"... we’re letting our closest relationships disintegrate through neglect, busyness and an unwillingness to move past the things that bother us. You may think it’s better for your mental health to slowly distance yourself from someone you have difficulties with, but, in the long run, it will likely have a devastating impact on your happiness and well-being.... Accepting what you can’t change doesn’t mean you’re endorsing their beliefs — it simply means doing everything you can, right now, to embrace the positives and look past the negatives. We’re fortunate that some of the biggest regrets of older people — not expressing love, not seeking forgiveness, not telling those who matter how they feel — are regrets that we can avoid.... The only time it’s too late to apologize or ask for forgiveness is when somebody is no longer here...."
Write Karl Pillemer, a professor of human development at Cornell, and Mel Robbins, author of “The Let Them Theory,” in
"Life Is Too Short to Fight With Your Family" (NYT).
The comments are stuff like "Life is too short to waste time on family members who bring nothing positive to your life," "Stop trying to make people feel guilty for choosing to take care of themselves," and, of course, "This might be good advice in normal times, but not in the age of trump. Bye bye trump supporting family members."
AND: That's obviously a Thanksgiving op-ed, so happy Thanksgiving. Are you celebrating in the old-timey style with a big group of family? If not, is it your choice, somebody else's choice, or no choice at all?
Posts
80 comments:
Right. The one unforgivable thing is supporting Trump.
Yes, NY Times readers seem firmly committed to cutting off family members over politics for reasons of 'mental health' and 'self care'. It's not just that some of the comments are like the ones you cited -- virtually every one of the top readers picks I read are in that vein. I had read way down that list to find even a single comment in agreement with the article: "I intensely dislike Trump. But, a good neighbor and some good relatives love him. I don't understand it. But I am not giving up those relationships for them exercising their right to choose their candidate...They have never talked politics with me since. We talk about our dogs, about sports, about happenings in our city. This person is one of the first to offer assistance in a pinch. "
An unwillingness to move past the things that bother us about other people is pretty much the character trait that defined Jerry Seinfeld's love life.
Why is it so hard for someone to just say Can we please not talk about politics?
Or just: I'm not going to talk about politics.
Alternatives:
You invited me over and you're going to grill me about politics?
Okay, I get it. I understand your position. But can I introduce a new topic?
Okay, I get it. I understand your position. Do you want to know what I think? I feel like I need to read a couple books on the subject. What have you read?
This Mel Robbins lady was on Maher last weekend. She mentioned that "Let Them" is the clean version of the Irish philosophy "Fuck 'Em." Not in the sense of wishing them ill - rather, more like realizing their opinions don't really affect you, so stop thinking about them.
Glen Hansard does a musical version in Once:
https://youtu.be/0eM-HYfZk_I?si=l3vIK30Ri6-MLZrz
CC, JSM
Just the wife and I this year, which is fairly typical. Our families are not within day-tripping distance and this year I'm deeper than usual into various Christmastide commitments. We had recently spent the holiday with her niece and husband but I haven't inquired into the motivation for staying home this year. I suspect its more logistical than any other reason. Over the years the celebration for me has been everything from hosting family gatherings to traveling for them but growing up it was usually just immediate family so the big aunts/uncles/cousins twice removed shindig is not my Thanksgiving memory. The turkey breast is brining and we'll eat whenever everything's ready.
Why is it so hard for people to turn off politics? I'd say at the root it is because political views have displaced traditional religious ones as the primary source of moral and philosophical meaning for many people. People are in mortal fear of eternal damnation (or at least a Twitter storm) if they are seen as participating in a society that doesn't fully align with their values.
Anyway, hoping everyone has a happy and hearty thanksgiving day with whomever and however it is celebrated.
“What don’t you like? The Peace or the Prosperity?”
Happy Thanksgiving. There’s only four of us this year because a wedding in September disrupted habits and there’s too many health issues besides. We’re going to dine out at a nice place in a bungalow, so lots of people at dinner! Traditional thanksgiving fare or full menu- I’m thankful for that…
As I've said for years here, the worst thing Leftists have done to our society is to make the personal political.
I've encountered too many Leftists in the last few years who are obsessed with dragging others (usually unwillfully) into their political miasma.
With some, like one of my golfing friends, you can tell them they are being rude and insufferably so, and that ends it. With some others, they cannot let it go. I let them go. Period.
I passed up an invitation to Thanksgiving with my stepdaughter's inlaws because they are obsessed with Trump and do nothing but sneer about him. Luckily, we have the alternative to be with my sister and her husband.
I'm sure there are those on the other side of the political divide who are just as obnoxious and, yes, obsessed. I'll bet some of the commenters here are like that. But I've found those to be far rarer than Leftists.
…gdp and unemployment are just over 4 percent, cpi is about 3 and falling, equities are double digits before the santa claus rally. If you’re miserable it’s your own fault. I suggest a long walk in the woods for you today…
The ability to agree to disagree is important for any society. And by the way Lefties (I use this term as a poetic apostrophe not to any particular lefties here in this blog's comment section,) the more heterogenous and "Diverse" a society is the more important that ability is.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
I have my two brothers who are both moving away from Ct, to help their SO, take care of elderly family members, like I do my Mom here, to celebrate before they move. Our family is getting further apart miles wise...but we still enjoy being together when we get the chance. Family is everything!
Are you celebrating in the old-timey style with a big group of family?
Yes, as a matter of fact. It’s 7:00 as I write this, and the first son and his wife and kids should arrive in about four hours. House will soon contain both sons, their lovely and intelligent wives, and four grandkids under four.
I recently attended a presentation about dealing with unwanted politics at Thanksgiving and other family events. The advice correlates strongly with the Professor's excellent suggestions.
I recently attended a presentation about dealing with unwanted politics at Thanksgiving and other family events. The advice correlates strongly with the Professor's excellent suggestions.
It seems, for most people, the only thing they love more than hearing their own opinions coming out of their own mouth is hearing their own opinions coming out of your mouth. Too late in life, I learned that the best response to hearing an opinion I disagreed with was simply, “You may be right.” Please pass the turducken.
This will be my first solitary Thanksgiving. By my own choice, and not because of politics. My eldest son lives abroad, my other son will be at his maternal grandparents house with his mother. My girlfriend is having Thanksgiving dinner at her house with her family, and I'm just not feeling enthused about attending. My parents are both dead now and I have several local siblings doing God only knows what. I'll open a nice bottle of port and hang out with my dog. It doesn't feel like a hardship, though I wish I could walk down the street and have a nice meal with my parents again.
I've long known enough to keep politics out of my conversations with family who disagree with me. We sometimes joke around the edges of politics, but we all know it's a tripwire that we want to avoid, and move on swiftly before anyone says something serious.
Meade pretty much nailed it.
So I'll simply add, Happy Thanksgiving to all of you, to the entire Althousian Clan that gathers here daily.
Be thankful that you have the luxury of time to read these posts and consider them before posting your own thoughts to the world. Much of the world does not have that luxury. We're pretty lucky. Except when we have to read comments by well...you know.
On a cruise. Thanksgiving not a family holiday. No living family Trump supporters. Was interesting to go to school reunion in UK where many classmates approached subject of Trump with trepidation, but were relieved to learn I'm not a Trumpist. I can't remember a disagreement over Trump. Easy enough to change the subject.
We started food prep yesterday. We had one family meal last night, as some have decided to use low rates on airfare for a quick vacation. Those that stayed in town will come over later today.
The request this year was to skip the turkey. We will still have ham, but in place of the bird will be beef. The grill will be fired up shortly.
Happy Thanksgiving to the Meadhouse, Althouse, and the right thinking commentariat.
“There’s no success like failure. And failure’s no success at all.”
Readering and his family of sad fucks…
A good rule for family gatherings is the one adopted by a very long-running traveling golf group: There are only three forbidden topics of conversation. 1. Politics. 2. Religion. 3. The Civil War.
May their suffering under Herr Schtarmer be educating and brief.
Old and slow said...
I've long known enough to keep politics out of my conversations with family who disagree with me. We sometimes joke around the edges of politics, but we all know it's a tripwire that we want to avoid, and move on swiftly before anyone says something serious.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've heard for many years that it was prudent to avoid bringing up politics and religion with others. It's only in the last 15 years or so that I've really understood why.
The problem with the "You may be right" response - and it does work a lot, as I've used it - is that there's a number of people who don't get the point and regard it as an invitation to proceed further.
“This might be good advice in normal times, but not in the age of trump. Bye bye trump supporting family members."
No surprise for a sick reader of the NYT.
Happy Thanksgiving to the whole commentariat — to Crack and Garage, too — wherever they may be.
No real gathering or celebration this year. As far as family differences go, if I were to shun everyone with differing political opinions, I would have to get a divorce.
All three of my kids, and my daughters boyfriend who I suspect will become my son, are in one place at one time as of last night around 8:00, and until this morning around 9:00. We did one Thanksgiving last night, barbecue from a place in Houston that got its Michelin star this year, and we'll do a second this afternoon with the two kids who will still be here, with a smoked turkey from a butcher shop near us. I am very thankful!
Then we leave for California, where my husband's brother and his wife are still not speaking to us over Trump. At my husband's suggestion and with my mother-in-law's concurrence, I reached out to my sister-in-law yesterday (my brother-in-law is the more unbudging of the two) to wish their daughter a happy birthday and tell them when we would be in town, saying that we would love to get together. After many hours, I did get a reply for the first time in months thanking me for the birthday wishes and saying "TBD to that." So we'll see. We have been trying to pry this door open a crack all year - my husband sending simple chatty texts about what our kids are up to, pictures of things we're doing and places we've been, but this is the first time that we've gotten anything at all back. I have no idea how we will proceed if they do want to get together, but at least we'll know we tried, and kept trying.
Acceptance is the answer
My life got so much better when I learned to accept my family just as they were, and not how I thought they should be. Doesn't mean I let them abuse me...learn to set boundaries, people! It does mean stop judging people for things that are none of my business.
Mr. Forward said...
“What don’t you like? The Peace or the Prosperity?”
Democrat voters don't like either of those.
If you are prosperous then they aren't taking enough of your stuff.
If there is peace their donors aren't making any money off our forever wars.
Dave Begley said...
“This might be good advice in normal times, but not in the age of trump. Bye bye trump supporting family members."
No surprise for a sick reader of the NYT.
That reader might be surprised to learn no one is upset at their absence. Having to tiptoe around such people to avoid upsetting them, while they have no hesitation at upsetting others, is tiresome.
Wow. I read the comment section over on the NYT. There's a lot of 'I'm much happier without my family' type assertions, but you can feel the bitterness in their words. It's as if the source of their joy is the hatred they feel towards mom, dad and Aunt Mary.
I suspect a fair number of those commenters will one day be sitting at a funeral with a heart full of regret.
Sad.
The parents of some of those folks should rewrite their wills and honor their children’s desire to mot associate with them.
It's odd there has been a full court press on TikTok the last couple nights by moms complaining about their estranged kids but it's all their trauma dumping re toxic environment abuse etc and nothing about politics.
We have a family member that cut us off without a word about 15 years ago. Possibly on the advice of his therapist. But I think it's over politics as much as anything else because he had described himself as an extreme leftist.
I guess I'll have to ask some of these moms if they are overlooking the political aspect. Not that it's justified.
For some reason, the readership of the NYT/Wapo/NPR love this constant stories about Unhappy Thanksgivings with hateful family members. Is that because they're trying to subvert the holiday, or because the libtards never see anyone more conservative except at Thanksgiving or some holiday.
Next stop will be Christmas, oh sorry, I meant "The holiday". Where the MSM will full of stories of people who hate "The Holiday" or some aspect of it.
It seems, for most people, the only thing they love more than hearing their own opinions coming out of their own mouth is hearing their own opinions coming out of your mouth. Too late in life, I learned that the best response to hearing an opinion I disagreed with was simply, “You may be right.” Please pass the turducken.
You may be right Meade, but my Mother-in-law is a MSNBC Democrat. Telling her that she may be right would cause me to lose my turducken.
I simply nod my head and do not verbally respond to her craziness.
Many of my family members are conservatives, but I treat them the same way. Holidays are no time to talk politics.
Everyone I know leaves their politics at the door and enjoys Thanksgiving. The only exception was the annual post meal fight over Vietnam which occured for almost 20 years till the mid-90s. At which point my parents, aunts, and uncles, decided to call it a draw.
I don’t like to discuss politics with those on the other side. What’s difficult is that one of my family members and one of my best friends post terrible things about conservatives on FB multiple times a day. How we’re evil, immoral, etc. When I see these two women, they act perfectly fine. They know I support Trump. I scratch my head. I have moved to SpaceCity so there is now a physical distance but Xmas could be hard.
Happy Thanksgiving to Althouse, Meade, and the rest of this motley crew. I've spent essentially every Thanksgiving with my family and that of my Dad's little sister. That's a 70 year run. They'd have to join Antifa to be any farther from me politically, but it's never a problem. Counting both sides of the family I have over 40 cousins and I've always said what was great about a big family is forces you to interact with every different personality type and belief. I once said when a cousin complained that X was going to be at one of the family gatherings," he's family, he gets to come." If you don't want to put up with him, say hi and wander off to talk to someone else.
I'm just more blunt. "We're not here to hear your political opinions." Its a line I've used before.
Thanksgiving was my favorite day growing up.
Since my father’s brother married my mother’ sister and my mothers other sister was married to the best friend of one of my father’s brothers and my grandmothers were good friends Thanksgiving was a great time.
Politics were always on the table.
Great times.
"Are you celebrating in the old-timey style with a big group of family?"
We're celebrating in old-timey style with only three people. How can you convince someone that you no longer need a 20-pound bird when you no longer have 20 people at the table?
"Meade said...
Please pass the turducken."
Do you actually make Turducken? If yes did you learn of it from John Madden or was it an earlier family tradition?
My mother hosted a lovely Thanksgiving dinner and, after she died, my sister picked up the tradition for around 10 years. My niece assumed the mantle after her mother passed. Unfortunately, she has 3 brothers afflicted with TDS so traveling hundreds of miles to be sneered at and belittled isn't very appealing.
Besides, there's football all day! We purchased heat-and-eat dinners from a local gourmet market. We will camp out in the living room and watch our favorite teams get demolished.
Before my parent's divorce, Mid 60s Catholic, my sister used to say "I, (we), used to have more than 35 cousins, now I, (we), have none".
Thus a variation on Christopher B's very sage statement above.
Happy Thanksgiving all.
Maybe I'll go to Denny's for a turkey dinner. I hear they do a decent one.
We had a lot of lawyers in the family. After the whiskey flowed, there was always a large debate.
Happy Thanksgiving to Ann, Meade, and All Althousians, even the bums.
There are bums on left and right here. I try not to be a bum, but sometimes I am a bum. I apologize.
Cheers all.
Oh, let's get Sam and Clarence to retire and replaced by young, bright, Conservatives. 2026 and 2028 will make 2006 and 2008 look not so bad. Gonna be bad. A revolution is coming based on inflation, deficit/debt, and wealth inequality. If you have money and have thought about retiring to Switzerland, move now.
Welp, don't miss the bitter aftertaste for many of them.
BUMBLE BEE said...
We had a lot of lawyers in the family. After the whiskey flowed, there was always a large debate.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've no problem with a debate, with ideas heard and exchanged. But try that with someone who regards you as evil, simply for your political beliefs. It descends quickly into acrimonious name-calling. I'll pass, as I lack the time and inclination for it.
Life is too short to be used as a crash dummy for someone to vent their rage.
Happy Thanksgiving, Althousians!
My 91 year old mother is making Thanksgiving dinner for the family. I don't know where she finds the energy.
This Thanksgiving I'm especially thankful for our growing, diverse in every way, and still really happy family. We love seeing each other. Lots of hugging, chatter, and especially lots of kidding. In hindsight, the relentless kidding from birth on might be the ultimate secret to a never-ending happy family. Nobody can get away with being deadly serious for very long.
That's my wish for my country. Keep chattering. Keep kidding one another. And keep hugging. It's great to be one big, happy family.
For the first time in many years, my wife and I will not be hosting our son and my brother to overstuff ourselves with too much food for ten people. Old kitchen habits die hard, and my wife, who used to cook a lot now focuses on cooking too much a few times a year.
We have been invited to the big family dinner at our son's girlfriend's parents' house. Her birthparents are divorced but both remarried others among their friends and are just one big happy blended family. Or so I hear; our son has been hanging out with them a lot, here and at their lake house near Bolivar.
They are restaurant owners and devoted foodies, so my expectations are high.
I know nothing of their politics but suspect I'll be using the You May Be Right strategem a lot.
In Eugene, it is traditional to climb Spencer's Butte on Thanksgiving. It is not an active volcano, yet somehow it still gets taller every year. About once a decade, the weather is clear and the view from the top is wonderful.
Why is it so hard for someone to just say Can we please not talk about politics?
Because in the deranged purity spiral of the Left, Silence is Consent. No one is ever allowed to mind their own business when a leftist is in the room.
It was that way during the Jacobin "Reign of Terror" during the French Revolution, and it's the same with the modern Jacobins of the Democrat Party.
After speeches by Stalin, whoever was the first to stop applauding was denounced and taken out and shot. The same is true today for the fat little prick in North Korea.
And if you don't believe that there are tens of millions of people in today's Democrat Party who--if they could--would gleefully do the same with anyone who doesn't seal-clap wildly for Marxist economic policy, or for mentally ill, mutilated men who think they are actually women, you are a naïve fool.
Iman, in UK all persuasions I encountered, including wife a Tory MP, considered Trump a nut. And relieved this Yankee agreed.
We are celebrating in Denver area. Oldest son, daughter-in-law and 5yr old and 2yr old and my husband and myself flew out of Madison yesterday. First time traveling in Thanksgiving and to be honest the Madison airport was quick (like always) and Denver was not crazy! My youngest son and girlfriend are hosting. No discussions about politics - we hold different views, and that is OK. We are also going to celebrate my 70th birthday tomorrow!
Happy Thanksgiving to all and Happy 70 to me!
For the use that tories have been
I Ireland I have been very surprised by the number of people who express cautious admiration for Trump, even though it very dangerous socially to admit it. Of course, this is certainly not the majority opinion, especially in Dublin. Out in the country it is very different.
Ireland is full of "cowboys". The last time Garth Brooks (whatever you may think of him) played in Ireland, he performed 5 consecutive shows selling over 400,000 tickets. Ireland's population is under 5.5 million.
"I've encountered too many Leftists in the last few years who are obsessed with dragging others (usually unwillfully) into their political miasma."
Leftists aren't happy unless everyone is as unhappy as they are.
My sister lives in Madison and we were planning to visit her on Friday, but the bad weather forecast means we're putting it off a week. Winter has arrived in the Upper Midwest.
In the main, our family does well enough on holiday weekends, because we know we don't agree on some things but we are able to disagree agreeably for the most part.
“Iman, in UK all persuasions I encountered, including wife a Tory MP, considered Trump a nut. And relieved this Yankee agreed.”
I’m surprised they have time for that, given the fact they are in the midst of losing their country and all things British to the millions of invaders the Labour Party has opened the gates and welcomed in.
https://x.com/boot15_vu/status/1993237448319811872?s=20
Mel Robbins has been some kind of self-help guru for a long time. Now she's gone Ivy League? Maybe Avi Loeb, the Harvard aliens professor, could pair up with Marianne Williamson.
Yes. We are celebrating with my wife’s California family, all Democrats. In order to preserve familial ties we will remain silent about the substantive issues of our times including the immorality of their modern Democrat Party and the consequences of the dementia of their recent President.
A good rule for family gatherings is the one adopted by a very long-running traveling golf group: There are only three forbidden topics of conversation. 1. Politics. 2. Religion. 3. The Civil War.
For family gatherings, you probably want to add p___y (and golf?) to the list.
[I]n UK all persuasions I encountered, including wife a Tory MP, considered Trump a nut.
Same thing in Germany. But they are Germans, after all.
We are in Illinois celebrating with our oldest daughter and family. We never discuss politics during family gatherings so we're all good.
Have a Happy Thanksgiving.
Oh, it was really windy here yesterday and snow is predicted for Saturday when we are supposed to fly back to NJ. This might turn into an extended stay.
Won’t bore with the backstory, but life is too short to not try to get along with your family (and neighbors). We will never be the ones to cut off family. Our small family will eat soon with dear friends and neighbors, as my wife who loves to entertain is not a fan of cooking Thanksgiving meals (I love to do the turkey)
Lazarus: “[I]n UK all persuasions I encountered, including wife a Tory MP, considered Trump a nut.” Which no doubt helps explain the current state of affairs in Britainistan and Germany.
No politics, religion, or shop talk. Then you have to be interesting.
TDS is a mental illness that totally overrides reality in many people for whom delusional thinking was previously merely a neurosis.
DJT acceptable? Sure, I was born in a South where Jim Crow was acceptable.
It's always and only leftists/Democrat Party members who shun others who don't share their politics. Always.
Happy 70th Linda!! Cheers!
Well, it was great--about twenty people and by the time my wife and I left, three dogs (we love dogs).
There may have been some political talk* but I didn't hear any, and we discovered some mutual friends among the hosts and other guests (it is Memphis after all).
Girlfriend's grandfather, father, and an old friend played and sang some traditional and trad-based Blues after the meal
(it is Memphis after all).
*Spent a lot of time talking about Churchill, WWII, and the ACWABAWS but nothing current.
At the end of the day, when it comes to family relationships, you cannot push on a rope. When someone decides to shun or denigrate you because of your political beliefs, they've fanaticized themselves with a form of religion, and nothing less than your complete alignment with obeisance will suffice.
All you can do is choose to leave the door open, for them to enter 'when and if'. Or, you can choose to write them off.
“DJT acceptable? Sure, I was born in a South where Jim Crow was acceptable.”
You Democrats… if it ain’t the KKK, Jim Crow you’re creating, you were hanging people from trees or lampposts.
It's okay to say WASPs.
My oldest son is a big lefty, so much so he's been in Facebook jail several times. I just don't discuss politics with him. The most I say is to remind him in deep red Florida, where he lives, he's probably best served to keep his thoughts in check during the working day.
Post a Comment
Please use the comments forum to respond to the post. Don't fight with each other. Be substantive... or interesting... or funny. Comments should go up immediately... unless you're commenting on a post older than 2 days. Then you have to wait for us to moderate you through. It's also possible to get shunted into spam by the machine. We try to keep an eye on that and release the miscaught good stuff. We do delete some comments, but not for viewpoint... for bad faith.