Bros. inducted? For me it all fell apart after the Everlys.; 12/13/07, 2:05 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "In what universe is Madonna's music considered rock and roll?"

In the universe where Leonard Cohen's is.; 12/13/07, 2:28 PM
MadisonMan said...: The hall is so white, I gotta wear shades; 12/13/07, 2:32 PM
Ignacio said...: If Madonna is Rock & Roll, then so is Britney Spears, Debbie Boone, Leslie Gore, Petula Clark and Tiffany. That's a respectable tradition in pop music, in teenage entertainment. Madonna never was and never tried to be Patti Smith, Chrissie Hynde, Joan Jett or even Debbie Harry.

If we're just judging this by sheer number of hits, Britney Spears is still right there with her. What about the Supremes?

Or the Shangri-Las? Is "Like a Virgin" as good a song as "Leader of the Pack"?

And, as Lester Bangs once said (about David Bowie, in a conversation with Lou Reed): Did she ever do anything as good as "Woolly Bully"?

(For that matter, if one includes the Dave Clark Five then why not Herman's Hermits? They had more hits. Why leave out Paul Revere and the Raiders?); 12/13/07, 2:32 PM
john said...: I thought you had to be dead or retired 10 years to get inducted. Is that just baseball? Well, Madonna "played" in a baseball movie, actually a pretty good one, awhile back. Her acting then was much better than her singing is.

Dave Clark Five? Did they get in for best matching jackets?; 12/13/07, 2:36 PM
john said...: Can we make this a pile-on-Madonna thread?; 12/13/07, 2:38 PM
George M. Spencer said...: Interesting that Carl Perkins also recorded a song titled "Glad All Over." (That was Dave Clark's big hit and it's still a sonic blast today.)

And none of the DC5's songs are available on iTunes...

To change the subject, videos of the entire Zep London concert were available here this morning, but it is gone now.

Hey, man, let the music be free!

Stairway is still available here. It rocks out at 6:30.; 12/13/07, 2:45 PM
knox said...: The R&R Hall of Fame sold out, man!; 12/13/07, 2:51 PM
knox said...: Can we make this a pile-on-Madonna thread?

I don't know if this was meant sarcastically or enthusiastically, but yes, please.

Between the African adoption and her becoming Annie Anorexia, I despise her to the core of my being.; 12/13/07, 2:54 PM
Trooper York said...: Let me know when we have the pile on Jessica Simpson. I would like to participate.; 12/13/07, 2:58 PM
Unknown said...: Sheila said...

In what universe is Madonna's music considered rock and roll?

Actually, the question should be in what universe is Madonna's music considered good...; 12/13/07, 3:11 PM
Joaquin said...: Rock and Roll HOF is too diluted. They should induct 2 a year and truly make it a HOF.
Patti Smith was inducted last year. Come on, Patti Smith?
Take a look at the list.

http://www.rockhall.com/inductees/
inductee-list/; 12/13/07, 3:25 PM
Unknown said...: dax said...

Rock and Roll HOF is too diluted. They should induct 2 a year and truly make it a HOF.
Patti Smith was inducted last year. Come on, Patti Smith?

Patti Smith? Several good to great albums, hugely influential on generations of female rockers.

Why not Patti Smith?; 12/13/07, 3:36 PM
Joaquin said...: John Lennon, Chuck Berry, U2, Ray Charles, Aretha, The Stones, Hendricks, Clapton, and Patti Smith.
Which one doesn't belong??; 12/13/07, 3:44 PM
George M. Spencer said...: Great cover version of "Gloria." And "Free Horses" is a good song, but what else?

Muse to Robert Mapplethorpe?

Doesn't like Israel or Bush. Zzzzz.; 12/13/07, 3:54 PM
Unknown said...: Another recent piece of evidence supporting the claim that Madonna is a parody of a self-absorbed no-talent assclown celebrity:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12122007/gossip/pagesix/madonna_boots_yoga_class_930728.htm; 12/13/07, 3:56 PM
Unknown said...: dax said...

John Lennon, Chuck Berry, U2, Ray Charles, Aretha, The Stones, Hendricks, Clapton, and Patti Smith.
Which one doesn't belong??

Madonna.; 12/13/07, 3:56 PM
Unknown said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/13/07, 3:57 PM
Unknown said...: Link eaten.

Try here; 12/13/07, 3:59 PM
Steven said...: "The hall is so white, I gotta wear shades."

Huh? Inductees include Chuck Berry, Fats Domino, James Brown, Little Richard, Ray Charles, Sam Cooke, Aretha Franklin, B.B. King, Bo Diddley, Jackie Wilson, Marvin Gaye, Smokey Robinson, The Coasters, The Drifters, The Temptations, The Supremes, Stevie Wonder, Otis Redding, The Four Tops, Ike and Tina Turner, Wilson Pickett, Sam and Dave, The Isley Brothers, Al Green, Bob Marley, and on and on. What are you talking about?; 12/13/07, 4:06 PM
john said...: So IF the HOF had a requirement that one had to be dead 10 years to get inducted, would that mean that Mick Jagger would be or would not be eligible?; 12/13/07, 4:09 PM
IgnatzEsq said...: Can we at least all agree that the Ventures rock? Let's hope they run, don't walk, back into the public eye. Besides, their album covers alone merit induction, at least as much as Mrs. Cougar-Mellancamp.; 12/13/07, 4:18 PM
knox said...: Let me know when we have the pile on Jessica Simpson. I would like to participate.

I must admit, she has possibly the most irritating voice ever. It's not necessarily the WORST, though it really, really sucks... but everything about how she sings is grating. Even the way she pronounces words. (disclaimer: I do have to admit to sort of liking her--and Nick Lachey too--on Newlyweds back in the day.); 12/13/07, 4:20 PM
Zachary Sire said...: What you all fail to realize is that outside of the comments sections on this blog Madonna's music is considered a huge part of pop music history. Her songs from 25 years ago are played on radio every day and, sorry, timeless. Like A Virgin, Holiday, Material Girl, Like A Prayer. Express Yourself, Papa Don't Preach and Vogue are all considered classics and instantly recognizable to anyone. And don't forget her success on the charts....Take a Bow was a #1 single for like 2 months, all of her albums have debuted in the top 5, and she's sold over 200 million albums worldwide. She's also a multiple Grammy winner, and her musical performances in Dick Tracy and Evita won the songwriters Academy Awards.

Whether you like it or not...she has a long and rich legacy in the music industry and deserves to be inducted.; 12/13/07, 4:32 PM
MadisonMan said...: Steven, I was referring to this year's inductees -- specifically Madonna over Donna Summer!; 12/13/07, 4:32 PM
Tibore said...: Sorry, I gotta go with Sheila and Ignacio here. HTF is Madonna rock?

Look, if there's a Pop Hall of Fame, okay, I can accept that. But Rock??

Does that make Christina Aguilera Jazz or Soul?; 12/13/07, 4:46 PM
Steven said...: MadisonMan: Ahhhh, I see. All is forgiven.; 12/13/07, 4:56 PM
Smilin' Jack said...: knoxwhirled said...
Let me know when we have the pile on Jessica Simpson. I would like to participate.

I must admit, she has possibly the most irritating voice ever. It's not necessarily the WORST, though it really, really sucks... but everything about how she sings is grating. Even the way she pronounces words.

Clue to the testosterone-challenged: the interest in piling on Jessica has nothing to do with her voice.; 12/13/07, 4:56 PM
Unknown said...: Her songs from 25 years ago are played on radio every day and, sorry, timeless. Like A Virgin, Holiday, Material Girl, Like A Prayer. Express Yourself, Papa Don't Preach and Vogue are all considered classics and instantly recognizable to anyone.

Not timeless, not classics. They're all (at best) shrill, shrieking irritants and don't even get me started on the videos, which mostly make you want to take a shower after you've seen them.

In any case, if sales were all, Celine Dion deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, and I can't imagine anyone, even you, making that case.; 12/13/07, 5:00 PM
knox said...: .she has a long and rich legacy in the music industry and deserves to be inducted.

I might have agreed with you even 5 years ago. But her music, performances, and lame attempts to be "edgy" and relevant have tutrned her into a sad parody of herself.

You must be a die hard fan. The rest of us pretty much find her pathetic.; 12/13/07, 5:04 PM
Anonymous said...: Cohen?......COHEN???!!!; 12/13/07, 5:06 PM
Laura Reynolds said...: Well the Rock n' Roll HOF is just a commercial enterprise and we should not take it seriously. No one can really define what Rock n Roll is to anyone elses satisfaction but they can create a museum and sell a lot of tickets and we are supposed to accept it?
The reality is they have already inducted all the deserving ones that most can agree on and are now just putting together a show each year and need some names. What's next The Archies?; 12/13/07, 5:13 PM
Tibore said...: "Whether you like it or not...she has a long and rich legacy in the music industry and deserves to be inducted."

I don't think anyone here is denying her contribution to the music industry (well, okay, some here are ripping her, that's true). But the point isn't what was contributed to the music industry, it's what she contributed to Rock music.

Like I said, if given a Pop or Dance HoF, I wouldn't quibble, but Rock?

Then again, the statement above does seem to reflect the rest of the industry, judging by the presence of other non-Rock artists on the list. I guess just being part of the music industry and having an impact is enough.

So, here's a question I'd like to aim at the Music Industry: How do I nominate Luciano Pavarotti? And Leonard Bernstein? I don't think anyone can dispute their contributions to the music industry. Or is that too "out there"? How about Tony Bennett? Or Frank Sinatra? Can't deny either of their contributions either. Neither of them can be that much different from Miles Davis or Buddy Guy, who are inductees. I love them both, but c'mon! Miles Davis a rock musician? Buddy Guy??

Sorry... I'm not trying to go nuts here. Nor am I trying to pick on any individual in this thread, like ZPS whom I've quoted (seriously, my intent isn't to rip or pound on you or anything like that; it's more of a general rant). It's just that I can't help but think how this dilutes the idea of a "Rock and Roll" Hall of Fame. I know I'm beating this into the ground, but again, Madonna's induction wouldn't even be questionable if the name of the place were the "Music Industry" Hall of Fame. Or "Pop" HoF. Or something else.; 12/13/07, 5:14 PM
Tibore said...: This comment has been removed by the author.; 12/13/07, 5:21 PM
Tibore said...: "... the interest in piling on Jessica has nothing to do with her voice."

But like the breath necessary for her voice, it does start at the diaphragm and move upwards. ;); 12/13/07, 5:24 PM
Trooper York said...: You got that right,Smilin' Jack.; 12/13/07, 5:28 PM
Trooper York said...: Celine Dion is disqualified due to illegal use of camel toe. That’s worst than steroids. Actually, when my wife dragged me to see that no talent frog in Vegas, Celine had camel toe on steroids.; 12/13/07, 5:31 PM
Titusluvsu said...: I love Madonna. I love her more than anyone except my family and my rare clumbers.

She has a new album coming out and I am a wreck about what she is going to say.

Her music videos are amazing.

I would like to be her for one day and just hang out on the street and do every hot guy that walked by.

Hi fellow republicans, how is everyone tonight?

I am in Boston at our corp apt after traveling and we are having a blizzard here. The rare clumbers little paws get cold in this weather but getting them boots are too much. No clothing for dogs-sorry.; 12/13/07, 6:10 PM
Anonymous said...: I'd vote for The Knack (m-m-m-My Sharona) before I'd vote for Madonna for her decades of "contributions" to music.; 12/13/07, 6:15 PM
Zachary Sire said...: The term "Rock and Roll", while it might connote "rock" music and the musicians, pioneers, etc., is actually an all inclusive term. It includes rap, hip-hop, jazz, classical etc. That means pop music too. That said, Britney Spears will never be inducted because she was a manufactured product who did nothing on her own...plus her career was over in about 5 years.

Madonna has become a little stale in the past few years, not shocking at all really, but certainly not a parody of herself. Everything between 1983 and 2005 was a blast. I'm not a die hard fan, just someone who appreciates fun music and a smart business woman.

And whoever said that Madonna's music videos makes them want to take a shower after watching...? Come on, are we really that uptight?; 12/13/07, 9:09 PM
john said...: Sorry this is off-topic, but it can't wait.

Ann, rally your troop(er)s. You have dropped to second behind Sondra K.

Now back to Madonna (actually, good advice).; 12/13/07, 11:01 PM
Ann Althouse said...: Thanks, John, but I'd have to link to that site every day for a week to compete, and I don't want to do that, because, frankly, I'm too much of a diva to do it. They'll be a second round with just the top 4 or something anyway.; 12/13/07, 11:48 PM
Ron said...: Do we put Madonna in if she was caught using the "cream" and the "clear"?; 12/14/07, 4:43 AM
Modern Otter said...: Dave Clark Five? Did they get in for best matching jackets?

I guess due to the ten minutes or so back in '64 when it was just them and the Beatles.

Can we make this a pile-on-Madonna thread?

Putting Madonna in the R&R HOF is kind of like putting Michael Vick in the ASPCA HOF.; 12/14/07, 8:37 AM
wyaducknj said...: A hit wasn't a hit in the 60's unless the Ventures covered it. They taught more of us how to play guitar than any other band. Vote them in!; 12/14/07, 10:12 AM
Roost on the Moon said...: The best thing about the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame is the 2004 "Lifetime Achievement Award" Winner.

It's Jann Wenner.

What?! You've never heard of Jann Wenner? He's the guy who founded the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame. Where would we be without him?; 12/14/07, 2:33 PM
Amanda and SuperAmanda™ said...: They can also induct Madonna into "Sex Icons with the worst physical symmetry Hall of fame" Madonna's micro tits and thick waist and no hips are easily the crappiest I've ever seen and she's a shite actress.

About as Rock Roll as Phyllis Schaffly's douche bag.; 1/11/08, 1:48 AM