February 19, 2014

"Loving cats may not make a person a liberal, but it does increase the odds that a person already is one."

Increases the oddsthe data show — but nowhere nearly as much as agreeing with the statement "I’m proud of my country’s history" increases the odds that you are a conservative.

133 comments:

Scott said...

It' is a survey of 200,000 Time readers. It can't possibly be scientific.

The Crack Emcee said...

"I’m proud of my country’s history"


That statement DOES speak volumes, doesn't it?

Sam Hall said...

I love cats.
Slow cooked in a sweet and sour sauce is best, but in chili works also.

Tarrou said...

Well, keeping an animal in captivity to assuage one's psychological shortcomings is pretty well in line with liberal thought.

As for pride in one's history, that really is the basic dividing line between left and right, whether or not they think their own culture is a good idea. Right-wing is basically those people who like people and policies in radiating concentric circles from them, family, friends, neighbors, fellow citizens. Leftists like anyone who isn't like them, who opposes their own culture.

The Crack Emcee said...

Tarrou,

As for pride in one's history, that really is the basic dividing line between left and right, whether or not they think their own culture is a good idea. Right-wing is basically those people who like people and policies in radiating concentric circles from them, family, friends, neighbors, fellow citizens. Leftists like anyone who isn't like them, who opposes their own culture.

Interesting, since I wrote that, and I'm a Republican.

I'd say the dividing line is between those excluded from the nation's most brutal hardships and in denial about it (whites, who the country was made for) and those who have to live with it, party be damned.

Racism isn't a Left or Right issue - it's a black and white issue - because whites refuse to acknowledge what they're doing is exactly what those hated racists of the past expected of them. Enjoying their advantage at others expense. They can walk away - if they want - or "help" if they decide to, something blacks can't be so cavalier about because, naturally, it's our relatives we're discussing. They're not an either-or concern, except to conservatives who consider their "radiating concentric circles" more real or important than our own.

Conservatives are actually worse in this regard because, while libs may only pretend to fix what ails us, conservatives don't even do that. They just say we're playing "victims" - as they heckle us unmercifully.

Sick folks, those,…with a really sick history.

How it can be admired - when whites a rely deal with it at all - will have to fall to someone smarted than I,...

Paco Wové said...

"Loving cats may not make a person a liberal, but it does increase the odds that a person already is one."

Liberalism is like toxoplasmosis, then?

DEK said...

I have never met a liberal cat.

The Crack Emcee said...

This was our history for longer than it's been anything else.

Tell me where the pride is in it.

And, please, don't say it's in ending it because 1) blacks themselves were the reason for that, and 2) ending it doesn't ignore all the lives lost (and their descendants) all the wealth lost (generations without an inheritance of any kind) and the fact whites have been hostile, ever since, to the very idea of redress.

Tell me where the pride is in it.

B said...

The Crack Emcee,

There are two ways to interpret "I'm proud of my country's history."

1) We did terrible things for the majority of it. What's to be proud of?

2) Everyone around the world did terrible things, and most still do. America has been at the forefront of ending those terrible things and advancing freedom for 200+ years.

The Crack Emcee said...

B,
Everyone around the world did terrible things, and most still do. America has been at the forefront of ending those terrible things and advancing freedom for 200+ years.

Except for those she hurt herself. She went and fought Hitler while lynching blacks was in full-swing here.

It's a lie whites want - and want credit for - at other's expense,...

B said...

The Crack Emcee,

I get it. You wish the progress was monotonic and morally consistent. We made progress in one area and made moral lapses in others.

I think that's an unreasonably high standard you're asking for.

Gahrie said...

I am a conservative, I love my country, I own two cats, and have owned cats all my life.

ALP said...

Its a useless concept to begin with. You don't get to pick the country you are born in. The very idea that you could have pride in something so far out of your control is bizarre to me. I can only relate pride to processes I have participated in, and was able to influence the outcome.

The Crack Emcee said...

B,

I think that's an unreasonably high standard you're asking for.

I could've swore I wrote "the dividing line is between those excluded from the nation's most brutal hardships and in denial about it (whites, who the country was made for) and those who have to live with it, party be damned."

My standard is only "unreasonably high" because whites make it so.

The Crack Emcee said...

I mean, if you can name another group of Americans who have, and have had, a vested interest in keeping blacks down - so they can feel better about themselves - let me know.

Giving that up is what's "unreasonable" for whites,...

Gahrie said...

Tell you what Crack...name a Black run country that treats its common citizens better than America treats its Black citizens, where they have a higher standard of living or just shut the fuck up.

B said...

You're fixated on white/black relations and ignoring the sum of American history.

a vested interest in keeping blacks down - so they can feel better about themselves

You're like those who believe the rich want to keep the poor poor. You see malevolence where ignorance or indifference is a more plausible explanation. It's a belief I can't argue with. I hope one day you stop hating white people.

elkh1 said...

Liberals are catty and flighty, they love pets that are catty and flighty.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

I don't get the cat thing. Where is it in Heinlein? Farnham's Freehold? Anyway, the line is "A dog is a slave; a cat is a free citizen."

Admittedly, an indoor-only cat is the sort of "free citizen" that starts yowling for free food three hours before feeding time, but that's because he can't get outdoors where all the birds and rodents are.

Is the correlation just that cats are less work than dogs? They certainly are; give them food, water, a decently clean litterbox, and a warm place to sleep and your work is done. Dogs involve labor. They are also messier, smellier, more likely to tear stuff up or to foul your nice, pristine living room.

I found that entire quiz bizarre. It pegged me (correctly) as pretty conservative, but I got "liberal points" for being a cat owner and for being interested in what they deliberately didn't call "fusion cuisine."

Oh, and for preferring the MMA to Times Square. That one particularly mystified me; I can't see any reason to visit Times Square that doesn't involve booze and hookers, whereas the MMA is all about dead white European males, classic conservative stuff. If your favorite music is Haydn string quartets, which place would you be more likely to visit?

(I noticed that the last time we discussed this here -- at least, I think it was here -- a number of people misremembered the Times Square/museum question as about MOMA. It wasn't; it was the Met. Not [mostly] modern art.)

The Crack Emcee said...

Congrats, eric, you made the cut,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Gahrie said...
Tell you what Crack...name a Black run country that treats its common citizens better than America treats its Black citizens, where they have a higher standard of living or just shut the fuck up.


This again? Whites need some new racist defenses because the Top 10 is getting old:

Let's say I do - or don't - what difference will that make to the crimes America's committed against it's own people?

None.

You just want to change the topic because you can't face the truth:

You're the descendants of slavers, protecting their and your interests, still.


The Crack Emcee said...

B,

"You see malevolence where ignorance or indifference is a more plausible explanation."


Really? Guy runs you over with his car, and then becomes "indifferent" to what he did - you're going to claim that's not malevolent?

elkh1 said...

CE: Keep thinking that and pout. People have a tough time living their own lives. They can't waste their time to conspire against you.

Each and every ethnic group was discriminated against, heard of the Chinese exclusionary act? Each and every group struggled to get ahead. But blacks believe their poverty pimps, community organizers and wallow in perpetual grievances.

Some companies are afraid to hire black workers for fear if they were fired, the companies would be sued. So they hire the minimum number of blacks to get EEOC off their backs. It's about time for so-called black leaders and activists to consider other people's fear, justified or not.

Oh, we don't support Obama because he is incompetent, and a hypocrite. He rewards his white billionaire cronies with taxpayers' billions, then tells his black supporters that he fights income inequality. If blacks cannot see beyond the color of one's skin, how do they expect whites to see beyond theirs?

The Crack Emcee said...


Gahrie said...
Tell you what Crack...name a Black run country that treats its common citizens better than America treats its Black citizens, where they have a higher standard of living, OVER ONLY THE LAST 35-40 YEARS, or just shut the fuck up.

FIFY

The Crack Emcee said...

"blacks believe their poverty pimps, community organizers and wallow in perpetual grievances."


Can anyone else spot the non-racist vocabulary of the modern racist yet?

If not, there's your first lesson,...

B said...

How does that anecdote reinforce your claim that whites have a vested interest in keeping blacks down so they can feel better about themselves?

You can't see how extreme your position is.

The Crack Emcee said...

elkh1,

If blacks cannot see beyond the color of one's skin, how do they expect whites to see beyond theirs?

I love it - you won't stop being racist until we get over acting like you racists have forced us to behave.

You're a hoot, man!

Leave the hood at home,...

The Crack Emcee said...

B said...
How does that anecdote reinforce your claim that whites have a vested interest in keeping blacks down so they can feel better about themselves?

Another white racist Top 10 tactic - take two mentioned phenomena, and then mix them up in a way the black never intended, so you can spit them back at the speaker charging HIM with speaking racist nonsense.

Drago just pulled that one yesterday, too.

See? You all are repeating the same answers any racist would, but expecting blacks not to group you together.

The answer is to try not talking like racists for a change,...

Seeing Red said...

Cat ladies. Not a surprise.

The Crack Emcee said...

Why is it Eminem can talk all day and never offend blacks but you guys can't?

JPS said...

Crack Emcee,

"[America] went and fought Hitler while lynching blacks was in full-swing here."

I'm going to guess you know this, but Joe Louis was asked why he would enlist in the segregated Army, and fight for a racist America. His response: "Lots of things wrong with America, but Hitler ain't gonna fix them."

The black people I know best are friends I've made in the present-day Army. Men and women who think America's ideals are worth defending, despite the grievous, systematic betrayal of those ideals that racism and racial atrocities represent. That those ideals are still worth living up to, that our country is still trying, and that we're better off defending it than giving up on it and cursing it.

The Crack Emcee said...

JPS ,

The black people I know best are friends I've made in the present-day Army.

I knew Joe Louis personally.

I served and feel betrayed.

I was betrayed.

That none of you, aware of this history, has an answer for that says all you need to say.

Fen said...

I mean, if you can name another group of Americans who have, and have had, a vested interest in keeping blacks down - so they can feel better about themselves - let me know.

Blacks do.

You're living proof. You don't want equality, you want a righteous cause to rant against. If tomorrow, skin color became no more relevant than hair color, you would be sad.

Also, really stupid of you to lump "whites" all together. Study a little history and you'll see "white" is a collection of subgroups that all oppressed each other.

Robert Cook said...

"You're fixated on white/black relations and ignoring the sum of American history."

Hmmm...aside from the matter of our having been a slave-holding country for more of our history than not, there's the genocidal extermination of the Indians and the imprisoning of the survivors on reservations.

And today, we find our government is spying on every one of us and on as many people around the world as it can, purportedly for "national security" (what does that even mean?), but, in truth, in order to be able to clamp down on "we, the people," and, among other things, to spy on private business activities in other countries. We're also killing and torturing people around the world, and our own citizens are no longer exempt from becoming victims of "executive order."

We're also, and still, as MLK stated decades ago, the greatest purveyor of violence in the world, in service to our trying to rule it.

That said, I can be proud of the principles espoused in our Declaration of Independence and the rights guaranteed to the people in the Constitution--ignoring for the moment that those rights are not only no longer guaranteed but have been left in shreds, essentially non-functioning--as well as those persons and movements that have arisen here and there that have tried--with some successes and some failures--to force the country to live up to its espoused principles or to extant law.

Most things to be proud about in our country's history are those things fought for and won by the people, not those things merely "promised" by the founders.

Oh, I like dogs and cats.

Shanna said...

Cat ladies. Not a surprise.

Yeah, did they control this 'study' for sex? If not, it's useless.

Seeing Red said...

We are Americans. We never know our history and Europeans like pointing that out.

Some know we have some important documents that are over 100 years old. People like Andrea Mitchell think we and Iran had a decent relationship until Boooosh.

John Lynch said...

Black Americans are as American as anyone. They've been here longer, and economically the capital that allowed the United States to industrialize came from exporting cotton. And that was a product of slavery. We all benefit from the consequences of slavery.

After centuries of living here Black Americans aren't very African anymore. They're something new and different. This is where they live, there's nowhere else for them to go. They aren't immigrants. This is their homeland and it's completely unfair to treat them any other way. Black Americans aren't "others." They have as much right, or more, to live here as anyone. Comparing them with Africans is nuts. No immigrant group is compared with their original home after three or four hundred years. They're American.

Black history is American history.

Andy Freeman said...

> You're the descendants of slavers, protecting their and your interests, still.

Actually, I'm not.

In addition, I'm a descendant of folks who died to set slaves free.

If there's a debt, it's owed to me.

There are the blacks who are not descended from slaves. If it was about slavery, they'd be excluded.


John Lynch said...

And cats are child surrogates. No wonder cat owners tilt liberal, because they have fewer children.

Fen said...

I get it. You wish the progress was monotonic and morally consistent. We made progress in one area and made moral lapses in others.

Don't be too generous. When's the last time you heard Crack lament what America did to the native americans? He's a racist. Tribal. His only concern is for his kind.

Whites, on the other hand, have risked family and fortune to not only free the blacks, but to support their civil rights. Alot of them died doing it.

Can anyone point to a black man who stood up for an oppressed race other than his own?

John Lynch said...

Fen-

You mean like this?

The Cracker Emcee said...

There's cat owners and there's obsessive cat owners. Anecdotally, the latter seem to be mostly single woman. It's hardly surprising they're liberal.

B said...

Another white racist Top 10 tactic - take two mentioned phenomena, and then mix them up in a way the black never intended, so you can spit them back at the speaker charging HIM with speaking racist nonsense.

My "malevolence" comment was a direct response to your statement that whites have a vested interest in keeping blacks down - so they can feel better about themselves.

You took it out of context and gave me an anecdote about a racist monster that dragged a black person to their death. I never denied incidents of violence motivated by racist malevolence existed.

You mixed two phenomena. I'm just trying to get us back on topic. Try to justify your claim that whites have a vested interest in keeping blacks down - so they can feel better about themselves.

By the way, you just implied I was a racist because you misconstrued the argument I made. So thanks for that. You're making it really easy for me to believe you harbor some deep irrational hatred of whites.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

John Lynch,

Black Americans are as American as anyone. They've been here longer, and economically the capital that allowed the United States to industrialize came from exporting cotton. And that was a product of slavery. We all benefit from the consequences of slavery.

If you believe this, you also must believe that Barack Obama is not a "Black American," because his own biography diverges from your narrative in every particular. He was not a slave or the descendent of slaves. His Black father was not here before (say) my mother's German immigrant family, indeed was barely here at all.

John Lynch said...

MDT-

Yeah, during the 2008 primary I said exactly that.

No one cares, though.

Mitch H. said...

What the hell happened to Crack? I mean, he was always a crank, an obnoxious atheist, and a bore on the subject of cults, spiritualist bullshit and Mormons - but he wasn't this frothing race-obsessed bigoted asshole who's been stomping about since the comment-thread reboot last year.

Stroke? Lyme's Disease? Whatever the hell happened to Andy Sullivan?

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

Seeing Red,

We are Americans. We never know our history and Europeans like pointing that out.

Some know we have some important documents that are over 100 years old. People like Andrea Mitchell think we and Iran had a decent relationship until Boooosh.


It's not nice to make fun of Ezra Klein like that. Though it remains tempting.

The Crack Emcee said...

Andy Freeman,

I'm a descendant of folks who died to set slaves free.

If there's a debt, it's owed to me.


Wrong - your descendants made a choice to fight - a choice mine didn't have.

God, white people are self-servingly racist,...

Clyde said...

On a rational basis, it makes no sense. Liberals like to tell others what to do. This makes them perfect dog owners, since a well-trained dog will do what it is told to do. A cat, however, does what it wants. Cats are libertarians. Liberals should be extremely uncomfortable with those disobedient, free-thinking cats!

John Lynch said...

No, cats are just dumb.

The Crack Emcee said...

B,

I'm going to start with your last statement first:

You're making it really easy for me to believe you harbor some deep irrational hatred of whites.

Except for the word "irrational" you've got it - it's called "defensive racism" - disliking someone's race for what they did or may do to you. With this history, there's nothing irrational about it.

My "malevolence" comment was a direct response to your statement that whites have a vested interest in keeping blacks down - so they can feel better about themselves.

It just occurred to me how stupid I feel debating with people who don't understand the topic of racism. I mean, my answer to this is "Really?" You don't know what white superiority is? Then we don't need to talk - you're too unqualified.

The Crack Emcee said...

Mitch H. said...
What the hell happened to Crack? I mean, he was always a crank, an obnoxious atheist, and a bore on the subject of cults, spiritualist bullshit and Mormons - but he wasn't this frothing race-obsessed bigoted asshole who's been stomping about since the comment-thread reboot last year.

Stroke? Lyme's Disease? Whatever the hell happened to Andy Sullivan?


You guys crack me up - try white racism, you moron.

Oh yeah - whites NEVER go there, at all cost, no matter what.

Blacks must be crazy.

And you're pure as the driven snow,...

Ignorance is Bliss said...

As far as I've been able to find, I have no ancestors who were slave owners, and some who fought for the North in the Civil war. While I think everyone in this country should be grateful that such people fought for that just cause, none of that credit flows down to me just because I'm descended from them.

Just as, if I were descended from slave owners, none of their guilt would flow down to me. People are responsible for their own actions. They are not responsible for the actions of others who happen to share some superficial characteristic.

The Crack Emcee said...

Ignorance is Bliss,

"As far as I've been able to find, I have no ancestors who were slave owners, and some who fought for the North in the Civil war. While I think everyone in this country should be grateful that such people fought for that just cause, none of that credit flows down to me just because I'm descended from them."

Why should it? They decided to fight wrong and deserve credit - why should you get some? You should be proud of their contribution, and continue their fight (which you could get credit for) but get credit for their actions? No.

"Just as, if I were descended from slave owners, none of their guilt would flow down to me."

Oh, please - there is no aspect of American life untouched by slavery. So there's no aspect that didn't profit. Unless you are fighting it, you are part of it, now and forever more - that's what this is all about. What is America going to be?

"People are responsible for their own actions."

So if whites collectively create a climate where blacks can be killed, but only a few people do the actual killing, everyone else is off the hook? Man, you guys are GOOD.

"They are not responsible for the actions of others who happen to share some superficial characteristic."

If they don't try to stop it - when they know it's the defining feature of their race - yes they are.

You're supposed to be Americans.

John Lynch said...

What matters is how people act now, and part of that is viewing the past honestly. Things happened. Very bad things. Slavery. Murder. Conquest.

Oddly enough, the best discussion of slavery I ever had in college was in an economic history class. There was a reason people kept slaves- because it benefited the slave holders enormously. And the productivity of the slaves was rising all the way until the Civil War. After the war, the South didn't recover economically until World War 2. The system was that dependent on slave labor. That goes a long way toward explaining why so many Southern whites were willing to die for slavery.

You can't cherry pick from history if you want to be honest. The most partisan historians tend to not be very knowledgeable about anything other than the small section of history that buttresses their case. The more that you want the past to prove, the less honest you're going to be. People can be extremely educated but have enormous self-inflicted gaps in their knowledge.

The past is as complex and messy as the present. When we look at the past we have the benefit of hindsight, but we also have the hindrance of our ideological baggage.

The Crack Emcee said...

You guys do realize all you're arguing for is having no responsibility for the country - the country you're claiming to be proud of - don't you?

You don't want to claim it's racism, fight it's racism, or deny it's racism's effect on others - you just don't want to be the ones to do anything about it.

You'll leave the heavy lifting to blacks, as always.

Like I said, whether slaver or abolitionist, you're no different than your ancestors,...

Fen said...

Whats sad is that Crack represents the upper tier of intelligence for his race.

What do you clock in at Crack? 110?

The Crack Emcee said...

Mr. Lynch, I honor you, and thank you for your seriousness toward this issue.

I almost want to cry,...

sunsong said...

I love animals, as a rule. I have two cats, have had dogs over the years, would love a donkey and think that elephants are grand and amazing.

mccullough said...

Crack,

Putting aside Native Americans, it's true that no other group has had it worse and continues to have it worse than blacks.

But since blacks are about 12 percent of the population, nothing will change. Basically, it's been about the same for the last 20 years. Whites want to feel that they and their friends aren't racist and so most discussions are either about whites accusing other whites of racism or whites saying blacks have never had it so good and should be grateful they aren't in [insert African country here].

At this point, most of the arguments relating to minorities are about gays and gay marriage.

Seeing Red said...

Shanna, they probably have cats because they're not having sex.

The Crack Emcee said...

Fen,

What do you clock in at Crack? 110?

Don't know. All I can tell you is I was raised by people who came out of this, but my bloodline is filled with people who talk like this. I was reading at a high level pretty early.

My IQ's probably pretty high - but especially on the subject of race,...

William Chadwick said...

Always good to hear from Mensa, "Crack."

But getting back to the subject of cats . . . Besides the
Heinlein quote someone has already referenced, there is an interesting passage in one of Albert Jay Nock's books in which Nock sees a spiritual link between cats and people who love liberty. On a less erudite note, I remember comedian Orson Bean--around the time he ditched the Left and became a libertarianish conservative--doing a bit on the Merv Griffin show about cat-lovers being the great untapped conservative voting bloc. Maybe things have changed.

For what it's worth, I'm a libertarian (one of those weirdoes who believe his life and property belong to himself and not to Obama or the rest of the Hive), and I love cats. I like dogs, but I love cats.

The Crack Emcee said...

mccullough,

Since blacks are about 12 percent of the population, nothing will change.


I know - they're hopeless - but that's all the more reason to scream:

This is the best we can do.

It'll never change in my lifetime.

The racists win,...

Mike said...

Crack is is racist for me to hold the belief that (1) I never discriminated against any man, black or not?

Or to say (2) my family history is one of immigrants who not only did not own slaves, they worked to end the slave trade?

Because I'll tell you, there's no changing the past. It is what it is. My grandparents were poor farmers and orphans of Native Americans. There's no inherited guilt here (and there wasn't money either from these ancestors). How do I have any stake in keeping Blacks down? How would I even do that? Granted most of the black people I work with -- or for -- are nowhere near "down" and partake, as far as I can tell, fully in the American Dream.

In the end, doesn't the change these individuals achieve count for something? No group is monolithic, certainly not Whites or Blacks. We've always had a rich diversity, even in Colonial times when many free Black men worked to secure our separation from Great Britain.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

Oh, please - there is no aspect of American life untouched by slavery. So there's no aspect that didn't profit. Unless you are fighting it, you are part of it, now and forever more - that's what this is all about.

Fighting slavery? It seems a little odd that I have to tell this to a black man, but that fight is over. Fighting racism? I'm working on it, right here, right now, but don't seem to be having much success.

So if whites collectively create a climate where blacks can be killed, but only a few people do the actual killing, everyone else is off the hook? Man, you guys are GOOD.

We all live in a climate where anyone can be killed. If I contribute to a climate that makes blacks more likely to be killed, then I am responsible for my contribution.

If they don't try to stop it - when they know it's the defining feature of their race - yes they are.

It is the defining feature of my race- the human race. It is something that has been done by pretty much every culture and every ethnic group that has had the power to do so.

Gahrie said...

You'll leave the heavy lifting to blacks, as always.

Like I said, whether slaver or abolitionist, you're no different than your ancestors,...


Fuck you.

John Lynch said...

Crack-

Thanks.

It bothers me when Black Americans are seen as foreigners in their own land. That's a uniquely racist perspective that doesn't bear any scrutiny at all, yet remains an unconscious bias in the American population.

That's why I don't like the term "African-American" because it sounds like we're talking about first generation immigrants, which is ridiculous. It's been 400 years.

A problem conservatives have is that they claim to be color blind, but then treat their fellow Americans as some sort of foreign colony when it's convenient. The "real" America doesn't include Blacks, even though in reality there never was a time when that was true. We're all here, and we've all been here since the beginning.

mccullough said...

Agree with him or not, a lot of comments directed at Crack are very defensive about the subject of race.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

The Crack Emcee said...

...it's called "defensive racism" - disliking someone's race for what they did or may do to you.

Speaking of the Top 10 racist defenses getting old...

Gahrie said...

Agree with him or not, a lot of comments directed at Crack are very defensive about the subject of race.

No..they are a perfectly valid response to the bullshit he is dishing out.

He is being offensive, boorish, and (using a leftist term)...practising a form of McCarthyism.

Seeing Red said...

People still read "Time?"

Seeing Red said...

For the record, Crack, I'm extremely proud of Thomas Edison and his electric bulb. I'm positively puffed up when I think about what he and Tesla did for the 1893 Worlds Fair, something that makes the world a better place.

annk said...

Location, location, location. People who live in big cities don't have room for dogs. Who else lives in big cities? Liberals.

(Says I, a staunch conservative with four kitties and no dogs.)

Fen said...

Whites want to feel that they and their friends aren't racist and so most discussions are either about whites accusing other whites of racism or whites saying blacks have never had it so good

Actually, whites don't discuss race much at all.

The Crack Emcee said...

Mike,

Crack is is racist for me to hold the belief that (1) I never discriminated against any man, black or not?

It's not racist, it's ignorant. We all have. The question is what we do with it.

Or to say (2) my family history is one of immigrants who not only did not own slaves, they worked to end the slave trade?

Again, not racist, but that absolves you of nothing. Racism is still here - on this thread. Our job is to finish it.

Because I'll tell you, there's no changing the past.

Nope.

It is what it is.

Yep.

My grandparents were poor farmers and orphans of Native Americans. There's no inherited guilt here (and there wasn't money either from these ancestors).

Then I'm fighting for you as well.

How do I have any stake in keeping Blacks down?

Are you fighting to lift us up? Your stake? Our success is tied - we're a country.

"How would I even do that? Granted most of the black people I work with -- or for -- are nowhere near "down" and partake, as far as I can tell, fully in the American Dream."


Do you know them well enough that they'd tell you? Or is it like Duck Dynasty, where no black would dare?

In the end, doesn't the change these individuals achieve count for something?

I'm sorry - which individuals? The change I'm looking for is in black lives - they're the oppressed - if that happens, I could care less if whites ever get over themselves.

No group is monolithic, certainly not Whites or Blacks.

You sound reasonable so I'll say this one more time:

I only started down the white/black road because the racists were doing it - I've been trying to prove a point - but the only point anyone seems to grasp is that to call people white/black is racist. They still don't grasp that's what whites, generally, do.

We've always had a rich diversity, even in Colonial times when many free Black men worked to secure our separation from Great Britain.

Oh, please - there weren't that many "free black men". At the beginning, slaves almost always outnumbered settlers - which is why violence was necessary,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Ignorance is Bliss,

You've got a good name for your outlook.

Fen said...

Putting aside Native Americans, it's true that no other group has had it worse

Thats pretty lame considering Native Americans were almost exterminated.

"Putting aside John Booth, the play was really awful"

The Crack Emcee said...

Ignorance is Bliss said...
The Crack Emcee said...

...it's called "defensive racism" - disliking someone's race for what they did or may do to you.

Speaking of the Top 10 racist defenses getting old…


Only racists think we're morally on the same plain, so what blacks do - to defend ourselves from whites - is equal to what whites do to us.

Perpetuating racism - that's what you're all about,.

John Lynch said...

Cats are an ecological menace. Dogs are the solution.

The Crack Emcee said...

Seeing Red,

For the record, Crack, I'm extremely proud of Thomas Edison and his electric bulb. I'm positively puffed up when I think about what he and Tesla did for the 1893 Worlds Fair, something that makes the world a better place.

Why not be? I'm an American and proud of it, too.


Lewis Howard Latimer (1848-1928)
Were there any African-American muckers? The son of an escaped slave, Latimer overcame poverty and racism in his scientific career. While working for Hiram S. Maxim, a competitor with Edison, Latimer patented his own improved method to make carbon filaments. From 1884 to 1896 he worked in New York City for the Edison Electric Light Company as an engineer, draftsman and legal expert. Latimer later joined the Edison Pioneers, a group of old Edison employees--its only African-American member. Since he never worked with Edison at the Menlo Park or West Orange laboratories, however, he is not technically a "mucker." As far as we know, there were no African-American muckers.


I'm ashamed of the racist shit, and you should be, too.

Seeing Red said...

Sorry, LMAO at whites calling people racist. For the last z5 years that's been jammed down the country's throat by out betters.

The Crack Emcee said...

Fen,

Actually, whites don't discuss race much at all.


Which is why they sound so stupid trying to defend themselves - they don't know what they're even doing. So they treat people trying to help like shit, because they're too defensive to accept they fucked up.

Like the people who fired my friend.

Whites need to get on the stick and stop being assholes,...

Fen said...

Red, Blacks are the most racist demographic in America. According the FBI hate crime stats.

You're prob one of those Sophisticated folk who think blacks can't be racist ...because they are black?

Ignorance is Bliss said...

The Crack Emcee said...

Perpetuating racism - that's what you're all about,.

And yet...

...only one of us is defending their being a racist.

The Crack Emcee said...

Fen,

You're prob one of those Sophisticated folk who think blacks can't be racist ...because they are black?

Didn't I just tell you I'm practicing defensive racism?

Dude, you really need toy go talk to those whites you know who don't understand anything.

Fen said...

Crack: Which is why they sound so stupid trying to defend themselves

Stupid to who? People like you? As you've spent the last 3 racial thread beclowning yourself (even threatening violence against white), your judgement is not reliable.

You realize most people here are just trolling you? You're like the New Age Guru coming here to demand we acknowledge the power of crytals. At some point, making fun of you trumps being just plain old mean.

The Crack Emcee said...

Ignorance is Bliss

...only one of us is defending their being a racist.

Bullshit - you're doing it more than anyone. A denial of racism - when we all agree this is a racist country with a racist history - is to perpetuate it.


You're the one who admitted whites don't talk about race - how do you know anything, Fen?

If you don't discuss it, read the lit, and make the effort, then how do you know you're not a racist?

Fen said...

You're the one who admitted whites don't talk about race - how do you know anything, Fen?

Because of lovely little 2 Minute Hate discussions like the one we're having here.


how do you know you're not a racist?

How do you know you're not a racist, Crack?

The Crack Emcee said...

Fen,

Your judgement is not reliable.

And the man who said "Actually, whites don't discuss race much at all" has the expertise?

You're an idiot, Fen, and too stupid for me to have this discussion with,...

Fen said...

And I wish you were intelligent enough to learn how to atrib quotes properly. Lemme guess, thats Whitey's fault too?

Fen said...

You're an idiot, Fen, and too stupid for me to have this discussion with,...

Says the racist that assumes I'm white.

Fen said...

Why have you radicalized yourself? Justification for something you are about to do? If I cared about you, I'd ask the FBI to look in on you.

We're not going to read about you in Wapo, are we? "Angry Man Shoots Down A Dozen White Women And Children"

These little racist rants of yours only confirm my stereotypes of american blacks. We have to treat you with kid gloves or you will "go ape" and start breaking things and people.

I think you should check yourself in to a mental facility and get some help. Seriously.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

The Crack Emcee said...

Bullshit - you're doing it more than anyone. A denial of racism - when we all agree this is a racist country with a racist history - is to perpetuate it.

Could you point to a comment I've made that denies racism, or in any other way defends it?

SJL said...

I hate cats. I am allergic to them. And I am a Libertarian....Republican....Independent....but not a Liberal.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

The Crack Emcee said...

Only racists think we're morally on the same plain...

You are morally on the same plane as other racists. If you don't like that moral plane, choose another, and act accordingly.

Why is that so hard? Aren't we all Americans? Think it through.

Lonetown said...

The real question is do the cats love you?
Cats can be quite discerning.

The Crack Emcee said...

Ignorance is Bliss,

Could you point to a comment I've made that denies racism, or in any other way defends it?

You're defending yourself, when you have no defense.

Ignorance is Bliss said...

So it should be easy for you to point to such a comment.

B said...

Are you fighting to lift us up? Your stake? Our success is tied - we're a country.

I actively oppose the war on drugs, stop and frisk, and California peace officer's bill of rights. All policies that disproportionately hurt blacks.

What have you done to lift up whites?

Shouting Thomas said...

Another day of Mau-Mauing from Crack.

The addiction to Mau-Mauing is what caused his failure, but he can't stop.

Successful Mau-Mau-ers get a job in the Diversity department of a university or corporation, from whence they make big bucks delivering Crack's idiot lecture to a captive audience of resentful white folks.

Crack is a whore who gives it away for free.

Which tells you something about what you're dealing with here. Damaged goods. Can't even sell his Mau-Mauing to the quota system, like a sensible black racist.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

John Lynch,

Cats are an ecological menace. Dogs are the solution.

Indoor cats are not a menace to anything more "ecological" than the furniture. (Well, OK, I do need to close the door to the room the Aerogarden's in, or they'll eat hell out of the basil, but you know what I mean.)

President-Mom-Jeans said...

Crack pimping his website is about as sad as the "make 92 dollars an hour at home" spam.

Even sadder, is that those spammers probably make some money from their rantings, while Crack continues on in squalid poverty.

Wait, did I say sad? I meant amusing.

Fen said...

So Crack's lectures haven't really been about racism? He was just whoring out for linkbait on his blog? For the advertisers?

Fen said...

I hope not, because promoting racism and division for cash is pretty fucking low. I think Hell has its own circle dedicated to that one.

The Crack Emcee said...

B,

What have you done to lift up whites?


That's like asking why there's not a white Miss America pageant - what are we going to lift you up to?

Instead of the top, the tippy-tippy-top?

Birkel said...

As a Native American, I am really sick and tired of The Crack Emcee's bull shit.

Get out of my country, bitch.

Shouting Thomas said...

Everybody's sick of Crack's bullshit.

You got any ideas on how to get the fool to shut up?

The internet, unfortunately, is everywhere, so getting the fool out of the country won't help.

EMD said...

You're the descendants of slavers, protecting their and your interests, still.

Fuck off. My ancestors died on battlefields outfitted in blue and bathed in blood.

EMD said...

Since blacks are about 12 percent of the population, nothing will change.

The only thing changing will be the percent, since the black population seems gung-ho on self-extermination via abortion and black-on-black murder.

Yes, I know, that is a horribly racist statement of reality, isn't it?

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

EMD,

Fuck off. My ancestors died on battlefields outfitted in blue and bathed in blood.

I can't claim that; my great-grandparents came here too late. But they lived in rural Wisconsin and really didn't have a lot of opportunity to oppress anyone.

(Ditto my husband's Scotch/Irish family.)

I do not understand why people innocent of racial oppression ought to be considered guilty of it. Whiteness isn't a crime nor a sign of guilt.

Michelle Dulak Thomson said...

EMD,

The only thing changing will be the percent, since the black population seems gung-ho on self-extermination via abortion and black-on-black murder.

That, OTOH, is uncalled for. Black abortion rates are higher than non-Black rates, but the Black birth rate is at least at replacement level. And, yes, the murder rate for Blacks is higher than that for non-Blacks, and the killers are almost always also Black. But we are not talking self-genocide here. The numbers aren't remotely that high.

The Crack Emcee said...

"The numbers aren't remotely that high."


Counting does seem to be difficult for these guys, as they keep referencing the Civil War when the country abandoned blacks right after that, and then reconstructed slavery through Jim Crow laws for another 100 years.

Where were your relatives, bathed in blue and blood, then?

Probably heckling blacks for being poor,...

The Crack Emcee said...

There you go, Fen:

You're a loser,...

Birkel said...

And now black people feel free to ignore their presence in my people's ancestral home that was stolen from us. While we were put on reservations you continue to ignore us.

You probably heckle our living conditions, deprivation and begrudge our affirmative action. Go away, The Crack Emcee. In the historical grievance contest my people are 'better' victims than yours.

ken in sc said...

Crack, you are soaking in poison and hoping it will make us white people feel sick, or at least as bad as you do. It won't work.

Roadkill said...

Ha, Althouse. This is why I was disappointed and disillusioned that those labs you feature are not yours, and why I always figured you were a cat person.

EMD said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
EMD said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
EMD said...

So back to cats ... my favorites are bicolor, like piebald or tuxedo cats.

The Crack Emcee said...

ken in sc said...
Crack, you are soaking in poison and hoping it will make us white people feel sick, or at least as bad as you do. It won't work.


The funny part is, you think that's something new, when it's par for the white course. That's why everyone hates you. Go on, be aloof:

You're losing, you will lose, and I'm laughing at every "crack" in the white facade.

You remember when I used to defend whites - what'd I get for it?

Trayvon Martin. Jordan Davis. Mitt Romney. Ted Cruz. Rand Paul.

Fuck you guys.

You're worthless,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Oh, and I almost forgot:

I also got one election loss after another - every one of them because you Mr. Know-It-Alls insisted on betting on the loser.

Just as your "culture" is now,...

The Crack Emcee said...

Famous last words on Althouse - the Romney election:

"Go on, get out of here, Crack - WE DON'T NEED YOUR VOTE ANYWAY!!!"


BWAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!

EMD said...

But we are not talking self-genocide here.

Time will tell. Any black political power will continue to evaporate, though.

EMD said...

Where were your relatives, bathed in blue and blood, then?

Probably heckling blacks for being poor,...


Damn. I was hoping to keep the Negro Poverty Lampoon Society a secret!

Birkel said...

Note to anybody still reading this thread:
The Crack Emcee is unable to respond to a Native American while he lives, apparently unashamed, on land stolen from my people.

It's a two color world to The Crack Emcee because he can only see his own perceived financial interests. Fuck you, The Crack Emcee.

The Crack Emcee said...

Birkel said...
Note to anybody still reading this thread:
The Crack Emcee is unable to respond to a Native American while he lives, apparently unashamed, on land stolen from my people.

I don't know if Meade is reading this, but I'm pretty sure he can confirm that I'm currently residing with a Native American Navy buddy, so fuck you, you brainwashed fool.

My nickname growing up was "Papoose" because my foster father was Native American.


Wanna tell me again what you THINK you know about me again?

You're really all mental midgets,...

PowderSpringsCityCouncilWatch said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
HoodlumDoodlum said...

The "pride" question really rests on an implicit comparison between nations and cultures across history - either with another nation or with an ideal. If an American is not proud of American history, fine, but of what nation's (or people's) history could they be proud? What seems to rankle each side is the difference in emphasis--a leftist might say "America failed to live up to it's own/some objective ideal in the following ways" while a rightist might say "America's history is not perfect but other nations failed to live up to the American/some objective ideal to a greater degree in the following ways." Arguments about this topic when framed in this way tend to involve talking past one another.

The Elder said...

I like dogs more than cats AND I’m proud of my country’s history.

I already knew I am conservative. If these two statements indicate it, that I am proud to be a conservative.

Birkel said...

The Crack Emcee:
So your defense is to say you live witha Native friend and your step-father is Native. Nicely played, idiot.

Tell me again where you allowed, above, people about whom you assume to know so much to use the "not guilty because of my associations" excuse. Were any of the above posters excused by you because they do mot personally discriminate? No! You hold them all guilty because their perspective, gained by their respective experiences, does not coincide with your own.

Fuck that. You set the rules. I am merely following them. You are guilty of taking possession of my lands and you cannot assuage your guilt easily. You must admit your thought crimes and repent. Only that and no less is acceptable.

Tarrou said...

@ Emcee,

You want the dirty, shameful secret of slavery? It enabled black americans to live in the most progressive and wealthy society on earth. I do not in any way defend slavery, discrimination or Jim Crow, they were all horrible crimes against humanity. But the end result of all that tragedy and suffering is far superior to the result of all the tragedy and suffering in, say, Rhodesia. And that is why I am proud of my nation's history (and not a conservative, incidentally). Because our system has produced better results than anyone else, for virtually everyone in the long run. I don't have to deny the warts to appreciate the triumph.

HoodlumDoodlum said...

But Birkel, some of Crack's best friends...nevermind.