"Rats and feral dogs flourished in their place, spreading diseases, including rabies. As a result, the human death toll rose significantly. And further to that, Schama adds, an ancient cultural ritual risks being lost. Zoroastrians, no longer able to perform their traditional 'sky burials' — in which corpses are carried to a 'tower of silence' to be picked clean by vultures — are forced to consider cremation instead.
"'What are they, these creatures, two-limbed like us and yet nothing like us at all?' he wonders. 'Human culture is arranged around the perfection of the human,' he says. 'We are seen as God’s greatest works. But one thing we have not been able to do is fly.' Our fascination with birds, he suggests, 'is based around a sort of envy.' Because what we call flying is not really that, it’s just 'sitting in a metal tube with the blinds shut looking at old movies.' It is not about the glorious freedom that we dream of, about the transcendence we desire, the celestial state that we yearn for. That freedom of spirit will always elude us.'"
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59 comments:
"to be picked clean by vultures"
Althouse finds and reads the weirdest stuff.
People who sit in metal tubes with movies on don’t want to fly, they just want to go from place to place in the least possible time. People who want to fly take the time, trouble and expense to become pilots. That we can even think about doing this is what makes us God’s greatest work.
What are they, these creatures, two-limbed like us and yet nothing like us at all?' he wonders
…fresh off an audit I’m wondering what kind if creature Simon is…
It is not about the glorious freedom that we dream of, about the transcendence we desire, the celestial state that we yearn for. That freedom of spirit will always elude us
Perhaps a taller cliff and flapping your arms faster? I kid…but yes there are ways to experience flight, or gliding at least. Parasail, skydive, hang glider, glider, those new drone vehicles…have some engagement…
Simon Schama sounds kind of a gasbag, honestly. Being an airline passenger is not flying (though probably as close as Schama will ever get to it). Talk to the two guys up front actually flying the plane. Have a word with a fighter pilot or a crop-duster. But Simon Schama? His whingeing tells you more about his own limitations than about flying / aviation.
…just off a recent kiwi safari I can attest that flight eludes many birds, too…
Schama volat
Well, of course it's rooted in envy, you dummy. They can fly. There are few things more captivating and thrilling, speaking as someone that was an early hang-gliding dabbler in the early 80's, when Rogallo wings were first making their appearance.
As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly.
Grok - "Zoroastrianism is experiencing a modest, largely symbolic and cultural revival of interest in Iran, particularly amid ongoing political unrest, widespread disillusionment with the Islamic Republic, and a surge in protests (including the major wave starting late 2025 into 2026). However, this is not a large-scale religious revival in terms of actual conversions or dramatic population growth among practicing Zoroastrians."
For fashionable ladies hats - whole bird species were eliminated in the southern part of the US. I think that is downright pathetic.
Well, turkey vultures seem to be doing well in southern Wisconsin, I see them all the time.
Simon Schama is a highly credentialed dope.
Right now I’m looking at a couple of dozen small birds flitting around my bird feeder. I love the crazy little bastards, but they remind me more of homeless people queuing up outside the Union Gospel Mission than any yearning in my soul.
As for a dearth of birds, I’m thinking Schama pulled that out of his ass (or an eco-alarmist website, which is the same thing). There is no living thing so visibly ubiquitous. Most people just aren’t paying attention.
tcrosse, wild turkeys do fly. The Thanksgiving beast cannot.
"Well, of course it's rooted in envy, you dummy. They can fly."
Would you rather have wings and be able to fly or have arms with hands?
The birds would envy us... if they had enough brain to care.
Oh, shit! Ubiquitous was used in the quote! My bad.
I don’t dislike Schama, though. Dead Certainties is one of my favorite books. Shame he’s being a clown here.
"The bird that has eaten flies away".
English subtitle version from "Il Postino".
If you want to fly, get some time in a Christen Eagle or a Schempp-Hirth Ventus.
Gee, sad--the vulture population is down.
"Zoroastrians, no longer able to perform their traditional “sky burials” — in which corpses are carried to a “tower of silence” to be picked clean by vultures — are forced to consider cremation instead."
You hate to see the old traditions dying out. Such a shame.
Also. Speaking of traditions.
Man, this is a tough crowd. Even world renowned historians take it on the chin here. No one gets out of Althouse unscathed.
I do love watching birds since I moved back to Florida- about 10 years ago. We have great birds down here. Beautiful and larger than our dog in many cases, which is always fun to watch her negotiate. But other than that, the smaller ones seem to continue to find my car, no matter where it is, just like they did in all the other states I've lived. That is apparently my relationship with birds.
Soloing in a bug-smasher was transcendent. Instant Karma doesn't stick to passengers. The bird as flying dinosaur who survived the Yucatan asteroid impact is an elegant creature.
"Would you rather have wings and be able to fly or have arms with hands?"
Be a bat. Best of both worlds.
BTW - are bats xrafstar or gospand?
As far as I know Bago is the only Althousian who has actually "flown." I'll wait to hear his opinion.
“Man doesn’t fly like an eagle, man flies like a bee”
Orwell, iirc
“It is not about the glorious freedom that we dream of, about the transcendence we desire, the celestial state that we yearn for.”
I don’t think being a bird is about anything like that. As for all non-human creatures, it’s mostly about finding something to eat without being eaten. I don’t envy them at all.
“If you want to fly, get some time in a Christen Eagle or a Schempp-Hirth Ventus.”
Or just tie a bunch of weather balloons to a lawn chair. Now *that* looked like fun!
The other day I mowed over a largely desiccated carcass of some creature, about the size of a squirrel or a large bird (not sure how I didn't see it) and it made a sound like I hit a tree root and hurled the carcass into my driveway. Startled the hell out of me.
5 minutes later, I espied with my little eye a vulture there checking it out. A couple of minutes later there were 4 or 5 of them. Another 5 minutes later there was no sign that they or the dead creature had ever been there.
You want to see a turkey vulture? Come down to South Florida and look in the sky. You 'll often see one or two circling within view. They soar in the drafts, looking like beautiful eagles.
"Because what we call flying is not really that, it’s just 'sitting in a metal tube with the blinds shut looking at old movies."
This guy really needs to take a ride in a bug-smasher, or soar in a glider.
No mention of how birds are really government drones used to spy on us. And I thought the "London Times" was a serious newspaper.
Fred Drinkwater said...
If you want to fly, get some time in a Christen Eagle or a Schempp-Hirth Ventus.
Even better, fly in an open canopy Schweitzer 2-22 or 1-26
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/oCb7g6qZfeo/maxresdefault.jpg
"You vultures just envy me! That freedom of spirit will always elude you! " - Jeffrey Toobin
Most people who travel by air don't yearn to fly. Quite the contrary. Airliners are designed to help travelers forget they are flying as much as possible, thus the shutters and the in-flight movies.
Would you trade your hands for wings if it meant you could fly, but you had to subsist on sundried Zoroastrian?
Hoggle the Gyrfalcon
As said above, the guy should take up hang gliding. I did it for over 30 years. In that time I had shared plenty of thermals wing tip to wing tip with a variety soaring birds, from golden eagles to California condors. Mostly redtail hawks. The best experience was with a group of condors. When we drove up to launch that day we came across three condors sitting ground. Startled, they flew away. However, they turned back and took roost on one of the radio towers right next to us. As we set up our gliders the condors just sat there watching us, no more than 10ft. over our heads.
This particular site was know for its convergence, where the morning offshore desert air collides with the sea breeze. The cooler more dense sea breeze dives in below the lighter desert air creating lift. As the day progresses the convergence moves further inland. The idea is to be in the air when the convergence comes through. Timing is everything.
I launched first, but I was too early. I was able to get a little above launch but it was a struggle. When I looked down I noticed that the condors were still sitting on the radio towers. After another 10 minutes or so of struggling to maintain my altitude I watched the condors take off and fly to the west. I decided to follow them. They didn't have to go very far before they started turning circles. I came in right above them, and Bam! I gained about 4,000 ft in a matter of minutes. They marked the convergence for me. So yes, we do have the ability to fly like the birds
Our fascination with birds, he suggests, 'is based around a sort of envy.'
"If you want to be a bird."
Much ado about nothing really. Who cares if the Zoroastrians have to cremate now instead of stinking up the place with carnivorous fucking birds eating their passed away instead? Hygiene is what India needs more than this barbaric practice. The birds will survive elsewhere without human corpses to gnaw on bc they will have to, albeit in fewer numbers, but again, so what? . All cultures and traditions are NOT equal and this one is outmoded as well as retarded to boot. There I said it.
Who wouldn't wish to be a bird that everybody has heard about?
If I were a pretty little bird in the garden....
"As many as 98%..."
So, between 0.1% and 98%. Kinda seems made up to me.
I enjoy taking pictures with my phone, and birds are some of my favorite subjects. Last year, I was coming back to work from lunch and driving through the security gate, which was open; a red-shouldered hawk was perched on the place where we would flash our badges to get the gate to open, had it been closed. I saw the bird up ahead, whipped out my phone and took a picture of it through the windshield. Then I slowly drove up next to it, and it didn't fly off. I took another picture, this time through the side window from about a foot away. The picture was magnificent! I was able to see all of the detail of the feathers, including one feather on its side that was sticking out. It was probably my favorite picture from last year.
Last week, I looked up at one of our palm trees in front of the building, which had died, and noticed that a woodpecker had made a home near the top. However, it appeared to be under new ownership, as a crow was sticking its head out from the hole, which gave me another good picture, as well as the tale to go with it. Crows are very intelligent birds, and this one obviously saw the utility of a hole in the palm tree. While the crow couldn't make the hole, it was smart enough to make use of it.
Ravens are even more intelligent than crows. I saw a couple of them at the zoo in Lansing a couple of years ago. They actually can find sticks and use them as tools.
If the Zoroastrians want to have carrion birds tear their dead relatives apart, it's no skin off my nose.
Just drive past 4-6 of them taking care of a deer Marcus said one the side of a pretty busy street. We don’t even bother with roadkill, they will have it gone in a day for sure.
There is no shortage of vultures out here on the DelMarVa peninsula. They do take care of the deer carcasses, of which there is no shortage either.
Bald Eagles also feed on the deer carcasses. There are many Bald Eagles here.
I was 8 years old when I found out I couldn't fly--I jumped off the garage roof. Fortunately the lawn below made for a soft landing. Still although I live just 7 miles as the crow flies from Los Angeles City Hall, I've occasionally seen a turkey vulture in my suburban neighborhood. We've also got peacocks--or should I say peahens--and parrots--lots of parrots.
Hi John Scott, Perhaps we've flown together. I'm a former H4 member of the Sylmar club at Mt. Kagel. I've had those wonderful experiences too. Hang-gliding is definitely the most exhilarating and fun thing I've ever done. I miss it immensely, and it scared me every one of the hundreds of flights I've taken. I feel blessed to have had that thrill in my life. Absolutely nothing else like it.
Can you imagine how formidable and terrifying something would be the size of a T-Rex with 6 inch teeth and also the vision, agility, and character of a bird? You would never escape him once he saw you.
I've always found schama full of shit. For some reason, he's been the go to guy for TV series and book. Utterly mediocre and full of the conventional Guardian-Independent outlook. Reminds me of Hastings who is been assigned the role of THE military historian.
Anyway, I'm not full of envy for birds. I'd love to have a couple parrots, but my wife is not keen on the idea. Its enough having cats/dogs.
Turkeys definitely are not going extinct. Damn things strut around in spring like they own the joint.
Some bird species possess an unnerving level of confidence. Turkeys, chickens, geese, etc. They attack other animals that could easily kill them (like us) and we run away totally intimidated by an animal with no teeth, no hands, paper thin bones and tiny brains. Be brave. Be the turkey.
Very bright guy, Simon Schama, but somebody has to talk to him about that voice of his.
We have loads of birds in Washington state. Unlike when I went to Portugal in 2024. I was out in the country several times and never saw any birds. (Except storks which are protected.)
Schama's prose is a pleasing purple, but needs more legs.
I just hope that Simon's bird-envy doesn't make him jump out of a window in the hope of flying, and that he will have years ahead of him to swish his way through history for our edification and amusement.
bagoh2o,
I flew from 1984 to 2017. I learned in Santa Barbara so most of my flying buddies were from that area. I flew mostly in SB in the spring, Pine mountain in the summer and Ojai in the fall. The condor story happened from Plowshares. I later hooked up with the Crestline crew on occasion. We would fly from there when there was potential to go over the back into the desert or Blackhawk. Basically, I flew from sites that had the most potential for long XC flights. I have flown Sylmar a number of times (I know Phil and Andy and a few other local pilots) so there is a pretty good chance that we shared a thermal or two.
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