Says the Editorial Board of The Washington Post, in "The penny is dead. Long live inflation. The U.S. has stopped making cents. Declining purchasing power will make us penniless."
What's so "practical" and "facilitated" about something that kept not happening? We'd have been waiting forever. At this point, the nickel needs to go too. Let Congress step up and end the nickel... and specify when and how to round. For now, we can all be glad that the beneficial and obvious step has been taken at long last. Trump haters can enjoy the additional pleasure of adding another item to the list of Unconstitutional Things Trump Has Done.
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94 comments:
It’s the fault of Congress yes…
besides lefties if trump does it you get a little blip in inflation
What needs to happen but is not happening is that there must be a law to prescribe how businesses round cash transactions. The President cannot make that law. Even if one agrees that the penny should go, getting rid of it leads to conflicts between businesses and consumers.
Expediency is no excuse for ignoring the law.
"besides lefties if trump does it you get a little blip in inflation"
Or not. The corner minimart where I get an occasional soft drink has rounded the price of those drinks down.
The penny is not viable, the nickel is fickle, and the dime is a burden in time. Abort.
This is just retarded. Nobody cares, except TDS idiots. People throw pennies away, and have been for a long time.
"Retailers want a new law that would allow them to round prices to the nearest nickel for cash transactions..."
Is there a law regarding rounding to the nearest cent for things priced "2 for 89 cents" or "3 for a dollar"? What's wrong with using *that* law?
“a law to prescribe how businesses round cash transactions.“
Why?
How about if each business posts its own policy and then customers can decide if they want to shop there
Credit/Debit purchases unaffected.
Since cash transactions don’t come with a transaction fee as card purchases do, we will always round down unless we have the pennies or customers do (plus no arguments).
Why do we have to have new laws?
"The task should have begun with Congress..."
And not District Judges? That might be a problem, says an Obama or Biden judge out there somewhere...
Reward them with your continued patronage…
Fuck ‘em.
No one needs a 'law' to round up or down... business can set their own prices. Say like GAS... 2.39 99/100 a gallon... that was done as a sales gimmick. It could eastly just be $2.40 a gallon.
Obamacents? The truth lies in obfuscation and hallucination.
’What needs to happen but is not happening is that there must be a law to prescribe how businesses round cash transactions.’
Businesses can round up or round down anytime they want. There’s no need for a new law. Wow.
Rounding would be a consideration for cash transactions. In the stock market, sub-penny executed trades are recorded with up to 6 decimal places, and are settled at the exact amount.
"The task should have begun with Congress..." Haha, I'm under the impression that bills to abolish the penny have been regularly proposed over the decades. It's not a concern that started with Trump. I've heard it's always the Representatives and Senators from Illinois ("Land of Lincoln") who keep the motions from passing. Congress is pretty much useless for anything practical. The best they seem to do is pump out countless partisan mousetrap bills with cute names.
’At this point, the nickel needs to go too.’
Probably. Although I hate to see Jefferson and Monticello removed from our coinage.
Office Space had an accounting scam where a penny was stolen from each account and deposited in the thiefs' account. Through a slip in programming it happened so often that it was hundreds of thousands of dollars a day. Also Jennifer Anniston with bling.
Rounding won't be rounding. Prices will always be the lowest possible that rounds up.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/01/magazine/worthless-pennies-united-states-economy.html
It was not long ago that there was a post here about healing sores by putting a penny on it. Trump is destroying health care in the US.
Once again, Trump does something that everybody agrees ought to be done but nobody does. They say Trump doesn't have authority to do this. OK--Maybe NOW Congress will do something.
Caution--the prospect of eliminating cash altogether is a real concern.
Also--can't retailers just post or put up a sign that says they are going to round up or down to the nearest dime, and do it?
I've heard it's always the Representatives and Senators from Illinois ("Land of Lincoln") who keep the motions from passing.
The zinc mining lobby would also like to have a word...
What a bunch of pussies. Sure, Jan. Everything was going just fine with the US dollar, before Trump became President. The real problem here is that Trump has no respect for the status quo.
Yes, the nearest dime. The nearest nickel just makes it harder for the youngsters who cannot add and subtract,
Josephbleau--also, the impact on the makers of penny loafers--who are already being hit hard--is incalculable.
The half cent was minted from 1793 to 1857 and was the smallest denomination of U.S. coinage ever produced. Its elimination in 1857 was due to declining purchasing power and the effects of inflation, which rendered it largely irrelevant in commerce. At its final value, the half cent had the purchasing power of 14 cents today.
Kroger still sells produce at prices like two pounds for three dollars. It's confusifaction.
I was stationed in the UK before they decimalized their currency. We were not allowed to have US pennies because they were the same size and weight as the UK sixpence, which was kind of like their dime. The US penny worked fine in vending machines.
“ Congressional deliberation would have facilitated solutions for the problems inherent in eliminating a coin that’s existed since 1793.”
Did the US, in 1793, have a coin with the same value as a penny has today? No, they did not, a penny in 1793 was worth about 33 cents in 2025 dollars. A 2025 penny would be worth 1/33 of a cent in 1793 money. Back then Spanish pieces of eight were legal tender, so let’s just break a dime into 10 pieces to make up for the penny, if anyone wants one, constitutional problem solved.
Does the WaPo editorial board really want to witness another shutdown, this time over the penny? (If Trump wants to abolish it, ipso facto, the penny is an essential part of our democratic norms!) That's what leaving it up to Congress means.
If Trump took a dump the media would say Hitler did the same thing.
If Biden crapped his pants on the job they'd say he eliminated government waste.
’…also, the impact on the makers of penny loafers--who are already being hit hard--is incalculable.’
Beef roll edges or flat strap?
they struggle to have the most absurd take
A nickel for your thoughts.
As a practical matter, you can't be producing specie for which the cost of production is greater than the face value of the coin.
Just wanted to say:
I empty my pockets of change every night into a tub. Every year I take it to the bank and run it through the change machine and get back $200 or so.
But I always just throw the pennies away. Not worth carrying.
I did not read the article nor all of the comments, but was there at any time a mention that the cost to produce EACH penny was something like 4 or 5 cents?
John Gorka Oh Abraham
I see a penny and I pick it up
If not the money
I could use the luck
And if it's face down
I turn it over
Head for Wood Avenue
Between Inman and New Dover
Back in my home town
Gas is cheaper where I'm from
But the driving's not so good
People go and stay where they should not
And they don't do it like I would
Work is not the same as before
More soft wear hands in the hardware store
Oh Abraham look at all the money now
Oh Abraham good night
It's your party but
I'll cry if I want to
I wouldn't care how much they have
If they would only do what's right
I was born by a Kerouac stream
Under Eisenhower skies
They saw freedom as a big idea
Now it was right before my eyes
They said Jack helped to build the Pentagon
And Ike built this interstate that we are off and on
Oh Abraham was it all about the money then
Oh Abraham good night
It's your party but
I'll cry if I want to
All moneyed up and charmed with might
So we are right, we're always right
We're right, they're wrong
Let them get their own song
Let them get their own song
I see a penny and I pick it up
99 more and I have a buck
Abe you were born in old Kentuck'
But we still miss you here
It's not the money. Lyrics site has if.
Mr Trump has nail fungus say WaPo: the Republic is in danger!!!
They should stop making paper $1 bills while they're at it. Have $1 and $2 coins with $5 being the smallest bill in circulation.
or use monopoly money colors, red yellow green
UTTHD - Like it. Ann credit for that one.
Does stopping penny production slow down inflation, as the money supply will be decreasing, per the Althouse economists?
Banks pay for the pennies. Money in equals money out.
Even if they stop coining new pennies, there's unlikely ever to be a shortage. Everybody has a stash of the goddam things.
There was a guy in California who collected a million pennies on a bet. Since the 70s. He couldn’t turn them into the bank. They wanted to charge him 3 to 4 thousand dollars. They weighed 5 to 7 thousand pounds so he had to rent a truck to haul them around. It was a funny story.
"Does stopping penny production slow down inflation, as the money supply will be decreasing..."
It's possible to stop minting pennies and still increase the money supply.
Just sayin'.
I found the story:
LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- A California man who collected 1 million pennies for a bet is having a hard time cashing in on his $10,000 fortune.
Ron England has amassed 3.6 tons of copper in his garage in the Los Angeles suburb of Granada Hills after making a bet with his brother 30 years ago that he could collect 1 million pennies.
But neither the U.S. Mint, the U.S. Comptroller of Currency, coin collectors nor the local bank is interested in cashing in his stash -- at least without a charge.
“I've been working seriously for the past two weeks to get rid of these pennies," England, 60, told the Los Angeles Daily News. "It's kind of frustrating. Nobody will take them without charging me."
What's worse. England is still waiting for his brother to honor his side of the bet -- a meal in Paris.
"I don't remember making the wager. Am I still good for it? I'm not going to answer that question," Russ England told the Daily News. June 2004
If it ends in a 6 round up, ends in a 5 round down. What effect does sales tax have on the final cost?
I lived in Australia when they dispensed with their penny. Rounding was simple; if transaction ended in 1 or 2 cents, it was rounded down to zero. Three or four rounded up to five.
We should adopt the pre-decimalization system that the Brits had, ha-pennies, sixpence, bob, etc, the whole shebang, including Pounds *and* Guineas, just for the mental exercise for the younguns.
I don't like the Nickle either. It's an obese coin. I'm for dropping all change. "We fear change."
From the U.S. Mint website:
"Under 31 U.S.C. § 5111(a) and § 5112, the Secretary of the Treasury has the authority to mint and issue one-cent coins in amounts deemed necessary to meet the needs of the United States. The Secretary may therefore suspend production upon determining that new coins are no longer needed.
We only want change we can believe in.
Rounding is a big nothingburger, just about any application of sales tax necessitates it. In Arizona, the sales tax rate is 5.6%–11.2% and Colorado is 2.9%–11.2% (avalara.com). Does anyone think there's not any rounding involved there?
As a former Democrat and reader of newspapers, I'm proud of their concern about the big issues and knowing when to exercise restraint and when to resort to outrage rather than just pouncing on every issue like a Republican.
Local stores here have already implemented this rounding policy for cash transactions. They have posted signs on the windows. They will still accept pennies for tender, though.
"A California man who collected 1 million pennies for a bet is having a hard time cashing in on his $10,000 fortune."
Google says :3.6 tons of clean scrap copper is worth approximately $26,640 to $32,400 in current scrap metal prices,
(Penny prior to change in composition 1982)
Scrap copper is worth about $3 per lb. So 3 tons of copper pennies would not be chump change. OTH, pennies have been copper coated zinc for many years and zinc is only about 50 cents a lb. Probably still worth more than the face value of the coins. Hence the reason to ditch the penny, they cost more to make than they’re worth.
If, say, Walmart or Target began to round up the the nearest nickel, several Attorneys General from progressive states would quickly bring lawsuits seeking significant fines.
"President Donald Trump did not have the legal authority to extend Daylight Saving Time unilaterally, as he has done. The task should have begun with Congress...."
A WaPo editorial I would very much welcome seeing.
Melting cents for their copper...
31 CFR § 82.1 - Prohibitions.
Except as specifically authorized by the Secretary of the Treasury (or designee) or as otherwise provided in this part, no person shall export, melt, or treat:
(a) Any 5-cent coin of the United States; or
(b) Any one-cent coin of the United States.
Seems everyone is missing the obvious solution- revaluing the dollar. For over 50 years a standard size candy bar was a nickel, until about 1969 or so. When I was about 14. now it's $2.00 or thereabouts. A 40X increase. It was a nickel when I was a kid, 6Print a whole bunch of new US Notes- not Federal Reserve Notes, put the government- not a semi-independent bank in charge of all currency- as it should be, and give everyone 3 months to turn in their Federal Reserve Dollars for new US Dollars at an rate of 40 Federal Reserve Dollars = 1 US Dollar. After which Federal Reserve Dollars become worthless as currency. Keep the pennies and nickels as 1¢ and 5¢, they're rounding errors in the great scheme of things. Mint new dimes and quarters and let people trade them in at any time. Businesses can stop accepting the old coins after, let's say, 6 months. Pain in the a-- to handle the conversion. And from that point on- don't inflate the currency. Bankers are the only people that make out from inflation.
Like at the Race Track, the dime break always goes to the house.
“give everyone 3 months to turn in their Federal Reserve Dollars for new US Dollars at an rate of 40 Federal Reserve Dollars = 1 US Dollar. After which Federal Reserve Dollars become worthless as currency.”
This is not a good idea. So many people in foreign countries hoard American dollars. The US dollar has an incredible reputation everywhere in the world (just not here, sadly). It’s people’s safety net, their talisman. People barter with US dollars all around the world.
It’s a bit disconcerting to me how many Americans are motivated to take their own country, this magnificent country down a peg.
Mason G @ 8:20 p.m.,
Good Lord what a horrifying discovery! If on any of my overseas trips I hadn't cleaned out the luggage well enough and there was a spare nickel or two in there, I'd be guilty of a crime? Yeah tell me we don't have too many laws.
Eva Marie said...
This is not a good idea. So many people in foreign countries hoard American dollars.
And they would have 3 months to trade them in. Also- a lot of hoarded US dollars overseas, from what I've read and understand, are counterfeit.
"If on any of my overseas trips I hadn't cleaned out the luggage well enough and there was a spare nickel or two in there, I'd be guilty of a crime?"
No. There are exceptions:
§ 82.2 Exceptions.
(a) The prohibition contained in § 82.1 against the exportation of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins of the United States shall not apply to:
(2) The exportation of 5-cent coins and one-cent coins carried on an individual, or in the personal effects of an individual, departing from a place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, when the aggregate face value is not more than $5, or when the aggregate face value is not more than $25 and it is clear that the purpose for exporting such coins is for legitimate personal numismatic, amusement, or recreational use.
“And they would have 3 months to trade them in. Also- a lot of hoarded US dollars overseas, from what I've read and understand, are counterfeit.”
You really don’t understand. (If they’re counterfeit then what does it matter.) Because of course every dollar turned in would be documented, wouldn’t it?
I hope this never happens. The US dollar means freedom to do many people around the world. You just don’t understand.
Yes, I think our currency should be like every other currency in the world. Why should we be special. BTW I liked this: “And from that point on don’t inflate the currency.”
If there’s such an easy fix it will be inflated even more. Over and over again.
“And from that point on don’t inflate the currency.”
This sounds suspiciously like depending on having the government do something that's been done over and over throughout history and expecting a different result this time.
So congress what the hell is stopping you?
When WAPO takes on Judge Boasberg let me know, until then I wouldn't wrap a fish in that rag.
So doing unconstitutional things is acceptable, such as calling for Coups II on Jan 6, 2029 - provided that Trump is still alive and talking to himself.
Canada hasn’t minted a penny since 2012. They seem to have figured it out. The IRS has been rounding to the nearest dollar for years. The tax-paying public doesn’t care.
The penny can remain a unit of currency, even if we don’t have any physical pennies for stores to hand out,
If a company’s lawyers are worried about liability when making change rounded to the nearest nickel, just tell them the new policy is to round the change up to the next nickel, and take the overage out of their salaries.
The good news is I just learned it's Rage Over a Lost Penny and not Anger Over a Lost Penny and it was Beethoven and not Mozart.
In anticipation of the minting of the final pennies, I dug out the old blue coin books from the collection my grandfather started for me way back when. I have Lincoln's from 1909, including the VDB (but not the highly prized S-VDB.I went and bought a couple new albums to cover the many years we weren't actively looking. Going though the penny jar (which is mostly nickels, dimes and quarters) I managed to get it mostly up to date. I haven't found any 2025s yet, but other than a few Ds (it takes them a while to get across the continent by Brownian motion), and figuring out the confusing mess in 1982, when they switched from copper to copper clad zinc, and changed the size of the dates all in one year it's pretty well filled in. I wonder if any of the grandkids will want it?
My wife keeps all the paper money. She lets me have all the shiny metal stuff. I'm not going to tell her this, but I'm getting the better end of that deal. I think.
Two questions...
Not sure if they still do it, but how come gas stations could advertise a gallon of gas at X and 9/10 cents?
This is before all of our times, but there was a half-cent coin until 1857. What happened when that was discontinued?
Interesting definition of good governance, Ann — who needs the rule of law when you like the results and it irritates the right people?
"So doing unconstitutional things is acceptable, such as calling for Coups II on Jan 6, 2029 - provided that Trump is still alive and talking to himself."
The Secretary of the Treasury, Scott Bessant, has statutory authority to decide how many of what coins get minted. Guess who he answers to.
Gas stations quoting the price per gallon in tenths of a cent are within the law:
“United States money is expressed in dollars, dimes or tenths, cents or hundreths, and mills or thousandths. A dime is a tenth of a dollar, a cent is a hundredth of a dollar, and a mill is a thousandth of a dollar.”
Back in the Five and Dime days, Missouri and other state and local jurisdictions had a mill token for sales tax on small purchases.
Who asked the Washpo for its thoughts?
"So doing unconstitutional things is acceptable, such as calling for Coups II on Jan 6"
Do you have a quote? And I am not talking about that fabricated splice job from the BBC, but an actual "call for a coup"?
Steve said...
“This is before all of our times, but there was a half-cent coin until 1857. What happened when that was discontinued?”
A Civil War broke out shortly thereafter.
Now say something about the vast shoals of dollar coins held -- never circulated -- by the Mint in DC. Even NPR did a story on that boondoggle.
Supposedly costs 3.7 cents to manufacturer every 2025 penny. Hopefully the nickel breaks even.
"Hopefully the nickel breaks even."
It doesn't.
"In FY 2024, the U.S. Mint’s cost to produce, manage, and distribute the 1-cent coin rose to 3.69 cents from 3.07 cents, a 20.2% increase. The unit cost for the 5-cent coin climbed to 13.78 cents from 11.54 cents, up 19.41%."
https://www.coinnews.net/2025/02/10/penny-costs-3-69-cents-to-make-in-2024/
We stopped making copper pennies after 1981. Now they’re just zinc plugs with copper paint.
Nobody wants them. The only reason we keep minting them is because of Big Zinc.
Paul said...
“No one needs a 'law' to round up or down... business can set their own prices. Say like GAS... 2.39 99/100 a gallon... that was done as a sales gimmick. It could eastly just be $2.40 a gallon.“
Where the hell are you finding gas for $2.40/gallon?
Rocco said...
Steve said...
“This is before all of our times, but there was a half-cent coin until 1857. What happened when that was discontinued?”
"A Civil War broke out shortly thereafter."
At one time the United States minted a silver 3 cent piece. And we once had a copper two cent piece.
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