Althouse: "I particularly like the line where you said Trumpism is seeking 'to amputate the higher elements of the human spirit

October 23, 2025

"I particularly like the line where you said Trumpism is seeking 'to amputate the higher elements of the human spirit — learning, compassion, science...'"

"'... and the pursuit of justice, and supplant those virtues with greed, retribution, ego and appetite.' There’s some very good stuff here. But I’ll tell you where I take issue with you. You talked about a miasma of passivity that seems to have swept over the anti-Trump ranks. I don’t think that’s true at all. I think that you’ve seen this ['No Kings'] movement grow. I think that what is making things difficult is, in our history, I think it’s fair to say that we have never confronted a government that was willing to break the law as freely — not just break norms, which they haven’t cared about for a long time, but break the law as freely."

Said E.J. Dionne to David Brooks in "Trump Has a Religion. What Do Democrats Have? Mamdani might be working in Democrats’ favor. But what about 'No Kings'?" (NYT)(video of the whole conversation here, on YouTube) .

69 comments:

The Cracker Emcee Refulgent said...: Now do the Tea Party.; 10/23/25, 12:16 PM
GRW3 said...: Delusion and projection at the same time, quite a combination.; 10/23/25, 12:22 PM
Leland said...: What laws has the administration broken? Don't point to lower court rulings that were overturned on appeal, because the lower court judges made a claim that didn't hold up.; 10/23/25, 12:27 PM
DINKY DAU 45 said...: Preaching to the wrong crowd up in here E.J. SORRY this is MAGA FIDE area. Totally in the tank for Beaucoup dinky dau 45.; 10/23/25, 12:28 PM
Kakistocracy said...: Trump Pardons Convicted Binance Founder ~ WSJ
“Pardon follows months of efforts by Changpeng Zhao to boost the Trump crypto company”

Boy that crypto is some investment of the future!!! You can use it to anonymously contribute to a sitting president’s slush fund — I mean token — and as a result get a pardon for your crimes! Wave of the future folks… I wonder if he’ll have a plaque in the new White House ballroom.

Trump does this partly because he can, partly because he doesn't care about the victims and partly to rub it in the faces of those that oppose him.

But most of all it is to demonstrate to those that pledge loyalty to him, he will pardon them no matter what they do - Trump is now above the law and by extension, those that are loyal to Trump are above the law.; 10/23/25, 12:29 PM
Aggie said...: The Progressive Democrats, on the other hand, are not breaking any norms - which says a lot about what their norms are, and how much they care about them - and nothing about how they got that way.; 10/23/25, 12:29 PM
Rusty said...: E.J. Dionne has long been a WaPo stalwart. He has been exceeding critical of any policy to the right of Stalin or Mao. Which makes him an object of ridicule and also why the WaPo is our nations "High School News Paper of Record".; 10/23/25, 12:30 PM
tim maguire said...: I am unceasingly amazed by the ability of partisans to deeply and fully believe whatever they made up just now to advance the narrative they are emotionally invested in while simultaneously believing that the people who see how absurd they are are delusional.; 10/23/25, 12:30 PM
Ron Winkleheimer said...: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTpgqqLyAs8; 10/23/25, 12:31 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: Tough to pack so many lies in one paragraph, but Dionne accomplished it. Well done. Basically take how the Democrats acted under Biden and then claim Trump is doing that.

The other propaganda technique is to create a label for your enemy, in this case its "Trumpism". Is there a "Bidenism"? Or "obamaism" of course not. They're not the MSM enemy.

As for Brooks, how can we take him seriously. He's so hysterical and over-the-top in his attacks on Trump and the Rightwing, its impossible to care. And again, this is the liar who pretended for your years to be a "true conservative". And advised his "Fellow rightwingers" to support people like bush, mccain, romney, etc. because "Gosh darn it, the only thing that mattered was beating those damn Democrats. We can't have purity tests".

And now he's dropped the mask, and shown he's just another Leftwing Democrat.; 10/23/25, 12:31 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: miasma of passivity - that's an interesting phrase. I had to lookup miasma. Moma Mia, miasma. I guess Dionne is a real Leftwing activist to be so upset at "Passivity toward Trumpism".; 10/23/25, 12:33 PM
Clyde said...: The No Kings movement represents a tiny fragment of the American population. It also skews old. You don’t want to base a political movement on retirees, because they are the past, not the future.; 10/23/25, 12:34 PM
mccullough said...: Biden opened the borders to the third world. These preening Boomers only give a shit about their cushy lives.; 10/23/25, 12:35 PM
Yancey Ward said...: LOL! Who exactly is the audience for watching E.J. Dionne and David Brooks sucking each other off?; 10/23/25, 12:39 PM
Ann Althouse said...: "LOL! Who exactly is the audience for watching E.J. Dionne and David Brooks sucking each other off?"

I thought it was amusing.; 10/23/25, 12:41 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: I looked at the video. thank god for close captions and 1.5 speed. its amazing to hear Brooks talk about Gerrymandering and "crooked politics", because I never heard him say that before. All that D Gerrymandering upset him. And I love how he, and all NYTs writers, talk about High Rents in NYC without mentioning the "i word" - immigration. 38 percent of New Yorkers are immigrants - 25 percent don't speak English. Rent is supply and demand, and if you import 3 million people from Overseas into NYC, rent is going up.; 10/23/25, 12:42 PM
RCOCEAN II said...: Its amusing to see how full of propaganda they are, and how they are completely out of touch with 80 percent of the USA.; 10/23/25, 12:43 PM
Lazarus said...: E.J. Dionne is very much yesterday's man, and he's been yesterday's man for a long time. He sounds a lot like he did in the Eighties when he was scanning the horizon trying to catch sight of some hope for the liberals.

"Learning, compassion, and science" have become politicized and the basis for a lot of fraud and hucksterism. We're seeing what a Depression-era pundit called "the deflation of American ideals." People see though appeals to "the soul of America" as propaganda for continuing the grift. The country needs to work through the current disillusionment and weed out the deceptions and fraudulence.; 10/23/25, 12:43 PM
William said...: My God, the way he carries on, you'd think Trump was taking a wrecking ball to the White House.......Trump won't just disregard the higher elements of human nature or cause them to wither from neglect, he's going to "amputate" them. Kind smiles will no longer be protected by the First Amendment. Puppies will be kicked, and there will be tariffs on ice cream.; 10/23/25, 12:45 PM
TosaGuy said...: So much breathless pearl clutching. When Donald Trump actually does something illegal no one will care because of the 79,847 times the media and people like Dionne cried wolf.

Mitigating my last sentence is no one who is not a boomer lib reads the likes of Dionne anymore.; 10/23/25, 12:46 PM
Breezy said...: Good grief, these guys are both so out of touch! Too bad the NYT doesn’t gas about their journalistic credibility. A pox on all of them!; 10/23/25, 12:49 PM
TosaGuy said...: President Trump for the first event in the president’s ballroom should host an event where he recognizes and honors 999 of the best ICE agents.

The next day it should hold a job fair for laid off journalists.; 10/23/25, 12:50 PM
TosaGuy said...: And ICE should have a booth at that job fair.; 10/23/25, 12:51 PM
Known Unknown said...: Is snootyness a winning proposition?; 10/23/25, 12:56 PM
NorthOfTheOneOhOne said...: Known Unknown said...

Is snootyness a winning proposition?

According to some of Brooks' past statements it's a desirable quality.; 10/23/25, 1:08 PM
PM said...: Frustration in search of a concept.
Here's a thought D's: Run Kamala again!; 10/23/25, 1:11 PM
RideSpaceMountain said...: Such a puny king...
Not one concentration camp!
THE WORST HITLER EVER!

- Trump, Haiku King; 10/23/25, 1:16 PM
Aggie said...: There was a hysterical back-and-forth on NPR this morning, regarding the new policies at the Pentagon. NPR was characterizing the replacement Press Corps there, now. I have a feeling that the alienation of the Progressive Leftist media is taking a little while to sink in, right now their cruising on a high of virtue and principle, having rejected the notion that they can't report on matters covered by Security Clearances without express permission. 'Prior Restraint' they cry, with passion. And did I mention, virtue? Reporting leaked information while preserving the safe anonymity of those within (law violators) has become so commonplace, that it is no longer recognized as wrong.

I'm skeptical that Hegseth's new policy will persevere, and get more of a sense that it's a temporary measure being used as a 'reset' mechanism. We shall see. As far as I'm concerned, it couldn't really have gotten much worse, the way things were. At the very least, the leaking has been stopped and the messaging we receive from the Dept. of War will at last be actually from them, not re-purposed to suit the objectives of newscasters and leakers.; 10/23/25, 1:23 PM
Iman said...: no kings and no queens
tough luck for the male lefties
low testosterone; 10/23/25, 1:23 PM
Iman said...: his flights of fancy
drop teh crackpipe dinky dau!!!
his life up in smoke; 10/23/25, 1:29 PM
Immanuel Rant said...: The best part of this is that they can record this episode and just replay it every so often, because they would just say the same thing.

In fact, has anyone checked to see that this is not an earlier program they slapped together for now?; 10/23/25, 1:30 PM
Wince said...: "I particularly like the line where you said Trumpism is seeking 'to amputate the higher elements of the human spirit — learning, compassion, science...'"

Notice how he calls it a “line.” Maybe they really do view themselves as creative writers spinning a yarn.; 10/23/25, 1:36 PM
tommyesq said...: Any remote chance that Dionne specified a particular law that Trump and his administration are alleged to have broken, or that Brooks even deigned to ask?; 10/23/25, 1:37 PM
Marty said...: Wow. Didn't know the execrable Mr. Dionne was still around. But, to paraphrase Princess Leia, his stench is uniquely recognizable.; 10/23/25, 1:55 PM
Kevin said...: seeking 'to amputate the higher elements of the human spirit — learning, compassion, science...'"

You can always get a Democrat to agree with you if you say their party is made up of the smart, empathetic people who value science -- unlike those chaw-sptting yokels in the other party.

They honestly think they're trapped in a modern day version of The Beverly Hillbillies.; 10/23/25, 2:10 PM
Jaq said...: "Science" is when they only allow demonstrations during a pandemic when the politics of the demonstrators are correct.

"Science" is when they freeze the samples taken to approve a COVID vaccine, and only unfreeze them the Wednesday immediately following the election and approve it within five days.

"Science" is when we redefine terms used in a law to get around a legal prohibition on gain of function research, then when the virus escapes from the lab where this research is being done, we make up a story involving astronomically unlikely species jump within miles of the lab, and then pardon the man behind the redefinition because reasons.; 10/23/25, 2:19 PM
Jaq said...: "modern day version of The Beverly Hillbillies."

I would take Jed Clampet over any of these jokers the Democrats are offering up.; 10/23/25, 2:21 PM
Howard said...: These ossified kooks thing a protest movement is the ticket:
The answer, my friend, is blowin' out my ass
The answer is blowin' out the ass; 10/23/25, 2:22 PM
Howard said...: To be fair, Jed was pretty wise. Jethro was the smartest one beings he gradgeeated the sixth grade; 10/23/25, 2:24 PM
Quayle said...: "I particularly like the line where you said Trumpism is seeking 'to amputate the higher elements of the human spirit — learning, compassion, science and the pursuit of justice, and supplant those virtues with greed, retribution, ego and appetite.'

It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.; 10/23/25, 2:27 PM
FullMoon said...: Regarding breaking laws. Every time Trump "breaks a law", that complaint goes to the next level court to clarify. The clarification and rulings, whether for or against is one of the many advantages of the Trump administration.; 10/23/25, 2:46 PM
Dude1394 said...: Man I get tired of the gaslighting “breaking” the law trope. Trump IS the most law abiding potus in my lifetime, period. NO one has been more lawfared, lied about, attacked by the doj, irs,fbi,cia as he has,no one. And he keeps following what the courts say, every time. Those lying anti-American democrats and media should be forced to name 5 ( good luck with one ) instance where Trump has not obeyed a court order. One.; 10/23/25, 2:58 PM
Quaestor said...: Assassination is the norm according to E.J.; 10/23/25, 3:14 PM
narciso said...: Simon says again; 10/23/25, 3:25 PM
Scott Gustafson said...: "I think it’s fair to say that we have never confronted a government that was willing to break the law as freely..." he said without evidence.; 10/23/25, 3:29 PM
Bob Boyd said...: Three prudes pretending
They're not all drubbing their dings
Under the table; 10/23/25, 3:33 PM
Kai Akker said...: Conversationalists [sic] no one ever wanted to hear:

(NYT)(video of the whole conversation EJDionne and David Brooks)

If the words fall in the forest, and there is no one listening, was there a conversation?

Truly a pairing for the time capsule.; 10/23/25, 3:33 PM
Achilles said...: The Democrat Party has lost the critical mass of social authority required to hold together a social consensus that has no there there.; 10/23/25, 3:34 PM
Shouting Thomas said...: “They honestly think they're trapped in a modern day version of The Beverly Hillbillies.”

The Clampetts were the heroes of that series. Their down to earth common sense, as opposed to the snooty stupidity of Hollywood big shots, was the moral arc of the show.; 10/23/25, 3:41 PM
Lloyd W. Robertson said...: Higher elements of the human spirit. I think Trump still owns an excellent copy of Renoir, Two Sisters (On the Terrace). Of course he has been known to lie and say it is an original, worth millions, but is it not possible this speaks of taste in addition to bragging about a great deal, taking some sucker?Arwa Mahdawi wrote in the Guardian that Trump's liking for the picture is one piece of evidence that Renoir sucked as a painter. My how they do go on. There may be another great fake Renoir somewhere in Trumpworld, La Loge.
In a journal called Phaidon there was an article that said, among other things, "the good news is the [Trump] White House's décor is likely to be an improvement on Teddy Roosevelt’s penchant for moose heads." Surely Teddy had plenty of contact with the higher things, at least when he was in school? The same article says G.H.W. Bush, the "Sunday painter," had a serious interest in art. This Bush was asked why the book War and Peace came to his mind readily, and he said "had to read it in school; it was a nightmare."
Music? For Trump we know, boomer pop and rock. That cover band at the RNC in July 2024 was excellent--better than playing "YMCA" a million times. Anything praised by the boomers is over-praised, but I like it. Science? Trump loves science, he has great faith in medical research (he pushed Operation Warp Speed--the future, Will Robinson!). He seems to love Bobby K's idea that the experts are often wrong, and we need different experts. Me too.

Boomers used to point out that JFK had Robert Frost recite a poem: Ahhhht baby. Did Jack use poetry in his many assignations? Roses are red, violets are blue, time is tight baby, and so are you? Obama of course had some black woke weirdo. How many politicians could pass a test on the higher things? Could Brooks? What the hell is he babbling about? Justice? Does trying to achieve peace in the Middle East count as something in the neighborhood of the higher things?; 10/23/25, 3:46 PM
Prof. M. Drout said...: Dionne: Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!
Brooks: Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! No Trouser Crease! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!
[Morgan Freeman Voiceover]: But there was no wolf. Again.; 10/23/25, 3:47 PM
Rabel said...: Brooks: "Because my wife likes people, we entertain a lot. I’ve actually found not as many people have people over anymore. We’ll have three or four dinner parties a week sometimes, and I’m exhausted by it. I do a lot of dishes. But I found hospitality is maybe my hobby."

This guy!; 10/23/25, 3:57 PM
AlbertAnonymous said...: EJ Dionne and David Brooks together? Hard pass.; 10/23/25, 4:04 PM
Beasts of England said...: The only support for their claims of authoritarianism are the indictments of Comey, James, and Brennan, while claiming two of those had no basis. The grand juries in question could not be reached for comment. Worst authoritarian ever…; 10/23/25, 4:05 PM
RideSpaceMountain said...: Shouting Thomas said, "Their down to earth common sense..."

It is precisely because common sense isn't so common (Voltaire) that 'earthiness' is despised. It can't be purchased, and if not innate or inherited only obtained through great suffering. Rarely it can be passed-off by pedigree through slight-of-hand, therefore it must be mocked by the roadside charlatan...aka "Hollywood Bigshots".; 10/23/25, 4:14 PM
Jupiter said...: I would not have thought David Brooks could make himself more contemptible. But consorting publicly with E. J. Dionne is a new low even for him.; 10/23/25, 4:24 PM
bgates said...: I particularly like the line where you said Trumpism is seeking 'to amputate the higher elements of the human spirit...and supplant those virtues with greed, retribution, ego and appetite.

What I particularly like about David Brooks is the title of the book he was writing, when he divorced his wife in favor of the woman who (a) he was having an affair with and (b) was his research assistant for the book, was "The Road to Character". He went on to write columns in the NYT about how people who've been dumped need to learn to suck it up (https://www.chumplady.com/david-brooks-can-bite-me/ has excerpts).; 10/23/25, 4:41 PM
Amadeus 48 said...: Great. A two man circle jerk with EJ finishing first and third. These two don't accept the fundamental justice implicit in tit for tat behavior. The problem always is how do you stop? I hope the Democrats are enjoying the experience of learning how to be good losers. They ruled the roost for a lot of the 20th Century.; 10/23/25, 4:51 PM
Aggie said...: ...."Jethro was the smartest one beings he gradgeeated the sixth grade ..."

I knew he made it through the Fifth grade, but I didn't know he took his cipherin' into post-grad work.; 10/23/25, 4:53 PM
traditionalguy said...: If FDR got 4 terms, Trump will figure out how to get 3.; 10/23/25, 5:15 PM
Ambrose said...: “Good stuff here…”. I would like to here Dionne do that with a bad a Johnny Carson imitation.; 10/23/25, 5:24 PM
Dagwood said...: Are those two old queens still around?; 10/23/25, 5:35 PM
john mosby said...: The Trump third term plan is simple but difficult. Have Republicans win P, VP, and the House. Then have the Republican House elect Trump as Speaker. Then have the P and VP resign. Easy to say, tough to do.

If all the R’s involved stated this goal out loud throughout the campaign, it might make their task easier. Huge turnout of people who just want to make the rules work for them for a change. Sort of like political GameStop. A meme election.

Debates would be fun: Spartacus screaming his bald head off at Vance, who calmly replies, “yes, that’s exactly what we’re going to do.”

But I don’t think Trump really wants a third term. Man’s gotta know his limitations. CC, JSM; 10/23/25, 5:41 PM
Big Mike said...: Compassion? Like the compassion Democrats have displayed for the working class when they screwed them over?; 10/23/25, 5:52 PM
boatbuilder said...: E.J. Dionne is still alive? Who knew?; 10/23/25, 6:08 PM
Jim said...: They call it the opinions podcast, as if there is more than one opinion. I call BS.; 10/23/25, 6:41 PM
Skeptical Voter said...: Two bozos babbling to each other--a waste of good air.; 10/24/25, 12:29 AM
Stephen said...: The Althouse echo chamber: not one person who ridicules Brooks and Dionne bothers to take on the claim of repeated illegality that is the core of Dionne's argument. It's all ad hominem argument.

So here's a few examples:

a. 4 courts found that Trump blatantly violated the First Amendment by punishing law firms for protected speech. Two orders have not been appealed, and the other two will certainly be affirmed.

b. 1 court found that Trump blatantly violated the First Amendment by suspending Harvard's research funding for acts of protected speech. Though there are jurisdictional issues in the case, the underlying facts and law are basically undisputed.

c. 1 court found that Trump violated the law by suspending Harvard's right to enroll foreign students.

d. 4 courts have held that Trump's birthright citizenship order is unconstitutional.

e. 1 court has held that Trump's tariff programs are illegal. This is still on appeal.

f. Trump blatantly failed to follow the Tik Tok statute, after the Supreme Court upheld it, providing no legal justification for doing so.

g. The consensus among lawyers and law profs is that Trump's murderous attacks on alleged drug shippers in international waters off Latin America are illegal. The Trump administration has refused to produce any legal argument supporting them. Free link: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/24/us/politics/white-house-boats-law.html?unlocked_article_code=1.v08.59hO.G9pD4ev8sCgC&smid=url-share

h. Though the matter is still in litigation, there are grave questions about whether Trump is simply making up the facts to justify his deployment of Federal forces in blue cities and states over the objections of state and local government. For example, he described Portland as a "war zone," a claim that his own judicial appointee described as "untethered to reality."

i. This leaves out the whole question of whether Trump's machinations with the pardon power and other federal benefits, and the massive enrichment of his families crypto enterprises ($2.5 billion since the election!) isn't the largest instance of illegal corruption ever to be conducted in plain view.

For Althouse, whose top ranking values for years have been the rule of law, the first amendment, and federalism, and who posted obsessively about Hunter Biden, to say that Dionne's argument about illegality is "amusing" suggests she has really gone off the rails to the right.; 10/24/25, 1:36 PM
Stephen said...: Plus, I left out the prosecutions of Comey and James, both of them indicted over the objections of multiple experienced career prosecutors (several of whom were then summarily fired) and senior officials of the Justice Department, on the direct, public, and personal order of the President himself, by a personal lackey of the President who was illegally appointed as prosecutor and has literally no experience qualifying her for the job.

Oh, and how about the hundreds of civil servants, many of them with records of high distinction, who were discharged for no other reason than that they did their jobs. It is true that there have been few determinations of illegality yet, really, does everyone think that the federal civil service is unconstitutional?

Sound legal to you?; 10/24/25, 1:53 PM