June 3, 2008

Let's talk about potential VP candidate Sarah Palin.

1. Check out the picture that represents her in her Wikipedia article:



Fur!

2. "[S]he ... is a rabid gun advocate. She’s an edgy conservative who could help get those vital cross-over and independent votes." Rabid? Edgy? With a gun? Sounds dangerous.... Dangerous women!

3. Alaska! With Hawaii represented by Barack Obama, it would be cool to give the other latecomer state some respect at this time. It's always troubled me that Hawaii's been so far off and disconnected from the rest of the United States, and it's good that there's another disconnected state to keep it company. (You know when I was a kid in the 1950s, I heard discussion of Alaska becoming a state, and when someone said "I hear Hawaii is coming in too," I thought the islands were somehow floating over and would connect to the west coast.) Alaska's important too: oil-related. We're going to be talking about gas prices, and having the governor of Alaska will resonate.

4. John McCain is going to try to get the disappointed Hillary supporters to come over to his side, and choosing a woman may have a big effect.

5. She's very pro-life. And she just had a child with Down Syndrome. She knew he had Down Syndrome, yet she didn't abort him. Some people will give her strong credit for that. Some — like me — will say: Well, of course, what else could she do?! Show me someone who supports abortion rights but chooses not to abort a child with Down Syndrome and I'll be impressed.

6. She has 5 children now. That's impressive. The new one is named Trig. The others are not named after math class, but are named rather oddly, rather hippie-style: Track, Bristol, Willow, and Piper. Boys or girls? Only Track is a boy. And he's in the Army. [CLARIFICATION: I know Trig is also a boy, as indicated under point #5. I meant of the others, the 4 names listed here as odd and "hippie-style."]

7. Is she prepared to be President? Clearly, I haven't answered that question here!

ADDED: The photo is by Ryan McFarland, and here's his blog post showing the whole context of the picture -- a Vikings and Valkyries pageant of some sort. Note that the fir is some less-than-serious piece on loan for the occasion.

193 comments:

SteveR said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
rhhardin said...

I have the perfect campaign button

Harass sensuousness, Sarah

a palindrome.

Roman said...

VP? If I were not so old, and she not taken, I'd marry her!!!

rhhardin said...

It's not up there with Amabo Obama but you take what you can get in the button wars.

john said...

Five kids? I thought she was only about 30. Wow.

The photo reveals another little known fact about Gov Palin: still expressing after those kids, she also volunteers to nurse orphan minks.

SteveR said...

Is she prepared to be President?

I doubt she's been thinking about it as long as Sen Obama, as if that qualifies as preparation. I'm thinkind she's a long shot at this point, but someone to keep an eye on.

MadisonMan said...

Only Track is a boy.

Trig is also a boy.

George said...

The Clintons' supporters would love that.

Really bring the party together!

vet66 said...

My kind of woman. Knows what she wants and is not afraid to get it. I don't know what kind of weapon she enjoys but I can bet it is of sufficient caliber to qualify as politically incorrect.

No wussy metro/retrosexual here. We need more like her.

vet66 said...

One more observation; I love her fur!

Ann Althouse said...

Madison Man: I meant out of that second set of names. I list Trig as a son at an earlier point. I was trying to write that so it wasn't confusing (and apparently failed).

john said...

But how Alaskan is she?

Can/does she drink a keg of whisky?

Has/will she kill a polar bear?

Did/could she make love to a ....

Nevermind.

Bob said...

She's my own personal choice for McCain's running mate, but she might not bring enough to the table, since Alaska is a reliably red state. She definitely might bring some female voters in, but McCain might wish to pick someone from a battleground state that might be able to turn his state red for this election cycle.

Of course, I'm still betting that McCain will pick his sycophant Lindsey Graham; if he does, he'll lose the election.

Simon said...

All of what's in the post, plus, she has far more relevant experience than Obama - or than John McCain, for that matter. I worry that now might not be her time, that she has much left to do in Alaska, and would be a stronger candidate in 2012. But in the end, I am of the view that we need a strong contender for veep now - and if not Palin, who? Romney? Please.

I also think Goldberg was right about what she could represent, to an extent: I think it's fair to say that there are some women who would like to see a female President in their lifetimes, and part of the anger over Hillary's treatment is that if she isn't the first female President, the possibility vanishes for a generation. Who else is there? Well, if the Vice-President is female (and a very able, thoroughly modern "you can have it all" one at that, by all reports), and the President is thinking seriously of serving only one term, the possibility remains on the table.

I'm not 100% sold on Palin as a candidate in '08. Still: I'm reminded, as I often have been in the last two years when names have been floated, of Thomas Brackett Reed. The second truly great Speaker of the House was asked if his party would nominate him for President, and the ever-caustic Reed replied that "they could do much worse, and I suspect they probably will."

SteveR said...

Gosh Bob, Lindsey Graham!?, what a buzzkill. He'd deserve to lose.

The Drill SGT said...

I don't think her bringing Alaska is an issue. She might be useful in peeling off some Female Reagan Dems. She looks like an independent woman (Beauty queen and star athlete). Husband is a fisherman. Real people.

peter hoh said...

I think Obama should pick Webb, but that will further alienate older feminists, which McCain could pick up by choosing Palin.

If Obama is thinking about picking one of the female governors frequently mentioned, Janet Napolitano of Arizona or Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas, he ought to do it before McCain announces that he's picking Palin.

If both McCain and Obama pick female VPs, the second one will look like he's pandering.

And if Obama decides to pick Webb anyway, well, more power to him.

Roger J. said...

Interesting thought: what if MCain picks Jim Webb? I would love that display of bipartisanship.

chuck b. said...

Hawaii feels like my backyard. I feel more connected to Hawaii than any state east of California (if there are any).

Hoosier Daddy said...

Rabid? Edgy? With a gun? Sounds dangerous.... Dangerous women!

Sounds like my kind of lady.

peter hoh said...

If McCain picks Webb? Wow. That would be a bold move. As would picking Christine Todd Whitman.

UWS guy said...

Why would McCain think that gun-control-pro-choice women would vote for a pro-gun-abortion-control women?

Michelle Malkin isn't going to pull the lever for Mrs. Clinton any more than Gloria Steinem is going to campaign for Sara Palin.

The Drill SGT said...

UWS guy said...
Why would McCain think that gun-control-pro-choice women would vote for a pro-gun-abortion-control women?


Oh, maybe a bunch of Reagan dems, blue collar women, Catholics, bitterly clinging to their guns and religion?

Would sell well in say:

- Iowa
- Mich
- Minn
- Wisc
- Penn
- Ohio
- WV
- VA
- NM
- Nv

all battleground areas where Palin would sell well IMHO

where wearing fur, your State's product is understandable

The Drill SGT said...

Oh,

and what would the fact that both the GOP President and VP candidates have "skin in the game" with regard to the war, both having "Blue stars" in their windows

Trooper York said...

"Of course, I'm still betting that McCain will pick his sycophant Lindsey Graham'

He would be better off picking Lindsey Lohan, if all the guys that banged her vote for them they will carry California.

Paul Zrimsek said...

Hawaii is floating over to connect to the West Coast. I believe it's supposed to hit Alaska in about 60 million years. Given how fast the news cycle turns nowadays, I think we can all agree that this is a typical distraction from Obama's new politics of hope and change.

bearbee said...

Husband and all the boy's names begin with 'T'

Hubby Todd Palin's grandma was Yup'ik .
He is an oil guy. That will set off the environmentalists.

Bird rock said...

This may sound incredibly shallow but she's going to need a complete makeover before she's ready for the big time. Apparently many men find her attractive (and there's that beauty queen background even though small-town beauty queens aren't always all that, appearance-wise) but her glasses, hairstyle, makeup, and clothes are almost comically dowdy and outdated. They age her at least 10 years and she's in danger of coming off almost as clueless re: her appearance as Katharine Harris was, albeit in a very different way. I think she would become a figure of fun for the MSM. More important, I think that many suburban women who might want to vote for a woman this year would be turned off by her style which would make her hard to relate to. She certainly shouldn't try to look like one of the SATC stars or a Vogue fashionista but she should try to look at least as put together as Hillary or Nancy Pelosi.

Zeb Quinn said...

I am of the view that we need a strong contender for veep now - and if not Palin, who? Romney? Please.

The name I'm hearing lately is Frank Keating.

Original Mike said...

Apparently many men find her attractive...

Apparently?????

Anyone who wouldn't vote for her because of the fur was voting for Obama anyways.

Simon said...

Bird rock said...
"[S]he's going to need a complete makeover before she's ready for the big time. Apparently many men find her attractive ... but her glasses, hairstyle, makeup, and clothes are almost comically dowdy and outdated."

I don't think that's warrantlessly shallow, but I do think it's inaccurate. Or at least, a matter of opinion. Quite aside from the comparison to Harris being unkind (to say nothing of inaccurate; Harris' problems were of a quite different kind), I think Palin looks just fine, and very appealing. It isn't a qualification, but it doesn't hurt.

Trooper York said...

"Anyone who wouldn't vote for her because of the fur was voting for Obama anyways."

Seriously, have you seen Hillary's legs lately. Talk about fur. That's why she does the pantsuit thing.

Original Mike said...

It would be interesting to see a Palin vs. Hillary! VP matchup.

In one corner we have:

i) Governor Frank Murkowski appointed Palin to serve as ethics commissioner on the state's Oil and Gas Conservation Commission which she served on during 2003–2004, but later resigned, in protest over what she perceived to be the "lack of ethics" of fellow Alaskan Republican leaders.

ii) ...and also won the title of Miss Congeniality.

and in the other corner we have

i) Hillary!

TitusSheBop said...

I am curious what she does with her fur down below.

Trooper York said...

Sarah Palin is attractive to straight guys. If only gay guys were voting they would pick Sarah Jessica Horseface.

Bird rock said...

My comment about her appearance had absolutely nothing to do with her wearing fur. In fact, I think the picture used here is one of the better ones I've seen of her. Nor was I trying to say that she's similar in any way to Katharine Harris except that they both exhibit a certain cluelessness about how their appearance resonates with others. Of course it's all a matter of opinion but I just don't think she looks modern or professional. YMMV. I'd love to hear Robin Givhan's take on her style. And I'd love to see Stacey and Clinton of What Not To Wear get their hands on her.

Whether or not she's going to be McCain's veep, she, along with Bobby Jindal, is considered one of the party's rising stars and I'm sure they both will be prominently featured at the convention. The Repubs will want to showcase two young stars who not coincidentally just happen to be a minority and a woman. All I'm saying is that I think she needs to modernise a bit before she hits the lower 48. A good haircut, more flattering glasses, and a nice suit that fits well - that's all it would take.

knoxwhirled said...

watch McCain pick Hillary

TitusSheBop said...

Also, if she has just had a baby I would be interested in seeing her whip out a tit and breast feed on the campaign stump.

I think this would make for a powerful statement-one of which both men and women could appreciate.

TitusSheBop said...

I love Sarah Jessica Parker-she's amazing.

howzerdo said...

While it may be true that Pelosi was well put together in the past, now she looks like she had her face removed. Why do people think that level of plastic surgery is an improvement? I could do without Palin's fur (I hate it, actually), but it isn't a deal breaker. (At least Palin can go to the coat check.) There is nothing else especially odd about her appearance.

TitusSheBop said...

Also, if she just had a baby her tits should be nice and full and large which would be something pleasant to look at on the campaign trail.

I love large tits full of milk.

knoxwhirled said...

One more observation; I love her fur!

Oh, and Senator, just one more thing: love your suit...

Original Mike said...

Personally, Bird Rock, I like my VP candidates to be a bit "dowdy" (a.k.a. serious), but then I'm just a shallow guy.

Simon said...

Bird rock said...
"Nor was I trying to say that she's similar in any way to Katharine Harris except that they both exhibit a certain cluelessness about how their appearance resonates with others."

How do you square this supposed "cluelessness about how their appearance resonates with others" with the apparent reality that her appearence responates pretty well with heterosexual men?

"A good haircut, more flattering glasses, and a nice suit that fits well - that's all it would take.

Compare, e.g., http://terryfrank.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/pict132.jpg with http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/original/1016tinafey.jpg. Nerd chic, dressed a more conservatively - shocker, a conservative woman dressing conservatively - than Fey's occaisional departures into fashion. Fashion, of course, is what people with more money than sense use as substitutes for judgment and taste, and, I have to tell you, the people on What Not to Wear are very fashionable. Her hair's fine, although I've seen her wearing a couple of styles, both of which suit her. Her glasses are fine, although I've seen her in some square, rimless glasses in some pictures which I agree are ugly, but that's personal taste (so far as I know, ugly glasses are chic at the moment anyway), and I've not seen her in ill-fitting clothes.

Cedarford said...

Simon said...
All of what's in the post, plus, she has far more relevant experience than Obama - or than John McCain, for that matter. I worry that now might not be her time, that she has much left to do in Alaska, and would be a stronger candidate in 2012. But in the end, I am of the view that we need a strong contender for veep now - and if not Palin, who? Romney? Please.


Palin's background is even thinner than "being 1st Lady and doing state teas makes me ready" or "two-year Senator" Obama. Journalist, beauty queen, mayor of a small town (Wasilia, pop 2800), two years as Gov.

Why this year is executive experience so unimportant? Has Black Messiah set the experience and quals bar so low that almost ANYONE is qualified to be either BO or McCain's VP as long as identity politics and affirmative action expectations are satisfied?

***********

Have we gotten to the point in affirmative action bingo and ID politics of biography rather than ability where the "ideal" President or VP would be 1-year mayor Fatima Farooki of a small town outside Dearborn??

"She is a mixture of Arab and Black. Raised Muslim but converted to Christian Fundamentalism and now to Wicca. She ice skates, plays the piano, and is very smart, though most things she touches are disasters. Lesbian, crippled by a withered right hand and a breast cancer survivor - Fatima is quite photogenic and gives soaring speeches where she says nothing substantive but inspires others to say that they have been "farooked" into being her devoted minions.

Her lover is a Jewish woman said devoted to raising taxes via lawsuits to "help the little children".
A single mom, who was once homeless and on welfare, Ms. Farooki tops off her stunning entitlement to the Presidency by noting that while she never served in the military, she has a son by a previous Muslim polygamous marriage that is a "hero" now fighting in Iraq - though she won't say on which side."

Chris Matthew cannot contain his enthusiasm - I have tingling up and down both legs and throbbing between them and I can barely contain myself. Fatima pushes all my buttons!! Who on the whole planet could not vote for a person who checks every box on the affirmative action checklist!! Who has such a heartwarming, inspiring biography. What a Commander in Chief she would make!

Matthews, as other journalists nodded, also said even evil white men with no affirmative action bonus points would be morally obligated to vote for Fatima if they wished to expatiate the awful guilt of their kind...

bearbee said...

The name I'm hearing lately is Frank Keating.

Too much a reminder of Frank Keating of S&L scandal, don'cha think?

Official Portrait looks ok to me. Some might cut her some slack on her appearance with 5 kids and all.

Yes, the fur is awful.

Speaking of Vogue...

peter hoh said...

Simon, we may not agree on much, but I agree that Ms. Palin is a good looking woman, and I don't much mind the slightly dowdy glasses and subdued style.

And count me in as one who regards Tina Fey to be one of the sexiest women on TV.

Sarah Jessica Parker? Whatever. In my opinion, Kristin Davis is the most attractive of the SATC actresses.

Simon said...

Cedarford said...
"Palin's background is even thinner than 'being 1st Lady and doing state teas makes me ready' or 'two-year Senator" Obama. Journalist, beauty queen, mayor of a small town (Wasilia, pop 2800), two years as Gov."

She has been the Chief Executive of a State for two and a half years, as compared to John McCain and Barack Obama who have zero years, zero months, zero weeks and zero days of executive experience between them. You can certainly bring other forms of experience to the table, but actually running a government operation - and running it successfully - is, if not a trump card, then certainly a strong place whence to start.

TitusSheBop said...

Now if Sarah Jessica Parker ran for VP that would be fabulous.

TitusSheBop said...

How come straighties don't like Sarah Jessica Parker?

She's got a rockin body, nice tits, great hair.

I think her face is fascinating to look at. Very distinctive, original and unusual. I can't take my eyes off her.

Ruth Anne Adams said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Kirby Olson said...

The Wikipedia article listed her religion as "Protestant."

Anybody got any specifics?

Ann Althouse said...

SJP wore a big fur coat in the SATC movie. So did Kim Catrrall (who was attacked by very unattractive anti-fur activists).

Simon said...

TitusSheBop said...
"How come straighties don't like Sarah Jessica Parker? She's got a rockin body, nice tits, great hair. I think her face is fascinating to look at. Very distinctive, original and unusual. I can't take my eyes off her."

Well, I can't talk for all "straighties," but for myself, I like smart, independent-minded women, and Parker comes across as a ditz-sheep crossbreed in interviews, not to mention being far too skinny below the neck and somewhere betwen bland and ugly above. While I agree that "distinctive ... and unusual" is appealing, I don't see her as being either, and in sum, there's just nothing about her that's appealing to me. It's as though she took the basic architectural elements of Jennifer Aniston's face and resolved to put them together in a less striking way.

former law student said...

A gun gal would get my vote. Reminds me that Dallas star Susan Howard was (is?) on the NRA Board of Directors.

Ralph said...

The Palin's named a daughter "Bristol", so either they've never seen Benny Hill, or they have and they're monsters. Still better than Rep. Heather Wilson's daughter Caitlin. Bleh. Apologies to anyone cursed by that name.

Trooper York said...

Sarah Jessica Parker is pure evil on both the outside and the inside. She is a major league beotch who has driven her husband to drink himself insensible in the bars of Times Square as I have personally witnessed on more than one occasion. She radiates a sense of entitlement and arrogance which she is not entitled to in any way shape or form. Her popularity in the gay community is due to the fact that she basically played a gay man as did her other three co-stars. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But her whole act sends a chill down the spine of any right thinking straight guy. If I was going to date any of the women in the mess of a movie it would be Jennifer Hudson who in my humble opinion is 10 times more desirable than that horsefaced twat. But hey, that's just my opinion. If you want to slice your dick off on that bony equine skank, knock yourself out.

John Stodder said...

Sort of off topic, but I liked the Michael Chabon novel "The Yiddish Policemen's Union." It's a Chandleresque mystery set in a counterfactual version of Sitka, Alaska, which in his alternate history was set up during WWII as a Jewish settlement. The novel is set in 2007 as the territory is about to revert to Alaskan control and most of the several million Jews are about to be evicted.

Like most mysteries these days, the underlying secret is a paranoid left-wing fantasy about the dastardly right wing, but it's not pushed too hard, and it's actually kind of a funny, madcap idea. Mostly you get immersed in this brilliant writing about what would happen with such an unlikely clash of cultures in an environment dominated by snow, rain and muck. The best character is half-Jewish, half-Inuit.

Sarah Palin does not seem like any characters in this book. However, she seems like someone who came from the place it describes. The Coen brothers are doing the movie, which I'm sure will launch a wave of Alaskan chic (and revive interest in chess.)

John Stodder said...

Sarah Jessica Parker is pure evil on both the outside and the inside. She is a major league beotch who has driven her husband to drink himself insensible in the bars of Times Square as I have personally witnessed on more than one occasion.

Couldn't it have been Nathan Lane who drove Matthew Broderick to this low state?

I agree, though: SJP is the ugliest sex symbol since Madonna. Not a big Kim Cattrall fan, either. But the actress who plays Charlotte is genuinely beautiful, kind of like Jaclyn Smith except less remote. And Cynthia Nixon is a great actress, the only one of the four who makes any kind of emotional connection.

I've not seen the movie, though. I'm just going on HBO memories. I was not allowed to move a muscle when my wife was watching it.

Palladian said...

"Oh, and Senator, just one more thing: love your suit..."

lol, Dr. Lecter is sure getting a lot of play around here these days.

This one's for Titus: "You know what you look like to me, with your good bag and your cheap shoes? You look like a rube. A well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste. Good nutrition's given you some length of bone, but you're not more than one generation from poor white trash, are you..."

SJP is both spiritually and physically repulsive.

Oh, and Track Palin is adorable. Good on him for choosing to serve in the military.

Simon said...

Trooper York said...
"If I was going to date any of the women in the mess of a movie it would be Jennifer Hudson...."

Eh. She's like, what, twenty-something? Maybe when she grows up.

"Her popularity in the gay community is due to the fact that she basically played a gay man as did her other three co-stars."

You know, that comparison never ocurred to me, but now I come to think of it, that seems fair.

Trooper York said...

Dude, Jennifer Hudson is about two years younger than you. I know you have been spending a lot of time on the MILF Hunter, but broaden your horizons a little.

knoxwhirled said...

All you have to do is read a little of the self-congratulatory crap SJP spouted when she came out with her horrible, horrible Bitten line to know that she's a classless snob.

Kirby Olson said...

SJP's character is sexually exploitative and doesn't care about anything or anyone, ultimately.

Sarah Palin on the other hand is capable of being a real person: you can just see it in her face. She's a real person, capable of reciprocity and decency.

She's nice.

I think that counts.

SJP is just plain mean, on just about every occasion.

Trooper York said...

When archeologist uncovered the temple of Hayagriva in Thailand, they uncovered a statue of the horse faced god in the debris. They only identified by it’s resemblance to head shot of Sarah Jessica Parker which is hanging in a Greek Deli on the Upper West Side.

LarsPorsena said...

Titus:
"How come straighties don't like Sarah Jessica Parker?"

It's that big wart on her face.
When I look at her that's all I can see.

Revenant said...

From what little I've read about her she seems like she'd be a good VP or President.

Trooper York said...

Plus what’s up with that bullshit movie. I saw a teaser on HBO last night. Don’t they know any real black people? Jennifer Hudson is a powerhouse, a great singer and an Academy Award winner. And they basically have her playing a maid. WTF.

I mean I guess I can see where you could prefer Hillary over Obama because of some quasi experience bullshit or because you are raddled harridan feminist, but Sarah Jessica Horseface over Jennifer Hudson. Racist bastards.

Mort, I need you to weigh in on this buddy.

Bob said...

Sarah Jessica Parker is horse-faced, Trooper York has it exactly right; it's the same term I use of her myself. She has gorgeous eyes. She spends too much time exercising, to the point that she has that dreadful sinewy look that Madonna has.

Dye SJP's hair brown and her Jewish heritage shows through clearly.

Palladian said...

Who can forget Kim Cattrall's timeless work in "City Limits?

vbspurs said...

Wow, 69 comments already.

I have to tell you, since reading about Governor Palin, I've been very taken with her.

I wrote a blogpost a few days ago, Remembering Sarah Palin, wondering out loud what the American public would think, if McCain chooses her as running mate.

Honestly, I think it's win-win. Only Romney for the one-two punch, and Jindal, for the utter vision of such a choice, would be better received.

Please, let it be Palin, though.

(I'm communing with the Conservative gods, don't mind me)

Cheers,
Victoria

Palladian said...

Kim Kim Kim Kim Kim Cattrall! You were in "Mannequin," and that was a really good movie! Kim Cattrall, Kim Cattrall, Kim Cattrall, Kim Caaaattraaaaa-halll!

bearbee said...

Alaskan Governor Welcomes Baby Boy

Sarah’s waters broke while she was attending an energy conference in Texas, but she stayed and delivered her 30-minute speech before getting on a plane and returning home for the birth. Now that’s dedication!

His unusual first name is a Norse word meaning “true” and “brave victory.” The name is a tribute to Trig’s great uncle, a Bristol Bay fisherman. Paxson is a well known Alaskan snowmobiling area which Sarah and her husband Todd love.

Apparently Bristol was named after Bristol Bay, Alaska.

Trooper York said...

"She spends too much time exercising, to the point that she has that dreadful sinewy look that Madonna has."

Steroids?

Winstrol?

Lasix?

blake said...

Hey, Palladian:

According to MST3K legend, when Trace Beaulieu (the voice of Crow) and Juliewa (the info club poobah) ran off to L.A. together, they didn't have a place to stay.

So they crashed on Kim Cattrall's couch!

Say what you want about KC, but I think that's pretty cool.

blake said...

I'd like to see fur make a comeback. It feels nice, women look great in it.

The opposition--the red paint throwing kind--seem to really hate the wealth that it implies, more than (say) loving the vicious little weasels that are skinned.

blake said...

Oh, right, Palin.

Did someone say "unqualified"?

When did that start mattering again?

paul a'barge said...

Show me someone who supports abortion rights but chooses not to abort a child with Down Syndrome and I'll be impressed

May G-d forgive you. That has to be one of the most bitter, judgmental and insulting comments I've ever seen a person make.

Perhaps you can tell me just what right you have to demand that any parent of a child with Down Syndrome impress you.

Your entire blog post should be amended to read "This post has been removed by the author".

former law student said...

His unusual first name is a Norse word meaning “true” and “brave victory.” ... a tribute to Trig’s great uncle

Ah,like 1st UN Secy Genl Trygve Lie. Now I get it.

john said...

Paul,

I think there's supposed to be an "o" in that word you can't seem to write out.

Oh, and you really spent your wad on that bit of hyperbole.

Simon said...

Paul, spare us the faux outrage. "Impressed" was poor word choice, perhaps, but the point was obvious enough: someone who is pro-life is compelled - handcuffed, even - by their beliefs, and thus makes no choice at all to keep the child, whereas a person who is pro-choice must agonize over it.

What's peculiar about it, however, is that the statement seems to assume that one who is pro-choice, who supports abortion rights, isn't someone who thinks abortion is wrong, and who may face just as simple a choice as a devout pro-lifer when it comes to their own child.

knoxwhirled said...

Oh, and Track Palin is adorable. Good on him for choosing to serve in the military.

There's something about kids of the political elite enlisting that's especially endearing-- and heartening. I got the hugest crush on Prince Harry when I saw those Afghanistan pics.

Ann Althouse said...

Paul, calm down. My point is that if you are pro-life, you can't get an abortion because the child has Down Syndrome. I stand by my comment. You need to make a better effort to understand it. I am showing respect for people with pro-life beliefs here in that there is no question that they will have this child. People who accept abortion have a hard decision to make. Many get abortions for this reason. If they don't, they deserve special credit, I think. They had an escape, and they didn't take it.

Ann Althouse said...

Analogy: A pro-lifer not getting an abortion is like not dodging the draft. A pro-choicer not getting an abortion is like enlisting when there is no draft.

rhhardin said...

May G-d forgive you.

I'd escalate the dispute at this point.

For one thing, the Hitler court has been bypassed.

rhhardin said...

Kim Kim Kim Kim Kim Cattrall! You were in "Mannequin," and that was a really good movie! Kim Cattrall, Kim Cattrall, Kim Cattrall, Kim Caaaattraaaaa-halll!

There's a very nice Tibetan song Khu Sim Sim that you may like.

The guy reminds me (only) briefly of Tiny Tim.

Ann Althouse said...

Let me also say, that if you are pro-life, that is if you would impose your views on everyone else and limit their freedom, you are absolutely compelled to follow the rule yourself. You'd be a monumental hypocrite. A politician with a public position on this has no option but to follow through with the pregnancy (or become a pro-choicer and apologize). If you are pro-choice, you should still take abortion seriously and analyze the choice carefully, but if you decide to have an abortion, you are not doing something that you would prevent others from doing. Many, many women have aborted babies that would be born with Down Syndrome. Presumably, they go on to have other children (who would not have been born if the aborted child had been born). I think they come to the decision that more good will come of it that way.

rhhardin said...

The original thought wasn't that complicated, I didn't think.

Say you're a contractor and the company double pays your bill when it splits.

You don't get extra credit for not taking an undeserved $30,000 if you think undeserved taking is wrong.

Though it may show how deep that thinking goes with you.

rhhardin said...

Try getting them to take it off your 1099 though.

Ann Althouse said...

Look, I realize that if you think abortion is murder it seems terrible to give someone credit for not committing murder.

But by the same token, why give Palin credit for not committing murder then? I'm seeing people acting like she did something excellent. Explain that. The point in my post is that she didn't do anything special within her set of beliefs. She merely refrained from committing murder.

Something doesn't really fit there.

By the way, I think it's wrong to kill your unborn child because it has Down Syndrome, but I realize that many, many women -- millions? -- have done exactly this.

Ruth Anne Adams said...

Merely having the child with Down syndrome is not all a pro-lifer does. They actually raise the child. Margaret Sanger would be so pleased to know that 90% of people with a prenatal diagnosis of Down choose to abort.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

I think that positions of being pro choice (abortions are available) to being pro life (no abortions should be available) is a continuum rather than a stark either or choice.

For example I'm pro choice in theory in that I don't think abortion should be illegal, but morally I am anti-abortion and consider it murder (unless it is to save the life of the mother in the early stages of the pregnancy and when the feotus isn't viable.) Why should my personal choice be dictated to the rest of women? Each person has to struggle with that moral problem on their own.

There is also a difference between willy nilly having abortions as a form of after-the-fact birth control, or making a painful decision to abort a child that would have a very small chance of surviving or would suffer horribly. I don't mean Downs Syndrome here because many with that syndrome have fulfilling lives and personally know a young man with this who is a joy to be around. I too think it would be wrong to terminate a pregnancy just because of Downs. What I'm talking about are much more serious conditions.

I agree, Ms Palin going forward with her child knowing that he has Downs AND her position on pro-life is right in step with her beliefs. Were she ambivilant on abortion or pro choice and still chose to not terminate the pregancy, then that would be different.

It is a difficult conundrum. Stephen Hawkings is a case where the parents might have chosen to abort because of his severe physical disabilities and think about the ramifications on science and our knowledge base had they made this choice. Sigh.....so difficult. No easy answers.

Chip Ahoy said...

Dear Lord, I'm smitten with love at first sight.

bearbee said...

I understood your initial comment and had no problem with it.

People who accept abortion have a hard decision to make.

Hasn't the pro-lifer made a similarly hard but upfront decision knowing that a future child could be born with Downs or with some other more disabling handicap?

john said...

MSN says Obama has nomination wrapped up and that Clinton says she's open to the VP slot.

McCain has 1-2 days at most to pick Palin for his VP; after that he can't.

Chip Ahoy said...

Did you see the guy with downs on the dance competition. He didn't do well, but he brought down the house. His enthusiasm is positively infectious and it was difficult for the judges to not give the guy a pass just for that. Brett Banford on You Think You Can Dance.

TitusSheBop said...

I am devastated by all of the nasty comments about SJP.

I didn't realize people hated her so much.

Everyone I know loves her.

Palady, interesting that you put that Silence of the Lambs clip out. When I watched that movie I was living in Boston, going to school. That scene actually had a major impact on me. He was talking to me. Coming straight from the farm, my fellow gays in Boston called me Ellie May from the Beverly Hillbillies-it almost destroyed me but I fought back.

Many years later I am now fabulous and my shoes are Prada so that line wouldn't work anymore. Also, I don't carry any type of handbag.

Wahrheit said...

As someone who staffed for one of her campaign opponents in a statewide primary, and then watched her operate for the next several years, I can tell you that Palin is very smart, charismatic and does television pretty well. She has cultivated a "nice" image but is quite a calculator with an eye on the long term; I figure she's looking at the Senate after Ted Stevens finally gets wheeled off into the sunset.

In the glare of the national campaign, how well she's weather it is problematic; it would be like when an A-leaguer gets promoted to the Yankees. She has the potential, however.

But all this is just fun speculation, unfortunately, because I don't think there's any way in hell McCain takes any risks in his VP choice. He's in a good position with the Electoral College, and Palin won't bring in MI, OH or PA or any of the handful of states that the election may turn on. Mainly, I think, he needs to play by the rules and let Michelle Obama do some townhalls and Barack talk in detail about how he'll handle Iraq...

TitusSheBop said...

I love Madonna also.

I do though, hear my real girlfriends tell me they want bodies like SJP and Madonna.

Maybe straighty guys don't like their physiques but all of the women I know want to look like them.

So there-that was just being sarcastic.

Kim Cattrall was in one of the Porky's movies too. I think she is the woman that moaned really loud when she got fucked and everyone in the gym could here it.

TitusSheBop said...

When the television show was a huge hit in NYC SJP's face was everywhere.

I remember this huge poster on the side of a building of her that looked 10 stories high.

It was incredible.

Straighties, you got to like her legs and ass don't you? Those are nice. They are tight and hot.

reader_iam said...

Stephen Hawkings is a case where the parents might have chosen to abort because of his severe physical disabilities

Minor point of fact: Stephen Hawkins has ALS--Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis, often referred to as Lou Gehrig's disease--a motor neuron disease, which, in his case, developed in early adulthood. (By the way, his survival length is beyond rare, to damn near miraculous.) While there may be an hereditary or familial factor in 5%-10% of ALS cases, in most there are not, and there is no test to determine if one has it prior to symptoms presenting, much less whether anyone will get it, much less pre-birth. (I looked into this when my own mother was diagnosed with ALS several months ago.) So Hawking's case--or ALS generally--doesn't really fit into the abortion issue.

Steven said...

How do you square this supposed "cluelessness about how their appearance resonates with others" with the apparent reality that her appearence responates pretty well with heterosexual men?

"Others" means "catty fashionistas".

Wait, that adjective is redundant.

TitusSheBop said...

If you do Yoga in the city you will see many women with similar bodies to SJP and Madonna.

Really well defined arms, tight abs, nice strong legs.

They don't really look skinny or waify like Kate Moss. They almost look somewhat muscular and toned.

Also, you should see the positions they can get their bodies in.

That has to be good for some points with the hetero men.

I would do Madonna or SJP is they wanted to.

Ann Althouse said...

"I am devastated by all of the nasty comments about SJP. I didn't realize people hated her so much."

I think people are just weirded out by the cognitive dissonance. We're expected to think she's gorgeous and she's just not. You may like her legs and lower body, but you are gay. You have to take that into account!

"...my fellow gays in Boston called me Ellie May from the Beverly Hillbillies-it almost destroyed me but I fought back."

I thought you were from Wisconsin. There's nothing hillbilly about Wisconsin. Are Bostonians such idiots that they can't keep the hillbilly steoreotype separate from farm boy? And that doesn't sound very gay to me.

Jake said...

McCain is a smart, smart man to consider someone like Palin for VP.

The knock would be that she's relatively inexperienced, but that criticism would ring more than a little hollow coming from the Obama camp.

With Obama's well-documented issues with the female vote post-Hillary, I'd argue the odds of a female VP just shot up.

Jake said...

Oh, and concerning the more important discussion....

SJP looks like a horse.

No really, she does.

http://www.sarahjessicaparkerlookslikeahorse.com/06.htm

Trooper York said...

You see Titus; girls like Madonna and Sarah Jessica Horseface are the kind of girls that gay guys like to pal around with. But most straight guys know that they are nasty twats who spend too much time in the gym and are way too superficial and catty to deal with. Don't get me wrong, you would do them, but they often reek of desperation especially at the age of these whores. The only one who is even remotely close to realistic is the redhead who moved to Brooklyn. But you probably hate her cause she's a lesbian.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"So Hawking's case--or ALS generally--doesn't really fit into the abortion issue."

Ah. Thanks for the information Reader and sorry to hear about your Mother.

Still the conundrum of chosing to abort or to not a severely disabled child is a tough one. Thank God I have never had to face such a choice.

Palin as a VP choice would be a very good one IMHO. Pretty, likeable, smart, conservative!!, from a State that has oil and she wants to let us get it, and both she and McCain have children in Iraq so no chicken hawk distractions can be used. Her husband is part Native American and so far as I can tell, the both seem to be salt of the earth type of people. Good choice.

Dust Bunny Queen said...

"But most straight guys know that they are nasty twats who spend too much time in the gym and are way too superficial and catty to deal with. Don't get me wrong, you would do them, but they often reek of desperation especially at the age of these whores."

But, but.... Trooper, tell us how you really feel. :-)

My husband agrees with you btw

Paddy O. said...

A politician with a public position on this has no option but to follow through with the pregnancy (or become a pro-choicer and apologize).

A politician? They have more options. Hush it up would be a big one.

What this says that impresses me, I suppose, is that Palin actually practices what she preaches.

Something like 90% Down Syndrome pregnancies are terminated, so there are a lot of hypocrites out there who really believe one thing but can't face the reality of their beliefs in their own lives.

We see that she's not just trying to play the politics of it like so many other Republican politicians.

Ann Althouse said...

The husband is a fisherman. That's so cool!

Trooper York said...

That's because your husband is cool enough to have a boss chick like you DBQ. Great minds think alike.

I bet Stephen Hawking wouldn't even run her over with his wheelchair.

Simon said...

Wahrheit, thanks for stopping by; first-hand information is tremendously helpful. I'm not sure I agree, however, that "Palin won't bring in MI, OH or PA or any of the handful of states that the election may turn on." Is it possible that Palin could help in those states in the way that Jonah Goldberg suggests - "for the moderate soccer mom types who were all jazzed about Hillary being the first woman president, she might win a few suburbanite female swing-voters"? Also, since you can't beat someone with no one, as they say, who could McCain pick other than Palin who does help with those states, and what do they bring that she doesn't that helps?

blake said...

I've been reading this thread and think I'll go back to the SJP from "Square Pegs". I liked her in that. Jami Gertz was cuter (and still is, I think, very thin but not stringy) and IRL I understand Tracy Nelson (the other "popular" girl on the show) is a very nice person.

All this being mental fluff as I ponder knoxwhirled's notion of Hil(l)ary as VP to McCain.

Brilliant? Madness? Or both?

Would they get disaffected Hil(l)ary voters? Or would they pick up her negatives?

Played right, I think it could be brilliant, but I don't think McCain's smooth enough to pull it off.

Wahrheit said...

Just to clarify, her husband works on the North Slope in the oil patch. In Alaska, all manner of folks with other jobs do some commercial fishing in the summer. I even went one year to Bristol Bay after the legislative session--an amazing experience.

Oh, and Todd's also a big snowmobile racer.

Maybe McCain will take a risk???

Simon said...

TitusSheBop said...
"Maybe straighty guys don't like their [Madonna's and SJP's] physiques but all of the women I know want to look like them."

Question: if the women you know want to look like that, do the lesbians you know (who aspire to that physique themselves, you've told us) want to have sex with women with that physique?

Trooper York said...

Jake wins the thread by a mile. That website is the funniest thing I have seen in a long, long time.

I salute you.

Patm said...

I like Palin a lot - have liked her for the last few months and I think McCain would be an idiot to put another white male on his ticket when he has her for an option. She's smart, she's got more experience than Obama....and if McCain dies in office, she's the first female president. Cool.

Patm said...

I've been a "hold my nose and vote for McCain" type but if he chooses Webb, he'll finally have given me a reason not to vote for him.

Palin is the go-to girl.

Wahrheit said...

Simon, these are excellent questions. Romney has some risks (religion) and rewards (Michigan), Pawlenty seems safe enough. I personally love Jindahl and Palin, but as a former "professional" I find it hard to believe McCain would get that creative and risky. He has done some unconventional things already in this campign, though. To see Sarah Palin vs. Hilary in a debate would be awesome TV!

essaybee said...

Track, Bristol, Willow, Piper, and Trig. Good grief, why do people give their children names that belong on pets?

Meade said...

ann althouse said...
The husband is a fisherman. That's so cool!

Oh no! I can just see this going viral on YouTube
The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife

Simon said...

Pawlenty is who I've suspected he'll pick, but not out of any particular preference myself; Jindal has a few problems, starting with his only having been in office - his present office, that is - for a few months, and lacking experience before that. He seems like a good "farm team" guy.

The difficulty I have on the veep side is really that there's no really ideal choice - all the possible contenders have problems (or perhaps flags, concerns, is a better way to put it) of one kind or another. It would be better if Palin had gotten into office two years sooner, or if we had someone else who was ideal so we can keep her on the farm team for next time. But it seems possible to me that we may need her now, she may be our best pick in the circumstances.

Meade said...

Simon said:

"... she may be our best pick in the circumstances."

And if she were male?

Trooper York said...

Hey Bridget Bardot just sent me a nasty email for making fun of Sarah Jessica Horseface.

I guess she is serious about this animal rights thingy.

Meade said...

And it isn't that Sarahca Jessicker Paraka looks like a horse, it's that she has a horse's philtrum. Which is probably the reason all gay men find her irresistible.

azlibertarian said...

With regard to your point #3 on "newcomer states", and completely ignoring the discussion on Sarah Jessica Parker, I'll add that McCain represents the 48th state.

LargeBill said...

Dust Bunny Queen,

Do you realize what you wrote?
"For example I'm pro choice in theory in that I don't think abortion should be illegal, but morally I am anti-abortion and consider it murder (unless it is to save the life of the mother in the early stages of the pregnancy and when the feotus isn't viable.) Why should my personal choice be dictated to the rest of women?"

So you believe it is murder, but you also don't feel it should be illegal. The obvious continuation of that line of "thought" is that you don't think any murder should be illegal. Or are some murders more equal than others?

mike said...

Have to admit, I've pretty much ignored the previous 127 commenters, given that number, our host has probably pretty much done the same, after all, 127 just too much.
So, of course I gotta go with number 128! Idiot!
Anyway, I've gotta go with MN Governor Tim Pawlenty for McCain's veep and let Sarah and Jindahl fight it out for 2012's veep to Tim. I'll go with Bobby!

Mortimer Brezny said...

I find interesting that a comment thread about Gov. Palin turns into a dialogue involving the television habits of gay men, what constitutes a sexy lesbian body, palindromes, and Simon Dodd's use of MILF Hunter. Look what Sarah Palin inspires! Absolute lunacy.

That said, I would beast-f__k the living daylights out of her gubernatorial, mink-wearing Down's-syndrome-baby-producing body from now until the aurora borealis shimmered above us. For that reason alone, I would vote for her for President. Not to mention pro-life, pro-gun, pro-fur, super hot women who like kids are incredibly sexy. And I heard she played basketball, too. I would play close defense all over that. That's what I call a Vice President. Emphasis on vice.

Revenant said...

Or are some murders more equal than others?

This might come as a shock to you, but the law has distinguished between different types of murder for thousands of years.

Trooper York said...

See Mort, I knew you would come through for the home team. By the way how about some nice words about that delicious piece of chocolate Jennifer Hudson. Now that's a real woman for crying out loud.

blake said...

DBQ's opinion is pretty close to my own. I have no interest in letting the government turn all women's womb's into crime scene.

Is that menses--or murder?

Lots and lots of pregnancies naturally terminate. Some say this is a harbinger of doom, others say it's perfectly normal. Either way, if you were to treat it like you the potential murder of a born person, that leads to state powers that dwarf just about anything else we've seen.

Simon said...

LMAO at Mort's Vice-President gag.

Meade said...
"[Simon said she may be our best pick in the circumstances.] And if she were male?"

Successful young governor, untainted by the last eight years, articulate, charismatic, principled and tough? Absolutely she would be in the running if she were male. Would she be quite so high up in the ranking if she were male? Probably not, because she wouldn't tick off as many boxes. That shouldn't be shocking. Whether you or I approve of the criteria voters use in making up their minds is irrelevant; if the voters award a candidate an extra point for being female, you give the female candidate an extra point when deciding if they're the nominee. We're not talking about considering someone who is not otherwise qualified. We're talking about winnowing the field based on the criteria that the electorate will select.

This is an election, not an academic exercise, and the stakes are monstrously high. This isn't the time to be fretting about whether the electorate should or shouldn't award that extra point - if they do, that's a weapon, and you use it.

Think of it like this: I don't believe that legislative history should be used as a guide to the meaning of a statute. But if I'm arguing a case, and all judges do believe in looking to the legislative history, and if there's legislative history that supports the interpretation that helps my client, you bet you ass I'm going to cite the legislative history to them.

Evilbob333 said...

Aside from her back door attempts to move the state capitol to Anchorage, I think she has been a great governor. And for mostly that reason, I don't think she should be considered for VP.
On the up side, if she gets in, she might work towards moving the national capitol to Anchorage. Just think 6 monthes out of the year where Congress really doesn't want to be in session, and the other six months they will be to busy hunting, fishing and hiking to do anything to us.

clint said...

John @5:55 PM:

MSN says Obama has nomination wrapped up and that Clinton says she's open to the VP slot.

McCain has 1-2 days at most to pick Palin for his VP; after that he can't.


Depends.

Palin's gender is a huge asset primarily if Obama doesn't pick Hillary as a running mate. (And I still think he'd be insane to let her on the ticket...)

So, perhaps better to see how that plays out before announcing the GOP veep, no?

If it's Obama-Clinton, then the election strategy of trying to peel off disaffected Clinton voters is no longer such a clever idea.

clint said...

meade @7:46 PM:

And if she were male?

But she's not.

Hey, if we got to construct our ideal candidates from scratch, without flaws or history, and demand that the electorate only consider features that we consider relevant, then we'd live in a very different world indeed. We'd live in the world that the mainstream media think they live in.

Meade said...

Simon,
I thought I remembered you making a very impassioned (and convincing) argument against the racialism expressed by Obama supporters who used his blackness as a reason to support his candidacy. How would this be any different - using Sarah Palin's femaleness?

Ruth Anne Adams said...

Meade: Palin's 100% female.

TitusSheBop said...

I am from Wisconsin but moved to Boston when I was 17 to go to college. Many of my fellow students were from Andover, Brookline, Choate, Greenwich, Wellesley-they had a right.

Hence, Wisconsin-Ellie Mae.

I thought you knew my life story.

I am hurt. I thought you knew me better.

TitusSheBop said...

"I thought you were from Wisconsin. There's nothing hillbilly about Wisconsin. Are Bostonians such idiots that they can't keep the hillbilly steoreotype separate from farm boy? And that doesn't sound very gay to me."

The answer to your question is "yes"-they seriously thought Wisconsin was either by Kentucky or Idaho-they really didn't care. They thought it was all rubbish.

6

Simon said...

Meade, it's completely different. It's using a criteria that apparently matters to some of the voters we hope to win, in order to break a tie between several otherwise equal candidates. As I made clear in my post above, that implies no approval or disapproval of whether voters are correct to add weight to Palin's gender. If a wide majority of voters were trekkies and Romney spoke fluent Klingon, that'd be an argument for nominating him as veep, even if you and I think that's silly. I agree with what I think Clint is getting at, above: you go to the polls with the electorate you have, not the one you'd prefer. Palin's good. She's as good as any of the alternatives, although all of the alternatives are also good for different reasons. If she confers the most net electoral advantage, that's good enough.

TitusSheBop said...

I don't know any lesbians Simon.

They are gross.

vbspurs said...

How come straighties don't like Sarah Jessica Parker?

Titus, I'm amazed. How can you ask that question?

After long and hard observation these many years of the dynamics of gay-straight preferences in females, I've come to this conclusion.

Effeminate homosexual males like caricatures of women. The more outlandish, or bathic, the better.

Perhaps it's a projection, or wish-fulfillment of how they would like to be, if they were female themselves. Or maybe they are more sensitive to the extremes of nature.

Female attraction for straight males is very different. They prefer women they can love -- with everything that implies.

Women who arouse them, will take care of them, and make them feel good about themselves in front of others.

I once wrote a huge blogpost about Old Hollywood stars, called Faces.

This is what I wrote about Greta Garbo. Men were repelled by her, whilst she had legions of female and gay fans, as you know.

She was one of those rare females who turned men off, and turned women on, and each was not quite sure why.

I know why.

In fact, we all do -- she was translucent, and vulnerable, and strong, and cold. She played a game that men didn't understand, but that women still do today.


In other words, she was her own woman on her own terms.

That's always a tough sell for straight women or homosexual men.

SJP's character is a living embodiment of that credo.

Cheers,
Victoria

TitusSheBop said...

That website is evil Jake and should be destroyed.

Maybe SJP isn't "pretty" but she is certainly attractive.

I believe straight men would notice her walking down the street (if she was not SJP) with her long blonde curly hair, in a mini, showing her amazing legs, and with something tight on top showing off her breasts.

No?

TitusSheBop said...

For the record Sarah Palin is very attractive in comparison to other female politicians.

vbspurs said...

No?

Yes, but then she'd turn around and all they'd see is her schnozzola.

(Don't worry, my mum has a big hooter, and she's gorgeous. But her nose fits her symmetrical face. SJP's just does not)

There are some cultures who do unusual faces better than others.

The French even have a sub-category for it called "la belle laide" (the ugly beauty).

Spanish actress Rossy de Palma fits this description perfectly.

Her Plantagenet face, all jutting edges and unexpected swoops, is memorable.

But Americans don't do memorable. They do pretty. Pretty boys, and pretty girls.

Put it this way: would you rather have been called Ellie Mae, or Granny Clampett?

I love me some Irene Ryan, but man, yikes.

Cheers,
Victoria

Ralph said...

You'd be a monumental hypocrite
When has that stopped anyone from doing something he really wants to do? I'm sure any parent would be tempted, she just had a few more reasons to resist it. But think of the TV appearances and book deals on offer if she publicly changed her mind.

Ralph said...

Square Pegs just missed being a really good show.
As a life-long boney person (lately combined with a small gut), I've always though the SJP human coat-hanger look repulsive. The motivation seems to be "look what I did with my body that you can't", which isn't very attractive, either, and may explain Titus' affinity.

vbspurs said...

"look what I did with my body that you can't", which isn't very attractive, either, and may explain Titus' affinity.

Ralph, strangely enough, I'm going to disagree with you here.

I think Titus is really attracted to her poise, which passes for class in this day and age.

(Real class is Audrey Hepburn, another skinny-bones)

That's not a bad thing, and I rather like how gay men are attracted to SJP. What straight men see as ditzy, some women and gays see as vulnerable and human.

Back in the day, Mary Tyler Moore was a reed-thin ditz on the Van Dyke show. But she was pert. Like a girl you could actually nab.

SJP is the girl who is out of your league and knows it.

Anyway...sorry about the threadjack. Sarah Palin? Still loving her 9 hours after my first reply.

Ralph said...

Victoria, since I'm not a girl, I take Titus at his (fabulous) word.
SJP was endearing in Square Pegs, now she's just a faux aristocrat, but in NY it's all about the money.

Meade said...

vbspurs said...
"...[Straight males] prefer women they can love -- with everything that implies.

Women who arouse them, will take care of them, and make them feel good about themselves in front of others."

All true, but, speaking on behalf of all straight males everywhere and always, above all those qualities, what we want is a partner who is trustworthy, loyal, and kind, and who shares a sense of humor. Physical beauty fades, caregiving roles flip and flop, and the way we feel about ourselves in front of others becomes progressively less important. Sarah Palin may not make an adequate vice president for John McCain but she seems to be a decent governor of Alaska and a terrific mother and wife, someone her husband can grow old with and share smiles and laughter with until the end. He's a lucky guy who has found and chose, I suspect, exactly the person he wanted and has.

blake said...

I kinda like the threadjack. I mean, let's face it, the GOP as repped here, likes Palin, and the men like her.

SJP is a much more contentious figure, apparently.

And, Victoria, Mary may have been skinny in the '60s, but she had the endearing trait of putting on any extra pounds on her hips and breasts.

bearbee said...

The French even have a sub-category for it called "la belle laide" (the ugly beauty).

Spanish actress Rossy de Palma fits this description perfectly.


Ugly beauty? I see a stunning beauty.

But Americans don't do memorable. They do pretty. Pretty boys, and pretty girls.

Objection. America is a mix of too many ethniticies each with its own appreciation of beauty to make such a general statement, In addition I would differentiate between young and older Americans.

The comments here over SJP, she's beautiful, no she's a horse-face, is case in point.

vbspurs said...

Whoa! We should talk about SJP more often. Look at all these comments since I posted.

Ralph: You know, I never did watch Square Pegs. I can barely believe this is Sarah-Jessica as a teen. Okay, she's not beautiful today, but at least she's sleek. That teen photo makes her look so...ordinary.

Meade: Too true, my friend. Loyalty I think is very high up in the male cannon of female-attributes. But remember, throughout the centuries men have left women who were all that you said, simply because they didn't love them anymore, not because the women weren't loyal, kind or could laugh with them. Ultimately, I do believe admiration is what keeps a man interested in his woman. That encompasses everything you said and I said.

Blake: During the Mary Tyler Moore show you mean? Yeah, she did beef up a bit. But after Ordinary People, when her diabetes took over, she gave Gloria Vanderbilt a run for her skinny-jeans money.

Bearbee: Understood. But given the choice, which woman would you think most American males would choose? Diane Lane or SJP?

(Trying to think of a near contemporary)

Remember Diane when she was in that kiddie Venice romance movie? Adorable.

Cheers,
Victoria

Ted said...

After watching both McCain's and Obama's speeches on TV Tuesday night, McCain no less than NEEDS to run Alaska Gov Sarah Palin as his VP mate.

Simon said...

Ted - because?

Ted said...

Because McCain and the GOP (I'm assuming) want to win the election in November.

Titusitsrainingmen said...

Very insighful Victoria and i agree with your assessment of why gay men like certain women.

By the way i think Rosey De palma is beautiful.

Loved her in George Michael's video Too Funky.

Mike@ said...

Those who wish to compare Sarah Palin with Hillary from a pure attractiveness perspective, should look no further than this picture.

If Mac picks Palin as his VP, I predict a landslide (republican victory, that is).

Simon said...

Ted, I understand that, but it's not very useful. I'm asking you why you think Palin brings more to the ticket than another possible contender would?

Vita said...

Gov.Palin needs to stay in Alaska to pursue her announced lawsuit to de-list the polar bear as an endangered species. The listing is expected to trigger lawsuits on any development and/or construction that could possibly affect the status of the ice in polar bear habitat, which effectively hands over much of the U.S. economy to hyper-environmentalists. She is paying attention, even if most of us aren't.

Wahrheit said...

I'm asking you why you think Palin brings more to the ticket than another possible contender would?

Simon, you and I seem to be the only ones who think this way; everyone else thinks this is a thread about female beauty! :)

As attractive as she is physically, and as interesting as the prospect of here as VP might be, I think the big negative is that she fails the "ready to be President if the old guy keels over" test. The Dems would be all over this.

By 2012 Palin and Jindahl might be ready for the national spotlight if they work at it. On a cold political calculation, if I were advising McCain I think I'd lean "no," for now.

Are there any Republican woman and/or minority terror warriors who are also photogenic, diplomatic and give great speeches?

I suppose if there were they would be the Presidential nominee...

bearbee said...

I think the big negative is that she fails the "ready to be President if the old guy keels over" test. The Dems would be all over this.

And yet many Democrats have no problem with a lightweight Obama.

61north said...

Ask any Alaskan who follows politics and they will tell you that Palin's a little in over her head as governor. She got elected on the issue of ethics and reform due to the ethical and public relations disasters of the previous governor. Folks wanted a change badly enough to vote for the "change" candidate regardless of their qualifications (or lack thereof).

Since being elected, she has backed a massive tax increase on the oil companies, led a failing plan to build a natural gas pipeline (the plan from the oil companies is better), failed to stand up to the State Supreme court that recently ruled that 13 year-old girls can get an abortion without parental consent, and she proposed a massive new welfare program that would give each resident (all income levels) a state-issued debit card worth $1200 per year. She has overseen the largest increases ever in the State operating budget while simultaneously issuing a series of inconsistent, incomprehensible vetoes of capital projects.

She is no conservative. She is probably the most liberal governor Alaska has ever had and most conservatives here in Alaska are getting pretty sick of her.

She's honest, but not much of a debater. She mostly just repeats talking points over and over. It's pretty sad and she would get sliced and diced pretty badly by most national politicians.

She is definitely NOT ready for VP even though I voted for her for governor.

blake said...

Ralph: You know, I never did watch Square Pegs. I can barely believe this is Sarah-Jessica as a teen. Okay, she's not beautiful today, but at least she's sleek. That teen photo makes her look so...ordinary.

Indeed. That's the point. She was one of the unpopular girls. Though she had some tender moments with the meathead jock, if (very dim) memory serves.

But if you saw her in that show and ten years later saw her as the bimbo ditz in L.A. Story, you might be surprised to find that was the same girl. (Even her role in Footloose might make you think, "Here's someone who's going to be the friend of the main character.")

Meanwhile, Amy Linker, who played her chubby friend with braces, was actually a total hottie. And, like John Femia, got out of the biz shortly after the series.

Then there's the very talented Merritt Buttrick, who played a combo hippie/New Age type, and died of AIDS a few years later.

Next up: Whatever happened to the cast of "Bosom Buddies"?
Blake: During the Mary Tyler Moore show you mean? Yeah, she did beef up a bit. But after Ordinary People, when her diabetes took over, she gave Gloria Vanderbilt a run for her skinny-jeans money.

She's been a variety of weights but, like, say, Rebbecca De Mornay, they all seem to be rather pleasing.

Bearbee: Understood. But given the choice, which woman would you think most American males would choose? Diane Lane or SJP?

Diane Lane was totally off my radar in her youth, even though I've seen plenty her earlier work. Not that she was ugly or anything, but she was sort of generically cute. As she's gotten older, she's become way more compelling to look at, IMO. (Say, about Glass House.)

bearbee said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
bearbee said...

61nort that is interesting stuff. Sounds as if she might be perfect a VP.....for Obama.

Pulled up a Dec '07 article on the tax increase.

Says 90% of Alaska's budget depends on oil/gas tax revenues.

Has there been a negative effect on production/investment by oil producers after 2 increases?
Is Alaska attempting to diversify in an effort broaden its tax base?

Simon said...

Wahrheit:
"Simon, you and I seem to be the only ones who think this way; everyone else thinks this is a thread about female beauty! :)"

Well, one of the nice things about the Althousian Commentariat is that we can go back and forth between frivolous and serious in the same thread. :p I mean, I don't disagree with Mort's comment above about Palin's appeal, and sure, let's talk about that, but as a tangent - let's primarily talk seriously about her as a possible veep, because that's the real issue here.

On that front, while I'm inclined to agree with your point that "she fails the 'ready to be President if the old guy keels over' test" (or at least could be portrayed that way), and while I agree that's especially important in this election (interesting times; old candidate), what say you to Bearbee's point, which is also pretty good? Can the dems credibly make hay that McCain's veep isn't ready to take over should McCain keel over when their Presidential candidate is even less equipped to take the reins?

61north, the tax issue I will have to look into. The abortion case - I assume you mean State v. Planned Parenthood of Alaska, 171 P.3d 577 (2007) (held: the state's interests in "protecting minors from their own immaturity and aiding parents in fulfilling their parental responsibilities" are compelling interests, but the act is not the least restrictive means of accomplishing these, and thus violates the Alaska Constitution's privacy clause); what was Palin's response, and what should it have been?

I don't know enough to challenge your points here, so I'm asking, but I do so while noting that I'm somewhat suspicious of the "____ is no conservative" in this election cycle, when it's been so often applied to John McCain. That said, regardless of what I'd list as my first choice, I would prefer a moderate conservative over a liberal Democrat any day, and I really don't understand why that concept meets so much resistance in an election cycle where the electoral imperative is creating distance between the GOP candidate and the GOP record in Bush's miasma of a second term. Can you tell us more?

Simon said...

blake has left a new comment on the post "Let's talk about potential VP candidate Sarah Pali...":
"Meanwhile, Amy Linker, who played her chubby friend with braces, was actually a total hottie. And, like John Femia, got out of the biz shortly after the series."

Makes me think of The Truth About Cats & Dogs, where you had Uma Thurman (who I find not at all attractive) as the supposed hot chick and Janeane Garofalo (who was at that time exceedingly attractive) as the supposed dumpy friend.

blake said...

Well, Linker's make-up was convincing--and probably didn't help her career--but go check out the IMDB page.

http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0512921/

The Garofalo thing is more like an "Ugly Betty" situation, where whatever they did to make her "unattractive" wasn't really all that successful.

My favorite example of this is in Fred Olen Ray's "Evil Toons", which features Monique Gabrielle as the "homely girl". Achieved by putting a pair of glasses on her. Heh. Or, Kathy Ireland in "Alien from L.A.".

It's a silly Hollywood trope but these guys take it to extremes.

Titusastarisborn said...

Didn't The Waitresses sing the theme song to Square Pegs/

I loved them.

I know what boys like
I know what girls like
Boys like
Boys like
You
Na, na, na, na, nah

DJK said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
DJK said...

Some more palindromes:

Poop
Mom
Dad
Racecar
SO Many Dynamos

61north said...

If you want more info on Sarah, read this Newsweek article:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/139335/page/1

Even Newsweek compares her to Hugo Chavez.

The only reason she's popular up here is that she's not corrupt. However, she is no friend of business or small government. We Alaskan conservatives feel like we got the "bait and switch" with her.

Her policies haven't yet caused a decrease in oil production (it's declining just fine on its own), but the oil companies are making some loud noises about not starting new projects. Of course, the oil companies also just spent a record amount of money for new oil leases in the Chukchi Sea, but those are Federal leases, not State.

61north said...

As far as her abortion views go, she is ostensibly pro-life, but hasn't really had ANY reaction to the Supreme court case up here. She's pretty much ignored the issue.

Pro-life folks understand that there are many pressing matters on the Governor's desk, but want at least an acknowledgment that she supports the pro-life argument and will get around to fixing things eventually. She has been asked to call a special session of the legislature to address the issue, but has so far refused to do so. So pro-life organizations are just stuck with the existing situation at present.

blake said...

That's right, Titus! They were even on an episode of the show.

Square Pegs
Square Pegs
Square Square PEGS!
One size does not fit all

Square Pegs
Square Pegs
Square Square PEGS!
I'd like it if they like us
But I don't think they like us

I must admit I thought they were pretty talentless.

Ted said...

After watching both McCain's and Obama's speeches on TV Tuesday night, McCain no less than NEEDS to run Alaska Gov Sarah Palin as his VP mate.

bearbee said...

61north said...
If you want more info on Sarah, read this Newsweek article:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/139335/page/1

Live Link

bearbee said...

Interesting Newsweek article linked prior.

I was searching for Palin's Govenors Energy Conference speech and instead found this:
Governor Unveils Short-Term Energy Plan
She does have a healthy populist streak.

Ted said...

Again:

Bottom line, with Palin as VP, McCain WINS.

Without Palin, McCain likely does not win.

Case closed.

Simon said...

Ted, repetition isn't argument. Can you elaborate on why you think Palin is so clearly the right choice as opposed to, Pawlenty, for example, or Rice? Which states does she help with and why?

Ted said...

Palin SIMULTANEOUSLY attracts both the Hillary AND the Bob Barr voters -- in ALL the states.

Beldar said...

My extended and very positive take on Gov. Palin.

Aqua71 said...

God, she's hot especially in that Vogue pic. If McCain can't get Cindi to enter that biker strip off maybe he can turn to the VP?

Ryan McFarland said...

Uhm... The Palin fur photo credit goes to me. Sorry - just trying to get the credit where due. (Per the Wiki CC license.)

Ann Althouse said...

Sorry, Ryan. I was just streaming it from the page that I linked to, but it's not there now. I'm not sure how to get back to the page with the license on it. Could you point it out?

CJ said...

That is a specific type of fur which comes from Tanuki. If you go on youtube and look up "China Fur Farm" you will see exactly where it came from. Im not an activist or red paint thrower or whatever but thats just sick and I saw that video and it immediately clicked when I saw this picture. Shame on her.

vbspurs said...

61 North wrote:

Folks wanted a change badly enough to vote for the "change" candidate regardless of their qualifications (or lack thereof).

I revisited Ann's old thread 31 August and was struck by this comment.

If that doesn't describe Barack Obama, I don't know what does.

Cheers,
Victoria

reader_iam said...

Perhaps I've lost the thread, or 61North repeated himself/herself, but I thought that was written back on June 3. It was part of a much longer comment, which provides some context for it.

Ryan McFarland said...

Ann,

That's ok - I love that my photo is getting some use - just want some link love in return if possible!

Here's the Wiki page... http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Sarahpalincrop.jpg

And if you want to link to the post I wrote about the picture or my main page would be great. Thank you! http://www.zieak.com/2007/05/21/governor-sarah-palin-and-the-vikings-and-valkyries/

Dr. Calabria said...

A Warning for Barack Obama. You are going to have to watch your emotional sense of Sarah Palin. People like her, conservatives, are just following rules in their consideration for others. They are rules as in a competition or sporting event, rules that must be obeyed and that derive from fear of judgment from authority, not from any real empathy for the pain and suffering of others. For all conservatives have had their natural emotions wiped from their psyches and replaced by fear of punishment for disobeying rules, fear and guilt inculcated as “conscience” by fear of punishment at a young age. Rather than caring about people as I know you do, Barack, out of genuine empathy, they care about how they are seen and judged in the way that they treat people. Much will be made about McCain and Palin’s attitudes toward people during Hurricane Gustav. There are limits as to how much you can thwart the perception of the electorate towards her and McCain’s sympathy for victims of the storm, for visible statements of concern and supporting deeds speak for themselves are hard to contradict in people’s minds whatever their motive. Reality is the unrehearsed response by conservatives to what happened during Hurricane Katrina. Counterbalance their kind act political theatre during this storm when all eyes are upon them as best you can within the limits of political reality. But you must not, yourself, not even for a moment, become emotionally connected toward Palin as a fellow caring individual in any way, for that misplaced identification of her with yourself would be emotionally fatal to the proper attitude you must have towards her no more than a player on the Bush, Rove, Limbaugh conservative gang that seeks four more years of power, four more years that will destroy us all. She is no more than the sheep’s clothing of the wolf, never more in your mind than an enemy of the people that must be defeated in her efforts to get McCain into the White House.
Ruth Calabria matrix-evolutions

Ryan McFarland said...

I have the copyright for this photo (as posted on the wiki page) please give me credit as the photographer and post a link to http://www.zieak.com/2007/05/21/governor-sarah-palin-and-the-vikings-and-valkyries/ where people can get the full story behind the picture.