Some people think the the rules don't apply to them... including some people who got big and famous amusing us with revelations of the way some people think the rules don't apply to them. It's so hilarious.
IN THE COMMENTS: Crack Emcee says:
What's wrong with you people? James O'Keefe did America a big favor once, and I'll wait to hear what he was fishing for this time before I condemn him or call him stupid. If he has a legal defense fund, I'm in. Why should he pay for doing what the media refuses to do? That kid's a hero. Investigative journalism ain't no "15 minutes of fame" bullshit, it's serious business - y'all need to get serious as well.UPDATE: Patterico reads the government's affadavit and finds the early reports misleading.
I support good people - not goodie-goodie - and James O'Keefe's contribution to this latest incarnation of conservatism - The Tea Party Movement - can't be overstated. It's bigger than Scott Brown's, though Brown was in a better situation to have an impact, because these were kids - acting when nobody else would - proving to the world we were right about the corruption of ACORN all along. That was the crack in liberalism's facade and you know it.
This young man realigned our political world. Like I said, I'm with him until I hear more. The fact the rest of you have to think about it, or are assuming anything already, gives me pause:
What does loyalty mean to you?
He's quite critical of the Washington Post:
What is that reporter doing reporting about James O’Keefe? And isn’t it funny that she is leaping to assumptions after she should have read an affidavit that doesn’t back her assumptions up?
Look: I wasn’t there and I therefore don’t know what happened. But O’Keefe has a history of goofy, humorous, over-the-top undercover stunts to make a political point. Wiretapping doesn’t seem like his style. And the facts in the affidavit — especially the lack of reference anywhere to any listening devices in the possession of anyone in the building — suggest to me that’s not what he was doing.
Posts
174 comments:
They need to get a good lawyer and work out a plea deal ASAP.
Their ego's got way out in front of their brains in search of the next 15 minutes of fame.
Having said that, they are gonna be indicted long before any of the ACORN tax fraud people see a court room
Stupid stupid stupid. If these accusations are true, these guys are screwed. I'll bet the government will not accept a plea because the case will be pretty tight and there are plenty of people wanting an example to be set.
I hope there is more to the story as this doesn't sound quite right.
Even if there isn't the Acorn fraud case is history.
1 yr from now the Supremes amazingly will be hearing this case, and will rule O'Keefe's free speech rights were violated, that the right of free speech includes listening to someone else's private free speech.
Yep, those three were doing wrong and should pay for that. Also, my bet is that they'll pay long before anything to done about ACORN!
People are getting way out of control with their partisan politics. This week we've got a DailyKos clown busted for writing a zillion phoney letters to papers under the name Ellie Light, and a Breitbart moron pulling some Nixonian funny stuff with a Senator's phone system.
Chill out, people. You look kinda silly when you take your Republicans vs Democrats jive this far.
It's not a felony to write letters.
This could get pretty interesting as one of the people arrested is the son of the current U.S. Attorney for western Louisiana.
Really, really stupid. Overreaching for that extra 15 minutes of fame.
Some people think the the rules don't apply to them... including some people who got big and famous amusing us with revelations of the way some people think the rules don't apply to them. It's so hilarious.
It is, kind of. In addition to being clearly illegal, the political environment, with the leadership of the DOJ, makes their conduct doubly stupid.
WTF. That telephone repairman ruse always worked for Barney in Mission Impossible!
Oh, right - that was IMPOSSIBLE.
Having said that, they are gonna be indicted long before any of the ACORN tax fraud people see a court room
Hell with this administration they'll probably be sentenced longer than Kahlid Shit Mohhamed.
Now if they were trying to tap, say the CIA or Pentagon offices, the usual suspects here would be cheering on their bravery.
1 yr from now the Supremes amazingly will be hearing this case, and will rule O'Keefe's free speech rights were violated, that the right of free speech includes listening to someone else's private free speech.
garage, stick with being the perpetually angry liberal because your attempts at comedy blows.
Some people think the the rules don't apply to them... including some people who got big and famous amusing us with revelations of the way some people think the rules don't apply to them. It's so hilarious.
Indeed, O'Keefe didn't think rules applied to him when he recorded the pimp interview without prior consent and then disseminating it. Especially heavily edited, where the interviewee's voice was dubbed over making it impossible to determine what they were really saying.
I blame Hollywood. They make it look so easy in the movies.
Morons. They get caught trying to wire tap a Senators phone system? You are going to jail, stupid asses.
Now we can see where Lawyers get most of their business from...intelligent people acting stupidly. They need the famous Texas defense lawyer who charges $500,000 , or $1,000,000 if he provides the witnesses.
What's wrong with you people? James O'Keefe did America a big favor once, and I'll wait to hear what he was fishing for this time before I condemn him or call him stupid. If he has a legal defense fund, I'm in. Why should he pay for doing what the media refuses to do? That kid's a hero. Investigative journalism ain't no "15 minutes of fame" bullshit, it's serious business - y'all need to get serious as well.
I support good people - not goodie-goodie - and James O'Keefe's contribution to this latest incarnation of conservatism - The Tea Party Movement - can't be overstated. It's bigger than Scott Brown's, though Brown was in a better situation to have an impact, because these were kids - acting when nobody else would - proving to the world we were right about the corruption of ACORN all along. That was the crack in liberalism's facade and you know it.
This young man realigned our political world. Like I said, I'm with him until I hear more. The fact the rest of you have to think about it, or are assuming anything already, gives me pause:
What does loyalty mean to you?
Crack...I see your point. But this time he was not asking questions, but he was doing an undercover wire tap, that the FBI should have been doing with a Search warrant from a Judge. So he will also incurr the wrath of having committed the worst crime known to law enforcement ... which is Impersonating a Police Officer.
Now if they were trying to tap Haliburton's lines, garage would be sending his paychecks to their defense fund.
So he will also incurr the wrath of having committed the worst crime known to law enforcement ... which is Impersonating a Police Officer.
I'd go with Secret Agent.
Agent 69 to be exact.
If they did this they were stupid and need to face up, but whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Hasan is still alleged to have done what he did at Ft. Hood.
These young men are "guilty, guilty, guilty - off with their heads!!!!"
vw: awert
To be fair, I don't think they've even been indicted, let alone convicted, and we've jumped to conclusions that he is guilty, even our constitutional professor host. And me.
The odds look bad for them, and if the charges are true, they will deserve whatever they get, but let's wait for the trial before we convict.
wv: forthert I don't know what it means, but it should be a word.
He's impersonating a telephone repairman, not a police officer.
Evidently hooked on the method of telling a lie to record material.
If it worked once, it will work again, he figured.
but whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
That only applies to Islamic terrorists who yell God is Great when they saw your head off.
He should have gotten one of those radio shack cell phone recorders, like the old couple had in Florida a few years ago.
Now if they were trying to tap Haliburton's lines, garage would be sending his paychecks to their defense fund.
Halliburton packed up and moved to Dubai.
Halliburton packed up and moved to Dubai.
Probably better tax rates.
Indeed, O'Keefe didn't think rules applied to him when he recorded the pimp interview without prior consent and then disseminating it. Especially heavily edited, where the interviewee's voice was dubbed over making it impossible to determine what they were really saying.
Garage, you can't feign outrage at what O'Keefe has done, while tripping over yourself to excuse or even deny (despite numerous videotapes) what ACORN employees did. [conspiring to set up prostitution and/or child trafficking rings]
Right is right, wrong is wrong. If we start changing those meanings based on politics, all is lost.
Guys, why the rush do indict? Can't we at least give him the same benefit of the doubt that the Holder DOJ gives self-ignited AQ terrorists, and the media (including Fox!) gives to ALLEGED Fort Hood shooter Maj Hasan?
I am sure Garage thinks that the theft and leak of the Pentagon Papers was a most patriotic and noble act!
I am with Crack here. O'Keefe has muckraker blood in his veins.
He'll plead this down to a misdemeanor like trespassing. No biggie.
But it will be fun to watch how fast Eric Holder moves to indict.
The Libs will have a field day with this. Let them. No need for the right to jump on their accusatory bandwagon. O'Keefe will suffer enough at their hands...and he'll learn.
He'll get some time to think about this. He'll be more careful next time.
Pulling this stunt in a Federal office building can't be helpful to the lads. I assume the FBI was in the building already, and just scooted on over.
I think the Feds will take this very seriously not because of politics but because they are very touchy about rogue entry to their facilities these days.
Really, really stupid.
Pimpin' ain't easy.
What O'Keefe did to reveal the corruption at ACORN was brave and admirable. He did something that our uncurious and uncreative young journalists refuse to do anymore.
However, just because he did something I like doesn't give him carte blanche in my mind to break the law, or to adopt any means necessary as a political strategy.
"Some people think the the rules don't apply to them... including some people who got big and famous amusing us with revelations of the way some people think the rules don't apply to them. It's so hilarious."
Ahh, the intoxicating pull of cruel neutrality.
Imagine, the outcome if these separate crimes were consummated and tell me they even come close.
Children in prostitution rings, obstruction of justice, fraud, tax evasion, etc. vs I heard the Senator say blah, blah, blah.
Still illegal, but hardly comparable. And what was ACORN's ends that would justify the means, which at least these people have some claim to.
Garage, you can't feign outrage at what O'Keefe has done, while tripping over yourself to excuse or even deny (despite numerous videotapes) what ACORN employees did. [conspiring to set up prostitution and/or child trafficking rings]
If you didn't notice from my posts I think it's hilarious. More hilarious is watching the little army of breitfart.com morons running around thinking they've uncovered all these eerie and ominous Obama conspiracy theories lurking around every corner. A pimp and a ho walk into an ACORN office and receive tax advice. Oh, and how to traffic humans. I mean seriously. You think these imbeciles uncovered it all? They then alter the audio on the recordings, feed it to FOX for a 24/7 ACORNPALOOZA, and the MSM unquestionably laps it all up like puppies. This country is just too fucking dumb to survive.
While I still condemn this action, what would happen if they got away with it and published the Senator selling her vote or even worse, like some really bad scandal, of which I have insufficient imagination to suggest.
Would we ignore the wiretapping? I'm sure the left would not let that happen, and there would be a big fight over what is more important. Which is a telling aspect of partisanship.
"You think these imbeciles uncovered it all?"
Of course not, only a small taste.
"This country is just too fucking dumb to survive."
Well some members certainly are. You probably can't get life insurance at this point.
This country is just too fucking dumb to survive.
You have a point. There's a whole lot of people like you in it.
There's always Venezuela for you garage. They have a leader more in line with your political taste and he doesn't put up with these kinds of shennanigans.
The coverage I'm reading on the right blogosphere is not being shy about acknowledging the wrongness of this crime, if true, and even implying guilt. Quite different from what you see when the tables are turned.
I saw a lot more mindless defense of ACORN for much worse and it continues to this day.
kimsch said...
...but whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty?
Nobody is innocent until proven guilty. Their guilt or innocence is a fact independent of what is or is not proven in court.
They are entitled to the presumption of innocence from our legal system, and I'm entitled to presume whatever I darn well please.
G. Gordon Liddy would have known what to do.
Oh wait.
Isn't entering a Federal building under false pretenses a crime? I assume they had to go past a Federal Marshall or some such, and a metal detector, etc. I know in Milwaukee the Federal building is not easy come easy go.
I don't think these guys had any idea how unprankishly this act would be viewed by people in a postion to make their lives miserable.
I wonder what they were really up here. There is nothing in the affadavit about electronic monitoring equipment. They couldn't get much with just a tool belt. Maybe listen in real time if the office was using copper lines, but nothing if they were using a digital circuit for voice service.
Look, the poor schmuck was just rying to do what the liberals have been doing for years. Getting away with crime.
Liberal or Conservative. Democrat or Republican there is no right or wrong. No moral or immoral. No crime is too heinous for political people and operatives. It is business. Strictly busines.
In politics there is only one rule. One law. it is called the Eleventh Commandment. Thou shalt not get caught.
He got caught. He violated the commandment.
I read this by another commenter on another blog:
"If entering the office of a Senator under false pretenses is a federal crime, then about 90% of our Senators should be in federal prison." ~ madshark
Extraordinarily stupid.
It will be interesting, though, if this story disappears. Because whatever they thought they were going to find will come up in open court, and if there's anything there there, the pressure to keep it under wraps will be intense.
Celebrating the conviction seems a little premature, especially by those trained in matters of procedure.
Besides, a forgone, pre-trial verdict is strictly Nancy Grace-less, and worthy of censure.
In short, show me the evidence. First.
A pity. I know the kid stupidly ignored "risk-reward" thinking and violated significant laws. At the least, he blundered himself out of the "good cause" business and will now have some jailtime and a felony record.
On the other hand, IF only we DID have the complete transcripts of Mary Landrieau and her staff's phone conversations over the past two years, they would be facing far more serious indictments and more time behind bars than O'Keefe.
As would Dodd, Rove, Dubya, Paulson, Geithner, Nadler, Waxman, Pelosi, Daschle, Spector, Feinstein, Barney Frank, Baucus, Rangel, Burris and a 2,000 other crooks in The Imperial City.
That's the problem. We know the People are being sold out daily to the Ruling Elites. That their future and their children's is being bartered away for the power and insider profits that are being created by Open Borders, selling out the US middle class to cheap global labor oversupply, a wrecked education system, and bank bailouts.
But the people doing it are clever. They are mostly lawyers with a careful eye to what crimes and betrayals they do are provable in a court of law or not.
To make this all a transparent, workable government again would require scrapping the system by Revolution and rewriting the Constitution to take power from the cabals of the Imperial City.
Back when the movie Independence Day came out in 1996, Beltway Elitists were mildly consternated when audiences cheered the alien death beams destroying Washington DC.
Now, people half-joke that the problem on 9/11 was the terrorists lacked sufficient planes needed to do a really good job on the NYC bankers and DC cabals.
`
Yeah, tapping someone's phone is bad. Tapping someone's, uh . . . well, that could be worse.
But honestly - don't you secretly wish that you could listen in whenever you wanted to the private conversations of the people you believe are the bad guys? Especially the ones you know have pulled the wool over everyone else's eyes?
`
Almost Ali
Shorter Almost Ali:
"Because this guy is a Conservative show me the evidence and lets take our time. But if this guy was a Liberal then throw him in jail and deal with facts later."
The bottom line is this does not look good but, yes, he deserves fair treatment just like anyone else regardless of political persuasion.
So I don't usually comment much, but I am a phone guy and here's the thing:
The phone room of a large office building has thousands of pairs of wires, and dozens of "smart jacks" that provide digital circuits. If you've ever been in one you will know it is almost impossible to pick out one small group of lines for one tenant without the road map provided by the carriers (outside dial tone guys) or the guys who did the inside wiring.
My point here is that these kids may very well do hard time for an act that had zero chance of ever being effective. There is no way they would luck into the Senator's lines and then be able to go to town. There are no neon signs saying "Landrieu lines here!"
I find this whole thing sad and fascinating. I do wonder what they were planning and if we will ever know.
"There is nothing in the affadavit about electronic monitoring equipment."
And I'm seeing a whole lot of statements as fact that they were trying to bug Landrau's phone.
Trespassing in a public place might be against the law. Giving false information going through security is probably against the law, seeing as it's federal offices and all. (Did they? Or did they use their own ID's?)
Actually tapping a phone is something else. Since the whole "recording someone without their consent" has what's his face in court ATM, he can't possibly not know the difference.
My guess?
The kid who's dad is a US Attorney, says... Hey, you know how easy it is to just walk past security in those buildings? I do it all the time and they don't even check.
The other guys say, yeah, but so? You can't get anything past the metal detectors.
And one of the other guys says, we could walk through with all sorts of technical looking gadgets and metal crap if we look like maintenance people.
And the other one says, but not ones that work there... computer guys or something.
Or phone repair.
Ooohhhh!
So, how far do you think we'd get before they stopped us?
How far did they get?
They seem to have gotten all the way to Mary Landreau's telephone closet, even having "forgotten" their work badges and ID's, before anyone called security and stopped them.
By the by... can they claim not to have been "impersonating" anyone if they didn't have any false identification on them whatsoever?
Just wondering.
How curious! There was a Washington Post story just recently about how Paul Harvey had tried to break into the Argonne National Laboratory in 1951, to demonstrate that security was lax. He was caught within seconds, and had to be bailed out by J. Edgar Hoover. Sound even vaguely familiar?
Its illegal and more damaging to leak national security secrets via the New York Times. Are we going after them seriously? No.
Its illegal to stuff top secret documents down your pants (or was it socks?) Berger got off lightly.
I expect leniency.
I don't know whose footing the tab, but they have one of the best criminal defense attnys in Louisiana--and the nation--representing them in Eddie Castaing, a close friend of mine since undergrad days at LSU. (even if he won't admit it publicly :) ) He successfully represented the RNs who were charged by the La. Attny Gen. with the Katrina patient deaths at Memorial Hosp.
Good point Ken.
It'd be a travesty of they got more severe punishment than Sandy Burgler.
wv = nunce = Nola dunce?
Their biggest mistake was thinking they could pull this off all wearing the hard hat costume.
Only O'Keefe should have worn the hard hat. The other guys should have dressed as a cop, a cowboy and an Indian Chief, respectively.
Sheesh! Kids today!
If you didn't notice from my posts I think it's hilarious.
Here's where your humor goes from charming to gross.
Guys, this is Louisiana.
Don't assume we know the whole story. I'm not saying he is innocent, just we should be uniquely willing to suspend judgement for now.
[I'm going to repost this earlier comment; it'd be great if - instead of just playing around - Althouse could find a legal expert with experience in this area to weigh in]
I just read the affidavit. It doesn't say anything about "bugging" or "wiretapping", it only claims they were trying to "interfere" with the phone system. This is one of those things blawgers are supposed to discuss, but Insty and volokh.com just link to reports.
In any case, if anyone wants to do things in a perfectly legitimate and highly effective way that will raise the level of debate in the U.S., help promote this plan. I've been promoting that in vain for almost three years, and if Breitbart had followed it instead of posting tea party screeds and the like he'd have had a far greater impact than he's had. Of course, that plan requires people who aren't compromised, and it's difficult to find many people like that.
some kid hacking a senator's phone is like some kid hacking a vice-presidential candidate's email.
O'Keefe sounds like he is in real trouble. But this is weird beyond belief too.
ACORN should not smile yet. Things are not good for them here. The more attention on O'Keefe, the more attention on them.
According to a statement from Landrieu, these guys were charged with entering a Federal facility under false pretenses in order to commit a felony.
Anyone genuinley know how much trouble they are in? It doesn't sound good.
On the other hand, there is nothing about wiretapping in the charges.
They're all out of jail, as of this afternoon.
They're not kids, or lads, by the way. They're men.
The term "men" is used very selectively by some women, particularly when wanting to make sure we get the point that these individuals are liable. I have a daughter that age, and a number of guys in that general age group work for me, and they are kids and lads to me, if not to the legal system and somber stern women.
Here's where your humor goes from charming to gross.
Okay, can't see where anything I posted was "gross" though.
What does loyalty mean to you?
It sure as hell doesn't automatically mean the end *automatically* justifies the means.
Here's my take, in a nutshell, previously recorded online via (apologizes in advance to those who may be offended by the venue):
O'Keefe seems a poster child for young people w/a singular passion but immature ethics who [are] 2 quickly encouraged,a/o/t mentored,by elders.
Beta, lots of people use "boy" when they want to diminish the responsibility of the adult male involved. I suppose that's what loyalty means.
He's an adult, so face the potential consequences of his actions he must, regardless and however it plays out. Full stop.
Still, it's a shame--had certain people been more concerned in nurturing his talent than exploiting his "get," or even expressed both in equal measure, perhaps things would be playing out differently.
Of course, we'll never know, now.
In this case, the stain deserves spreading--not legally, necessarily (I have no idea), but certainly morally and ethically. It's easy to encourage and even easier to exploit; to mentor is much, much harder and requires a discipline which--to put too fine a point on it--O'Keefe was far from being alone in failing to exercise.
I have said throughout that I think what they did was stupid and most likely criminal. I don't expect any leniency to be shown them.
I do think it is unfortunate that they may end up paying dearly for something that is more silly than nefarious.
The kid who hacked Palin's email was mentioned. The difference here is that he probably never left his room. Today's deeds may have been ultimately less intrusive than that, but these events took place on Federal property and so the penalty will reflect that.
These events suggest a mixture of youth and hubris that is quite common. They set out to do something they could not have done anyway because they probably did not know how. And it's a shame that their lives will be negatively affected maybe forever over this.
Calling them lads and kids is my way of offering forgivenes for misplaced youthful exuberance. I don't expect the Federal Prosecutors to feel the same way.
Althouse front paged that Crack Emcee nonsense. Oy.
Perhaps people should worry less about what Althouse does or does not frontpage on her blog and worry more about what they do or do not frontpage in their own lives.
I'd be more than a tad surprised if Althouse herself had a problem with that concept.
That make absolutely no sense. As usual.
I'm not sure what the equivalent right side organization would be to ACORN, or if that's even possible, but if there was one and some young people did what they did and undcovered similar stuff like at ACORN, and then did this to a Republican senator, I would feel the same about it:
I'd be proud of what they did in exposing the organization, I be impressed with their determination to find more corruption and I would be disappointed in that they chose so poorly the method this time.
I also would be somewhat forgiving due to their age, there are few things as universally explanatory of stupidity as being young.
Is this really so hard for us all to agree on, or are we wrapped that tight?
Matt - That's one heck of a job paraphrasing.
Meanwhile, it seems the FBI is alleging O'Keefe was an accessory, apparently because he happened to be sitting right there in plain sight.
On it's face, it doesn't add up. If O'Keefe was involved, what did he hope to accomplish; show how easy it is to waltz into the senator's office and bug her phones in broad daylight? Not much here, even if it worked. And where was the FBI, waiting in the wings?
At the moment it sounds more like Napoleonic intrigue, if you ask me.
Beth said...
They're all out of jail, as of this afternoon.
Yeah, on a $10,000 bond. That's a large bond for someone with no criminal history.
James O'Keefe tweets: I am a journalist. The truth shall set me free.
Well, I'm all for getting at the truth. Who is bankrolling James O'Keefe's criminal activities? That search for truth has already begun, with the spotlight on The Pelican Institute.
Felony offenses, if true. Starting with "... on Federal property".
Having said that, they'd have been a lot better off merely being black, dressed in black, and swinging clubs at a polling place.
Every body knows there's no harm there.
Well, at least the Justice department does. Right?
These guys will have made their first hundred prison bucks before any ACORN or Panther actor sees the inside of a court room.
Anyone [genuinely] know how much trouble they are in?
Based on the chump-change bond ($10,000) - not much.
And dare I say, one must consider the elements of political retaliation since ACORNing is a virtual duty in Louisiana.
Loafer says that a $10,000 bond is HUGE!
Almost Ali:
Maybe. Maybe not. It's early days yet. I'll state up front I'm not a lawyer or of related professions/expertise. Still, it seems to me that--so far--it's just as likely that more, and more serious charges, might be brought going forward as it is that the case will be dropped altogether.
To people who *are* lawyers or of related professions/expertise: Am I off-base with regard to that thought?
Yikes.
Stupid.
I read some place that O'Keefe was videoing with his cell phone?
How could the Senator's office know what the intentions were without a doubt?
Were they Mirandized on the spot?
Trespassing in a public place might be against the law
How can one trespass in a public place if said public place is open to the public?
OK -- the closet might technically not be open to the public.
It was wrong. I'm sure they'll pay a price for this. But it will be interesting to see how overkill-ish it will be, given that Eric probably hearts Bertha. (Landrieau's statement seems a bit heavy handed, given the situation. Maybe they are doing the fear-of-God thing. But then ML is still stinging from being faulted for selling her vote for 300 million pieces of silver.)
Not to muddy the waters though -- what happened again to those New Back Panther guys who were intimidating voters (on video) with sticks casually swinging at a public polling place in PA?
I just like things to be fair and balanced. Like the New Black Panthers. Yes, and Sandy Berger. And ACORN. Several ACORNs. And the VP mail hacker. (BTW - MOST hackers don't leave their rooms. And still some end up at Motel, Fed all expenses paid.)
Honestly, why isn't every Senator's phone available to the public. What does Landrieu have to hide? And what possible expectation of privacy does an elected official have on a government funded phone?
"Who is bankrolling James O'Keefe's criminal activities?"
What expenses could possibly need "bankrolling". They just dressed up and walked in offices. Everything they have done, is well within the capabilities of most college students, in terms of financing, motivation, and recklessness.
I wouldn't be surprised if this turns out to be a well planned stunt that's quite more than it appears today.
Loeafing Oaf asked:
"Who is bankrolling James O'Keefe's criminal activities?"
This is what I ask when I see hundreds of young, well-fed rioters at a G-8 conferecne in Seattle or Europe...."where do they get the money to fly all over the place and riot?"
Based on the chump-change bond ($10,000) - not much.
In my county, burglars with felonies on their record - and who have a history of not showing up for court - get lower bonds than that.
He's facing serious felonies in federal court. He's in trouble.
These guys are 24 and 25 years old. Their age is no excuse. They did something stupid, at best, but seriously stupid. If they had a listening device, then they're in deeper trouble. But as a few have noted, $10K is chump change for bond. They're not on the way to Gitmo.
I wonder how many of you rooting for these morons are hoping they also bugged Bobby Jindal's office - if you knew anything about the story of that $300 million bucks you'd know that he and his top medical administrator Alan Levine were lobbying our entire congressional delegation and the Obama administration for help with that for a year. Landrieu was stupid to make it part of the health care debate process, but it's a shame those guys have run for cover and let her take all the heat.
I am confident that Jim Letten, the U.S. Attorney in our district, a Republican appointed by W, will be completely honorable and fair in dealing with these guys. As I've said several times here before, Letten is the absolute best thing to happen to New Orleans, not just post-Katrina, but possibly ever.
Except for the NFC Champion New Orleans Saints, of course.
Althouse takeaway of the news:
"Some people think the the rules don't apply to them..."
My takeaway of the news:
"Some people think they can write the story without knowing all of the story or part of the story."
It may be that your view is correct. But we don't know that at the present time. I prefer to reserve judgment until that time all of the facts are known.
And I'm not even a law professor.
It didn't occur to me that penetrating a Federal building under false pretenses was a terrorist act, but if the Guantanamo cell fits, send O'Keefe right over. Let him be tried by a military commission.
I sincerely hope they didn't Mirandize him.
What O'Keefe did to reveal the corruption at ACORN was brave and admirable
s/corruption/sense of humor/
Why conservatives fear poor people getting housed is beyond me -- we've talked about the Golden Rule and "the least of My brethren" often enough. Christians have to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.
How can one trespass in a public place if said public place is open to the public?
that argument didn't work when I visited the women's locker room. Nor did it work when I wandered into the bank vault, or the casino counting room.
This is one of those events where you let the facts make their way out of the bag and breath a bit before conclusions are drawn.
If true, they should be punished just enough to deter others from doing the same type of nonsense.
As much as many dislike politicians and cling to the mantra that they are all crooks or up to machinations for ruling elites, we would still hate someone messing with us illegally on our jobs or in our homes.
It's side nonsense like this that keeps anything on the political front from gettting done in this country. (Or, I should modify that and say, "Anything that I want from getting done").
Honestly, why isn't every Senator's phone available to the public. What does Landrieu have to hide?
Since every Senator's phone is NOT available to the public, there's no reason to ask what Landrieu has to hide. That's crappy logic.
Most communications can be gotten with an FOI request, can't they? I don't know. I do know that when public officials' emails and calls are made public, they are first redacted for the privacy of their constituents.
"Councilman X, I need help. There is a serious drug operation down the street from my house, and police officer's car is often parked there. I can't call the NOPD because it looks like that cop is in on the action. Can you help me get this information to the FBI? My name is Y, and I live at 1234 Honest Citizen Way. Please don't tell your contacts who I am; these dudes will kill me."
Also, Landrieu is on the Homeland Security Committee - by all means, let everyone in Yemen listen in.
I suppose that's what loyalty means.
What does Landrieu have to hide?
Oh fer chrissake, I don't have anything to hide, but I don't want anyone tapping my phone either.
These laws exist for a reason!
Christians have to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.
Yeah. Bring those El Salvadorean teenagers up. We'll help you get housing and a mortgage because we know you're in the performance arts business.
Straight out of the Acts of the Apostles.
This is one of those events where you let the facts make their way out of the bag and breath a bit before conclusions are drawn.
True, Finn. But this is the age of instant response, and instant triangulation.
Landrieu was stupid to make it part of the health care debate process
She's a U.S. Senator, she's automatically part of it I think.
Hello Finn! Long time no comment.
that argument didn't work when I visited the women's locker room. Nor did it work when I wandered into the bank vault, or the casino counting room.
Were they in public buildings? A casino is private property. A bank vault is in private property. Depends on where the locker room is... sometimes it's private property.
It's the "trespass" issue, not whether someone can access restricted areas.
garage, if I wasn't clear, what I meant by that was she was stupid to make the deal to solve that $300 million formula funding gap a contigency for her vote to allow debate on the health care bill. Yes, they both are about health care, but there are limits to how quid pro quo can be pulled off. She screwed up, but she did it as part of an overall effort by our elected state officials, as the one most in a position to get it accomplished.
They just dressed up and walked in offices.
They also allegedly had an accomplice in a car nearby with a listening device. Just what were these clowns up to?
You wanna act like it's some small thing. I don't want some extremist nutcases going into my Senators' offices and fucking with the phones with listening devices and so forth. There's people in our prisons who did a lot less than that, so I hope they throw the book at these idiots and they don't just get probation.
I was going to say that the way this has been handled in general by r/w bloggers is indicative of a "smarts gap", but I guess there really isn't much of a gap, or it's more of an oscillating kind of thing.
Hint: instead of anyone repeating the claim that they were "trying to bug" the office, read the gov't documents. They only say they were "interfering". Then, find a communications lawyer to explain what all of it means, and use that to help discredit those making "bugging" claims, while at the same time not excusing whatever they were doing. It should be easy, but I have yet to see anyone else besides me even attempt part of that.
You won't find Althouse, Instapundit, or volokh.com doing that. Are there any blawgs that are willing to do something besides link to the MSM and repeat their claims?
This is what I ask when I see hundreds of young, well-fed rioters at a G-8 conferecne in Seattle or Europe...."
AJ, that's pretty much my reaction; I don't have a lot of sympathy for trustifarians of any stripe using violence against people or property.
LoafingOaf: Let's try an intellectual honesty test. List some possibilities for that "listening device", some possibilities why it's not (at least yet) part of the case, some possibilities regarding the statement from the anon official, and some possibilities why they'd have such a device, assuming they had it at all. Really think about it just as honestly as you can.
Beth
*forehead smack* Yep missed that, sorry. Quid pro quo. Blech.
Hey, the Pentagon is public property too -- our tax dollars at work. The NSA, the CIA -- if I can wait in their lobby I can go anywhere.
Bring those El Salvadorean teenagers up.
The ACORN workers were not smart enough to take O'Keefe's story seriously. But if he can penetrate a government building who knows what he's capable of?
Arrest him for attempting to traffic underage Third Worlders.
Lots of people are comparing these guys to Sandy Berger, the Palin email hacker, etc. Yes, those people got off easy, and the media lets them.
It sucks, but I guess what: I don't want my guys to act like Bill Clinton or Ted Kennedy. And if they do, I *really* don't want them to get away with it.
No reason to let our respect for the law drown out a little bit of healthy curiosity about what he thought he'd find. Hard to see what could go worse for the signatory to the Louisiana Purchase.
O'Keefe is savvy enough to pick juicy targets, and I suspect he had a lead. But obviously, he went too far this time.
It's a pity that timid prosecutors -- the kind who will be all over this case -- don't have the cahones to go after NYT and Washington Post journalists who crack open the deepest national security secrets.
Loafer says that a $10,000 bond is HUGE!
In comparison to what? Generally, they want people to be able to bond out quickly, unless they're a violent threat to the community. But you don't get a $10,000 bond (especially if you have no criminal history and you're not accused of anything violent) unless you're charged with something serious. Crack dealers and burglars often get lower bonds than this guy, and I think those are pretty serious crimes. My point was not that this was some incredibly high bond that was a burden for him to post. My point was, he's facing serious felony charges, and he is.
And the bands roll on.
So it goes.
Ya think the Louisiana Democrat hacks are going to do anything other than charge O'Keefe with some gradiose, trumped-up charge? Especially after what he exposed with ACORN? Ya think? YA THINK?
Come on, people. The police officer acted stupidly. Former terrorist Bill Ayers was just a guy living in the neighborhood. I did not have sex with that woman, Ms Lewinsky. And on and on and on.
It's a pity that timid prosecutors -- the kind who will be all over this case
You are clueless. You don't know squat about the prosecutor who will be handling this case.
Ya think the Louisiana Democrat hacks are going to do anything other than charge O'Keefe with some gradiose, trumped-up charge?
Once more, the U.S. Attorney here is Jim Letten, a Republican appointed by W. Which Democrat hack in particular do you know to be able to "charge" O'Keefe? Please, do tell.
It's so much fun watching people opine from complete and utter ignorance.
Lonewacko: I don't know what you're getting at. I'll let this case play out in court. All I'm saying is, they're facing serious charges and their credibility is going down the drain. It's looking like they'll soon be convicted felons.
I didn't care for the O'Keefe/Giles tactics against ACORN even though I'm not actually a fan of ACORN. Those two were heppy to destroy peoples' lives to score some political points, using hidden cameras and highly edited footage. So, I have no compassion for what looks like James O'Keefe ruining his own reputation and future with felonies. He's a "the ends justify the means" and "who cares if I destroy some peoples' lives with my shady tactics" type of political extremist.
This is how the conservative youth have been raised, people. They are the fruit of the conservative value system which says rules don't apply to conservatives.
Come on now, wake up everyone. It's no secret what's going on. This administration saw a threat and arrested it.
O'Keefe is a political prisoner, just like Mumia.
Demonstrations must be held.
When you hear they had a "listening device", that sounds pretty bad, doesn't it? They were obviously trying to listen in on phone calls, right?
Then, you realize that even AllahPundit - who, while careful and level-headed isn't that bright - has been able to come up with an alternative explanation. And, there are no doubt a multitude of others. So, since the blawgers have failed us, let's see if we can come up with a list of possibilities for the device and the whole thing.
Well, we all know -- it's BUSH'S FAULT!
Will you look at that!
These guys are from the campus conservative newspaper branch of wingnut welfare. They are founders of conservative campus newspapers. These guys are the conservative leaders of their generation!
+1 for benefit of the doubt, wait and see, nobody could be that stupid, this must be a play-fake or an attempt to get something on the record or something...and if indeed the full-monty worst-case scenario is true, these yonkers are in for it! If only all offenders could receive the justice they deserve.
Either way the mind reels...
TW: dedes. I hope they are not guilty of any serious dedes.
PS So what happened to Paul Harvey?
Yeah, check that link from Alpha. TPM is on top of this story.
I don't really get people defending this shit. Is Crack Emcee really gonna send checks to James O'Keefe's defense? Why? He approves of a bunch of political exremist ass-clowns entering a U.S. Senator's offices on false pretenses to fuck with the phone system? Why is that considered legitimate journalist tactics?
Oaf: destroy peoples' lives? Whose? What has happened to any of the ACORN people other than getting some leftist street cred? Fired? Like anybody's career depends on ACORN? You might better say:
Those [many] were happy to destroy [underage Latinas'] lives to score some [money and votes], using the power of [community activism] and [total amorality and disregard for human life].
Alpha, you just made me realize the role of the NYT.
They will score every single point you and your brain-brothers at (whatever that execrable link was) want to have put across, but will do it in fairly good English without mouthbreathing bile. So in theory, I might read it.
Oaf: destroy peoples' lives? Whose?
The lives of some of the amoral criminals ACORN likes to hire. But they're lefties, so it's cool.
Anyway, if the allegations against O'Keefe are true then he should most certainly be punished. He's done more real journalism in the last year than the NYT has, but there's no "I was researching my next news piece" exception to the criminal codes.
I fear this is mere hubris. Who did they think they are? Only liberal Democrats can get away with such blatant disregard for the law.
Is this how ACORN is going to get off the hook?
A slightly more innocent interpretation:
'Telephone repairmen' was only the ruse to get into the office. They weren't going to tap any phones, but rather do some secret filming of interaction with the staff.
The tapping phones accusation is purely hanging on the nature of their disguise and not any actual act.
Still, mighty dumb to ignore the 'if it walks like a duck' aspect.
Is this how ACORN is going to get off the hook?
I'm pretty sure "having Congress and the Department of Justice controlled by Democrats" is how ACORN is going to get off the hook. :)
I was a telephone repairman for many years and Yeah, these guys were real dumb.
They could have asked a real repairman for a few tips....First, the Phone Company is too cheap to send in more than one repairman, and second, there is no need to go into the congressmans office to listen in. It can be done at MANY points, all of them completely safe....
Anybody want to bet who goes to jail first and for longest? The Acorn folks or O'Keefe? All in the hands of the DoJ...
I'm with Crack Emcee.
There's no way I'm going to assume the worst about a guy who puts himself in harms way for a country (mostly) that doesn't care about Truth and Justice, as long as the good times get rolling again.
Heh, unlike other "-gate" scandals this one really is like Watergate.
Since its Louisianna, how would you know the arrest is even legitimate?
I wouldn't jump to any conclusions in that cesspool of a state.
You know, it should be pointed out that there is ZERO EVIDENCE so far, other than the FBI agent's mind-reading, that the intent here was to bug the phones. All they know for sure is that the guys asked to see the phone closet.
Then what? They weren't carrying tools, you know. Or wires or radio transmitters or supermicrominiaturized battery-powered KGB surplus bugs. There's no way they could have bugged the phones.
That's just an element of drama the FBI agent added, to make it seem far more dark and serious than it is.
Because, you know, in fact what they did is exactly what they did to ACORN. They bullshitted their way into an office, and then planned to record what happened there.
The problem is that they forgot that the one thing the law protects viciously is the property of the lawyers. It's not a felony offense to bullshit your way into ACORN offices -- but it sure is to bullshit your way into a Senator's office.
They probably had some ludicrous idea that everyone was equal under the law, so if the law protected (or failed to protect) a private citizen, it would do no less (and no more) to protect a Senator. But we don't live in such egalitarian days any more. The sacred persons of Senators are far more important than those of we mere peasants.
This has nothing to do with egalitarian musings. Federal facilities are high value targets during a contentious time.
If they were less secure, and if the laws didn't penalize deceptive penetration of a supposedly secure building, I imagine there would be much wailing and gnashing of teeth about that.
I agree that these guys couldn't have done any real harm, but that is not what they are accused of (yet).
They're not kids, or lads, by the way. They're men.
Good point. They'd only be called kids or children if they were fighting in Irag or Afghanistan.
"I did it...for Hannah Giles."
He'll walk.
Hell, Polanski would walk.
Hitler would walk.
This sounds bad and stupid. It seems as though their plan was extremely stupid, and it's not clear to me how they would have even tapped a phone as the affidavid does not mention any equipment that would do anything like that. These guys were probably just dumb... but I do wonder if they expected to get arrested. Why record a fake phone repairman's conversation with an office worker? Bizarre.
There is no way they would luck into the Senator's lines and then be able to go to town. There are no neon signs saying "Landrieu lines here!"
All they need is a Tone & Tracer. The affidavit says they were fooling with the receptionist phone. No big deal to throw a toner on that line and trace it back in the closet. I don't know what kind of PBX they're using, and I'm not a PBX guy anyway, but they could identify the line easily enough. I'm not sure what that would accomplish though.
Presumably, it being a federal building they have one PBX running all the phones, (the US Marshall's office, FBI, senator's office, etc) right? But...that's not the way you'd approach that anyway right? You could do that easier from a manhole out in the street.
Nah...had to be some kind of sting about the interactions with the staff or something. But what?
I find this whole thing sad and fascinating. I do wonder what they were planning and if we will ever know.
Me too. I haven't got a clue what they could have thought they were going to accomplish. I wonder how the FBI caught they guy down the street in the car...unless they had some surveillance set up. Maybe once they caught them they checked building security tapes and saw them getting out of the car 15 minutes earlier?
It reminds me of the Tiger Woods case. At first all we knew was Mrs. Woods with a sand wedge in the driveway. Later we find out about 15 or 20 other women, Ambien, all the rest.
Here's an innocent question [since I don't know what answer to expect]: Did the crew at "60 Minutes" [or other media] ever enter a federal building "under false pretenses"? If so, were they even charged, let alone prosecuted?
On the face of it, they are screwed. Loyalty has nothing to do with it.
Reminds me -- anyone know whatever happened to that Democrat kid who hacked Sarah Palin's email?
If we are going to be so adamant against people who take journalistic risks that really endanger no one in an attempt to find corruption, then we need to start voting for better people. What these people attempted to do, is what will catch terrible cases of corruption.
You know they are going on right now and lots of em. Who is looking for them? Even the liberal press which loves to catch Republicans is too lazy to find much. We usually learn of congressional scandal long after the damage is done. After they have completed their lifelong career of stealing, lying, and nest feathering.
I want more investigation not less, I hope this doesn't cool off the motivated.
If they break the law, then convict and punish, but when no harm is attempted other than to the politician's or their corrupt staff's career, I'm not not looking for a rope to hang them.
I doubt what these people did was the only law being broken in that building that day or today.
I seriously doubt they were trying to do a wiretap. Landrieu's office probably has digital service (T1, PRI or VOIP), it would be pretty tough to tap into that unless you know what your doing. I doubt these kids have a clue.
They were probably just trying to make Mary look stupid, which really isn't that hard.
I hope it comes out ok for them.
But you highlighted comment is right about them doing the job the press should be doing.
Near as I can tell...
They weren't trying to wire tap.
They didn't use false identification.
The "listening device" in a car outside could have been a cell phone. The horror! But if they expected to get arrested they'd need someone to know right away and not when they got around to getting a phone call.
And if someone is pretending to be a phone repairman they ask to see the phones to keep up the charade. It doesn't even suggest they intended to do anything at all with the phones.
How long did it take before security was called?
And you know why? I bet the young men had short haircuts (likely more expensive than felons who get $10,000 bonds can afford) were "clean" and, yes, were rather pale.
And hey, how noble is it when some idiot chains herself to a federal building and gets arrested. A hero! How noble is it when some idiot walks through security to prove a point? A criminal!
The defenses of ACORN amaze me. "Heavily edited?" There is no way but keep upping the "edited" level. I watched them and they did not seem edited just because there wasn't movie quality surround sound. The dialogs were lengthy as one ACORN worker after another did her best to "help". Giles' and O'Keiffe's dialog could be removed completely and the context would still be there.
Ruining people's lives is when money that should have been helping the poor get houses is used to encourage people to skirt the law, bury your money in the back yard, lie on your tax returns, support prostitution as just another choice for young people, make sure you keep those kids out of sight so too many questions aren't asked, make sure they don't say the wrong things to the wrong people, and, oh, teach them to read, ok?
Misusing money, particularly government money, and failing to deliver the value that was promised is a classic investigative journalism sort of thing. That never happens any more.
I realize that for many, actual evidence that "poor" have been helped and their lives have been improved is irrelevant. The only reason this could be is if it's about feeling good about yourself for supporting the idea and not at all about actually helping people.
Which is exactly why "conservatives" are against "helping" the poor get houses. There's never any accountability to figure out if anyone is actually helped or not. (How many people "helped" were plunged into disaster and bankruptcy by being given mortgages they didn't qualify for and couldn't pay? How is this not *destroying* people?)
Everyone is very busy and very self-congratulatory about helping those poor people, and they don't even have decent employee training and education, leaving these unfortunate "helpful" women out to hang when all they were doing was what they were supposed to do.
Anyone who actually cares about the poor as real people living in real communities and who also supports and excuses ACORN is a liar. But they've got to say the right sort of "caring" things while ACORN sucks in available funds and goes to court to claim they have a constitutional right to collect tax dollars and operate without scrutiny from the Congress.
But go on and try to shame "conservatives" for not wanting to help the poor. It worked for years, after all.
money that should have been helping the poor get houses is used to encourage people to skirt the law, bury your money in the back yard, lie on your tax returns, support prostitution as just another choice for young people
OK, so where are the actual whorehouses filled with Third World children that ACORN has facilitated? The actual tax return liars? The back yards filled with ill-gotten gains?
The only thing that did happen: Two well-scrubbed college kids come into your office with a cock-and-bull story. Things are slow just at the moment, so you play along. Then you get fired for having a sense of humor.
So, fls, you're saying that in all of these offices in each city, there was so little actual work to do helping poor people that the ladies working in all of those offices were bored?
That's a scandal all on it's own.
"OK, so where are the actual whorehouses filled with Third World children that ACORN has facilitated? The actual tax return liars? The back yards filled with ill-gotten gains?"
That sounds like the sort of thing that investigative journalists should be interested in.
Can you see the NYT sending someone to ferret out illegals?
Local issues sometimes do make the grade, like some guy on the water board here who was gaming the system so that he paid almost nothing for making a lush desert oasis out of his personal property.
Alas... gaming the system isn't breaking the law. Even if the spirit of the law that you're employed to enforce is violated every way and backward.
Oh, here's a good "investigative journalist" angle...
How many people who got their houses through ACORN offices and with the help of ACORN advisers are still in them after the crash?
Or, those Annenburg funds that Obama helped administer... are there any hard numbers or measurements of success?
In both of these cases the investigative journalist could find out that either program was a huge success. Both are/were relevant to current events and could have ridden the swell of public interest if pursued in a timely manner.
I'm with Crack Emcee on this one.
Just because what they did was illegal doesn't make it wrong. "Illegal" is not equivalent to "wrong".
It seems likely to me that they didn't have any plan to tap anyone's phone; but were there instead to record video on their cellphones, in a public building, of public employees supposedly working for the public.
And the public employees responded by charging them with the most severe thing that they could dream up that seemed plausible. "With intent to commit a felony"? What sort of bullshit is that?
Wonder if the whole thing --the bust --was planned, with the object of drawing information out of the senator's connections with ACORN ? Should the senator make an effort to keep the case out of the courts, that's a chunk of info, and the kids will walk with a coup in hand. That boy O'Keefe strikes me as a step or two ahead of most of us, and on a mission, to boot.
Pastafarian is on the scent here.. "Thought crimes," eh? The FBI has been watching too many Tom Cruise films. Brave New World indeed....and 1984 has come and gone--about time I guess--especially in the Age of Obama.
I did not know that! Republicans really do LOVE their crooks!
James O'Keefe, arrested for burglary, is honored by House Republicans. Kind of makes you wonder what other phones have been tapped by the GOP?
31 House Republicans Supported Resolution Honoring Alleged Felon James O'Keefe:
Resolution:
Whereas Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe III filmed investigatory videos uncovering the fraudulent and illegal practices of the Association of Community Organization for Reform Now (ACORN);
Whereas the House of Representatives voted [unconstitutionally - AL] to completely defund ACORN on September 17, 2009;
Whereas these videos resulted in the potential annual savings of millions of taxpayer dollars to organizations that contract with ACORN;
Whereas Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe III have displayed exemplary actions as government watchdogs and young journalists uncovering wasteful government spending; and
Whereas Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe III are owed a debt of gratitude by the people of the United States: Now, therefore, be it
Resolved, That the House of Representatives-
(1) honors Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe III for their work as investigative journalists;
(2) commends Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe III for bringing to light the fraudulent behavior of the Association of Community Organization for Reform Now (ACORN) and helping save millions of taxpayer dollars that otherwise would have funded ACORN; and
(3) respectfully requests the Clerk of the House to transmit an enrolled copy of this resolution to Hannah Giles and James O'Keefe III.
Great to see the right wingers here display their embrace of lawlessness and immorality when it serves their purpose.
No wonder your young conservatives are a bunch of crooks.
Synova:
- Fox News commentator Greta V-S said that the ACORN video was heavily edited. Her guest pointed out that an apparent voiceover was laid over the soundtrack.
This statement belies a bigoted view of the world:
And you know why? I bet the young men had short haircuts (likely more expensive than felons who get $10,000 bonds can afford) were "clean" and, yes, were rather pale. .
They were "pale"? Don't tell me! The white man can't catch a break in this country!
Alpha, you descend to a whole new level of stupid when you accuse "da GOP" of "honoring criminals" (plural? of course, Hannah is accused of nothing) when at the time, neither of them was accused of a crime.
Or is any opposition to Obama, ACORN, Gramsci, etc., a crime?
TW: undfase. O'Keefe seemed undfase-d and, if you look at his twitter feed, it says a few lines down that '2010 is going to get heavy' or some such. Wonder how long this has been brewing.
"They were "pale"? Don't tell me! The white man can't catch a break in this country!"
AL, you're a moron.
(Or I never walked through the gate security at Clark AB without challenge or showing ID because I was pale.)
I looked at Crack's post that so many of the conservatives here have found so persuasive.
He is basically saying "this guy has been one of our helpful activists, so we should back him, regardless of whether or not he broke the law. Ends justify the means."
This is an immoral position. It says that law breaking is an acceptable tactic if it helps Republicans.
Man, I am loving this O'Keefe guy! He is exposing the moral depravity of the conservative movement.
And...
"O'Keefe wore a dress shirt and normal clothing when he was in the ACORN offices, but spliced in shots of himself wearing the pimp outfit in the final videos to make it appear that he had worn them in the meetings with ACORN."
He's learned well from his conservative elders how to lie and deceive.
Synova, what, then, are you talking about re: "pale?" You are not explaining yourself well.
Are you not referring to skin color? What's your point?
Synova:
(Or I never walked through the gate security at Clark AB without challenge or showing ID because I was pale.) .
WTF does that mean if not that you were checked due to your skin color?
Glenn Beck disagrees with a lot of Althouse conservatives:
It’s exactly the same thing I said for the state dinner. You must not allow — the Secret Service must come down on these peoples in the White House like a box of rocks. You don’t do anything to hurt security for the president or for a senator or anybody else. You don’t mess around with it. Ever, ever, ever, ever. … We have enough [evidence] to, I believe, condemn.
Nichevo:
Alpha, you descend to a whole new level of stupid when you accuse "da GOP" of "honoring criminals" .
You are a liar. I did not say that. Did not use the word "criminals."
I said: "Republicans really do LOVE their crooks!"
For examples see: G Gordon Liddy, Oliver North, Casper Weingberger, Scooter Libby, O'Keefe and his fanbase here. And on and on.
Dave W., Toning back a phone is not the same as toning back a line wher the source of dial tone is. If you think it's a snap for someone with little or no experience to ID lines in a multi-tenant multi-story office building, I may be able to offer you a job.
So what you're saying, Alf, is that you are beyond any serious discussion. Thanks for letting me know. Just for that, I'll kill you last (sorry, Cedarford).
TW: pater. What people like Alpha apparently never had, sad to say.
Oh, and you didn't say "da GOP" either. I would have been better off using single quotes, which I think are appropriate for a paraphrase.
Try this rephrase, then, you pedantic cocksucker:
Alpha, you descend to a whole new level of stupid when you accuse 'da GOP' of 'honoring criminals' (plural? of course, Hannah is accused of nothing) when at the time, neither of them was accused of a crime.
Or is any opposition to Obama, ACORN, Gramsci, etc., a crime?
Anything? Crickets?
And if not actually a formal, literal sucker of cocks (I forget if you're openly gay like DTL), you are more of one than I am a liar. Can't fix your damage with Strunk & White, at any rate.
Or put it this way: I may be fat but you are ugly, stupid and wicked, and I can diet.
OT: I have been rebuked in the past for using the epithet "cocksucker," by people who had the job ;-) Must watch that. Not for your sake of course, no AL need apply.
How has this in fact become a term of opprobrium? Among women, at any rate, it should be welcomed, nurtured, cherished. Even among gays I suppose it is a kindly act. I think it has some of the connotations of "brownnoser" or "toady" or "lickspittle." Comments?
Why are some people so angry at O'Keefe? Did they want a bigger supply of child prostitutes?
If Dragnet came back today, the intro could still be Sgt Joe Friday's flat voice-over the long shot of downtown Los Angle eez, but instead of "This is the city" he would have to say "I am a Democrat".
Boo for Althouse.
Hooray for CrackEmcee (and hooray for Althouse for frontpaging his comment).
Belial has it right, I think. O'Keefe's real crime was trying to expose corrupt Dems.
"Entering a Federal Building under false pretenses"? "With intent to commit a felony"?
If there were really a crime committed there'd be real charges brought, instead of this nonsense.
I really, really hope this bites Landrieu in the ass, big time.
Wow, Nichevo. You sure do hurl the bile.
Synova, what's with the "pale" comment? You called me a moron for calling you on it, then you repeated it.
If it's not a racist statement, surely someone of your towering intellect could explain it.
@Synova
Yeah, a version of the old leablower joke (that you can go just about anywhere dressed as a gardner with a leaf blower running).
AL, in the old days, you calling me a liar to my face would be all the excuse I'd need - I mean legally - to blow your brains out. Unless, of course, you apologized and apologized handsomely; that "sorry you took offense at my harmless/true remark" shit didn't fly in the age of the code duello.
There is a difference between being wrong and being a liar, which it is a common leftist tactic to elide.
Which practice should end, or be ended. By, as you put it, any means necessary.
And there's a difference between doing something illegal, and doing something immoral.
Examples of illegal yet moral activity: Acts of civil disobedience by civil rights demonstrators, anti-apartheid activists, Gandhi.
AL said: "Great to see the right wingers here display their embrace of lawlessness and immorality when it serves their purpose."
Apparently AL equates illegal with immoral.
One report I read tonight speculates these guys were trying to put the office phones out of commission then see how the staffers reacted - would they ignore it? laugh at constituents not being able to get through? There's been some local conservative complaints about not getting through on the phone to Landrieu's office - I've called in the past with no trouble, but no idea if it's the case now. I email her, and get a reply usually.
If that's the set-up, I can't see where they're in deep shit legally. I guess it would have been too boring to record their efforts to get through to the senator's office and demonstrate if the complaints were accurate.
They were there to get visual and audio proof that the office was blocking phone calls.
The listening device that was blocks away, was only a recorder that was capturing events as they happened.
NO attempts were made to tap or bug the system in the closet or phones on desks; they were only looking to see if something shady had been done to jack up the phone lines for incoming calls.
Unscrewing the handset was only to make their presence seem legit--they had to do *something*.
Botched from start to finish, because they have been raised on television programs where the absurd always works.
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