Said Jeniffer Castro, who has filed a lawsuit, quoted in "Flyer who went viral after refusing to give seat to crying child sues airline, passenger who filmed her" (NY Post).
It's important to remember that you do not need to articulate your reasons or even understand that you have any reasons. You can say "no" and nothing more.
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56 comments:
This seems like a stunt. All of it.
But I agree with the Just Say No approach in general
Good to see this.
without knowing what was said (foreign language ) - my opinion is based on what I would feel and do - and I agree with the woman who said no.
Commercial air travel - I always pay extra to have a seat near the front, and an aisle seat. Always.
I once flew to LA, and a mother and her daughter had to be seated separately - because of some flight fix-up. The mother
asked me to give up my Aisle seat - in exchange for a center seat one row back - so they could sit together. I said NO.
(I paid for that specific seat!)
The women looked at me in pure horror.
(I thought to myself -- Please, lady - your daughter will live without you, as you sit one aisle apart for 2 hours) ugh.
She's drawing a lot of attention to herself, and profiting from that attention.
She had every right to say no. And though you can be a jerk for doing many things that are within your "rights," that does not seem to be the case here. However, her attempt to convert this unpleasantness into lucrative victimhood is despicable. Alas, more and more people seem to be looking for such opportunities.
She’s suing for unauthorized filming, in a public space? Just say no to frivolous lawsuits.
Although it was fine that she said no, how can she sue for damages when the incident seems to have benefited her in both status and financial terms? If she wins the suit, does that mean she owed the defendants?
You can say "no" and nothing more.
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Lol, easy to say you don't practice or you'd see there's much more a price to be paid than just that "nothing more." You're likey gonna pay a price in time for saying no, just as you do for "challenging" authority and calling them out for what they do not know or are misunderstanding about reality...
"Every dog will have its day... but then its got to pay and pay."
It's worth it. But don't act as though non-conformity doesn't have a price just because you've been too afraid all your life to pay it and refuse to go along to get along...
"I'm a MEthodist. That's my belief... no, I mean Episcopalian! Oh, me and my kids? We can be whatever you want us to be to get me in! Get me that job. Look, here's my youngest gal... don't she look pretty in that short mini skirt? She LIKES to dress that way, we've trained here to be very accommodating... go sit on the nice man's lap, honey, he has some games he wants to play with a nice little girl on his computer...
Teach them to say NO before they hit mid 70 is better advice, ann, but god bless you for trying to put up a good face at this point in time. Emulate those who can, and do.
Religious reasons works. It's in the Constitution still.
The Masterworks Cakes theory.
The article did not say where suit was filed, but the woman is Brazillian and I believe GOL is a domestic-only Brazilian airline, so likely there. Who knows what laws and rights are in play.
anyone have a transcript?
I would rather comment knowing the entire story -
I had a window seat once that a high school or college aged boy was sitting in. When I came, and looked at my ticket, he asked if we could trade so he could sit next to his buddy in the middle seat. I asked what the trade was... His seat a few rows back, can't remember but I think it was an aisle not a window, which I like too as there's more leg room on the aisle... But further back in the plane, I said naw don't really want to trade. Then...
Nevermind, take my seat I'll take yours...
Not that he would have but... I didn't really want to sit next to his disappointed buddy all flight long. What did it really matter to me or cost me. Sure, you CAN always say no, but you need not. Sometimes a good woman's YES beats a ladies absolutely legal right to say no to anything (so long as she or he is willing to pay the consequences which usually come along with the refusal to go along to get along...)
You sure do give good advice in your old age, ann. Imagine if you'd had have the strength to take your own advice how much better our higher ed and workplaces might have been if you had put an end to DEI sooner, or spoken out for gay rights while the discrimination was occuring, or spoke up for parental rights now...
You're only WIN-NING in the bank account number. You and meade are just as trapped in that BigHouse in Madison for the rest of your lives now, surrounded by the BlueStateCapitol security and the liberal love that keeps you safe and happy and lets you complain publicly here about how bad things are... lol. Enjoy your misery, you must like it there?
You think Americans are litigious, and then you meet the Brazilians and Argentines. They sue EVERYONE. It's amazing.
btw- There are certainly scenarios where I WOULD give up my seat.
Medical - the elderly - caregiver/proximity.. -etc..
..but basic inconvenience is not one of them.
If you are in a public space, you have no right to privacy.
This is a strategy used by many cheapskate travelers. I once watched a guy lay guilt on a younger traveler to give up his bulkhead seat to be near his kid. He happened to be on my connecting flight too and was sitting in my upgraded seat when I got onboard. I asked him to move, and he said his wife and child were up a row. Too bad buddy. I got a bunch of crap from the people around me to refusing to play his game. A young Marine was even going to beat me up, but his unit commander made him let me off the plane first.
If you want seats together, you can pay to have seat together.
Remember Bartleby
If she was being harassed/bullied - all for some spoiled brat who insisted on taking her seat - she might be doing us all a favor.
I just read the entire article. I agree with her lawsuit.
Also - a flight attendant should always make sure that seat assignments are managed appropriately.
One of the big problems in our society is that people are often pressured to not say, "no" and they give into that pressure way too often.
What people don't really realize is that it's actually much ruder and meaner to pressure someone not to say, "no" than is is to actually say, "no." After all, the person saying, "no" probably has a good reason to say that that you're not privvy to.
Pressuring people not to say, "no" is classic passive agressive behavior.
Lance said...
"She's drawing a lot of attention to herself, and profiting from that attention."
Actually, she's standing up for herself. That is also something that people need to do more often.
Dave Begley said...
"If you are in a public space, you have no right to privacy."
This isn't about a "right to privacy." It's about a right not to be bullied.
Lance - disagree. She wanted to be left alone. It appears - based on the link - that She has been harassed - because she didn't give into the demands of a spoiled brat child and that child's parent.
Actually, she's standing up for herself. That is also something that people need to do more often.
@loudogblog, +1
Here’s a theme for you to explore some day if you want to, Althouse. How much of young men’s misbehavior towards the women they date is due to parents who refuse to teach their kids that there are limits and “no means no”? The proximate cause of this incident is that the mother lets her child throw a tantrum in public and Ms. Castro doesn’t fall for it.
I’m sort of wrestling with this right now. Wife and I were visiting my son and his family. I was alone in the family room with my (very active) 3 year old grandson, and he started to climb up heavy bookshelves that I had reason to believe we’re not anchored to the wall. So pretty risky. With my metal knees and arthritis I couldn’t quickly get up from the low sofa so I spoke his name loudly and told him that was not a good idea.
“Don’t raise your voice to my son!”
Well okay, then. Doesn’t seem like mch of a thanks for not having my grandson trapped under a heavy wooden bookcase but you take what you can get sometimes.
Cry bullies hardest hit, and squalling the loudest.
If she is profiting from this episode, then I would say she has every right to do so - considering that she is the one that suffered unwanted / undue attention and shaming.
We’ve encountered a few parents that know how to the game the system for advantage, like the mother daughter duo who would never pay to book a premium seat on a route that was always full. They’d be assigned to the exit row where the child can’t sit, then the attendants would coax the premium seat buyers who paid to be in the first few rows. ‘they’re the same seats’ they say. The hell they are…
Call it the Bartleby Option.
Unless the airline is owned by a government, the inside of an airliner is private space, not public, the same as for any other business property.
And “no” is a complete sentence.
loudogblog: There's no tort known as "the right not to be bullied."
There is no excuse for airlines not putting people together who buy their tickets together. It’s ridiculous that some airlines charge for this, as though it’s a service you should expect to pay extra for. That’s the real scandal here. Yet no one is pointing the finger in the direction it should be pointed.
tim maguire: Another thing Secretary Pete didn't do.
I am moderately active on Quora, where people post questions and other post answers to those questions. I have read several questions/answers on the topic of people being asked to give up their seat. It's interesting how many answers are along the lines of "I usually will not switch seats *unless* the following conditions are met" and some are simply "no, there are reasons I chose and paid for *this* seat".
The professor is entirely correct. A polite "no" is sufficient.
I work in a public library and something one notices is how some people do not like to be told no about anything.
“No is a complete sentence and so often we forget that.
When we don't want to do something we can simply smile and say no.
We don't have to explain ourselves, we can just say "No".
Early on my journey I found developing the ability to say no expanded my ability to say yes and really mean it.
My early attempts at saying no were often far from graceful but with practice even my no came from a place of love.
Love yourself enough to be able to say yes or no.”
― Susan Gregg (from goodreads.com)
" There's no tort known as "the right not to be bullied.""
No, but there is "false light defamation."
Of course she had the right to say "no". And of course the other passenger had the right to criticize her for saying "no". One of the reasons that we sometimes decide NOT to say "no" is that other people will think better of us if we say "yes". Suing over this seems immensely stupid (unless the airline did something wrong that's not reported here, in which case it might be reasonable to sue the airline).
I'd say it depends on how long the flight was. If it was 2 hours or so, I'd just give up my seat. Anything longer, I'd say "No". Kids need to learn they wont get their way just because they cry. And the world doesn't revolve around them.
People have the facts wrong in this case. They assume that the woman was asked to surrender her seat so that the mother and child could sit together. That has actually never been claimed. The child was already sitting in this woman’s window seat because he wanted to look out of the window. Mom asked woman if child could stay in the window seat and woman said no. If you think about the seating arrangements in a three row configuration, that means that it was not a likely at all that the woman surrenendering her seat would be necessary for the mother and child to sit together.
There is no excuse for airlines not putting people together who buy their tickets together. It’s ridiculous that some airlines charge for this, as though it’s a service you should expect to pay extra for. That’s the real scandal here. Yet no one is pointing the finger in the direction it should be pointed.
Wrong. The airlines are trying to get as many people on the plane as they reasonably can. To make a profit. They make seats available for selection when you buy the tickets. If you are late and the plane is full, you may not be able to sit next to whomever you want, but you can get on the plane. Or you can pay more for "special" seating.
I personally would be very annoyed if I couldn't get on a plane because seats were reserved for potential situations where people who hadn't yet bought a ticket might want to sit together.
And of course the other passenger had the right to criticize her for saying "no".
On what basis?
The child was already sitting in this woman’s window seat because he wanted to look out of the window. Mom asked woman if child could stay in the window seat and woman said no.
@RigelDog, that’s my understanding too. As a grandfather and all around nice guy I’d offer to swap my window seat for the mother’s aisle seat, but under NO circumstances would I swap my window seat for the middle — in effect accepting responsibility for the child for the duration of the flight.
“I would prefer not to.” Ah Bartleby! Ah humanity!
Tim M said:
"There is no excuse for airlines not putting people together who buy their tickets together"
Huh?
When you book online - you get to choose your seats.
If I select and pay for the seat I want - that's my seat. - unless it's an emergency, involves a military vet or the elderly - perhaps even a seeing eye dog - that is my seat.
Boatbuilder - 6:02 - eggs-xackly
Entitled kid - not your seat. My seat.
Inconvenienced mommy - with a daughter old enough to sit by herself? - don't make your problems my problems. thank you.
Be glad the airlines found seats for you because of the circumstances. Flights are full these days.
I've flown in those situations - and sometimes the seat you get is the seat you get. I would never inconvenience someone else for my bad situation.
Let's save the word, "despicable" for occasions that actually merit it's use, whaddya say?
Over the years, I've found that "No, but thank you!" said in a cheerful voice is the most confusing response to use when dealing with irrational requests. It hits the requesting party right in the cognitive dissonance.
Dave Begley said...
"If you are in a public space, you have no right to privacy."
***************
But there IS a tortious "false light invasion of privacy" .
"It's different from defamation - the information doesn't have to be defamatory, just misleading about the person's character, beliefs, or actions." ---AI Calude
And the complaintant doesn't even have to prove actual damages, they need only be a "presumed" loss of reputation or the like.
Whoever took the video and then published it ought to be put on a legal hotseat.
Two points. One, typos in the article (“filed” instead of filmed, “sure” instead of share). Is this from translation from Portuguese? Regardless, poor editing.
Secondly, Once I asked a gentleman in a highly desirable seat identical to mine if he would switch so I could sit with my wife, who is a nervous flyer. He firmly said no, showing a level of frustration. As i went back to my seat, he realized that my seat was the same on the opposite side of the plane he was apologetic. I wouldn’t have asked him to switch if the seats weren’t identical given the high desirability. I’ve occasionally asked others to switch when the seats weren’t as highly desirable and again I think always like for like and there wasn’t an issue. And I’ve been asked to switch a couple of times when traveling alone and readily agreed. When traveling with my wife I do try to get seats together and am almost always able to do so given decent status on my preferred airline, but occasionally not.
Why don't the aircrews keep people from swapping? We are continually told the reason commercial flight is an airborne gulag with Frau Blucher rigorously enforcing the rules is because of safety. Yet one of the most basic safety issues is matching the manifest to who's in the seats, in case of a crash or medical emergency.
RR
JSM
Swapping like /for/ like seats - is done all the time. Not a big deal.
I cannot stand sitting in the middle of three/ three seating.
Boeing 737s etc...
I will skip booking a flight where only middle seats are available - unless a last-minute flight is necessary... ( for a funeral or something.)
I'm with the "I bought it, I'm sitting there crowd". But I'm also in the video just showed what happened crowd. There are a lot of times I'd like to say, "No". But the flash back ain't worth what I give up.
"They make seats available for selection when you buy the tickets. "
Yeah, they do allow selection when you buy. And that would settle that, or so you would think. My wife and I travel, even internationally a couple of times a year. We book our seats MONTHS in advance. On numerous occasions we get a notice from the airline our seat assignments have been changed where we are not seated together. Usually we can call (and call and call) to resolve the issue. But not always.
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