July 12, 2010

If you really believed in global warming, you would turn off your air conditioning.

Permanently. Hot? Sit still, drink water, and stop being so selfish. Stan Cox promotes the joys of going AC-free. But it's just a pep talk. And anyway, why should you feel joy, sinner? It will feel bad. It should feel bad. The only good feelings that are appropriate are: 1. Expiating your sins, and 2. the sheer impact with reality.

AND: Here are some more things I want to see from you to prove that you really believe in global warming.

1. Your weight should be at the low end of normal, indicating that you are not overconsuming the products of agriculture.

2. You should not engage in vigorous physical exercise, as this will increase your caloric requirements. You may do simple weight-lifting or calisthenics to keep in shape. Check how many calories per hour are burned and choose a form of exercise that burns as few calories as possible.

3. Free time should be spent sitting or lying still without using electricity. Don't run the television or music playing device. Reading, done by sunlight is the best way to pass free time. After dark, why not have a pleasant conversation with friends or family? Word games or board games should replace sports or video games.

4. Get up at sunrise. Don't waste the natural light. Try never to turn on the electric lights in your house or workplace. Put compact fluorescent bulbs in all your light fixtures. The glow is so ugly that it will reduce the temptation to turn them on.

5. Restrict your use of transportation. Do not assume that walking or biking is less productive of carbon emissions than using a highly efficient small car. Do not go anywhere you don't have to go. When there is no food in the house to make dinner, instead of hopping in the car to go to the grocery store or a restaurant, take it as a cue to fast. As noted above, your weight should be at the low end of normal, and opportunities to reach or stay there should be greeted with a happy spirit.

6. If you have free time, such as a vacation from work, spend it in your home town. Read library books, redo old jigsaw puzzles, meditate, tell stories to your children — the list of activities is endless. Just thinking up more items to put on that list is an activity that could be on the list. Really embrace this new way of life. A deep satisfaction and mental peace can be achieved knowing that you are saving the earth.

295 comments:

1 – 200 of 295   Newer›   Newest»
Jason (the commenter) said...

I'll promote that to anyone who's "green"; just so they're miserable!

traditionalguy said...

The Nanny State has noticed HVAC units. We southerners are in trouble now. The blessings to us and our posterity to pursue life, liberty and happiness in Air Conditioned space are now REVOKED thanks to AlGore and sting, scam, hoax artists everywhere.

DKWalser said...

Have Stan move out to the Phoenix area, or better yet, Las Vegas. After a few weeks of our summer weather, I'd bet he wouldn't willingly go without A/C.

Comrade X said...

No. I vote everyone goes without heat in the winter instead.

El Pollo Real said...

Move to Oceanside CA:

~no A/C needed & very little heating required in the winter.

~Public transportation hub with commuter trains running north, south and east to L.A., San Diego, and Escondido.

~Housing market is currently tanked with more "affordable" housing than ever.

~Earthquake danger is relatively low- not on major fault line.

John Lynch said...

Yeah, this stuff isn't about results. It's about feeling good by self-righteously going without.

There is a word for reduced consumption. The word is "poverty." Why are so many people trying to make us poor?

former law student said...

In the Midwest, get a basement and sit in it. Add a thrifty dehumidifier.

Low-energy-using swamp coolers work just fine in Arizona, unless a storm is passing through. Every year, ads remind you to change your pads.

Jason (the commenter) said...

The chain of disbelief:

You have air conditioning?

When did you buy those clothes? They don't look like you bought them used!

You bathe every day?

You have a cell phone?

You have a Mac? I can't even believe you own a computer!

You had a cup of coffee? At a cafe?

You're eating food you bought at a store when people throw perfectly good food in the dumpster down the street?!

Cedarford said...

Little AC in 3rd world countries in the tropics, even in hot places in Europe.

AC is a lot to do with Americans living and working in glass boxes and wearing too much clothing. Euro summer clothes and suits are very light - for a reason. America could conserve more.

That said, I believe worker productivity would plummet in America if we had to be in a sweltering 95 degree office in Italy with 80% humidity. The Italians cope by not just light clothes, but 2 hour mid-day breaks and working as little as possible.

We have one AC for one bedroom, a small unit. The rest of the house goes on fans and opening a skylight at night to vent off the restof the day's heat.

Palladian said...

"There is a word for reduced consumption. The word is "poverty." Why are so many people trying to make us poor?"

I was sent an essay wherein the premise is that choosing individual "green options" is just another manifestation of bourgeois capitalist commercialist individualism.

What the real lefties are after is "stopping the growth economy that is destroying the planet".

Obama's a real lefty.

garage mahal said...

I remember our power went out for close to two weeks when I lived in FL after hurricane Frances. I hauled the family back to the sweltering Africa hot condo defiantly, and said we were going to tough it and make do, instead of paying for another night at the hotel. That lasted about two hours.

Jason (the commenter) said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Palladian said...

The de-humidification provided by air conditioning is what makes it worthwhile.

I cannot bear relative humidity over 30 percent.

Comrade X said...

AC causes heat & greenhouse gases from the power, but doesn't create heat, it just moves existing heat around, and creates cool.

Heating causes heat & greenhouse gases from the power AND creates heat, the stuff that warms the fevery planet. Clearly, heating is a greater evil.

ak said...

I don't like AC. When I was single and lived in an older apartment, I did fine with a good cross-breeze and a box fan. Our house has central AC but we only use it if it gets really dire.

We're shut up for six months of winter here in MN. When summer finally arrives, I want the fresh air and the birdsong.

My neighbor is for-thee-but-not-for-me greenie. She's got the bumper stickers. But she runs her AC full-tilt from April to October, no matter what the actual weather. And she sits inside in long-sleeve sweatshirts. (No, she doesn't have allergies.)

former law student said...

Comrade X: Heat pumps are popular in Oregon. They move heat out of the house in summer, and into the house in winter.

Big Mike said...

The key phrase is if you believed in global warming. I don't, so I'm off the hook.

Palladian said...

In fact, I once recorded what I considered the perfect weather conditions for my ultimate comfort:

Temperature: 64ºF (18ºC)
Humidity: 19%
Wind Speed: NW 15 G, 24 MPH
Barometric Pressure: 30.00" (1015.7 mbar)
Dewpoint: 21ºF (-6ºC)

I also like colder weather, of course.

Original Mike said...

"If you really believed in global warming, you would turn off your air conditioning"

Nah, you'd just tell yourself that we could have all the CO2-free power we wanted if the conservatives/repubs/capitalists weren't obstructing all the wonderful green technologies that already exist. It's not your fault, see. It's those other guys.

Comrade X said...

fls: power for AC comes from domestic energy production.

heating oil is imported and increases our dependency on foreign sources, not to mention I live in the South and am more willing to sacrifice Northerner's comfort

HDHouse said...

i sense far too much riding around with Meade in western Illinois with the windows rolled up and the heater on....just a hunch.

Jennifer said...

I don't even have AC. I deserve some kind of medal. Made of recycled material, though. Preferably heat forged. Naturally.

c3 said...

should this go hand in hand with Sheryl Crow's suggestion of one sheet of toilet paper.....

sounding more like central Africa.....

Hey then we get loads of international aid!

traditionalguy said...

The damage usually done by hurricanes is a few roofs and signs blown over. The disaster comes from lack of electrical power to refridgerate food and cool people for 5 days or more. This nasty ascetic propagandist is laying down a pretend moral issue to support Obama's tripling of Electrical Power bills in the name of Green Windmill Scams run soley for friends of Barack.

c3 said...

And as a resident of Phoenix, my response:


HELL NO!!

(And believe me, after many summers in Phx I know Hell.)

Eugene said...

Maybe Stan Cox just finished watching Freeze Me, in which the necessity of turning off the air conditioner figures into the plot (and more importantly, motivates Harumi Inoue to take her clothes off).

former law student said...

I live in the South and am more willing to sacrifice Northerner's comfort


Understood. Without A/C, Dixie would still be a cultural backwater, a place best known for malaria, and yellow and typhoid fevers.

Kevin said...

This is part of the psychological preparation for cap and trade, regulation of CO2 as a pollutant, and all the other government actions that are going to send electricity prices through the roof.

You won't be able to afford air conditioning, but that's OK, since you shouldn't be using it anyway.

The environmentalist mask is slipping off - the old argument was that they weren't arguing for a reduction in living standards - they just wanted things to be more "efficient". Now they are explicitly arguing for a reduction in living standards...

Comrade X said...

fls, without heating, the North would be completely depopulated. What is your point?

El Pollo Real said...

Just lie back and think of Kenya!

Chris said...

No AC, the hair-shirt of the religion of AGW.

Dead Julius said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Rialby said...

Strange. I feel like I was just having a conversation with my mother on this very topic.

Long story short - she lives up in the northeast and is parsimonious with both her heat and her AC. 68 in the winter (sweaters on), 78 in the summer (deal with it). Something about her father remembering the Great Depression. Anyhoo, a heat wave hits last week and the cottage she and my father rented didn't have AC.

She acted as if I'm crazy for living in a state that regularly sees 95-100 degrees in the summer. I wanted to explain to her about how the rise of AC enabled the rise of the Sun Belt but we don't have conversations like that. So, I agreed I'm crazy.

fivewheels said...

Thank you Eugene. Freeze Me has just been added to the Netflix queue and moved to #1.

Now that I live downtown, got rid of my car and walk to work, I think I've done enough penance to live in the temperature equivalent of a supermarket. Sometimes I turn off the AC when I leave for the day, though, do I get a gold star for that?

former law student said...

In the North, to save on natural gas, when there was a cold snap, I would just invite a bunch of friends over, and their body heat would be sufficient. What's the airconditioning equivalent of that?

Comrade X said...

fls: pool party

AJ Lynch said...

Following his logic, humans are bad for the planet so he why doesn't he set an example and kill himself?

Btw - I believe no air conditioning would increase the planet's birthrate. An increase in world population would cause more global warming [according to the leading concensus of pseudo-scientists and talking heads]

Dead Julius said...

(What I meant to say was...)

Talking down human comfort is like, you know, totally not cool.

Subtly suggesting that people should use peer pressure on one another to impede individual choices about human comfort is like, you know, doubly not cool.

The Politico-Media Establishment needs to keep its hands off our bodies, and that includes keeping its hands off the thermostats of our fucking rooms! There can be no compromise!

Is nothing sacred???!!!

Rialby said...

FLS - You're an idiot.

AJ Lynch said...

7. And no more surfing on the internets.

former law student said...

C-X: good point.

rialby: you're a bore.

EDH said...

I know I've linked this before, but...

Warden Barrot: Put all hope out of your mind. And masturbate as little as possible, it drains the strength.

ddh said...

What are the chances the Washington Post had the air conditioning on in its offices as the editors worked on Stan Cox's op-ed? What are the chances that the Washington Post has changed its AC setting based on Cox's argument?

You get one guess.

Bruce Hayden said...

"If you really believed in global warming, you would turn off your air conditioning."

The obvious solution to this insanity is to just not believe in global warming, and then you can run your air conditioning all you want. Ditto with eating, exercising, and all the rest of the stuff we are supposed to give up.

MadisonMan said...

Is Stan Cox going to give up his computer? He won't be able to use it in DC if there is no air conditioning.

Michael said...

I live part of the time in the deep south in a house with very high ceilings. It was built before a/c and electricity thus the architectural solution to the heat and humidity problem. The main living areas are now centrally cooled, but when I was a boy there were only fans and night sounds as I waited for sleep. I can feel the heat even now.

MadisonMan said...

ddh: Great minds think alike :)

AllenS said...

Environmentalism means going to Lambeau Field without air conditioning in the summer or heat in the winter.

Trooper York said...

"former law student said...
In the North, to save on natural gas, when there was a cold snap, I would just invite a bunch of friends over, and their body heat would be sufficient. What's the airconditioning equivalent of that?"

Having Al Gore ask you to go to his room to give him a massage.

Your blood will run cold.

Trooper York said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Pogo said...

The collateral damage will be the very old and very young, the ill and the poor, who die from the effects of high heat and humidity.

In the 2003 European heat wave, France had 14,802 heat-related deaths, mostly old people. (But -bonus- "home utility bills plummet"!).

The East coast had but a dozen or so.


I am beginning to develop a deep and abiding hatred for these goddamned liberal fascists.

Chip Ahoy said...

You lost me at "believe."

Franklin said...

Haha. That was funny, Ann. Well done.

Montagne Montaigne said...

Global warming is a fact. The belief part is whether or not you think mankind is causing it.

Y'all are funny. Not funny ha-ha.

holdfast said...

Here's the thing: it is much easier to keep cool a well designed, large, airy house compared to a concrete box on the 32nd story, yet the greenies tell us that high density urban living is good for Gaia, and that suburbs and exurbs are evil.

Montagne Montaigne said...

Did you know there are ways to build houses and other buildings so they stay cool without relying on air conditioning?

Is air conditioning what you like, or do you like feeling cool? Do you just enjoy the expansive feeling of wasting energy? It makes you feel rich?

I guess anything that requires foresight or thought is communist, though, so never mind about the first bit.

Foobarista said...

I'll support this, but only if all government buildings get rid of AC first, as well as all lobbyist offices.

We'll start with all offices used by Congress and the White House...

Montagne Montaigne said...

Holdfast-- you can even build tall buildings in such a way that they stay cool in summer and warm in winter using less energy! it's crazy but true. it's also communist, so never mind.

If you don't understand why urban areas cause people to use less energy per capita, then there is no hope for you.

Meade said...

7. Dig a hole in the ground until the temperature is a comfortable 55℉ in your hole. Live in it. Eat bugs, worms, and small mammals who haplessly tunnel into your cave. When winter comes, if you get too chilly, dig deeper. The closer you dig to the Earth's core, the warmer you'll be.

Enjoy!

mesquito said...

If you live in the Pacific Nprthwest or Vermont of Wisconsin or Minnesota or Maine. Get off the AC by all means.

I can expect four solid months of 90-plus heat where I live. Up to six weeks of 100-plus. You touch my thermostat and I'll kill you. I mean it.

Montagne Montaigne said...

Dammit, the commies will never understand why consuming massive quantities of fuel and electricity even if engineering solutions exist which reduce energy use with no trade-off in our lifestyle is unAmerican. We need to be as wasteful as we can, because any form of public planning or regulation is communist and unamerican.

You know what else is kinda communist? Laws. How dare the government tell us what to do!

ricpic said...

"You'll feel good about yourself knowing that you're saving the earth" presupposes that you can destroy the earth -- the height of idiot arrogance.

traditionalguy said...

Monty....The idea that communisim is efficient at providing anything at all is actually insane. Whatever is efficient will be quickly put into use in capitalism, but never permitted in Communism. Labor unions are solidly against any efficiency in any industry. The cooperation of government Regulations and labor unions can ruin the efficiency of any known human activity.

nathan said...

You forget:

7. Build a complete straw man of an argument based on a well-meaning suggestion concerning the conservation of energy. Straw can be used as fuel.

Montagne Montaigne said...

traditionalguy, YOU are the one who thinks everything is communist. I look around and there is no communism anywhere on earth. "Labor Unions" are your big bugaboo, and I'm sorry they interfere with efficiency (the gilded age being of course the most efficient age in history) but not allowing people to organize into unions is effectively totalitarian.

Old Dad said...

A Modest Proposal,

Environmental whackos might be tasty, although stringy and tough. I propose that they sacrifice themselves to Gaia, but only in the most temperature conservative times. Where hard freezes occur, the sacrifice should occur only when the carcasses can be stored safely outdoors. Moreover, they can be cooked when the warmth, I mean climate change, from the cook fires can also warm an abode. In warmer climes, the sacrifice should occur around July 4th. We'll be barbecuing anyway.

I'm thinking the reduction in our collective carbon footprint would more than offset that of airconditioning.

In conclusion, I propose that Al Gore set the example next 4th. His ample carcass would surely supply the entire Greater Malibu picnic.

Palladian said...

"I look around and there is no communism anywhere on earth."

LOL

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

You know what else is efficient, TG? Unemployment. It's incredibly efficient.

Of course, no one here is making decisions based on feelings and beliefs. Nosiree! They are completely driven by the facts! Not any new facts since, oh say about 1900, of course. But the facts before then.

They are conservatives of primitive epistemology. No new facts permitted! That's how they conserve their brainpower. That's what they're conserving.

What for? Why, a revolution. That's what.

Once you're done with your revolution will thought be allowed once more? Or is it one of those permanent revolutions? The kind that requires constant vigilance against the facts you don't like?

Bruce Hayden said...

Global warming is a fact. The belief part is whether or not you think mankind is causing it.

And why do you believe this? Have you done the research yourself? Do you believe anything that you are told to believe? Anything that someone with a PhD behind their name tells you to believe?

I find it interesting that while relativity, quarks, etc. are considered theories, now AGW is considered a "fact".

Palladian said...

Seriously, that breaks the record for multifaceted hilariousness.

Baron Zemo said...

"Ritmo Brasileiro said...
You know what else is efficient, TG? Unemployment. It's incredibly efficient."

So true dear boy.

If only the President did not love it so.

He must because he has created so many unemployed by destroying so many business.

Now it is the oil companies turn in the barrel.

The Oil Barrel.

Ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha!

Old Dad said...

Ritmo,

You don't know epistemology from your pie hole. Save your selfrighteous wanking.

Bruce Hayden said...

If only the President did not love it so.

He must because he has created so many unemployed by destroying so many business
.

This is, indeed, a proven fact, that the Obama Administration and the Democrat controlled Congress have indeed destroyed so many businesses and that is why the current recession is so pernicious.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Sorry Obama couldn't jerry-rig the economy to produce the next value-less bubble for us to believe we could use to scrap our way out of this, Baron - the way the Republicans pretend we can.

Trooper York said...

I thought epistemology was that laser thingy for the hairy broads?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

I know that all you are is pie-hole, Old Dick-hug.

And I shan't apologize for the fact that you were intimidated by a "big" word, you silly ass-hat.

Now go shut your pie-hole.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

I think that's electrolysis.

traditionalguy said...

Et tu Ritmo? ... Unemployment will disappear the year after a flat tax is enacted and we start to drill baby drill. The favorite product of Universities today is the Master's Degree in Business Administration. The human resources are ready...let's give them access to capital and a favorable tax environment.

mesquito said...

I read the word "epistomology" on a blog last week. Now I use it all the time.

JAL said...

It's a way to get back at the red and purple states of the Evil South.

If it weren't for AC, the South would never have risen. Period.

Hot Lanta? A ghost town except for Coca Cola. You think CNN would be there? Hahahahaha ...

wv punishl
Really.

Baron Zemo said...

No need for you to apologize for our Dear Leaders failure to fix anything.

I would be quite impressed if he could even fix himself a sandwich but I fear it is quite beyond his limited capacity.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

The internet has flattened value across the board and the Masters of Business Abolition who ran Wall Street into the ground (and extorted their way around any reform or recovery) were exposed as of late 2008.

The question is, where does value come from now?

You guys don't seem to grasp this and think that demand can just be created as from a spigot in the ground - as long as the government jerry rigs the variables the right way by placing the spigot in the right area of dirt.

It's a nonsensical idea, and nothing more than an article of faith.

Deborah said...

I lived without a/c for 34 years in the South. I do not intend to ever do without it again.

"Dig a hole in the ground until the temperature is a comfortable 55℉ in your hole. Live in it."
Makes a handy final resting place, too. Two for one

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

You might want to try learning to spell it right, first Mesquito.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Anyways, as far as Ann's rules go, I abide by the first 2 pretty well and somewhat by the 5th. As for the others, it's a given that renewable energy absolutely will not, cannot provide for them.

Why?

We ask not why. We are believers of the faith of Althousism.

El Pollo Real said...

Deborah wrote: Two for one

It's called halving it all. :)

OMG, I just noticed how much Thomas Friedman looks like Thorstein Veblen: link

Michael said...

Montagne Montaigne: Global warming is a fact, you say. OK. How much warmer is it? Fahrenheit, please.

Also you note: "Did you know there are ways to build houses and other buildings so they stay cool without relying on air conditioning?" Why, yes, I did MM. I live in one that was built over 150 years ago in a part of the country that is hot as hell. Now tell me why don't people build cool houses like this anymore? Do you think it is to purposely fuck up the earth or do you think it is a secret conspiracy of right wingers to sell air conditioners? I will tell you why, MM. Those houses are very very expensive to build. My house, for example, has 25 foot ceilings. Try that out on your local contractor and see the look you get. Or build yourself a hay bale house down here in the hot country and see how that works.

I lived through all those summers in the sweet sunny south without air and I suppose everyone else could as well if they had to. They would be better off if they had 25 foot ceilings, however.

former law student said...

The old houses in Key West are quite pleasant without AC, and you can't get any further south than that in CONUS: wraparound porches upstairs and down, shading the living rooms, (sub)tropical breezes, windows on all four sides for cross-ventilation. In California, thick adobe walls, tile floors, wide overhangs -- look at pictures of Stanford to see what can be done.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Can we call the Flat Tax bill the "King Midas" bill?

I call the Bush II economy the goose that laid the golden egg.

And then the first 1/32nd of an inch rubbed away and we found out there was tin inside.

But hey, let's keep cutting taxes to negative infinity. At some point, it will have to be the permanent answer to everything.

Michael said...

Ritmo: Those nasty Wall Streeters raised an IPO for an electric car company. Is that a good thing or a bad thing for the evil Wall Street people to have done? Or could the electric car company just have raised the capital without them using, say, hope?

traditionalguy said...

Ritmo...I agree that labor unions are necessary because they are like a high priced lawyer for a group that can be abused without that right to organise. I was a Teamster for two summer jobs. But mandatory membership and card check provisions also make people who are happy with their bosses also pay a Union. The legal monopolies granted a Teacher, a Doctor, a Lawyer, an Airline Pilot, ann air Traffic Controller and others liscensed by the State make a Union into a blackmail/extortion enterprise.

Michael said...

FLS: It doesn't get hot in Stanford, for Christ's sake. I lived up the road for a few years in Atherton and it never ever got hot. Hot is 95 or above. fyi.

Old Dad said...

Ritmo,

Define it pussy, and then demonstrate how a commenter's epistemology was primitive. You'd have been better off just contemplating your pie hole, but you seem to enjoy getting your ass thumped, so wank on.

Christy said...

Oh, my! I don't believe in anthropogenic global warming and I do make an effort to minimize air conditioning. I'm having an identity crisis!

MM, I agree, we can build to make our homes more energy efficient. Just as we can drill in ANWAR and leave a small environmental footprint. Wouldn't you agree? Just think of the jobs program we could fund to rebuild all those high rises and government buildings?

FWIW years ago utilities were building model homes to demonstrate new technologies for energy efficiency (climate control, dish washing, clothes washing, and the like.) The CEO of one utility, when building his new CEO worthy home was gung ho to make it the very top in energy efficiency. He found he couldn't afford it.

Althouse, you feminist, you didn't include:

Hanging up laundry to dry outside in all weather.

Forget energy consuming vacuum cleaners, learn to sweep again, and to hang rugs outside to beat the dirt out of them. (Don't need calisthenics to keep in shape.)

Reel lawnmowers. And for goodness sake, rake up the grass clippings to use as mulch! Eschew bags of mulch at the H&G store trucked in from halfway across the country.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

For your reading pleasure, TG.

The people are catching on.

El Pollo Real said...

Ritmo wrote: You know what else is efficient, TG? Unemployment. It's incredibly efficient.

Well it has helped to stem the illegal problem-at least out here.

El Pollo Real said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JAL said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
traditionalguy said...

Ritmo...You are right that everything except a Marxist Command economy is an article of faith. As soon as people put investments into new businesses ON FAITH in a profit that will not be stolen as Taxes, then there follows a great reawakening of faith.

JAL said...

Hey Garage! Some common sense!

Well done.

wv ration
Again, I do not lie.

gk1 said...

Didn't President Short Pants tell us we could save billions of barrels of oil by properly inflating our tires? Why all of a sudden do we have to get rid of A/C now? I thought the conversion to the green energy economy would not cost anyone a cent. What happened????

Michael said...

Good news on the progressive front: the first of the rigs on the Gulf have sailed away to a place where they can be of use to its owners. And however many people who once worked on that rig are now unemployed. Probably permanently in the oil business. And the people who ran the boats that took them to the rig. And the people who sold the gas to the boat that went to the rig. Etc. But, hey, they are all just a bunch of redneck coonasses anyway, right?

former law student said...

Michael -- it's the style of the Stanford buildings I'm talking about. Those archway whaddyacallums. Those help beat the heat.

edutcher said...

If The Zero really believed in global warming, he wouldn't turn up the heat at the White House to 80.

In any case, I will turn off the AC when I see The Living Redwood sweating his guts out.

Which Tipper may be in the process of doing.

Montagne Montaigne said...

Global warming is a fact. The belief part is whether or not you think mankind is causing it.

"The science is settled", right up there with "War Is Peace, Hate Is Love", and, best of all, "Ignorance Is Strength".

Did you know there are ways to build houses and other buildings so they stay cool without relying on air conditioning?

Sure, but Jimmy Carter outlawed them.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Ritmo: Those nasty Wall Streeters raised an IPO for an electric car company. Is that a good thing or a bad thing for the evil Wall Street people to have done? Or could the electric car company just have raised the capital without them using, say, hope?

7/12/10 6:36 PM


You know, Michael, for someone who seems to be playing for the side that spent the better part of several decades decrying "class warfare" you really seem to be defining a side in this.

Now, remind me - why is preventing regulation that requires companies to back up what they lend with actual capital a jab against those with the capital to lend against start-ups?

The right has declared any reform off the table. I don't see why capital should allow you to write laws that make any valuation of what you have impossible. But maybe if I went to Dick Armey he could explain what I must have against start-ups and innovation to not get this point.

traditionalguy said...

Ritmo...I agree that labor unions are necessary because they are like a high priced lawyer for a group that can be abused without that right to organise. I was a Teamster for two summer jobs. But mandatory membership and card check provisions also make people who are happy with their bosses also pay a Union. The legal monopolies granted a Teacher, a Doctor, a Lawyer, an Airline Pilot, ann air Traffic Controller and others liscensed by the State make a Union into a blackmail/extortion enterprise.

This is a totally different subject, TG. Your enemy's friend is not your enemy. We're in the U.S., not Saudi Arabia. We can differentiate topics, I would hope.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

And then there was that squeaky little shit who had nothing to say, but I won't lump his resentment in with Michael and TG, who are capable of proposing decent arguments when they want to.

Bruce Hayden said...

But hey, let's keep cutting taxes to negative infinity. At some point, it will have to be the permanent answer to everything.

I would be interested in which tax rates have been cut by this Administration and Congress. I can probably find you a dozen at least that have been raised, with a lot more coming at the end of the year, when the Bush Tax Cuts expire.

And, I would be interested in any historical examples you can find where raising taxes in the midst of a recession helped get us out of the recession any faster.

Michael said...

FLS: I understand that three foot thick adobe or faux adobe walls do a lot to beat the heat. The problem is that people can't afford three foot thick adobe walls. They can't afford twenty foot ceilings. I am talking about hot places, places like the deep south or the deep south west where it is hot for long stretches of time. The pussies in NY collapse after a week or two of hot weather. I'm talking ten weeks, twelve weeks of 90 plus with high humidity. Now the people who lived in the thick adobe buildings and the homes with the high ceilings were rich people. Poor people burned up. They sat on the porch all night. They wet their sheets. I am talking hot weather.

JAL said...

Seriously. We live in the mountains. Our first house had no AC but stayed cool even in the summer ... until 5 o'clock when the heat finally settle in through the trees. We used an attic fan to suck air through the little house. Not always comfortable, but no huge electric bills.

Now we have a heat pump (central air) in a bigger house. We also have a big attic fan, and haven't used the AC yet this year. (Husband is cheap). We can live with it being in the low 80s inside (90s outside) if we run the fan.

Are buildings often too cold? Yes. I have no idea who / what's in charge, but I have to take a jacket with me if we go out to eat.

But we lived in India for 4 years. When it is over 100 degrees every single day with a cloudless sky --- you shut everything down (including businesses) and lay low until tea time.

A lot has changed since then. I believe AC has helped India enter the developed world industrially & economically. Without it, it could never have made the transition.

This guy Cox teaches in Kansas -- so he knows hot. His doctorate was done on Indian (East) agriculture. I think he stayed out in the sun too much, myself.

Are all lefties hypocrits or Luddites?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Ritmo...You are right that everything except a Marxist Command economy is an article of faith. As soon as people put investments into new businesses ON FAITH in a profit that will not be stolen as Taxes, then there follows a great reawakening of faith.

I can't believe you saw this as sarcasm.

It's faith to believe that endless growth and insatiable demand are givens - especially when you disregard the value of your return.

Economists even debate such assumptions.

You seem to love putting more stock in what the business-owner has to lose than in what the consumer actually has to gain. Do you see that as a one-way relationship or something?

Cedarford said...

"former law student said...
In the North, to save on natural gas, when there was a cold snap, I would just invite a bunch of friends over, and their body heat would be sufficient. What's the airconditioning equivalent of that?"


Considering "your friends" had to drive many miles to "keep you warmer" I venture to say that driving around with your windows open to avoid staying at home and burdening the planet with more CO2 would be an analogy.
Also, when discussing this tactic as a carbon-saver, do you account for the carbon used to create the Mazola Oil, plastic tarps, and 3 rental sheep you used?

===============
Meade/Althouse carbon-saving tip #7.
Collect tar balls harvested using only organic, carbon neutral tools. Deliver them to Wisconsin by sailboat or solar-powered car. Walk to the garbage dump and recycle old glass containers.

Everytime you poop or create garden waste or have food scraps - put it all in your recycled glass containers. Seal with the collected tar balls.
Walk to the dump with the full glass containers and after explaining to the dump attendent what you are doing, ask him to bury them taking care not to break any.

This is a carbon sequestration technique that might help save the Polar bears.

bagoh20 said...

Russian Roulette reduces carbon footprints by 16.7% per game. They're the lucky ones in the new green world.

Michael said...

Ritmo: "Now, remind me - why is preventing regulation that requires companies to back up what they lend with actual capital a jab against those with the capital to lend against start-ups?"

There appear to be several non sequiturs here. Companies that lend back up what they lend with the capital they lend. Perhaps you meant borrowers should back up what they borrow with real collateral. But I am not sure you know what you mean.

An IPO raises equity, not debt so I am not sure what your second sentence means either.

Bruce Hayden said...

Now, remind me - why is preventing regulation that requires companies to back up what they lend with actual capital a jab against those with the capital to lend against start-ups?

Interesting. I didn't know that banks and similar financial institutions could lend without reserves. Must be something new. Is allowing them to do this in the vaunted financial industry "reform" that you are so enamored with?

The right has declared any reform off the table. I don't see why capital should allow you to write laws that make any valuation of what you have impossible. But maybe if I went to Dick Armey he could explain what I must have against start-ups and innovation to not get this point.

Well, maybe reform written by the architects of the present financial meltdown, Dodd and Franks, at the behest of their financial contributors, and without any Republican input, then yes.

You need to explain yourself a bit better here. Why impossible? Why Dick Armey? He hasn't been in Congress for awhile. Is this like blaming George Bush (43) for this recession, plus the one he inherited from Clinton, global warming, Al Gore's sexual escapades, etc.?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

I would be interested in which tax rates have been cut by this Administration and Congress. I can probably find you a dozen at least that have been raised, with a lot more coming at the end of the year, when the Bush Tax Cuts expire.

And, I would be interested in any historical examples you can find where raising taxes in the midst of a recession helped get us out of the recession any faster.


1. The recession's ended. Fact. Period. End of story. Economics and all that.

2. Whatever's set to sunset is no worse than what Reagan or Bush I actually raised.

3. At some point, empiric reality will have to set in. The government has to cut, and we need specific numbers - which the right and their "Tea Parties" refuse to offer. But just the theory of what to do when is no excuse for the recklessness that each Republican administration since Reagan has done.

We had the chance to cut spending and the right has always refused. They can't be taken seriously when they say tax cuts are their economic prescription. These are just political give-aways and probably always were. When fiscal responsibility results from any Republican administration, let me know. I'll be all ears, all eyes, and my jaw will drop.

Old Dad said...

Ritmo,

Define it dipshit. Defend your silly argument. What is epistemology, and how is your target's primitive?

In no specific order, Ritmo will wave hands and run away.

bagoh20 said...

In So. Ca. air conditioning is called opening the windows. When it's cool, wear a sweater. That's all that's ever needed.

On the other hand, the legislature is busy changing the state rock because the current one can, very rarely, contain asbestos. The lawyers want to sue landowners. I just love lawyers.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Michael, I'm sure you understand the difference between venture capital firms and the commercial institutions that could merge with banks following Phil Gramm's Great Experiment in Redoing History. You can allow me some liberties in drawing connections where they apply and not pretending I drew them where they don't.

The point is that Republicans are blocking reform. The financial sector is what is out of whack, and the laws that regulate it need to be re-written. Don't pretend that's too complicated for me to understand. The availability of venture capital is not the point and you know it. The point is how capital operates in a larger sense - as it did at AIG. If you dispute that then it would be nice if you could find a single economist to support your theory.

bagoh20 said...

It's deja vu all over again. Lets get some Billy Beer!

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

O.D. (B.?)

You're not serious and you never intended to learn how to be taken seriously. There's no point in debating you. You only want people here who will sign a loyalty oath and agree to agree with what you want to hear beforehand.

You're not worth taking seriously.

Matthew said...

When are the Watermelons (Green on the outside, Red on the inside, all wet and slightly slimy, througout) finally going to realize that their arguments are all so much bullshit?

1. Carbon Dioxide is not a poison; it is necessary for the continuation of Life on Planet Earth. None of us would be here, especially panty-bunched, emaciated, sanctimonious Greens, were it not for good 'ol CO2! Remove CO2 from the atmosphere, and you are potentially dooming millions of species, including the precious dolphins, whales and rain forest plants, to death.

You just hope to starve or die of asphyxiation last,I guess?

2. The "Save Gaia!" crowd seem to be making the argument that there was once a "Golden Age", where climatic conditions must have been optimal for "sustainable growth", and that somehow, they know how to return to it. The Garden of Eden? I thought that was a stupid Christian construct based on superstition.

3. They assume that Man can eventually exert a level of control over his environment and planet that will enable us to intentionally freeze (no pun intended) history/life at a specific, climatically-optimum point in time, and then continue to maintain that state of affairs in perpetuity.

Of course, that won't require any energy at all, will it?

These ideas dicount the Theory of Evolution (something most Greens hold dearer than the Ten Commandments), that this planet is still geologically-active and constantly recycling/reshaping itself, and that the universe is not a static place and we're just as likely to be destroyed/transformed by a comet as we are "Global Warming/Freezing".

Incidentally, the same idiots typically accuse Conservatives of "living in the past","wanting to turn back the clock", and ridicule them for their quaint notions of Heavenly Paradise and views on Creation.

Why, talkto any ardent Green, and you would swear you were talking to a 17th century Calvinist, except that they wouldn't use the word "God" to justify their stupidity.

It's hard to take any of them seriously, so I don't.

Jeff said...

I didn't see anyone else mention it, but vigorous physical exercise (#2 above) will lead to excessive exhalation of CO2, which as we all know is bad for Mother Earth.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Interesting. I didn't know that banks and similar financial institutions could lend without reserves. Must be something new. Is allowing them to do this in the vaunted financial industry "reform" that you are so enamored with?

Current proposals include backing up financial reserves with a percentage of reserves large enough to prevent the "too big to fail" scenario. It's a damn sight better than anything the right proposed and I wouldn't be surprised if this (or any attempts at reform) have caught you off-guard.

Well, maybe reform written by the architects of the present financial meltdown, Dodd and Franks, at the behest of their financial contributors, and without any Republican input, then yes.

Praytell what ingenious ideas for reform that the republicans have are being sequestered?

They don't have any. It's all a ploy and a gimmick to make sure Wall Street knows who their real benefactors in Washington are.

Why Dick Armey? He hasn't been in Congress for awhile.

The Leader and Chief Architect of the Tea Parties is a model when it comes to having a lot of anger, a lot of political energy to give away to Wall Street, and no substance, and no intention in hell of governing responsibly.

He's right where he's always been. Making noise and mischief and ruining the republic without any intention of ever getting anything done. Pity the Tea Partiers who follow him and dance, like a bunch of marionettes, to the tune he plays don't realize this.

bagoh20 said...

"The "Save Gaia!" crowd seem to be making the argument that there was once a "Golden Age", where climatic conditions must have been optimal for "sustainable growth""

Well, that part is right, but unfortunately for their argument, it was a warmer period than now. Plants were larger, animals were larger, the number of species was larger and more widely distributed.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Interesting. I didn't know that banks and similar financial institutions could lend without reserves. Must be something new. Is allowing them to do this in the vaunted financial industry "reform" that you are so enamored with?

Current proposals include requiring financial firms to back up their value on paper with a percentage of reserves large enough to prevent the "too big to fail" scenario. It's a damn sight better than anything the right proposed and I wouldn't be surprised if this (or any attempts at reform) have caught you off-guard.

Well, maybe reform written by the architects of the present financial meltdown, Dodd and Franks, at the behest of their financial contributors, and without any Republican input, then yes.

Praytell what ingenious ideas for reform that the republicans have are being sequestered?

They don't have any. It's all a ploy and a gimmick to make sure Wall Street knows who their real benefactors in Washington are.

Why Dick Armey? He hasn't been in Congress for awhile.

The Leader and Chief Architect of the Tea Parties is a model when it comes to having a lot of anger, a lot of political energy to give away to Wall Street, and no substance, and no intention in hell of governing responsibly.

He's right where he's always been. Making noise and mischief and ruining the republic without any intention of ever getting anything done. Pity the Tea Partiers who follow him and dance to the tune he plays don't realize this.

Old Dad said...

Ritmo whined, furiously waving hands before running away,

"You're not serious and you never intended to learn how to be taken seriously. There's no point in debating you. You only want people here who will sign a loyalty oath and agree to agree with what you want to hear beforehand."

You're not worth taking seriously."

Now dry those tears. Lot's of dipshits make indefensible claims and then run away.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

I don't debate idiots, Old Dad.

Or poets, for that matter - of which you're a poor example.

bagoh20 said...

Consider yourself lucky, Old Dad. It's a tedious and pointless exercise anyway.

Old Dad said...

Ritmo, while soiling himself, comments:

"I don't debate idiots, Old Dad.

Or poets, for that matter - of which you're a poor example."

Hand waving--running away.

QED

former law student said...

Michael -- Have you priced clay lately? You'll probably find out it's dirt cheap. And straw isn't that expensive, either.

But if you want a stick-built house I recommend the Key West style.

http://www.keywesttravelguide.com/key-west-house.jpg

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

It's a tedious and pointless exercise anyway.

So says the guy who thinks every AMERICAN should be willing to bet the removal of his testicles on the cause of fighting terrorism.

And, despite THAT, I'm supposed to believe you have the best interests of the economy and the unemployed at heart and within a sound mind?

Give me a break.

former law student said...

No one has commented on the part of the article explaining the benefits of a climate that drove legislators away every summer, giving us all a break from excess legislation.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

QED

That you're an idiot? No need to demonstrate. I always knew.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Anyone who says he's willing to bet (and live with) the removal of testicles on the cause of how he prefers to fight terrorism, effectively removes himself from credibly debating any aspect of public policy in a nation of non-eunuchs.

I mean, shouldn't that much be evident?

Not that I don't give you credit for trying, Bag O.

Old Dad said...

Ritmos gasps while running away, a trail of urine behind him:

"QED

That you're an idiot? No need to demonstrate. I always knew."

Run Forrest.

Matthew said...

@Ritmo,

Having spent 20+ years on Wall Street, I can tell you that you are seriously missing the point (which one? Well, basically all of them).

The recent financial downturn was not caused by a lack of regulation, or an inability to rein in speculation, nor was it caused by a lack of reserves (although these did get very low in many institutions).

The problem is a Cultural one. Wall Street is a culture of envelope-pushers and opportunists, and government is full of people who take money from envelope- pushers and opportunists. Government created the problem with silly notions about "everyone having a home", keeping intrest rates artificially-low (Your bank borrows at 1% or less, and then dishes that money back to you with a 22%+ credit card), and by failing in it's responsibilities to exercise responsible oversight. Even the oversight it was required BY LAW to do.

The Traders, Brokers and CEO's simply took advantage of an advantageous situation (one that they paid for,naturally): it's what they do for a living, you know. The more they got away with it, the further they pushed the bound sof safety and propriety

And they were rewarded for it, too -- with TARP. Because they bought that along with the politicians.

The new regulations mean nothing; within a decade, at most, Wall Street will spread enough wealth around world capitals to ensure that whatever Obama builds today, it will eventually be dismantled brick-by-brick.

If you want to stop that symbiotic process between capital and governance and bring about fairness in the marketplace, the government is the least useful mechanism. What works is consumers telling the marketplace what it wants, and how it wants it, and keeping the politicians out of people's wallets.

Bruce Hayden said...

1. Carbon Dioxide is not a poison; it is necessary for the continuation of Life on Planet Earth. None of us would be here, especially panty-bunched, emaciated, sanctimonious Greens, were it not for good 'ol CO2! Remove CO2 from the atmosphere, and you are potentially dooming millions of species, including the precious dolphins, whales and rain forest plants, to death.

I think by now that the reason that CO2 was picked for this exercise is its connection to fossil fuels. And, the goal all along of the environmental left has been to limit and eliminate to the extent possible fossil fuels. Combining this with an effective continuing ban on nuclear power, the result would be a return to nature, with the cost being born by the western world, as the 2nd and 3rd world are given passes here from having to pull their won weight.

Michael said...

FLS: The vernacular architecture in Key West, the cracker style, is no different from houses all up the west coast of Florida into south Georgia and Alabama. High ceilings are the common element.

Hay bale construction in the wet south would probably not be good even with abundant clay. Local building codes also discourage lots of these techniques for reasons that elude me.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Despite my alleged ignorance, I do know that Paul Volker wanted to go a lot further in his proposals than Obama's team, let alone YOU.

That said, I trust him over someone who relegates the problem (and its proposed fix?) to culture alone.

You guys already tried fighting a culture war. Didn't work.

Do you ever learn from history?

Consumers are no less a part of the culture you decry than the traders. But they want to make money and have a right to do so no less than the traders do.

What they also have a right to, however, is transparency. Barring that, they have a right to make sure that no one gets too big to fail.

I don't care if opportunists with the means to take advantage of opacity are against transparency. In fact, I rather expect it.

What I care about is your lack of interest in correcting for that disadvantage - especially in an era where transparency is more available to us (or should be) than ever.

I suspect the only reason you argue that laws are meaningless is because you were allowed to operate under that assumption over so many years.

Bruce Hayden said...

Praytell what ingenious ideas for reform that the republicans have are being sequestered?

They don't have any. It's all a ploy and a gimmick to make sure Wall Street knows who their real benefactors in Washington are
.

Not sure if I understand your point here. Obviously, you agree that the Democrats have been their benefactors for quite some time now. But, I don't see how the Republicans gain by refusing to buy into the sort of financial "reform" being flogged right now. Those who were "too big to fail" know who controlled the smoke filled rooms in which this "reform" was drafted (i.e. Democrats in Congress), and who was excluded (i.e. Republicans).

The big problem with the "reform" is that it does no such thing. It burdens smaller financial institutions (the ones that are not too big to fail) with massive new requirements, while leaving the big players pretty much alone (because they were the ones at the table with the Democrats drafting the legislation).

mesquito said...

I grew up in the Canal Zone, Panama. The housed were mostly built in the 20s and 30s. They were built high (we parked under them), with enourmous windows and roof overhangs of at least four feet. There were some cinderblock models as well. We had window units that we switched on in the afternoons.

Then I moved to Texas and found out what hot is.

Bruce Hayden said...

Do you ever learn from history?

Which is apparently why the economic policies that extended the "Great Depression" throughout the entirety of the 1930s are being tried again, with, by most indications, similar results.

Michael said...

Ritmo: What disadvantage did the borrowers of subprime loans have that were undisclosed to them? That rates would go up? That the low floaters would evaporate and become fixed rate? That the initial rate was a "teaser" rate? Or is the fact that they made a bad bet on both the housing market and their own financial prospects? Because surely all the borrowers of subprime were not stupid. Surely the buyers of high priced homes that they could possibly afford were not stupid?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Surely the buyers of high priced homes that they could possibly afford were not stupid?

No. Just focused on different things. Specialization of labor and all that.

And what they apparently expect is to be bailed out - just the way your buddies on the Street expected to be bailed out.

There is asymmetric information in the world. You say deal with it. Others say we can deal with that information in a responsible way, rather than just by publishing dry facts and making believe that "caveat emptor" is a guarantee against patently unscrupulous business practices.

You say Wall Street will always be fine. I'm willing to agree that they've been coddled and that the housing fiasco was abetted by government.

Just because you want to say Wall Street is no more responsible than government or consumers, doesn't mean I'm willing to say that its relative power of the purse shouldn't be held to account in resolving the crisis and preventing it from happening.

I don't see anything wrong in that.

Bruce Hayden said...

If you want to stop that symbiotic process between capital and governance and bring about fairness in the marketplace, the government is the least useful mechanism. What works is consumers telling the marketplace what it wants, and how it wants it, and keeping the politicians out of people's wallets.

As I pointed out above, it is very illustrative that the same two members of Congress who had the greatest culpability for the financial meltdown are the ones writing the "reform" bill.

The problem with big government is always that, the symbiotic relationship between the regulated and the regulators, and that includes Congress. There is just too much money at stake when you have industries as big as oil and finance, and so it pays them to do whatever it takes to control their own regulation. That is why the big players in the financial industries were at the table when the financial "reform" bill was written, and the smaller financial institutions were not - they didn't have the money to play at that level.

Why is it that almost the entire top tier in the Democratic House leadership is corrupt? Because they long ago discovered how to trade political influence in regulating industries into wealth for themselves from those regulated industries. (IMHO - the Democrats running the Senate are, on average, cleaner since many more there were extremely wealthy before they were elected to the Senate - with the obvious exceptions of Reid and Dodd who weren't, and show the same symptoms as the House leadership does).

Bruce Hayden said...

BTW - the Republicans have not always been pure white when it comes to incestuous relations with regulated industries. When they took control of the House in 1994, one of the first things that Tom DeLay did was make sure that the vig was going to the Republicans, and not to the Democrats, as it had been for sixty years.

former law student said...

it is very illustrative that the same two members of Congress who had the greatest culpability for the financial meltdown are the ones writing the "reform" bill.

Phil Gramm is writing the Dems' reform bill? Get out of town!

Matthew said...

"What I care about is your lack of interest in correcting for that disadvantage - especially in an era where transparency is more available to us (or should be) than ever."

I want it corrected, but government is the wrong instrument for this purpose because it's overriding goal is to take rather than create. Govrnment usually puts obstacles in the way of creators (the better to tax activities). Only creation can save an economy in the toilet.

"I suspect the only reason you argue that laws are meaningless is because you were allowed to operate under that assumption over so many years."

Umm, no. I'm not a stockbroker (heaven forbid!). I am a system's programmer who designed, built and programed the very systems upon which all securities firms depend. See, I learned my economics by actually getting involved in the nuts and bolts of the thing and learning how money gets moved around; you probably just read books and paid for a diploma.

When you actually are surrounded by these people 16-hours a day, you learn three very important lessons:

a. Taken as a social group, most are, by nature, predatory, opportunistic, scheming, greedy, and convinced of their own superiority.

b. They will tell you, quite baldly, that there is no problem on Earth than can't be fixed with a strategic application of cash,and no opportunity that cannot be created by same.

c. That the Customer is valued only solong as he/she manages to contribute to the broker's personal bottom line. This does not apply to all (I did meet many professionals, but the douchebags outnumber them by a factor of 4 or 5-to-1).

d. People who can justify $16,000 umbrella stands and $6,000 shower curtains, and $200 million paydays for driving a company into the dirt, aren't detered by laws, or even common decency. It's all legal...right up until you get caught.

e. Compliance departments are notoriously lax. The SEC is a rubber stamp that very often can't even decipher the financial statements they're given. Congress can be depended upon to guard it's re-election war chests better than it does the Public Trust.

f. Business and government go hand-in-glove, despite all the talk of "Free Markets, they do not exist, because government regulates, taxes and advocates on behalf of/against Big Busines as it suits it's needs.

Pastafarian said...

Ritzy, I noticed that you didn't mention how closely you adhere to Althouse's 6th rule.

And I seem to recall you ridiculing us Althouse hillbillies for our parochialism because we hadn't traveled the world as much as you had.

How do you reconcile your fervent, passionate faith in anthropogenic global warming with your world travels? And how can you criticize those who don't travel as much? If we did, we'd destroy the Earth. Hell, maybe we'd destroy the entire solar system, since the surface temp of Mars has increased lately too.

My goodness, Ritzy...you're a...a....hypocrite.

The worst thing in the whole wide world, to a leftist.

Methadras said...

Oh dear God. The lame consternations that a modern people exhibit over a gas that only makes up .036% of total atmospheric volume.

Methadras said...

John Lynch said...

Yeah, this stuff isn't about results. It's about feeling good by self-righteously going without.

There is a word for reduced consumption. The word is "poverty." Why are so many people trying to make us poor?


It's all part of the neo-luddite movement that the leftard gaiaist trogs have adopted. New Age must die.

Matthew said...

...and that was SIX important lessons...

Pastafarian said...

How many amps is your PC drawing right now, Ritzy? And are you running your AC as we speak?

Somewhere, a tear is rolling down the cheek of the original Woodsy Owl.

Bruce Hayden said...

And what they apparently expect is to be bailed out - just the way your buddies on the Street expected to be bailed out.

Then you admit that the Democrats who bailed out their friends as too big to fail were wrong?

There is asymmetric information in the world. You say deal with it. Others say we can deal with that information in a responsible way, rather than just by publishing dry facts and making believe that "caveat emptor" is a guarantee against patently unscrupulous business practices.

I am never quite sure what is meant here. I hear a lot of hand waving about patently unscrupulous business practices, but it seems to mostly be just smoke. We heard the same thing with health care "reform" and the insurance companies - some of the most highly regulated companies in the country. But then we find that when the playing field is supposedly leveled by even more regulation, the insurance companies just fold their tents and shut down their operations in affected jurisdictions (notably, MA).

My guess is that this is a result of the Democrats pretending to defend the common man. Of course, they do no such thing, but rather, take massive bribes in the form of preferential deals and campaign contributions to write the regulatory laws to protect just those same companies that they just described as "predatory".

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Ritzy, I noticed that you didn't mention how closely you adhere to Althouse's 6th rule.

People who take AGW seriously don't have a problem with using energy. They have a problem with its derivation from unsustainable sources.

And people who pretend otherwise are liars.

Of course, I don't expect someone with such poor sense as to believe that his leather thong is in good taste to grasp such subtleties, let alone the fact that I have to agree with someone else's rules before "violating" them makes me a hypocrite.

Hagar said...

The most immediate reason for resisting the currently proposed finacial reform legislation is that it is being proposed by the very same people who engineered the current situation and are not willing to admit that they did.


wv: reiver - very apt, considering the present subject!

Pastafarian said...

I see, Ritzy. So you flew on one of those new solar jets. Those are awesome.

And you drove to the airport in a car that ran on pure, distilled smug self-righteousness.

Matthew said...

Democrats can stand in favor of The Poor, because they're so good at creating them in the first place.

Obama, Dodd, etc. will just created millions of more Poor, their natural voting bloc, with regulations that do not address the core issues; wrongdoing is almost never found until it is too late to do anything about it, the wrongdoers are never punished severely enough to make contemplating breaking ethics/the law a risky-enough venture to deter natural-born-risk-takers.

Pastafarian said...

So these rules aren't something that you'd impose upon all of us?

That's odd. I mean, if you really believed that life on earth was threatened by CO2, I assumed you'd think that a little regulation might be in order.

You must be some sort of ultra-rightwing libertarian then. Sorry, I had you confused with someone else.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

What's the mileage on your car, Barbarafarian?

With AGW, we're either as close as possible to being fucked or it doesn't matter any more, because the hobgoblins running about in small minds told the small-minded people that action and education were bad things, especially if the purity of the educators was anywhere near within the grasp of being questioned by a pundit or someone else with a more "earthy" agenda.

Matthew said...

"They have a problem with its derivation from unsustainable sources."

The chemical, biologic and geologic process that created those sources are still continuing to function, or did all of these processes suddenly come toascreeching halt while I was sleeping?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

So these rules aren't something that you'd impose upon all of us?

Well, upon everyone equally. It's called fairness. A tax would be the best way.

That's odd. I mean, if you really believed that life on earth was threatened by CO2, I assumed you'd think that a little regulation might be in order.

See above. Although perhaps it's too late.

You must be some sort of ultra-rightwing libertarian then. Sorry, I had you confused with someone else.

You don't know anything about me - or about anyone else for that matter, whose philosophies aren't so simple-minded that they can be reduced to a bumper sticker (like yours are).

KV said...

Sadly, this nation full of narcissists will drag the planet down, one degree at a time, rather than consider for one minute sacrificing one little thing to help out!
I sleep on a little cozy screen porch. At night, cool air from the hill to my north slides down the slope, thru my screen and keep me happy!

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

The chemical, biologic and geologic process that created those sources are still continuing to function, or did all of these processes suddenly come toascreeching halt while I was sleeping?

For someone who took crib-notes from stockbrokers (it's ok, my friend did the same as does quite well day-trading come recession or not), you seem to have trouble understanding a simple supply-demand mismatch.

Obviously, the dinosaurs who graciously supplied us with all that oil never had a demand that equals ours, right now, at this very point in history.

Matthew said...

Well, good for you, KV. That's you exercising your freedom of choice according to your conscience and beliefs.

I congratulate you for it, even if I don't agree with you.

Now, how about you kindly allow the rest of us the same courtesy?

Pastafarian said...

In actual practice, my Accord gets a decent 29mpg. It shuts down to 3 cylinders at cruising speed. A remarkable thing, really, getting that kind of mileage with something like 250hp and decent torque.

Not sure what that has to do with anything, though. I once drove a '72 Lincoln Continental that got about 3mpg.

Beautiful car. I miss that car. Son-of-a-bitch had automatic headlight dimmers. In 1972. Two tons of pure beauty. 460 cubic inches of awesome. And that's perfectly consistent with my attitude toward AGW -- that is, that it's pure bullshit.

The question is: Are your life choices consistent with your stated beliefs?

I take great pride in being an early occupant of the now-crowded anti-AGW bandwagon. Anyone with any knowledge of physics and a modicum of skepticism could have seen it for the Piltdown Man that it is.

And that very efficient Accord that I drive: I really doubt that it would exist today if engineering and metallurgy and CAD had been hamstrung by the Luddite stupidity of the Green religion.

Greenies are the quintessential "penny wise and pound foolish". You'll find very few engineers in the green movement, Ritzy. Mostly art and history majors.

former law student said...

And that's perfectly consistent with my attitude toward AGW -- that is, that it's pure bullshit.

Same way I feel about that "round earth" theory. Sure the earth is round; it's shaped like a disc. But no way is it spherical.

Pastafarian said...

Ritzy said: "You don't know anything about me..."

Au contraire, mon ami.

I've read your comments for quite a while, Ritzy, and I think that I know quite a few things about you. Taken in the aggregate, I'd say that I know you pretty well.

I know that you're quite intelligent, clever and quick, quite knowledgeable in certain subjects like biology. But you have some gaps in your knowledge, particularly in physics and economics. And you're either unaware of these gaps, or you're unwilling to admit them.

And you like to build yourself up by tearing other people down. You're not really concerned with convincing others of your opinions, as much as you are proving how intelligent you are.

So you come across as a real asshole at times. I doubt that you're really that much of an asshole, but it's how you seem here.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

You'll find very few engineers in the green movement, Ritzy.

Instead, you'll find them being laid off by the short-sighted morons who manufactured your Lincoln Continental. The dumb ones anyway. Before the foreign competitors got some of them to change their tune and the rest to prove they weren't interested in staying in business.

Engineers are not known for having much more foresight than their manager tells them to have. Thinking for themselves is an option, and in some cases, a luxury.

Invention ain't what it used to be.

Matthew said...

Dude! There's no supply-demand mismatch. The dinosaurs weren't the only source of fossil fuels -- there were plants and other animals, too you know. Matter decays and transforms all the time,leaving behind nice lumps of coal, pools of oil and enough natural gas to fill even your windbag.

Walk around Saudi Arabia or Western Pennsylvania sometime; you'll find the shit bubbling up out of the ground, even in places where no one's pumping it anymore.

Try this one on for size: in my city (New York) we once had the world's largest garbage dump outside of Mumbai (oh, wait...that garbage dump WAS Mumbai).

When the landfill was finally closed (in 2000), it was postulated that all that decaying garbage would create enough methane gas to light New York for the next 200 years, and the local utility companies spent enormous sums of money toacquire the rights to tap this fabulous "renewable resource"...

...except that New York City and State would rather collect property taxes, and instead "reclaimed" that landfill (it covered it over in plastic and dirt) so that housing developments could be built all over it (as a sop to the "No Development" crowd, they included a few parks in the deal).

So, two birds with one stone;

a) Government can be counted upon to do that which brings it more money andpower, and which shafts the citizen, every time

b) energy sources are created...without dinosaurs...every day by natural processes that are still operating.

Ready to give up yet?

Pastafarian said...

FLS, I'm pretty sure that the spherical earth theory has been confirmed by observation. I must have missed that proof of AGW. Was that in the IPCC report?

Howard said...

Bag 'O

Thanks for the Cali state Rock tip. Serpentine will always be the state Rock, no matter what the East LA maricona wants. Nero, Burn, Fiddle. Rome.

We don nee no stinkin AC. Why?

Because where I live, it is cool in the summer and warm in the winter. The conservative solution for all of you Jeff Davis fans is to amp-up your free-market skilz to afford the real estate cost of open-aire summer cooling and winter heating.

I know it's hard, but for those of you whose parents were not so closely related... it is a dream that has come true for many of your station, if you act now.

"They" call it a "Mediterranean" climate. It takes the brains and balls to bring the green to this party. (I'm not talking about the AC-dependant $hitholes like pasadena, riverside or northridge)

When you get the real heavy sac, you can move out of So Cal Coast to Cen Cal Coast and live with true Gaia banana-belt blessing.

Howard said...

Ritmo:

Jus 'cause you is wallowin wid dah altmeade kuntz don call fo yo own kuntzness.

Stick to what yo know.

Ya feel me?

former law student said...

Faith-based science means I can ignore anything I don't want to hear.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

But you have some gaps in your knowledge, particularly in physics and economics. And you're either unaware of these gaps, or you're unwilling to admit them.

I doubt you know more physics than me. On the relevant stuff, Gabe Hanna and I were in agreement. And he sure as shit knew more than you on that.

Economics is a human study, prone to manipulation by infinitely more variables, and with fewer clear answers on much of anything. Get back to me when human nature becomes as consistent as you wish it were or when economics becomes as predictive of what you want it to predict.

And you like to build yourself up by tearing other people down.

Hey. Just going by the modus operandi accepted by everyone else here. I wouldn't want to not fit in on account of persuasion alone.

You're not really concerned with convincing others of your opinions, as much as you are proving how intelligent you are.

Opinions are opinions and facts are facts. Intelligent people can debate what I've concluded from available facts, even if you don't.

There are others here, however, who aren't so easily threatened.

So you come across as a real asshole at times. I doubt that you're really that much of an asshole, but it's how you seem here.

Image is everything in Althouse-land.

I wonder if some of you guys ever give much thought to how you're perceived elsewhere, though.

And especially coming from a guy dressed as a lost groupie from the band GWAR. If civil behavior (let alone civilization) was your aim, Pasta, I daresay you might "appear" to achieve that more credibly with a different avatar, at the very least.

My only demand is substance. And at least a few here are more than capable of providing it.

Pastafarian said...

Ritzy said: "Engineers are not known for having much more foresight than their manager tells them to have."

Comfort yourself with that thought the next time you strap yourself into your seat before your flight on your next lavish and worldly vacation.

Better yet, calculate the odds that you'd land safely, had the landing gear been designed by biologists, or pure physicists, or womyn's studies majors.

"...the short-sighted morons who manufactured your Lincoln Continental..."

Heresy. Have you ever seen a '72 Lincoln? This thing was deep, dark blue, and about 9 yards long. It looked like the night sky itself rolling down the road. Jesus, I miss that car.

cookasia said...

Cedarford, you obviously don't live in Houston or Washington, DC, where summer heat is swamplike. Go without AC? You would go nuts....

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

b) energy sources are created...without dinosaurs...every day by natural processes that are still operating.

At what rate? And at what rate relative to demand?

Ready to give up yet?

On quantitation? I think not.

Howard said...

If you really believed in *catastrophic* Global Warming, you would offer up your daughter to Obama for New Cue Lar power.

QED

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Although a sixth mass extinction might drastically increase that rate. Hopefully the expense of a dead ocean won't get in the way too much, though.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Anyone who thinks one person's personal choices alone would impact AGW hereby absolves himself of having anything credible to say that even remotely involves mathematics.

Darren Lenard Hutchinson said...

Ha Ha!!! Very funny. Two other responses are here:

A World Without Air Conditioning

and

Speaking of Simplistic Solutions to Complex Problems

Matthew said...

Better car, Pasta:

My grandfather's 1973 Buick Electra 225. Got about 7 feet to the gallon, seated 8, and had a trunk big enough to put any modern-day SUV or Flatbed to shame vis-a-vis cargo capacity.

It was a lovely shade of pearl grey, and grand pa -- a mechanic by trade -- kept that thing running and looking sharp well into the 1990's, when he finally broke down and bought that great big Delta '88.

Or...

My father's 1969 Pontiac Catalina convertible, in candy-apple red, with the greatest black-leather interior you ever smelled. The only things missing from that car were the triple banks of oars, and the guy beating the drum yelling "Ramming Speed!".

Pastafarian said...

Well, Ritzy, I've studied physics in the classroom and in the real world for my whole life, and I'm not at all convinced that increasing the concentration of a trace gas that captures only very narrow frequency ranges of electromagnetic radiation would be enough to increase temperature significantly.

In fact, I know for a certainty that it won't. I took a couple of astrophysics courses, and we actually did these calculations. I can picture my professor, I think his name was Adolf Witte, scribbling them onto the chalkboard. We were primarily concerned with Venus, where the atmospheric density is great enough to make the greenhouse gas nontrivial, but just for shits and giggles, Witte ran through hypothetical CO2 (and methane, and water vapor) increases for earth.

And that dog don't hunt, dude.

What you're seeing with the tracking of CO2 and temperature is the reverse cause-effect relationship -- you're seeing dissolved CO2 leaving the oceans as temperature increases.

So don't feel so guilty about that trip to Paris, buddy.

Howard said...

For all you shit-heads out there, oil comes from anaerobic decomposition of phytoplankton and zooplankton. Plant material is primary for coal which is mostly from the Carboniferous geologic period greater than 300 million years ago. (that's last week to you birthers)

Howard said...

Ritmo:

Dead ocean is from Agriculture and human turd plants, not Globo Warmering

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Ritzy said: "Engineers are not known for having much more foresight than their manager tells them to have."

Comfort yourself with that thought the next time you strap yourself into your seat before your flight on your next lavish and worldly vacation.


I wish I could, but history tells me that management decisions have a much greater impact on engineering than you want to believe. Ever hear of the Corvair?

An entire industry was impacted by that lesson. Or maybe, the tip of several icebergs were exposed.

And who manufactured Deep Horizon's faults? Who made that decision?

Let's be a little more realistic.

Howard said...

Pasta:

So you don't believe in radiation physics and Plank.

Your Kunt smelz to hi heaven. Physics my ass.

former law student said...

For all you shit-heads out there, oil comes from anaerobic decomposition of phytoplankton and zooplankton.

Ah, another faith-based scientist. Welcome, brother.

Howard said...

Hey Ritmo, you were doing so well, then started to spin out of control.

Corvair??

Sunk by an asexual lawyer mamma's boy... management and engineer conflict is bunk.

Tell us how bad the engineers made the computer and networks you are communicating with millions over the world are.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

P-Guy: Unlike some here, I don't take scientific understandings to be either: (1) The end-all be-all of truth, or (2) Propaganda and lies.

I take them to be somewhere closer to (1), but not infallible.

I also don't see what's wrong with acting cautiously or urging caution when it comes to altering the composition of one's atmosphere.

Is there a reason why I shouldn't?

Ritmo Brasileiro said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Matthew said...

"At what rate? And at what rate relative to demand?"

I assume you're asking because you don't know the answer to that, either. If either of us could calculate that, we wouldn't be here trading barbs; we'd owna tropical island some place and would be living the high-life.

You can only begin to make arguments about rates and relationships if you have a quantifiable baseline, in this case, just HOW MUCH oil, gas and coal are still beneath the Earth's crust waiting to be exploited.

Since you cannot quantify the available supply (that would require an exact number, and you don't have one, see?), you cannot make the argument that a supply is "finite".

But, things are dying and decaying and being transformed into fossil fuels every day, and therefoee, supply is being added second-by-second, you just can't see it, and refuse to admit that the ecosystem works in a way that is contrary to your belief.

As for the counter "but you can't see it, either!", the next time you get on a plane, come and see me and I'll show you places where oil is being extracted -- by new technology -- from fields "the experts" all say ran dry 70 years ago.

Pastafarian said...

Ritzy said: "Ever hear of the Corvair?"

Heard of one? Brother, I owned one. '66 hardtop with the automatic transmission. The gear shift was a little toggle switch on the dashboard.

Not my favorite car. The air-cooled flat six burned oil like a bastard and smelled like model airplane glue, and the suspension was a little "rocky" -- the thing would rock forward and back going over bumps like a buggy.

But "unsafe at any speed"? Hardly. It was downright maneuverable compared to the Lincoln. Now, that flat 6 put out about 120hp, so I won't call it sporty. But it was an interesting and innovative little car.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

Who is this insane "Howard" moby and what makes him believe that safety issues in automotive design can be compared with a typing machine?

Leather Daddy said...

Another way to beat the heat is an ice dildo.

Ritmo Brasileiro said...

I'll show you places where oil is being extracted -- by new technology -- from fields "the experts" all say ran dry 70 years ago

Why does the state of knowledge in 1940 become the standard for discussions in 2010?

Howard said...

Ritmo:

Yes, there is a reason not to act on Globo Warmering.

Notice, since CO2 spewing, health and longevity flourished.

The third world could use some of that carbon love.

The catastrophic aspect of global warming climate change is 100% politics. If you are inclined to trust science , you are not a scientist.

former law student said...

Since you cannot quantify the available supply (that would require an exact number, and you don't have one, see?), you cannot make the argument that a supply is "finite".


Another faith-based scientist!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEUFAqoh2MM

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