"... and that control of the company would be taken over by its Chinese supplier.... Chinese companies have been racing to dominate the robotics industry..... In 2022, Amazon said it would acquire iRobot and all of its debt for about $1.7 billion.
But the deal fell apart under scrutiny from regulators in the United States and Europe who said it could undercut competition.... On Sunday, iRobot filed a bankruptcy petition in Delaware...."
From
"Roomba Maker iRobot Files for Bankruptcy, With Chinese Supplier Taking Control/Founded in 1990 by three M.I.T. researchers, iRobot introduced its vacuum in 2002. Its restructuring will turn the company over to its largest creditor" (NYT).
Amazon + iRobot — the American entity — seemed too big, so now the iRobot will be part of a Chinese company.
Posts
79 comments:
Amazon is why we have antitrust laws.
Amazon has been forcing businesses to build their products in China.
When they aren’t colluding with China against US businesses they just undercut them with “Amazon Basics.”
Amazon needs to be about 50 different companies.
If it’s American, it’s too big. If it’s Chinese it won’t last before you either have to buy another one or hire the ilegal to take care of whatever it is that the robot was designed to take care of in the first place. We’re so screwed.
"But the deal fell apart (in 2022) under scrutiny from regulators in the United States and Europe who said it could undercut competition..
Another Democrat failure. Wouldn't have happened during this administration.
I bought a cheap Chinese edger for our lawn, the one that cuts up against the sidewalk. The dam thing didn’t make the third time use. I finally bought the expensive one. It was either buy a good one or hire the landscaper at whatever the going rate is these days. I don’t even know what $ that is. I’m afraid to look it up.
Good job, Biden Admin!
Wow, those Democrats are really great at protecting the American consumer!!!
I don't suppose Amazon wants to make an offer to teh bankruptcy court for more than teh Chinese supplier is offering.
I'm curious if they can make such an offer. I would think a bankruptcy court should be happy to get more $$ for all creditors
I bought a cheap Chinese edger for our lawn, the one that cuts up against the sidewalk. The dam thing didn’t make the third time use. I finally bought the expensive one.
The most expensive not always the best.
Project farm. This guy a scientist who tests everything. When he tested battery jumper, the factory couldn't keep up with the demand for the one he labeled best for the money
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRSdaMe-QIMjm-ZcfX8mdjY1srdCeJUg2m-IwjSWPKoRhzW5bWos35RGQ-YMR4iZA-iWB68wKegptex/pubhtml
Project farm weed whacker.
Amazon needs to be about 50 different companies.
I disagree. Amazon is a case study in American entrepreneurial spirit and ceaseless hard work. Starting in the mid 90's as an online bookstore, Amazon has directly supported the development and growth of small companies whose only market and distribution outlet that would otherwise be available is the platform and services that Amazon offers. Folks made the very same arguments against Walmart.
Our history is replete with examples of companies thought to be too big and dominating only to later become footnotes.
Anyone still using a Netscape browser or using a Commodore computer? Tower Records, Blockbuster. Any one still using a Blackberry or a Nokia?
Government meddling in these areas by shiny-pantsed bureaucrats and politicos thinking that they know better than the markets have consistently caused more harm than good, and this iRobots story is a perfect example.
- Krumhorn
Does anyone actually own one of these things?
Amazon is a great resource in a lot of ways, but it's definitely not a good example. They are filled with counterfeits, not just similar products, but products with brand name labels that aren't made by that company. They encourage piracy and knock-offs, no care about patents or copyrights or anything. Good things can still be bought there, but whole categories (like jeans) should be mistrusted. About a dozen years ago they went all in on Chinese industry and that included pirated and illegally copied goods.
Sadly, where I live we don't have hardly any stores and gas here is still very expensive, so Amazon Prime is a important resource, but they're shady and bad in so many ways, I shop with them holding my nose. But that I shop with them still (never Levi's jeans again!) makes this comment just a statement of reality not a moral judgement.
Prof: "Amazon + iRobot — the American entity — seemed too big, so now the iRobot will be part of a Chinese company. "
Longtime members of this parish may recall that I went to half of law school, in Cleveland. It turns out a lot of precedents have been set in Ohio, and many of those in Cleveland. So often, the casebooks would feature some local business which lost a precedent-setting case about jurisdiction or negligence.
None of those businesses were still in Cleveland. CC, JSM
Biden Way: Force American companies to go to China (Roomba)
Trump Way: Steal Chinese companies (Tik-Tok)
I like the Trump way better.
Lem: "If it’s American, it’s too big."
I hear this way too often when I'm overseas. CC, JSM
Dogs everywhere claim vindication.
250 years ago America was a minor agrarian country (like the rest of the world) but adopted a unique Constitution that guarantees freedom for its people. Free people need free markets so we embraced free market capitalism. Living standards soared for the first time in human history. Free people do incredible things like invent robot vacuum cleaners and on-line marketplaces. Sadly we have given too much power to bureaucrats and college professor senators that have never created or run a business. But they’re arrogant enough to think they are better equipped to shape those marketplaces than the millions of people voting with their dollars.
I don't have a Roomba. And I'm not likely to buy one. Doubly so if it's made in China. That stuff doesn't wear well.
Good things can still be bought there, but whole categories (like jeans) should be mistrusted. About a dozen years ago they went all in on Chinese industry and that included pirated and illegally copied goods.
My experience with Amazon is that they will accept and credit returns of just about everything they sell, and the return process is streamlined for maximum convenience. In the product reviews there are almost always a few people unhappy because products sold as brand-name turn out to be counterfeits--while the majority of reviews say they are very happy and the product is as advertised.
I wonder whether the counterfeits are somehow substituted by scammers, or the bad reviews are fakes designed to steer the buyers to other products.
It seems that with 100 percent satisfaction returns and free shipping (with Amazon prime) Amazon would lose lots of money if they were selling junk.
I've also bought lots of stuff that I know is made in China, with no illusions as to the potential for junk. Generally I'm impressed that the stuff is better than I expected.
Fantastic! Now the Chinese will know the layout of all the homes that use a Roomba. The next model will likely have cameras and microphones.
Also Elon could presumably crank out a cheap robot vac that works way better over the course of his afternoon coffee break. I wonder why he hasn't.
I'm looking at this through the lens of Biden v. Trump.
The general equilibrium argument for free trade says that no matter the overall trade deficit, the balance of payments means that exporting countries eventually have to turn those dollars largely in to US-sourced purchases.
But is there a qualitative difference for American society over time whether those foreign purchase are of: (1) goods and services produced for sale by US workers and firms, or (2) purchases of US capital assets that are the seed corn of our domestic industrial base?
Also I just bought a couple of pairs of classic 505 Levi's ($35 each!) on Amazon about a month ago, and as far as I can tell they are the genuine article.
Where I live there are not a lot of good retail options. Amazon is a godsend.
Hess: "Now the Chinese will know the layout of all the homes that use a Roomba. The next model will likely have cameras and microphones."
I will be riding my Roomba pantsless. I encourage my fellow Americans to do the same. CC, JSM
I'm still usin’ the roomba baby
I can't seem to quit
If my mama catches us usin’ the roomba
Mama would just pitch a fit
But the deal fell apart under scrutiny from regulators in the United States and Europe who said it could undercut competition...
Remember Judge Bork of "Borking" fame? He wrote an influential book in 1978 covering this topic entitle The Antitrust Paradox. The arguments have continued ever since.
Lina Kahn's take (Biden FTC commissioner): "Amazon's Antitrust Paradox"
My argument is part of a larger recent debate about whether the current paradigm in antitrust has failed. Though relegated to technocrats for decades, antitrust and competition policy have once again become topics of public concern.
https://yalelawjournal.org/pdf/e.710.Khan.805_zuvfyyeh.pdf
Competitive Enterprise Institute's take: "A Global Antitrust Paradox? The FTC is harming America’s race with China"
Khan’s agenda at the FTC is a bad idea that could scarcely come at a worse time. To say that the fate of the free world depends on US competition with the CCP is only to paraphrase what is now a bipartisan consensus. The outcome of that competition may depend on the pace of US technological innovation in fields including AI, which Khan is working hard to thwart.
More broadly, a country’s competition policy has serious and previously underexplored ramifications for economic growth, inflation, and global competitiveness. And the effect size is non-trivial, even by macroeconomic standards. America’s real GDP would shrink by half of a percentage point, or around $134 billion, if the FTC adopted competition policies like Canada’s.
Because stricter antitrust harms real economic growth and raises inflation, even if it benefits some within a country, it ultimately causes the country as a whole to fall behind the rest of the world. In the race of the US versus China, that could have negative geopolitical implications as well.
https://cei.org/studies/a-global-antitrust-paradox/
It was either buy a good one or hire the landscaper at whatever the going rate is these days.
I was probably 10 years old when I learned, from my father, that I would never be rich enough to afford cheap tools.
I still have about 75% of the Craftsman tool kit that he gave me that year for Christmas. I think my brother has my father's even older Craftsman tools.
I always buy the best tools I can find. I do not need an industrial grade hammer drill. But when I needed to buy one I spent a couple bucks and bought a good one. It will outlive me.
And if I need really heavy duty, I'll borrow my son's top of the line Milwaukee. He doesn't need top grade, but buys it anyway.
Note: Best does not necessarily mean most expensive. Snap-On makes good tools but you pay an enormous amount, possibly double, for the truck service. Other brands are as good and cheaper.
Craftsman started going downhill in the and 80s. I don't know how they are now.
John Henry
Krumhorn said...
Amazon needs to be about 50 different companies.
I disagree. Amazon is a case study in American entrepreneurial spirit and ceaseless hard work.
It is a great place for wealthy billionaires to sell cheap knock offs of IP stolen by a Chinese company.
So now, in addition to the DNA of people who were foolish enough to send it in the Ancestry, 23 and me and so on, the chinese will have detailed floor plans of our houses.
Well, not mine. I don't have a Roomba.
No, I'm not paranoid.
John Henry
Don't trust Roomba! Roomba is assho!
Jeff Bezos doesn't give a fuck about the people who spent 1000s of hours of their lives and employed Americans to build Roomba.
He is happy to sell the Chinese knock off version and put them out of business.
Only laptop class republicans think this is a good model. That is why we elected Trump and not a corporate sellout like Desantis.
Wince said... 12/19/25, 12:41 PM
Your point (2), made here by you quite clearly, seems to be missing from much of the "free trade" with China commentary that I've read.
...except for a few bloggers I visit from time to time, who've expressed concern about China buying up land near military bases.
Folks made the very same arguments against Walmart.
Sam Walton was a big believer in buying American. Sadly that seems to have died with him.
Every marketing teacher and every book seems to say the secret of retail is buying, not selling. Sam Walton is one of the few who actually took that to heart.
If you can buy what the customer wants and sell it at a price they are willing to pay, you don't need to do sales, specials or a lot of advertising. Do it well enough and you need extra security to keep customers from overcrowding the store.
Walmart's major focus has always been on buying. Read about their purchasing office in Bentonville sometime.
Talk to some of my clients. Virtually all sell 40-60% of their total output via Walmart and jump as high as Walmart says. They are a royal, demanding, pain in the ass to deal with. But they make manufacturing companies run a lot better.
John Henry
A few years ago I did some work for a company that made knockdown furniture in Ohio. Probably 1000 or more catalog items, most in a couple dozen colors. They did a lot of Ikea brand furniture too.
First day I was chatting with the plant manager about their need to reduce shipping times. They had too many items to inventory much so they manufactured to order. I said something like "I imagine Walmart is your major customer"
He told me Walmart is A major customer but Amazon was even bigger and were the reason I was there. Amazon had been requiring 36 hours delivery from the time the order was placed until it was ready for pickup on the loading dock.
Amazon had just announced that they were dropping that to 30 hours.
Consider a chest of drawers probably has 20-30 wood pieces. They need to scheduled, cut, drilled, packed and moved to the loading dock in 30 hours.
I was pretty impressed they were doing 36 hours. I helped them get to 30. Lots of wasted effort in that plant. Less now.
Thanks Amazon. Thanks for driving some business my way. But thanks even more for forcing waste out of American industry.
Walmart and Amazon are good for industry. It may be hard to see but by forcing industry to be more competitive, they are good for America.
John Henry
@John Henry,
When are you guys gonna make a packaging machine that doesn't break the chips at the bottom of the bag? Beginning to suspect broken chips and crumbs are intentionally added.
Trump economy at work, making China rich at the expense of the US.
Where the fuck are the Epstein files though?
God bless Amazon. I can't imagine the uncountable hours of my life they have allowed me to do something else besides shopping. I detest shopping.
I don't care about the fast delivery. I care about the vast increase in goods available to me (many I wouldn't have even known they exist) and the fact I don't have to go out shopping.
That said, if it's a big ticket item and available locally I will buy local to support the local businesses. I don't care if it's cheaper on Amazon. More than once I have shopped on Amazon and then gone out and bought local.
boatbuilder said...
Also Elon could presumably crank out a cheap robot vac that works way better over the course of his afternoon coffee break. I wonder why he hasn't.
I can think of 2 reasons:
1) If it doesn't help him get to Mars, and live there when he does, he is not interested.
2) Why a dedicated machine like a Roomba? He is going to be flooding the market with (American made) Optimus robots next year. They can use a regular cheap vacuum cleaner to do everything the Roomba can do. Then they can go wash the dishes.
Here's some of my thoughts on robots vs dedicated machines.
https://online.flipbuilder.com/YaffaMedia/gxoc/#p=40
John Henry
boatbuilder said...
Also I just bought a couple of pairs of classic 505 Levi's ($35 each!) on Amazon about a month ago, and as far as I can tell they are the genuine article.
I used to do some work in the area of product surety as well as teach about it. That includes counterfeiting.
around 2005 there was a case in LA where customs had impounded a container full of high end designer jeans ($150-200/pr) from China. The importer sued to get them back, saying they were legit.
The court got the brand owner in to prove they were counterfeit and could not. They could not show any difference between legit and counterfeit.
The cargo was released back to the importer with apologies.
In some Chinese factories they make the legitimate jeans (or other product) during the day for the brand owner. Then on night shift, in the same factory, using the same machinery and materials, they make the same product for themselves. The only thing counterfeit about them is that they do not have permission to use the brand owners name, design and other IP.
If the brand owner can't tell the difference, is the customer buying the counterfeit getting an inferior product?
John Henry
I was an early robot adopter, and when they came out with the self-enjoying Roombas, I bought 2 - upstairs one named Roombette, downstairs Roomby. Those two eventually stopped charging automatically, and I did some research... I now own Rocky and Rockette, Roborock self-emptying robots that were half or two-thirds the cost of Roombas and much, much faster than my models had been (the Roborock vacuums use lidar for initial mapping and a back-and-forth pattern instead of my Roomba models' bump-and-go and random-walk pattern - maybe newer Roombas have improved).
My minions are in storage as we gypsy around now, but I regret nothing: I almost never dug out my "real"vacuum since the minions were doing a halfway decent job on the whole house every other day.
Heh. Self-enjoying.
Of course I meant self-emptying, but an enterprising person could write a Penthouse Forum letter with that basis.
FullMoon said...
When are you guys gonna make a packaging machine that doesn't break the chips at the bottom of the bag? Beginning to suspect broken chips and crumbs are intentionally added.
They are mainly broken in transit. If they are getting a lot of breakage in the packaging process, ask them to call me. I can help fix it.
I hope you are not one of these folks that complains about the broken chips AND the bag being full of air, are you? Avoiding breakage is the reason the bag is full of air (or nitrogen).
John Henry
John Henry
John Mosby: "I will be riding my Roomba pantsless. I encourage my fellow Americans to do the same. CC, JSM"
Now the Chinese will know the results of your colonoscopy too.
TeaBagHag said...
Trump economy at work, making China rich at the expense of the US. Where the fuck are the Epstein files though?
Actually, the issue presented is whether Globalist trade policies and the Biden/Kahn antitrust policies precipitated this outcome.
"I hope you are not one of these folks that complains about the broken chips AND the bag being full of air, are you? Avoiding breakage is the reason the bag is full of air (or nitrogen)."
Nope, I save the nitrogen and use it to fill my tires.
"By maintaining steady pressure, nitrogen-filled tires help reduce rolling resistance, which can improve gas mileage .."
You change that nitrogen annually, right FullMoon?
"Also I just bought a couple of pairs of classic 505 Levi's ($35 each!) on Amazon about a month ago, and as far as I can tell they are the genuine article."
I used to buy Levi's from Amazon. Great prices. Then realized they didnt last as long with normal use as in years past. But the sales were great. Until last year a couple pair got holes and tears within about 4-5 months. Too late for a return. I posted a negative review using the link in My Orders and it was deleted saying they couldnt verify it was from my account. Very suspicious as I have never had that happen afger 1000s of reviews. The jeans seemed great at first but the material and stitching didnt last near as long.
I used to work at a Levi's retailer (Miller's Outpost) so got to know Levi's really well.
Again, I use Amazon a lot and they do have great customer service, I even am a very longterm member of Amazon Vine. But they also have very suspicious vendors and practices so one has to be careful. This awareness comes from a massive amount of experience with them.
We were early adopters too with the Roomba. The bumping and erratic directions was charming at first, but it wore off. It didn't last half a year and never got a good cleaning. We switched back to vacuuming by hand.
About two years ago, I saw a roomba mower. The random direction gave the results you would expect, a lawn with islands of uncut grass.
If they have systems that can do simple patterns, and if you really just want one, then I'd buy one of those. Frankly, I given up on the things as much more than toys.
You have to wonder how much of Roomba was Chinese anyways. American guys have the idea but to make it, they have to work with a Chinese factory to develop all the molds, tooling, etc.
So right there, they create their own competitor.
This is a huge problem with China - you train your competitor.
"I used to buy Levi's from Amazon. Great prices. Then realized they didnt last as long with normal use as in years past. But the sales were great. Until last year a couple pair got holes and tears within about 4-5 months. Too late for a return."
I bought a pair of Levis from an Amazon retailer several years ago. A while after that, I got an email from them saying they were closing their store and having a clearance sale. They had my size, so I bought a pair for $35 and stuck them in the closet since my current pair was still in good shape.
When I got around to thinking it was time to start breaking them in (shrink-to-fit 501s), I found that there was a manufacturing flaw in one of the seams. The Amazon store I bought them from was gone, so I checked out Levis website and found they had a warranty that covered defects, so I filled out the form and sent a picture.
A couple of days later, I received an email saying that my claim was approved and a coupon code good for $80 through their online store. The store price was $70 but they had a 30% off sale running, making the price $49. I bought two pair and paid the additional $18 owed.
Levis didn't want the defective pair of pants back, so I put them on eBay and ended up earning $19 from the sale, making my final price for two pairs of Levis $34.
What's the first thing you do with the chips?
A: Crush them into tiny pieces in a mush of saliva. Maybe they could just pack them that way... with Chinese saliva, which supports immune health, increases energy and reproductive potency.
I love my Roomba. It thrills me that I can sit here commenting on their demise while it cleans my floor. That's feeds my ego real good.
"You have to wonder how much of Roomba was Chinese anyways."
I'd bet near 100%.
My company's products were knocked off so much that it forced us to redesigned our whole business. We no longer design, build and sell our own products, which built the company from zero to near 200 employees at one point. We now focus on building things for local companies and governments. We now make really big things in small quantities instead of the other way around, and that kind of stuff doesn't lend itself to imports. We are a smaller company now, but more stable and profitable.
Our next door neighbor had one of those Roomba-like lawn mowers. It did ok, I suppose, but it was often in the street gutter or stuck against the house. I felt sorry for the little thing, and the first time I saw this I started to put him back on the lawn. But I had second thoughts; did it have security features? I could imagine exploding ink cartridges, or worse. I decided to leave well enough alone.
iRobot swept into bankruptcy ….. As we know — nature abhors a vacuum.
Fullmoon
I prefer a 78/22 mix in my tires.
Gas is $2.68 here. I can afford to splurge
John Henry
"...but it was often in the street gutter or stuck against the house."
To be fair, that happens to the human powered ones too.
"Original Mike said...
You change that nitrogen annually, right FullMoon?"
Moved on to helium in the car, smoth as silk. Expandeple foam in the pick-up, kinda stiff but never worry about punctures.
Wow! Kak may actually be human, and a funny one too. Well done.
"bagoh20 said...
What's the first thing you do with the chips?
A: Crush them into tiny pieces in a mush of saliva. Maybe they could just pack them that way... with Chinese saliva, which supports immune health, increases energy and reproductive potency."
Just gave me a great idea, crush 'em up, then mix them in the onion dip. Eat with a spoon. Tastes as good, and less effort.
Thanks!
TeaBagHag said...
Trump economy at work, making China rich at the expense of the US.
Where the fuck are the Epstein files though?
I blame public education for this stupidity.
OK Kak--You get a golf clap for that. Heh.
You think TeaBag was educated?
Does anyone actually own one of these things?
A Roomba-type vacuum? Yes. We got one for $110 about three years ago. Our entire main floor is various types of wood flooring.
I wouldn't trade that vacuum (roBerta is what we call it ... or Berta) for anything. Even bought a second one - still in the box - for when this one finally gives out.
It's not just the Roomba.
The problem with the Chinese knock-offs of the Fleshlight is that they are just too small.
No one wants to fuck an appliance with half-the-allowances of an anorexic Ariana Grande.
I am Laslo.
"I prefer a 78/22 mix in my tires."
Mix it yourself?
"John henry said...
So now, in addition to the DNA of people who were foolish enough to send it in the Ancestry, 23 and me and so on, the chinese will have detailed floor plans of our houses.
Well, not mine. I don't have a Roomba."
You have a cellphone, right? They know already.
"Trump economy at work, making China rich at the expense of the US."
I tried to source my products from a US factory that is one block from my office in California.
This factory has the same machinery my Vietnam and China and Taiwan suppliers use: Amada laser cutting - same color and brand in every factory.
USA price was 400% of China or Vietnam and above retail price. So, no, Trump isn't doing anything.
Our high wages and rents make it uneconomical to make most things here even with Japanese laser cutting automated machinery.
Ironically, one of the Vietnam factories has machines from Amada USA - turret punch presses.
So America does make some cool stuff.
It's not just the Roomba.
The problem with the Chinese knock-offs of the Fleshlight is that they are just too small.
No one wants to fuck an appliance with half-the-allowances of an anorexic Ariana Grande.
Now THERE'S an idea. How about a combo Roomba-Fleshlight? All you have to do is ask Alexa to...
- Krumhorn
My favorite China story is about a company I consulted with that built a plant in China. The Americans there worked from Monday to Friday, 8 to 5, and were required to be driven by limos due to “insurance” so they had no local mobility. The plant ran 8 hrs shifts because that was the capacity pricing strategy. It turned out that on the other two shifts and on week ends the plant foremen were running the plant using company raw materials and selling all the products made then to us export under other brand names. Investing in China is stupidity.
"USA price was 400% of China or Vietnam and above retail price. So, no, Trump isn't doing anything."
So do you think there is a better way to fight this than tariffs?
20 years ago, faced with multiple Chinese knock offs of one of our most successful products, we took production to Vietnam, and it was working for a while until the Vietnamese government came in and told our supplier they had to triple the wages of all employees, which were already higher than average. That killed the whole thing, and they became another foreign competitor, with first hand knowledge of how to make the best version on the market.
So much better to have the CCP intruding further into America.
Aaron said...
USA price was 400% of China or Vietnam and above retail price. So, no, Trump isn't doing anything.
Our high wages and rents make it uneconomical to make most things here even with Japanese laser cutting automated machinery.
You could reduce wage costs by 25% right off the top in eliminating payroll taxes. If we want jobs taxing jobs seems like a silly idea.
You could cut costs by at least that much by eliminating most of the stupid regulations, unemployment, workers comp etc.
Any non-idiot country would shift the tax burden off of labor and onto imported foreign goods.
Trump is moving in the right direction just way too slowly.
Tariffs is how you defend domestic manufacturing, BTW. Trump's big mistake was to pretend that protecting the good paying jobs of fellow Americans would be cost free.
Let the Kaka yammer, he’s the kind of person who would say “Don’t worry about the merde in your dinking water! It would cost more to treat it, and I drink Perrier anyway.”
Tina Fey should start worrying about what her "Woomba" will be telling her "lady parts" now that the company's under CCP management.
Abort the competition? Monopolize the market? The Chinese already have smart systems.
I had an early roomba. I loved it, but found myself spending too much time combing cat hair out of the brushes. So I programmed my little humanoid robot to vacuum with my canister vacuum. Lot more work, but more fun.
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