Gennifer and Monica. ... Although well aware of her husband's philandering history, Hillary backed his squishy denials, famously asserting on "60 Minutes" that she was not "some little woman standing by her man like Tammy Wynette." More deceptively, she suggested to ABC's Sam Donaldson that Bill's contacts with Flowers were just an example of how he loved to "help people who are in trouble" and "listen to their problems."Taylor lays it out crisply.
"Hillary's words uncannily foreshadowed her insistence six years later to ... a White House aide that Bill had 'ministered' to [Monica] Lewinsky because she was a troubled young woman," Sally Bedell Smith writes in her fine new book about the Clintons, For Love of Politics. Hillary has continued to insist that she believed what she said about Lewinsky. But friends and former aides have told Smith and others that she knew her husband was lying all along.
Travelgate. ... [H]er statements were contradicted by evidence, including a long-concealed memo to McLarty and a written chronology prepared by White House aide David Watkins that came to light years later....
While saying that no provable crime had been committed, Robert Ray, who had succeeded Kenneth Starr as independent counsel, reported in October 2000 that Hillary's statements had been "factually false" and that there was "overwhelming evidence that she in fact did have a role in the decision to fire the employees."
Cattle futures. ... Hillary's first explanation (through aides) of this extraordinary windfall was that she had made the investment after "reading The Wall Street Journal" and placed all the trades herself after seeking advice from "numerous people." It was so preposterous that she soon had to abandon it.....
Removal of Vince Foster documents. ...
Castle Grande. .... Castle Grande was a sewer of sham transactions... Hillary told federal investigators that she knew nothing about Castle Grande. When it turned out that more than 30 of her 60 hours of legal work for Madison Guaranty involved Castle Grande, she said she had known the project under a different name. A 1996 Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. report said that she had drafted documents that Castle Grande used to "deceive federal bank examiners."...
Billing records. ....
December 11, 2007
"How smart is it for a woman with such a bad reputation for truthfulness and veracity to put those character traits at the center of the campaign?"
Stuart Taylor, Jr. asks the classic I-thought-you-were-supposed-to-be-smart question of Hillary. He notes her ridiculous citation of Obama's "I Want to Become President" kindergarten essay and proceeds to enumerate the Clintonian dishonesty:
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It says something when a person's explanations for events are so often lies. First Bill. Now Hillary. I've just never understood people who in the face of that actually can and do vote for that.
After the Clinton and Bush administrations it appears that evidence no longer has any significance.
Spin, lie, spin, lie.
Spin, lie, spin, lie.
Apologies to Trooper.
Oh, Saturday night
Mmm, everyone's having fun
I'm down at the laundromat
Trying to get my washing done
Like I done before
Time and time again
Watching the clothes go 'round
Watching the clothes go 'round
Watching the clothes go 'round
Watching the clothes go 'round
hmm a "willing suspension of disbelief" An expert opinion.
Religious nuts, conspiracy theory whackjobs, and congenital liars.
What a collection we have to chose from in 2008!
This is such typical poppycock.
1. There have been approximately a bazillion instances where all this stuff has been investigated to the nth degree, both by special prosecutors and more so by mad-dog types.
2. No one is excusing her for putting out cover statements that were to deflect the issues raised. Could have she been more forthright? of course.
3. Is there anything tawdry whatsoever about her after her election to the Senate? no.
Lawyers say things lawyers say. The next time a lawyer gets up in court and says "my client was framed" or "he's innocent" what say you then?
Right to it though, as the "stand by her man" issue is first mentioned, what the hell do you expect a spouse to do and say? What? that is the worst of it to many but tell me what she should have said? something to ease the minds of those out for Bill? Something to toss red meat their way?
Travelgate...she gave her version. the counsel gave his version. was she indicted? no. remember that the next time you lawyers get your client on the witness stand and the answer starts with "the best of my recollection".
vince foster - my favorite. the only thing left to hurl here is "she threw the gun in the river". please.
this is "oh brother" again.
It's fiction, not lying.
It's not real. They're doing theater for the you know who demographic.
Theater doesn't lie. It's just better or worse art.
In this case, soap opera. The question is whether Obama's soap opera is better, in the primary.
Any fiction will do.
I'm most bothered by the stupidity of the posting of Obama's kindergarten "essay" on her website. I'll accept some guile and even dishonesty of the POTUS, it's almost a necessity when you play at that level. But losing using your wits when the pressure is on is another story.
The one that's always bothered me the most in Taylor's list are the cattle futures.
Watch the Andrew Young clip on YouTube.
He acknowledges that Pres. Clinton philanderered (or, should I say, philander erred). What's more, he says that Mrs. Clinton headed a Plumbers-type team to stop those leaks.
And if you're too young to remember who "The Plumbers" were, imagine Nixon in a dress.
PS-He also says that unlike the Clitons, Obama has no support network, even in Chicago.
Edwards looks better all the time...
This is old news, of course and I suspect people have made up their minds on the issues. As for me, I don't have any doubt the HRC would say or do anything to reach her goal--and the delicious irony, to me, is that the big dawg is both an asset and millstone--sweet irony in that! The thing that I most fascinated with is the kindergarten essay. To even float that says a whole lot of not good things about HRC's judgment and her willingness to deploy any piece of information to destroy a rival. But thats just me. I am sure a Clintonista can find some relevance in digging up and using a kindergarten essay in a presidential campaign.
Hillary, the compassionate misanthrope who longs to be “the little girl in the sunlight,” the girl with the most cake, the decidress, the National Mom.
Some will love her for these lies, others find confirmation of their disgust.
God help Obama if she finds some middle school notes he'd passed to a girl, or if he'd ever drawn a picture of planes and tanks and guns. Do you suppose he once pulled some girl's pigtails? Or talked back to his mother? Or took more candy from a neighbor at Halloween than was prudent?
I love the defense of "never indicted." It reminds me of my favorite line in an Addams Family movie.
Lily introduces Gomez to a lady who says, "I understand you're quite the lady killer."
With eyes flashing, Gomez, replies "Acquited!!"
I would think that at some point defending the Clintons (among other pols, of course) would become quite a burden.
I now expect a spirited defense of Lewis Libby from hdhouse, since he was not guilty of all the crimes he was accused of, except getting caught (in the legal sense) doing what the Clintons do all the time.
I love the defense of "never indicted." It reminds me of my favorite line in an Addams Family movie.
Better yet was the one from Stripes when the recruiter asks Murray and Raimes if they've ever been convicted of a felony.
"Convicted? No never convicted."
Where is Trooper when we need him....
If Hill's elected, "plausible deniability" will reenter the political lexicon.
Didn't she lie to us on Sixty Minutes, way back when? Perhaps Obama could use that appearance as a campaign ad.
I wonder if members of moveon.org suffer any cognitive dissonance when their support of Barack Obama causes them to reevaluate old slurs against the Clintons made by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Richard Scaife, and Lucianne Goldberg.
Probably not.
her insistence six years later to ... a White House aide that Bill had 'ministered' to [Monica] Lewinsky because she was a troubled young woman
oh, puke
He acknowledges that Pres. Clinton philanderered (or, should I say, philander erred). What's more, he says that Mrs. Clinton headed a Plumbers-type team to stop those leaks.
What's really interesting about the Andrew Young comment is that he says these things, things like that Bill has picked up a lot of black chicks, that Hillary was in charge of managing the bimbo eruptions, etc., to help Hillary. The wife Hillary. I'm trying to wrap my mind around that.
Original Mike,
"The one that's always bothered me the most in Taylor's list are the cattle futures."
That's the least of them, for me--plain old garden-variety money-driven corruption. You can get that anywhere--Chicago, Jersey, Louisiana, you name it.
No, the one that troubles me most is the travel office fiasco, because it's the most gratuitous. Think of it--the office serves at the pleasure of the president, so all the lies about Billy Dale and the others were for no grander purpose than sparing the Clintons a few days of bad press over letting them go w/o cause. They were perfectly willing to lie and destroy somebody's life over that???
knoxgirl: that was, in fact, one of the first reasons HRC deployed when l'affaire Monica first erupted. I suspect most folks had your reaction to the "explanation."
hdhouse: 3. Is there anything tawdry whatsoever about her after her election to the Senate? no.
You [deliberately] miss the point: fruit from the poisoned tree. Hillary enabled her husband's sexual abuse of subordinate employees, even attacked Democrat women when they came forward to report it ...all to protect her own political aspirations to become President [the Senate seat being a stepping stone to fill the "experience" category]
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The Clintons are both classic sociopaths.
"Glibness and Superficial Charm
Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests. "
Tell me this isn't the recognizable and standard pattern that the Clintons have taken over the years. I can't imagine the hell on earth that they have created by being married to each other. I just want them to keep that hell private and quit bringing the rest of us into it.
Right off the top of my head I can name two tawdry things since her election to the Senate.
First, there'd be whole Sandy Berger matter. I wouldn't have otherwise necessarily have tied him to Hillary personally, except she's now brought him into her inner circle as an advisor.
Then, like a dull throbbing headache that won't go away, there's all that Chinese funny money rooty-tooty, Norman Hsu, contributions laundered through impecunious dishwashers at Chinese restaurants, etc. She's tried to play dumb about it, but this is the exact same scheme they used ten years ago.
Kirk said: No, the one that troubles me most is the travel office fiasco, because it's the most gratuitous. Think of it--the office serves at the pleasure of the president, so all the lies about Billy Dale and the others were for no grander purpose than sparing the Clintons a few days of bad press over letting them go w/o cause. They were perfectly willing to lie and destroy somebody's life over that???
You have a very good point.
Fen said...
hdhouse: You [deliberately] miss the point: fruit from the poisoned tree. Hillary enabled her husband's sexual abuse of subordinate employees".
Geeze. your typical weak posting fen. i thought you knew better than to come back with such bs.
enabler? how does that work? she forgives him? does that make her an enabler? i doubt it. you probably do to but you are so clothed in vile you can't see straight.
enabler? how does that work? she forgives him? does that make her an enabler?
Yes it does. Here is the definition of enabler.
one who enables another to persist in self-destructive behavior (as substance abuse) by providing excuses or by making it possible to avoid the consequences of such behavior
So then, if we add the self destructive behaviour of raping women and abusing your position of power to have adulterous sex, and the spouse (Hillary) is making excuses, covering up, blaming the other women....Yes. She is an enabler. She has probably been so all her life.
Enabler and Sociopath.
ohhh and dustbunny...got that old "sociopath" in there didn't you. this out to be a laugh riot. go ahead with that...and was clinton prosecuted or even investigated for that other than the fables you zealots toss out?
NO. hmmmm thought not. and by such believable sources too.
weak shit dustbunny weak shit.
Taylor's point was that it wasn't smart politics for Hillary to make an issue on a subject where she is so open to attack. It's the people-who-live-in-glass-houses point, and it's just obvious.
That Hillary is a congenital liar, someone for whom the truth is a mere convenience, is also obvious. It was obvious about Bill as well. Everyone knew it about him (and most people know it about her). Bill was held in low regard for his personal qualities, yet remained quite popular as a President.
The voters are willing to overlook major character flaws in a candidate -- Nixon being another case in point -- if they think the candidate can deliver. Hillary needs to focus on what she can deliver. Right now, she comes across as -- inevitable in her own mind, but also the candidate who most lacks any ability to change the political dynamic of the last 20 years. She is in danger of being beaten by a candidate (Obama) whose only claim to fame is that he definitely will bring a break to that dynamic. Taylor is right that Obama's rhetoric -- really, his whole campaign -- is just an amalgam of cliches and "drivel". No one has any idea what kind of president Obama would make or what he would do. He is completely untested at this level. Yet there is such a strong desire even among the Dem primary electorate to find something better than Hillary's back-to-the-future campaign that he is getting enormous traction nonetheless.
With the voting scheduled to start in about 3 weeks, it promises to be a very interesting January.
Wow!
Another post about how it all comes down to . . .
character.And Hillary is acting out hers.
Thankfully, this time around Democrats are actually taking a long hard look and swallowing before they lockstep the vote.
With Iraq spiraling down on the list of voters' concerns, the reality that a new school candidate might actually win becomes a real possibility. Hillary is still old school, still fighting the old battles: mean Republicans who want to take stuff away from old people, anti-feminists (whoever they are), all those women who keep popping up from Bill's past (is there anyone alive who actually believes that Bill is innocent of being a congenital womanizer?). Those things aren't playing as well this time around.
She runs because she thinks she deserves to be President, she's paid her dues. She believes that spin and control and "war rooms" will still work and get her elected this time.
But the old school may not work out this time. The public might just be moving on to concerns that the old Hillary just can't adjust to.
More Clinton:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7007109937779036019&q=hillary+uncensored
&total=150&start=0&num=10
&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
Sorry about the crude link.
And there are these published gems about Her Niceness:
"Where is the G-damn f**king flag? I want the G-damn f**king flag up every f**king morning at f**king sunrise."(From the book "Inside The White House" by Ronald Kessler, p. 244 - Hillary to the staff at the Arkansas Governor's mansion on Labor Day, 1991)
"You sold out, you mother f**ker! You sold out!"From the book "Inside" by Joseph Califano, p. 213 - Hillary yelling at Democrat lawyer.
"F**k off! It's enough that I have to see you shit-kickers every day, I'm not going to talk to you too!! Just do your G*damn job and keep your mouth shut."(From the book "American Evita" by Christopher Anderson, p. 90 - Hillary to her State Trooper bodyguards after one of them greeted her with "Good morning."
"You f**king idiot."(From the book "Crossfire" p. 84 - Hillary to a State Trooper who was driving her to an event.)
"If you want to remain on this detail, get your f**king ass over here and grab those bags!"(From the book "The First Partner" p. 259 - Hillary to a Secret Service Agent who was reluctant to carry her luggage because he wanted to keep his hands free in case of an incident.)
There's much more, of course, but the true believers will just continue to deny the realities of Hillary! and her partner in crime.
this is the post of a winger.
I'm most bothered by the stupidity of the posting of Obama's kindergarten "essay" on her website. I'll accept some guile and even dishonesty of the POTUS, it's almost a necessity when you play at that level. But losing using your wits when the pressure is on is another story.
Actually, this goes from the realm of ordinary "political stupidity" and rams head-on into "officially creepy".
Hillary!s campaign is THE walking, talking poster-girl freakshow for Narcissistic Political Ambition/Entitlement and appears half crazy criticizing anyone on this issue.
He forgot to mention Craig Livingstone and the 900 FBI files. Wonder if anybody copied them for future reference?
P. Rich is the Clinton Derangement Type Personality [along with Ann and commentators] that was probably convinced, as was Huckabee, that Wayne Dumond was a poor victim castrated by Clinton's goons and thus was due a quick and speedy parole.
Mr Drummond was castrated? Well that's a relief. He always seemed to have an unhealthy interest in Arnold.
No, garage mahal. Please note I mostly quoted comments in print (all from different sources) and linked to a youtube clip. You, on the other hand, chose to make a specious, though typical Lefty, personal remark while ignoring the material. Go look into a mirror, Pookie, and gaze upon the poster image for "vacuous".
Oh wait it was Mr. Dumond? Sorry I misread it. Nevermind.
Garage Mahal -
I sure hope you aren't Bill Kelly, because I would expect more of him. However, I do congratulate you on your simple approach to dismissing troublesome information. A real timesaver!
30 yr old State Trooper heresay? Vince Foster? Got anything fresh?
So Garage--lets stipulate the Clintons were the very essence of innocence--I am curious about your take on her use of a kindergarten essay as a political hammer against Mr. Obama. Any opinions?
30 yr old State Trooper heresay?
Now there's a typo for ya.
Here's P. Rich's link for them what care.
"30 yr old State Trooper heresay? Vince Foster? Got anything fresh?"
So your stipulating everything up to 8 years ago?
Fresh I guess would be the Chinese money. And taking Sandy Burger on as an adviser. What was that all about? What would be the reaction if a Republican had been done that?
Ditto Jeff's point on Norman Hsu and all the bundled cash; Forget the Buddhist thing in 1996--just coincidence.
Taylor left out my favorite Hillary whopper: The one when she said she was named after Sir Edmund Hillary because he was the first to reach the top of Mount Everst. When reminded that he did it seven years after she was born, she blamed her mother for lying to her.
Astonishing, indeed.
So Garage--lets stipulate the Clintons were the very essence of innocence--I am curious about your take on her use of a kindergarten essay as a political hammer against Mr. Obama. Any opinions?
This script was written a long time ago. Obama [or anyone]criticizes her for always wanting to be President [getting tough!] she comes back with the kindergarten bit [ATTACK!]
It's stupid beyond words, and you guys lick it up like fresh creme.
Garage: I am more than happy to see the democrats going at it hammer and tong--saves the republicans from doing oppo research--let them fight it out in the mud wrestling pit. I don't lick it up; rather, I think it is a very sad example of the depths to which a candidate will sink in pursuit to destroy someone else in his or her pursuit of public office.
No, the one that troubles me most is the travel office fiasco, because it's the most gratuitous. Think of it--the office serves at the pleasure of the president, so all the lies about Billy Dale and the others were for no grander purpose than sparing the Clintons a few days of bad press over letting them go w/o cause. They were perfectly willing to lie and destroy somebody's life over that???
This has always bothered me the most, too. Note that none of the Clintonites who were forced to play out roles in this farce (Stephanopolous, for example) are no longer part of the machine. It must have made them sick.
And yet, I'm open to voting for her. She's 63 now. The Travel Office massacre happened when she was 48. There's been a lot of water under the bridge.
I've seen the theory that the better news from Iraq combined with the span of time since 9/11 with no further attacks equal bad news for Hillary and Rudy. I think that might turn out to be true, but I'm not buying it yet. What's really happening is Obama, Romney and Huckabee have improved their games and Rudy and Hillary haven't responded.
Mike Ditka.!! LOL Trooper
I refuse to vote for anyone named Bush or Clinton. Never again.
PLEASE Democrats, nominate Obama, I don't want 4 more years of this Soap Opera. You say you love the Black man - prove it.
pathetic republic(an) drivel.
hillary invites nothing. the mice just nibble no matter and if you don't have anything you make it up or halftruth it to death.
it is also interesting that there is nothing going on about the republic(an) candidates. perhaps its because that party doesn't have shit. you may just have to peg your hopes on some slicko named Mitt since McCain looks like a Bush butt boy, Rudy is enjoying his exposed love life, Fred looks like a dead Herman Munster..and what about some of those other saviors...Ron, Mr. Give everyone a gun (what yet another Arkansas Govenor!), gosh who else is on the embalming table...draft Newt perhaps..he's waiting!
This is just so much fun. So easy. So fish in a barrel. As I said to Fen earlier....you guys hurl such weak shit up here its pathetic.
~
hdhouse,
So nice to have you back.
I will not leave the country if Hillary is elected. Nor will I join the leagues of those who constantly write against her incompetencies if she were to win. She will be the President, and I will hold my fire out of respect for the decisions of the American people and for the office she holds, as I did when her husband was President. Until such a regrettable thing happens, I will continue to "expose" her with great glee.
I do, however take it as a matter of great pride among my friends and colleagues that I have accurately and without exception named the nominees of both parties in Presidential elections by the first of March each election year, going back to 1984 (I know, that was a hard one). I have also, though I have had 2 squeakers, correctly and without exception predicted the winner of the Presidential contests in those same years by October 10.
I do not believe that Hillary will be the next President. I do not yet know if she will even be the nominee, but I am certain enough to tender a friendly bet, sir, that if Hillary is the Democratic nominee, the next President will be a Republican. Why? Because her character and persona are set in stone.
Perhaps a case of each other's favorite beverage? We can use a neutral service such as Paypal - or choose from a myriad of other such services - to maintain each other's anonymity in the transaction, if you desire.
Sir?
Be careful B, hd’s favorite beverage is Metamucil mixed in Stoli.
Hillary bothers me.
I think that of the two, Bill was the smarter and nicer one, as well as the more adept politician.
Both lied a lot.
But as another poster said, voters are willing to overlook character flaws (in a way self-righteous media are not) in cases like Nixon, Bill Clinton, Giuliani, Arnold because they come with proven bona fides (Arnold was a major businessman and CEO in firms in sports and real estate as well as entertainment)
With Hillary, all we have is assertion by her and her followers that she is some genius ubermind who was effectively the co-governor and then co-President. WHEN will the journalist community - other than a few conservative fringe people like Taylor check her bona fides? When will some insiders go on record to confirm or deny her purported accomplishments as co-President? As Tony Blankley said, when he worked for Reagan, you knew who called the shots just from the paper trail - all the domestic and foreign policy formulation memos that had this person or that on routing, attendence at meetings where key decisions were arrived at. What others say about the impact of Hillary or other 1st Ladies and in what areas.....
The truth is this is a very weak field. Biden is not liked and has an oral diarrhea problem. Edwards a one-term Senator who opted not to run against sure defeat in NC. Obama with no executive experience and 1 year in the Senate avoiding tough votes before he decided to campaign nearly full-time to be President. Obama, who specializes in feel-good generalities and meaningless drivel? A empty suit to the future he is short on specifics about?
But what if Hillary is worse than any of them? An empty pantsuit, so to speak? She isn't near as smart as Nixon or Bill, has no significant litigation or law making history as a lawyer, failed the Bar exam, and had a 35-year long ride on nepotic connections giving her power and jobs...
A Potemkin candidate.
Note that what we did no about her as 1st Lady is she was Nancy Reagan dragon-lady stuff on staffing picks, handled "bimbo eruptions", focused on "the children! the children!", and had the Health Care fiasco. That's it. Now we have Bubba going around saying she was the one who nearly got us ME Peace, despite Israelis saying she wasn't at any substantial meetings.
Is she one big fraud?
HD--why don't you just go away--it was a lot nicer when you werent here dropping your piles of feces with no substance--and the only time you tried substance, you were absolutely wrong--how is that 1993 war powers resolution going, by the way? Tell us again HD how the AUMF was invalid. When you learn a fact, HD, we might listen--but I doubt it. A man that doesnt know the difference between ebonics and eugenics doesnt have a lot of credibility and having a foul mouth doesnt make up for lack of IQ. Go away.
Is she one big fraud?
Yes.
Her meltdown when Tim Russert asked her a pointed question showed just how shallow a candidate she is. Not to mention the fake southern accent speaking at SB black churches and canned questioners and the creepy stalking of Obamas childhood.
The press just glosses over this and swoons about the "smartest woman in the world". Gag me.
oh roger don't be such a child.
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