The measure, known for now as Initiative Petition 28... would give all animals the same protections from cruelty that Oregon grants dogs and cats.... Hunting, trapping and fishing would be outlawed, along with scientific research on animals, lethal pest control and conventional livestock production....
The fight is in some ways very Oregon, long a proving ground for ideas that initially seemed politically impossible only to enter the mainstream, such as medical aid in dying, universal vote-by-mail and legalizing the hallucinogenic compound in magic mushrooms for therapy.
When people think of "animals" — as in "I love animals!" — they're not thinking about cockroaches and mosquitoes.
ADDED: According to Ballotopedia, the initiative "Applies to mammals (including vermin), birds, reptiles, amphibians, fish." So I think "lethal pest control" is meant to call to mind mice and rats, not the various troublesome insects. The NYT article says "all animals" and also, more than once, says "pest control."In the comments here, Tom T. said, "Then would come the court decisions defining pet ownership as cruelty and outlawing it." That got me looking into the argument that pet-keeping is a form of cruelty to animals. Here's an interesting Vox article from 3 years ago: "The case against pet ownership/Why we should aim for a world with fewer but happier pets." Excerpt:
We demand companionship with as little friction as possible, expecting our pets (especially dogs) to be docile and agreeable, and to adapt quickly to the human world, with its countless rules and norms that mean nothing to them. And then when they inevitably fail to do so at first, we deem their natural habits misbehavior in need of correction, or abandonment....
Just how uneven the relationship is between pets and their human owners was demonstrated during the pandemic when, lonely and stuck at home, one in five households adopted a new pet. As new pet owners returned to work, however, their newly lonely pets struggled with the sudden change, showing high rates of chewing, digging, barking, escaping, pacing, hiding, and indoor urination and defecation. Our pets might not be so bored if they just had some autonomy, but having a pet means regularly denying it....
Gary Francione and Anna Charlton, a firebrand animal rights couple who teach law at Rutgers University... have advocated for the abolition of pet ownership. “Domesticated animals are completely dependent on humans, who control every aspect of their lives,” they wrote in a provocative essay for Aeon in 2016. “Unlike human children, who will one day become autonomous, non-humans never will. That is the entire point of domestication — we want domesticated animals to depend on us. They remain perpetually in a netherworld of vulnerability, dependent on us for everything that is of relevance to them.”...
Posts
76 comments:
It's great to start out the day with a chuckle!
Rats with fleas! What could possibly go wrong?
I hope it passes as then the rest of the country can fully appreciate the total insanity of the Left. Child mutilation wasn’t enough!
This proves Begley’s Axiom: The Left is never satisfied.
I hope Kalshi puts up a market on this. I’d bet that it gets at least 40% of the vote.
As if vote by mail was a good idea! Only good if you want to steal elections.
Then would come the court decisions defining pet ownership as cruelty and outlawing it.
Well, at least they’re looking for the garden of Eden.
Everything, Yes Everything is a fantasy on the left.
I am all for ending animal cruelty in Fauci labs.
but... death to the mosquito.
"...just when Democrats are trying really hard not to be seen as “'weirdos again.'” makes as much sense as "just when hens' eggs are found growing on trees."
The internet informs me that you can keep a canary in a cage in Oregon so long as it is non‑native and captive‑bred.
Summertime. Let the games begin,
Summer in the US has historically been the time set aside for absurdity - stuffing people into small cars, supposedly reading large books in the hot sun at the beach, mostly peaceful city-burning. Each year has its fad. Will the Algae War continue? Will the Iranians close the Straits in their imagination on odd days while negotiating in their imagination on even days and will AI _ a JD Vance hologram be sent to represent the US as the summer moves on?
"Protect Every Animal From Cruelty?" Of course. All animals are equal.
Oregonians- not the ones you see in the streets of Portland, love to fish and hunt, farm and harvest. Want to kill what's left of the Oregon salmon industry? This is a good way. Not to mention Dungeness crab, albacore tuna, and other great seafood.
Who will feed these people when they shut down the producers?
What's wrong with animal rights, by Vicki Hearne
pdf
Hearne takes no prisoners. Author of Adam's Task, Bandit, and Animal Happiness.
She has found women's place - sympathizing with men's interests but applying slight but devastating correctives.
The City vs Country dividing issue has been well and truly made as contentious as possible, and the provocation isn't coming from the country folk. One side demands to be left alone, while the other just demands, period.
I'm starting to think we should starve the cities if we want to live in peace, until they learn to regulate themselves. The things of value that cities produce, they demean, themselves. Aside from these things, nothing but an endless supply of pollution, animus, and thankless grief, and an insatiable hunger for what they haven't already taken.
What about burning ants with a magnifying glass?
Asking for a friend.
How about Open Season on lefties?
We were in Oregon for a couple weeks earlier this month. Largest industry seems to be the manufacturing of yard signs supporting one cause or another. Every house and business seemed to have multiple. Not on the list of places to revisit. But Hayward Field was very cool.
In theory, it turns artificial insemination of cows and horses, a common practice, into "Forcible Rape"
Oregonian coastal guy
Like CA, refusing to build power plants, but running extension cords to the Arizona Navajo Coal plants, we in Oregon will save our fish, and deer and buy it from Idaho, and Washington. Let the fishermen, and tourist industry folks learn to Grok code.
Also on the agenda is the deconstruction of the great Columbia River dams, to save the Salmon, we won't be allowed to fish, except of course the Indians.
All very well and good, but what about protecting our green brothers and sisters in the plant kingdom? How long must we tolerate the cutting off and eating of their reproductive organs?
Will beef be available in the market?
Humperdink said...
Will beef be available in the market?
Apparently cows will still be brought to market, for now, though costs will rise
We both know where the PETA/VEGANS want to take this.
Can Oregonians still buy and consume imported meat and other animal products under the proposed law?
A possible referendum? So that means some activist group has managed to collect 1000 signatures to have the proposal put on the ballot. Of course, it will be soundly defeated.
In the meantime, many state legislatures have wasted time actually proposing bans on chemtrails. Tennessee and Florida actually passed the ban.
You tell me, which is more stupid?
I bet you could get a 1000 signatures in any state to ban Female Suffrage. And many people (looking at you Hardin and Achilles) would actually know what they were signing on to.
When I think about how many federal crimes that I committed with my slingshot as a boy, I just shudder. Now this. When are they going to make it illegal to bring the carcasses of murdered animals into the state, or any parts or products thereof.
I wonder if the next step will be to outlaw red meat posts on social media?
Re chemtrails
https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2021/01/11/bill-gates-backed-climate-solution-gains-traction-but-concerns-linger/
Except hunting is the opposite of cruelty. Do the stupid progressives that write these measures not understand that nature abhors a vacuum and to twist Boyles Law the wildlife will expand to fill available space and then some?
I remember fishing a salmon run near the Seneca reservation and the men were shooting fish from a bridge and sending the boys in to collect them. I don’t remember resenting it though.
Re chemtrails
Actually, your article has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not chemtrails are real.
I can never figure out if they are hunting the coy dogs to protect the deer herd, or hunting the deer to control it.
The entire process of regulating or banning things locally, while continuing to import those produced in violation of those rules, is deeply hypocritical and immoral. All that happens is the exportation of "sin" and degradation to someone else's region.
We should just eliminate every coping mechanism we humans have that isn’t run by a government program.
So there is a plan to spray chemicals into the atmosphere, which would be illegal now in some states, but you are stuck on some irrelevancy.
Oregon is a world of its own: the western half filled with angry, highly politicized mongrels and the eastern half with honest, clear-thinking Americans.
At least that’s been my experience.
So there is a plan to spray chemicals into the atmosphere, which would be illegal now in some states, but you are stuck on some irrelevancy.
No, you are bringing up irrelevant topics to justify state legislatures passing stupid laws. There are no such things as chemtrails. Even if there were, state legislatures have no power to regulate the upper atmosphere. You would be really pissed off if a state tried to ban carbon dioxide emissions from outside the state.
There is a saying that conversation across 20 IQ points is harder than people might think.
"You would be really pissed off if a state tried to ban carbon dioxide emissions from outside the state."
Already happened. Massachusetts v. EPA.
Already happened. Massachusetts v. EPA.
Wrong. Massachusetts proposed regulating carbon dioxide emissions in their state, not pollution coming from other states.
There is a saying that conversation across 20 IQ points is harder than people might think.
Throw out insults instead of defending your position. Unless you are conceding that my IQ is 20 points higher than yours. But I don't think that is what you meant.
Oregon's GNP is 1.11% of USA's GNP.. 27th among the states... I really don't give a shit what they ban. They wanna go down the drain... let them.
Do it to Julia!
The 1960s-1970s hippies got old and got into power. They are hell-bent on executing their Gaia + Population Bomb dreams, as TDS cleared their brains of nuances, balance, and complexities.
Oregon has a "City State" issue. Along with NY, IL, VA, WA, and several others, a dominant mega-city (Portland here) dictates politics for everyone else. There are plenty of deep red people in OR and blue states with significant rural/agricultural populations. Some places like CA, NY, VA, and MD have substantial conservative regions, just not enough to beat the urban dominance and gerrymandering.
Two possible futures: (1) a timid, controlled, micro-managed UK-like park, or (2) regression to the mean as the hippies age out and die.
"Portlandia" was a documentary in the vein of Idiocracy and Reno 911.
Hunting is not cruel if done competently and for food rather than a trophy.
Some dogs are breed solely for the pleasure of their owners to the detriment of their health, such as minature dogs. Wouldn't mind if there was a law against that.
Pet ownership is slavery, and you are the slave.
I have so many owners, I should be an HOA.
Will this apply to the Indian tribes for whom salmon fishing is a traditional practice?
I would expect it would definitely stop the declawing and indoor-only lives of pets. Perhaps even spaying and neutering.
But my last cat, insisted on coming in after appearing as a stray, and then didn't go outside for 3 or 4 years. After, only for short periods. By his own choice, not mine. Though one time I did find him cornered by some turkeys so I made him come in the house.
They will flip when their favorite immigrant-owned, authentically ethnic (that flyover plebes wouldn't appreciate) gets closed due to a rodent infestation. All of the other restaurants will be closed for the same issue, but they'll post online about the unfairness of health department checks on just the one.
Soup kitchens and food pantries will also be subject to rodent infestation without pest control.
I would not be opposed if they found a way to keep bad pet owners - people who adopt and then dump the pet when it's inconvenient and neglectful owners - from ever being able to own a pet again.
Iman said...
Oregon is a world of its own: the western half filled with angry, highly politicized mongrels and the eastern half with honest, clear-thinking Americans.
I live on the Oregon coast. Your view is fairly true, but it's not a unified Blue West side. It's a Blue Lozenge, centered on Interstate 5 from Portland to Eugene (OU) with an isolated blue area by Ashland and Medford
JaimeRoberto said...
Will this apply to the Indian tribes for whom salmon fishing is a traditional practice?
no the Indians get fewer restrictions because traditional casinos fund the Dems
For Sebastian at 8:15 — but some are more equal than others
Oregon: ground zero for the next vermin born plague.
"They [domesticated animals] remain perpetually in a netherworld of vulnerability..."
As if wild animals aren't vulnerable in their world.
It is a preemptive not what Socialist Democrats do, it has others might respond to their behavior. How about not outlawing the way most people live and avoid famine and plagues? Nah, it is only poor timing. They’ll do it eventually, maybe sooner if they can get away with it, because they don’t think it is weird to see humans as pests.
Conversation is difficult when one party has contempt for the other whether the difference is money or IQ. Dr Feynman is a model of having fun talking to everyone.
The younger generation just showed up with the first decline in IQ ever recorded. Maybe democracy isn't all that great.
Freder Frederson said...
Re chemtrails
"Actually, your article has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not chemtrails are real."
They're not.
Protecting rats and other vermin isn't really virtue signaling for leftists. More like professional courtesy.
"Wrong. Massachusetts proposed regulating carbon dioxide emissions in their state, not pollution coming from other states."
No, Fredo- it is you that is wrong. Massachusetts vs EPA was a lawsuit brought by MA and a handful of other blue states that sued to force the EPA to regulate greenhouse gases everywhere inside the borders of The United States. Your IQ might not even reach 75.
The referendum would probably lose in Oregon but that isn't even more than about a 75% probability.
@Amexpat: Hunting is not cruel if done competently and for food rather than a trophy.
How is trophy hunting "cruel"? The hunting industry argues that it's done only with near end-of-life animals and the high permit fees subsidize the next generation of the species.
A "trophy" animal with the biggest antlers or most magnificent body will die soon either way -- the human usage intent is not related to cruelty per se.
Africa had a post-WW2 generation that sought to ban safaris aka "rich white foreigner" hunting (e.g., Kenya 1977). It resulted in widespread poaching and environmental destruction.
Other (not Kenya) African countries later improved their wild animal populations by monetizing hunting, whereby trophy animals sell for big dollars and the local subsistence poachers are incentivized them alone. They let the rich foreigners kill them, as the laws require that the locals get the meat anyway. The game reserves thrive while outside areas remain controlled by poachers, and often barren.
A core pro-hunting argument is that some percentage of the wild population will die every season. All hunting is a form of population management, and sometimes it calls for killing more females (non-trophy) to balance things out.
I'm not a hunter, but Ron Spomer (with a decades-long career in hunting writing, youtube, and more) is probably the best living example of an articulate hunter.
A "trophy" animal with the biggest antlers or most magnificent body will die soon either way -- the human usage intent is not related to cruelty per se.
That is the exact opposite of reality. An animal with "the biggest antlers or most magnificent body" is in its prime and probably controls the most females.
No, Fredo- it is you that is wrong. Massachusetts vs EPA was a lawsuit brought by MA and a handful of other blue states that sued to force the EPA to regulate greenhouse gases everywhere inside the borders of The United States.
They petitioned the EPA to regulate greenhouse gases under the Clean Air Act. Twist it however you want.
This bill also prohibits raising animals for food. So no slaughtering of cows, sheep, pigs, chicken, ect, ect.
no the Indians get fewer restrictions because traditional casinos fund the Dems
And the non-Indian casino industry funds the Republicans. Which do you think has more money to spend?
This bill also prohibits raising animals for food. So no slaughtering of cows, sheep, pigs, chicken, ect, ect.
It is not a bill. It is a ballot initiative which anyone who gets 1000 people to sign a petition can get on the ballot. Frankly, considering the low bar, I'm surprised that Oregon doesn't have pages and pages of initiatives every election.
@FF: That is the exact opposite of reality. An animal with "the biggest antlers or most magnificent body" is in its prime and probably controls the most females.
They MANAGE populations today. The king of the hill eventually gets pushed off by a younger male, then the trophy permit is issued. Hunters may pay 10x or more for a trophy permit. Do a little research before you mouth off and rehash old-timey pre-WW2 practices.
As I wrote, read a bit of Ron Spomer's work. He's also anti-lead bullets. He prefers pure copper to avoid meat contamination. "Conservative" conservation-oriented hunters of the Teddy Roosevelt era (i.e., the man of "teddy bears") invented population management and hunting licenses because they saw massive issues in unregulated hunting. As such, hunters saved both deer and wild duck populations in the USA.
Then Africa came later.
Do a tiny little bit of research. Your ignorance is horrific.
"It is a ballot initiative which anyone who gets 1000 people to sign a petition can get on the ballot."
Wrong. That just starts the process. "For a statutory initiative, valid signatures totaling at least 6% of the total votes cast for governor at the last election is required."
They needed 117k. They submitted 124k to the SOS for validation.
Don't forget Cecil the Lion. Who could have known he would die at the hands of a dentist from Minnesota. Fate is unpredictable.
Cecil the Lion became an issue because he was used to pay the bills for photo safaris and, then, with a hunting safari.
Example of a 2026 hunting safari source:
https://www.jacadatravel.com/africa/travel-guides/the-best-private-game-reserves-conservancies-in-africa/
"conventional livestock production"
So no more fresh dairy or eggs. Goodbye beef and sheep ranching in Eastern Oregon. And salmon farms.
This will crush Oregon's economy. Far worse than Spotted Owl.
Freder desperately trying to pretend this is just a small number of kooks, and don't stigmitize all leftists like this. But of course he and all the rest claim that Westboro Baptist reflects all Christians. And that Moose hat guy on Jan 6 is every MAGA person alive.
So sauce for the goose, Freder. This is your people, this is what you want.
Live trap the pests and then release them in liberal gated communities.
It's an incredibly clear ninth amendment violation.
"Gary Francione and Anna Charlton, a firebrand animal rights couple who teach law at Rutgers University... have advocated for the abolition of pet ownership. “Domesticated animals are completely dependent on humans, who control every aspect of their lives,” they wrote in a provocative essay for Aeon in 2016. “Unlike human children, who will one day become autonomous, non-humans never will. That is the entire point of domestication — we want domesticated animals to depend on us. They remain perpetually in a netherworld of vulnerability, dependent on us for everything that is of relevance to them.”..."
This is laughable for a variety of reasons.
I'll work my way back through the quote.
Leftists want the proles to 'remain perpetually in a netherworld of vulnerability, dependent on us for everything..." - hence the need to regulate pet ownership out of existence.
“Unlike human children, who will one day become autonomous,"
Who needs autonomy when the State is your Mom, your Dad, and your provider? Now hush, and eat your gruel.
“Domesticated animals are completely dependent on humans, who control every aspect of their lives,” Anyone who's kept cats knows that the opposite is true. My cat-mom older sis would like a word. To a dog, sure, you're the owner, but to a cat, you're staff.
Kinda hope this passes. I see Idaho picking up Eastern Oregon counties and gaining at lease one electoral vote at Oregon’s expense. But my annual goose hunt in Burns will be down the tubes.
Of course, it will be soundly defeated.
No. It won't. It MAY go down, but it's going to be far closer than you think. The I-5 corridor is filled to the gunwales with leftist morons and do-gooders just like you.
"They petitioned the EPA to regulate greenhouse gases under the Clean Air Act. Twist it however you want."
Which would have applied to all 50 states, directly contradicting your claim that Massachusetts was only trying to regulate carbon emissions for itself.
Post a Comment
Please use the comments forum to respond to the post. Don't fight with each other. Be substantive... or interesting... or funny. Comments should go up immediately... unless you're commenting on a post older than 4 days. Then you have to wait for us to moderate you through. It's also possible to get shunted into spam by the machine. We try to keep an eye on that and release the miscaught good stuff. We do delete some comments, but not for viewpoint... for bad faith. Also: DON'T USE ITALICS.