"These dissenters face out, like getaway drivers in a bank robbery ready to make a clean escape.
Some people, myself included,
find the move annoying. William Van Tassel, the manager of driver training programs for AAA... said that perhaps it was because they were following AAA’s updated guidelines.... My own theory is that reversing into a space is a response to the
ambient anxiety in our society, akin to privately noting the exits in a movie theater. In a nation of rampant gun violence, backing in so you can quickly get out provides a sense of security.... [Van Tassel] cited
a 2020 study from the journal Transportation Research that found, among other things, that the pull-in, back-out maneuver had a higher crash risk. Since pedestrians are most likely to be found walking in the major lanes, not in a parking space, it’s safer to back into the area with fewer people.... But I can’t bring myself to join in, and I don’t fully accept the safety argument. Since 2018, new vehicles sold in the United States have been
federally mandated to have backup cameras, which can assist in reversing out of a spot without plowing into someone...."
I'm reading
"Do You Back Into a Parking Spot or Back Out? An exploration of what’s driving a change in America’s parking lots" (NYT).
Those who do back up — is it for safety? Do other people believe it's for safety? As the male author of the NYT article says: "My wife suspects they’re mostly men showing off." Ha ha. That's what I think too. And by the way, I've always been quick to suspect that people are just showing off. I was much worse about that when I was much younger. I can honestly say that when NASA put a man on the moon in 1969, I thought they were showing off. I looked away! The moon landing was a very big thing; backing into a parking space is a very little thing. In things big and small, I am ready to disrespect the achievement as a matter of showing off. A lateral thinker will therefore ask: What's bad about showing off? Where would we be without it?
Posts
148 comments:
I am up and out early enough that I can pull right through, and not have to worry about little things like this.
I do that too when possible. I notice where fire doors too. BFD. Just being careful.
People who question backing in have never driven a work truck or work van. Backing out of a space in a crowded lot is difficult, with limited sight clearance. Driving out is much easier, and safer.
It's a lot easier to back out than to back in. And I'm usually in more of a hurry to get to where I'm parking than to get out.
All the news that's fit to print …
and some that's borderline useless.
…cameras make things easier. Than again so do cross traffic warning systems…
In crowded places with many unpredictable drivers and walkers, I back in. In less congested areas, I just back out.
I back in or pull through so that I can see easier when leaving. Worried about fender-benders, not "gun violence". Fuck's sake.
Didn't see Jimmy's comment before posting mine. It might be different for a truck.
As to the psychological issue, my wife is the sort who always looks for where the fire exits are in a theater or hotel. I never think about it.
My YT feed was recently populated with this tutorial channel that explains how to navigate impossible parking spaces, like when a vehicle is parallel parked in the lane opposite the parking space. Seemingly like magic once unobtainable parking spaces are now available…
I find it easier and faster to back in and pull out or if possible pull thru and I don't give a shit about what other people think or don't think about my parking skills. Mind your own damn business.
I show the front of my Corvette C8 Z51 Hard Top Convertible with the L3 trim in Sea Wolf Gray because I'm showing off. But I seldom, if ever, back in. Instead, I pull into an empty slot and pull forward to it's twin in the next road. Easy in, easy out. If I decide to show off my beautiful, American Muscle Machine from a curside slot, the backup camera makes that kind of parking really simple. So yes, it's all about vanity. For me, at least.
Parking Man is the channel…
With rear-view cameras virtually standard these days, it is simply easier than it used to be to back into a spot. So why wouldn’t you do it?
Backing into a parking slot became a thing when the rear view camera was a routine feature. Its analog is to pull through so the front of the car is facing out when parking lots are so structured to allow this.
At the Kroeger or the Publix I try for a space next to the walkway that leads to the door so you fossils don’t run over me walking to the store…
Maybe there is underlying culture there, about being annoyed by people "showing off"? Is this some Northern Euro/Scandi thing?
It certainly isn't a Latin thing.
It seems the article just assumes that people are backing in, rather than pulling in and continuing through to the far space? The latter minimizes the number of times that the car is put into reverse.
I was raised in the mountains of Arizona, which has the largest ponderosa pine forest in the country. This is a species adapted to dry conditions, and the forests are very overgrown following the clear-cutting of the 19th and early 20th centuries. We are prone to having horrific, fast moving forest fires. At our home in the pines, my father and grandfather enforced the backing-in rule in case a sudden evacuation would ever be necessary.
For thirty-five years of work I parked in a very cramped parking garage in which we were required to park facing out. I would go in and out several times a day. For many years I drove either a full-size SUV or a dual cab pickup truck. No back-up camera.
Also have owned small boats which require backing up with a trailer to launch and pull out.
I can show off with the best of them.
My Defender has the old school side open door so backing in isn’t a good option if I want rear access.
One time at airport pickup I pulled up to the curb and before I could climb out and open the back this total doosh pulled up a few inches from my rear bumper. That doosh was Senator Warnock’s driver. Seems right…
I always back in to a parking space, or pull forward into a space in a large parking lot (like at a supermarket) so that I am facing out. I drive a Chevy Silverado pickup truck and my previous vehicle was a truck as well, so backing in has been a thing for me going on a decade or more. If you pull into a parking space and then the lot fills up while you're parked, it can be tricky to get the truck out. My current truck has a backup cam with an assist guide on it that makes it super easy to back in to a parking space. Honestly, I think the prevalence of backup cams in vehicles is the primary reason so many people back in to spaces these days.
I never learned to throw a football or back up a trailer 🙁
>>"My wife suspects they’re mostly men showing off." Ha ha. That's what I think too.<<
Showing off what, exactly? Is backing into a parking spot supposed to be particularly challenging or something? It is much easier than the backing in that one does in parallel parking against the curb and that isn't a particularly difficult task, especially with a back-up camera - which I don't have.
I recall a day when I pulled forward into the next row at costco. Yes - it does make it easier to exit. (duh)
went in for all the big items: TP, paper towels, big vats of vinegar and toothpaste.. etc..
then I rolled out into the lot and realized my tail gate was facing the wrong way. dang.
first world problems.
It's not just that there's a backup camera, it's the lines and arcs on the backup camera display that allow you to center the car in the space perfectly parallel. Pulling IN to a space, you don't have that display, and people far too often approach at a shallow angle where the car isn't parallel and/or one side or the other is too close to a neighboring vehicle.
Other than firemen and paramedics, I don't think many people are backing into spaces for ease or speed of egress.
I remember when they changed the policy at work to require backing in. The ostensible reason was for safety, so that in an emergency, the plant could be evacuated more quickly and safely. It did turn out to be a better method for people exiting at shift change, and it is easy to get used to, so we had no major complaints. But we sure made fun of corporate over it.
We got Tang from the moon landing.
And we really did land on the moon!
Arriving at a space tends to give you better vantage of your surroundings in 360 degrees as you approach the parking space.
Leaving is usually preceded by a delay to get in the car and get it started, etc., which leaves you with a delayed and much more narrow situational awareness of what's going on around you (both pedestrians and cars) as you back out.
Backing into a space in a crowded lot, however, can mean you have to avoid cars on both sides and in the rear for the duration of you backup; whereas backing out into the open is easier on the sides and corners, but can hide approaching pedestrians and cars.
Personally, I like to do an 18-point turn to back into one of those 45 degree angles spaces meant (in part) to prevent you from backing in. Just to piss people off before I walk to the store in my pajamas and slippers.
There are good reasons all cars have white back-up warning lights! If you’re parked at an angle and not in a large and easily-seen truck, you increase the risk of collision with an oncoming auto that has no warning you are about to exit from the parking spot.
I've been backing into parking spaces for decades, after 3 or 4 times inattentive drivers ploughed into me and I could not see them coming because I was backing out. The majority of parking lot accidents occur in reverse, but few of them when backing in.
Eventually I got pretty good at backing a semi full of my veggies into tight slots at the wholesaler's dock, so I don't even think about it these days.
When backing IN you've got a very good idea what's behind you. Backing out ... that's not the case.
In CO - there is no police presence on the roads anymore. The corrupt dems defunded and demoralized the police - AND because CO is an official Democratic party sanctuary state for illegals - the corrupt dems have given drivers licenses to illegals. And these illegals do not obey laws or read traffic signs, and they are killing legal citizens on our roads.
People drive live a-holes. Esp. running red lights.
My neighbor likes to ride his bike around town and he was just struck by a car in a crosswalk. Serious injuries occurred. Driver at fault.
My wife joined me in the "parking backerupers club" when we got a car with a camera. She could now backup safely into the parking spot.
The key thing is you want to drive out have full vision of the parking lot. Backing up out of the parking spot gives you limited vision, even with a car. Of course, the best situtation is when you can pull into the next parking spot and then be able to drive out head first.
I started backing up into my spot, after I was hit by an idiot who was going in reverse at full speed. My insurance guy said i would have to pay full damages because its up to the person backing out to make sure the way is clear. Later, it became "He has to pay because he was backing up". but ever since then, I've driven out head first, with my eyes wide open.
I always enjoy seeing that one spot open in the aisle and as I go to turn in someone is pulling forward from the other aisle. Search continues…….
The bad thing about people backing up is some cant do it right even with a camera. Its annoying to have to wait a whole minute while someone backs in several times before they get it right.
I don’t think it’s about the speed of the getaway, I think it’s mostly the trade off between reversing into a smaller area but one which is not full of cars and pedestrians zipping about, against reversing into a big space through which other cars are zipping and in which pedestrians are moving about oblivious to their danger. The other consideration is that cars with front wheel drive use the rear axle as the pivot, so you have more control getting into a tight space when reversing.
I usually drive in forwards if it’s a big deserted lot with hardly any pedestrians. But in a shopping lot with pedestrian traffic, or going into a tight space, I reverse in.
Someone will explain why women cant Parallel park or back up into a parking spot on the first try. i guess their brains are too small.
Depends on the parking lot.
In many parking spots, the trunk isn't accessible if you back in. The backup camera also gives a better view, as the driver is set back from the front of the car, but the camera is right at the rear.
“I can honestly say that when NASA put a man on the moon in 1969, I thought they were showing off. I looked away!”
Well…that’s just sad. Sometimes the things people show off are worth seeing. That’s what the Olympics are all about.
I always pull into spaces, but I don’t mind if people back in as long as they know how to do it. Too many people don’t, and have to do several iterations of backing and forthing before they get it just right. Those giant pickup trucks are the worst for this. Parking lots are usually designed for passenger vehicles, not farm implements.
A couple of observation:
1. These are guys who go to car shows/cruise-ins. Don't go to show off your car unless you know how to back in.
2. Modern cars/trucks have backup cameras and distance warnings. Makes backing in easier than backing out of a parking space where you can't see traffic in the lane you're backing into.
3. When you back into a spot you can see everything around you and everyone can see what you're doing. Another reason to know what you're doing before you try it in front of a lot of witnesses.
4. The people who complain actually don't know how to drive. Primarily because they weren't taught.
And, when I got my license we had to perform a three point turn around in a narrow street, then parallel park between two cars - or cones - in a land yacht with no power steering, not some subcompact car.
So, get over it and find something useful to fill your day.
With a long vehicle or a trailer, pulling forward into a spot is much more difficult. Far easier to get the rear wheels where you want them backing up. Particularly in tighter parking lots.
And yes, I developed the habit when I was doing construction work.
"I am up and out early enough that I can pull right through, and not have to worry about little things like this."
The article talks about this technique as if it's a "lazy" version of the back-in, but of course it's not. I avoid backing in but look for pull-through opportunities, which maximize easiness coming in and going out. The backing in/backing out problem has to do with selecting which WAY you want to make it hard, on the in or on the out. I think backing in is harder, so I choose backing out. Meade backs in and seems to think you need to learn that skill and calling it harder is admitting you're not really much of a driver.
My company, a large utility, gave everyone authorized to drive a corporate vehicle training with regular refreshers. Reversing into a spot was a mandatory. I'm betting every company with a fleet is required by insurance to include back-in training. Now it's creeping out there with thus trained parents teaching it to their kids.
Ha ha. I read Charlie Currie's after I posted my last comment. He sounds like Meade.
The author has fatal projection and better not go to Japan. Literally every parking lot is set up for backing in. They have "tire stop" angled curbs to keep all cars positioned correctly. The locals also know how to back into a space. Given the tight streets and small lots, it can be a relative nightmare to back out.
When backing in, USA drivers often stop way way way too far forward or park at an angle or take forever to finish.
Those who do back up — is it for safety? Do other people believe it's for safety? As the male author of the NYT article says: "My wife suspects they’re mostly men showing off." Ha ha. That's what I think too.
I back in at every opportunity and try to point my vehicle where I am going to go when I am leaving.
It is part anxiety and part practicality.
I feel like I am driving into a trap if I park my vehicle facing a direction it cannot drive out of. It is uncomfortable to do so.
I remember a moon landing in 1971 where I and my friends briefly glanced at the TV then proceeded to rant about Nixon. We didn't want Nixon getting any credit and how dare he imagine that this would improve our attitude.
My truck has the worst turning radius of any vehicle I’ve ever owned, so I park “pull-through” when I can. It’s difficult to back in, but I do it when I can because backing out is really, really hard if the lot is laid out with narrow lanes.
“ Jimmy said...
People who question backing in have never driven a work truck or work van. Backing out of a space in a crowded lot is difficult, with limited sight clearance. Driving out is much easier, and safer”
This is the answer. It’s safer to back in than to back out—especially with backup cameras.
My grandfather asked the dealer to disable his back up camera; it kept showing videos of people getting run over.
buwaya said...
Maybe there is underlying culture there, about being annoyed by people "showing off"? Is this some Northern Euro/Scandi thing?
It certainly isn't a Latin thing.
It is a Karen thing.
Karen is average. Karen hates anything more than one standard deviation to the right. She doesn't mind things to the left. Karen is a 10 out of 10 and so is everyone else except the people who remind her she is not actually a 10 out of 10.
4WD slightly lifted full size truck with wide turning radius. It’s easier to back in and pull forward to leave a parking spot just based on the swing of the front end. Works equally as well for all vehicles. After you’ve done it that was a dozen or so times it becomes second nature. And now with back up cameras, there aren’t really any reasons for one over the other.
I pull in. I get annoyed by those who back in when they are in front of me? It is not for safety. They are just being Jerks.
ronetc--good one. I'm stealing it.
Some people, myself included, find the move annoying.
Why do you even care? Just another reason to bitch by people who spend too much time bitching about people who do things differently.
My Federal law enforcement daughter explained that backing into parking spaces was taught in her tactical driving program as a way to prepare for any emergency. Good enough for me.
"In a nation of rampant gun violence, backing in so you can quickly get out provides a sense of security..." Oh, good grief! What is this from? (Looks) NYT? Of course it is! Nobody there drives a pickup truck. Nobody there even knows anyone who drives a pickup.
If you attack someone in a backed-in Ford F250, you are likely to receive return fire.
This whole thread is like one of those Progressive Insurance commercials about not growing up to be like your parents. The finer points of parking.
Remember the Station nightclub fire in Rhode Island twenty years ago? One kid near the stage who survived said he always scans for the exits when entering a room. Thus when the stage caught fire and everyone was running to the front door (to become trapped), he ran towards the stage knowing there was a door towards the back, where skipped right on out into the rear parking lot.
Scanning each new environment and maintaining situational awareness can be a life saver.
I had to drive a car for a long time whose transmission was losing the reverse function, so I found parking spots where I could pull through to face out, which looked like I had backed in.
Sometimes I back in now, just for practice (and to show off).
Backing out into 'traffic' is harder than backing into a spot. It's not that complicated. Pulling through is ideal. Except when you have to load stuff into the trunk, then you go in front first.
Is the NYT losing money? I wouldn't be surprised, if they're paying someone to write this junk.
I back in whenever I can. And pull through whenever I can. First it is to make sure i do not hit anyone/anything when pulling out. Backup cameras (and myself ) cannot see all when backing out. Especially pedestrians from the sides that appear after you start from all directions. Backing in after checking all directions around me alleviates that. It has nothing to do with “escape”. Just ease of getting out: this is especially true at an event with a crowded parking lot. You can pull right into the flow.’ It’s actually easier to back in as cars are front wheel steering. You have a sharper turn radius to me. Of course since I bought a Tesla I just let the car decide.
"I remember a moon landing in 1971 where I and my friends briefly glanced at the TV then proceeded to rant about Nixon. We didn't want Nixon getting any credit and how dare he imagine that this would improve our attitude."
It's not surprising that you became a college professor.
Years ago my employer mandate backing into parking spaces in the company's parking deck for safety purposes. Backup cameras make this musch easier to do, and I suspect this is why the practice is more popular nowadays.
Most of the oil & gas companies that I ever worked with demanded it when using a company vehicle. I think the concept might have originated with refinery safety, and being able to evacuate many people quickly/safely in an unfolding emergency. But I've always done it for the sake of both skills maintenance and safety. Since backing up is inherently more hazardous, you want to back up into a controlled environment, one with lower traffic, not out into a live traffic stream.
Such unseemly envy at the manly display of skills, my goodness.
I posted before reading comments--I'm not as unique as I thought!
I'm also an exit-checker when I enter a strange building, and yes, I like to sit in restaurants where I can see the entrance.
Grok tells me, since I asked, that UPS drivers are not forbidden to make left turns.
It is highly discouraged for safety and fuel economy reasons and 90 %of all turns in the us are to the right.
I first learned of this 30 years ago. I've never believed the economy/safety excuse.
I think they are fascist John birches.
John Henry
I never trust emergency exits. Too easy to get locked or blocked.
Im gonna head for the main exit.
Thankfully it has never been an issue so far.
John Henry
I can honestly say that when NASA put a man on the moon in 1969, I thought they were showing off.
We were! That was maybe the manliest man thing that man has ever done. It was so damn phallic. Like we were seamen -- semen -- on a quest for big mama. Flag, planted. And we played golf, bitches.
Norm MacDonald on the moon.
I looked away!
Yeah yeah, that's a girl move. We're like, "Holy shit, she's still not looking. We got to go bigger."
"I think they are fascist John birches."
They are brown shirts, after all.
I've noticed lots of people sitting in parked cars nowadays. I guess they're on their phones? It's annoying when you don't know if they're about to leave and you want(ed) the space.
I prioritize getting a spot close to the entrance over other concerns. If I dither, someone else swoops in and I’m left dangling. I was going to say hanging that’s probably not the right word.
I suck at backing in. I'm not precise. I've never been precise. That's an engineer thing, precision. "Stay within the lines." You should see my art! If I back in, I'm taking two spaces. Or it's a 20 minute operation.
You know that game, where you're a surgeon, and you have pull out the heart without touching the sides? Or the big red buzzer went off? I hated that fucking game.
I also cannot fish. Staying within the lines, sitting quiet and still for hours holding a pole, these are not my things.
Author cites AAA’s recommendation to back-in when parking PLUS a seemingly accurate study indicating more risk for forward-parked vehicles backing out.
But no, THAT can’t be right. It must be due to some “ambient anxiety” (never measure, just assume your data, like any good journalist) “[i]n a nation of rampant gun violence”.
Ambient! Anxiety! Rampant! Gun Violence!
Is this news? ALL the news? Fit to print?
Or is this mindless “Let me tell you what *I* think” as so much “journalism” is today.
Crowded parking lots. Big cars blocking visibility. Small spaces. Backup cameras.
Cameras facilitated the shift, absolutely. One other thing to note is that the car feels more maneuverable when backing up as you rotate it around the pivot point. This makes adjusting the body angle much easier to do in a tight corner than when pulling in to a spot nose in.
I drive a pick up truck, so backing in blocks entry to the bed, but in a car I often back in just because it makes leaving easier. I'm just getting the backing up part out of the way early. I never thought of it as showing off, because it's no harder than backing out. To see it as showing off, you have to think it's difficult. Do women think it's some kind of accomplishment? We really are different.
I don’t shop at Target. I have been to Walmart. Walmart angles their parking spaces to help keep traffic going one way. Smart.
I prefer to pull out forward from a parking space unless I need to use the trunk.
The secondary consideration is whether or not the Sun is shining through the windshield- I will park to avoid the Sun doing so if possible.
I park next to the cart return, safer, and easier to return a cart.
Shopping tip: Get your shopping cart from the ones in the parking lot. They are pretested to have good wheels. Bad ones never leave the store.
It took me a while to figure out what this was about because I was thinking of parallel parking on the street, not in parking lots. Everybody backs in.
Do you eat the best food on your plate first or save it for last? Do you put the effort into backing into yours parking space first or save it for backing out later? If you have your parking angst before going into the mall, shopping is likely to be an unpleasant experience. If you have the angst backing out of your spot on your way home, it matters less, because soon enough, you'll be home.
I like to back in to show off my 2021 Civic.
I learned to back up skillfully using only side view mirrors when I drove dump trucks, sign trucks and garbage trucks many years ago. I use the rear camera on my car now just to check the depth in the space so I'm not too close to the car behind me.
Backing a large trailer is not difficult. What is exceedingly difficult is backing up a short trailer (like an air compressor on two wheels) with a long truck. If you've never done it, you have no idea. You must counterintuitively back the trailer in the opposite way you think it should go. The slightest error results in a jackknife and you have to start all over.
If is far safer to pull out of a parking space going forward rather then in reverse. And- back up cameras make it far easier to back into spaces now then even 5 years ago when they weren't as common. About 2-3 years back a local small city - Auburn NY- repainted all it's on street diagonal parking spaces to slant in the other direction and initiated back in parking only whereas it had been pull in parking only. The decision IIRC was much opposed, but appears to allow for better overall traffic flow. Don't know the accident statistics from it.
Before backup cameras I never backed into a space. Now I do so routinely. Exception being if I know I'm heading into a store with the intention of loading the car from the rear. Much harder to do if you're backed in. Especially with lumber or pipes...
I often back in, particularly if I'm parking for any period of time, for a practical reason. It makes it easy to access the battery for a jump start. It has never occurred to me that backing in is showing off.
I pull in and back out. I also find the back in drivers slightly annoying. They always take a long time to get parked so I am left sitting in the parking lot waiting for them to finish their maneuvers, and they are often blocking an empty parking space while they load their groceries into their trunk. I understand the safety argument, but I think as more people back in, it makes pedestrians and other cars less safety conscious and less aware as they come through the parking lot lanes.
Backing into a spot is a family trait learned when we first got our licenses. The ideal is that you are as capable driving in reverse as you are driving forward in first gear.
With the rise of the taller pickup trucks and SUVs that block lines of sight when you are parked next to them, there became more of an incentive to park facing out for visibility.
The primary reason this happens more is that with modern backup and full-vehicle cameras, it is often easier, with video-assisted, guided control of all the corners and with the front actually turning at a larger radius than the back, it is just easier to do.
As a matter of safety, just as a delivery driver for UPS or FedEx. The can get *fired* if they park forward in a space. Insurance companies will tell you that backing out of parking spaces is one of the most expensive sources of collision claims. Friends of mine who are delivery drivers have said that their company has people to follow drivers and check on this sort of stuff, and that it lowers their insurance rates. One of them retired ten years ago and still can't bring himself to pull into a space forward.
“Meade backs in and seems to think you need to learn that skill and calling it harder is admitting you're not really much of a driver.”
The reason Meade SEEMS to think that is because Meade KNOWS that. Nearly anyone can become an excellent driver with practice, good instruction, and the will to be an excellent driver. Too many drivers have no interest in being excellent. Maybe they WANT to show off. HEY, EVERYONE, LOOK AT ME—my driving skills suck, ain’t I cool?
It’s simply dependent on the dynamics of the parking lot or traffic. If it’s a place that presents problems when backing out, such as high foot or car traffic or visibility problems, then I back in to make exiting easier. Most places it isn’t necessary. Are favorite local spot across the main drag in Tioga is a mixed lot. Some spaces like the handicapped one in front are fine but the ones on the curve are best backed into because of traffic converging from three directions.
Parking and rational choices.
This might be the first time I’ve written “are” when I meant our. Dang.
Sydney said...
“[Backers] always take a long time to get parked so I am left sitting in the parking lot waiting for them to finish their maneuvers…”
Former driving instructor here.
Whether you are pulling in forward or backward, the standard is that you should be able to pull into the spot in one smooth movement. If you are jockeying, you need to up your game. And, yes, there are (rare) people who jockey when pulling in forward, too.
“…and they are often blocking an empty parking space while they load their groceries into their trunk.”
Regardless of whatever way you pull into your spot (*), you should plan to park in the spot so that you have sufficient access to whatever part of your vehicle you need without impinging on others.
(*) - I am thinking of Arnold parking the classic ‘59 Corvette in True Lies.
Re Sydney: yes my avoidance of being that guy “holding up traffic” is the main reason backing in is my second choice and then, only as needed.
W.Cook said...
“Insurance companies will tell you that backing out of parking spaces is one of the most expensive sources of collision claims.”
A minivan once clipped my fender while backing out of a parking spot. The driver was watching the backup camera and didn’t see me coming down the aisle.
I have driven a pickup truck for 30 years. I always back in (or pull through where available) because the turn radius going forward versus going backward means I can be surer of being able to pull forward out of a spot than to back out. Not sure who decided to be the "parking queen" and demand nose-in parking, maybe they should mind their own f**king business.
"The reason Meade SEEMS to think that is because Meade KNOWS that."
The reason I wrote "seems to think" is that I can't actually know what you think. Even if you tell me "I think X is Y," I still don't know that's what you think. I'd have to write, "Meade says X is Y." I'm trying to be precise and truthful.
If your point is you think it because it's true, yeah, I get that's how thinking works. You believe what you believe. But what's that to me. How am I to phrase it? Maybe in terms of my own belief: I think you think it because it seems obviously true to me and therefore you probably perceive the same obviousness. But this is not a case of that. I don't think it's obvious that X is Y. All I see is that you keep saying things that reflect a strong belief that X is Y, and I have a longstanding confidence in your honesty.
I still need to say "Meade seems to think...." Originally, I just had "Meade thinks" and on proofreading, I saw that I needed to add "seems to" for accuracy.
"Too many drivers have no interest in being excellent. Maybe they WANT to show off. HEY, EVERYONE, LOOK AT ME—my driving skills suck, ain’t I cool?"
Do we know anyone like that?
While this NYT article could be describes as whimsical, it scares me when the media takes up an issue like this. Soon enough, those on the left will proclaim which approach is correct and lobby for federal regulation requiring the correct method and banning the incorrect. I am sure there will be a climate change angle - wasted fuel from wrong way parking perhaps.
As a general rule any business with a large fleet of vehicles trains drivers to back into parking spaces as a safety function; statistically more accidents occur backing out of a parking space than pulling forward out of one. Both for safety and operational speed the drivers of emergency vehicles are usually required to back into parking spaces so they can drive forward when exiting one. Look at the trucks in firehouses, ambulance depots and police lots... drivers are required to back into spaces so when dispatched to a call comes they can drive forward out of them --saves a lot of time when your response time to get to a call location is timed by seconds. I learned to do it driving an ambulance without backup cameras and the practice bled over into my regular driving for a number of years.
Only person I knew that backed into his garage at home was a DEA agent that lived in my neighborhood. He also had a breakaway garage door. He told us the address on his drivers license was not his home address it was a federal building in Milwaukee. Nonetheless a defense attorney tried to disclose his home address while he was testifying in a court case. The judge sanctioned the attorney and closed the courtroom to spectators after that.
Heard this story from his wife and shortly after that they had to move.
This is about the stupidest article in Althouse's warehouse of stupid articles and her response is, I'll be gentle, questionable at best. Many large parking lots have no "bumpers between one way parking spots so one can just drive thru to next lane and face out. It's men she shrieks! Just yesterday, as I got outta my vehicle, a woman in an SUV backed into the spot next, took her no time and it was parked exactly between the lines. Finally, facing out makes it much safer to exit as you have a much better view of human and vehicle traffic.
I'm with Steve, one of the earlier comments ... cars have backup lights (the white ones when you have reverse engaged) for a reason. I prefer to see a car’s brake and backup lights so I have a clear signal of the driver’s intentions. I think it’s safer for everyone that way. I have no clear signal of what's going on when a car is backed in. Just my humble opinion of course.
“Just yesterday, as I got outta my vehicle, a woman in an SUV backed into the spot next, took her no time and it was parked exactly between the lines.”
Less than one Planck unit? Damn, that’s good.
Saw a woman at Costco yesterday. Had backed in her Mercedes Suv. Unloading full shopping cart , had to carry stuff from cart in front of suv to put it in back .
Sometimes backing in not so good.
Other times are backing into one way diagonal spot. Means going wrong way when leaving.
As said above, with cameras, easy to back in, easy to leave.
I don't do it-yet.
I knew there was a reason I didn’t use the word “hanging” 👆🏽 back there. It’s black history month.
My father was killed age 86 in a casino parking lot by another old guy backing out of a space. Always in perfect health, he would probably still be alive at 96 today if that hadn't happened.
On a lighter note: in cities, when you see a spot on the other side of the street, you go to the nearest alley or driveway past it and use that to turn around and take the spot.
Questions for the group:
1. Why don't we use the British method: if there's a spot on the other side of the street, just drive forwards into it. What does it matter that your parked car is facing the 'wrong' way? You have to proceed with caution when parallel parking or un-parking anyway. And facing the traffic right next to you when you first pull out may actually be safer, as may also be giving the traffic in the lane you're merging into that much more time and space for warning.
2. If you do insist on the pass-turn-round-park method, how do you negotiate the driveway? My uncle insisted on back-in/pull out, thinking that the cars in the street were the greater threat. I prefer head-in/back-out, because people on sidewalks are oblivious and you need a better view of them, while the cars in the street are at least notionally looking out for other cars. CC, JSM
Of course there's also the proceed-to-next-intersection-pull-a-Uey-and-come-back-down-the-street method. Works pretty well in quiet urban residential neighborhoods, and you're always driving forward. CC, JSM
“Do we know anyone like that?“
Yes. You know we do, I know you know we do, and the American people now know we do.
Once again, my husband and I defy the gender stereotypes. He doesn’t back in. Ever. I optimize depending on factors. Sporting events? Back in. And park close to exit. Grocery store? I don’t back in. But I do park next to cart returns, if possible. Movie theaters? I like to find the pull through so it ends up the same as back in. It’s all about whether or not other cars leaving is random or after a scheduled event.
Prof: ""I remember a moon landing in 1971 where I and my friends briefly glanced at the TV then proceeded to rant about Nixon."
Tin spaceships and Nixon's comin
We're finally on our own
This summer I hear the drummin
Four guys in Apollo
'Gotta get down to it
Astronauts splashin it down
Shoulda been done long ago
What if you knew them and
Saw them up on the Moon
Why watch TV when you know?
CC, JSM
Front in, back in, makes no difference. I guess it’s a kind of reverse snobbery, but I’ve always been an uncrowded back-of—the-lot parker. And then looked down my nose at the lazy-ass rubes grubbing for a spot in the congested front-of-the-lot. All so they save themselves a literal minute of walking.
“You back that rig up right here.”
—— Rudy Ray Moore
Tesla Autopark always back in. Soon there will be so many Robotaxis that parking will not be a problem anywhere.
My husband and I usually find a spot where we can pull through so we are pointing out usually some distance from the store. It's seems safer to not be baking up where people might be walking.
I'm all for seniors not doing shoulder checks: move forward as much as possible. Go through an empty spot to get into the one in front, so you can move only forward.
my driving skills suck, ain’t I cool?
Sounds like Mr. Bingley's handwriting skills.
I wish my car's head restraint wasn't so big and so forward. Backing would be much easier without it (no camera).
I am a shadow on this blog. Have been following Ann for 15 years. I had to comment. Tesla FSD late models all back into a space if it is avaialble at Krogers or any other parking lot-- Costco, Sams etc. It has been doing this ever since Tesla was introduced FSD. (Full Self Driving)/. It's more like something Elon created than finding other reasons for the "back in" mania.
Now let's talk about the Corvette / Camaro / Charger drivers that purposely park their car directly over a line to hog 2 spaces in crowded city parking garages, lest other drivers park close enough to risk bumping their doors.
As far as backing out goes, I think backup cameras give a false sense of security. They were designed to give a view in the immediate rear below the trunk lid, and don't provide the 360 degree view people think they do. I personally find it a bit disorienting to switch from the camera display to mirrors or windows when reversing even though that is needed for safety.
Ralph L : Don't think of it in terms of your rearview mirror because that's not the important part of the exercise -- it's your side view mirrors, both sides, and having a good feel for where your rear tires are so you know where the the vehicle is going to start the turn. Ambulances and many other trucks don't have rearview mirrors at all; you just have to have a good feel for how far back behind the rear wheels your back bumper extends, and where your turn axis starts, then keep oriented on both sides with your side mirrors. Just takes practice
Oh, good grief. In rural Australia, they have angled parking spots on the street, and the law for parking varies from town to town. For some you pull in front first, for others you back in. I was reading a local newspaper and they have intense flame wars over which is "better". I couldn't believe these people were so invested in such a mundane issue. It comes as no surprise to me that the NYT has joined the fray.
BTW, for a left-seat driver (i.e. driving on the right side of the road), driving a right-seat driver car, there actually is a difference. I find backing the car up in this unfamiliar configuration surprisingly difficult; and I've talked to others, including a professional driver, who said the same thing. When you look in the rear view mirror from the "wrong" seat, it is confusing. The eyes see but the brain does not comprehend. I avoid backing up in AU and NZ when I can.
Was at a meeting with Traffic engineers and they were going on about this. I asked for the definitive study showing this. I’m skeptical because people shouldn’t be walking in travel lanes; without bumper blocks you could back into a pedestrian on the walk; backing in often requires crossing centerline into oncoming traffic. Methinks it’s more virtue-signaling by the anti-car crowd.
I have a 4 door F-150. It is easier to back in than pull into most spots
The idea that people are "Showing off" by backing in is absurd. Showing off to who? "Oh look at me, Im impressing that rando chick with a shopping cart. Maybe, theyll write down by liscense plate and send me a love note".
And yes anyone. Even females, can learn how to park. its just a matter of practice. My daughter learned. It was a struggle but she did it.
I wonder how much more time is taken backing into a spot versus waiting on someone inching out of the parking spot backwards waiting to see if they will get honked at by an oncoming car or waiting as pedestrians pass by as their heads swivel left and right and back to make sure no one popped up. And making sure that the cars across from you do not start backing up after you started.
In a nation of rampant gun violence...
Stopped reading right there.
I am more likely to back in if I'm driving a 1956 GMC than if I'm driving a 2017 Hyundai, so I agree that some of it is showing off.
Contra bagoh20 I avoid parking next to the cart return, or anywhere near it. A doofus cart pusher can ding your car just as well as a doofus driver.
but I’ve always been an uncrowded back-of—the-lot parker.
Yep. And saves your vehicle from getting dinged by idiots who let their doors fly open.
"but I’ve always been an uncrowded back-of—the-lot parker."
Me, too.
And my wife.
No door dings and a little exercise.
I thought it was rather basic. The Army trained me. When the proverbial Ballon goes up, you don't want to be backing out of a parking space. 10 Humvees lined up, parking straight in, and have to leave immediately. Keystone Cops. What does the Fire Dept do?
"Contra bagoh20 I avoid parking next to the cart return, or anywhere near it. A doofus cart pusher can ding your car just as well as a doofus driver."
Yeah, I avoid the cart return as well for the same reason.
Beaver 7216: Yup. Fire/EMS, cops, just about any emergency response outfit automatically backs in so as to pull out fast. Utility people frequently park that way as well, less because of fast response issues than because their risk management people require it.
When I really want to show off, I make the whole trip in reverse.
LOL
Mark said...
Was at a meeting with Traffic engineers and they were going on about this. I asked for the definitive study showing this. I’m skeptical because people shouldn’t be walking in travel lanes; without bumper blocks you could back into a pedestrian on the walk; backing in often requires crossing centerline into oncoming traffic. Methinks it’s more virtue-signaling by the anti-car crowd.
For the most part people are talking about backing into spaces in parking lots, not street spaces but I'll give it a go. Basically all of your objections are true of backing *out* of a parking spot as well so it's simply a matter of doing them when entering or leaving the spot. Properly positioned mirrors or a backup camera solve the problem of being able to stop in the correct position (failing that, you can simply observe your orientation to vehicles already parked). There's no guarantee just because you are moving forward towards pedestrians that you'll stop which is why most streets with no curb already have blocks for diagonal parking spaces.
My company tells us to park in a way that our first movement isn't backing up. We even ask people coming in to interview to back into the space in our building's visitor parking lot.
We don't routinely provide specific "backing into a parking space" training even though we give fresh college grads a Ford F-150.
It's OK as long as it's straight in parking or a two-way row. If you park backed in on a one-way row, you're a dick. If you take more than two moves to back in, you're also a dick (whether you have one or not). My son sells cars, he has to back them in and he said the secret is aiming the side mirrors down.
No one conclusively proved why it's suddenly become so popular. Social contagion? Another thing I want explained is why "gifted" has almost completely replaced gave and given this century.
Another nice bonus of backing in, especially with a full size truck is you can park closer to the car on the passenger side as it’s passenger to passenger. If my wife or someone is in the passenger seat, I’ll drop at the venue entrance or they’ll hop out before I start the maneuver. Especially at the grocery store when I can’t park next to the cart drop off and I want room for the door to my back seat to open up. CrewMax Tundra and the doors are enormous.
Anthony,
> even though we give fresh college grads a Ford F-150
Good grief, are you guys crazy??
FNG's should get vehicles that are 6 months from being retired from the fleet. And if you want to be nice to them, you can add quote "working" to that spec.
Why park nose out? In many parking lots, one can park nose out by pulling forward into the 2nd parking space, the one just ahead of that into which one first pulled. Then there is no risk of a damaged front end caused by an idjit trying to back his oversized Tundra into the space up against your car's headlights.
Front wheel drive cars make tighter turns in reverse. That plus rear cameras make reversing in easier in tight aisles.
Mark : nope
I never used to back in. Too much trouble. Then I got a Tesla with full self drive which comes with autopark. It always backs in. It's really a nice feature -- gets you into tight spots without fear of dinging your car or the ones next to you. Of course, sometimes it gets you into such a tight space you can hardly open the door to get out, so I guess they need to work on that a bit.
My understanding is that both AZ and NV are one plate states and with only a rear plate, you are legally not supposed to park without your plate being visible. Police invariably park front out, but Thats fine since they have both plates. And, of course, they are police. The bigger PDs also have automatic license plate readers, so they can just drive down a street, automatically checking for stolen vehicles and fugitives.
It’s also somewhat scary technology. Rear plate was stolen off the Tahoe in PHX. PXPD responded, and marked the plate as stolen. Asked him if I should just move my front plate to the back (since AZ is a one plate states). Nope, unless I wanted to be dragged from my vehicle at gunpoint. Officer then proceeded to demonstrate, by scanning the remaining plate, and immediately setting off a loud alert, since that set of plates had been marked as stolen.
Most of the time trucks are backed in. There's the statistic out there that most accidents happen while backing up...not sure where that came from, but it's probably correct. As Wince @ 8:31 describes, visibility is much, much better when you pull out of a spot you've backed into. The dimensions of a parking spot can vary, but they don't vary as much as the dimensions of the empty space you back into if you've pulled in face forward. This may sound odd, but truck drivers tend to do many things all day long to minimize the probability of hitting other things or people with their truck, as this tends to make the workday much more complicated. I think that's really all there is to it.
Now a car or SUV or minivan has much better rearward visibility than a commercial truck, so it probably doesn't make much difference, but the same principles apply.
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