November 30, 2007
"What we cared about was that he was real."
Sorry about the light blogging this morning. You might want to talk about this Howard Kurtz piece which looks at CNN's approach to selecting questioners for its YouTube debate. The quote in the heading is from David Bohrman, CNN's Washington bureau chief, justifying using a question from Retired Brig. Gen. Keith Kerr, who's on Hillary Clinton's steering committee on gay and lesbian issues.
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127 comments:
They cared that a veteran was real?
Wow.
That's unusual.
We're not perfect. But we tried extremely hard.
Try harder.
Now we know that Republicans are wimps and can't take real questions from real Americans.
Guess too many years of Bush events, where only die hard Republicans are allowed to attend, has made Republicans very very soft.
But it was great for the American audience - who got to see how bigoted the Republicans are. They booed and jeered a General, simply because he's gay.
That's the Republican motto "Support the Troops - Unless they're faggots!"
And the questions from Democrats were actually the sane ones. The questions from the Republicans were the looney ones (Confederate flag, etc.)
Next time - let's just have questions from looney wingnut Republicans.
DLT, I think the Republican motto really is...
That's the Republican motto "Support the Troops - Unless they're Democrats, liberals, faggots or not in agreement with the Vice President."
The left is taking CNN to task for their poor quality debate work. CNN has really gone down the toilet.
dtl: Now we know that Republicans are wimps and can't take real questions from real Americans
Oh please. Republicans answered all questions, even the plants from Democrat campaign operatives.
Its the Democrats that are wimps - afraid to appear on FOX to take questions from Brit Hume and Mara Liasson.
GOP appears on CNN and responds to all questions. Dems too chickenshit to appear on FOX. Case Closed.
The only thing valuable (from the network's perspective) about questions from so called average people is that they have the possibility of making the professional moderators/questioners look good.
Overall I just have to hope that the intellectual power of the United States is being used to cure diseases and otherwise advance the human race, because there's not a lot evident in the political process.
So if you're a Republican you're not a real American?
That's quite offensive. Though I'm a fake American apparently and shouldn't ask questions of my betters.
I sure do hope that in the Republican primaries the Democrats, the real Americans, will have gotten the answers they need and will pick someone good for me to vote for in the general election.
I do agree with Fen (! wtf?) that this episode pretty much ends the Democrats' credibility in boycotting Fox for a debate.
I'm not particularly bothered that the GOP candidates faced questions from Democrats -- after all, everyone running wants to win the overall race, not just his or her party's nomination.
But CNN had to have received thousands of YouTube questions. How the hell did they manage to choose so many from people with institutional/organizational connections? I'm much more offended by their obvious rejection of the regular people, people who went to some trouble to compose a question and put it on YouTube, who thought they were really being asked to participate in the debate process. Fie on CNN for that.
If anyone does a YouTube session again, it needs to be randomized. I'd rather see some outlandish results than this handpicked elitism again.
I don't understand why anyone would have a problem with Democratic supporters, asking Republicans questions. Did I miss something? I think Democrats should answer Republican supporters questions too.
Wanna be fair? Send the Democratic candidates over to Fox News or something like that. All of these politicians should answer questions from everybody. Nobody in their right mind thinks it's actually possible that Hillary, or Obama is gonna become president anyway (sorry never gonna happen), so ask 'em what you want.
So if you're a Republican you're not a real American?
That's quite offensive.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, Paddy O, and assume you were as gobsmacked when Newt Gingrich declared liberals are not real Americans, and in fact the enemies of real Americans.
Fen bloviates:
"GOP appears on CNN and responds to all questions."
Try to keep up, Fen. CNN is now following Fox, propping up Glenn Beck despite his low ratings and showing a con bias.
For example, why would Grover Norquist be given a chance to ask a question?
Beth:
"I do agree with Fen (! wtf?) that this episode pretty much ends the Democrats' credibility in boycotting Fox for a debate. "
Why would you say that? The point in boycotting Fox is that it's a Republican broadcast network intent on making Democrats look terrible. Why do you want Dems to support such an institution?
CNN flubbed some research on a questioner, so what. They also failed to ask tough questions on health care, Mideast peace, and other topics.
No way was their action comparable to A Fox Noise hit.
Alpha: CNN flubbed some research on a questioner, so what.
Bwahahahaha!
No way was their action comparable to A Fox Noise hit.
How can you compare? Democrats are too chickenshit to appear at a FOX presidential debate. What a double standard you have.
Even Beth, despite whatever contempt she may have for me personally, sees the hypocrisy.
What does it say about your judgement that you can't see it too?
Now we know that Republicans are wimps and can't take real questions from real Americans.
Fine and dandy, and that might fly, except it gets derailed, first, when one remembers that is was the democrats who flat out refused to participate in any debate on FOX NEWS, and second, when one observes how the whole democrat apparatus and all the little apparatchiks operating in it went nutsy fagin tilt when their candidate was asked an innocuous and simple question about her own democrat governor's policy favoring driver's licenses for illegals, with screams of unfair! unfair! rightwing question! unfair! gotcha game!
And that was a question by a leftard member of the MSM, Tim Russert. Imagine how the democrats would react if they were asked questions by actual republicans.
Alpha: Why would you say that? The point in boycotting CNN is that it's a Democrat broadcast network intent on making Republicans look terrible.
Fixed.
Except that the GOP doesn't boycott CNN.
Alpha: CNN flubbed some research on a questioner, so what.
You're losing what remaining credibility you may have on this blog:
"Now it appears that an amazing number of partisan figures posed many of the 30 questions at the GOP debate all the while pretending to be CNN’s advertised “undecided voters.” Yasmin from Huntsville, Alabama turns out to be a former intern with the Council on American Islamic Relations, a group highly critical of Republicans. Blogger Michelle Malkin has identified other plants, including declared Obama supporter David Cercone, who asked a question about the pro-gay Log Cabin Republicans. A questioner who asked a hostile question about the pro-life views of GOP candidates turned out to be a diehard John Edwards supporter (and a slobbering online fan of Mr. Cooper). Yet another “plant” was LeeAnn Anderson, an activist with a union that has endorsed Mr. Edwards.
It seems more “plants” are being uprooted with each passing day. Almost a third of the questioners seem to have some ties to Democratic causes or candidates."
/John Fund, via Instapundit
How many Republican Primary Voters watch CNN?
How many Democratic Primary Voters watch Fox?
I don't know the answer to my two questions -- but if Democratic Primary Viewership of Fox is scant, why should Democrats appear there? Shouldn't they be where they can reach more potential voters? Do more Republican Primary voters watch CNN than Democratic Primary voters watch Fox? I think (but I don't know) that the answer is yes.
Beth: I'm not particularly bothered that the GOP candidates faced questions from Democrats --
Me neither. GOP candidates are used to this double standard, and besides, anyone running for POTUS should be able to handle tough loaded questions. If not, they need to find another vocation
after all, everyone running wants to win the overall race, not just his or her party's nomination.
Well, the primaries are for the party to pick their nominees. I seem to recall Democrats going ballistic because the GOP crossed over to vote for their favorite Dem in some State primary...
Regardless, I agree with you, so long as you mean to extend your comment to all parties, not just the GOP.
Maybe CNN will invite me to question Hillary at the next debate? Highly unlikely.
As I said previously - the questions from the Democrats were actually very sane. They were good probing questions. And they were not in any way slanted. A gay general has every right to ask why people like him should be kicked out of the military just for being gay. It is irrelevant if he worked on a Steering Committee for Hilary Clinton. I'm certain that of the 3500 youtube submissions, that was definitely in the top 10.
When the Democrats debated, they got questions from people who were Republicans. But you didn't see the Democrats trying to slam them, digging up personal information on them - finding out what kind of dog feed they feed their pets.
Republicans have turned into the fascist party. If you disagree with them - they try and destroy you, they try and destroy your family, aka Scott Beauchamp.
Republicans were originally afraid of doing the youtube debate. It's only if they got shamed by the American public that they about-faced. Now we know why they were so scared. Because they come across looking like bigots and wingnuts. And that's from their ANSWERS not the questions.
Maybe CNN will invite me to question Hillary at the next debate? Highly unlikely.
The Professor should ask Hillary! and Giuliani to her blog and answer questions from readers. That would be a must-see vlog.
Madison: How many Republican Primary Voters watch CNN? How many Democratic Primary Voters watch Fox?
Your question should be: "How many Republican Primary Voters watch CNN's GOP debates? How many Democratic Primary Voters watch Fox's Democrat debates?
Each network's daily audience is irrelevant. Whats relevant is how many tune in to watch their party's primary debate, regardless of who's hosting.
I havn't watched CNN since the first Gulf War, but I taped this one b/c it was of interest to me.
Beth, I never really liked Gingrich.
I don't know if I was gobsmacked. Seemed expected rhetoric from a politician. Demonize the opponent.
I think it's wrong and I think that kind of language is inappropriate from either side. One reason why Republicans flubbed their chance so bad and lost Congress.
Howard Kurtz, however, isn't supposedly a leader in the Democratic party. And I don't think Gingrich supported Republicans choosing Democratic candidates in primaries.
dtl: Republicans have turned into the fascist party. If you disagree with them - they try and destroy you, they try and destroy your family, aka Scott Beauchamp.
Ignoring the other hallucinations in your post for moment - Scott Beauchamp was "destroyed" not because he disagreed with anyone, but because he falsely accused the troops of horrible acts.
Kinda like the Democrat you guys ran for President last election...
Actually the Swiftboating is an excellent example.
John Kerry's story has been proven to be completely true - yet you continue to slander him.
Scott Beauchamp's story, except for one minor detail (the location of where a joke was made) is true. Yet you continue to slander him.
Like I said - the politics of personal destruction.
So easy for Fen to attack good soliders like Kerry, Beauchamp, and the gay general, while he sits home and eats doritos anonymously behind a computer.
Fen, no way CNN is a Democratic network.
CNN's Brown called MoveOn.org "American insurgents".
CNN's Roberts equated "Christian conservatives" with "values voters" (Very false claim).
CNN's Bohrman apologized to Republican candidates over question in YouTube debate, but has yet to apologize to Democrats
CNN ignored McCain's missed vote while highlighting Obama's missed vote
Then there's Glenn Beck, Lou Dobbs, Nancy Grace. CNN has become a shadow of Faux News.
No reason to ask about Gays in the Military in a Republican debate, let alone fly a Gay general clear across the country to confront the candidates and make a speech. Just liberal CNN bias.
This is a liberal issue, not a conservative or a Republican one. No one on the right cares about this.
Republicans need to have debates where either the candidates ask each other questions or have members of CONSERVATIVE news Organizations/journalists/talk show hosts ask the questions.
Stop letting the liberals control the Republican debates.
CNN's Republican Gotchya questions posed to Democrats at Democratic debate:
* To all the candidates: Tell me your position on gun control, as myself and other Americans really want to know if our babies are safe. This is my baby, purchased under the 1994 gun ban.
* My question for all the candidates: How do we pull out now? And the follow-up: Are we watching the same blankin' war? I certainly wasn't a big fan of the invasion/liberation. It sickens me to hear about soldiers wounded and getting killed daily, not to mention innocent Iraqis, but how do we pull out now? Government's shaky; bombs daily.
Don't you think if we pulled out now that it would open it up for Iran and Syria, God knows who -- Russia -- how do we pull out now? And isn't it our responsibility to get these people up on their feet? I mean, do you leave a newborn baby to take care of himself? How do we pull out now?
* My question is for Mike Gravel. In one of the previous debates, you said something along the lines of, "The entire deaths of Vietnam died in vain."
How do you expect to win in a country where probably a pretty large chunk of the people voting disagree with that statement and might very well be offended by it? I'd like to know if you plan to defend that statement, or if you're just going to flip-flop. Thanks.
* I'm a proud serving member of the United States military. I'm serving overseas.
This question is to Senator Hillary Clinton. The Arab states, Muslim nations, believe its women as being second-class citizens. If you're president of the United States, how do you feel that you would be even be taken seriously by these states in any kind of talks, negotiations, or any other diplomatic relations? I feel that's a legitimate question.
--------------------
Note we didn't see "Democratic questions" asked of the Republicans, beyond the
General's question.
I'd be interested in knowning if any of the Democrats, especially Hillary and Obama, have been asked to explain why they haven't submitted legislation to overturn the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy.
dtl: John Kerry's story has been proven to be completely true - yet you continue to slander him.
dtl, the SwiftBoat attack used Kerry's own testimony to "slander" him. Hell, they even had him on tape falsely accusing the troops of war crimes.
Scott Beauchamp's story, except for one minor detail (the location of where a joke was made) is true.
Nope. The "minor" detail you mention was critical, since it moved his account to Kuwait before he entered the war zone. His point was that war turns ordinary men into monsters.
The rest of his fable has also proven false:
"It has been conclusively proven that The New Republic did not fact-check a claim made in a previous "Scott Thomas" story, even though that claim was an allegation of murder. A simple Google Search would have proven the basis for the claim categorically false on the first two pages of results. It was 30 seconds they didn't take.
The first claim made in "Shock Troops," was that "Thomas" and a fellow soldier verbally abused a burn victim at Forward Operating Base (FOB) Falcon because combat left them desensitized to basic human decency and dignity. After it was noted that no such woman has ever been at FOB Falcon, the story was changed to another base, in another country, at a time before the unit saw combat. This of course, completely undermines the premise of the claim, and Foer’s claim that the article had been "rigorously edited and fact-checked." As it turns out, both military personnel and civilian contractors at the Kuwaiti base also dispute the story having occurred there, either. They state on the record that no soldier or civilian contractor matching this description has ever been at this base, and that the story is an urban legend or myth. This was told to TNR editor Jason Zengerle. Zengerle never relayed that to the readers of The New Republic. No such woman has ever been found, and yet TNR has yet to have the decency to retract this claim.
A second claim made in "Shock Troops" by Thomas was that while his unit excavated ground for the creation of a new combat outpost, that the remains of children were uncovered, and one soldier in his unit wore part of a rotting child's skull on his head for amusement. Neither Foer nor any other editor at TNR have been able to substantiate this claim. An official U.S Army investigation that was launched primarily because of this specific claim found no credible evidence for this or the other claims made by "Thomas." Two months later, TNR has not issued a retraction for this claim.
A third claim made by "Thomas" in "Shock Troops" was that a Bradley armored vehicle driver used the 25-ton tracked vehicle to crush "curbs, concrete barriers, corners of buildings, stands in the market, and his favorite target: dogs." Since this time, every Bradley IFV commander and driver in Alpha Company has refuted this story as part of the military investigation, and Bradley IFV experts, including active duty and retired drivers and commanders, and even the company's spokesman, have stated that the vehicle could not perform the actions described in the story. Once again, Franklin Foer and The New Republic has had two months to substantiate this claim. They have failed, and yet still lack the decency to print a retraction."
http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/241167.php
Beauchamp himself has repudiated his own articles, admitted he made them up.
dtl: So easy for Fen to attack good soliders like... the gay general
Liar. I've never done so. And the "gay general" was applauded when he first stood up at the debate. He was only booed later, because he refused to sit down after asking his question and began to give a lecture.
Alpha Liberal, you forgot the question the Democrats were asked about how they're always raising taxes and spending.
Silly Democrats - they should have just come out and said they had PROOF that the questions were asked by CHRISTIANS.
I mean that's the latest wingnut screed - that one of the questioners happened to belong to a Muslim rights organization. So what.
I'd be interested in knowning if any of the Democrats, especially Hillary and Obama, have been asked to explain why they haven't submitted legislation to overturn the "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy.
CNN
TNR
Liars
Alpha: CNN's Republican Gotchya questions posed to Democrats at Democratic debate
You'll have to do better than that. Huge difference between what you think are "Republican" questions and actual Republicans asking those questions. Name names and identify ties to GOP party, as Malkin has done. Otherwise, you're full of it.
I tell ya, you and DTL are being especially dishonest today.
Wow - Confederate Yankee. Now that's a real source of authority there. Not.
There are youtube videos of soldiers taunting dogs. There are youtube videos of soldiers taunting Iraqi children.
Sorry Fen - our soldiers are not saints.
But like I said - when you sit anonymously behind your computer eating doritos, then you don't know what it's like to fight a real war. Instead - you just attack good soldiers for telling the truth.
Tell me Fen - why do you think the gay general is unfit to serve.
Answer - Because Fen is an anti-gay bigot. And likely a closeted faggot.
Fen - You are a fool.
It was a youtube debate.
That means the questions are asked by ordinary Americans who submit a youtube video.
It is NOT limited to Republicans who can ask questions. It was open to anyone.
Including snowmen you imbecile.
You're creating a controversy where none exists. Gays, muslims, and yes - Democrats - were not forbidden from submitting questions.
Alpha: Fen, no way CNN is a Democratic network.
It is as much [if not more] a Democrat network as FOX is Republican.
I find your clouded vision to be very entertaining - Gee, CNN objectivity is "proven" because they called out some of their own Leftists... I can find similar cites for FOX attacking Republican groups.
Who taught you to think this way? They really did you harm.
Considering that only 28% of this country are wingnuts, I think that makes the other 72% ordinary.
Republicans have proven themselves unfit to run this country. The only issues they care about are fake issues. According to Republicans, these are the biggest issues facing America.
1) Democrats got to ask 4 out of 30 questions in a youtube debate.
2) Scott Beauchamp made a funny joke about an ugly chick.
3) The 9/11 memorial in Pennsylvania kinda, sorta, maybe looks like a red crescent.
4) There was a newspaper ad about General Betrayus.
5) Torture is cool
That's the Republican agenda for you America.
No word about Iraq, the credit crisis, the falling dollar, the savings rate that is at zero, the complete lack of respect we have in the world now, the failure to capture Osama Bin Laden.
You didn't see the landslide defeat in 2006 and you're blind to it in 2008.
Good. Keep it up. I mean that.
"John Kerry's story has been proven to be completely true - yet you continue to slander him."
when was this?
DTL has never been intellectually honest in here. If the Dems had a debate tomorrow and non identified republican operatives asked a third of the questions he would immediately forget his talking points today and take the opposing side. It's all about the now. Consistency isnt necessary.
dtl: Wow - Confederate Yankee. Now that's a real source of authority there. Not.
Actually it is. They uncovered more leads and did better fact- checking of the story than anyone in the media, including TNR. Of course you would attack the source.
http://mediamythbusters.com/index.php?title=Scott_Thomas_Beauchamp
How do you explain that Beauchamp recanted his entire story under oath? Or that he retracted it in a followup conversation with TNR?
Scott's unit is on leave and liberty as we speak, out of Iraq. He's free to speak to anyone he wants, anytime he wants.
Um - Scott Beauchamp has retracted nothing Fen. Except for that one fact. Sorry - keep trying.
jeff - Republicans asked plenty of questions at the Democratic debate as I pointed out as did alphaliberal. And a snowman too! So freaking what - they are allowed to ask questions. That is the point of the "youtube" debate. It's open to anyone.
Keep up with your fake controversies. Republicans are unfit to govern this country and are making fools out of themselves.
Now we know that Republicans are wimps and can't take real questions from real Americans.
Guess too many years of Bush events, where only die hard Republicans are allowed to attend, has made Republicans very very soft.
The point DTL.. is that this was a debate for the Republican Primary to determine which candidate that party wants to represent them in the National Election. It wasn't to be a debate about issues that Democrats hold near and dear and to be presented by Democrats, Party Activists and others who have hidden agendas.
The entire reason for a Primary debate is to have the candidates address the issues that the voters in their own party will be interested in. Democrats are not going to be voting in the Republican Primary and vice versa. So to have the debate hijacked and diverted from its purpose by CNN was an affront and a waste of time for all involved....the Candidates who didn't get to get their message out and the viewers who had to listen to a bunch of slanted, biased diatribes from people who had absolutely no right or reason to be participating the the Republican Primary Debate.
Now, when we have a National Debate those partisan questions from BOTH sides are perfectly acceptable. Until then the Democrats need to butt the hell out of Republican debates.
See the outrage from fen and jeff about Scott Beauchamp making a joke. Or from a Democrat asking a question (and a good question at that) at a youtube debate.
Too bad they're not outraged at Osama Bin Laden running free.
Too bad they're not outraged at 4000 dead Americans in a useless war.
Too bad bad they're not outraged at a plumetting dollar.
Too bad they're not outraged at the loss of Habeus Corpus in this country or our violation of the Geneva Conventions.
dtl: But like I said - when you sit anonymously behind your computer eating doritos, then you don't know what it's like to fight a real war. Instead - you just attack good soldiers for telling the truth.
I'm a former US Marine. 12 years. Served in Kuwait, Iraq and Somolia. Combat Action Ribbon. And I know a shitbird when I see him. Beauchamp and Kerry are both shitbirds.
Tell me Fen - why do you think the gay general is unfit to serve.
I don't. Idiot.
I'm heartened that your wounds are self-inflicted, and that you continue to feed your self-destructive rage with leftist propaganda. I sincerely hope you choke on it.
Sorry dustbunny - It was a youtube debate.
If the candidates only want to participate in debates with lay-up questions from die-hard supporters, they can choose to do so.
They chose to participate in the youtube debate. And it actually was a good debate.
But since they came across looking like wingnuts, let's change the topic and have all this fake moral outrage.
Gosh! A gay general got to ask a question. Not fair!!!! Wahh!!! Waah!! Mommy!! Help me!! CNN is being unfaaaaaaiiiiiiirr.
Wuss.
Scott Beauchamp made a funny joke about an ugly chick.
Vintage, revealing DTL.
Oh - so Fen freely admits that he's part of a bigoted organization.
I should have guessed that.
He's a wimp who is afraid to work with gay people.
We have a word for them - closeted faggot.
"Republicans asked plenty of questions at the Democratic debate as I pointed out as did alphaliberal."
Document it. How do you know they were republicans?
Too bad fen didn't die in combat. That would have been cooool.
Um Jeff - We don't actually care who asked the question.
Shocking right.
If it's a good question - it's a good question. It's that simple.
dtl: Um - Scott Beauchamp has retracted nothing Fen. Except for that one fact. Sorry - keep trying.
He's retracted everything he wrote.
And a military investigation found him to be liar:
"July 31, 2007 memorandum from Major John D. Cross, the Investigatiing Officer, entitled "Legal Review of AR 15-6 Investigation Regarding Allegations of Soldier Misconduct Published in The New Republic" found[1]:
- That the incident of blatant disrespect for a disfigured woman in the FOB Falcon DFAC is a tale completely fabricated by Private Beauchamp.
- That the descration of human remains and the discover of a "Saddam-era dumping ground" is false.
- That the deliberate targeting of wild dogs is completely unfounded.
- That Private Beauchamp desired to use his experiences to enhance his writing and provide legitimacy to his work possibly becoming the next Hemmingway.
- That Private Beauchamp is not a credible source for making the allegation he wrote about in "Shock Troops." He admitted that he was not an eyewitness to the targeting of dogs and only saw animal bones during the construction of Combat Outpost Ellis.
- Combined with the piece of fiction that he wrote on 8 May 2006 on his blog, I find that Private Beauchamp takes small bits of truth and twists and exaggerates them into fictional account that he puts forth as the whole truth for public consumption.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Legal_Review_of_AR_15-6_Investigation_Regarding_Allegations_of_Soldier_Misconduct_Published_in_The_New_Republic.pdf
Too bad fen didn't die in combat. That would have been cooool.
[yawn]
Keep that blood pressure up, baby.
Fen - I don't CARE about your FAKE controversies.
Scott Beauchamp is not what Americans care about.
They care about the war. They care about the economy. They care about Osama Bin Laden running loose. They care about health care.
YOU JUST DON'T GET IT.
Keep rambling on about non-issues.
And go sign up for the war while you're at it. Really - you would be one casualty I'd be glad to read about.
It's pricks like fen that are the reason I'm leaving this shitty country.
Can't wait to get out. Only 2 weeks left.
But don't worry - I'll still be commenting.
Sorry dustbunny - It was a youtube debate.
If the candidates only want to participate in debates with lay-up questions from die-hard supporters, they can choose to do so.
They chose to participate in the youtube debate. And it actually was a good debate.
Sorry DTL.... it was a Republican Primary Debate with a Youtube format. The question were purported from Republican voters and undecided voters. The candidate were browbeaten into performing (like dancing bears) in this rediculous format. It wasn't to be a debate between the two parties but rather a vetting of our own candidates.
I don't give a crap about gays being in the military, gay marriage or gays in general. On the list of things I think about that whole topic is lower than the urgency of what I plan to make for dinner. So your fixation that the issue is that a Gay General asked a question is far off base. The issue is that a Clinton, operative who clearly has no real interest in a Republican Primary, was inserted into the program to push the Democrat agenda. If the General was a registered Republican asking the same question there would be no controversy.
I just can't believe that you people (on the left) don't understand this and so obstinately blind. If you threw a dinner party and I invited myself and about 10 of my friends to your party and monoploized the conversation to subjects that I wanted to talk about, wouldn't you be outraged?
"See the outrage from fen and jeff about Scott Beauchamp making a joke."
Yeah, see that. Uh, where? I think the outrage was the slander of the troops, but I am curious where I mentioned anything about it. How about posting what I said.
aaakkkk.... proof reading is my friend... sorry for all the spelling and grammar errors in my last post!!
"Um Jeff - We don't actually care who asked the question."
Then why mention it? And since you did mention it, how about backing it up?
You are a disgusting scumbag, DTL.
"Too bad fen didn't die in combat. That would have been cooool."
Yeah, too bad someone you disagree with politically didn't die. So anyway, go back to telling us how the Republicans are all fascists?
Yes, DTL I saw your post before you deleted. You said that you wished that Fen had been killed in combat. Fuck off.
"t's pricks like fen that are the reason I'm leaving this shitty country."
Really? What was that about not being able to take the heat? So just out of curiosity, what country did you find where every single person agrees with every single thing you do? Or are you planning on moving a lot?
He's probably moving to some sex tourist spot so he can date little boys.
What would happen if an x Party candidate had said something along the lines of You know, I don't think most x Party Primary Voters really care about that -- I'll save my answer to that for the General Election. If it's obvious that y Party members have infiltrated to ask questions, would that be a bad tack to take?
DTL: It's pricks like fen that are the reason I'm leaving this shitty country.
Thanks for giving me the credit. I work really hard to get weasels like you to flee the country. I hope you wind up in Amsterdam.
"If it's obvious that y Party members have infiltrated to ask questions, would that be a bad tack to take?"
I think you answer whatever question comes your way, but the debate at this level is to help the democrat or republican voter decide who to elect in the primary. So the questions should be based on that. In the general election, I would imagine any question would be fair.
"DTL: It's pricks like fen that are the reason I'm leaving this shitty country."
Shitty country huh. I guess that says it all. I never voted for Clinton, but I NEVER considered this country to be other than the greatest in the world. I wonder about people like you willing to ignore the good and focus on the bad. I wonder how any other country in the world would stand up to the particular scrutiny you save for this one.
/echo
AlphaLiberal: Republicans asked plenty of questions at the Democratic debate as I pointed out
Fen: "Huge difference between what you think are "Republican" questions and actual Republicans asking those questions. Name names and identify ties to GOP party, as Malkin has done. Otherwise, you're full of it."
Jeff: "Document it. How do you know they were republicans?"
AlphaLiberal: *bravely runs away*
DTL:
Please say hello to Alec Baldwin and all the other celebs who promised to leave the country when Bush won in 2004.
DTL: Which country will you be going to? Better than the USA?
If you threw a dinner party and I invited myself and about 10 of my friends to your party and monoploized the conversation to subjects that I wanted to talk about, wouldn't you be outraged?
Um - No.
And I never deleted any post. So stop accusing me of that Sgt. Ted. Or do you get off on lying?
I'll gladly admit, as I always have, that I take joy when anti-gay bigot scums croak. That's why I get pleasure when I read the obituaries, as I'm one day closer to freedom.
This is a shitty country. Didn't used to be. But we now torture innocent people. Gays are second class citizens. And we no longer have the protection of the Constitution - everything is up the whim of the decider. Sorry - but that's shitty.
And it's full of lots of shitty people like fen and sgt. tedd. Or fascists as I like to call them.
There are plenty of countries that are better than the United States. With the low dollar - I'm pretty certain that we're not even in the top 10 of wealthiest countries per capita anymore. And many countries have much more freedom than the United States does.
I'll vote with my feet thank you very much. And gladly pull my multi-million dollar net worth out of this country.
I'm moving to Asia Brylun. Rather not say where.
With the fascists on this thread, I would fear for my personal safety - lunatics that they are.
DTL: Plenty of countries better than the USA? Like...?
jeff, yes, the statement I wrote would be said during a Primary "debate".
DTL: Be careful about those Chinese products...
Oh - let's see.
Canada, Australia, Great Britian, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Japan, Hong Kong, Norway, Italy, France, the Netherlands, Denmark, Ireland.
To name a few. I've visited all of them as well, bar Denmark. Worked in 3 of them. All wealthy and all have a much better quality of life.
I'm a capitalist Brylun. I'm not afraid of Chinese products and I happen to be a big fan of more trade with China.
Democrats can vote in the Republican primaries in New Hampshire. And vice versa.
Why the hell shouldn't the questions be open to people of all political parties?
If you threw a dinner party and I invited myself and about 10 of my friends to your party and monopolized the conversation to subjects that I wanted to talk about, wouldn't you be outraged?
Um - No.
Reaaaallly? You wouldn't be offended by party crashers who have nothing in common with you?
Well, you just let me know when the next gathering is at your home and I'll be sure to bring, unannounced and uninvited, 10 of the local good ole boys, Republican contractors who usually hang out at the beer bar after they get off work.
I'm sure that you and all your friends will be enthralled when they monopolize the conversation with NASCAR, NRA, bible thumping, gay bashing, rebel flag waving, Muslim hating conversations. All the stuff you imagine in your distorted perception that they talk about. This is the same bigoted and distorted view that CNN presented.
This isn't really what these guys discuss, but I'll be sure to have them comply with your preconceptions.
Thanks for giving me the credit. I work really hard to get weasels like you to flee the country. - Fen
I know. Your goal is to pass anti-gay bigoted laws to get gay people to leave the country.
Congratulations. It's working.
Just stop denying you're a bigot.
All the stuff you imagine in your distorted perception that they talk about.
The gay general was booed when he said he was gay. That's not imagining. That's bigotry and that's real.
And dust bunny queen - I was in the closet for many years. And I was a registered Republican.
I know very well what they say about gay people when they don't think there is a gay person in the room. And it aint pretty.
Want proof? Here ya go.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1929693/posts
I dont have any problem with Republican (or democratic)candidates being asked questions from the opposing party in the general election. This, however, was a republican debate for primary voters and should have been reserved for republicans who would be voting in the primaries. Once you get past that issue, then there is the (at least to me) overwhelming evidence that CNN knew quite well what it was doing in selecting questioners as evidenced by its willingness to fly BG Kerr to the debate site so he could ask the question personally. It didnt take the republican side of the blogosphere to identify in rather short order the number of democratic activists selected by CNN for questions--a number which looks to me like it far exceeds the chance of random selection.
Bottom line for me: I dont think the republican candidates were hurt by the questions; in fact, they probably got better preparation than any of the democratic candidates have gotten in their "debates." CNN continues to demonstrate it is an absolute disgrace in terms of journalistic standards, although, increasingly the term "journalistic standards" is oxymoronic.
Downtown--
Your profile says that you are New York-based banking systems analyst whose favorite movies include "Reservoir Dogs" and "Blue Velvet" and that your favorite musical groups include "Rancid" "Trapd" "Hole" and "Urge Overkill."
Pretty dark stuff...
Sorry you have not been happy here in America. Hope you find what you are looking for in Asia.
dtl: I know. Your goal is to pass anti-gay bigoted laws to get gay people to leave the country
No dtl, it has nothing to do with the fact you're gay.
The gay general was booed when he said he was gay.
Thats another lie. He was cheered when introduced, booed when he refused to give up the microphone.
Kerr said “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” is “destructive to our military policy,” and noted the Department of Defense discharges an average of two people every day “simply because they happen to be gay.”
As he continued, Kerr was booed by some in the debate’s audience. Cooper thanked Kerr for the comments, then asked Sen. John McCain of Arizona to respond.
Which was well after he had been introduced, well after he had said "and I’m an openly gay man"
With the fascists on this thread, I would fear for my personal safety - lunatics that they are.
Paranoid delusional. There's no need for me to destroy you dtl, you're doing quite a job all by yourself. Again, I'm heartened that your wounds are self-inflicted, and that you continue to feed your self-destructive rage with leftist propaganda. I sincerely hope you choke on it.
dtl: I was in the closet for many years. And I was a registered Republican.
Right. And you also sold a Macintosh to Bill Gates...
You ARE giving up your American citizenship, right? After all, if Amercia is SO bad...
Regardless, good luck in whatever country you land in. Make sure they have a good mental health care system.
It's pricks like fen that are the reason I'm leaving this shitty country.
Thank you, Fen!
Well George - I love New York. A lot. So I'm very happy in this city. If I cross the river - well - yikes.
But I have the opportunity to make a lot more money in Asia. And we all know that money equals happiness. At least it does for me.
Plus, they are less bigoted over there, since they're not Christian.
I'm not going to give up my citizenship.
And I'll continue to vote, making sure I register in a swing state.
Gotta love the hate seething out of every pore of fen's body. So Christian of him. Why does he hate gay people so much? What exactly is fen trying to hide? Oh yeah - that he loves to suck cock.
AL's 'Republican' questions seemed to be based on this article from the LA Times.
(Link, excerpt, and comments at Captain's Quarters)
The best they can do to show these *four* questions are linked to Republicans is a) the man who asked the 'protect my baby (gun)' question said he voted for Bush twice when interviewed and b) the 'will Arabs take you seriously Hillary' questioner has a MySpace page with photographs of Giuliani, Fox news commentator Bill O'Rielly, and a caricature of Barak Obama. No data on the other two questioners.
Not campaign volunteers, not issue activists, nobody on a campaign steering committee. One guy who (claims to have) voted for GWB and one guy with Giuliani's picture on his website.
This is what fen and his buddies really think.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1929693/posts
Wingnuttia for you. They are scared of gay people and want them to be banned from stores like Wal-Mart.
"Plus, they are less bigoted over there, since they're not Christian."
Good luck in Asia, DTL. I would be interested in your assessment of Asian cultures and the relative degree of bigotry after you have spent several years over there.
downtownlad: I'm not going to give up my citizenship.
Hypocrite. At least have the balls to take a stand. If you really believe "this is a shitty country" then renounce your citizenship.
You don't even have any evidence that the General was a Hillary supporter.
He agreed to participate in a Steering Committee she had on LGBT issues. So what? I would participate as well if she asked me, and I have no intention of voting for Hillary.
Sorry fen - I intend to exercise my right to vote so that it's no longer a shitty country.
Why is that so hard for you comprehend?
Now if you'd just go to Iraq and get beheaded or something, we'd be even closer.
I know very well what they say about gay people when they don't think there is a gay person in the room. And it aint pretty.
I do too, since I live in a very "red" section of a State in a rural area and there are many gay people who live here as well. No one says bad things about them or treats them with any disrespect. The lesbian couple who have a business of installing and maintaining sprinkler systems are in high demand and welcome in any social setting. The gay son of one of the ranchers is also a prominent person in the business community and a joy to have at any function and fun guy to have a drink with. The gay artist who holds pottery and scultping workshops has a waiting list of 6 months to get into his classes. There are many other examples in my little corner of the world.
You know what these men and women have in common and why they are a positive addition to the community? They don't whine about being gay/lesbian. They do their jobs and do them well. They are productive, postitive citizens who mind their own business and don't push any agenda's on the rest of the community. Live and let live.
So your example of the people you know, may have some reflection on yourself and your sour, whiney, bigoted personality. If I were to judge all gays by people such as yourself, it would be no wonder that there is a gay lashback.
Good luck in Asia, DTL
Asia? Good. Stay away from Europe. You might wander into one of the
Dar al-Islam zones and discover the true meaning of fascism and bigotry:
But what if instead the border comes to you? Not explicitly, but in a kind of demographic equivalent to the overlaid area codes of a North American metropolis. Amsterdam is the city of legalized pot and prostitution and a gay hedonist paradise. But it's also a Muslim city, overlaid on the pothead playground. At what point does the nice Dutch gay couple realize they've crossed a border? That, without getting their passports stamped or changing their currency, they're now strangers in a strange land. - Mark Steyn
Alphalib, they flubbed the research on a lot more than one questioner. They sold a "average Joe on You Tube" format then presented what, five, six, who knows at this point? questioners with connections to other campaigns and issue-based organizations. The GOP candidates handled it all just fine, and frankly, the Dems look cowardly to me if they can't face the same kind of framed questioning. They're free to point out what's loaded or spun or lacks logic in a question.
If you really believe "this is a shitty country" then renounce your citizenship.
Nah, not gonna happen. It's much more fun to stay, vote, comment on blogs, wage culture war, and piss you off, Fen. It's the American Dream!
SGT Ted,
Nah, he's just going to walk 12,000 miles...
Wow dust bunny queen - you're pretty blind about the bigotry gay people face in this country.
Probably because you're female.
Gays are second class citizens in half the states of this country, by way of state constitutional amendments.
Gays can not serve in the military and it is legal to fire people for being gay, deny them housing, etc in about 35 states.
And gays are 20% of the victims of hate crimes in this country, yet they are not protected by hate crime laws.
I can guarantee you that your gay neighbors care about this. But since you don't actually TALK to them, you'd never know.
Freepers: Proof that mental problems aren't confined to the DUers (which other group of losers someone mentioned in another thread here).
I can see it's going to go downhill around here--the writing's on the wall. References to both DUers and Freepers in the space of--what? an hour?
I think it's time I hauled myself out of here.
Beth: It's much more fun to stay, vote, comment on blogs, wage culture war, and piss you off, Fen. It's the American Dream!
Ha. ;)
Freepers are the mainstream of what's left in the Republican party.
And I highly doubt that any of the wingnuts on this thread finds anything that was said that in that freeper thread objectionable.
Fess up Drama Queen. You're not really leaving the country.
"And I was a registered Republican."
Bullshit.
And all those other countries that you say are better than the US? Who will they go to should they need help? War, natural disaster? Whatever?
The mainstream of the republican party isn't much if any different that the mainstream of America. You want to live in the world of caricatures, feel free. But no one will take you seriously. I really enjoy you throwing around the fascists comments in between wishing your political opponents dead. Your a self-refuting commentator. I guess that DOES save time. As was brought up sometime ago on another thread.....the reason no one likes you isn't because your gay. Its because your a asshole. Should things go to hell in your new country, I imagine you will be the first one banging on the American embassy gates, wanting fen to come out and save you.
Actually Fen I am.
But money is the main reason. The immigration policies are also less strict where I'm going, so its going to be much easier for me to have live in servants who come from third world countries. The minimum wage is extremely low and its very easy to exploit people, which is a good thing, and I plan on taking advantage of that.
Jeff - I was a registered Republican until about two years ago and I have about a 1000 blog posts that track my journey from disaffected conservative to my affiliation with the Libertarian party.
America is not the world's policeman. I believe George W. Bush said that once . . . .
If fen and dtl would just admit their love/lust for each other, book a room at the No-Tell Motel for a couple nights of loud and sloppy, this blog would be a lot more readable.
Beth: 1:54 rocks.
America is not the world's policeman
Oh cool. So which country has taken that burden from us?
/back on topic
Best one-liner: "If any more political plants turn up at CNN’s presidential debates, the cable-news network will have to merge with the Home and Garden channel." - Michelle Malkin
Something tells me fen is a bottom madisonman . . .
Thanks, Madison Man.
Now, DTL and Fen, "loud and sloppy" -- that's a whole other kinda dream.
You know what they say - there's no better sex than hate sex.
I thought Make-up sex was the best (Seinfeld-Costanza dialogue)
"Jeff - I was a registered Republican until about two years ago"
Bullshit. You are not just complaining about Bush. Not to mention the USA has been the world's policeman (like it or not) for a lot more than the last two years.
I would believe it if that was the only policy difference between us, but you have been on here for awhile now and EVERYTHING for you is sent thru your gay filter. Mailman doesn't deliver your mail until 1pm? He hates gays. Supermarket closes at 9pm in your neighborhood? They hate gays. No way you were a republican.
Actually Jeff - the Republican party only started hating gays officially under Bush.
Under Bush sr, Bob Dole, Reagan, those were people who actually didn't have disgust for gay people. Yes, you always had the religious right, but they didn't control the party. Until Bush.
You - a raging anti-gay bigot, can't possibly fathom how a gay person could be a Republican. Why? Because you're a typical Republican bigot.
But it didn't always used to be that way. Only when haters like you took over the party.
Downtown--
Be careful not to make too much money....that new poll says that the richer you are the more likely you are to be a happy Republican and maybe even a Christian, too.
I was a registered Republican until about two years ago
Which is interesting, considering that Bush called for a Constitutional ban on gay marriage prior to the 2004 elections -- over three years ago.
Santa Claus: Don't cry, Karen, Frosty the gayman is not gone for good. He just said he was moving away. You see, he was made out of Christmas snow and Christmas snow can never disappear completely. It sometimes goes away for almost a year at a time and takes the form of spring and summer rain and sometimes even a golden shower. But you can bet your boots that when a good, jolly December wind kisses it, it will turn into Christmas snow all over again.
Karen: Yes, but... He was my friend.
Santa Claus: Just watch. He'll be back. He can't stay away. And later I will tell you about another fictional who swore he would leave and never come back.
Karen: Who is that Santa?
Santa Claus: Why hdhouse with his big jolly belly and his autograph collection of Alger Hiss speeches.
Karen: He sounds scary Santa.
Santa Claus: Not scary Karen, just kind of sad and confused. But they are all gods’ children and we should be nice to them. Merry Christmas.
(Frosty the Snowman, 1969)
Santa Claus: Just watch. He'll be back. He can't stay away. And later I will tell you about another fictional who swore he would leave and never come back.
Karen: Who is that Santa?
Santa Claus: Why hdhouse with his big jolly belly and his autograph collection of Alger Hiss speeches.
LOL - Trooper; classic gold.
Beth - But CNN had to have received thousands of YouTube questions. How the hell did they manage to choose so many from people with institutional/organizational connections? I'm much more offended by their obvious rejection of the regular people, people who went to some trouble to compose a question and put it on YouTube, who thought they were really being asked to participate in the debate process. Fie on CNN for that.
Agree completely. There were over 5,000 submissions. 22 selectees. Less than one in every 250. And if you look at the ones CNN selected, very few were good questions from Joe Public on issues. CNN did several major sins:
1. Selecting a guy, Mark Strauss who knew CNN Staff, had been "undecided" when his video was selected in the Dem Youtube debate, got his next one in as a declared Obama supporter on Republicans encouraging Ron Paul & libertarians to split off.
2. Not only flew their gay general out, but alone of the contestents allowed the Hillary plant to stand up and further harangue the candidates - such was CNN's respect for his total moral authority to get special treatment.
3. Up to 7 of the questions came from Dem operatives.
4. And they managed to add a "troubador" who asked no question as he dissed several contestents in song and praised others. A professional cartoonist. Another gal from an organization that pays her PR efforts. And Norquist of the Cancerous Club for (CEO) Greed, who already has more access to candidates who are obligated to talk to the guy, and already have, than 99.999% of other Americans.
5. When not favoring Democrat plants or those with powerful clout from institutions, or professional entertainers, they selected wierd, disturbing people that CNN execs thought typified average Republicans.
"Everything anyone needs to know about you depends on how you answer this question about this book. This book!" (The shithead was unaware that some Fundies would be awful Presidents, non-Fundies have produced great ones)
What would Jesus do?
What do you have to say about my rebel flag.
Like my big bad gun lover's prop?
Less than 1/2 of the CNN finalists came from everyday people who were unaffiliated voters. Beyong disgraceful. I'd love to see what ended up on the cutting room floor and I suspect there will be a few more people ID'd that CNN used to discredit the Republican candidates and the deck stacking was so blatant that CNN cannot claim a mistake or two was made. This was too many to be simple errors or judgement lapses.
Google must be pleased as punch. Then again, maybe their two liberal billionaire Founders paid CNN to set it up that way.
DTL writes very well, and is a quick thinker. His debate style, however tends to concentrate on the personal (as in "I hate him/you/her").
He also is somewhat of a one track debater; everything revolves around his sexual proclivities.
Is it possible, DTL to acknowlege that CNN used different selection parameters for its UTUBE Dem debate than it did for its UTUBE Repub debate? And if you can acknowlege that, can you also acknowledge that the difference favored the Dem candidates.
Just askin'
I don't expect a straight answer, but will welcome one.
vnjagvet,
The questioners actually got very positive responses initially. Look at Michelle Malkin's initial reaction.
The "democratic" questions were actually very good ones. The republican ones tended to exacerbate the wingnut nature of the Republican party.
But the wingnut bloggers chose to create another false controversy about this debate. Who cares who asked the questions. They were enlightening.
I don't think this youtube debate was any different than the democratic one. The democrats had to answer a question from a snowman for Christ's sake.
Is it possible, DTL to acknowlege that CNN used different selection parameters for its UTUBE Dem debate than it did for its UTUBE Repub debate? And if you can acknowlege that, can you also acknowledge that the difference favored the Dem candidates.
DTL, you dodged the question...
DTL's answer is unresponsive, Fen. But I wasn't expecting much.
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