There's also this from Shani Silver, 43, host of "A Single Serving Podcast": "[A]s millennials, we got to the age where we were promised all these things would happen, and they never did.... [We] worked on ourselves throughout our lives to become the desirable partners we were told to become... But the men didn’t rise along with us. They’ve stagnated. There are imbalances in domestic labor responsibilities, emotional labor responsibilities, in running a household... If you marry a man you’re settling for, I don’t see a lot of relationship longevity."
March 29, 2026
"I can’t think of one person in a relationship that I would want for myself. I’ve done it before and prefer focusing on me and my own needs."
Says a 33-year-old Toronto woman, quoted at the beginning of a NYT article called "Why Marriage, for So Many, Is Less Appealing Than Ever/From Gen Z to Gen X, a pause in the march to the altar, or a decision to skip it altogether, is becoming more common."
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103 comments:
It takes two to tango. While lots of men are incapable of being worthy partners, many women are completely toxic and no self-respecting man wants anything to do with them.
Yep. It's all men's fault. JFC
Google Chris Rock and Big Piece of Chicken. The basic theme is a man will do about anything and put up with about anything for his family if just gets just small bit of appreciation…aka the big piece of chicken at dinner.
I propose the following conjecture: The amount of unhappiness in the world is a constant.
“ I propose the following conjecture: The amount of unhappiness in the world is a constant.”
My conjecture is happiness is not the default setting of the happy-sad continuum—it is contentment. Happiness, like sadness, comes and goes. If you think you have to be happy all the time you are setting yourself up for an impossible expectation.
Enjoy the happy times as a gift, not an expectation.
TosaGuy said...
"Google Chris Rock and Big Piece of Chicken. The basic theme is a man will do about anything and put up with about anything for his family if just gets just small bit of appreciation…aka the big piece of chicken at dinner."
I just listened to Adam Carolla go on a long rant about this. They are both not wrong.
I evolved to cohabitate with AI, but then I met the AI of my dreams.
If Chris Rock is so right why did he cheat multiple times on his wife?
What is with the NYT that it must seek out the most miserable, dislikeable people to feature?
It's not him, it's you. It's not her, it's you. Selfie is such a lonely orientation.
All these women loudly proclaiming their joy at being alone and unmarried. They seem to have a great need for an audience. Methinks they proclaim a little too loudly.
Eva Marie said...
"If Chris Rock is so right why did he cheat multiple times on his wife?"
She didn't give him the Big Piece of Chicken.
NYeT! Never! Gen-Why?
Diversity (i.e. bloc ideologies) breeds adversity. Abort. Sequester the conception... and have a guy in time.
--- "If you marry a man you’re settling for, I don’t see a lot of relationship longevity."
Wait til you feel the longevity of being alone at 45, 55, 65, and 75. A beautiful woman of my acquaintance with a singing voice to match Laura Nyro (and a real balabusta, besides) turned down a marriage offer from a man when they were in their 20s because he probably would have wanted her to go back to his native European country. She never got another one she considered adequate, or from someone for whom she had similar feelings. It breaks my heart to hear her talk of how lonely she is now, a couple decades later. What a mistake she made, to use her own words.
People like this should have no role in selecting leaders.
They are selfish narcissistic takers and will elect people who make them feel good, not who is best for society.
this again.
Equal and complementary. Go forth and reconcile. Gen-I do.
Life is better shared.
I'm 65 and divorced. I have a decent social life, but every woman my age seems to be afflicted with TDS. No thanks!
Her “needs” no doubt include consuming oil based products. Are the men on the platforms in the Gulf of Mexico not rising enough with her? Her entire physical existent rests in the backs of men she apparently disdains.
The younger ones not so much.
So, I married a NYeT man. A WaPout woman.
Dear Grok, YMe?
It begins with Genesis, progresses with Perplexity, then garners an Open AI to Alexa.
For the truly, rigorously, intolerant, a loving relationship with another human is nearly impossible. (Also, using the term “emotional labor” unironically is disqualifying).
Her “needs” no doubt include consuming oil based products. Are the men on the platforms in the Gulf of Mexico not rising enough with her? Her entire physical existent sits on the backs of men she apparently disdains.
“Life is better shared.”
Yes, men can’t stop themselves from sharing.
To paraphrase Althouse in the Chavez thread above, "the NYT takes the female point of view without noticing."
She apparently missed this instance.
The best part of my FWB relationship is that neither of us wants to marry the other. Well, that, and the sex. Today is her 29th birthday and we have been together, off and on, for eight years. Her attempts at finding a good BF have failed (I step away during those times) and I will never marry again.
“She never got another one she considered adequate, or from someone for whom she had similar feelings. It breaks my heart to hear her talk of how lonely she is now, a couple decades later. What a mistake she made, to use her own words.”’
Not only a great singer, but also a great actor. Well played.
Her solitude is a personal choice. Made by other people.
"If you marry a man you’re settling for, I don’t see a lot of relationship longevity."
If a man marries a woman he's settling for, the outcome is likely pretty much the same.
And in either case, the woman gets the house and kids, and a monthly alimony check.
Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get.
“Me, me, me,” resonates with AWFLs and other lefties. You know, the ones who will never let Trump MAGA.
Men will enjoy this change most as they get the variety they want without expectation of commitment they don't. Women will be devalued since they only offer sex. Pretty much like prostitutes, but cheaper. Men will no longer have to get wealthy to attract women. They can just go to the gym.
Maybe we are seeing that much of marriage was just to support women and children, but now women can support themselves, and what children? Wedding planners and divorce attorneys most affected.
Women gotta get married and have 2.1 kids on average or society wont function. Maybe we need to redesign society to ensure that, instead of pushing young women to become Engineers and office workers. An intelligent woman who's had 2 kids and provided them a good upbringing has done more for the world than all the Female Generals and Admirals combined.
“ What is with the NYT that it must seek out the most miserable, dislikeable people to feature?”
Because those are their readers.
As a Toronto native, I can assure you that the 33 year old Toronto woman would be furious at the way the article, in effect, considers her to be a typical American. Toronto millennial single-by-choice women are fanatical "Elbows Up" types.
the ones who take it seriously,
The culture, mostly run by women and their sensitivities for the last generation or so, have talked themselves out of appreciating men, despite the obvious dependence on them for nearly everything of real value. They still need and want those things, but they don't want to see the sausage being made.
"If you marry a man you’re settling for, I don’t see a lot of relationship longevity."
This is more of the unreasonable expectations of a lot of women these days. They are maybe a 7, and will only marry a 9 or 10. But with all the other 7s out there, the 10 guys are able to just get sex out of a relationship, and don’t need to settle down with one woman for that. Compounding that - more sexual partners for a woman decreases her value in the mating market. Making things worse, most women’s attractiveness decreases over time, and esp when compared to many/most men.
In the past, women were more willing to settle for a lesser ranked or attractive guy, because she had a better idea of her realistic value on the dating market. And probably fewer mating choices.
My partner eventually settled for me. She was still a 10, when we met, when she was in her early 40s. I just hung in there for a long time. When I was moving around the country, we would talk every day on the phone. Hanging up, I would always tell her that I loved her. After better than a year, she told me the same thing. I knew, at that point that I had won, though it took several more years to firm it up. As any couple, we have had our ups and downs. But we mostly do well together. And more than a quarter century together now.
she will ultimately be alone, hope she understands that,
The feminist belief that men are not only responsible for the emotional state of men, but of women as well.
Oh, the irony.
"[A]s millennials, we got to the age where we were promised all these things would happen, and they never did...."
I think this is the more noteworthy part rather than the lament on the quality of men. Lots of younger people seem to have been taught that relationships and marriage will just happen and that all they need to do was focus on career and building up their own life. But culturally we should be teaching young people that your relationship, your marriage, is of primary, not secondary importance in your life. The longer a person delays, the more that person builds up the complexity of their own single life, the harder it is to find another person that can slot into it.
I've never understood what women see in men sexually, although I understand gay men's sexual attraction to men. I always thought that women were not really sexually attracted like men are, but were acting out of some redirected attraction to their strength/provider/protector role. This is either true, or women just don't generally talk about the specifics of their physical attraction. I feel like once the provider role is gone, women have much less attraction to men.
You know what? I just don't understand women at all. I know what makes them happy, or at least what used to, but I'm not sure why.
Is Shani Silver hardwired for complaining? Has she really "worked on herself throughout her life" to become a desireable partner? She might be right, but she also might be deceiving herself. What would the men she's been involved with or an impartial observer say about her claim?
Maybe an observer could suggest that perhaps the "imbalance in responsibilities" could give her the upper hand in the relationship. There must be guys who would accept that -- but perhaps for her that would be "settling."
She is angry that a couple generations of hating men, feminizing boys, has resulted in men not 'rising up' to her level.
She is shocked that her 'working on herself' didn't change thousands of years of human interaction.
Can she define what a woman is?
” Life is better shared.”
Exactly. Together, we have 4 kids, 7 grandkids, and now a great grandson. The oldest grandson (and father of the great grandson) moved in here last week. It’s enjoyable. She talks to her daughter at least daily, and she takes care of our pets when we leave town, and at least once a week brings something she cooked over and drops it off.
Then I see TV shows like “Sluts In the City” and “Fiends”, revolving around the frantic singles dating scene. Or “Golden Girls” who try to replace their men with other women. All very depressing.
If you need to focus all your attention and energy on your own needs, you must be really needy. I mean, don't you get those needs handled pretty quick with your full attention on it. When all your needs are satisfied, then what? Being single can feel really good and be very peaceful, but you do spend a lot of time just killing time and making up new needs.
She's been working on herself - for herself.
I'm sometimes told that men are simple minded--with a variant "interested in only one thing" etc. That's the protofeminist critique. Well maybe we are--I never worried about "rising" to women's expectations. What they saw is what they got. And if what they saw wasn't good enough, well that's on them. Fortunately I fooled someone sixty plus years ago and am still married to her. Our various strengths complement each other.
Generation-Me
#MeOnly
Most people are selfish and only think of themselves. Some people are more selfish than others. Two extremely selfish people cannot survive in a marriage.
The biggest mistake I made in my life was marrying my ex wife. Fucked up my entire life. Dumbest thing I've ever done.
"If you marry a man you’re settling for, I don’t see a lot of relationship longevity."
Hoe Math: They're figuring it out.
These are sour grape losers trying to justify their miserable lives.
My grandson took his first unaided steps Yesterday. Captured on video by my son-in-law. Walking to his Mom.
My daughter's life is absolutely nothing like the misery these women seem to believe.
These women don't understand what they are missing.
These women need to read Joan Didion’s White Album essay. There’s no narrative arc to your life (except maybe one you create in hindsight), and good things don’t just materialize. You work towards them. Working on yourself doesn’t make you marriageable, or even pleasant.
There seems to be a new narrative of "immature" men, of men not "doing the work" to explain the 60 year decline in marriage that just now seems to be a "crisis". An epidemic of "duds"
"the share of dependable men (dads, not duds) may not have increased". Of course, they never consider that many men may not be trying to find a wife, or feel if they have the job stability to take on the cost of children.
"In the US, the birth rate plummeted some time ago, owing to women’s greater ability to marry later, get more education, and obtain more job experience before marriage.[i.e., modernity] Because women had more autonomy, they had more options; and because the relative earnings of college-educated workers greatly increased, their options became more valuable. Meanwhile, the share of dependable men (dads, not duds) may not have increased, implying that the opportunity cost of children may have risen for more-educated women."
---Claudia Goldin, 'Why Fertility Has Declined Everywhere', Feb 13, 2026
Percentages of Mid-Life Never Married Adults, 1900-2021
In 1900, the percentage of mid-life never married adults was 16.3%, dropping by over half to 7.1% in 1970.
Since 1970, the percentage of never married mid-life adults increased rapidly to 16.8% in 2000--a two-fold increase within 30 years.
Over the past two decades, the share of never married mid-life adults steadily increased, reaching 29.1% in 2021.
Overall, since 1970, the percentage of never married middle-aged adults increased by over 300%. .<.i>
The bar on male conduct is so low, that when a male takes a dump with a closed door, it's being looked at as an accomplishment.
I blame the American bathroom joke culture for this. Maybe try raising your kids refraining from the toilet humor as you ingest your food. It's called manners.
Working on yourself doesn’t make you marriageable, or even pleasant.
A curriculum vitae, perhaps with references, may get you the interview, and marriage, but performance is invariably evaluuated as a joint effort.
test
Women are less inclined than men to select a partner they believe is beneath their status, so...
"because the relative earnings of college-educated women greatly increased, their options became more limited"
"..I’ve done it before and prefer focusing on me and my own needs." Says a 33-year-old Toronto woman..
so!
it's NOT that she couldn't imagine getting married..
it's that she WAS married, and failed at it.
That is kinda a different thing.
"[A]s millennials, we got to the age where we were promised all these things would happen, and they never did...."
Considering that a whole generation of girls have been taught to hate and fear men, this is not surprising.
Looking for a fight over who’s going to do the dishes.
Absolute poison.
“ I've never understood what women see in men sexually, although I understand gay men's sexual attraction to men. I always thought that women were not really sexually attracted like men are, but were acting out of some redirected attraction to their strength/provider/protector role. This is either true, or women just don't generally talk about the specifics of their physical attraction. I feel like once the provider role is gone, women have much less attraction to men.”
I do know what my partner likes physically in a man: big (>=6’2”), nice pecs. Nice butt (esp a bubble butt). Loves dimples. Self confidence. It’s funny. I am supposed to appreciate her taste in men. But when I point out women I like, she critics them.
And, yes, she loves sex.she and her ex had it Tuesday and Saturday nights. Period. One time, she showed up at his business in her floor length mink, and nothing else. Even that wasn’t enough. Tuesday and Saturday nights, only. You hear about maintenance sex - and that is how he saw it. Now, after they split up, after 10 years of marriage, he was like a rabbit in heat. Unfortunately for him, she a one guy woman, and she was involved with me.
"But the men didn’t rise along with us."
Men not getting into college, having issues. Women hardest hit.
“These women don't understand what they are missing.“
Sad and spot on. Watching the joy expressed on the faces of my wife, our daughter and our daughter-in-law when they are around the grandkids, it saddens me to think some women will never enjoy the experience, by choice or not.
What women never seem to 'get' is that men knowingly settle the moment they commit.
The woman will NOT be more beautiful on an objective scale in twenty-five years. This is about the best she will ever be, and it ain't gonna be all that long like this.
On a subjective scale, sure: she is more beautiful now, thirty-years later, blah blah -- that is Love talking.
But she ain't being scooped away at that point by twenty-two-year-old Fabio unless there is money involved.
The key is: the Man commits anyway.
Because he sees what is inside her. Knowing the external Beauty ain't forever.
You know: Love.
So many women of today do not comprehend what they so easily throw away.
I am Laslo.
"I can’t think of one person in a relationship that I would want for myself. I’ve done it before and prefer focusing on me and my own needs."
I'm glad no man will ever have to depend on her, or waste his time taking care of her
But the men didn’t rise along with us. They’ve stagnated. There are imbalances in domestic labor responsibilities, emotional labor responsibilities, in running a household... If you marry a man you’re settling for, I don’t see a lot of relationship longevity."
Really? You women all work as hard as men do? you all take the shit jobs that men take? Oh, "that's different" is it?
I'm sorry you were lied to, and I'm sorry you've been to stupid to figure it out. Marriage, relationship, is about joining asymmetries. It's about joining differences.
It's not about everyone doing the exact same fucking thing.
It wasn't all that long ago that, in many societies, there were places like e.g. convents where women (and men) who didn't want to marry could go and have a purpose, companionship, and a community to take care of them when they got old and feeble.
With so many people now remaining single, it is perhaps time that we re-visit creating such communities again. The big problem is, of course, these people are single because they want to live life according to their own wishes, and the communities of old were about lives of service, screw your "wishes". It's "poverty, chastity, and OBEDIENCE", Bee-yatch! Many of the authors who wrote in days of yore while living in church communities affirmed that obedience was the most difficult vow of the lot.
bagoh20 said...
If you need to focus all your attention and energy on your own needs, you must be really needy.
Thread winner
So, not the gay divorce. Learn to dance!
Their bench is not very impressive, no?
http://youtube.com/post/UgkxRsHjX7jNewCTMC_9pd8UqjtBFEWzrozs?si=3q9vY6qv5xD50-L7
@Gusty Winds: "...The biggest mistake I made in my life was marrying my ex wife. F*cked up my entire life. Dumbest thing I've ever done...."
Yeah, well, true - at a minimum, you probably should have known better by then.
Everybody else is an asshole. - Shani Silver
I've been married for 30 years, we split up very acrimoniously 14 years ago, but we're still married, and still love each other. We have two lovely sons, and I wouldn't be shocked if we end up back together eventually. Probably not, but one never knows. I suspect that I am too old and set in my ways to adapt to living with another person again.
Interesting post. Today my wife and I are celebrating our 57th anniversary.
“Considering that a whole generation of girls have been taught to hate and fear men, this is not surprising.“
Chris Rock had 2 daughters with his (ex)wife - the one he cheated on. Whatever view of men his now grown daughters have is kind of on him.
I have not been out of the dating pool so long that I can’t say with confidence that the basic equation has not changed—quality people don’t have too much trouble finding other quality people. If you can’t find anyone decent to date you, the problem is not them, it is you.
I’m curious what those needs are. I mean, how much time can you spend focused on your “needs?” Doesn’t that get kind of boring?
"But the men didn’t rise along with us. They’ve stagnated."
Yes, that's what happened. And the bit about "emotional labor"? How much expenditure of emotional labor is involved in listening to women tell us about their "emotional labor."
My actual response to Casablanca was "no way is she worth all of the trouble the men in the movie went through for her." Which is a lot different than my reaction the last time I saw it many years ago. Maybe the culture has changed, or maybe it's just me, but I don't think it's just me.
Long ago I suggested to a recent college grad that her disdain of men and her inability to get and hold a good job were going to collide, and that the result would be that she would become dependent on some man.
She rejected this idea, but has not come up with an alternative in the subsequent 15 years.
Today my wife and I are celebrating our 57th anniversary.
Congratulations! Forevermore.
Congratulations, William50!
@YoungHegelian they have those communities, they are called Boston and NYC.
"The feminist movement died a millisecond after impact" - Lucifer's Hammer
In solitude, the trumpets of solitude are not of another solitude resounding
Why do the millennials quoted by media ALWAYS use some variation of "we were promised all these things . . ."? It's usually about education and career stuff ("...we were promised that if we did our homework we would be given high-paying jobs in prestige industries"), but now is apparently extending to relationships.
First of all, I don't believe this is true. I am GenX and absolutely NO ONE promised me these kinds of things. In fact, it was exactly the opposite: "How are you going to support yourself with an English degree?" "Are you a good enough musician to make a living?" "There are hundreds and hundreds of people trying for very record-producer jobs."
But even IF the adults in these millennials' lives just spent their days wandering around aimlessly making promises they couldn't keep, HOW did that somehow FORCE you to BELIEVE those stupid promises?
Many of my most beloved former students are millennials, and I don't think they talk like this, so it is probably just media-created parrot-talk, but if it isn't, what the hell? How is it possible that we in GenX knew (correctly, it turned out) that we'd have to scratch and grind and would still have a lower standard of living than the previous generation, but the generation AFTER us thought they were getting unlimited free cotton candy and root beer floats for turning in their homework on time?
Tim,
She never was worth it.
Prof, the answer is that Millennials had Boomer parents. The Worst Generation
A couple of thoughts this am
Prof Drout, Gen Xer here as well, and while I don't discount your personal experience with Millennials I think we need to note that they grew up in a different time than we did. Our formative years were during the economic upheaval of the 1970s. Millennials largely grew up in the post-Cold War boom so I can see many not having the same perspective on the current crisis era.
Also, probably worth noting that every failed relationship you have has a certain common factor...
Prof. M. Drout said...
Why do the millennials quoted by media ALWAYS use some variation of "we were promised all these things . . ."? It's usually about education and career stuff ("...we were promised that if we did our homework we would be given high-paying jobs in prestige industries"), but now is apparently extending to relationships.
First of all, I don't believe this is true. I am GenX and absolutely NO ONE promised me these kinds of things. In fact, it was exactly the opposite: "How are you going to support yourself with an English degree?" "Are you a good enough musician to make a living?" "There are hundreds and hundreds of people trying for very record-producer jobs."
What they were told was that if they learned math / sciences and went into tech, there would always be good paying jobs.
What's the reality?
1: Even when they get good grades, they're often not actually learning anything. See posts about UCSD remedial math, esp the part about kids with A's from AP math who are in teh remedial math class, because they got those As without learning, or being taught, anything
2: Even when they did acquire the skills, tech is hiring Indians on H-1B visas, rather than Americans.
#1 comes from "revision to the mean" (smart parents often have dumb kids) and "college degree is a union card to a good future", which meant all those upper middle class parents weren't going to accept their schools doing anything that keeps Johny from getting that union card, regardless of the fact that Johny's IQ is 110 on a good day, and he has no business being in college
Re. Chris Rock and Adam Carolla, Bill Burr has a bit along the same theme. I don't recall exactly how it goes, but the gist is that if a man is working hard in the yard, his significant other comes out and gives him an unsolicited, hand-made sandwich and a cold drink, he will remember that sandwich and be ready to work for her forever. For a lot of men, it really doesn't take much more than that.
I had a friend like the quoted person. She's probably pushing 50 now, single, I never knew her to have any sort of steady relationship. Because there were absolutely no men that stacked up. One or two dates and she'd find something to complain about. Also went and got a master's in a rather esoteric field, but then was unable to find a job in it.
I mean, Sex and the City. It's right there. Even those that bunch was Gen X, they were setting the mode.
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