NY Post headline."Mark my words," Biden told donors at a Seattle fund-raiser Sunday night.
"It will not be six months before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy. The world is looking. We're about to elect a brilliant 47-year-old senator president of the United States of America.
"Watch. We're going to have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.
"And he's going to need help . . . to stand with him. Because it's not going to be apparent initially; it's not going to be apparent that we're right."
Here's Bill Kristol on the subject:
So Biden expects a test of the kind Kennedy faced after his disastrous meeting with Khrushchev in Vienna in June, 1961, less than five months into Kennedy’s presidency. Biden’s presumably thinking of the Soviet-backed construction of the Berlin Wall a couple of months later. Kennedy did nothing, and was criticized for his weakness back home.
So--leaving aside the merits of what Kennedy did or didn’t do in 1961--Biden is forecasting that Obama will have what seems to be a weak response to a provocation from, say, Iran or Russia, and he’s urging the liberals of Seattle and elsewhere to stand with Obama against the expected domestic criticism.
In other words, Biden is forecasting inaction by Obama in the face of testing by a dictator....
Fair interpretation?
Posts
150 comments:
Me, I'm wondering if Biden is secretly on the Hillary in 2012 team.
The quote I heard (audio) had him say something about Obama having steel in his spine.
He said it very forcefully, too.
So have you changed your mind on Obama yet?
Are you still going to vote for him?
Palin may have her short comings but making your running mate look weak isn't one of them.
Which means she has more common sense then Joe, a real schmuck.
So score one for McCain.
Honestly, how can one feel comfortable with the idea of Joe being President?
Sarah will listen, Joe won't.
For Redneck and racist readers:
"Gird your loins," Biden told the crowd. "We're gonna win with your help, God willing, we're gonna win, but this is not gonna be an easy ride. This president, the next president, is gonna be left with the most significant task. It's like cleaning the Augean stables, man."
"Gird your loins!"
It means put your pants on in Bible talk.
"Cleaning the Augean stables, man"
That's the mythological equivalent of what one does before a colonoscopy.
It doesn't go far enough. Mr. Barely will be a puppet on a string further solidifying his ineptitude in matters foreign and domestic. Reid and Pelosi are salivating at the chance of getting their hooks into him. Oh wait.
Answer: No. It's Bill Kristol.
Next question?
Meh. It's Joltin' Joe Biden. Who really cares what he says? He's a showhorse.
The quote I heard (audio) had him say something about Obama having steel in his spine.
Well that's a comfort. But what Biden is saying is that while he knows Obama's got a spine of steel, the instigators of these "generated cris[e]s" do not. Otherwise why would they need to "test his mettle?"
Ann. If you use history as a guide or a comparative within the context of Biden says about Mr. Barely's untested unworthiness, why will you still place your probable vote for someone like that? Or will you surprise us with a trick that you didn't vote for him at all as a little treat instead?
I'm kind of amused that you put up a comment about Biden after people griped about it in the other thread.
I love Biden. I love that he's just out there saying whatever the F he wants to. I said in another thread that Biden didn't think Obama was ready a year ago and I've seen no indication that he changed his mind.
Biden is correct that it won't be apparent [they're] right, because no Democrat since LBJ has actually stood firm against such a test.
In fairness, neither did Reagan in Lebanon, but he got it right eventually.
A young, inexperienced, Democrat is the bad guys' trifecta of weakness.
miller said...
Meh. It's Joltin' Joe Biden. Who really cares what he says? He's a showhorse.
Show-horses everywhere were just insulted by your characterization. Leave show-horses ALONE!!!11
And whether Kristol's analysis is fair or not, I will tell you that I've been looking out my window for flying pigs today, because today I actually agree with Dan Rather about media bias!
No, JoeyB is moving the goalpost in, lowering the expectations of Obama's response to a crisis. Yes, he's admitting that O will get tested, no one has a reason not to test him, he's effectively neutered the Whitehouse's ability to respond to anything short of a direct attack by a clear and distinct known state actor. What Joe;s doing is saying that no matter how epic the fail is, it's all part of the plan, so stick with us. "And he's going to need help . . . to stand with him. Because it's not going to be apparent initially; it's not going to be apparent that we're right." It's kind of smart in a (sad, tragic sort of) way, to start lowering expectations to the point where simply competence can/will be hailed by his media proxies as brilliance.
I just heard today
news that has not been widely reported:
Joe Biden has had two brain aneurysms.
Possible brain damage?
Do we really want Joe Biden one heartbeat
away from the presidency?
Synova said...
The quote I heard (audio) had him say something about Obama having steel in his spine.
He said it very forcefully, too.
3:05 PM
He may set off a few metal detectors around the world.
Does it give him better reception on his mobile phone?
Can he pick up a TV signal from Japan?
What about Mexican soap operas?
"I'm kind of amused that you put up a comment about Biden after people griped about it in the other thread. "
It?
I didn't read whatever you're referring to, so inferences about cause and effect are wrong.
He's had hair plugs for his hair loss.
Can he get brain plugs for his mind loss?
It's a case of His & Hirsute.
miller, I think you have hit the explanation of all this: they drilled too deep and too many times for the plugs.
Do not question the Queen you fools.
She will do as she wills.
Al Qaeda and its predecessors tested Clinton and GWB early in their terms. I won't be surprised if they do something in the first 6 months or so of next year, no matter who is president.
I'm at the stage of tharn. Joltin' Joe could say Bambi will sign away Iowa to the European Union (as a homeland for bureaucrats, perhaps) and I don't think there would be a peep from anyone in the media except how the "Republicans and haters are raising timorous questions."
Feh. Joltin' Joe is saying quite clearly that Bambi is going to fail within the first six months of office on a significant foreign policy issue, and we should all just avoid being upset, because even though his failure will not be popular, at least he means well.
We don't know if Bambi's going to give away Israel or Iraq at this point. But now at least we know that if we're against it, it's probably the right thing to do.
@mcg: thanks for the link.
@Peter: Rather's point has to do with the media, not the bad guys.
I agree with Biden that a crisis will be visited upon the new President, whomever he may be. IIRC, each of the last two Presidents was greeted in his first year by an attack on the World Trade Center. It's an understandable tactic.
It's interesting that Biden assumes that Obama's response would be unpopular with people over whom the attendees at the Seattle fundraiser have influence. Those people would possibly be liberal Democrats. Perhaps Obama is already laying plans to respond to any crisis by invading Pakistan?
I know people are saying McCain will be tested too, and maybe that's right.
But if we're talking about Biden's quote here, it's important to point out that he's saying Obama will be tested precisely because of his youth and his relative inexperience on the international stage. This is especially apparent if you listen to the longer more ominous version of the story (there are two different speeches floating around). That he calls it a "generated" crisis emphasizes the point even more.
Thus Biden is talking about something that would not necessarily happen if McCain were elected. I'm not saying that McCain wouldn't be tested too---but Biden is not saying that here.
We need you to stand with him now?
Is Biden saying that their margin of victory will save lives? That Obama may not be tested if enough people vote for him?
The gall of these people.
A republican says something like that and he would be ripped like a losing lottery ticket.
Fair interpretation?
No. Kristol is wrong, as usual.
Biden is on message playing to the basic Axelrod narrative that Obama is a morally superior victim of morally inferior people at home and abroad.
Obama is represented as a victim at home of racism by the Clintons and their supporters and by McCain and his supporters.
He is now being represented as a victim of threatening foreigners abroad.
It's up to the Good White People to reject this hate, bigotry and sinfulness and stand by their savior.
It doesn't matter who is trying to crucify him, the Jews or the Romans. Either way we need to keep the faith.
You must understand that Joltin' Joe cannot speak anything that would affect the commitment of his supporters. He could say Bambi is going to support the elimination of the Stars and Stripes to be replaced by the UN sky blue and his acolytes and sycophants would bobble their heads right along.
At this point, the election is over. Pity the poor Republicans trying to stem this tide.
If you dont vote for Obama God will call him home?
And they say we are the fear mongers.
@MCG: I have feeling that some people want Obama to be more like JFK, and Biden enables that here.
Those people will just not let go of Came-alot
Here's the "more ominous" version of the speech that I was talking about. The audio is bad so you'll have to turn up your volume. This version does not have the "spine of steel" quote.
If I understand correctly, this longer version came after the one quoted by NBC, MSNBC. Whether they intend to or not they are obfuscating by saying that their shorter, better version is "the quote." There are two versions floating around.
I have feeling that some people want Obama to be more like JFK, and Biden enables that here.
That may be so, and that's why Bill Kristol's analysis is relevant: because Kennedy fouled up his "test" pretty badly, in hindsight.
But since Colin Powell endorsed Obama, our enemies are sure not to test Obama.
Because Obama would be able to lean on Powell for his advice, which would be to . . .?
Some one on an earlier thread characterized Joe's statement as an inoculation. If Obama doesn't take the tact that GWB did after 9/11, you can't say he's feckless or scared, you should be prepared for nothing to be done in response.
Gee all we need now is an OBL video to remind us, some more, how there are many people willing to kill us in a far quicker way than losing 25% of your 401(k).
Fair.
I think Biden is saying, if Israel bombs Iran, we may decide not to join in, in which case Obama will be pounded so hard and so long in certain circles, including much of the media, that he will only wish he had an approval rating as high as George Bush's.
We shall see soon enough if Joey Plugs is correct. I think his ability to predict the future is about as good as his understanding of how bad his "hair" looks.
He is not very bright, but that does not seem to matter.
I see one of two things happening:
1) Something happens here, and Obama overreacts in retaliation just to show how much steel is in his spine. He does seem kind of intent on doing something about Pakistan.
2) Iran attacks Israel, and he does nothing except say a few stern words and write a couple of letters.
Keep in mind that Joe D'oh was speaking to Obama supporters when he said "... it's not going to be apparent initially; it's not going to be apparent that we're right."
The truly remarkable thing is that George Bush has an approval rating as high as George Bush's
I just heard today
news that has not been widely reported:
Joe Biden has had two brain aneurysms.
And McCain has had cancer. Both men got over it. That fact that you have not heard it is not evidence that this was not widely reported.
My recollection is that the aneurysms had not burst, but were leaking.
Because Obama would be able to lean on Powell for his advice, which would be to . . .?
Not to do anything.
Pretty funny Obama's runny mate is throwing him under the bus....most republicans are disappointed with Palin, and McCain's choice of a VP, but really, McCain is the lesser of two evils, when our other choice is Obama and his lefty illuminati politicans in DC.
Notably he did not specify who Obama would need the steel spine to stand up against - foreign leaders or the U.S. citizenry...
"most republicans are disappointed with Palin, and McCain's choice of a VP"
Most, really?
FWIW, it seems more likely to fall over from an aneurysm than it does for cancer.
I've seen people drop dead from brain/blood failures. While I've seen people rapidly decline from cancer, they didn't just suddenly drop dead.
Imagine Joltin' Joe suffers an anurysm, leaving the VP office vacant. Then Bambi has a crisis. How much time will he spend getting his new VP confirmed?
But that's not likely to happen. Because if it does, Joltin' Joe warned us in advance, so we shouldn't worry. It's expected.
Where does this data point "most" come from?
Not a single Republican I know has anything but excitement and praise for Palin.
From the "Damn, he's old!" department, here's a quote from John McCain. (Yes, it's real.)
McCain recalled being ready to launch a bombing run during the October 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis, which Biden said over the weekend tested a new President John F. Kennedy and was the template for the kind of "generated crisis" the 47-year-old Obama would face within six months of taking office.
"I was on board the USS Enterprise," McCain, a former naval aviator, said in the capital city of Harrisburg. "I sat in the cockpit, on the flight deck of the USS Enterprise, off of Cuba. I had a target. My friends, you know how close we came to a nuclear war."
John McCain had a (small) role in the Cuban Missle Crisis, for goodness sakes? Holy crap!
(link)
If BHO is elected, this country is going to find itself in deep shit.
Not a single Republican I know has anything but excitement and praise for Palin.
Agreed, everyone I personally know, and have talked to about it, is positive on Palin. I only read about people who feel otherwise, whether first-hand from pundits or bloggers or second-hand from polls.
I should clarify, I mean every McCain supporter I've talked to is positive about it. Obviously the Obama supporters feel differently.
Peter Hoh-
There you go again...
Let's say you're a three year old, and you've had a babysitter from Whomp-Your-Ass coming to your house for about eight months, and he has a friend that works for the very same outfit that visits occasionally.
The babysitting firm of Whomp-Your-Ass has a very clear message, repeats it often and if you cross the line that they draw out well for you-they deal with you by well...whomping your ass.
Then you could have the guy from Club-Time-Out, they haven't been in the babysitting business for long, they are still feeling things out and most of their customers believe in rewarding bad behavior...
So-who are you more likely to test because you don't even know what the rules are and you're hoping that what they do tell you is-a pack of lies.
Gawd.
This analogy probably sucks on many levels but that's usually the trouble with them.
To hear it from the talking heads this Joe is suppose to be a Policy genius. And Palin is a knuckle dragging idiot. And yet I have seen much more growth out of Palin during this campaign. Now she started from a lower baseline, but she hasn't knifed the head of her ticket like Joe has.
Let's face it, in 2009 America's enemies are going to see us as ripe for a thumpin' if Obama is Prez, Joe is his Veep, and Harry and Nancy are Congressional heads. We're screwed.
I will jump on Ann about this post.
It should have been about Biden and his runaway mouth / brain. Why did you drag a conservative pundit /Krisol into it?
The whole story is Slow Joe which it seems is Slow Joe's goal.
I'm not trying to be the Pauline Kael of the right. I know that there are Republicans who don't like Palin (such as the WSJ gal and WFB's son), but of the Republicans I know?
Not a one. All of them are excited by her strength and calm.
Putting Palin on the ticket convinced some of them to actually support McCain.
So, while there may be Republicans who feel bad about Palin, I don't know of any.
On the one hand, we have a VP candidate who's predicting disaster if his candidate wins, and on the other we have a VP candidate who's predicting change and integrity if her candidate wins.
How very odd.
Joe Biden is peddling the soft bigotry of low expectations.
Racist!
"Vote for Bambi, because then our enemies are sure to attack."
The gasbag simply can't keep his big fat trap shut. What a douche.
Is it too late to dump this chump?
"I'm kind of amused that you put up a comment about Biden after people griped about it in the other thread. "
It?
In one of the Palin threads a bunch of people said something like "where is your post on Biden" and then right after that you had one up on Biden. (granted "it" isn't very specific).
That wasn't mean to be a criticism, in case it wasn't obvious.
It wasn't mean to be a cause and effect inference either. It was just fun timing, because I was reading comments and then the post showed up...man this is not a big deal. I shouldn't post at the top.
It's not just sayin' he's gonna be tested - it's sayin' that HE WILL FAIL THE TEST. Well, that's paraphrasing, but how are you supposed to interpret adding that It won't be apparent that he would have the right response... It's crazy insane.
This is what you get from the empty rhetoric, and a man with no record of real accomplishment.
I cannot comprehend why ANYONE would vote for Obama.
Hell we've probably have a lot of problems because most of America is probably more impressed with the poll from France which says they favor Obama by 63%
Link
than the poll of the US military which is for McCain by 68%
Link
You know we owe the French so much more, they've really done so much for us and they really are our betters unlike well...
The military poll is a fraud. It's reader's responses, not a poll.
Fox and Murdoch are the biggest frauds. I would legislate their fraud right out of existence. Shocking that those pieces of garbage would even attempt it, and now look-you have too.
Al Qaeda and its predecessors tested Clinton and GWB early in their terms. I won't be surprised if they do something in the first 6 months or so of next year, no matter who is president.
The al Qaeda sleeper cell that carried out the 9/11 attack was already carrying out their mission before they knew who'd be prez in 2001, so I agree it would've happened no matter who had been prez in 2001. But I also think it would've happened had Clinton been allowed to be prez for a 3rd term. The Clinton administration, the CIA, the FBI, etc., all kept failing the tests as al Qaeda was testing them throughout the 1990s, and so they hatched and set in motion the massive 9/11 plot.
I think Joe's telling us that Obama won't shoot until he sees the whites of their eyes.
Ironically, growing up in Hawaii didn't give Obama any appreciation for a pre-emptive attack.
Or, Bambi won't shoot as long as he's carrying the white flag.
From the "Damn, he's old!"
Heh. That was my exact reaction! Amazing that someone who participated in that is still around and active!
I do think our enemies prefer Obama to McCain. This is one of the reasons I was considering voting McCain. But I concluded that Obama would likely turn out much tougher on national security than our enemies realize. But, yes, he probably will be tested by one or more of our enemies. But America's enemies shouldn't make us afraid to vote for new blood in the White House. If we treated elections that way, we'd never be able to get change in the White House.
Re: The Kennedy comparison.
He was tested hard in World War II. The man swam for miles pulling an injured shipmate behind. Tough guy, didn't give up, led his men to safety.
He struggled for years with terrible physical problems. And had reasonably substantial national political experience.
What crisis has Sen. Obama ever faced?
I can't think of one.
We're fighting three wars (Iraq, Afghanistan, al-Qaeda generally), and we might elect a man who's never been tested?
Obama man of steel? or
Obama turn-the-other-cheek?
I think that's a fair question now.
GAWD!
I feel like Billy Bob Thorton from Primary Colors
Who is suppose to be James Carville and he does this monologue-
Suppose you are in the woods and your taking a shit and these two doves come a long , but meanwhile you're being charged by these wild boars and they start saying things like-
Chicago!...
[...]
Now do you pull up your britches, or do you shoot the doves?
I believe Bambi's crisis occurred when he had to figure out just how long he'd go before breaking his word on campaign financing.
Fox and Murdoch are the biggest frauds. I would legislate their fraud right out of existence.
Freedom of the press is for pussies.
The fact that France and our enemies both want Obama as POTUS is a great reason to vote McCain.
As for the cool of Obama, did anyone think he displayed a first class temperament when Russia invaded Georgia?
Putin can't wait for Obama to get in.
Damn it!
It's Obama's message.
It's all over the place plus more than one guy of the media elites is voting for him because surely he's lying to us.
Do you people know where he stands on Pakistan?
Damn it-
How about Darfur?
Hint: His own damn office in Washington D.C. is confused on that latter issue.
Let's see what else?
Ya! Where the hell is he lately on weapons systems-
Is he for 'em or against 'em?
You know literally you could find supporting evidence for both of those positions.
Yippeee!
Bambi's for invading Pakistan, but against supporting Iraq.
A country that won't maintain its alliances is a country that won't get its way in negotiations.
Integrity:
Are you being truly serious when you say you "would legislate Fox and Murdoch out of existence"?
The fact that France and our enemies both want Obama as POTUS is a great reason to vote McCain.
Pakistanis seem to be for McCain. Or rather, they're not for Obama, because of his threats to invade their country!
junyo said...
Fox and Murdoch are the biggest frauds. I would legislate their fraud right out of existence.
Freedom of the press is for pussies.
Is it freedom to present to their audience a send in reader's survey as a poll? There was no polling done at all. It's called fraud.
I believe at some point we the people must force all media that have access to public airwaves to present facts or something vaguely resembling them. You as a repub have seen them lie about your people many times, should that be allowed on public airwaves? I don't think so.
Someone should tell Obama that Pakistan has nukes.
His attempt to flank McCain from the right on that issue shows his stupidity.
One would think Brokaw would have asked Gen./Sec. Powell about this issue as well as Iraq.
There's an old saying "Who guards the guardians?"
We have libel laws in place.
If lying about a story is cause for a station to be shut down, why is CBS still broadcasting after the fake-but-accurate TANG memos?
You as a repub have seen them lie about your people many times, should that be allowed on public airwaves? I don't think so.
Without purporting to speak for repubs, the answer is yes, because the alternative is that the government (the only entity with the power to dispense access to the airwaves) gets to decide what the truth is.
In other words. Elect us because right afterwards we will be attacked and/or there will be a terrorist event, and Obama will not have the faintest clue on what to do or how to act. What we will do will either be so ineffective that you will be disappointed or we will do something so heinous that you will be furious. But stand by us anyway even though we can't find our asses with both hands.
Awe inspiring. And I don't mean in a good way.
Integrity - when you say that poll is a fraud do you mean to infer McCain doesn't have that level of support or that its a response versus poll?
Because McCain is enjoying a substantial level of support amongst military personnel from who I meet.
miller said...
There's an old saying "Who guards the guardians?"
We have libel laws in place.
If lying about a story is cause for a station to be shut down, why is CBS still broadcasting after the fake-but-accurate TANG memos?
I didn't say shut them down, just huge fines for fraud. CBS should have been in huge trouble with the FCC for that, and their executives hauled in front of congress.
I am always surprised that Americans don't care more about these things.
Freedon of speech does not mean you can defraud and slander.
So you agree we have existing laws in place.
I don't understand then why you want more better laws.
If Fox or NBC is libeling or slandering someone, that person has laws in place.
If you want some "Truth Council" to determine whether a statement made in a campaign is factual -- well, good luck on that. The composition of the council will have more to do with the determination of fact than any other data.
Integrity - just who decides what is fraud and what is not? The US libel laws don't work so well - 1st Amendment and all that. Are you proposing the Government investigate and decide on fines?
Biden's remarks about Obama's performance under pressure are cryptic enough that many interpretations, positive and negative, are possible.
What is not cryptic is that Biden thinks our enemies will see Obama as a weak leader unworthy of respect. And I agree with Biden on that one.
As Guliani pointed out--Joe Biden said in the primaries that Barack Obama is not ready to be president and Joe Biden was right.
Bob said...
Integrity - when you say that poll is a fraud do you mean to infer McCain doesn't have that level of support or that its a response versus poll?
Because McCain is enjoying a substantial level of support amongst military personnel from who I meet.
He very well may have that level of support. A reader's poll has no statistical significance and when I read the headline on Fox News this morning I assumed it was a commissioned poll, when I read the story I was stunned to see the blatant fraud of the headline.
I'm sure that the difference between the headline and the actual story surprised you as well.
What fool would venture to test the mettle of young Barack Obama while Joe Biden is in the White House? Isn't Biden just engaging in characteristic self-effacement here?
Original George said...
"What crisis has Sen. Obama ever faced?"
He met a terrorist from the 60's by the name of Bill Ayers, and joined in the change that America wants and needs.
No one hates journalists more than I do but we should all fight for their rights to spew their lies and fabrications. The government should not be involved. You should read the people you believe: CNN, NPR, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS, The New York Times and the rest of the crowd who are part and parcel of the Obama Campaign. The rest of us can read the people we believe: FOX,The Wall St. Journal, and the Weekly Standard and the few organs that are part and parcel of the McCain campaign. There are no journalists, only partisans of one stripe or another. Choose your poison. Ridicule or scorn the ones you disagree with. But don’t let the government regulate them.
Don't worry; they will all be gone soon. They are all doomed.
Iran attacks Israel and he does nothing except say a few stern words and writes a couple of letters.
This is why Israel will almost certainly launch against Iran in the period between Obama's election and the time he takes office.
Survival is just a tad more important than showing proper deference to the Anointed One, at least to the Israelis.
You misread a news story and therefore Fox should be shut down?
That sounds a bit frightening to put into play.
A lot of things come in to play when we talk about "untrue news story."
I don't think I want some government official determining who gets to publish something.
I'd rather weed through the truths and lies myself.
The biases of the networks is fairly well known. Fox leans somewhat right in news (although donates 100% to the left); MSNBC tilts so far left their airplanes go in circles. NBC/CBS/ABC are all leftist. So when you read a report on these stations, you take it with a grain of salt.
Back in the olden days, Uncle Walter was seen as dispassionate and fair. Of course he wasn't -- he had an agenda, too. But now, we don't think the media is fair or balanced. It's slanted with a view.
"Fair interpretation?"
Not so much.
He's just being a partisan 2 weeks out from the election. Kristol is also embarrassed for having pushed Palin so hard and for having so badly screwed up the election for McCain and the Republicans.
So, of course, he wants to make the other Veep candidate look good.
Joltin' Joe is preparing America for successful reversal of America's strength and policies.
But don't worry - even if you disagree with him and Bambi, their hearts are in the right place, and they're doing the right thing, even if we're too stupid to understand.
"And he's going to need help . . . to stand with him. Because it's not going to be apparent initially; it's not going to be apparent that we're right."
Peter Pan turns to the audience and says, ""Do you believe in fairies? … If you believe, clap your hands; don't let Tink die."
I'm not sure how you get to where I think we should go in terms of the government.
I really do not trust the government to decide these issues either, but how can we continue to allow these things to go on on our airwaves. CBS is licensed by us, and they need to behave in that manner. If they are not afraid of the repercussions of pushing falsehoods they will continue. The Dan Rather story really illustrates just how low we have gone, Rather being fired is not the solution I am looking for.
Should we all have to weed through everything to find facts? And how many people do that?
"This is why Israel will almost certainly launch against Iran in the period between Obama's election and the time he takes office."
That is on the money. Count on it.
They know that Obama will hang them out to dry.
Anyway, here's an interesting picture of Obama's maternal grandparents.
He sure looks a lot like grandpa!
"Sorry about that bus, grandma! See ya!"
AJ Lynch said...
Integrity:
Are you being truly serious when you say you "would legislate Fox and Murdoch out of existence"?
Jeez Republicans are such boy scouts.
Of course he's serious. Leftwing asshats like him believe the public consists of either barbarians or children who are incapable of making informed decisions and must have enlightened beings such as "integrity" (ahahahah!!) step in and manage their affairs for their own good. That's the premise of the collectivist left and their top down Big Brother command and control agenda.
Trying to fight the left like good sporting Republicans is like entering a lion's den armed with only your farts.
I think that yes, you as a citizen should "wade through" the information to find the facts. Otherwise you are trusting the government to wade through the facts.
Who is more likely to suppress inconvenient facts, the networks or the government? Hint: there are many networks; there is only one government.
This is shades of the "Fairness Doctrine."
I'm against it in toto, in principle, and in dubitably.
Integrity -
I do hope you realize that when you read headlines on FoxNews.com, there is no use of "public airwaves" or any other licensed electromagnetic spectrum taking place.
Integrity - as one who got a tad misrepresented by the media once I have no expectation that the headline and the story will marry up in a logical manner.
But the rub is just who gets to decide what constitutes "the truth"? For me I think there are some small steps that could be legislated to enhance the transparency of press bias. Like politicians, national press corp should have to publish their party affiliation, financial records to show conflicts of interests, and whether they have served in an administration. Also, I'd outlaw a public news org from making political endorsements. Pastors can't, why should the news?
Journalists have forgotten they are suppose to be impartial. They need to adopt a professional code the same as US military regarding politicing (as in be fiercely neutrality in public). Letting government decide what is and isn't truth is road to ruin...
Should we all have to weed through everything to find facts?
Yes, we should. The major media outlets are paying a price for their biases, errors, and lies. People used to believe them, and now nobody does. People used to pay attention to them, and now, not so much. Now, responsible people don't outsource truth-seeking to such unreliable agents. Each of us is responsible for seeking out trustworthy sources of information and, where possible, for reviewing original writings or video, in order to learn what's going on around us. I'm not unhappy about that.
AL, you're right, he does look a lot like his grandfather.
"the poll from France which says they favor Obama by 63%"
While I think Sarkozy is the best leader the French have had for quite some time, if they want to replace him with Obama that's quite alright with me!
No way to check whether he's got a damaged brain: Chicago Tribune: No brain scans in released Biden medical records.
Oh well
PJ said...
Should we all have to weed through everything to find facts?
Yes, we should. The major media outlets are paying a price for their biases, errors, and lies. People used to believe them, and now nobody does. People used to pay attention to them, and now, not so much. Now, responsible people don't outsource truth-seeking to such unreliable agents. Each of us is responsible for seeking out trustworthy sources of information and, where possible, for reviewing original writings or video, in order to learn what's going on around us. I'm not unhappy about that.
Do you know how many different sources I have to read in order to discern the facts on any given matter? Ridiculous.
So it's better to have a bunch of frauds selling their P.O.V. devoid of facts than it is to try to create an environment where people can trust the information they are given?
Many members of my family are computer illiterate. Whatever they see on telly is what they believe, whether right or left. This is just wrong in my opinion. If you don't have the resources to verify what you are being told than there must be other safeguards protecting the viewer.
The Fairness Doctrine does not cover any of the ideas we are talking about. I'm talking about facts in general, not just politics.
Paul:
If they try stuff like Integrity wants, they will regret it cause I am anything but a boy scout.
The oddest thing in Biden's statement, aside from the Augean mettle loin girding, is:
"It's not gonna be apparent initially, it's not gonna be apparent that we're right."
What is he referring to? Is it that Sen. Obama has told him how he's going to respond under a certain circumstance?
If I were Israel and I thought that Obama were going to win, I'd attack now. Why tolerate the surety of four years with Obama, if a strike now would precipitate Iranian action against the U.S., which might have the effect of making McCain looked seasoned, thus helping him win election. A lot of 'ifs' there.
Incidentally, there are about 20-30 warships from the US, UK, India, France, Denmark, etc massing off the Somalian coast. Killing pirates is one of those things that everyone is in favor of.
Rrrr.
Why do you want to give up your independent thought and inquiry to a government resource?
How would you trust it?
Esau probably thought the pottage was a good exchange, too, but look how that turned out.
You have a great gift and responsibility in America to find out the truth. That your family is computer illiterate is too bad, but are they newspaper and TV illiterate, too? Do they lack cable, access to libraries, coffee shops, and family get-togethers?
I'm really surprised at how easily you'd give up your freedom of thought because you're annoyed by the demands freedom makes on you.
If you want to be a serf, go ahead, but don't expect me to join you willingly.
What if Biden isn't wrong and didn't misspeak?
The White House includes both McCain and Obama and their running mates in the daily presidential briefing called the National Intelligence Estimate. This practice has been in effect for at least the last two elections.
Maybe Biden knows that their is a substantial risk of a 'major event' within the next 12 months. And maybe Biden knows in general terms Obama's likely response. And that response will either anger the left because of its strength, or anger the right because of its weakness.
Consider that Biden's error was telling the truth when he should have kept mum. It's possible.
Yep, Good thing Obama bypassed HRC for a 'more qualified' candidate.
Sofa King said...
Integrity -
I do hope you realize that when you read headlines on FoxNews.com, there is no use of "public airwaves" or any other licensed electromagnetic spectrum taking place.
I do, but their credibility is primarily derived from the granting of the broadcast license. Without the license nobody would go to their site. So should MSNBC be able to put anything they want on their website without regard for the license they have been granted?
Or maybe Biden knows that the Obama operatives who have met with Hamas have indicated a willingness to sacrifice Israel in exchange for a Chambers-esque promise of peace with the U.S.
Chamberlain-esque, not Chambers-esque.
"AL, you're right, he does look a lot like his grandfather."
What are you implying by that statement? That his grandfather is in fact his father? Such baroque speculation is only permissible for the Republican ticket. Please recheck your talking points.
Yes, MSNBC should be allowed to say pretty much anything they want. If they break the law, then go after them.
I'd like to see a more rigorous libel law so that a newspaper that quotes someone and later is shown to have mangled the quote can be then taken to court, but Sullivan seems to say this: "The Court held that the First Amendment protects the publication of all statements, even false ones, about the conduct of public officials except when statements are made with actual malice (with knowledge that they are false or in reckless disregard of their truth or falsity)." (New York Times v. Sullivan
Bush and Cheney have less than 100 days till they turn the keys over. If US isn't attacked in this period the #1 achievement in Bush's legacy is "not one more 9/11on our watch". Then the counter gets reset to zero for the next admin. If another attack happens on US soil, especially a successful one, then there will be a huge storm. And OBambi will either come out with gun's a blazing or we're gonna suck it up and his popularity evaporates to single digits. And that will have some serious political fallout.
We (us and the bad guys) all know McCain and Palin will drop the hammer. Go big and go to their home! Joe's just been a little slow to realize he's actually lashed to the Obama mast and its sailing in dangerous waters. Always some jhidist looking for his virgins...
Put another way, Joe now realizes that they won't have Bush to kick around anymore.
Oh, I think that Bambi will be quick to blame everything on Bush, no matter the date.
BDS is post-presidential, you know.
"Gird your loins!"
It means put your pants on in Bible talk.
No, it means prepare for battle in the biblical context.
And one critical part of preparation for hand-to-hand combat is shielding vulnerable body parts, if possible.
**************************
Duscany said...
I think Biden is saying, if Israel bombs Iran, we may decide not to join in, in which case Obama will be pounded so hard and so long in certain circles, including much of the media, that he will only wish he had an approval rating as high as George Bush's.
Such an assumption assumes that an Israeli attack on Iran would be "surgical, successful" with no consequences.
But there would be consequences to an Israeli sneak attack. Global condemnation, missiles flying, and a Global Depression as all oil from the Gulf is shutoff by Iranian missile threat and mines.
If the US allows Israel to cross Iraqi air space, they are complicit and would be seen as such. The Russians, as part of the reason for invading Georgia, booted out the Israelis prepping Georgian airfields for a possible strike. (something not widely reported).
There would be no press condemnation of the US for not joining in such a sneak attack - but at the consequences of the global oil crisis as economies shut down on no oil - and American & NATO casualties which could be in many thousands to tens of thousands when they were forced to engage Iran militarily and reopen the Gulf.
There is also the strong possibility of OPEC launching a "sympathy" oil embargo in response to an Israeli sneak attack at Israel and anyone who joins them, or who attempts to "break" the Embargo by sending their own scarce oil to the Israelis.
Such an Israeli strike likely would also trigger a wider regional conflict as Hamas and Hez got a green light to attack Israel with missiles, possibility of Syria joining in War.
For those reasons, under George Bush II, the policy is now that Israel gets no more new JDAMs, no refueling tankers, and is denied American help in crossing Iraqi airspace. (Israel asked, the Americans told them to ask Malaki and the sovereign Iraqi Gov't for permission instead - according to Ha'aretz media in Tel Aviv)
Maybe that is what Biden had in mind - Israel would test a new Obama Presidency by launching pre-emptive war. Fortunately for Obama, this is a situation that has been war-gamed to death, so his decisions would be easy, assuming he did not make America complicit.
1. Authorize the US to clear Iran's military from the Gulf and de-mine, demand full assistance from NATO, Russia.
2. Tap the Strategic Petroleum Reserve for military, farmers, emergency medical/law enforcement people, vital industry and services only. No gas relief at the pump.
3. Declare National Emergency. Rationing.
4. Reopening the Gulf would take 2-3 months assuming Iran was fully committed to keeping it shut down.
5. Work with other nations on what consequences Israel must pay.
In the fall-out from a sneak attack, the critiques of some Christian Zionists and actual Zionists to "stand square behind Israel and never 2nd-guess what they want to do" would be drowned out, IMO.
What must be done under an Obama Presidency is get nations, other than Israel and Iran, on the same page. Then tell those two what is acceptable, and what is not. And consequences for crossing the line..
Incidentally, there are about 20-30 warships from the US, UK, India, France, Denmark, etc massing off the Somalian coast. Killing pirates is one of those things that everyone is in favor of.
Unfortunately, infestions of pirates off Somalia won't be solved by a few ships steaming off the coast. The payday for a score is far to vast to keep the fishermen from turning pirate. say 2 million dollars spread across a boss and 20 pirates?
It will take relearning the lessons of the 18th, and 19th centuries. Use satelite video in rewind mode to track the speed boats back to a village. Send Marines in and burn villages and burn boats.
Horrible PR, but that is what it takes to convince fishermen that the risk is not work the big score.
integrity said...
The military poll is a fraud. It's reader's responses, not a poll.
Fox and Murdoch are the biggest frauds. I would legislate their fraud right out of existence. Shocking that those pieces of garbage would even attempt it, and now look-you have too.
I don't doubt it for a second - which is why liberal fascists like you and Obama scare me so much.
I believe at some point we the people must force all media that have access to public airwaves to present facts or something vaguely resembling them. You as a repub have seen them lie about your people many times, should that be allowed on public airwaves? I don't think so
Sure media lies and distortion piss me off - and 90% of it is from the left (Fox vs NBC,c CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, CW, PBS..) but how do you regulate this stuff when the country is pretty much divided on what the truth is? Who decides - the party in power obviously!
I would agree that the NY Times v. Sullivan case gives too much protection to media from civil liability for defamation - maybe a law to remedy that would be useful (or would that require a constitutional amendment)?
Integrity -
Fox News is a cable channel. You don't need a broadcast license to transmit on cable either. That also does not involve the use of licensed electromagnetic spectrum.
The world tested John Kennedy with the Bay of Pigs invasion, whose failure made JFK look like a weakling to Khrushchev among others, and helped precipitate the Cuban Missile Crisis. Biden is saying we're not going to launch any doomed invasion.
"...not going to launch any doomed invasion."
Exactly how would Bambi know this, that an invasion is doomed? Can he see the future?
I'm pretty sure that most wars are started or defended by people who think they'll win, or who think that even if they're doomed, it's worth fighting. Sparta springs to mind, for example.
What Joe is saying is this: "I have no idea what I'm blathering about, but I'm pretty sure my eyelifts and hair plugs are very natural-looking."
This is a bit hard to fathom. Obama's VP is essentially saying that Obama is going to be challenged shortly after he takes office, and he will fail the test. And, somehow a lot of people are still willing to vote for those guys.
Does anyone, even Barack and Joe, think that a president McCain would be challenged in nearly the same way? Do they truly believe that very many would try the mettle of the guy who sat on the Enterprise flight deck with nuclear weapons aimed at Cuba, almost died on the fiery flight deck of the Forrestal, caught the next carrier back to Vietnam, only to be shot down over Hanoi, etc., and spent the rest of the war being tortured as a POW? The son of the guy who ordered the bombing of Hanoi when that son was being held as a POW? The grandson of the guy who won the Battle of Leyte Gulf by launching his planes almost beyond their range?
What I can't figure out, is why anyone would vote for Obama, realizing that he is likely to be much more seriously challenged than McCain by foreign forces, and is much more likely to fail such a challenge.
I am guessing that Vladimir Putin will be the first person to test Obama should Obama become president. I expect the Russians to push harder on their former satellite republics. I also expect the Iranians to push harder on their nuclear development. The test won't come from AQ. It will come from some nuclear armed powers. I have a feeling there are some unfriendly people out there who will be looking forward to an Obama presidency and seeing just how much steel he has in his spine. So far he hasnt demonstrated much.
"The quote I heard (audio) had him say something about Obama having steel in his spine.
He said it very forcefully, too."
Perhaps those unreleased medical records contain information about a serious car accident in Barry's past, then?
"Steel in the spine" is an idiotic, if overused, term. Especially from a poseur squish like Biden; especially when describing an effete pantywaist like Obama.
Roger J. said...
I am guessing that Vladimir Putin will be the first person to test Obama should Obama become president. I expect the Russians to push harder on their former satellite republics.
God, if you are the Ukraine, you have got to be rooting for McCain. If Obama is elected you have about 5 days of freedom left.
Integrity-
The poll was conducted at the bequest of The Military Times-that is a paper owned by Gannet Inc. which also happens to own USA Today.
I linked to FOX because they happen to be about the only ones covering the result.
All things being equal-let's assume that both polls are crap.
Then what is the difference?
The difference is the media's presentation of the information.
The "global" polls and "global" electoral college has been covered by various media for months now-the military poll well-hardly matters to the press right?
Why-because it wouldn't fit the media and Democratic narrative-that the military needs rescued by those that are wiser than them.
veni vidi vici said...
"The quote I heard (audio) had him say something about Obama having steel in his spine.
He said it very forcefully, too."
Perhaps those unreleased medical records contain information about a serious car accident in Barry's past, then?
"Steel in the spine" is an idiotic, if overused, term. Especially from a poseur squish like Biden; especially when describing an effete pantywaist like Obama.
Swish, effete. You've just covered about 85% of the men(including, maybe especially married men) in Los Angeles. It may even be an American epidemic.
How have you survived here in Los Angeles with those attitudes? What, do all the effetes you deal with pretend they aren't?
That's funny. A new Wall St Journal poll finds that Palin is the Number One doubt voters have in McCain.
More news on Palin emerges. She's had the taxpayers pay for her kids' travel. Thanks taxpayers!
Politico reports the RNC has spent over $150,000 "to clothe and accessorize vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin and her family since her surprise pick by John McCain in late August."
That's some Joe Sixpack, I'll tell ya.
Isn't that the lifestyle of thje elites?
Just askin!
Politico reports the RNC has spent over $150,000 "to clothe and accessorize vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin and her family since her surprise pick by John McCain in late August."
That's some Joe Sixpack, I'll tell ya.
Isn't that the lifestyle of thje elites?
No, that's what you have to do when you move a non-elite, who doesn't own elite clothes, into elite circles.
Please do not confuse Alphaliberal with facts. It gets him agitated.
Oh my goodness! Campaign funds used to pay for... campaign costs! What will those eeeevil Republicans think of next!
God, if you are the Ukraine, you have got to be rooting for McCain. If Obama is elected you have about 5 days of freedom left.
The Bush-termed "noble democratic freedom-lover" of the Orange, Purple..whatever, Revolution that happened promptly went reckless and began harsh measures against ethnic Russians in Ukraine. Russians who are about 1/3rd of the population, mostly to the East and on Crimea - where the people dislike Ukrainian rule and are very, very committed to Russian rule and a home for the Black Sea Fleet and all the military retirees..
The Russian language has been outlawed from schools, Russians removed from business and government posts.
Ukraine has been in the Russian sphere of interest for 250 years. We have an interest in autonomy for Ukrainians - but a strong interest in Ukraine ending its provocations against ethnic Russians.
And the last thing we want is for NATO, foolishly committed, to fight battles against the Russians on the same soil and in the same spots the Red Army fought the Nazis and Ukrainian turncoats.
The American Empire, such that it was, is on the wane and overcommitted as is. Meddle in Ukraine? Well, if we do you can be pretty sure that France, Italy, and Germany will not be helping in any significant way - US intervention.
Poland or the Baltics are a different case. They have a long tradition of being in the Western, not Russian sphere.
Barack's planning something.
Something deeply unpopular.
Something anathema to most Americans. Something conservatives will hate. Something moderates will reject. Something so leftist, it will even make liberals queasy.
What is he planning?
Get a grip. The crisis will be economic
Sure some tinhorn will try something. That always happens but the real bad news will be here and it will be severe.
If some of you blockheads remember, this country gave GWB all the help it could after 911. It was non-partisan and he needed everything from us to get this country through it and recover. That he pissed it away is another story.
Biden said the same. We will all need to help Obama through the mess left in the wake of this disaster of a presidency and he said nothing more.
Kristol is Kristol...hard to tell if he is using the NYT which you all hate by the way as a pulpit or a way to prepare for yet another segment on Faux Noise.
Remember all that leftwing angst over the trampling of rights by GWB? Intrusion into rights of citizens. Unitary Presidency?
Well now the roles are gonna reverse. The Dems will find out how wonderful it is and right will come unhinged.
Remember also that Obama was a uniter, a healer? He's gonna bring us all together. It won't be politics as usual. Reality hits in just a couple of months. Right now, based upon campaign, Obama is gonna teach GWB that he had way, way too light a touch in handling the little people. He has a mission and dissent will not be tolerated.
Oh my goodness! Campaign funds used to pay for... campaign costs! What will those eeeevil Republicans think of next!
Using campaign contributions on clothing is not permitted under the Federal Election Commission's implementation of 2 U.S.C. 439a(b)(2)(B)
Daryl: Barack's planning something.
Maybe he's planning on doing something GWB never dreamed of doing: governing as a conservative.
It worked out pretty good for Clinton, once he got the hang of it.
AJ Lynch;
I'm glad to hear it. I'm with you...I will shed blood before I let anyone put a ring through my nose, even a velvet one.
But why on Earth would you think that the left cares about free speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, or any other of the negative rights embodied in the American system of government? They are the heirs of the French Revolution and Rousseau's principal of the general will, and as such are not interested in the individual or individual rights which are simply obstacles to the goals of social justice.
No, that's what you have to do when you move a non-elite, who doesn't own elite clothes, into elite circles.
Maverick Elites! A team of 'em! Changing Washington!
I wouldn't try too hard to find some sort of hidden meaning here. This is Joe Biden talking afterall, and he has been known to shoot from the lip. His blowhard storytelling is a known fact. Somebody from the Obama camp will tell him to STFU, and you'll not hear about him for a while.
Drill SGT,
"Send Marines in and burn villages and burn boats.
Horrible PR..."
Only because you stop too soon. Just have the Marines hang around the sites for a while, burn a few news crews, and--bingo--problem solved!
</modest_proposal>
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