Althouse: "Mr. Obama directly addressed one of the most delicate topics confronting black leaders..."

June 19, 2009

"Mr. Obama directly addressed one of the most delicate topics confronting black leaders..."

"... how much responsibility absent fathers bear for some of the intractable problems afflicting black American. He noted that more than half of all black children lie in single-parent households."

Well, the kids should take some responsibility, if half of them are lying.

77 comments:

rhhardin said...: With only a mother in the household, there's no chance to claim that dad said it was okay, so the opportunities for lying are actually reduced.; 6/19/09, 6:55 PM
Cabbage said...: Serious, non-baiting/trolling question:

What do you think they mean by "delicate"?; 6/19/09, 6:55 PM
JAL said...: Which half of him?; 6/19/09, 6:57 PM
john said...: "... was striking for its bluntness." Perhaps it was not otherwise striking, however, since Obama never mentioned, nor probably never listened to, Bill Cosby.; 6/19/09, 6:58 PM
The Drill SGT said...: since Obama never mentioned, nor probably never listened to, Bill Cosby.

bill who?

Cosby has been a nonperson to the NYT since he wandered off the plantation and started blaming blacks and liberals for the disfunctional black family; 6/19/09, 7:06 PM
rhhardin said...: Delicate means blacks are fools.

They go with the media story of blacks, they have black leaders.; 6/19/09, 7:11 PM
Jennifer said...: I like the message.

But, still have to admit the most interesting parts of the event were the pictures Tony Hawk has been sneaking all day skating through the halls of the White House.; 6/19/09, 7:12 PM
Zachary Sire said...: "Delicate" because it's tough for a black leader to tell his own kind that they are deadbeat losers.; 6/19/09, 7:15 PM
john said...: Zachary - "... to tell his own kind?

On the other hand, a lot of deadbeat losers voted for him.; 6/19/09, 7:23 PM
garage mahal said...: Well the other half aren't "deadbeat losers". Obama is not, in fact.; 6/19/09, 7:23 PM
Zachary Sire said...: you know what I mean. "his own kind"= blacks.

Not that I necessarily subscribe to any of that shit, but it's delicate to the NYT and everyone else because, oh, is it possible that a black person can speak poorly of other black people ??? Boring, phony delicacy that you never see when a white leader tells white people to stop being douche bags.; 6/19/09, 7:33 PM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Althouse, this is so "Althouse" to pierce the NYT phalanx of editors and zero in on this malaprop.

Is that the right word? Malaprop? or just poor grammar usage?

In any event,if it is a literal quote, Obama ain't firing on all cylinders. But I blame this on his college time at Occidental College, a non-Ivy nightmare I bet. Heh.

BTW, Peter Hoh gave me a lecture on lie vs lay last month.; 6/19/09, 7:46 PM
Chase said...: Why does Zachary get away with "his own kind" remark?. Where are downtownlad and Jeremy with their rigid and unbending outcry Zachary forever being a "bigot"?

Well here's some fodder for discussion for those reverse bigots:

How ironic - the President steps up and talks about the responsibility and importance of fathers. And yet we as a society want to play games with the effectiveness of a mother and father family and change the federal recognition of marriage to include any two (at least start there)people who want every possible benefit of mother and father families without being forced to meet societies desire for a mother AND a father in a family.

How idiotic and selfish. The President's words today are a complete waste of time if we as a nation change the federal recigniton of the meaning of one woman and one man marriage. definition of marriage; 6/19/09, 7:47 PM
Penny said...: I see we intend to throw out PC this Friday night?

Interesting move, Althouse.

So you've been lifting weights? Or maybe a friend of a weightlifter?

Either/or and all of the above fascinates me.

Hell, I'm feeling rather crazy myself!; 6/19/09, 7:59 PM
Zachary Sire said...: Furthermore, why should the "topic" be "confronting"? What is "confrontational" about it? If common sense (raise your fucking kids) is seen as confrontational, there is something seriously wrong.; 6/19/09, 8:04 PM
Geoff Matthews said...: I never read his autobiographies. Did he talk about the effect having an absent father had on his own development?; 6/19/09, 8:04 PM
Penny said...: While I love he spoke about this issue, we have no hope that dead beat boys with penises are reading this.

But hey. We can "imagine".

What would it take to get their attention, I wonder?; 6/19/09, 8:23 PM
Revenant said...: Cosby has been a nonperson to the NYT since he wandered off the plantation and started blaming blacks and liberals for the disfunctional black family.

Eh, he's been catching shit from the politically correct crowd for a lot longer than that. People condemned the Cosby Show for featuring black characters who were (gasp) married, educated, successful, and well-spoken. And before that, he was criticized for not having overtly racial comedy material in his routine.

But in the end his critics will be forgotten; Cosby's comedy will be remembered.; 6/19/09, 8:38 PM
Automatic_Wing said...: Funny how this NYT thumb-sucker delicately skirts around the truth about Obama's father, mentioning that he died when Barry was 21 but not how he abandoned his family when his son was just a wee lad.

Also, the article tells us that Obama gave a blunt, direct fatherhood speech, but they don't tell you one thing he actually said. No transcript, no direct quotes, we just have to take their word that it was "striking for its bluntness".

I hate the &*^%$^@! New York Times.; 6/19/09, 8:45 PM
Synova said...: I think it's important that all men realize that they matter to their children a great deal. I think that fathers actually have more influence on their children than mothers do. This might be due to which parent does most of the baby and toddler care... "Dad" gets to be the parent for the kids when they are trying to leave childhood, because childhood is mother dominated... but I could be wrong. Still, the value of a strong relationship with a father is vital for girls understanding how they should be treated and for boys to know how to be a man.

It's possible to actually say that these days. For a very long time, I'd say for my lifetime, any mention of how important fathers are was met with demands that we not make divorced or single mothers "feel bad."

If the "single parent" thing wasn't your idea or your fault... why should it make you feel bad?; 6/19/09, 8:47 PM
Penny said...: The most delicate topic out there today is how our leader robs his brother, Peter, to pay his brother, Paul.

It's a good thing he even chooses to attempt a conversation about his brother, Penis.; 6/19/09, 8:48 PM
somefeller said...: The Drill Sgt says: "Cosby has been a nonperson to the NYT since he wandered off the plantation and started blaming blacks and liberals for the disfunctional black family."

That's odd. One would think such a nonperson wouldn't have merited a complimentary article like this one or this one during the past couple of years. But, hey, keep lighting up those strawmen.; 6/19/09, 8:58 PM
jayne_cobb said...: Delicate?

This is hardly delicate.

Bitching about deadbeat dads is in no way controversial, even when you bring up race (at least when you're black).; 6/19/09, 8:58 PM
Penny said...: His brother, Penis, has big feet.; 6/19/09, 9:04 PM
Penny said...: His brother, Penis, has big feet.; 6/19/09, 9:04 PM
Penny said...: As you can see...TWO feet.; 6/19/09, 9:06 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: Is Obama "talking down to black people" again?

Is Jesse going to "cut the nuts off" the president?

Wait, he may not have to.; 6/19/09, 9:07 PM
Penny said...: So now what, Peter, Paul and Penis?; 6/19/09, 9:08 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: What is "confrontational" about it? If common sense (raise your fucking kids) is seen as confrontational, there is something seriously wrong.

Zachary just stop sugarcoating it. Just tell us how you really feel ;); 6/19/09, 9:15 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "lie" is undoubtably a typo for "live." I just thought it was funny.; 6/19/09, 9:25 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "lie" is undoubtably a typo for "live." I just thought it was funny.; 6/19/09, 9:25 PM
a psychiatrist who learned from veterans said...: Miss prints have a royal history. From Stalin and His Hangmen, 'misprints had been disingenuously used to annoy authority. Queen Victoria was reported to have "pissed" over Waterloo Bridge. Substituting one consonant made Stalin "pisser" or "shitter" (ssalin, sralin). Stalingrad could be set to read "Stalin is a reptile" (Stalin gad). Under Stalin, misprints were declared "sorties by the class enemy." Writers or typesetters could die for one misplaced letter, as Andrei Tarkovsjy's film Mirror unforgettably suggests.'; 6/19/09, 9:35 PM
Lem Vibe Bandit said...: I was trying to be facetious Zachary.; 6/19/09, 9:36 PM
Penny said...: There isn't one thing funny about this topic, Althouse.

You know that.; 6/19/09, 9:43 PM
KCFleming said...: What's the big intractable deal?
A single parent child can grow up to be President!

Who needs fathers?; 6/19/09, 10:09 PM
Anonymous said...: Ironic, coming from Obama, don't you think? Since it was a large lefty government program that incented and caused the collapse of the black family, made black fathers irrelevant.

Obama's words will never forestall what his programs will cause.; 6/19/09, 10:47 PM
Penny said...: Althouse backs off from Peter, Paul and Penis.

Can barely wait to see how she turns up her womanly HEAT.

Peter? Paul? Penis?

Pick one?; 6/19/09, 10:58 PM
Chip Ahoy said...: This seems to have been a very good speech on a very apt topic and I can think of no one better to deliver it. I also believe Obama himself makes a fine example of fatherhood. His own children are quite fortunate to be raised in such a sterling solid family. I do appreciate a man walking the talk.

OMG, gotta go. There's Oletia Adams singing Don't Let the Sun Go Down on Me.; 6/19/09, 10:59 PM
Unknown said...: Penny, penis envy much?; 6/19/09, 11:17 PM
Zachary Sire said...: I know Lem ;)

What the hell is with the penis talk? Did I miss something. Who is "Penny"?; 6/19/09, 11:32 PM
Penny said...: Sy?

NO.

I must say that I can play a game of tag with the best of them though.; 6/19/09, 11:33 PM
Jeff with one 'f' said...: Not to mention his own mother dragged him around the Third World and then dumped him on her parents in order to do her own thing...; 6/19/09, 11:48 PM
Zachary Sire said...: Not to mention his own mother dragged him around the Third World and then dumped him on her parents in order to do her own thing

So, is that supposed to be a dig at Obama's mother (who's been dead for years) or at Obama the young child? Nothin like ripping on some old dead lady because you hate her son! Classy.; 6/20/09, 12:07 AM
Synova said...: Well, ZPS, if we're talking about fathers we can't be too worried about criticizing someone who seems not to have had a clue about kids needing a dad.; 6/20/09, 12:49 AM
Synova said...: "Ironic, coming from Obama, don't you think? Since it was a large lefty government program that incented and caused the collapse of the black family, made black fathers irrelevant."

This isn't quite right, I think, although some people figure that the government programs kept black families from *recovering*.

What really did it to start was labor unions.

I recall a documentary, though the details are getting dim, that made the claim that there were so few jobs that urban black men were *allowed* to do that most black families had to be supported by women in non-union (domestic) jobs. Black men could be Pullman Porters and very little else. To work in a *trade* one had to be a member of a union and the unions absolutely, positively, did not include black men.

That's a lot of generations of habit to get over. Providing government incentives for families headed by single women did nothing to help, of course. I'm not disputing that at all.; 6/20/09, 12:58 AM
bearbee said...: Our society has taken to denigrating the role of men.

An example of the profound effect lacking a father can be in other species.

We can learn from elephants; 6/20/09, 6:14 AM
AllenS said...: Why do blacks have to have leaders? Can't blacks lead their own lives? Do they have to be told how to think and what to do?; 6/20/09, 7:23 AM
traditionalguy said...: Obama misses the point that most single Black mothers are not willing to discipline their children Single white mothers still discipline their children.; 6/20/09, 7:24 AM
I'm Full of Soup said...: Professor:
I was trying to pay you a compliment for your keen eye on words, the meaning of words and usage.

Was it a typo? Lie vs. live? Or did TOTUS have the day off?; 6/20/09, 7:34 AM
KCFleming said...: "We can learn from elephants"

All good statists know that from elephants one can extract ivory.; 6/20/09, 7:43 AM
bearbee said...: All good statists know that from elephants one can extract ivory.

And further, social engineering can produce unintended consequences.; 6/20/09, 8:29 AM
Anonymous said...: we can also learn something from the blue people instead of black and white or olive and magenta.

The Blue People have a matriarchal society: unusual enough in terms of "Western" cultures, almost unbelievable in context of what is assumed to be "Islamic". Women keep all the household keys, show off their "strength" by impromptu wrestling matches, go unveiled - while the men modestly cover their noses and mouths with the end of their tagelmousses (several meters of gauze, wrapped around the head in a turban), and have equal - if not greater rights to choose/take as many lovers as they wish before marriage: it only increases their value, skill and desirability.

Why do Blue men, feared to this day for their ferocity and skill as warriors and respected as businessmen, "veil" and defer to their own women? Because of their belief that the world has a great number of evil "spirits" eager to invade the body via any opening - especially the mouth and nostrils, so they must cover/protect the entranceways, but since women know the secret of life: only they can conceive and givebirth, they have natural protection against these evil spirits.

to be found at orientaldancer.com

signed,

a belly dancer in a blue shimmy skirt whose fingers do much better in dance than on a keyboard grid. Flow!.; 6/20/09, 8:30 AM
Jennifer said...: You, a law professor, seeing humor.; 6/20/09, 8:36 AM
Anonymous said...: the law professor might want to check out why a tribal belly dancer uses her middle finger.

who cares about intelligence., there are more important matters of the soul and indi-go-go dyes, not dies, maybe dolphin dives.; 6/20/09, 9:16 AM
bagoh20 said...: I have been relentlessly critical of Obama on this blog and I feel justifiably, BUT this is one situation where the color of the president's skin actually matters and helps.
-
I am happy to praise him for this message. In fact, for the first time in my life, I'm proud of this president. [sic]
-
Thank you, Mr. President; 6/20/09, 9:25 AM
bagoh20 said...: Speaking of "delicate", why is it that only proud racists will mention the obvious: that in our world at this time everywhere blacks are in charge the society is in shambles. From Compton, CA to Haiti to South Africa and everywhere in between.

I'm sure I'll be called a racists just for stating the obvious. I take no pleasure in this fact, but believe it will not be improved until we can at least acknowledge the problem.

I know all the "imperialism' justifications, but a lot of other former colonies are doing well. Even in the United States blacks have more problems than any other group.
-
I don't have an answer, but I think the fact that we can't even talk about it may be why it persists. "Delicate" means intractable.; 6/20/09, 9:51 AM
Kev said...: We can learn from elephants.

That's a great story, bearbee; thanks for linking. And I totally agree with the author's comparison of this elephant society to the human race in this regard.; 6/20/09, 10:01 AM
Wince said...: Seems to be pretty timid stuff coming from Obama, insinuating that irresponsible fathers of his own sex and the race he is most closely identified with are a problem.

If he really wanted to go against the grain of his natural "empathetic" consituencies, he could have taken up the issue of responsible fathers who are forcibly absent from the lives of their children.

Next to blaming Bush, this president's penchant to reach for the apologia is endless.

For liberal, P.C. Obama the corollary to white-male guilt on Father's Day appears to be black male guilt -- just for the day.; 6/20/09, 10:11 AM
TMink said...: Hmm, I wonder what would happen if the government stopped subsidizing single mom's who raise kids that are so much more likely to be incarcerated and on government assistance?

Trey; 6/20/09, 11:51 AM
barrydov said...: At this point, it's neither courageous, empathetic, or intelligent to go after the men alone. There is a sizable minority of irresponsible, immature individuals among poor blacks-- women as well as men. By attacking men only, Obama stays within the PC world.

Almost none of the poor single mothers was raped into pregnancy, and few married, had kids, and were later abandoned.

Blaming men only is also not likely to help. The men involved are unlikely to see things through this PC lens. If they alone are blamed and the women are potrayed as passive victims, the most likely effect on the men is to make them angrier and less willing to compromise.

This turkey (O) is turning out to be a lot worse than I expected in just about every way-- and I sure didn't expect much, believe me.; 6/20/09, 12:10 PM
Jim said...: You want to know why the black family has broken down in America? Here's a powerful anecdote from my wife's work:

She was providing family therapy through Medicaid to a 14-year old girl and her family. When asked about getting ahead in school, so she could get ahead in life the girl was dismissive: "Why should I get a job?"

Her life plan consisted of getting pregnant at the earliest opportunity so she could go on welfare and get her own apartment. She already knew how to work the system to get her needs met and didn't understand why she should aspire to wanting more for herself. The entire concept was foreign to her.

...just stop and let that really sink in for a minute...

Previous commenters have each had pieces of the puzzle which has brought our society to this sad situation. Here's my own personal Top 10:

1) A government-run welfare system that enables people to manipulate it into getting a lifetime of income.
2) A system that rewards young girls for getting pregnant.
3) The veneration of single mothers and the consistent denigration of fathers and fatherhood.
4) The identity politics of the Democratic Party.
5) The victim politics of the NAACP, Black Panthers, Nation of Islam, La Raza, etc.
6) The racial hucksterism of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton.
7) The cultural belief that studying and achieving academic success is "acting white."
8) The tolerance and encouragement of the "stop snitching" culture that encourages crime and criminal behavior.
9) Excuse-making for the failures of urban black culture by guilty white liberals rather than demanding social change.
10) Corruption of local government that lines the pockets of its elected Democratic Party members and their cronies first and foremost with absolutely zero regard for the inhabitants of the city.

And before people start talking about how this isn't a problem caused or furthered by the Democratic Party, its members, or its policies, let's look at the party affiliation of the cities (and states) where the problems are the worst:

1) Los Angeles
2) Oakland/Compton
3) Chicago
4) New York City
5) Philadelphia
6) Detroit
7) Baltimore
8) Washington, D.C.

Every single one of these blighted urban areas shares one thing in common: decades long election and re-election of Democratic leadership (and their disastrous policies) with ever-worsening results which are and have been entirely predictable.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again...; 6/20/09, 12:39 PM
MayBee said...: kinbote-
I could not agree more. The idea that family problems out there are all the men's fault is specious at best.

Using Father's Day to further that idea is - or should be- unacceptable. Either that, or next Mother's Day I expect a speech from Obama lamenting how his mother chose to have a baby with a married man she hardly knew, then selfishly gallivanted around Asia leaving his grandparents to raise him.; 6/20/09, 12:41 PM
Jeremy said...: Zachary Paul Sire said..."Delicate" because it's tough for a black leader to tell his own kind that they are deadbeat losers."

Ahhh, nothing like the smell of an ignorant racist to start the day.

And, at some point, don't ALL kids "lie" about something?; 6/20/09, 1:18 PM
Jeremy said...: "I could not agree more. The idea that family problems out there are all the men's fault is specious at best."

I thought it was a "lack" of a man that creates the problems.; 6/20/09, 1:19 PM
Jeremy said...: Jim - "Her life plan consisted of getting pregnant at the earliest opportunity so she could go on welfare and get her own apartment."

I don't believe your story.

This is nothing more than the same, time worn stereotype thrown out by racist assholes for years on end.

Put you hood back on and take a hike.; 6/20/09, 1:23 PM
Chris said...: If only half of them are lying, that's pretty good. (Happy to be the foil on that one for a nice joke from Meade.); 6/20/09, 1:28 PM
Wince said...: Jeremy said...

Jim-
I don't believe your story.

Have to say that is one piss-poor rebuttal, if that's what it's supposed to be.

Seems to me Jeremy failed to address in any way Jim's substantive points about the politics of dependency, exploitation, replication and perpetuation of the underclass by urban welfare statists since the Great Society.; 6/20/09, 2:08 PM
bagoh20 said...: "This is nothing more than the same, time worn stereotype thrown out by racist assholes for years on end.
"

The self-blinded irony of that statement is astounding and the main obstacle to any solution to this problem.

Jeremy. again you manage to clarify the issue with a self-sacrificing exposure of lameness and archaic thinking.

I wish I could thank you more appropriately.; 6/20/09, 2:20 PM
MayBee said...: I thought it was a "lack" of a man that creates the problems.

Sometimes the lack of a man creates the problems.
Sometimes its the lack of good decision making by women that creates the problems.
And often it's just piss-poor parenting from one or the other or both.; 6/20/09, 2:52 PM
Chase said...: Jim, you are spot on.

And don't worry about Jeremy - he's not a man. He's a piece of shit talking out of a piece of shit's asshole.

Actually, "Jeremy" in reality is Ann Althouse posting under an alter ego. THAT's the only reason "Jeremy" is tolerated here by the "host".; 6/20/09, 4:56 PM
Jim said...: Chase -

I no longer worry about the little narcissist. It's attention that feeds his illusion that he's more important than he actually is.

As for the story, whether he wants to believe it or not, it's the absolute truth. When my wife related the story, we were both dumbfounded.

It wasn't even the essence of the story: that she wanted to have a baby to get her own place. If you've been around the block more than once, you've probably heard stories to that effect before.

What was utterly shocking was the girl's complete lack of comprehension that she should want more from her life, that she was worth more than being yet another welfare queen. It wasn't so much that she was being intentionally manipulative: she had absolutely no other frame of reference from which to operate.

The dependency you don't even understand is the worst kind, and this poor girl has been sentenced to a lifetime of subsistence living by a culture that doesn't encourage excellence and thinks that the height of achievement is figuring out how to vote themselves another $20 a week in their welfare checks. That's a culture that needs to be destroyed and rebuilt from the ground up.

I blame LBJ. I blame every person who thinks they're doing people a favor by giving them a fish instead of teaching them how to fish. It's not charity these people need: it's a leg up. It's the worst kind of condescension to just hand someone a check and wash your hands of them. These people are human beings: not just votes at a ballot box. Welfare is just the new form of slavery, and every single American is paying for it: most of all, those who are receiving it.; 6/20/09, 5:10 PM
Synova said...: "I don't believe your story.

This is nothing more than the same, time worn stereotype thrown out by racist assholes for years on end.

Put you hood back on and take a hike."

I believe it.

I believe it because I was talking to my neighbor, 16 year old and blond as can be... her idea of a good plan was to get herself taken away from her parents, sue for emancipation, and then move into her very own apartment that would be paid for by the state.

I *gently* suggested that if she had the possibility of parental support (they *weren't* kicking her out, amazingly enough) that living off the taxes paid by others was sort of lame. I don't think she'd ever heard anything remotely like that before.

The "system" has no way to tell who it is that has no where to go and who simply has no where she *wants* to go.

My neighbor ended up spending some time in Juvie but last I heard she seemed to think she'd gotten accepted for the "legal adult, let us pay your rent" program.

Kids aren't stupid... even the stupid ones.; 6/20/09, 6:09 PM
Ralph L said...: In the 80's, my father dated a woman whose son was a young doctor in the coal region of Kentucky. Some of the miners were trying to get the black lung pension by getting black lung, and of course, the hot young women were trying to marry them. So the federal government provides incentives for marriage for poor white people!; 6/20/09, 6:35 PM
Jim said...: Another thing to think about in a declining economy:

The relative economic success of the 1990s rested primarily on 3 pillars:

1) restrained government spending by a divided government which prevented the sort of mass economic sabotage that we're seeing today;
2) the ephemeral "tech bubble" which burst in 1999-2000; and

...most importantly for this discussion...

3) the welfare reform which Republicans introduced in their Contract With America (and which Clinton eventually got on board with when it became clear how popular it was) which forced millions of previous "welfare queens" who were otherwise fully capable of working to seek gainful employment.

Their entry into the workplace and the powerful boost they gave the economy they generated are often swept under the rug by Leftists who would just as soon that people didn't realize that how damaging it is to the psyche and the economy when you encourage potentially useful contributers to society to collect government checks in exchange for their votes at the ballot box every couple of years.; 6/20/09, 6:40 PM
Jim said...: As Synova and Ralph's anecdotes prove, the problem of government dependency is far from limited to the urban black community. They are disproportionately affected by it in terms of percentages of their community, but do not receive the greatest amount of government assistance in terms of absolute numbers.

It's a societal problem that needs addressing sooner rather than later.; 6/20/09, 6:43 PM
The Dude said...: I am sure he is just passing along wisdon he learned from his father.

In reality, there is no problem, nothing to see here, move along.; 6/20/09, 8:28 PM
TMink said...: Jim wrote: "Welfare is just the new form of slavery, and every single American is paying for it: most of all, those who are receiving it."

Great comments Jim.

Trey; 6/20/09, 10:42 PM