May 13, 2014

"Karl Rove has deceived the country for years, but there are no words for this level of lying... [Hillary] is 100 per cent. Period."

A Hillary spokesperson reacts to Karl Rove's planting of doubts about the soundness of Hillary's brain. Here's what Rove said:
"Thirty days in the hospital? And when she reappears, she’s wearing glasses that are only for people who have traumatic brain injury? We need to know what’s up with that."
I notice how overstated the reaction is — "no words for this level of lying"? What part is the lie? Was Rove wrong about the number of days in the hospital? (I think he was.) Clearly, she came out wearing some special glasses. Was Rove wrong in his characterization of the glasses? (Maybe not.) Certainly, it's fair to state that the public (and the prospective donors) need accurate facts about a presidential candidate's health. That is always demanded, and we've been misled by candidates in the past. (I'm thinking of Paul Tsongas.)

The overreaction makes me suspicious that there really is a problem. I don't like this how-dare-you-even-ask attitude. It makes me skeptical. But I do understand the alternative explanation: Stir up the base with stimulating outrage and a reminder that one ought to hate Karl Rove.

Here's a 1992 column by William Safire, puzzling over the case of Paul Tsongas:
The last time a dying man ran for president of the U.S. was in 1944.

Franklin Roosevelt was declared to be "in splendid shape" by his doctor, Adm. Ross McIntire. When the wartime president`s haggard appearance and quaking hands started rumors of his high blood pressure and weak heart, his press secretary prevailed on the FBI to investigate a doctor suspected of leaking the truth.

The story was squelched. I remember watching FDR campaign down Broadway through the rain, as if to demonstrate robust health; he died three months into his fourth term.

A generation later, Lyndon Johnson, fighting for the Democratic nomination, had his friend John Connally put out word that John F. Kennedy suffered from Addison`s disease, a glandular affliction requiring cortisone treatment.

Again a respected physician deliberately misled the public. Dr. Janet Travell described the serious ailment as a wartime "depletion of adrenal function from which he is now rehabilitated,"` and she helped Robert Kennedy cover up his brother`s treatment all during the 1960 campaign.

Perhaps a case can be made during wartime for a doctor surrounding a presidential patient with a "bodyguard of lies" to keep a commander-in-chief`s condition from the enemy.

But that does not excuse a dying president from hiding his illness to benefit his candidacy.
Of course, the opponents of a candidate are also tempted to lie. They may spread doubts about a candidate's vigor. I remember when Bob Dole ran for President in 1996 and there were endless jokes about how he was so old it was practically a miracle he still walked the face of the earth. It's 18 years later, and the man is still alive.

UPDATE: Karl Rove says: "Of course she doesn't have brain damage."
But Rove said that it is apparent that Clinton suffered "a serious health episode." He added that if she runs for president in 2016, "she is going to have to be forthcoming" about the details of where, how and when it happened.

145 comments:

Paul Zrimsek said...

I thought the word for that level of lying was "Clintonian".

Matthew Sablan said...

Rove isn't a doctor, so I think it is safe to say he's just spit balling. But, given the full exposure into the health of John McCain we went into during his campaign, I'd expect nothing less to the equal examination into Hillary Clinton's health.

Paco Wové said...

"Hey you amateurs, let the real pros show you how a proper point-and-sputter is done."

bad touch said...

Safire called HRC a "congenital liar"....remember that one?

St. George said...

Ah, the health of our leaders.

George Washington had surgery to remove an abscess on his thigh while president. No anesthesia. Hard recovery. A year later..the flu, pneumonia. Deathly ill. Had to have his carriage converted so he could travel lying down.

Grover Cleveland...secret major surgery at sea (!) to remove a cancerous tumor from his mouth. Kept secret. White House lied, until one of the doctors went public.

FDR...When he contracted polio (as a private citizen), his press agent lied to the papers, took a long time for the truth to come out.

Jackson was in wretched health.

Lincoln...depression, smallpox.

Kennedy...a basket case, so stoned at the Vienna summit Khrushchev thought he was a weakling. Had to be carried off Air Force 1 in DC on a stretcher.

Eisenhower's doctor misdiagnosed his heart attack; public never learned how bad off he was.

One of the reasons we still don't know where Obama was the night of Benghazi could be a medical issue.

rehajm said...

Clinton’s rep said, “Please assure Dr. Rove she’s 100 percent.”

In the world of Clinton where there's the necessity of parsing statements words and letters, 100 percent could mean anything, but it certainly isn't a definitive statement that she's healthy.

Larry J said...

Certainly, it's fair to state that the public (and the prospective donors) need accurate facts about a presidential candidate's health.

Did Bill Clinton ever release his medical records? Did Obama? We know his college transcripts are a bigger secret than the formula for KFC or Coke. Maybe that's why he goes after leakers so vigorously.

tim in vermont said...

Joe Biden had brain surgery for an aneurysm, and there is an old saying "once air touches the brain, you are never the same."

Look how that has worked out.

Paco Wové said...

"It's 18 years later, and the man is still alive."

Kind of like how the Democrats assured us that McCain would keel over dead the afternoon of Inauguration Day, leaving the country in the brutal clutches of Caribou Barbie.

(Not that McCain's clutches would have been an improvement.)

Henry said...

The overreaction makes me suspicious that there really is a problem. I don't like this how-dare-you-even-ask attitude.

Is Ms. Clinton recuperating on a yacht called "Monkey Business?"

Mark said...

Hard for Hillary! to have it both ways here. Her brain functions either were too impaired for her to appear before Congress or she lied about it.

She may be perfectly fine right now. What she can't say is that she was fine all along.

Hagar said...

Hillary! has a history of over-reacting with a heavy hand. when her opposition gets near to a sensitive subject.

tim in vermont said...

Remember how they went after Sarah Palin's medical records?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/sarah-palin-medical-records

Scott M said...

In the world of Clinton where there's the necessity of parsing statements words and letters, 100 percent could mean anything, but it certainly isn't a definitive statement that she's healthy.

This. In Clintonese, this could be argued down in court to mean, "I was talking about her decision for breakfast that morning, nothing more. She was 100 percent sure that she was going to skip the eggs and just go with the muffin and coffee."

Martha said...

Hillary does not look healthy. Since her mother died she has put on lots of weight, her hairstyle has morphed into an old lady look, her shriek is more shrill.

Let's face it. Monica looks better.

St. George said...

"When the Air Hits Your Brain: Tales from Neurosurgery" by Dr. Frank Vertosick...

Great book.

--

garage mahal said...

If Hillary has brain damage how is she supposed to remember the events surrounding #BENGHAZI?

Bob Ellison said...

I had not seen that 1992 Safire column about Tsongas before. Tsongas was a good man.

The whole candidate-health issue seems overblown to me. It hasn't been an issue in office since FDR. The candidates go through hell just vying for the nomination.

I'm not worried that Hillary won't be able to do the job as President. I'm more worried that she will be able.

rhhardin said...

Hillary belongs in Kliban's Home for the Unpleasant.

Bob Boyd said...

There may be a black mass in her head.

RecChief said...

I notice how overstated the reaction is


American Leftist SOP on every question that they don't have a good, well reasoned argument that can convince the other side through logic.

you're just noticing?

Scott M said...

The whole candidate-health issue seems overblown to me. It hasn't been an issue in office since FDR.

Kennedy's medical condition on 11-23-63 kinda affected his presidency.

Henry said...

Garage Mahal wrote: If Hillary has brain damage how is she supposed to remember the events surrounding #BENGHAZI?

Exactly! Accidentally, garage backs into the perfect talking point.

RecChief said...

But, given the full exposure into the health of John McCain we went into during his campaign, I'd expect nothing less to the equal examination into Hillary Clinton's health.

But she's a Democrat. Obama got a note from his doctor that said, "Uh, he's fine," without all the detail that was demanded of McCain. Kind of like Obama's college records and Harry Reid's and Nancy Pelosi's taxes.

Do you think that, with the whole of the 'war on women' playbook, Hillary!'s medical records will be held to higher or lower scrutiny than Obama?

tim maguire said...

Ahh...Paul Tsongas, the last Democrat I actually looked forward to voting for. But I didn't get the chance.

"[N]o words for this level of lying" sounds like a confession from the Hillary camp--Don't go there! Please don't go there. Please, please, please don't go there!

St. George said...

Then there's Reagan.

Alzheimer's has a 10-20 year incubation period before symptoms become so obvious that the person seeks medical attention or is taken to the doctor.

He wasn't the same man at the end of his second term as he was going in.

rhhardin said...

What if a brain injury left Hillary honest.

tim maguire said...

Paul, "Clintonian" is a very specialized word. The Clintonian lie is the statement that is crafted to deceive but that is, in some very precise, narrow way, technically true.

Tank said...

With Rove being an R and Clinton a D it's easy to miss how similar they are. Two people desperate for money and power, and willing to say anything and do anything to get it.

Rove is a lot more capable than Clinton (really, she'd be nothing without the Clinton in her name), but she has Bill, who is capable.

cubanbob said...

When a known liar calls someone else a liar.....

tim in vermont said...

"If Hillary has brain damage how is she supposed to remember the events surrounding #BENGHAZI?"

Exactly, that is the excuse she gave for not testifying. Good to see you are keeping up, Garage.

Bill R said...

Don't forget Thomas Eagleton who was George McGovern's running mate. Tom accepted the nomination and some days later revealed he had received shock therapy in a mental hospital.

McGovern pronounced himself "1000 percent for Eagleton" and soon after, dropped him from the ticket.

When politicians say "100 percent", it's a tell. They're lying.



Mark said...

My sister in law is coming off months of problems following a concussion, double vision and all sorts of complications that lingered on. Brain injuries can take a while to move past due to the complications, even something like a hard concussion.

Staying out of sight in hospital during that time of endless tests (and reconstructive plastic surgery) seems prudent when one is so high profile (and cannot cop to being to dizzy to testify before Congress).

Do this at your peril. A couple instances of quick wit and humor during debates and this story fizzles. Put indelicately, this story gets very insulting and could quickly erupt into the War on Women 3, revenge of the feminazis. The Clintons are just waiting to bring that term up again to pour like gasoline on the fire.

Tank said...

"Hillary is 100 percent."

=

"I have complete confidence in my coach and he'll be with the organization for many years."

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

In the world of Clinton where there's the necessity of parsing statements words and letters, 100 percent could mean anything, but it certainly isn't a definitive statement that she's healthy.

As for her health, “She is 100 percent. Period.”

I love how the reporter had to paraphrase to make the denial stronger.

Ah yes the Clintons. Last week we were talking about blowjobs and apologies and this week we are talking about health lies. "Everybody lies about health!" Will be next weeks topic.

Its time for the whole Clinton circus to crawl back to their trailer parks.

elkh1 said...

Brain damage proofs: Forgetfulness: "I don't recall."
Lack of judgment: "What difference does it make?"
Paranoia: "vast right-wing conspiracies".

Days in hospital, wearing dark glasses: face lifts, tummy tucks.

Bill, Republic of Texas said...

RecChief said...
I notice how overstated the reaction is


American Leftist SOP on every question that they don't have a good, well reasoned argument that can convince the other side through logic.

you're just noticing?

5/13/14, 8:18 AM

I only noticed this in Obama's first term but looking back it has been this way longer.

Rumpletweezer said...

Art Buchwald did a slide presentation at the University of Maryland in 1973. He showed a slide of Thomas Eagleton and said, "Americans were given a choice between a man who had had shock therapy for mental problems..." Then changing to a slide of Spiro Agnew, he continued, "...and one who hadn't."

AReasonableMan said...

Obama must be so happy that the wingers have shifted their lunatic imaginations towards the Clintons. The next two years could be pretty good for him. Obamacare's working and the economy has recovered.

Fen said...

"Reagan wasn't the same man at the end of his second term as he was going in."

Thats because he got shot.

Skipper50 said...

Perhaps this is Rove's answer to the drumbeat of lies from Harry Reid that get no pushback from the ol' "media".

rhhardin said...

Honest, adj, 4. [of women] Chaste.

Opinh Bombay said...

There is no way a Clinton would ever lie to us.

There is no way that Rove would ever play dirty politics.

Can't happen.

President-Mom-Jeans said...

"Obamacare's working and the economy has recovered."

Yeah, go with this as the campaign theme for 2014 (and 2016).

See how that works out for you, sport.

mccullough said...

Unlike Romney or Reagan, Hillary is an old looking 67. She is not fit and always looks tired. Bill Clinton looks like he's 80. From an optics standpoint, the Republicans should run John Thune. He's about a foot taller than Hillary and looks a lot younger and healthier.

Curious George said...

"AReasonableMan said...

Obamacare's working and the economy has recovered."

Hahahahahahaha. Better get the word out because all those Dems up for reelection in November act like Obamacare has the herps.

tailwind said...

When politicians say "100 percent", it's a tell. They're lying.

Yes, that's true. But it's easier to tell when they're lying by watching their lips move.

richard mcenroe said...

I don't know about the brain damage. But she made a big head start on the "soulless" bit when she married Clinton, and nailed it down solid when she slandered all those women for her philandering, perjuring husband.

Lying to grieving families over the coffins of their day was just a garnish for Hillary.

Hucbald said...

Brain cloud.

Michael K said...

From the Times piece you linked.

"The clot was potentially serious, blocking a vein that drains blood from the brain."

This is cavernous sinus thrombosis by the sound of it and not caused by trauma. The writer, of course, could be confused. The entire sequence was about a month, maybe not all in one hospital stay.

Michael K said...

ARM "Obamacare's working and the economy has recovered."

Have you had a brain scan lately ?

tree hugging sister said...

I guess they've also forgotten how worried they were about the blood flow to Cheney's head impeding HIS thought processes.

But he's a balding old white male.

richard mcenroe said...

"The whole candidate-health issue seems overblown to me. It hasn't been an issue in office since FDR."

Not true, Bob. Kennedy's Addison's disease, deceitfully denied during the 1960 campaign, may well have played a significant part in his conduct in office, partiuclarly during the Cuban Missile Crisis.

"Kennedy
John F. Kennedy's Addison's disease was probably caused by rare autoimmune disease
A Navy doctor's report sheds new light on the late president's medical records.
September 05, 2009|Thomas H. Maugh II



Email




Share



President Kennedy's Addison's disease, which came to light only after his election in 1960, was most likely caused by a rare autoimmune disease, according to a Navy doctor who reviewed Kennedy's medical records. The disease, autoimmune polyendocrine syndrome type 2, or APS 2, also caused Kennedy's hypothyroidism, according to a report published Tuesday in the Annals of Internal Medicine.

Hard though it is to believe these days -- when a celebrity's smallest sneeze is analyzed -- Kennedy's family and advisors were able to keep his medical history virtually secret. Kennedy, at 43 the youngest president ever elected, was portrayed as healthy and vibrant. In reality, he suffered various problems controlled by a daily regimen of steroids and other drugs.

"Addison's disease is characterized by the withering of the adrenal glands, which produce adrenaline and other hormones. Symptoms include fatigue, dizziness, muscle weakness, weight loss, difficulty standing up, nausea, sweating, and changes in mood and personality....

"...Kennedy took a host of drugs and other remedies during his presidency: 500 milligrams of vitamin C twice daily; 10 milligrams of hydrocortisone daily; 2.5 milligrams of prednisone twice daily; 10 milligrams of methyltestosterone daily; 25 micrograms of liothyronine twice daily; 0.1 milligrams fludrocortisone daily; and diphenoxylate hydrochloride and atropine sulfate, two tablets as needed." —LA Times

Add to that the stimulants such as Benzedrine he was running during the Crisis, and you have a major risk of a man with seriously impaired judgment, over and above the existing impairments caused by being a Kennedy and a Democrat.

Rob said...

Maybe these questions about her mental state come from the fact that she is a raging dipsomaniac.

Skeptical Voter said...

A lifetime of being a venal lying mendoucheous nasty minded person is bound to have an impact on a person's brain cells. Add to that a fall and a blood clot on the brain. Karl Rove may be wrong as to the etiology of HRC's brain damage, but at this point what difference does it make?

Rob said...

Maybe these questions about her mental state come from the fact that she is a raging dipsomaniac.

The Godfather said...

I think Rove is reading from the Harry Reid playbook: I've raised an issue, for which I have no evidence. That shifts the burden of proof to the other guy to show that I'm wrong.

Curious George said...

"Fen said...
"Reagan wasn't the same man at the end of his second term as he was going in."

Thats because he got shot."

He was shot a few months into his first term.

W. C. Taqiyya said...

Unless it's not, I think a concussion is a form of brain trauma. So, Rove is right about that. Plus, blood clots in the brain are never a good thing either. So, Rove is substantially correct in his concerns. Although Rove may have an unfortunate tendancy to stretch the truth, Hillary is not in good shape. I remember the media making a big deal about Nixon's blood clot in his leg way back when and Hillary has one in her brain. Do the voters really want to elect a person who could easily die at any moment? If that clot breaks free and passes into the heart, she can die. If it blocks a critical blood vessel in the brain, she can die or sustain brain damage. She may already have some brain damage. This is a newsworthy story, no doubt.

garage mahal said...

ARM "Obamacare's working and the economy has recovered."

After getting their asses handed on ObamaCare it sure looks like Republicans are in retreat mode. T'was a good try I guess.

Ann Althouse said...

"Hillary is 100 percent."

100 percent what?

Paul said...

Ah the Orwellian left.

Somebody called "A Reasonable Man" declares "Obamacare's working and the economy has recovered."

Perfect!

lge said...

There's a simple explanation. While she was in the hospital, for occupational therapy Hillary took up arc-welding, and she really got into it. Hence the spectacles.

Jay said...

AReasonableMan said...
Obamacare's working and the economy has recovered.



Laugh out loud funny

I still think you're a parody account.

cubanbob said...

Joe Biden had brain surgery for an aneurysm, and there is an old saying "once air touches the brain, you are never the same."

Look how that has worked out."

Where is the proof that Biden has or has ever had a brain?

Levi Starks said...

Oh there's a word all right, a word that people who've spent their lives lying wouldn't know.
It's called truth.

SteveR said...

40% plus would vote for Hillary in a "Weekend at Bernie's" mode so she's got that going for her.

gregq said...

garage mahal said...

ARM "Obamacare's working and the economy has recovered."

After getting their asses handed on ObamaCare it sure looks like Republicans are in retreat mode. T'was a good try I guess.



You are absolutely correct, Garage. The Republicans are losing on ObamaCare, and every Democrat should run on it.

Here's hoping every Democrat running for re-election in 2014 agrees with you.

Paul said...

"After getting their asses handed on ObamaCare it sure looks like Republicans are in retreat mode."

The hits keep coming!

Marshal said...

Paul said...
Ah the Orwellian left.

Somebody called "A Reasonable Man" declares "Obamacare's working and the economy has recovered."

Perfect!


Premiums are higher, deductibles are higher, networks are smaller, the mandate has been illegally "waived", and it's covered 3-5 million of the supposed 45 million previously uninsured. I suppose "working" in this context simply means money is being spent on it.

And when the unemployment rate was 40% less than the current rate but under a Republican president that performance was unacceptable and all jobs were McJobs.

Maybe someday someone on the left besides Althouse will make a comment that isn't solely public propaganda.

Original Mike said...

On what planet has the economy recovered?

William said...

In the annals of sick Presidents, no one can top Woodrow Wilson. He had a full on stroke and managed to keep it secret. His loyal wife was, in effect, our first female president........There's been no sign of mental deterioration on Hillary's part. Her wish to receive communion at the Harvard Satanic Mass is not a symptom of mental changes but rather a wish to appeal to her base.

Unknown said...

I don't think this is about running for President. I'd bet its about Benghazi. AIR, HRC fell just in time to avoid testifying. This seemed fishy at the time, but contradiction was impossible. I'm guessing Rove is figuring there is no downside here. If HRC was always just fine and the fall was minor, she's at best a "scaredy cat", maybe even a liar. If there really was a fall and she had serious injuries, say a stroke, there are real questions about her health. If she had a fall and is just fine now all HRC/the Dems have done is get back to zero.

Scott Anderson said...

And yet, Ann will still vote for her.

Harold said...

"Martha said...

Hillary does not look healthy...

Let's face it. Monica looks better."

Monica's not my type, at all. But let's face reality. Was she ever NOT better looking then Hillary? The answer, IMHO, no.

William said...

Well, the stock market has recovered. When that happens under a Republican, it's illustrative of how the rich get richer. Under a Democrat, it shows how the economy has recovered........"it's the economy stupid." How does this present economy compare with the one Clinton disparaged in his run?

Beldar said...

We're all of us dying every day. Period, no exceptions. No one gets out alive.

But the rate is important, the imminence of completion is important, the fitness to do the work of the living while still among them is important.

Telling the truth while still alive is important.

And truth and the Clintons are bitter, long-standing enemies of epic, cosmic proportions.

Fritz said...

New economics numbers came out today, and a revision of the growth makes it negative for the last quarter. One more quarter to go and the democrats can run on their very own recession:

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/05/13/u-s-economy-contracted-in-first-quarter-latest-figures-show/?mod=WSJBlog&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Archie said...

The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Brennan said...

Ms. Clinton seemed rather spry in Las Vegas. I'm not sure what Karl Rove is drinking, but I won't be having what he's having.

The better Republican political strategy is to have Hillary want to run and to have all the Democratic challengers get out of the Clinton's way. You really don't want the Democrats developing their bench by trying to make 2016 a contest in the primary.

tim in vermont said...

This is what economic recovery looks like to "a reasonable man."

I would hate to see what it looks like to an "unreasonable" man, because that is error margin away from "negative growth."

"Real gross domestic product (GDP) rose 0.1 percent at an annual rate in the first quarter of 2014, following the 3.4 percent annual pace in the second half of 2013."

Source WhiteHouse.gov

grackle said...

Joe Biden had brain surgery for an aneurysm, and there is an old saying "once air touches the brain, you are never the same."

Scary, because I recently had brain surgery. One possible side effect: I have lost my desire for nicotine. Puzzling, but I'm glad. I was surprised also by the weakness and tiredness. Not a specific muscle-group weakness, which would indicate neurological impairment, but rather a general overall weak feeling kind of like if I was recovering from flu. I'm much better now and getting stronger everyday but I was thinking just after, "What the hell, why am I so weak?"

Kennedy's family and advisors were able to keep his medical history virtually secret.

When you have a lot of money it's easier to keep stuff secret. Plus JFK marked the beginning of the MSM's long love affair with Democrat politicians.

I think Rove is reading from the Harry Reid playbook: I've raised an issue, for which I have no evidence. That shifts the burden of proof to the other guy to show that I'm wrong.

The tactic has been employed since there was such a thing as politicians. It can be very successful.

There's a story about Lyndon Johnson when he was running for office in Texas. Johnson told an associate to go out and tell people that there was no truth to the rumor that Johnson’s opponent had a habit of fucking goats. The associate asked “Won’t that make some people think that he has sex with animals?” Johnson nodded assent. “But we KNOW that isn’t true!” exclaimed the associate. “Yes,” replied Johnson, “But I want him to have to deny it.”

Paul said...

"Well, the stock market has recovered."

Actually it's in record territory.

And foodstamps are also in record territory.

So is the percentage of people not participating in the labor force.

Basically the super rich and well connected and the wards of the state are the ones doing well in this Obamanation.

The great middle is taking it in the rear. Without even the courtesy of a reach around.

Big Mike said...

I see that the Unreasonable Man, backed by garage, are trying to morph this thread into a thread about Obamacare instead of a thread about whether Hillary Clinton has a serious brain issue. They'll probably succeed; they have lots of experience at hijacking threads. But let's not cooperate with them.

This post, and yesterday's post about Glenn Thrush paint a picture of a thoroughly paranoid Clinton operation that consists of a cadre of Clinton loyalists who absolutely fear and distrust anyone not already part of the cadre. I think that may explain why the "reset" button was so mistranslated -- why trust a professional translator when you can drop the job on a loyalist?

Scott M said...

On what planet has the economy recovered?

The latest revised info shows that we actually contracted in the first quarter. IF this happens again in the second quarter...why...that's two consecutive quarters of economic contraction.

And that is known as...anyone?

(two answers are acceptable and only one of them is "an electoral bloodbath")

garage mahal said...

Bravo
Echo
November
Golf
Hotel
Alfa
Zulu
India

Bruce Hayden said...

“Yes,” replied Johnson, “But I want him to have to deny it.”

Note that Harry Reid, and his people, have yet to deny the repeated claim that he is a pedarest.

Bob Ellison said...

I have had one major brain injury. It knocked me out for maybe half an hour when I was about 21. My doctors say vaguely that when they try to figure out what causes my grand mal seizures, that brain injury is the main candidate.

I would not vote for myself for POTUS.

But Hillary seems fairly healthy.

I've got plenty of other reasons to oppose her. Don't let's mess up the argument by wondering whether she's got a cold, or something.

She's a liar, a calculating bitch, and an awful person. She is not fit to serve as dog-catcher.

AReasonableMan said...

This is a great graph on Obamacare and, of course, Benghazi.

Drago said...

ARM and Garage: "Obamacare's working and the economy has recovered."

Yes, as ARM and Garage demonstrate, there are really people this stupid.

Our economy shrunk, as predicted, in the first quarter of 14.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/05/13/u-s-economy-contracted-in-first-quarter-latest-figures-show/?mod=WSJBlog&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Carney tells us emails regarding Benghazi are not about Benghazi.

ARM and Garage tell us that a "recovered" economy is one that is shrinking.

ARM and Garage tell us that obamacare is working and the dems are running on it all the while every dem is running away from it and Hagan in NC is actually running ads accusing the republican of being for it!

Could you come up with a better example of classic left-wing orwellian thought?

I think not.

Except perhaps for the lefties at MSNBC now spinning like crazy and telling us that Orwells "Animal Farm" is actually about income inequality and not the inevitable, unavoidable totalitarian end results of leftist policies.

Perfect.

Simply perfect.

From Inwood said...

Scott

The economy is 100%.

From Inwood said...

Scott

Hil's response to Benghazi was 100%

From Inwood said...

Scott

Monica's response to Bill was 100%

Mark said...

"Obamacare's working and the economy has recovered."

Which goes to show that AReasonableMan at least spouts his points honestly.

Look, there are two things Dems on tickets this year don't want to talk about; the economy in general and Obamacare in particular. Every venal one of them would sacrifice Hillary!'s future to save their own seats.

Sure, at Team Hillary! there may be hope that she somehow gets some sympathy votes if the Republicans come across as witch hunters. But in the trenches this fall expect to see roast Hillary on the menu.

gregq said...

Scott M said...

The latest revised info shows that we actually contracted in the first quarter. IF this happens again in the second quarter...why...that's two consecutive quarters of economic contraction.

And that is known as...anyone?


That would be known as "The ObamaCare Recession."

AS in "why should everyone want ObamaCare repealed? Because it drove the US into a recession."

You Democrats run on ObamaCare. PLEASE, run on supporting and extending ObamaCare.

mikee said...

"Clintonian" lies have two common definitions, the first of which is the technically correct by completely dishonest answer, and the second of which is the baldfaced lie that happens every time a Clinton opens their mouth, as in, "Hillary Clinton opened her mouth and said something. It was Clintonian."

Will said...

"It depends on what the definition of 100 is"

"It depends on what the definition of percent is"

"It depends on what the definition of 'slept through the 3am phonecall' is"

richard mcenroe said...

My feelings for the Clintons and the Democrat Party are 100%

Big Mike said...

@Inwood, I would say that Bill Clinton was 100% in on Monica. All the way, folks.

William Chadwick said...

Well, if there is one group of people who won't tolerate lies and deception, it's the Clintons and the Clintonistas!"

(Rove, if you have a cat, keep it guarded!)

Mark said...

I notice the Sullivan piece ARM links relies heavily on the "Benghazi is only important to nutjobs" meme.

It might work. If I were a Democratic operative I'd worry about a potential tipping point.

Original Mike said...

74% of ObamaCare enrollees already had health insurance. Yeah, it's working all right.

Placeholder said...

The reason people cared so much about the carbunkle on the side of McCain's head is because of who he picked as his running mate.

gk1 said...

The butt hurt of the denial proves Rove hit a bulls eye. I didn't realize the Clinton camp was so easy to rattle this early in the game. She won't run. She's too brittle and the big money boys are figuring this out now.

Brando said...

If the 2016 election produces no decent presidents--and I am betting it will produce a spectacularly terrible president--then at least it better be entertaining. I want to see a knock down, drag out brawl, an election to be remembered as nasty as the 1860 election, with insinuation and lies and gaffes and insults flying everywhere. I want to see reputations tarnished like never before, debates that are reduced to three word shouting matches, advertisements that amuse and anger but enlighten not one bit.

Entertain us, fools! You'll provide nothing else so at least give us that.

AReasonableMan said...

Mark said...
It might work. If I were a Democratic operative I'd worry about a potential tipping point.


Similar to what happened with Vince Foster?

Crazy Jane said...

I always figured she decided to take medical leave so as to avoid the Benghazi repercussions.

tim in vermont said...

Talk about anything but negative GDP growth, eh ARM?

You really think it is going to get swept under the rug?

Scott M said...

Similar to what happened with Vince Foster?

No soup for you until you address the problem your "recovery" claim has with a first quarter that retracted. I suppose you based your claim on previous numbers without that correction, in which the economy grew at .1%?

tim in vermont said...

More economic news about the "recovering nicely" economy ARM is so excited about: .01% rise in retail sales.

How can we be bouncing around at near recession level numbers without hearing about it at the top of every newscast?

Oh, that's right, President is not a Republican.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/us-retail-sales-rise-scant-01-percent-april-23693546

Jay said...

Incorporating the new data, J.P. Morgan Chase on Tuesday estimated GDP contracted at a 0.8% rate in the first quarter. Macroeconomic Advisers put the contraction at 0.7%. Barclays Capital predicted a 0.6% decline. Pierpont Securities estimated output fell at a 0.4% rate. Action Economics estimated a 0.2% decline.

Totally improving, right ARM?

Ellis Weiner said...

You're thinking of Paul Tsongas? I'm thinking of Ronald Reagan.

amielalune said...

Ann: Expect a LOT of "how dare you even ask" from Hillary's crowd over the next few years.

AReasonableMan said...

Unemployment claims are back to pre-Great Bush Recession levels.

Exports have recovered and have recovered faster than imports reducing the trade deficit.

Private sector jobs have increased significantly under Obama, similar to Reagan, but have recovered from a much worse recession, the Great Bush Recession.

The unemployment rate continues to fall after peaking during the Great Bush Recession.

Deliquincies and foreclosures continue to decline but have not yet returned to pre-Great Bush Recession levels. The Great Bush Recession continues to act as a drag on the economy.

Negative equity continues to decline although, again, the negative effects of the Great Bush Recession still linger.

Rusty said...

.01% economic growth, ARM.
In the first quarter of 2014.
That isn't a 'recovery'. that isn't even treading water. There has to at least 2.5% growth for that. .01% is called losing ground. More than 80% of the 'jobs created' were part time jobs. Offering no benefits.
You aren't an honest broker in this marketplace of ideas,ARM.

Original Mike said...

Great Bush Recession. You need to find a more gullible crowd to peddle that nonsense, ARM.

mccullough said...

Hillary was exhausted and gained weight as Secretary of State. If she couldn't handle the stress of that job, she's not up to being POTUS.

tim in vermont said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
tim in vermont said...

What is the workforce labor participation number like ARM?

Anybody can make unemployment go down by outwaiting the unemployed until they have been unemployed so long they don't count anymore.

AReasonableMan said...

Original Mike said...
You need to find a more gullible crowd


No you guys are gullible enough. As sharp as butter knives. Is there anything funnier than a Bush voter complaining about the economic performance of literally any other president, except of course for Hoover?

holdfast said...

When you consider population growth through immigration, both legal and otherwise, flat growth is really negative growth.

When you consider how many people have left the workforce, and how workforce participation as a percentage of working-age population is at a three decade low, that rosy unemplyment rate looks like a bad joke. Nevermind increasing under-employment tied directly to the strictures of Obamacare.

Garbage Mahal said...

Charlie
Oscar
Romeo
Romeo
Uniform
Papa
Tango
Oscar
Charlie
Romeo
Alfa
Tango

Chuck said...

I saw this on The Flintstones. If Hillary gets boinked on the head a second time, she'll be okay.

But the problem is that if she gets boinked on the head a THIRD time, then she forgets everything all over again.

So we just need the Secret Service to make certain that the boinks on the head are always an even number.

treeofmamre said...

So the question remains, does Hillary have brain damage, or is she just damaged goods? The latter seems more accurate. However, given that she is truth impaired, who knows the real answer.

rehajm said...

Not only is the economy still weak, expectations of what a 'good' economy is have decreased (here).

(The chart is most telling- notice the years of the period of below trend economic growth.)

Marshal said...

AReasonableMan said...
pre-Great Bush Recession


I'm a little confused about his moniker. He's quite open he's a shill uninterested in anything but propaganda. So how does that market niche fit with the "Reasonable" brand? Needs a marketing consultant.

chickenlittle said...

ARM wrote: Private sector jobs have increased significantly under Obama, similar to Reagan, but have recovered from a much worse recession, the Great Bush Recession.

Yet it's still mourning in America. We mourn something lost economically on Obama's watch, perhaps never to return. And he doesn't care -- he just wants the the deck chairs redistributed.

Original Mike said...

@ARM: The "Great Bush Recession" was years in the making. Bush's shame is he didn't do all he could to stop it. But he sure didn't start the process.

Thing is, we know you know this. Why do you do what you do?

tim in vermont said...

" Is there anything funnier than a Bush voter complaining about the economic performance of literally any other president, except of course for Hoover?"

You are the one bragging about negative GDP growth. That is pretty darn funny, if the economic news itself isn't.

garage mahal said...

Is there anything funnier than a Bush voter complaining about the economic performance of literally any other president, except of course for Hoover?

It goes way beyond W. The systemic circumstances just happened to blow up under his watch. And, Obama, quite frankly, sucks on the macro level. [No leadership, luke-warm attitudes on labor, neo-liberal advisers, etc].

AReasonableMan said...

One good thing can be said about the Bush/Greenspan economic meltdown, it has provided the ideal blueprint for everything one might never want to do to an economy.

Ken Mitchell said...

After I had a minor stroke ten years ago (my neurologist says that NO stroke is ever "minor") I had to get glasses with a fairly hefty prism correction, because suddenly one eye pointed down by about a degree from the other. My level of correction isn't visible. If Hillary's glasses need so much correction that she needs a Fresnel prism, then she is SERIOUSLY brain-damaged.

Bob Loblaw said...

It's fun to cast Obama as an economic martyr who inherited something so bad that not even he could fix it. No one has had it as bad as our poor unfortunate Barry!

An honest review of history shows that Bush inherited a worsening economy from Clinton, the tech bubble. In fact, Bush had to deal with two doozies early in his first term: the tech bubble pop and 9-11. Then towards the end of his second term he had the housing and credit bubble pop. To be fair, Bush had it just as bad as Barry, and like Barry, muddled through it without implementing any real structural improvements.

tim in vermont said...

So it is still "blame Bush" then. Good luck with that.

Brando said...

What exactly did Bush do to cause the financial collapse and downturn? I constantly hear people blame him for it yet have not once seen anyone point to a specific policy of his that caused it. How did Bush convince so many buyers, sellers and investors that house prices would always go up? How did his policies cause the economy to stagnate?

I think it's also unfair to blame Obama for the downturn he inherited, and while his health law and other regulatory initiatives have if anything been bad for the economy it certainly doesn't do enough to explain why the economy is still so sluggish. If anything, the problem is due to larger long term forces (loss of major industries to overseas competition, increased personal debt eating up spending power, greater worldwide demand for resources causing energy prices to rise) than any presidential policy.

Blame either of these guys for the deficit or the handling of the government--those are things they have much more influence over. But acting as though Bush tax cuts or Obama appointees have actually screwed up the entire economy makes only slightly more sense than blaming them for the Redskins terrible record.

tim in vermont said...

It was amusing to watch Morning Joe this morning and see them never quote Rove's actual words, and to make it about making fun of somebody for wearing glasses.

Yeah, a good part of that microscopic audience of theirs is people who are looking for a laugh at their expense.

Fen said...

"An honest review of history shows that Bush inherited a worsening economy from Clinton"

And lets not forget that the Clinton economy was fueled by the "peace dividend" from the Cold War ending.

Rusty said...

AReasonableMan said...
One good thing can be said about the Bush/Greenspan economic meltdown, it has provided the ideal blueprint for everything one might never want to do to an economy.

Which the current administration then did. With great enthusiasm.

ARM and garage wax profound on things economic. Comedy ensues.

Rusty said...

I think it's also unfair to blame Obama for the downturn he inherited, and while his health law and other regulatory initiatives have if anything been bad for the economy it certainly doesn't do enough to explain why the economy is still so sluggish.

Yes it does. Capital is sitting tight for just those reasons.

(loss of major industries to overseas competition,

A symtom of the above mentioned causes.

A large degree of uncertainty has been introduced into the marketplace. Mainly due to this administrations policies. Investment and innovation abhor uncertainty. Therefore thos things settle in places and institutions where there is more certainty.

AReasonableMan said...

An honest history is given by Bruce Bartlett in the book 'Traitor'. Anyone defending Bush's economic record should first read that book. It is a devastating take-down of Bush's economic cluelessness by a fellow Republican.

Jay said...

Now this clown is linking to a blog that is repeating the "Bush recession" meme over & over.

Further, when you've been reduced to citing the U/E rate - does this clown even know how it is calculated? - while ignoring that fact that there are fewer people working in America today than there were in 2008 and 800,000 people left the workforce last month alone, you know you are dishonest.

Jay said...

AReasonableMan said...
Is there anything funnier than a Bush voter complaining about the economic performance of literally any other president, except of course for Hoover?


Actually, yes, your links to some blog pretending that a declining labor force participation rate (do you even know what that is?) is indicative of an "improving" economy.

The fact of the matter is you could not, if there were some lotto type grand prize, point out what, exactly, President Bush did to enable this "Bush recession" you are incoherently blathering about.

Never mind the fact that you merely pronounced ObamaCare "working" and couldn't bother yourself to even begin to defend such idiocy.

Probably because of stories such as this:

Consumers losing doctors with new insurance plans

Hot of the Associated Press. Note: you and garage are the only people here who link to blogs for "facts"

Want to guess why that is?

B said...

Want to guess why that is?

Because both ARM and garage are members of the 'marching morons' core that the progressive leadership equips with undefensible talking points and then pats them on the fannys to get them moving in, well, any direction. There is never anything but schmuck info being babbled out that when you track it back leads inevitably to some unsubstantiated opinion stated by some other marching moron that morphed into a meme and then to a 'fact'. Its like a idiocy generator stuck in positive feedback.

This is why you do not click a garage or ARM link. Watch a kids show with your kids or grandkids instead. The creativity is more coherent and the logic less fanciful than the garage/ARM level.

AReasonableMan said...

Jay said...
Note: you and garage are the only people here who link to blogs for "facts"

Want to guess why that is?


Because we are aware of what experts have to say on various issues?

Jakob Kotter said...

Just wondered about your name, alt is other so what is the other house do you have royal relatives that split off and your from the other house or is it the little house out back behind the big house?