Zelensky came to Washington seeking long-range U.S. missiles that could strike Moscow and beyond. Trump sounded receptive to the proposal earlier this week after a series of calls with the Ukrainian leader. His tone changed after speaking with Putin on Thursday....
“I would much rather have them not need Tomahawks. I would much rather have the war be over,” Trump said before a private lunch....
October 18, 2025
"Enough blood has been shed, with property lines being defined by War and Guts. They should stop where they are."
Said President Trump, quoted in "Trump urges armistice at current battle lines in Ukraine after Zelensky meeting/The president said he wants both sides to stop where they are. Zelensky signaled openness to such a ceasefire as a starting point to talks" (WaPo)(free-access link).
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56 comments:
Is the use of "Tomahawk" racist, or just a malignant cultural appropriation?
The Art of the Deal.
Stop sending Tomahawks and weapons and the war will be over, duh. Would have been best if the US had stayed out. Let them fight it out w/their own weapons. We just prolong the inevitable, trying to bleed out "the other side" by running guns to the world. Not a good look for America, but our untalented financiers have to sell things to feed their families too. Too bad it's AMerica they are currently selling out...
They don't want peace.
They want to hate Trump.
This regional skirmish would have all been over in a month back in March 2022 if the US had sat this one out as we did when Obama refused to intervene in The Ukraine back in the day... No more weapons, no more wars. It take time to build back the stockpiles. Why is the US primarily exporting Death to the world these days? We're better than this. Get rid of the old people trying to kill their way to eternal life and earthly power? We are artificially prolonging their reigns too.
Trump needs those Tomahawks for Taiwan.
Watch "A House of Dynamite" when it starts showing on Netflix next Friday. Then consider that the Russians can't tell an incoming Tomahawk from a nuclear missile. You will understand why we shouldn't give Tomahawks to the Ukrainians.
"Look, Tom, a hawk!" Punch line from Boy's Life magazine, circa 1970.
Trump never disappoints, especially after Putin calls with instructions.
If Trump’s not worked out by now that Putin doesn’t want to negotiate then there is no hope he’ll ever understand.
Trump would rather have hatchets buried, than Tomahawks given.
It would be insane for us to give Ukraine missiles that can reach Moscow. If they get them, fine. But let them get them somewhere else.
Kak, your Trump-hate makes you stupid. Consider the possibility that Trump will have a freer hand to do what he wants if he first gives Putin chances that he rebuffs.
Trump is speaking softly and carrying a big Tomahawk.
Putin doesn’t care how much blood and guts it costs.
Per the Wapo: "As recently as August he was demanding Ukrainian territory that extends far beyond his current control, and some Russia experts say he is still seeking a broader subjugation of the country."
Fuckin' A - you can never get the MSM to say something straight as opposed to putting some Propaganda spin on it. "Far beyond his current control". LOL. Currently, Russia has incorporated Ukrainian 4 Oblasts. Two, Luhansk and Donetsk, are almost 90 percent under Russian occupation. Zaporizhia is 60 percent occupied. Kherson, except for the part over the Dnieper river, is all under Russian control. The part on the west side of the river, was voluntarily given up by Russia to allow an offensive elsewhere.
So, none of it is "far beyond his current control". It should be noted that the Russian has large amounts of territory near Kharlov and could take big hunks of Ukraine next to Belorussia anytime they wish. When the Russians broke through near Kharlov, Putin said he had no desire to take the city. The offensive was simply to push the UFA back from the Russian Border.
I assume if there's any "trading of territory" the Russians will withdraw from Ukrainian territory near Kharlov, and give up their claim to Kherson on the West side of the river, and in return get the rest of the other 3 oblasts.
It should be noted the russians are almost through the fortified urban defensive line in Luhansk and Donetsk and once they do its just open farm land all the way west to the Dnieper river.
BTW, if you've wondered why Miss Lindsey isn't on TV yapping constantly about foreign affairs and acting like he's secretary of state, its because he has to win the Republican primary next year. So he's doing his usual trick of laying low before an election and pretending his a conservative.
@Althouse, if you’re legitimately trying to understand what Trump is doing to negotiate and end to the war, I don't recommend the Washington Post as a place to get any genuine insights.
“I would much rather have them not need Tomahawks. I would much rather have the war be over,”
When is 'the gentle nudge' train leaving the station?
Trump needs to escalate from F bombs to G bombs.
Just so you know Russia's point of view, and how they are playing the cards they hold, they believe, and Macron has already said this, that if there is the "unconditional cease fire" that Zelensky is calling for, the moment it happens, Europe is going to pour troops into Ukraine, especially Odessa, which is in play, and after a few years of building up Ukraine's army again, another "incident" will happen, and Russia will be blamed, and the war starts again.
Germany is talking about a draft. Oh goody.
But it's much better not to think about what the other side is likely to do or what they might think about your "peace" offers, because "ours is not to reason why."
"Putin doesn’t care how much blood and guts it costs."
Nor does Zelensky, nor did Joe Biden. The last European leader who refused to accept the verdict from the battlefields, the suffering of his own people, and refused to make peace even as his armies collapsed, who was he and how did it turn out?
Somebody explain, is Putin bogged down and crawling slowly, kept to a snail's pace by Ukraines bedraggled army? Or is he a threat to sail across Europe to the channel the minute he defeats the army of Ukrainians. Or is Russia in demographic collapse and their army is reduced to fighting with shovels, and their economy is collapsed, and they can easily be defeated by missile attacks on their ports and refineries and so we should use US personnel and provide Ukraine with Tomahawk missiles that we "promise, cross our hearts and hope to die" don't carry nukes because "that would be stupid."
I guess whichever story you choose to believe is the one that is true!
Kak is right, though. Putin has no interest in any terms that the West is offering, and I think that at some level, Trump understands that, but the Europeans and the neocons will be working on Trump non stop, browbeating him to provide the missiles.
The problem is that Trump has now personally threatened Russia and since it takes years of training to operate the Tomahawks, it's been reported that we will use our own personnel to operate them, in attacks on Russia, well, that means if he does it now, he will have declared war on Russia, and there will be no denying it.
Remember when the Japanese ambassador declared war minutes before Pearl Harbor? That was "perfidy."
The tomahawk is a weapon fron the 90s, see under siege
Ethnic Springs
I like to think meeting by Hegseth was to pick out the Generals-Kong to ride those Tomahawks down from Ukraine !!
Speaking of movies, remember Clancy's "The Sum of All Fears" where the Ukrainians tried to drag the US and Russia into a nuclear war, and the war was averted by the US and Russian presidents joining forces against hard liners on both sides? That was some weird speculative fiction, wasn't it?
Ukraine already has drones that can reach Moscow and beyond. As demonstrated by the fact they've already done so.
They've also managed to load a railcar full of drones and infiltrate it on to Russian rails and launch them from inside Russia. The story of how they did that would likely make a riveting movie. How good is Russian security if an enemy can do that?
Same guy sending 10,000 troops to Venezuela? Murdered a minimum 27 people, and no one has any proof(CONGRESS for example) of validity of any of this ,We know he shuns due process and legalprocesses so 10 wars he solved and a new one coming up! Kill em all ask questions later.
"How good is Russian security if an enemy can do that?"
The START treaty required Russia to park those bombers in the open, where they could be tracked by Western satellites, which made them vulnerable to Ukrainian attacks, but did Ukraine worry about the ramifications of attacking Russia's nuclear triad by exploiting Russia's treaty compliance? Nope!
But thanks for your argument that Ukraine doesn't need our help. And kudos for not using the word "cakewalk."
Ending the war on the current lines of control would be a fantastic outcome. The only alternative is much more death and destruction. Ukraine is not going to reestablish its old borders. That ship has sailed. Russia has shown itself to be no threat to western Europe, but it won't be easily dislodged from where it is now.
"Jaq said...
Speaking of movies, remember Clancy's "The Sum of All Fears" where the Ukrainians tried to drag the US and Russia into a nuclear war, and the war was averted by the US and Russian presidents joining forces against hard liners on both sides? That was some weird speculative fiction, wasn't it?"
In the book it's the muzzies and Jack Ryan averts the war.
muslims, red army faction as well as American indian militants,
"Ending the war on the current lines of control would be a fantastic outcome."
For the neocons. Imagine if we could get Putin to sign a deal where he kept Ukraine completely intact, and signed a 25 year lease for use of Crimea... Oh wait, he did that, Zelensky rejected it because it required Ukraine to respect local language rights and to keep the promise of neutrality that Ukraine made when it was created by Russia splitting it off.
Every man, woman and child who has died since the West rejected that offer, a month after the war began, died solely for the expansion of NATO.
I had a blinding flash from this Truth, with the capitalized Blood and Guts:
Is some of Trump's weird orthography because of his German heritage?
His paternal grandparents immigrated from Germany. His grandfather passed before Donald was born, but his grandmother lived into the 1960s (and was apparently the founder of the real estate business - no one mentions that he grew up under such a strong businesswoman Because Trump! But anyway...).
His signature really reminds me of pointy German handwriting. I kind of assumed he picked that up from his Kraut ancestors.
But it only dawned on me today that maybe he capitalizes common nouns for the same reason: growing up in a business run by a native German and a first-generation German-American, who probably wrote that way.
Of course that doesn't explain why he goes all-caps.
Both habits also remind me of old-timey newspapers and broadsides, e.g.: "A REWARD of Twenty Dollars in Gold, for the Capture of the Notorious Outlaw BILLY THE KID, Dead or Alive!" There was a lot of stuff like that on the TV westerns young Donnie watched; then in the 70s there was a lot because of the bicentennial and because of old newspapers falling into the public domain - it was a whole genre of wallpaper and other decor at the stores my parents dragged me to, which same stores young-adult Don would have been buying supplies at for his buildings.
Sorry for the tangent, but understanding a man's style can help understand his substance. CC, JSM
possibly but does anyone recall the whole Perdicaris affair, when the named figure, an American diplomatwas kidnapped by the Raisuli, the Berber warlord, the subject of the film with Sean Connery and Brian Keith, the wind and the lion, if memory serves 'Raisuli dead or Perdicaris alive' from Teddy Roosevelts lips,
Curator of the museum ship battleship New Jersey finds the keys to launch the tomahawks years after the ship was decommissioned. A great curator, informative YouTube channel and great museum ship.
https://youtu.be/CbQbNcauaSI?si=qHC1VqvrLmlGcpzO
How much corruption money would the Ukrainians or Russians give for those keys?
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2025/10/18/dem-rep-moulton-turns-on-aipac-keeps-ties-iran-regime-linked-lobby-niac/
As a kid who grew up watching Western Jamboree on Saturday mornings while I ate my cheerios, I like your German dad explanation better.
"Somebody explain, is Putin bogged down and crawling slowly, kept to a snail's pace by Ukraines bedraggled army? "
Its the hurricane of hot air coming from the EU and the UK. Its causing quite a headwind.
tomahawks are an older technology, but they can be nuclear capable, khinshals are hypersonic and nuclear capable, game set match
I hope Putin sticks by his previous statements and demands Ukraine - in addition to the territorial changes - agree to stay out of NATO and to limit its armarments.
The last thing the world needs is another "frozen conflict" with a rearmed and refinanced Ukraine starting another war to regain its so-called "lost territories".
The Insane stupidity of the Ukrainians in this conflict staggers the imagination. The Russians and Ukrainians are slav brothers who fought together during WW II. Almost 1/4 of all Ukrainians speak Russians as their first language. Most speak Russian. Yet they've killing each other for years over a boundry line. Millions have fled the country, and Zelensky is a dictator. Looking back, it was a big mistake for Russia to have given the Ukrainians their independence. They would've been better off as part of Russia.
Your dislike of the Ukrainian cause is paralled by your hatred of ANY desire for independence by any people anywhere. Ukraines cause is exactly the same as that of Poland or the United States for that matter. The Russian desire for domination is illegitimate.
Russian bombers were in the open because they were deployed on airfields handy for the purpose of bombarding Ukraine. Some were visibly loaded with cruise missiles (Kh101 class) for exactly this purpose. It is absurd to extend special protection to nuclear strategic systems if they are being used for non-strategic purposes. Any such claim by the Russians is an assertion that they be allowed to cheat.
There is a class of American subhumans that seem devoted to anyone attempting to be a slavemaster. I cannot understand these creatures. Perhaps it is not healthy to make the attempt.
$1.5T -- probably has no meaning other than "a lot". But break it down on a per person basis... 1.5T = 1500 billion dollars. There are about 330 million US citizens, or about 1/3 of a billion citizens. How much will each citizen be responsible for? For 1 billion dollars, it would be about $3 per American citizen. For 1.5T or 1500 billion, it would work out to be about $4500 per citizen. Would the headline be more understandable to the average reader to say "$1.5T" or to say "$4500 per person / $18,000 for a family of four"?
"It is absurd to extend special protection to nuclear strategic systems"
Like I said, they don't care about nuclear risks to the US, which is why the US is ditching them.
Just a note- Ukraine didn't need to become independent from the USSR (Russia) as the Russian Empire broke up. Ukraine SSR was an "independent" voting member of the United Nations. As was Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic (Belarus).
Or was their independence completely fictitious? You be the judge.
Seems in both international and national affairs- everywhere- leftists insist on special privileges. And get them. To appease their feelings.
I thought that you liked freedom fighters. The militias in eastern Ukraine have been fighting for their freedom for a decade before the war started in earnest. Crimea voted to join Russia, unless you believe that after the way ethnic Russians were treated in Odessa, and after Kiev had outlawed their language for official use, and outlawed the teaching of Russian literature in their schools, the literature of their parents and grandparents going back longer than the US has been a country, and outlawed their church, that the overwhelmingly Russian Crimea and Donbas would have voted to remain.
Talk about absurd.
Not to mention that The Republic of Crimea was created based on a plebiscite, which the Ukrainians simply ignored, and annexed them in 1995 in exactly the same way the Russians did in 2014, but they seem to be happier under the Russians.
"Or was their independence completely fictitious?"
That's what we were saying in the Cold War. That it was just a ruse to get more votes in the body. Was it fictitious that Ukraine agreed to be neutral, to be non nuclear, and to respect the language rights of its minorities in its own constitution? That that was the deal by which they were granted independence?
buwaya said...
"There is a class of American subhumans that seem devoted to anyone attempting to be a slavemaster. I cannot understand these creatures. Perhaps it is not healthy to make the attempt."
There is a communicative principal of stupidity which concludes; "If you hang around with stupid people long enough you yourself will become dumber." It's why you shouldn't read the usual suspects very often .
"Or was their independence completely fictitious? "
Yes it was. It was an arrangement to give the USSR more UN votes in order to get the USSR into the UN.
The ONLY determining factor for national existence in the modern world is popular will. If you do away with that you have chaos. To advocate for chaos in service to a depraved personal ambition is depraved. Only depraved persons can back the Russian cause.
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