October 31, 2011

Are the NY police relying on criminals and lowlifes to break down the protest in Zuccotti Park?

Excellent reporting by Harry Siegel at the NY Daily News:
Most of the working groups have been clustered at the east end of the park....

Most of the non-participants in turn pitched camp west of there, as far as possible from the workers. That dynamic reinforced itself, as occupiers nervous about their possessions and safety slept by their equipment and each other to the east, while the carnival crowd kept to the other side of Zuccotti....

The police, whom many occupiers see as the enemy and who work under a mayor who’s made no secret of his distaste for the occupiers, have little reason to help them maintain order, and rarely seem to have entered the park over the last week for anything short of an assault....

But while officers may be in a no-win situation, at the mercy of orders carried on shifting political winds and locked into conflict with a so-far almost entirely non-violent protest movement eager to frame the force as a symbol of the oppressive system they’re fighting, the NYPD seems to have crossed a line in recent days, as the park has taken on a darker tone with unsteady and unstable types suddenly seeming to emerge from the woodwork. Two different drunks I spoke with last week told me they’d been encouraged to “take it to Zuccotti” by officers who’d found them drinking in other parks, and members of the community affairs working group related several similar stories they’d heard while talking with intoxicated or aggressive new arrivals....

“The police are saying ‘it’s a free for all at Zuccotti so you can go there,’” said Daniel Zetah, a member of several working groups including community affairs. “Which makes our job harder and harder because the ratio is worse and worse.”
Read the whole thing. It's fascinating sociology: the little society that has grown up within Zuccotti Park. It reminds me a bit of "Slouching Towards Bethlehem," Joan Didion's account of of Haight-Ashbury, which describes the decline of what was supposed to be a Utopia.

And what of the police strategy Siegel seems to uncover? I can't say what is really going on, but suppose the police (and the Mayor) decide that it's too difficult — too much effort and too much bad press or too legally confusing — to oust the protesters from Zuccotti Park, and instead they encourage criminals and lowlifes to move in and prey upon the idealists and naifs.

135 comments:

Hagar said...

I do not know about City Hall, but a person likely to apply for a job as a police constable probably does not see much difference betwen the groups.

ndspinelli said...

Unleash the hounds! Hells Angels @ Altamont[OWS is a lesser scale] comes to mind.

TWM said...

"encourage criminals and lowlifes to move in and prey upon the idealists and naifs."

Criminals and lowlifes don't need any encouragement in this regard. It's what they do. It's what they have always done.

In a way this is a good thing. Maybe this experience will bring some reality into the world of these "idealists and naifs" which is a nice way of saying spoiled babies.

edutcher said...

Wouldn't be the first time.

Back in the good old days of Prohibition, the cops didn't investigate when the bootleggers killed each other off, as long as there was no civilian involvement.

Pastafarian said...

What exactly is this clear defining line between protester and low-life, between occupier and "carnival crowd"?

Is it based on race, or educational level, or appearance/attire?

If it's based on behavior, where do the idiots banging on bongo drums at ear-splitting levels for hours at a time belong?

These are some of the most elitist socialists I think I've ever seen. And they seem awfully protective of their own private property, considering that their whole point is to try and pry some away from someone else.

Shouting Thomas said...

Why would lowlifes and criminals need to be "encouraged" to do this?

It's the natural order of things.

Scott M said...

What part of "by any means necessary" don't the occupiers understand?

Moose said...

Reminds me of working in Ann Arbor in the 80's at a hippie bar. A number of the waitresses were Wiccans and all held their little shindigs together. Eventually a schism developed as some of the witches determined they were more in touch with the *whatever* than the other witches, so they started their own inner circle. Odd how that works across all groups involving people.

Ann Althouse said...

"Why would lowlifes and criminals need to be "encouraged" to do this?"

They don't need to be encouraged, but the question is whether in addition to their own motivation, they are being encouraged -- either actively or passively -- by the police.

Passive encouragement would be the police standing off and allowing victimization to take place.

Active encouragement would be rousting criminals and lowlifes in other parts of the city and telling them to relocate to Zuccotti Park.

Paddy O said...

From what I can tell, the various occupy movements have been quite vocal about their disdain for police. Some of this, to be sure, is frustration at what they see as police excess. But as some of that excess was provoked by noncompliance, the police probably have a fair amount of frustration themselves. Basically, the protesters want to be in charge of the police and act up if the police don't succumb to their clear moral superiority.

Meanwhile, the police are helping the rest of the citizens by herding all the various undesirables into one location. If things get too out of hand, they'll send in "Snake" Plissken.

Shouting Thomas said...

The propaganda battle to paint OWS as martyrs continues.

Is it even necessary to point out that the same press that slandered the Tea Party for simply holding short demonstrations is carrying water for OWS?

All my liberal (and some not even so liberal) friends in NYC are busy building a fantasy around OWS of some great, coherent political movement.

Why?

Hoosier Daddy said...

Not seeing a problem here. When you're openly hostile to the police, it shouldn't be a surprise this happens.

I'm sure garage will join me in defending these brave unionized public workers' innovation in maintaining law and order.

Jay said...

Human nature lands on the heads of silly, ignorant, arrested development adolescents and they call on the police for help.

Too funny.

TWM said...

"What exactly is this clear defining line between protester and low-life, between occupier and "carnival crowd"?"

Excellent question. I pretty much consider them all lowlifes, in that they appear to do nothing but leach off of society (or their parents.) Not all are criminals, however, past drug use and violating the law during these protests.

TWM said...

"What exactly is this clear defining line between protester and low-life, between occupier and "carnival crowd"?"

Excellent question. I pretty much consider them all lowlifes, in that they appear to do nothing but leach off of society (or their parents.) Not all are criminals, however, past drug use and violating the law during these protests.

Shouting Thomas said...

Why has the media signed on to the campaign to portray the OWS kids as martyrs?

What are they martyring themselves to?

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Seems to me this just boils down to pragmatism on the part of beat cops. You tell the drunk who likes to pass out in your territory that they can go to Zucotti where they can can free food, and which is a mess anyway from the cop's standpoint. It's win-win.

Psychedelic George said...

Why would police need to encourage homeless people and riffraff to go to Occupy sites? Free food, something to do and be a part of.

There's a video on Boingboing today identifying undercover policemen posing as Occupy-iers. Let's hope so!

TWM said...

"Active encouragement would be rousting criminals and lowlifes in other parts of the city and telling them to relocate to Zuccotti Park."

"Rousting criminals." Great word rousting.

Nobody Knows That I Am A Dog!!! said...

In the end I wonder who will be resposible to clean up and repair the damage that has been done to Zuccotti Park once this charade is over? My understanding is that it is a private park. Will the OWS people contribute, the City of NY or will it be left to the owner?

My guess is that the liberal politicians of NY will leave it to the private property owner. We shall see.

ndspinelli said...

Professor, Assuming for the sake of this arguement the allegation about the NYPD is true. Having known NYPD and Chicago cops for years I can tell you this is softball shit. Hardball tactics, if exposed, would make this a nothingburger.

Jay said...

Oh, and here is some more reporting from Zuccotti Park:


Wall Street protesters in Zuccotti Park battened down the hatches yesterday as the early October snow turned their tents into igloos, but the close quarters also made easy pickings for one predator.

A sex fiend barged into a woman’s tent and sexually assaulted her at around 6 a.m., said protesters, who chased him from the park.

“Pervert! Pervert! Get the f--k out!” said vigilante Occupiers, who never bothered to call the cops.

“They were shining flashlights in his face and yelling at him to leave,” said a woman who called herself Leslie, but refused to give her real name.



She said that weeks earlier another woman was raped.

“We don’t tell anyone,” she said. “We handle it internally. I said too much already.”


Gee, I wonder why they handle it internally???

David said...

They don't want the cops, they won't get the cops. Let them police themselves for a while and see how it goes.

Shouting Thomas said...

So, in Wisconsin, the police were the brave face of the unions.

In NYC, they're the oppressors.

This is getting confusing.

sorepaw said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Shanna said...

Active encouragement would be rousting criminals and lowlifes in other parts of the city and telling them to relocate to Zuccotti Park.

Perhaps the police are irritated that they are expected to police certain areas of town but leave the little darlings in OWS alone. How is it fair to roust a homeless person from one part of town for loitering while leaving this group alone?

Pastafarian said...

They catch someone committing sexual assault on a woman; and in reprisal, they shine flashlights in his eyes, yell at him for a while, and make him leave.

Even as vigilantes, these people suck.

Jay said...

Oh this is great:


Nick Hommen, 29, a volunteer from Salem, Ore., who was handling donations, said some demonstrators were taking advantage of people’s generosity.

“We can’t afford to keep buying new tents. It’s ridiculous the sense of entitlement people feel,” Hommen said.

And he distinguished between actual protesters and the growing number of homeless people invading the park, a rift first reported last week by The Post when kitchen workers revolted over working 18-hour days to feed “professional homeless” people.

“We can’t continue to be a homeless shelter,” Hommen said.



But you, not you Nick, you don't feel a sense of entitlement or anything!

And real actual people can't "be a homeless shelter" but of course the federal government can!

Audie Murphys Mom said...

Cops always move along the homeless to someone elses beat. Now they have a toilet to drop the shit in.

They are Mayor Bloomberg, the NYT and garages problem now.

PETER V. BELLA said...

Since Zuccotti park is an allowed encampment, and since the nimby faction does not want criminals, drunks, and homeless people in their gentrified parks, why not send them to Zuccotti.

It is the new Hoverville.

Carol_Herman said...

Why blame the NYPD?

Zoo--cotti Park is PRIVATE PROPERTY!

MOOCHERS came along and took what is not theirs. And, what they could not do in Central Park. And, with donations coming in ... the OWS got the press to cover all the FREE giveaways.

You didn't think you'd attract a criminal crowd?

What the cops didn't do was arrest anybody that was opening using drugs ... because it would have started a conflagration and a riot.

As to WHY there's violence now?

Tank said...

Pastafarian said...

They catch someone committing sexual assault on a woman; and in reprisal, they shine flashlights in his eyes, yell at him for a while, and make him leave.

Even as vigilantes, these people suck.


Well, that made me LOL. My thought was - what the hell kind of vigilante uses a flashlight - now, a real vigilante would have sliced the guy's dick off.

Patrick said...

Well since those OWS follks have decided that they can handle their problems without the police, I'm sure they'll be fine.

Paul Zrimsek said...

The cops probably figure that since the Occupiers Without Occupations have voluntarily chosen to put themselves in the middle of a bunch of financiers whom they regard as the worst criminals of all, the added presence of a few mere vagrants shouldn't bother them.

Mary Martha said...

The 'protestors' don't want the law enforced in their little encampment when it's laws about squatting, public vagrancy, camping, public urination etc.

Then they complain when the Police don't help to 'maintain order'? The way the police maintain order is to enforce the laws - all of them.

Occupiers have created a lawless anarchy - they can reap the rewards!

TosaGuy said...

"give the active participants time to consolidate their gains to date and refine their structures (including a bid to shift some power from the general assembly comprised of the semi-random group of people who show up on the Broadway steps each evening to the working group members who have invested time and effort in the occupation)"

So these OWS "leader" types want to take power (and control of the resources) away from the people who show up at the appointed voting times.

I am sure this blows up about 18 of the things they supposedly believe in.

BESr said...

It sounds as though they are promoting criminal behavior in order to disgrace the movement -- and perhaps turn some of the protesters into victims of criminal predators. This appears to be a conscious effort to sabotage. Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't.

がんこもん said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
n.n said...

The assertions about the various Tea Parties was and is that they are prejudiced in their opposition to progressive involuntary exploitation for purposes of redistributive and retributive change.

The assertion about the occupiers is that they are victims.

The conclusion is that journalists are biased and are predisposed to make appeals to emotion. That doesn't help the majority of people who are looking for objective reporting of events.

t-man said...

It's just assymetrical warfare. They protesters are itching for an Oakland-style reaction from the police. Knowing that is the protesters' goal, the police use a different tactic.

I don't see this as anything very different from the owner of Zucotti park simply announcing that for the duration of the protest, the homeless could use the park too, without police harrassment. I assume the owner still has the legal right to allow guests on the property, right? Even if those guests become a nuisance to trespassers.

Audie Murphys Mom said...

You do realize that these "rapes' are most likely as true as the "rapes" that took place in the Superdome during Katrina. If this did occur and they are withholding evidence they are committing a crime.

But then this whole exercise is a crime. Trespass, littering, public nuisance and illegal assembly are all crimes that the police are ignoring based on political concerns.

Revenant said...

Aren't the police being honest? The protesters have demanded, and politicians have agreed to, suspending the rule of law in the park.

So telling people "if you want to break the law, go to the park" is the simple truth, is it not?

Joanna said...

By definition (99%), the criminals and lowlifes are part of the movement.

Or, maybe the new slogan is for the 98%.

Curious George said...

OWS protesters and "criminals and lowlifes".

Only God could tell the difference.

mtrobertsattorney said...

It seems to me that Zuccotti Park is exactly where these homeless folks belong. After all,isn't it an important part of liberal-left dogma that the reason these people are homeless, and maybe drink too much, is because of the rampant greed of capitalists?

Audie Murphys Mom said...

Yes and the police are letting him sort them out.

garage mahal said...

Looks like those millions donated by Goldman Sachs and others to the NYPD is finally starting to pay off!

ricpic said...

...two of OWS's core values, generosity and inclusion, are being put to the test.

So saith Siegel. Funny, I thought OWS's core values were rage and retribution. But then Siegel is a full time reporter for the change the world Village Voice.

Brian McKim & Traci Skene said...

"Passive encouragement would be the police standing off and allowing victimization to take place."

If I am not mistaken, passive encouragement of vagrancy is already taking place, with the blessing of the mayor and others. I imagine the police are frustrated, as they have been told to not roust the children from their encampment, even though it's having a negative effect on the quality of life of those who live/work near the park. (And, it might be argued, on the QOL of the folks encamped.)

Once you allow/command the police force to passively encourage one type of lawlessness, you might have a hard time credibly condemning them for passively encouraging other types of lawlessness.

I applaud them for their resourcefulness. They're between a rock and a political place.

Kirk Parker said...

Right out of Soviet Russia.

sorepaw said...

Looks like those millions donated by Goldman Sachs and others to the NYPD is finally starting to pay off!

The unit known as Garage does it again.

So witless, how could be a person?

Hoosier Daddy said...

"... Gee, I wonder why they handle it internally???..."

Read Lord of the Flies.

sorepaw said...

how could *he* be a person?

But the dropped pronoun is sort of appropriate.

Sigivald said...

Ann said: Passive encouragement would be the police standing off and allowing victimization to take place.

Aren't these OWS people now famous for not letting the police in in the first place?

They don't seem to want a police presence in their little camps.

I'm not going to blame the police for "allowing" some notional "victimization" to happen in a camp claiming to be self-ruling and keeping them out.

That's the problem with trying to form your own little utopian society and keeping The Man out - The Man thus can't keep you safe from what you create.

It's pretty hard to avoid schadenfreude at this point.

Patrick said...

Garage, did you mean the money that Goldman Sachs donated to the president? You know, the top Obama donor?

http://articles.cnn.com/2010-04-20/politics/obama.goldman.donations_1_obama-campaign-presidential-campaign-federal-election-commission-figures?_s=PM:POLITICS

Henry said...

It's a very simple incentive.

The police want to limit the number of shitty details in Manhattan to one.

Jay said...

Hossier,

I guess those women can deal with the anguish of being sexually assualted by knowing they did it for the cause.

It will all have been worth it when the OWS demands have been met!

Hoosier Daddy said...

".. “We can’t afford to keep buying new tents. It’s ridiculous the sense of entitlement people feel,” Hommen said..."

This perfectly encapsulates the complete self unawareness that liberals possess.

garage mahal said...

Garage, did you mean the money that Goldman Sachs donated to the president? You know, the top Obama donor?

Um, no?

Paul said...

"and instead they encourage criminals and lowlifes to move in and prey upon the idealists and naifs"

Sounds like a plan! A good one to. Can't be sued that way.

Let the dogs have 'em!

bagoh20 said...

Zuccotti Park = Conservative breeding ground. I believe the term is "teachable moment".

chuck said...

The occupiers don't like the police and don't want them around. The police, being a lot more in touch with reality than the average occupier in an obvious way. *Shrug*. Those who ignore human nature and civility will suffer the consequences. I don't bother to argue with Lefties, but the police have decided to engage in the discussion in a rather clever way.

MayBee said...

Yes, what Revenant and Shanna said.

The protesters want a place where people can live for free 24 hours/a day. It's their problem that they haven't created any rules about who is allowed to freeload along with them.

Hoosier Daddy said...

"... Garage, did you mean the money that Goldman Sachs donated to the president? You know, the top Obama donor?..."

You know when garage makes those kind of posts, part of me wonders if he's really a conservative plant.

TosaGuy said...

It's more apparant that the true meaning of "We are the 99 percent" is that they think 99 percent of the world revolves around them.

Audie Murphys Mom said...

What are they going to do when J shows up?

Lucius said...

Well, up until they stopped scooping out free spaghetti bolognese, they surely didn't need police encouragement.

As Norman Mailer said in his review of "Last Tango in Paris" (I paraphrase): how many miles would you drive just to hear Richard Nixon say, 'we're just taking a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut?'

Well, how many miles would you drive just for free spaghetti bolognese?

Damn, I'm hungry.

wv: oventr Taunting me.

KenK said...

That tactic by the police (move your troublemakers elsewhere) is way old. Ann Arbor's current CoP admitted that he and his officers (when he worked for another police dept) used to gather up their homeless lumpen and drive them over here because AA had a more humane climate (publically funded shelters, soup kitchens, and etc.).

Dust Bunny Queen said...

too much effort and too much bad press or too legally confusing — to oust the protesters from Zuccotti Park, and instead they encourage criminals and lowlifes to move in and prey upon the idealists and naifs.

Or decide to actually enforce the laws and get their butts reamed like the Oakland police.

My attitude would be, "You (OWS morons) created this situation....YOU deal with it. We are protecting the taxpayers of the city elsewhere. Have fun."

madAsHell said...

I just have to believe a lot of liberal conviction is an intelligence problem.

Audie Murphys Mom said...

They should just fence off the park and throw in a couple of copies of "Lord of the Flies" and sit back and eat some donuts.

Monkeyboy said...

So a kind-hearted cop say to a homeless guy "look, I know you don't want to go to a shelter, but it's freezing- go down to Zuccotti at least, get a wrm meal and an empty tent.

or
"hey dude, you can't smoke weed here but I don't want to arrest you, go down to Zuccotti where you can do it without hassle."

And the OWS children, forced to share the toys they were handed for free, try to get the homeless thrown out.

NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...

@Ann Althouse said...

They don't need to be encouraged, but the question is whether in addition to their own motivation, they are being encouraged -- either actively or passively -- by the police.

Passive encouragement would be the police standing off and allowing victimization to take place.


But the OWS'ers view the police as the enemy. Can't really blame them for standing back and not antagonizing the OWS'ers, can you?

I would suspect that it's as someone said earlier; they're just moving everyone into one area for
ease of managment.

wv - bleatee

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I guess those women can deal with the anguish of being sexually assualted by knowing they did it for the cause.

Right. For the cause, ladies!

Lie back and think of..???...whatever it is that you are protesting.

Consequences. They really suck don't they.

Roger Sweeny said...

If this were private property owned by the protesters, they could legally require the "unstable and unsteady types" to leave. To the extent that private property is a social norm, they could expect the "unstable and unsteady" to leave without even having to involve the police.

Private property is a necessity for civilization. To the extent that the Zuccotti Park people segregate out the "unstable and unsteady," they will be partially re-inventing it.

William said...

The homeless have their own grapevine. If the OWS park offers a good deal, word will get out....I don't know if the cops have to actively encourage this migration. It's just as likely that the protestors would make up such a story.....Interesting metamorphosis: the homeless become low lifes when they interact with the protestors. When they interact with the cops, they are damaged souls and victims of police brutality.....The OWS should embrace this opportunity to give balm to capitalism's most extreme victims. Give them food and counsel with a willing heart. Let us all compare and contrast their kindness towards the fallen with the ugly behavior of the cops. Let the OWS actualize their vision of a just, equitable society.

gutless said...

The scheme to move in lowlifes if true is cynical. That's also part of what makes it so delightful.

michaele said...

The police are just giving the talkers involved in the OWS crowd a chance to walk the walk when it comes to wealth redistribution. The OWS folks should be grateful for this opportunity to share.

Dark Eden said...

This is an interesting and I think necessary experiment. If you want to fundamentally transform American society, do you think your replacement model out to at least be able to handle a few bums and lowlifes?

I wonder how many born again Republicans will come out of this OWS mess? There are a lot of idealistic liberals being mugged by reality all across the country.

Sue D'Nhym said...

I think it is great. Rather than the police oppressing the downtrodden, they are referring the downtrodden to the protesters, who are ostensibly protesting on behalf of the downtrodden, but now need the assistance of the police to rid them of these undesirables, which would require the police to enforce the very laws that the protesters are violating.

It's all very neat, and particularly crafty.

Excepting, of course, that it is more likely that some honest hard-working cop would rather be preventing serious crime rather than busting some homeless guy who is drinking in misery.

LilEvie said...

They "handled it internally".

Yeah, in the literal sense.

Sue D'Nhym said...

The police want to limit the number of shitty details in Manhattan to one.

Bingo. And it does not take a conspiracy for this to happen. Hell, management almost certainly would be opposed.

But dozens of beat cops deciding their lives would be easier if they tell old toothless to trudge across town?

Pogo said...

The cognitive dissonance required to be a lefty these days is daunting.

It's like the movie:
The homeless are my soul brothers, victims of The Man!
They're lowlifes!
My brothers, lowlifes,
Brothers, lowlifes,
...They're my brothers AND they're lowlifes!


Forget it Jake, it's Leftytown.

Alex said...

garage-bot is malfuctioning.

Jay Fellows said...

Point 'em out, knock 'em out! Flash mob, baby...

Michael said...

This is what is known as a "trouser's leg" in chess. The left is rhetorically trapped.

Lem said...

A version of the suicide bomber in witch no one dies..

Alinskyesk.. liberals used to love them dirty tricks.. when turned against them.. not so much.

cassandra lite said...

Althouse,

I disagree that Didion's Slouching was about the "decline" of what was supposed to be Utopia. Didion did all her reporting in the spring of '67--before the so-called "Summer of Love." So the Utopianism hadn't yet been established as a marketing hook; ergo, no decline, per se.

At 32--more than twice the age of some of the runaways she got to know--she was writing about the rough beast that would be reawakened if we abandoned civilization to this ethos.

Valentine Smith said...

This is bottom up policing not top down.

Here's a thought exercise (impossible for lawyers,I know):
Pretend your a policeman in Manhattan or downtown Brooklyn and you're interacting with a shlub you've interacted with dozens of times. You can almost call him a friend (this is really impossible for the upper middle class to imagine). Where would you tell him to go?

Cedarford said...

The problem with liberal theory that they fight for the downtrodden violent minority, the misunderstood criminal, the noble addled homeless druggie or wino - along with calls for authorities to stop persecuting them - is the theory is only valid if the liberals live at a safe distance from those groups.

Otherwise it is liberal sheep amongst the wolves.

With a certain satisfaction of cops, realistic hard working people watching the predation happen - mentally replaying their favorite lines "You need us on that Wall, you WANT us on that Wall..and if PVT Santiagos death has one meaning...."

Fen said...

Perhaps the police are irritated that they are expected to police certain areas of town but leave the little darlings in OWS alone

Actually, it makes perfect sense:

OWS has set up its own little Commune at Zuccotti park, outside the Rule of Law.
They are hostile to police and have established their own "police" force.
They are handing out free food and lodging to members of their group.

Why shouldn't the police send the vagrants over to Zuccotti? Its good for the homeless to get freebies. And its payback to the protestors for attacking the cops.

"You wanted to be outside the law? You physically attacked the very people who risk their lives to protect you? Fine. Here ya go. Let see how you deal with it on your own."

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)



OWS ARE Teenagers…they want mommy and daddy to leave them alone and GIVE THEM RESPECT, until the ‘cell ‘phone bill comes in or the rent is due and then, suddenly, mommy and daddy need to come to the rescue. You want to restructure society, restructure it, deal with the bums and vagrants and offenders, on your own! St Paul and the Early Church wrestled with this, so too the Puritans…” If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.” Any organization has free loaders, it’s up to you to deal with them.

Tyrone Slothrop said...

Off-topic, but germane nontheless:

Alex said...

Guys remember that you can't ban users on blogger, so learn to live with the trolls. It's easy enough to scroll right past Ritmo/garage/Mitshit.


Not so.

Of course, you have to want to ban them.

Chuck66 said...

So the anti-police protesters, who say they have a right to camp out in public, are complaining that others are exercising the same rights?

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

So the anti-police protesters, who say they have a right to camp out in public, are complaining that others are exercising the same rights

It’s different, it’s complicated, and you’d have to Derida and Foucault, so trust me; it’s different.

murgatroyd666 said...

Cops have a cynical -- though understandable -- code phrase for lowlifes attacking lowlifes: NHI.

It stands for "No Humans Involved."

murgatroyd666 said...

It’s different, it’s complicated, and you’d have to Derida and Foucault, so trust me; it’s different.

A A.

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)



I am impressed with OWS and other Occupy(City) groups, though…they are getting their excuses ready early. You know when you’re doing the big 10K and so you start limping a couple of days before hand…that way if you don’t finish or do poorly you can talk about how you pulled your hamstring a couple of days before the race, and you can point to your limp as proof. OWS is blaming the cops for the collapse of their anarcho-syndicalist commune rather than the stupid ideas it represents. One more case of “Communism was never really TRIED.”

Mike said...

Keeping in mind that the OWS protestors have publically stated that they do not report crimes that happen within the camp; the crimes are handled "internally" (why am I flashing on Lord of the Flies here).

So maybe the officers are just giving the protestors everything they wanted and more! More 99 percenters for the protest. What could go wrong?

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

Occupy Wall Street applies to trademark its brand
In the filing, the Occupy Wall Street movement stressed its existence as an “unincorporated association.”



And now they will begin to squabble over licensing rights and disbursements! Oh those tricksy Capitalists….using the homeless and then their legal system to corrupt and undermine the Dream of a Generation!

What will the Action Figures look like?

Chuck66 said...

It's like the millionaire ACLU lawyer defending criminals and going after the police.

Crime tends not to be a problem in the elite ultra-wealthly neighborhoods that ACLU lawyers live in. Example..AA and Meade, do you fear for your life if you walk around the block in your neighbhorhood?

So these lawyers make it hard to control crime in places like North Milwaukee, someplace they won't be caught dead in. Then go back to their elitiest homes.

My point? The OWS actually have to live around those who aren't assets to society. Something a rich liberal isn't used to.

Carol_Herman said...

Gee, isn't this just UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES?

How come we no longer point to stuff people don't "expect." So that now "unexpectedly" ... has become a word that got adopted instead of something so obvious!

Newcomers to a steet corner get overwhelmed by gangs.

Nothing like "shining a flashlight" at the problem!

This occupy stuff is such a joke!

I guess the media crossed the line and went into the entertainment business, huh?

caplight said...

Alinsky: Make your enemy live by his own rules.

Amartel said...

It's news when criminals and low-lifes move in on OWS protestors (who have taken up residence on the turf of criminals and low lifes). When criminals and low-lifes move in on the rest of us, not so much.

ic said...

How could the police arrest anyone doing things that were deemed legal and permissible in Zucotti Park? The only ratinal thing the police could do was to direct them to where their actions were legal, no?

What the lowlifes and criminals did was to take things away from sombody else. Isn't that exactly what the "idealists and naifs" try to do, with the sanctions and power of the State? In a way the lowlifes and criminals are more admirable, they risked their own necks; the "idealists and naifs" hide behind the State to beat taxpayers into submission: jailtime for those who don't cough up protection money.

Lem said...

Aren't any of these 'lowlifes' writing an Opus like say.. The Oral History of the World?

Call it The Oral History of OWS.

ricpic said...

So when does Obama throw Occupy Wherever under the bus?

Joe said...

(The Uncredentialed, Crypto Jew)

So when does Obama throw Occupy Wherever under the bus


How can he, they are the Base.

gregq said...

They're encouraging the criminals and lowlifes to join with the other big group of criminals and lowlifes. What's wrong with that?

The "Occupiers" have rejected society, rejected society's rules. In what sane and rational world are they entitled to any of the benefits of society?

They decided they wanted to be outside the law. Fine. Now they can have all the other outside the law people, too.

That, dear friends, is justice. And therefore good.

Rick said...

This is an uplifting story about the NYPD. I hope they are actively engaged in implementing this policy and that it leads to a breakdown in the elitist classes of the OWSers.

raf said...

I assume the owner still has the legal right to allow guests on the property, right? Even if those guests become a nuisance to trespassers.

Wouldn't this make the property owner liable in tort to his neighbors? As long as the Occupiers are doing it without permission and the owner's (hypothetical) appeal to authority was rejected by that authority, I would think that he would have an "all reasonable efforts" defense, or something.

wv: gueterr. I think guerilla terrorist is an overkill term for this topic.

garage mahal said...

The "Occupiers" have rejected society, rejected society's rules. In what sane and rational world are they entitled to any of the benefits of society?

Who needs the fucking constitution or Bill of Rights! We'll just do this by feel.

Thorley Winston said...

So basically it’s Hamsterdam – the cops take back the neighborhoods where the decent people live by telling the lowlifes to move it to the “free zone.”

Don't Tread 2012 said...

Its a good strategy.

Its got that Cloward-Piven feel to it.

ricpic said...

Joe - I know they're the base but by now even the comrades in the White House must be getting the message (or the polling data) that the occupiers are turning off independents. And since - whether it's true or not - all professional pols believe the independent vote is key to victory, and Zippy has a penchant for abandoning "problems," isn't it under the bus time? Which can be done with compassion, i.e. to avoid Valley Forge levels of suffering.

Palladian said...

"In a way the lowlifes and criminals are more admirable, they risked their own necks; the "idealists and naifs" hide behind the State to beat taxpayers into submission: jailtime for those who don't cough up protection money."

"The fact is that the government, like a highwayman, says to a man: “Your money, or your life.” And many, if not most, taxes are paid under the compulsion of that threat.

The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the roadside, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful.

The highwayman takes solely upon himself the responsibility, danger, and crime of his own act. He does not pretend that he has any rightful claim to your money, or that he intends to use it for your own benefit. He does not pretend to be anything but a robber. He has not acquired impudence enough to profess to be merely a “protector,” and that he takes men’s money against their will, merely to enable him to “protect” those infatuated travellers, who feel perfectly able to protect themselves, or do not appreciate his peculiar system of protection. He is too sensible a man to make such professions as these. Furthermore, having taken your money, he leaves you, as you wish him to do. He does not persist in following you on the road, against your will; assuming to be your rightful “sovereign,” on account of the “protection” he affords you. He does not keep “protecting” you, by commanding you to bow down and serve him; by requiring you to do this, and forbidding you to do that; by robbing you of more money as often as he finds it for his interest or pleasure to do so; and by branding you as a rebel, a traitor, and an enemy to your country, and shooting you down without mercy, if you dispute his authority, or resist his demands. He is too much of a gentleman to be guilty of such impostures, and insults, and villainies as these. In short, he does not, in addition to robbing you, attempt to make you either his dupe or his slave."

from Lysander Spooner's, "No Treason, No. 6, The Constitution of No Authority" Ch. III, Sec. I

Just Lurking said...

The attitude of the OWS crowd towards the homeless shows that they believe they are better than the homeless, and deserve more than the homeless. So their high-minded talk about equality and fairness is just that; talk. They are hypocrites; and if the police are indeed directing the homeless to the park, they are doing the protesters a favor by forcing them to face their hypocrisy. This is a learning experience you can't get from four years of partying at an expensive university.

It's time for them to pack it up and go home. Their protest is premised on a lie.

Fen said...

Garage: Who needs the fucking constitution or Bill of Rights!

Its not a buffet. You can't pick and choose only the laws that you like.

But thanks for reminding us how little respect OWS has for the Rule of Law.

Thrown any bottles and rocks at cops today, Garage?

MadisonMan said...

Why do they call it a park? It looks like it's all concrete, a plaza at best.

Big Mike said...

Oh, wow. A cop or two (and Siegel presents no evidence -- other than anecdotal -- that it's even that many), and suddenly there's a conspiracy.

Is there anybody in New York who's ready to grow up?

edwardroyce said...

For a bunch of people claiming to be 99% they sure are pretty damn exclusive.

Look if they're 99% then they have to accept the whole 99%.

If they're not 99% then they're engaged in false advertising.

Don't Tread 2012 said...

"Its not a buffet. You can't pick and choose only the laws that you like."

Inconsistency, picking and choosing, hypocrisy, douchebaggery, all attributes of the genetically-damaged left.

Ernst Stavro Blofeld said...

Eh. Even if the allegations are true, at best the police are speeding up a process that would happen anyway as word spread among the homeless that free food and shelter was available at the park. Along with a police-free environment that can allow them to enjoy drugs, drinking, and bad behavior.

It's not like the OWS nitwits want the police there; the story relates several instances of the popo being hassled when they attempt to enforce the law. Combine free stuff with hostility to police presence and this is what you get.

John from Pomeroy on the Palouse said...

That tactic by the police (move your troublemakers elsewhere) is way old.

Wasn't the first lady (before she was the first lady) responsible for a program that dropped indigents who showed up at her hospital (U of chicago med ctr) for free emergency care off at a corner close to a "public' hospital?

IggyRules said...

I certainly hope so.

Joe said...

And Caesar's spirit, ranging for revenge,
With Ate by his side come hot from hell,
Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
Cry 'Pshah,' and let slip the dogs of apathy

Ralph L said...

I met a boy called Frank Mills
On September twelfth right here
In front of the Waverly
But unfortunately
I lost his address

He was last seen with his friend,
A drummer, he resembles George Harrison of the Beatles
But he wears his hair
Tied in a small bow at the back

I love him but it embarrasses me
To walk down the street with him
He lives in Brooklyn somewhere
And wears this white crash helmet

He has gold chains on his leather jacket
And on the back is written the names
Mary
And Mom
And Hell's Angels

I would gratefully
Appreciate it if you see him tell him
I'm in the park with my girlfriend
And please

Tell him Angela and I
Don't want the two dollars back
Just him!

Rich B said...

The police are subtle.

J said...

Let them eat homeless!

It might be the first reasonable policy Bloomberg has ever pursued.


Not the 'J' who usually posts, but I don't feel like changing mine.

Eric said...

What are they going to do when J shows up?

Chase him away with flashlights, I'd imagine.

beast said...

Gee the OWS penalty for rape is shaming shunning and exile-to the real world.Effective deterrent that.
But the beat cops response to the illegal(trespass) occupation of private land is send in the skells
Which one is smarter?

richard mcenroe said...

It's a fine old NYC trick. Trump used to move transients into apartment buildings he'd bought to drive out the old tenants so he could go co-op...

glenn said...

I call bucksnort. No NYPD union member, Dem voting, decent cop would do something like this. Sarc/off


Now actually what's going on here is a little begnine neglect. Buncha lefty posers want to occupy a park in NYC they are gonna draw a crowd of freeloaders. I say let 'em.

gregq said...

garage babbled:

Who needs the fucking constitution or Bill of Rights! We'll just do this by feel.

What in the world does that have to do with this situation? If the OWS lowlifes have some sort of Constitutional right to violate the law, then so do the other lowlifes that the cops are sending their way. What the OWS people are doing to the rest of us, the other lowlifes are doing to them.

That's justice.

MPH said...

I was down there a couple of weeks ago and the east-west dichotomy was very clear even then.

Here are the photos I took that day (Oct 20).