I'm reading this in the Harvard Crimson: "As Summers Sought Clandestine Relationship With Woman He Called a Mentee, Epstein Was His 'Wing Man'/When former Harvard President Lawrence H. Summers was pursuing a romantic relationship with a woman he described as a mentee, he turned to a longtime associate for guidance: convicted sex offender Jeffrey E. Epstein."
1. "Peril" was the code name for the woman the 2 men were discussing. If the Crimson has correctly identified her, she was already a tenured professor — at the London School of Economics.
2. Stop and think about what Summers was saying when he wrote that his "best shot" for her to find him "invaluable and interesting" and to realize that "she can’t have it without romance / sex." I would interpret that to mean that he wanted sex (and romance) from her that he knew she didn't want. He just hoped she'd give it in order to receive professional and social benefits from him. No one should want sex that the other person does not want. It doesn't matter that you conceive of it as an even exchange because you are giving other benefits.
3. Imagine asking Jeffrey Epstein for advice on how to handle it!
4. I wonder how "peril" feels about all this — then and now.
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185 comments:
Transactional sex is the world's oldest profession.
"No one should want sex that the other person does not want. It doesn't matter that you conceive of it as an even exchange because you are giving other benefits."
Caller: Sex isn't a priority anymore.
Dr. Laura: Is your marriage a priority to you?
"No one should want sex that the other person does not want."
Truer words have yet to be written.
Earlier I may have referred to him as "Bill Summers" (and I know not why) but it is nice to see him finally get the publicity he deserves. More like this is needed. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, right!
Larry torched his professional credibility when he wrote the NYT long piece on how great Hillary’s economic plan of price controls and a centrally planned economy. This burns up any other credibility he had left…
So, it's now okay to throw Summers overboard. One more layer of the onion peeled back.
I disagree with this blanket statement:
No one should want sex that the other person does not want. It doesn't matter that you conceive of it as an even exchange because you are giving other benefits.
The reasons why one partner or the other "does not want" can vary so extravagantly, from a momentary impediment ("I haven't kicked my other lover out yet" or "damn if it wasn't that time...") to simple bad timing ("crap I have to go to Mom's in an hour") to a true unalterable objection ("actually I loathe you but cannot say so for professional reasons").
So contrary to the host's take, I believe a "no" is absolutely not always and every time an everlasting "no." And I have a lifetime of experience to prove it as both the pursued and the pursuer.
Perhaps it was simply worded poorly. Can an Althouse "no" actually be an everlasting and hard stop "no"? Interesting...
If the woman was already a tenured professor, there were three adults involved, and this is just crude guy talk and voyeurism.
But the masses demand it!
And before that the shock therapy that created the oligarchs
I guess he had burned his bridges with many because of his heretical take on gender
Thank you Harvard Crimson! Doing the job the NYT refuses to do.
Unasked for advice to Mr Summers: a woman knows in 30 seconds (or less) if she'll sleep with a man. If you're not picking up positive vibrations by meeting #3 it ain't happening Jeffery Epstein's counsel non-withstanding.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with "wanting" sex that the other person doesn't want. What would be wrong is forcing it on the other person when they don't want it. Otherwise, there would be no such thing as "married sex".
That was the next stupid thing after encouraging the vinklevossi not to sue zuckerberg
"U r..."
For a fleeting moment I was shocked by the jejune style of Harvard's leadership, but then I realized I'm better at probability theory than I thought.
One of the great things about AI is that attractive young scholars can use it, instead of men like Larry Summers, to get feedback on their papers.
But I was reliably informed that all of the stories in the Epstein files were bad ones about Trump. Oh, dear.
I know right btw why did epstein have an office at harvard
Summers has always been brilliant. But also unbelievably arrogant and pompous, with an inability to acknowledge when he's wrong. In his mind, he is never wrong.
So many of our 'experts' and best and brightest suffer from this. Perhaps that's what makes them great in a way, or they get that way from people praising them, looking up to them, constantly showering them with position and praise.
I heard a fairly recent debate with Summers and some other economically intelligent people recently. It was not pretty on Summers part. But he refused to acknowledge when he was wrong, and ended up cutting the thing short.
None of this has anything to do with 'Peril', but his assuming that she'd want to be with him because of his brilliance is a character flaw in people like Summers.
The more I hear of him, the less I care to listen to anything he has to say. Of course, my opinion of Larry Summers is like a gnat on a cow's ass to him, but I assume I'm not alone in that view.
I don't see any Presidents in the future reaching for his opinion on anything publicly.
Powerline agrees with me regarding the chimerical files. I couldn't have said it better, though I did.
"Like JFK, Jimmy Hoffa, and the Roswell aliens, the mystery will never be solved, nor will the mystery ever die."
Nah. There is no mystery to live or die, just disappointed fabulists; real-life Doctor Watsons theorizing without evidence. Althouse has a cadre of them who just won't STFU because they have nothing true or interesting to contribute.
Gee all these Epstein emails, 30,000 pages of new stuff just last week, every reporter in America combing through and yet not one corporate hack can find even one form of verified communication from Trump to Epstein. Nothing. Even that fake birthday card is really looking weird with no "original" of it appearing, only copies of photocopies (shades of Dan Rather's "disguise" for fake docs being employed).
Anyway the only mentions of Trump are from Epstein, who was consistently and paranoidly obsessed with Trump, or NYT "reporters" seeking dirt on Trump from Epstein directly. Then one day democrats realized Epstein and especially Giuffre were no longer useful to Get Trump Inc.
Now those two are no more. So? How long before Mr. Clinton is officially a liability and not an old wrinkly "ally?" Is there another state funeral in the near future?
I don't see a problem here. This is exactly how women talk about men.
Does anybody remember Privacy?!
To be charitable to Larry Summers I will suggest he was hoping that by being "invaluable and interesting", she would find him charming and that could be the basis for attraction. Much more so than men, women can grow attracted to a man based on things other than his physical appearance. Wit, slyness, humor, toughness, capacity to get things done, and many other masculine traits can endear a man to a woman. You can find examples on the internet of women finding otherwise physically unattractive people and characters attractive. I'm thinking of examples like Donald Trump and Tony Soprano. So perhaps Larry Summers is just hoping he could wow her with his influence and knowledge.
Presumably, the code name is riffing on the old Yellow Peril trope.
Summers was a terrible Treasury Secretary; especially when compared to Bessent.
“There's absolutely nothing wrong with "wanting" sex that the other person doesn't want. What would be wrong is forcing it on the other person when they don't want it.”
If we’re talking about thoughts alone then what you should want in that circumstance is that the other person would want you too. If in your mind what you want is to have sex with a person who doesn’t want you — in other words, if you’re fantasizing about raping them — then that’s wrong. It’s not a crime because you haven’t acted on it but it’s wrong. It’s wrong and you know it.
His best shot was at 2 AM
“In December 2005, Summers married English professor Elisa New, who has three daughters (Yael, Orli and Maya) from a previous marriage. He lives in Brookline, Massachusetts.”
So, in 2019 Summers was writing to Epstein about cheating on his wife. What a dog!
“U r better at understanding Chinese women than at probability theory,”
The ol' inscrutable Oriental trope.
I'll wait for the usual leftist cultists to call summers a "pedo"
I hate this whole prurient thing. If we could scrutinize the thoughts and musings of, say, Mick Jagger, Warren Beatty, Jack Nicholson and any rock star of the 70s-80s we would find the exact same. This is boilerplate womanizing. The women who let themselves get ensnared in it knew exactly who they were dealing with, although, being women, they probably thought they were the ones who would inspire the cads to lifelong monogamy.
That seems a nonsequitor
About chinese women,
As for the purely commercial transaction where money is exchanged for sex with a person who only wants the money and doesn’t want sex with you, my point easily and obviously applies. I think there’s something bad about you for wanting that. It’s usually the case that when you buy things that you want the seller only wants your money and it doesn’t otherwise benefit from handing over the merchandise. There can be exceptions to that, but in prostitution, the prostitute doesn’t want to have sex with you. The prostitute only wants the money. There are many things that are sold that you don’t buy because you don’t want them. You shouldn’t want sex with a person who doesn’t want to have sex with you. It’s irrelevant to my point that you could accomplish a consensual transaction.
“ No one should want sex that the other person does not want.”
The task in life for men is changing the latter part of that sentence.
No one should want sex that the other person does not want.
First, let me refer everyone to planetgeo's 7:22 comment - nothing wrong with wanting sex another doesn't want. Forcing sex on someone is what's wrong. How are you going to refrain from wanting something? Maybe the Buddha could have managed it... but I've never trusted that guy.
My own contribution is just this: if you want sex with someone of appropriate age and station relative to your own, to persuade that person to welcome your advances is 100% natural biologically and socially. Biologically speaking, there's even basis for coercion, which is why I support living in, you know, human society (and increasingly don't support living in a fundamentalist Islamic sub-society in the midst of "Westerners," since it seems for some reason they're setting themselves ever more in opposition to the "Western" value of not coercing or forcing sex on women and girls).
So if Summers was seeking advice from Epstein, of all people, on how to persuade this woman to sleep with him, his major error was in his choice of advisors, not in the advice he sought. But as John Henry points out, people who are brilliant in one area are susceptible to believing themselves in other areas - if Summers convinced himself that Epstein's "success" with "women" was a qualification, he probably just didn't question himself.
Yeah larrys judgement calls are terrible occassionally he does find a nut
“The women who let themselves get ensnared in it knew exactly who they were dealing with, although, being women, they probably thought they were the ones who would inspire the cads to lifelong monogamy.”
It is a corollary to my point that if you’re the person on the other side, the one who doesn’t want to have sex, that you should not have sex. You should always say no unless you actually want the sex. You should never allow sex to become your side of an in-kind transaction.
I dunno. I've had sex when I really didn't want to. That doesn't mean I didn't love her, but I did it for that health of the relationship.
It seems we're all focused on Althouse 's claim! I mean, Jesus approached it by saying that if you desire another man's wife, you've already committed adultery with her in your heart - basically, all fall short of the glory of God. We can all try to excise the evil we have within us, we will all fail, and we should all keep trying. To dismiss someone as being "wrong" (as in "immoral") for having an immoral thought but not acting on it is pretty facile. Christianity has traditionally viewed that scenario as a marker for someone, a sinner as are we all, trying hard to be good.
Does Althouse have a fixation on feminine modesty? Something really special about sex?
Thought experiment: in a society with no men there's no feminine modesty. Pussy is like kneecap or elbow, nothing special. Feminine modesty is aimed at men, to make the woman more desirable. Because of that, no sex unless I want it. Hard to understand. It sounds like resentment.
"“When I’m reflective I think I’m dodging a bullet,” he wrote. “Think right thing is to cut off contact. Suspect she will miss it. Problem is I will too.”
Doubt his wife is going to stick around much longer. but who knows?!
But discretion is repression or some such, of course what was epstein getting out of summers enabling him to use harvard facilities
If in your mind what you want is to have sex with a person who doesn’t want you — in other words, if you’re fantasizing about raping them
False dichotomy. I think Jamie's comment is spot on, especially the last 'graph. If there is any problem in this exchange it is the fact that Summers was communicating with Epstein. Trying to make this exchange into "Summers thinking about rape" is a distraction to the fact that Epstein was moving in circles with people far more connected to the Democrat establishment than to Trump.
Epstein's success at luring prominent American businessmen and politicians was innate fact that most men are insecure and governed by their sex drive.
What was ehud barak and bill burns part in this though
In early 80s, Harvard acknowledged its biggest problem was "sexual harassment of female students by male faculty". I can personally second that admission. It was rampant, know in detail of at least a dozen episodes in 1981 alone.
Can Trump sue Jazzmin (fake hair) Crocket(D)-
She called him a pedophile... on live TV.
Comment “disappeared” to protect your alias “Skinny Pete”…
You should always say no unless you actually want the sex.
I probably wouldn't have any children if I'd followed this advice. After the early, heady years of my relationship and marriage with my husband, my libido reverted to its former somnolent state, and sex became for me (as I told him) kind of like sushi: I'll never actually crave it, but set it in front of me and I'll thoroughly enjoy it. The "setting in front of" is the tricky bit, especially these days, and is more safely accomplished within a marriage.
Shouldn’t the word for student of a Mentor be Telemachus, instead of Mentee?
Suspect analogy!
"Come out Virginia,
Don't make me wait
You Catholic girls start much too late
Ah but sooner or later it comes down to fate
I might as well be the one."
"Don't run back inside, darling
You know just what I'm here for
So you're scared and you're thinking
That maybe we ain't that young anymore
Show a little faith, there's magic in the night
You ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright
Oh, and that's alright with me"
"I'll never be your beast of burden
My back is broad but it's a-hurting
All I want for you to make love to me
I'll never be your beast of burden
I've walked for miles, my feet are hurting
All I want for you to make love to me
Am I hard enough?
Am I rough enough?
Am I rich enough?
I'm not too blind to see
I'll never be your beast of burden
So let's go home and draw the curtains
Music on the radio
Come on baby make sweet love to me
Am I hard enough?
Am I rough enough?
Am I rich enough?
I'm not too blind to see
Oh, little sister
Pretty, pretty, pretty girls
Ooh, you're a pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty girl
Pretty, pretty, such a pretty, pretty, pretty girl
Come on, baby, please, please, please"
Just a few examples, but I think at least a quarter of popular music and entertainment is based on guys trying to convince reluctant girls to have sex with them.
Cyrano de Bergerac?
After reading Ann's link the other day about the women who was one of Epstein's girls - and how she stayed despite the strange red-room ambush sex... often with other women as Epstein looked on.. it made me wonder why these women kept going back.
Oh yeah - money.
Harvard acknowledged its biggest problem was "sexual harassment of female students by male faculty".
Lord, not just Harvard! Sexual harassment of female students seemed to be some kind of droit de seigneur or something, particularly among the tenured.
Heartless Aztec 7:12 am nails it.
You won't need to much persuadin'
I don't mean to sound degradin'
But with a face like that you got nothin' to laugh about
Red lips, hair and fingernails
I hear you're a mean old Jezebel
Let's go upstairs and read my Tarot cards, come on, honey
Keyu Jin is a knockout!
Actually shes much more interesting than summers
The daughter of a finance minister subsequentlh ended up on the board of credit suisse maybe we have this story backwards
Keyu Jin Author of The New China Playbook — Keyu Jin https://share.google/vsAsRvRM26Kq5B7qw
There is a trend of women, especially young women, pursuing men because men are no longer keen on pursuing women. The professor seems to be implying that every single one of these women, especially the ugly ones, are rapists.
I also think Larry gets a pass on this one for two reasons. First, we live in such an appearance-focused society that we can easily forget about a person’s value beyond their looks. Being attractive is seen as the key to success, happiness and acceptance. This overwhelming emphasis on beauty has serious consequences on mental health and even social values. Let's not reinforce these terrible attitudes!! And, second, how about some common sense relationship advice? Being emotionally attracted to someone, especially a wealthy, well-educated someone, is the basis for a good relationship. Looks are temporary.
So I looked it up and Larry Summers is married and was married at the time of his comment to Epstein. To me at least, his cheating on his wife and wanting to cheat on his wife seems the far greater failing than hoping to have sex with a woman who he believes is not physically attracted to him.
"You should never allow sex to become your side of an in-kind transaction." Spoken like a true romantic. I wonder, would Jane Austen quite agree?
I'm maybe not as smart as I think I am, but I'm old enough to know better than to advise people how to structure their sex life and their thinking, about same. If you beleive two people are thinking the same thing about the sex they're having, just imagine three people.
Larry Summers got burned to the ground for publicly saying that - as a general proposition - woman aren’t as good at math and science than men.
Larry’s asking a pedophile for advice on how to cheat on his wife is a much bigger deal.
There was Nately's whore in Catch-22, who refused his romantic advances with disgust. Money was the thing.
To add on to my earlier comment, if 'Peril' slept with Larry Summers knowing that he was married at the time, she committed a far greater wrong than any man who actively pines for a woman who he believes is not physically attracted to him.
The joke is on both epstein and summers if you look at it tue right way
Somebody didn’t go to the HR training.
Need a keyword "Bad Relationship Advice"
If you beleive two people are thinking the same thing about the sex they're having, just imagine three people.
I nearly shot coffee out of my nose at this.
I'll never be your pizza burger
@Dave Begley @8:44, in point of fact he got burned to the ground for merely suggesting the possibility that woman might have different on-average capabilities and preferences from men with regard to STEM. It was probably the most milquetoast thing he's ever said.
"You shouldn’t want sex with a person who doesn’t want to have sex with you" Depends on the meaning of want. Strict application would stifle many potential relationships and complicate even otherwise good marriages.
"You should always say no unless you actually want the sex." Depends on the meaning of "want the sex." One can want the sex as sex or, quite legitimately, as means to a higher end.
In general, you should not live by general rules.
’Pussy is like kneecap or elbow, nothing special.’
I now have a clearer lens with which to view your comments.
Sorry about the double posting, but: forget sex, this is the truly discrediting thing:
"Imagine asking Jeffrey Epstein for advice on how to handle it!"
It's not just another horny guy getting tips from a plyaboy. Our overlords, Clinton to Summers to Gates to Plaskett, MIT and Harvard, sought that guy's "advice." Not only did they have no problem with him, they happily connected with him. The rot goes deep and wide.
They wanted donation he wanted status if not respectability
“Pussy is like kneecap or elbow, nothing special.”
How did I miss that one?!?!
Hardin would feel quite at home, rubbing elbows with these fellas…
https://x.com/OntWtf/status/1989417178047881412?s=20
It doesn't appear that Summers was guilty of anything criminal. I strongly suspect that is what we are going to learn about the entire trove of Epstein files- lots of association with Epstein but nothing crossing the line into criminality. Epstein would have been a fool to retain any incriminating evidence anywhere other than in his head.
God has so constructed the human race that women with an apathy approaching outright disgust can have sex with a man. Although there are men who can rise to the occasion--on any occasion--too much disinterest inhibits their performance. This is God's plan. He wants smart, ugly men to work hard so that they can win the attention of pretty girls, and he wants pretty girls with half a brain to marry rich men.......There are other paths to happiness for smart, ugly men and for poor, good looking women, but this is definitely a path.
Define "want" here. I want to have sex with Sydney Sweeney even though I know her reaction to the idea would be, "Eeeewww."
Give Summers a break. He's texting with Jeffrey Epstein about sex and it's miles away from pedophile related. He should be celebrated for his normal sex drive. Also, it sounds like Summers is trying to get help from Jeffrey Epstein on how to convince this woman to have consensual sexual relations with him via persuasion and not by force, blackmail or manipulation.
Prince Andrew seems to be the only one in Epstein social net who has suffered dire consequences for his actions.
I think mentoring from Larry Summers in exchange for sex is a great deal! How do I get in touch with him?
I met Summers a couple of times, I’ve learned economics from Summers but I can tell you no woman should be physically attracted to Summers. Sure be attracted to his credentials and we all know economists are sexy but physically attracted to him? No…
"... Epstein would have been a fool to retain any incriminating evidence anywhere other than in his head. ..."
I was thinking that the entire purpose of Epstein's lifestyle was to explicitly gather it, given the extent and sophistication of his surveillance systems.
Where did his money come from, and how did he acquire it, and what were his credentials for the path he walked? I'm pretty sure this question has been answered.
"Yancey Ward said...
...Epstein would have been a fool to retain any incriminating evidence anywhere other than in his head."
Unless Epstein & Maxwell were involved in a honey-pot sexual blackmail scheme on behalf of one or more Intelligence agencies.
I'm expecting a full on attack on Summers tonight on MSNBC. Former President of Harvard! Former Treasury Secretary!
And how is Mr Summers' relationship with Mrs Summers going?
She may have not wanted it, but it’s a woman’s prerogative to change her mind.
I've had sex when I really didn't want to. But my hand is so insistent....CC, JSM
Summers is a dirty economist. Go look at his record. Like the disgust "Dersh" - its no surprise he''s mixed up with Epstein and getting "massages" on Pedo island.
As for Summers. Most unattractive men realize that at an early age and adjust their desires. You aint' gonna get a "10". Maybe try for "5" or a "4". But then there are exceptions, like Summers, who are constantly trying to "score" and get into bed with attractive women outta their league.
Epstein understood the way to blackmail and reward such men.
Oh noes anyways
I expect an invire from the usual suspect to dr jin
Kai Akker--back in the days of very poor audio, my wife's then roommate sincerely believed that the words were "I'll never leave your pizza burning."
I can't hear the song without hearing it that way. It works.
This lady is Asian and Summers is referring to her as "Peril?" As in "Yellow Peril?" Bloody hell. The kids suing Harvard for anti-Asian discrimination could have used this as Exhibit A. CC, JSM
There's an ick/cringe factor at work here. Although she didn't know he was soliciting advice from Epstein, she accurately intuited that there was something off about him. Many but not all women have good ick/cringe radar. Men can overcome many obstacles to make themselves appealing but it's hard to get past ick/cringe.
"As Summers Sought Clandestine Relationship..."
Tom Wolfe referred to the press in "The Right Stuff" as a hypocritical "Victorian Gent" deeming what is "proper" and what is not on a flexible basis according to circumstances. A good example right here.
Yeah, Epstein "knew" things about people. That was his leverage. People confided in him because they thought he had connections. And he did, but it was all bootstrapped. Just another character from a Fitzgerald or Hemingway novel.
No one should want sex that the other person does not want. It doesn't matter that you conceive of it as an even exchange because you are giving other benefits.
Ok, that's fine. (We'll leave aside the question of "what do you do when you've married someone, with the agreement of regular sex, and the other person decides to no longer engage in that part of your agreement? Do you decide 'I just don't want sex' then? Do you just get divorced? What if you have kids?")
What other benefits are "off limits" for you to want if the other person doesn't want to get them? Or is sex the only thing for which there can be NO "fair exchange"?
Wasnt dr jin the subject of a thread some months back
If Larry had watched “Guide for the Married Man,” he would have known that these things never work out well.
https://althouse.blogspot.com/2020/10/millennials-in-china-look-askance-at.html?m=1 some years back
She's Asian? And that's why she's "Peril"? I would have guessed that they called her that because her name was "Beryl" or "Meryl."
That strange habit of reducing people to numbers: if that's the game, I think it's more likely that a 2, like Larry, was pining for a 6 than for a 10.
Just what the daughter of a finance minister would say
Ann Althouse said...
“There's absolutely nothing wrong with "wanting" sex that the other person doesn't want. What would be wrong is forcing it on the other person when they don't want it.”
If we’re talking about thoughts alone then what you should want in that circumstance is that the other person would want you too. If in your mind what you want is to have sex with a person who doesn’t want you — in other words, if you’re fantasizing about raping them — then that’s wrong. It’s not a crime because you haven’t acted on it but it’s wrong. It’s wrong and you know it.
Is prostitution rape?
We make "exchanging sex for favors at work" illegal not because there's no one who'd be willing to freely take the trade, but because if that's allowed, then those who wouldn't normally be willing to take that trade are forced into it in order to compete with those who WILL put out, in order to get a promotion, etc.
How many less talented but cute female grad students have gotten support over more talented but male grad students, because of that cuteness? Should they be banned from selling their presence for support?
Or is it ok for them to disadvantage their more talented male classmates, it's just wrong for the professor to get anything more than "cute female around me" in exchange for his aid?
"'U r better at understanding Chinese women than at probability theory,' [Larry] Summers told [Jeffrey] Epstein."
That's because she probably won't have sex with him again.
They were just looking for friends with "benefits".
That said, keep women affordable, available, reusable, and taxable, and the "burden" of evidence aborted, sequestered in sanctuary states.
The trans grooming affair in the closet by males in superior positions was another branch in social progress.
Pedo is the third leg of the liberal triad.
Leslie Graves said...
One of the great things about AI is that attractive young scholars can use it, instead of men like Larry Summers, to get feedback on their papers.
Why is it OK for "attractive young scholars" to get more support than the "unattractive young scholars"?
How about "One of the great things about AI is that it levels the playing field between the sexually desirable and those the professors do not sexually desire"?
Note: female professors, including the lesbians, can be predatory, too. As can be the gay male professors, not just the Larry Summers of the world.
The practical difficulty with Ann’s approach is that survey after survey confirms that while men rate about 50% of women as “above average” in sexual attractiveness, women only rate 20% of men as above average. And that includes men who are sexually attractive for reasons other than their Brad Pitt looks, eg their success, status etc.
This does not betoken female mathematical failings it just means that most women don’t find most men inherently shaggable. Consequently if all men and all women were to follow Ann’s advice, one fifth of men would be servicing the entire female population and four fifths of men would be incels. This would have serious implications for how child raising was to be financed, as well as for male-male violence, as the losers would respond to their lack of nookie.
In short unless a majority of women are willing to sleep with men they don’t really fancy, carnage is the order of the day. In practice most women are willing to settle in return for non sexual favors from men. This is a very ancient deal and it’s not gonna change any time soon.
Is the current Mrs. Summers going to divorce Larry? Happy Holidays!
ALL i know is - judging by his photo - Larry Summers is not in the 20 percent that women find attractive.
Ann Althouse said...
You shouldn’t want sex with a person who doesn’t want to have sex with you.
If the point of the sex is "emotional bonding", that is clearly true. But if the point of the sex is "I want an orgasm", why should it matter whether the person WANTS to give you one, rather than "is willing to give you one in exchange for considerations"?
Why is your moral code the only one allowed?
Note: I much prefer "making love" to "getting laid" (and note: "getting laid" routinely happens with people who are happy to have sex with you, but don't love you. "Sex with someone who doesn't WANT to have sex with you" is a subset of "getting laid", but it's not the whole of it). And to the best of my knowledge I've never "bought" sex ("trading favors for sex" is a subset of "bought sex")
I do not challenge your personal belief that you will never want to have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you. in fact, I share it.
I DO question your belief that you can impose that morality on everyone else
Peril = Yellow Peril = funny.
Another question: Is Harvard going to fire Larry Summers?
Dave Begley said...
Is the current Mrs. Summers going to divorce Larry? Happy Holidays!
Remains to be seen. That being said; when the files come out you'll see the Left drop the whole thing like a hot potato. Dershowitz has seen the files and has said that there were a lot more Democrat names in there than Republican.
I think the odds are high that one or the other of the men don't know how to spell "Pearl".
"New [Mrs. Summers] suggested Epstein [read] the novel Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov, a book about a middle-aged professor who manipulates and sexually abuses a 12-year-old girl. She also recommended that Epstein read My Ántonia by Willa Cather. New described the books to Epstein as stories of “a man whose whole life is stamped forever by his impression of a young girl."
I'm drawing the line here! Don't drag Nebraska into this Epstein-Summers scandal.
Not that many women who have much to talk about with an off the charts IQ like Summers that won’t bore him to tears, but all men have their drives.
BTW, Lefties are already doing gaslight prep by posting that Trump and Bondi have altered the files.
https://twitter.com/catturd2/status/1990364097482047927?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Yancey Ward said...
I think the odds are high that one or the other of the men don't know how to spell "Pearl".
C'mon Yancey! They're both liberal Jews! It's nearly as impossible for them to be racists as it is for a Black person!
So I looked it up and Larry Summers is married and was married at the time of his comment to Epstein. To me at least, his cheating on his wife and wanting to cheat on his wife seems the far greater failing than hoping to have sex with a woman who he believes is not physically attracted to him.
" I moved on her actually. You know she was down on Palm Beach. I moved on her and I failed. I’ll admit it. I did try and fuck her. She was married....No this was— And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, ‘I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.’ I took her out furniture– I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there. And she was married.">"No this was— And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, ‘I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.’ I took her out furniture– I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there. And she was married."
Yancey Ward said...
Epstein would have been a fool to retain any incriminating evidence anywhere other than in his head.
Really, Yancy? "Criminal is stupid and saves incriminating evidence he shouldn't" is pretty much "day ending in 'y'". No, it's more like "minute that has a number in it."
Is there something about Epstein that says "brilliant criminal mastermind" to you?
We use the word “complicated” to describe people whose behavior is contradictory depending, but really they are generally simple, just blind to it.
Well that was stupid advice
But it seems like flirting reading between the lines
"No one should want sex that the other person does not want."
Don't forget that the original meaning of "want" was "lack".
And who ever met a woman who knows what she wants?
"No one should want sex that the other person does not want." Too many gray areas for this to be very operational. In most situations it's not so clear cut, and I'm not sure it should be incumbent on the man to figure out "Does she really want this, or is she just hoping to get something out of it?" As in "Does she only want me for my money, or is my money a turn-on for her?" The corollary (You should always say no unless you actually want the sex) is more practical, but I suspect often the woman herself isn't always sure.
Some of you are dancing around the problem of a man who knows himself to be physically unattractive and might therefore find my suggested rule of personal ethics to be faulty.
I have 2 pieces of advice:
1. Don't seek advice from another man who is much more attractive than you and has lived his life with looks privilege (which is what Summers did with Epstein, if the quotes are real).
2. Endeavor by trial and error to find your level: a woman (or if you are gay, a man) who is about as attractive as you are. You want to be loved for your wit and kindness and impressive skills, so find someone who looks as bad as you do and be impressed by her various good qualities. There is someone for everyone. There's no one so physically ugly that does not have a counterpart who is also looking for love.
Wow, Prof, that is middle school popular girl logic. CC, JSM
These are the men you've cultivated here who hit your tip jar regularly, ann.
Mrs Summers isn't going to leave her husband. He secured millions of dollars to advance HER poetry career via a non profit. Whores, all of them...
Lots of other ways for an ugly guy to get willing sex from a girl out of his league:
- bring her to the USA from her shithole country, so she lives longer and doesn’t have to give coerced sex to government thugs or gangsters.
- give her a material standard of living that none of the hot guys available to her can give.
- take care of her kids from the last guy(s), and make new ones to help keep you together.
- refuse to put up with her shit. Guaranteed panty-flooder.
- do housework. I have been told over and over that women find this hot. I still may start my “Domestic Daddy” onlyfans. CC, JSM
Imagine you are 15th percentile attractive as a guy. Will finding a 15th percentile attractive gal solve your problem ? No. You may be happy to sleep with her but that doesn’t mean she’ll be willing to sleep with you. She still doesn’t find you attractive and she will probably prefer to be a bit on the side for a more attractive guy. Even if it’s only twenty minutes worth.
But if you can throw something else into the deal - like cash, or dinner or a roof, or maybe just an arm so she can show her gal pals that she can get a guy for more than a 20 minute thing, then maybe you’ve got a chance.
Ann’s find your own level theory doesn’t work because men and women have different ideas about levels.
But if you’re an ugly guy and you’re inclined to, or at least willing to, go gay, then you’re fine. Lots of guys will be willing to spend twenty minutes with you. An orifice is an orifice, after all.
Guys and gals are different. Sorry about that.
"do housework. I have been told over and over that women find this hot"
I do not think there is any woman that has ever found it attractive that a man is doing housework, excluding some women with some heavy manual labor that involves getting sweaty doing feats of strength. But, I do think it is much harder for women to get in the mood if the kitchen is a mess, the living room is a sty and all the laundry still needs to be folded. Men can compartmentalize that stuff better and always be ready to go.
The Mentor's Regret:
We had joy, we had fun
We had Summers in the sun,
But the wine and the song
Like the Summers are all gone.
"Define "want" here. I want to have sex with Sydney Sweeney even though I know her reaction to the idea would be, "Eeeewww.""
Yes, but presumably what you want is a scenario in which she wants you. You "know" she'd reject you just like you know you're never going to be in a position to make a play for her. You're not thinking of having her while she is disgusted with you... unless you are, which, if you did, you'd be committing a sin.
"I think mentoring from Larry Summers in exchange for sex is a great deal!"
You are rooting for what is sexual harassment in the workplace. It creates different working conditions for different employees. Some are "favored"/favored with offers, which they may feel threatened into taking or may snap up enthusiastically, but then everyone else in the workplace has to compete without that special access.
’…do housework.’
I have a maid, so that doesn’t move the needle. Cooking well, on the other hand, is quite the valuable skill. Chicks dig it. Bigly.
“I’ve never had a drink in my life, and I don’t take drugs… I always would say to my kids: ‘No drugs, no alcohol, no cigarettes.’ Whenever I see them, ‘No drugs, no alcohol, no cigarettes.’ I think it worked.”
…and stay away from people like Jeffrey Epstein, Billy Bush, and Bill Clinton.
William, Prince Andrew got slapped by his family, unlike any other Epstein-phile Im aware of. The implications of this fact, regarding the relative morality of the UK monarchy vs other more democratic elites, I find quite amusing.
Like tall, handsome guys and hot women have not always had an easier ride in life. What upsets people is when it’s openly acknowledged.
john mosby said...
“…do housework. I have been told over and over that women find this hot. I still may start my “Domestic Daddy” onlyfans. CC, JSM”
Yea, you have to wash the sheets and make the bed, only to muss them all up a few minutes later, and then have to remake the bed. Again.
Highflying academics don't take their marriage vows very seriously. Summers' wife may be living in Arizona or on the road working on her own PBS project, and when the cat's away ...
Larry's parents were both economists. His paternal (Robert Samuelson) and maternal (Kenneth Arrow) uncles were both Nobel Prize winners in economics. That may have given him a great sense of entitlement.
No, Lee Moore…
the holder was Way
and the kicker Matt Gay
kick no good Way Gay
…the relative morality of the UK monarchy vs other more democratic elites, I find quite amusing
I concur though speaking of morality it was no secret Andrew was mom’s favourite and while much was known before her death his banishment came after…
I would never refer to my Chinese GF as "Peril". Maybe "Fever", IDK.
tolkein said...
“And how is Mr Summers' relationship with Mrs Summers going?”
I would have to think it’s Falling to the “Winter of our discontent”.
"Ann’s find your own level theory doesn’t work because men and women have different ideas about levels."
Just keep descending until you find success: that's your level.
Like haley atwell or kate beckinsale an improbable situation
…and stay away from people like Jeffrey Epstein, Billy Bush, and Bill Clinton... and P. Diddy!
Why does everyone always forget the Trump/P. Diddy bromance!?
Ann: I have four pieces of advice:
1) Don't presume that you know how men should communicate with each other.
2) Don't make judgements about intent with facts not in evidence
3) Don't presume that men aren't taught from an early age that you don't have to prove some source of value to a female to Garner sex.
4) Your lookism is showing, eg unwanted male interest really means that an ugly dude is making a play on a female.
Oh, let me have a little bit of peril… - Sir Galahad
Peril might suggest his level of risk
’Just keep descending until you find success: that's your level.’
911: ‘What’s your emergency?’
Beasts: ‘I’ve just witnessed a rhetorical homocide…’
Is it any wonder? When the nation’s public school system and our colleges and universities prioritize teaching our youth to hate America and use crayons to color the “Genderbread Man” coloring book?
Sexual Harassment and You - Saturday Night Live
I have concluded after many years that women view unwanted male attention the way straight men view unwanted gay male attention: as a threat on a very fundamental level, maybe an implied threat of physical violation. But maybe moreso than that, an attack on one's self-image: in the woman's case, "how dare you think I would stoop to your level!?" and in the straight guy's case, "how dare you think I'm gay!?" CC, JSM
Transsocial, when unattractive. Transgender, a divergent perception.
I'm with Anne on this one: I don't want to have sex with anyone who in their minds is secretly (or not) thinking "ick." It's okay to want someone to want you. It's not okay to fuck them even if you know they don't want you. That's repulsive.
Maybe Althouse misunderstands penetration. A woman's vagina isn't inside the woman. Topologically it's outside.
A knife stab is penetration.
The woman not wanting sex isn't in the important case thinking "ick." She's thinking inconvenience, needing to clean up, and why should I bother just because HE wants it.
Sex and sexual are disparate but socially congruent conceptions.
Here I thought people would be talking about Larry Summers and Jeffrey Epstein.
As for wanting sex with someone not into it; even if it is a steady relationship, why would you want to do it when they aren't into doing it at the moment? I find sex far more enjoyable when I'm pleasing my partner. I get it is possible to orgasm even when the other gets nothing out of it, and technically the orgasm suggests you enjoyed it, but it seems something less when the partner gets nothing out of it.
Intercourse should be a consensual pleasure, otherwise you're doing it wrong.
What ever happened to playing hard to get? So 20th Century?
"You are rooting for what is sexual harassment in the workplace."
Yeah, right. And so what? Giving her a line of coke is against the law too. But she sniffs it right up.
Ann Althouse said:
"so find someone who looks as bad as you do and be impressed by her various good qualities."
LOL. I like that a lot.
I recall a friend arguing back in like '75 that no,no,no didn't necessarily mean no. And he was more gentleman than not.
In fact strictly speaking it works better if the woman doesn't actively want sex specifically. It gives her an opportunity to show her mate that she's satisfied with him. Third step in the loop
1. Woman sends man on quest.
2. Man goes on quest but typically or often screws up.
3. Woman shows man she's satisfied with him.
which can repeat forever. She's satisfied with willingness.
Cut out #3 and it becomes nagging.
Feminism has no particular man in mind so is cut off from #3 and is always and only nagging.
I have to laugh, Althouse. You really want sex to be something where the Prince and the Princess nobly -- oh, so nobly -- entertain a discreet, mutual admiration. He asks the King for her hand, and to her secret satisfaction, that longed-for boon is granted.
Lust, baby! Lipstick and eye-shadow! Pole in hole! Grab 'em by the pussy! Steal a kiss behind the gym! Sheer silk stockings and corsets! It's just as easy to love a rich man!
Biology really could not care less about your candy-ass proscriptions. After all, the future of the species is what's at stake here. You don't wanna play that game, get your sorry ass off the field! Get thee to a nunnery!
Ann : “Just keep descending until you find success : that’s your level.”
That’s not how it works. How it works is “if you can’t find a woman willing to sleep with you because of your looks and charm, find one willing to sleep with you for some other reason.”
If you’re in the bottom 15%, maybe even the bottom 25%, you’re not going to find any woman willing to sleep with you for your looks and charm alone. Evah. Or at least Evah without the use of string liquor or narcotics. At which point “willing” is being tortured.
I don’t understand why this seems so difficult to grasp. Think about jobs. There are some really fun jobs that most people would be willing to do for free, just because it’s fun and fulfilling. But most jobs no one will do for free. They require actual cash, or some kind of other compensation .And thusly for ugly guys.
And while I'm being offensive, would you give the same advice to women? Would you say that a lousy tenured professor of economics should know better than to aspire to having sex with the President of Harvard?
When I see an unattractive man with a much more attractive and/or younger woman, I presume the man is wealthy. And I'm usually right, if I find out. But whether that's transactional, or the woman finds wealth or power to be an aphrodisiac, is usually unknowable.
Yancey Ward said...
"Define "want" here. I want to have sex with Sydney Sweeney even though I know her reaction to the idea would be, "Eeeewww."
“You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.”
- W Gretzky.
Attraction is realized in a constellation of correlations.
"find your level"
That's ugly as sin coming from a person blessed with good looks.
Just keep descending until you find success: that's your level.
Ah, but times have changed. Due to the media telling women to "never settle," Disney's "your prince is out there" marketing, and casual hook-ups with Chads by mid-level women facilitated through internet dating, there are large numbers of men for which no descent is deep enough.
An explanation on YouTube: Men with no hoes... where are you?
Sex between two people in a relationship is way too complicated to narrow down to discussion levels in just several paragraphs. Althouse's initial take wasn't explained enough (for me, at least) to interpret what situation she was commenting on. I do know that in a committed relationship (maybe marriage), one partner engages in sex even if she or he doesn't really want to because it pleases the partner and they want to please the partner. It is NOT submission and certainly not rape. And I forget who said it regarding Dr. Laura's answer, but if you want your marriage to succeed, you better be prepared to please your partner and that includes sex. Not all the time. Not the craziest fantasies. Women divorce men because they get bored. Men divorce women (instead of cheating) because of lack of sex.
She was flirting and summers couldnt figure out why
Also: good for Peril for not sucking some fuckhead's dick to advance her career.
(We are looking at you Kamala.)
Chinese girls are so gentle, they're really such a tease
You never know quite what they're cookin', inside those silky sleeves
"Just keep descending until you find success: that's your level."
The Tinder theory of romance.
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