"Why would the Iranians be downplaying the amount of damage done? Well, they're probably wildly embarrassed about this. Here was the national treasure of Iran, right? The nuclear program was the symbol of its strength and its resistance to the United States. The caretakers of the nuclear program, both the mullahs and the military, and the civilian president and administration had no higher responsibility than protecting this as the ultimate defense for the Iranian state. And here they've now lost that ability, at least for a while. And there's another possible explanation... which is they could be downplaying it so that it doesn't force their hand into a massive response, one that would put them on an escalation ladder with the United States...."
Said David Sanger — on today's episode of the NYT podcast "The Daily," "The U.S. Bombed Iran. Now What?" (Podscribe) — answering the question "What has been the response from the Iranians so far?"
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168 comments:
"The U.S. Bombed Iran. Now What?"
If it isn't clear by now, that is for Israel to decide, not US.
2016, 2020, and 2024 didn't matter. The Neo-Nuts are still running this asylum.
I've been wondering about sleeper cells. They're the national security version of the Fermi paradox. If they're out there, shouldn't at least some of them have shown themselves by now?
What remains of the Iranian leadership will be skedaddling out of the country PDQ.
The mullahs are back-channeling any way they can stay in power.
They now take Trump literally & seriously.
The sleeper cells aren’t getting paid anymore. They can read the writing on the wall. No one backs the losers. The mullahs are losers.
Perhaps, at the moment, the Iranian hierarchy is prioritizing just staying alive.
Not sure Iran could do major damage here in USA.
Am certain Islamists fanatics could easily slaughter hunders, or thousands, with co-ordinated attacks on schools and shopping centers.
Could set the whole thing up via internet. Get a thousand soldiers with automatic weapons to hit a thousand shopping centers on Saturday.
"What has been the response from the Iranians so far?"
This is the Middle East. It always gets worse, just be patient. There will be a response, and it will mean more war.
Always does.
What if a thousand soldiers with automatic weapons to hit a thousand shopping centers on Saturday and no one could tell the difference? Our shopping centers are all empty. The merchants would probably appreciate the traffic.
"Sound and fury signifying nothing." Especially after their patron, China, told them to keep their dirty mines out of the Straight of Hormuz. Also, Israel followed up last night with a devastating attack on the IRCG barracks and HQ and then opened the gates of the Iranian political prison.
US and Israel can keep it coming.
Say Uncle.
Space dude, your first comment is exactly correct. So long as Iran does not attempt to harm Americans, our role in this episode is over.
But your second comment stinks. We are not at war. This is instead of war. Eliminating the Iranian nuke program is a move towards peace and away from war. Neocons = endless war. One clearly defined mission is not.
History could prove me wrong but I fully expect Trump to move on now that the issue he most cared about has been resolved. If Liz Cheney and the Vindmans are actually running the show I will write you a personal apology and declare your comment true, not stinky.
And MAGA will be dead.
On June 17th I said, "If Iran didn't have a bomb before all this (which I don't believe), and the Iranian regime survives, you can bet your bottom dollar they will now, and soon."
Now there are rumblings Iran's allies will either help them complete their work with the remaining material they have left or even give them one (I'm dubious of that...).
This isn't over. You all know it's not.
“This is the Middle East. It always gets worse, just be patient.“
Yes, but the counter may be that the Hezboalla and Hamas warriors are getting put into smaller and smaller pens, and may not be getting as much money. We will have to wait and see about the hooties vs. international shipping but I suspect that Iran does not really want to stop selling oil to China now.
Perhaps the untamed Middle East will be dominated by warlords with local power but no international impact. Who will support death to America now?
Mike (MJB Wolf) said, "We are not at war."
LOL. LMAO even.
Iranian apprehensions at the US border exploded to over 1500 under Biden. Of those, over 700 were released into the country.
Thanks Joe
Every single thing I've read over the last few days keeps speaking in terms of the assumption the Iranian regime is finished.
What if it's not? What's the next steps here? Just keep sending American warplanes in any time there's something needing doing in Iran that Israel can't manage?
Who the fuck is giving the orders around here?
This is a different United States military under Trump.
The uniparty held us back and hamstrung us on purpose to make sure we lost.
If Iran tries to shut down the straight of Hormuz then everyone will get to see what our military can actually do. There will be exactly 0 Iranian military boats on the water. Israel already eliminated air defenses.
Without Bush and Obama holding us back the taliban would have been dead in days. That is what will happen to any Iranian forces that shoot at international water traffic in the strait.
We're not even 9 months into this presidency and we've already had our first "America Second" moment. I am extremely displeased...and so are a lot of people that voted for AMERICA FIRST.
Here's how you know the Trump Administration is lying about the damage (specifically at the Qoms enrichment site ... arguably the most important site "hit". Imagine if we had a real media. The interview would go like this:
Media: "What damage was done."
Trump: "The greatest damage that has ever been done ever. By anyone. By a long shot."
Media: "How do we know that?"
Trump: "Here ... let me show you the satellite photos."
Media: "But these satellite photos don't show any damage."
Trump: "That's because all the damage is underground."
Media: "Huh?"
Trump: "Yeah, completely and totally obliterated."
Media: "But these satellite photos don't show any damage."
Trump: "Yeah, because it's underground."
Trump literally said this.
Then, he said this on Truth Social:
"The hits were hard and accurate! Iran’s nuclear program may no longer exist. Bullseye!"
And nobody in the media is questioning that reassessment. That hedging. That admission that we don't really know what's destroyed and what's not.
"And nobody in the media is questioning that reassessment. That hedging. That admission that we don't really know what's destroyed and what's not."
And putting on my CWEAT hat for a second, we won't know without "boots on the ground". Ah yes...good 'ol "boots on the ground"...
Watch and listen, you'll start to hear more of this in the coming days....
I'm supportive of the US taking out Iran's nuclear capability. That noted; I have my doubts on just how much damage was done, but I feel confident a lot was done. I do think Iran's ability to respond is limited, and I am not surprised with their effort in the past 48 hours (they have fired at least two volleys of missiles into Israel). I think any significant retaliation against the US would take a long time. The Dolittle Raid took 5 months, and the US still had a good deal of capability with only Pearl Harbor being hit.
Here is an absolute truism: the people who think they know what's going on in the minds of the Iranian leadership … don't.
All of these hypotheticals are nothing more than bloviating. No one on the planet knows how this will work out because of the cultural and political complexities in Iran. We know only the tip of the iceberg, and I'm not sure we know that with absolute certainty.
If AI is so da_n smart, it would know what will happen, but it ain't.
I agree with some of your assessment Leland, here's the ultimate issue though:
Any significant relation against the US is justifiable politically. We just joined the war.
RideSpaceMountain said...
"The U.S. Bombed Iran. Now What?"
If it isn't clear by now, that is for Israel to decide, not US.
Not really. Netanyahu asked Trump for permission to take out the mullahs. Trump agreed knowing the mullahs were going to play fuck fuck games and gave Israel a 60 day window.
In return for this permission Trump told Netanyahu that the US is going to implement the Abraham Accords with Iran included and that Syria, which Israel effectively controls, will be used by the US as leverage with Russia. Trump will also use the Iranian oil exports as leverage against China who has been getting Iranian oil at discount for years.
Netanyahu is a smaller cogs and getting what he wants. But the larger picture is being painted in an American first pattern.
This isn't over. You all know it's not.
It's never going to be "over" with Islamics. But there's a chance Iran can be wrestled away from the clerics. Should THAT fail, yes Iran's stupid leaders will try the same shit, but my hope is we strike back immediately next time.
Pro-tip: Don't wait 40 fucking years (and over 1000 dead) after someone starts murdering your people to DO something to stop it.
"The ultimate defense for the Iranian state"? Is that why they were taken out? Because they're defensive weapons?
RideSpaceMountain said...
I agree with some of your assessment Leland, here's the ultimate issue though:
Any significant relation against the US is justifiable politically. We just joined the war.
This war started in 1979. Iran has been playing FF games for decades and funding all of the proxy wars in the ME since.
Trump is ending this war. It is long overdue. One has to question why the Uniparty has done everything it could to install the Mullahs and prop them up.
The people of Iran hate the mullahs and without US support the people of Iran would have pulled them down years ago.
...I guess we're just going to have to wait and see MJB, which in my case means bad news after bad news after bad news going all the way back to 2001. Obviously for some, bad news in the Middle East goes back much, much longer.
I am prepared for more bad news from this farce. I've had a lot of practice...
IMO the future with Iran hinges on whether this was (A) "Soleimani Moment" or (B) "Gulf of Tonkin" moment or an (C) "Arch Duke Ferdinand" moment. It is very soon after but the other near-peer states are signaling this is closer to A than C or B, Medveded's comments notwithstanding.
Nobody knows--on either side of this "debate".
Any significant relation against the US is justifiable politically.
Pretty much anything, ever, is justifiable politically:
Slavery? Justified politically, until it wasn't.
Massive illegal immigration? Justified politically, until it wasn't.
Roe v Wade? Justified politically, until it wasn't.
Sterilizing trans minors? Justified politically, until it wasn't.
Giving Stacey Abrams a $2 billion grant in federal funds? Justified politically, until it wasn't.
I could go on... a long time.
You know, I'm empathetic to the isolationists (for lack of a better word) disappointment with Trump's decision. Heck, I'm torn between the right/wrong arguments. That said, much of the rhetoric has been so over-the-top I find myself being pushed toward the hawks. The anti-Israel/Jew stuff is especially off putting.
FNC's Griffin: "In 18 Years, I've Never Seen Such Operational Security"
Keep the above in mind when you read what the media says.
Slight off-topic, but in my opinion, heavily related:
The state of the union of the United States is not strong.
Here we are 9 months into a presidency that was supposed to be an inflection point for so many - a turning of the tide - where we were going to start focusing on THE MASSIVE STRUCTURAL PROBLEMS we have in the USA first instead of what every other fucking nation on Earth wants us to put second, and now we're off on another escapade in the Middle East.
We have so many bigger fish to fry in our national we're practically on the verge of capsizing, but no, let's keep focusing on the Middle East some more.
We are doing yet again what will prove to change nothing. This country is not only insane, but there are so many that work to see it doesn't get better.
Your position is highly understandable, Space. We could both be completely surprised by "what comes next." My fervent wish is for peace.
Hey didn't Trump also mention three peace deals the other day?
Re Space Mountain at 11:01:
Yes. Trump had a lot of momentum with the domestic agenda before this brief international distraction, and I think he chose the path that was available (thanks to IDF work before) and offered us the best chance to solve the Iran Nuke issue quickly, so he can back to business. My hunch is this week will be spent by Trump putting American business back at the fore, with the same relentless energy he brought to his first 100 days.
Every president is tested with a foreign policy Big Moment in the first year. If anyone can move on from that and redirect attention to internal issues Trump can.
As usual, those who say don't know; those who know don't say.
The IDF will continue to take out the military leaders. Then the so-called religious leaders. The IDF hit the gate of the prison where the political prisoners are held.
Iran is close to running out of missiles and missile launchers.
Iran has no cards left.
Within two weeks, there will be regime change.
The entire world is watching to see what Iran does, MJB. The pressure on them - especially from their friends - is huge to NOT BACK DOWN.
The globe, especially far more daunting enemies of the USA, are watching intently what happens next, and there will be repercussions far afield from Southwest Asia from this.
FormerLawClerk: Here's how you know the Trump Administration is lying about the damage (specifically at the Qoms enrichment site ... arguably the most important site "hit". Imagine if we had a real media. The interview would go like this:
Having extensive real-world experience in this field, I can cay for certain you have no earthly idea what you are talking about.
Those GBU-57's hit precisely where they were aimed. They functioned about 200' underground — there will be virtually no surface disruption other than that caused by the impact of the weapon itself.
The only question is whether the shock of the impact plus detonation would sufficiently disrupt the rock over the centrifuge vault to collapse the overlying rock ceiling. Note that the aimpoints were near existing ventilation shafts.
If that is true, then until Iran regains 3,000 centrifuges, its nuclear enrichment program is over.
Why does Iran need a nuclear weapon, anyway? To deter a country with which it doesn't share a border and presents no threat whatsoever?
Maybe it is time for you take shariah supremacism at its word.
"Within two weeks, there will be regime change."
Ah yes, "two week"...my old friend. Two weeks to flatten our nerves. Two weeks to slow the dead.
There are no side effects...
@former law clerk (10:38): Bunker busters detonate underground. What would the media see above ground other than entry craters?
Sanger's hits 2002, leaked the western war plan to Iraq
2006, leaked the dni from single source asghari, that said they had shut down their nuclear program in 2003 (pull my finger)
the book was much more informative about the program, 2012, conveniently leaked the stuixnet source code by General Cartwright,
the lesson here, is they don't leak in the Trump inner circles, and he has no other sources,
Iran even under the moderate Rafsanjani, has promised to nuke Israel, and we are the Greater Satan
I trust Skipper's expert opinion to be correct...all the way up to the lack of satisfactory certainty what the GBUs were supposed to accomplish was accomplished.
Skipper, you and I are both vets, and you know how often those optimistic assessments of weapon capability have turned out to be wrong.
Hope you're right. Hope we're right.
we've been told that there has been a fatwa against nuclear weapon production since 1989, other fairy tales that inform policy makers,
"Am certain Islamists fanatics could easily slaughter hunders, or thousands, with co-ordinated attacks on schools and shopping centers."
Years ago I was in a group trying to identify potential terrorist targets. Mainly focused on transportation. The (idiot) leading the discussion tried to only focus on military targets. I suggested that if you wanted to terrorize Americans make EVERYONE feel vulnerable. For example if you took out just three key bridges near Talladega, Alabama on race day you'd have hundreds of thousands trapped for days. Lots of mayhem to follow.
Try this one,,,, hit a dozen or so high school football stadiums scattered around the country on a fall Friday night. No one, and I mean NO ONE would sleep easy.
Just the facts, Ma'am.
It is hardly a stretch to believe that Iranian nukes would likely result in nuclear war in the Middle East with far reaching consequences.
"As usual, those who say don't know; those who know don't say."
Actually, that's not usual at all. But it appears this time to be a fact:
"JENNIFER GRIFFIN: “In 18 Years, I’ve Never Seen Such Operational Security.”
"The other thing I can point out is that this is an operation—in the last 18 years since I’ve been at the Pentagon—I’ve never seen such operational security. There was nobody speaking about this, any of the preparations. There was a complete lockdown—almost a blackout—of information for the last few days.
I’m sitting here in the Pentagon right now. I can tell you the hallways are empty. All of the information is coming right now out of the White House. That is a significant achievement because there were no leaks about the timing."
his last offering title escapes me, was a really cracked fairy tale about wise and brave Biden, I mean even William Goldman, would blanche,
RSM: ...all the way up to the lack of satisfactory certainty what the GBUs were supposed to accomplish was accomplished.
Something else to keep in mind which I forgot to mention: there are six identifiable impacts clustered around two points — the ventilation shafts. That means the weapons were close enough to each other for compounding effects.
Jupiter, I'm not the biggest fan of Gaetz, but I definitely agree with some of what he said.
Greg Hlatky said...
""The ultimate defense for the Iranian state"? Is that why they were taken out? Because they're defensive weapons?"
When you're the only guy in the neighborhood with the big gun, guess what? You get to tell everyone else what to do. You become the law. And the law will be whatever you say it will be.
Speaking for myself. I don't want a caliphate. I think Islam is a death cult for weak minded people. Let's not promote it.
I saw that too Skipper...here's to if wishes were horses.
RideSpaceMountain said...
The entire world is watching to see what Iran does, MJB. The pressure on them - especially from their friends - is huge to NOT BACK DOWN.
The globe, especially far more daunting enemies of the USA, are watching intently what happens next, and there will be repercussions far afield from Southwest Asia from this.
Of course everyone in the world is involved in this. Russia has naval bases and water way access. China and Europe are getting discount oil. A lot of shitheads are signed up with the mullahs.
Trump is removing this lever.
What is really odd to me is how badly Iran read this situation. Syria was taken from them and hezbola is effectively camped in their spawn. The Houthis were shown the door.
Even more Trump pulled the Sunni regimes into his orbit. They are all ready to normalize and get to business.
The mullahs are alone in the Middle East. Completely alone and isolated. China, Russia and Europe have no leverage over the immediate situation.
The mullahs won’t be around long.
"Why does Iran need a nuclear weapon, anyway? To deter a country with which it doesn't share a border and presents no threat whatsoever?"
Exactly.
Space: “… but no, let's keep focusing on the Middle East some more.” Aversion of nuclear war in the Middle East isn’t a bad focus, although the focus of this attack was obviously broader than that. Also deportations, riot control, tariffs, steel production, DOGE, revamping DoD, and a few other things seem to be in play.
they were fooled by good cop witcoff and boerer (sic) but there are more sagacious fellows like gorka, who has the wider counter terror portfolio, and ratcliffe, whether gabbard actually dissents is not absolutely clear
FullMoon said...
"Not sure Iran could do major damage here in USA.
Am certain Islamists fanatics could easily slaughter hunders, or thousands, with co-ordinated attacks on schools and shopping centers.
Could set the whole thing up via internet. Get a thousand soldiers with automatic weapons to hit a thousand shopping centers on Saturday."
If only we were country where weapons were readily available to the average citizen!
Oh, wait!
And huge pickups.
"The mullahs won’t be around long."
With baited breath, everyone will see how this goes...
I have a meeting to get to, but I don't like that the country did this. I did, do, and will consider this action as putting AMERICA SECOND.
It will affect my opinions and my support for other administration actions moving forward. Lots of others too.
THIS DID NOT MAGA.
Iran has been at war with us for 46 years? Why is that so hard for people to understand???
The old trope that air power alone cannot win a war will eventually be falsified by technology, if it hasn't been already. It depends on who and what they need to stay in power. It pretty much ended WWII in the Pacific, and few nations are as tenacious as the Japanese were.
k Major US Cities on Alert After US Airstrikes on Iranian Nuclear Facilities
Note the similarities between the statements:
"New York City Police Department stated in a post on X on the evening of June 21. “Out of an abundance of caution, we’re deploying additional resources to religious, cultural, and diplomatic sites across NYC [New York City] and coordinating with our federal partners."
“The Metropolitan Police Department is closely monitoring the events in Iran,” the statement reads. “We are actively coordinating with our local, state, and federal law enforcement partners to share information and monitor intelligence in order to help safeguard residents, businesses, and visitors in the District of Columbia.”
Across the Potomac River from Washington, Virginia’s Fairfax County Police Department said in a statement on June 22 that “out of an abundance of caution, you may see an increased police presence at certain locations, including religious institutions and public gathering areas” in response to “recent international events.”
Los Angeles: “There are no known credible threats at this time and out of an abundance of caution, LAPD is stepping up patrols near places of worship, community gathering spaces and other sensitive sites,” Bass wrote in a June 21 statement, referring to the Los Angeles Police Department. “We will remain vigilant in protecting our communities.”
Looks like there was a talking points memo.
"THIS DID NOT MAGA."
If it succeeds, it most certainly did. One of the things people want back is American success in it's endeavors. Trump is demonstrating smart intervention, as he did with ISIS in the first term. It's not just getting involved, but getting to the objective quickly with unrestrained precision. Trump was forced into this by the weakness of his predecessors who allowed it to fester. We would never be free of fatal Middle East entanglements if Iran got the bomb, and they could use it to control us by threatening others when our weak leaders return. There was no other option if we truly want MAGA.
I listened to the podcast. Have either of these 2 people reached out to the Iranian American community? Have they talked to any actual Iranians? They have all these opinions about what Iranians think but have they spoken to any Iranians. BTW if their opinions of Iranians are as correct as their opinions of Trump supporters . . . well then maybe it doesn’t matter. This is what’s so frustrating. I would like to hear from actual Iranians - in Iran preferably. But they may be afraid to speak freely. Then how about interviewing Iranians here in the US?
serious question:
what's a mindless liberal supposed to DO with ALL THESE FLAGS?
Ukraine.. Palestine.. Hamas.. Mexico.. and now Iran?
can't really fly more than one at a time.. FLAG surplus!
Maybe libs can just start flying backwards American flags?
You know? with the shield of stars on the right.. Not the left?
Maybe THAT would work?
"No new taxes." -- George H.W. Bush
"No new wars." -- Donald Trump
NYT says Trump’s incessant tweets, giving away his war plans, convinced the Iranians to hide a ton of uranium.
Officials Concede They Don’t Know the Fate of Iran’s Uranium Stockpile ~ NYT
RideSpaceMountain said...
"The mullahs won’t be around long."
I have a meeting to get to, but I don't like that the country did this. I did, do, and will consider this action as putting AMERICA SECOND.
That is an appropriate default state.
But every situation has different details and sometimes those details add up to taking action.
With the Mullahs in power China and Europe paid less for oil than the rest of the world.
With the mullahs in power we had to protect several countries in the ME. World trade was constantly held hostage. The rest of the world used Iran as a lever against us constantly.
We are taking that lever away and we are using Israel to do it. We are investing a shockingly small amount to do it and the benefits for the United States are huge. Yuge even.
America is Israel's bitch. Change my mind.
The Israeli/US combined operation was extremely effective and there is no way for the mullahs to reconstitute their forces that have been lost. Commenters like "space mountain" need to look at the totality of what has been accomplished over the last week. Israel decapitated Iran's command and control structure and decimated its anti-aircraft capabilities. With Israel's air superiority our bombers only had to worry about hitting their assigned targets. A tremendous, coordinated offensive operation that will have other potential opponents in the ME wetting their pants. So, after about a week Iran is no longer a nuclear threat and they are on the verge of being unable to defend themselves and/or conduct offensive operations. We have been absolutely crazy to allow Iranian nuclear development to go on for so long. I, for one, am ecstatic that threat has been removed. Will there be regime change? Who knows, and at this point do we care, really? Yes, there may be terror attacks in this country or others, but given the price Iran's leadership has paid so far, encouraging reprisal strikes not only by Israel, but the US would be utter foolishness.
PrimoStL said...
America is Israel's bitch. Change my mind.
It is the other way around.
Israel does almost all of the work. The US doesn’t have to deal with the constant attacks by Iran and proxies.
We pay less for oil as the Iranian discount to China and Europe equalizes and we gain leverage over Russian military bases in Syria.
The US gets all of the benefits and Israel does all of the work.
It seems as if RSM is taking shot and posting, taking a shot and posting. Slow down, Anger Boy
A Proffer: Democrat politicians and their MSM operatives are a Fifth Column in the US of A.
Prove me wrong.
“NO lone justice” —— Iman
Well said, bagoh20 @11:59.
Israel's nuclear program demands more scrutiny. Change my mind.
“The 2024 election of reformist President Masoud Pezeshkian, who campaigned on economic relief and nuclear talks, suggests public desire for de-escalation. A 2023 Gamaan Institute survey (pre-strikes) found only 34% of Iranians strongly supported weaponizing the nuclear program, with 46% prioritizing economic recovery over nuclear ambitions.”
This contradicts the podcast and might point to a popular uprising in Iran.
Admittedly, I’m selecting facts I like - still the situation may not be as bleak as the podcast implies.
look at what israel did to almost the entire hezbollah command staff we got back at mugniyeh, in 2008, we hired ashgari his handler, see notes above, shakr and the like,
should we have been in beirut, thats above my paygrade,
what we should have done was taken out baalbek,
no more rubble, as I've mentioned once upon a time, we trusted the shah with a civilian nuclear program, perhaps that was foolish, as we allowed aq khan to play his kahuta games,
we go back further, when Popular front took out Noel and Moore, with the knowledge of Arafat code name blood river,
Pesekian is still just another mouthpiece, another doctor like that fellow in Ahia,
Those of you who profess to be disappointed Trump supporters, because you believed Trump somehow promised that he would not get the US involved in any military action in the Middle East (he didn't, but whatever)--do you not remember Trump's first action as President in 2017--taking out the Russian base in Syria? Or the Suliemani action?
My take is that Trump does what needs to be done, regardless. He is hardly an "isolationist"--look at the Abraham Accords.
Trump is more in keeping with Reagan's punitive actions certainly in Libya, (which did have some blow back, as we saw with Pan Am 103) so should we not have retaliated for Labelle Discoteque,
JAORE,
You are describing the Beslan strategy. The only real sine qua non is for the attackers to not expect to survive.
I remember as a young lad, the Dems tried to impeach Reagan over Grenada, their version of fat Padilla, Henry Gonzalez, well nothing came of it, shows how much the currency of impeachment was already debased,
the Ayatollah, this one the last one, and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard do not listen to public opinion,
https://twitchy.com/samj/2025/06/23/irans-supreme-national-security-council-claimsirgc-and-army-pulverized-us-al-udeid-air-base-in-qatar-n2414627
Iran coordinated with Qatar in advance.
That’s good news, as long as Trump accepts the off ramp. Let Iran claim the victory at home and get back to negotiating.
“BREAKING: Iran’s Supreme National Security Council says its forces have “pulverized” the U.S. Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar in response to the American strike on Iranian nuclear sites. It says the number of missiles matched the number of U.S. bombs used, and claims the strike avoided civilian areas.”
https://x.com/FaytuksNetwork/status/1937194651770880071
PrimoStL said, "Israel's nuclear program demands more scrutiny. Change my mind."
No need to change what I factually agree with. There's an elephant in the room some people are desperate not to discuss.
@boatbuilder:
#1 I dislike discussion about this topic focusing on the word "isolationist". That IS NOT what those that oppose this are in the slightest. We are simply trying to say there is an alternative American foreign policy that is suspiciously somehow never considered, one that doesn't involve the existential crises of other nations always becoming our business
#2 Everyone keeps using this administration's other foreign military actions as some sort of 'gotcha' when the entire arguments is about the details and decision-making behind America's violent involvement in any of this shit in the ME anymore. We want this to stop, and if it won't stop - which it never does - then it needs to be conducted without America's intercedence, which has be never-ending for almost 80 years.
#3 We are involved in everything you just mentioned because it involves Israel, a country that has been historically proven to be unable to exist without our direct assistance (1973 for instance). Israel is the worst partner, the worst friend, the worst ally, and I don't mind saying it. A Joint Chiefs Army Colonel was recently dismissed for saying what I completely agree to be the truth. This country needs to examine its relationship with Israel in more detail...another elephant in the room.
I remain unconvinced. I will never agree with what we keep doing in the Middle East, short of nuking the whole fucking place.
PrimoStL said...
America is Israel's bitch. Change my mind.
6/23/25, 12:24 PM
PrimoStL said...
Israel's nuclear program demands more scrutiny. Change my mind.
6/23/25, 12:40 PM
...
1) Iran took over American land in 1979 and kept our people hostage for 444 (?) days. They paid no price. You're happy with that?
2) Iran took over our ships and took our sailors hostage. They paid no price. You're happy with that?
3) Iran bombed our soldiers at Khobar Towers. They paid no price. You're happy with that?
4) (There was another bombing of our soldiers but it escapes me at this moment.)
5) Iran brought shaped charges/IED's to Iraq and killed countless of our soldiers. They paid no price. You're happy with that?
We have owed them quite a lot for quite a long time. The fact that paying a blood debt helps another country is immaterial.
Re: Israel's nuclear program - is there any suggestion that Israel is an expansionist theocracy that seeks world domination? No? Are we concerned that the USA has nukes? France? (Well France for another reason) We are not concerned that democracies have nukes or powerful armies bec they are democracies and are not expansionist.
RideSpaceMountain said...
@boatbuilder:
#1 I dislike discussion about this topic focusing on the word "isolationist". That IS NOT what those that oppose this are in the slightest. We are simply trying to say there is an alternative American foreign policy that is suspiciously somehow never considered, one that doesn't involve the existential crises of other nations always becoming our business
#2 Everyone keeps using this administration's other foreign military actions as some sort of 'gotcha' when the entire arguments is about the details and decision-making behind America's violent involvement in any of this shit in the ME anymore. We want this to stop, and if it won't stop - which it never does - then it needs to be conducted without America's intercedence, which has be never-ending for almost 80 years.
#3 We are involved in everything you just mentioned because it involves Israel, a country that has been historically proven to be unable to exist without our direct assistance (1973 for instance). Israel is the worst partner, the worst friend, the worst ally, and I don't mind saying it. A Joint Chiefs Army Colonel was recently dismissed for saying what I completely agree to be the truth. This country needs to examine its relationship with Israel in more detail...another elephant in the room.
I remain unconvinced. I will never agree with what we keep doing in the Middle East, short of nuking the whole fucking place.
...
1) The world's economy runs on oil
2) Whoever controls the oil controls the world.
3) Some massive amount (80%?) of the world's oils passes through the ME.
4) Someone is going to control its passage.
So the question is - who do you want in control of this? Your choices are USA, China, or Iran. If it's going to be USA we need to be involved in the ME. If you don't want us involved in the ME it WILL BE Iran or China. Do you think the world will be a better place with Iran or China in charge of oil?
The crown Prince of Iran, son of the exiled Shah, is mounting a credible effort to restore true Democracy in Iran. He claims to have considerable support from the military. There is huge opposition to the Islamic government of Iran, as is evident in the rise of Zoroastrianism, the fastest growing religion in Iran, and the decline of Islam. Maybe the Iranian government is focused on holding onto power at home.
10 missiles, 9 intercepted, 1 hit some desert. Corrdindated with Qatar. Back to status quo with the US I guess? Let's hope the IDF finishes this.
Hmmm. Nineteen of ninety-six comments on this thread are from 'RideSpaceMountain', who wrote at 10:36am "We're not even 9 months into this presidency", and at 11:01am "Here we are 9 months into a presidency that . . .", as if we'd just passed the 9-month mark in the intervening 25 months.
In fact, as I write, we are 5 months, 3 days, and 2+ hours into this presidency, which is not much more than half of 9 months. Someone needs to shut up, go away, and come back when he's able to make arguments that are in touch with reality. It's possible that someone is me, but I don't think so.
seems to be trapped in a moebius loop, next thing he'll be riffing on in Mossadecq, the only greater fool to the Shah, because he angered the same two group the mullahs and the merchants, 25 years apart,
Is the internet back on yet, in Iran?
The longer the period of time that elapses post-airstrike, the more it will clarify that the B-2 mission was a surgical move, not to be escalated. That's my prediction: They now know there's a Big Stick. I think Trump prefers that Iran figures out how it's going to be led, politically and socially, going forward. Israel is going to continue excising military and religious leadership at will, as/when they make themselves into a nuisance. I think Israel wants a more modern style of leadership, not mullahs prone to chanting hurtful things, or generals prone to doing them.
Iraq and Azerbaijan are the two other majority-Shia countries. Sunnis are far more pervasive across the globe.
The crown Prince of Iran, son of the exiled Shah, is mounting a credible effort to restore true Democracy in Iran.
Gee, you mean he is going to restore pre-1953 government, before the CIA ousted a democratically elected (and popular) government and replaced him with the Shah (this guy's father or grandfather).
As if an administration doesn't actually start a functional transition even before its successful election, especially considering Joe "Cauliflowers have more cognition than I do" Biden. It's been 230 days since Trump has been president, so I'll correct myself in saying this administration has been in control for almost 8 months, Dr. Weevil.
Can we move on now from this semantic distraction?
like that old geico commercial thats not how anything works
“this administration has been in control for almost 8 months, Dr. Weevil.”
January 20th to June 20th that’s5 months. How you figuring 9 months?
“As if an administration doesn't actually start a functional transition even before its successful election”
No. One President at a time.
lonejustice said...
"No new taxes." -- George H.W. Bush
"No new wars." -- Donald Trump
It is a good thing Trump didn’t start a war then.
and Freder picked up the Mossadecq chestnut, you get the steak knives,
"So the question is - who do you want in control of this? Your choices are USA, China, or Iran."
You've made this point before, and I've never really given it an answer, so here goes:
I would rather life Amish and join forces with the Eco-Nuts than give any further fucks about the ME and their oil. If I could, I would pump every drop of light sweet crude I could so they could think happy happy thoughts forever as they drowned in it. I would rather pay higher price at the pump for the pleasure of knowing that was American oil in my American gas tank and let other countries worry about which country's oil was in theirs. Those people were goat-raiding tribal head-choppers before they got rich, and NOTHING really changed except our wealth lets them own lots of Ferraris now.
I choose the USA. That's my country. That's the country I want to get healthy, and prosperous, and more successful. And if focusing on America first means some of the world has to burn, so be it. My citizenship contract with the United States is based on the constitution, and the constitution has it written nowhere that this country is the global policeman.
I'll go away now Dr. Weevil. Perhaps that will make everyone happy.
“As if an administration doesn't actually start a functional transition even before its successful election”.
The democrats ruined Michael Flynn over that.
Calling a gross and obvious (and repeated!) error a "semantic distraction" is deeply dishonest. So is saying "You all know" something, where many of us do not "know" any such thing, even if we agree that it may (or may not) turn out to be true. And making 20% of the comments on a post without even trying to make them worth reading is arrogant and selfish.
@Hey Skipper
"Iran's nuclear enrichment program is over.
You can convince me. Just don't hand me a satellite photo showing zero damage and claim that's your proof.
Show me.
I love hearing people talk about how "Iran can't do much to us" "Maybe a few sleeper cells" "Maybe a few bases and ships get hit".
The Question is: why is any of this neccessary? This is israel's fight not ours. We shouldn't lose one American life in defense of Israel's desire not to have a non-nuclear war. Or forcing "Regime change" in Iran.
and Freder picked up the Mossadecq chestnut, you get the steak knives,
Thank you, I hope they are genuine Ginsu knives.
I didn't start this, Antiantifa raised the pathetic Shah in Exile's ridiculous assertions. I didn't think anyone thought that reinstating the Peacock Throne was a serious possibility.
As for what China and Russia will do. They can provide nuclear material to Iran and a lot else. We've been spending hundreds of $Billions$ to, In Miss Lindsey's words, "Kill Ruskiees" in Ukraine.
Maybe if we get more involved in Iran, Mr. Putin will return the favor.
RideSpaceMountain said...
"So the question is - who do you want in control of this? Your choices are USA, China, or Iran."
You've made this point before, and I've never really given it an answer, so here goes:
I would rather life Amish and join forces with the Eco-Nuts than give any further fucks about the ME and their oil. If I could, I would pump every drop of light sweet crude I could so they could think happy happy thoughts forever as they drowned in it. I would rather pay higher price at the pump for the pleasure of knowing that was American oil in my American gas tank and let other countries worry about which country's oil was in theirs. Those people were goat-raiding tribal head-choppers before they got rich, and NOTHING really changed except our wealth lets them own lots of Ferraris now.
I choose the USA. That's my country. That's the country I want to get healthy, and prosperous, and more successful. And if focusing on America first means some of the world has to burn, so be it. My citizenship contract with the United States is based on the constitution, and the constitution has it written nowhere that this country is the global policeman.
I'll go away now Dr. Weevil. Perhaps that will make everyone happy.
6/23/25, 2:07 PM
...
We can't support 330 M people in this country without power. We won't have food. Or heat. Or air conditioning. We won't be able to get to our jobs. Millions will die. I would think there would be revolution.
The reality is our survival is predicated on abundant energy which in 2025 means oil. The republic will not continue to exist without it.
In foreign policy the sad reality is that our adversaries (and our allies, for that matter) have a vote. Donald Trump has a policy summarized as “no new wars.” He also has a policy summarized as “Iran must never be allowed to have nukes.” Iran itself has taken steps to place those two policies into conflict. What to do, what to do? Keep our bombers grounded In Missouri, with the downside risk that some of Iran’s nukes will be detonating in major American cities? Or should the US send stealth bombers and Tomahawk missiles to destroy the ability of Iran ever to make uranium-based bombs and accept the risk that RideSpaceMountain (and thousands of like-minded individuals) will be pissed at him?
I happen to be among the people who believes that Donald Trump made the right choice, for the following reasons:
(1) This is not a new war; it has been running for 46 years. I have read that Iran formally declared war on us in 1980 and has never engaged us in peace negotiations nor made moves to cancel that formal declaration of war. And the butcher’s bill is getting up there — nearly 1000 last time I looked.
(2) The first nuclear device that Iran builds will be used on Israel. And the 2nd? And the 3rd? If enough are made (they are estimated to have material for 9 or 10 bombs), then at least one bomb will be detonated in a major US city, and the cost in American lives will be in the millions. I see no way to calculate a downside risk of that happening that is low enough to make it an acceptable risk.
So I support Trump’s actions, while I understand and accept that other people may reach a different conclusion.
I'd like to avoid conflict with Russia, given they have 10,000 nuclear warheads. Or China which has plenty.
But hey lets risk that to help Zelenskyyyy and fight Iran for Israel. Because even if its WW III we can win that. Course we'll get our hair mussed. But only 10-20 million dead - Tops. Depending on the breaks. To misquote George C. Scott.
RCOCEAN II said...
As for what China and Russia will do. They can provide nuclear material to Iran and a lot else. We've been spending hundreds of $Billions$ to, In Miss Lindsey's words, "Kill Ruskiees" in Ukraine.
Maybe if we get more involved in Iran, Mr. Putin will return the favor.
6/23/25, 2:21 PM
...
As I mentioned above the world economy is predicated on abundant energy and energy means oil in 2025. If we are not in the ME, it will be Iran or China (and probably Russia) that controls oil which is to say controls the world's economy, which is to say controls the world.
And despite RSM's hope, we cannot return to an 1800's economy. It's not sufficiently productive which means mass starvation which means revolution.
Finally Iran talks about defeating the Great Satan - us - as a greater goal than Israel. Even if we were done with them, they are not done with us. We can choose to have an economy that is so strong that we can protect Western Civilization or we can choose to have an economy too weak and let the enemies of West Civ win.
Someone will rule the world. The question is do you want it to be us, Iran, China, or Russia? Nature abhors a vacuum.
"Someone will rule the world. The question is do you want it to be us, Iran, China, or Russia? Nature abhors a vacuum."
So Iran wants to rule the world. What's the evidence of that? LOL. The last time Iran (persia) invaded another country and started a war was....Nadir Shah’s Invasion of Mughal India (1738–1739).
Its hilarious that we have military bases all over the world and are constantly bombing other countries that are no threat to us. But its the "other countries" that are trying to "Conquer the world111"
Whenever some American pulls the moronic "we need to fight them over there, or we'll fighting them on beaches of LA or Miami" - you know they just love war. Because its too stupid for anyone to actually believe.
11:59 Bagoh - 100% #
“Possible” this. “Probably” that. “Could be” some other thing. I don’t think there is such a thing as a Mid-East expert who has the faintest clue about the mad mullahs. They might as well be an alien species.
"I don’t think there is such a thing as a Mid-East expert who has the faintest clue about the mad mullahs. They might as well be an alien species."
Americans love bombing what they don't understand. Killing what we don't get is practically a tradition at this point.
there are a few like Dr Gorka, General Flynn, after that its a very short list, most everyone of the talking heads that appear have no clue, and are insistent in proving it,
I would like to have space mountain explain what his response would be if Iran had, as they have threatened, nuked Israel as soon as they were able. I would also like to have him explain how Iran, once they had a bomb, would not have used it against the US as they have also threatened. As I said earlier I am ecstatic that Iran's nuclear threat has been reduced, if not eliminated. I think those here who believe, somehow, that Iran was not a real threat to both Israel and the US are delusional. I am impressed that Trump had the courage to make the decision and carry out a long needed action. It has been a long time since I have so vehemently disagreed with some of the commenters here. Those who are taking exception to removing the threat of Iranian nuclear bombs are clearly ignorant of history - particularly the history of Islam.
the Iranian Revolutionary Guard do have a notion about some cohort of Americans, the ones who wave the Palestinian tricolor, who have representatives in academia, in higher ranks,
of the government, like Al Quds Brennan Charles Freeman et al,
RCOCEAN II said...
"Someone will rule the world. The question is do you want it to be us, Iran, China, or Russia? Nature abhors a vacuum."
So Iran wants to rule the world. What's the evidence of that? LOL. The last time Iran (persia) invaded another country and started a war was....Nadir Shah’s Invasion of Mughal India (1738–1739).
Its hilarious that we have military bases all over the world and are constantly bombing other countries that are no threat to us. But its the "other countries" that are trying to "Conquer the world111"
6/23/25, 2:33 PM
...
Iran wants to rule the Middle East and wants the world to submit to Islam to be ruled by them. There is of course the principle in Islam of dar es islam - the world ruled by Islam - and the world at war, meaning that if Islam is not the rule of the land there is an obligation to fight war against that part of the world until it submits. It wants to rule the ME which means it wants control of - for the most part - the world's oil, which means the world economy. Which means the world.
For those of you who seem to have no idea of the motivations of the mullahs in Iran I recommend the following Sword and Scimitar by Raymond Ibrahim
Isn’t the fact that only 9 countries have condemned the bombing of the nuclear facilities proof that everyone in the Middle East is quite satisfied with our actions?
No one likes you Iran.
tiny oman and pakistan, which is also a nuclear power, perhaps with designs on the baloch,
RIYADH: Saudi Arabia on Monday condemned strikes launched by Iran on targets in Qatar, a foreign ministry statement said.
“The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia condemns and denounces in the strongest terms the aggression launched by Iran against the sisterly State of Qatar, which constitutes a flagrant violation of international law and the principles of good neighborliness,” the statement said.
“It is unacceptable and cannot be justified under any circumstances,” it added.
Fox News has the best information.
I can only imagine how wretched MSNBC is.
Iran's short range ballistic bombs over Qatar were intercepted. All of them.
Also not found in the hack-Soviet press-
Israel has made sure access to Iran's old Nuke sites = crushed even more.
I see many leftists are standing in support with the old Ruling Fist Islamic supremacist theocracy of Iran. Have fun.
I see many leftists are standing in support with the old Ruling Fist Islamic supremacist theocracy of Iran. Have fun.
No, I am standing in support of the Constitution, which clearly states that going to war is not the decision of the President, but the Congress.
I see many leftists are standing in support with the old Ruling Fist Islamic supremacist theocracy of Iran. Have fun.
No, I am standing in support of the Constitution, which clearly states that going to war is not the decision of the President, but the Congress.
***************
Baloney. See above. See many others ripping that idiocy part.
Lefties: I hate the male patriarchy and I love LGBTQ+ and Iran and Hamas. What could go wrong?
Big Mike said:
"This is not a new war; it has been running for 46 years. I have read that Iran formally declared war on us in 1980 and has never engaged us in peace negotiations nor made moves to cancel that formal declaration of war."
***************
There was no formal declaration of war, only severing of diplomatic relations.
BUT Iran's many attacks against US troops and facilities in the last 46 years were de facto acts of war. So, I agree: not a new war.
Leftist females: We are terrified Margaret Atwood's book is real! Baptists are going to grab us off the streets and force us to have babies!
Also leftists - women of Iran have it worse? *crickets*
Iran has been at war with us for 46 years? Why is that so hard for people to understand???
Because they don't want to understand it. If they did, they'd lose all their strawman arguments.
"No new taxes." -- George H.W. Bush
"No new wars." -- Donald Trump
When we bombed Libya in 1986, were we at war with Libya?
When we bombed Kosovo in the mid-90s, were we at war with Kosovo?
When we bombed Libya again in 2013, we were at war with Libay?
Anytime and every time we bomb a place, are we at war with them?
You are beyond tedious.
Maybe they got it out of their system, and now they are ready to sue for peace?
Disagree with your take Fredo. Trump - like all presidents - had the legal emergency authority (90 days) to do this, no matter how wrong I think it was.
minnesota farm guy said, "I would like to have space mountain explain what his response would be if Iran had, as they have threatened, nuked Israel as soon as they were able. I would also like to have him explain how Iran, once they had a bomb, would not have used it against the US as they have also threatened."
Since you asked...to your first question Israel would've nuked them back with Jericho 4s, maybe more than once. Congratulations Middle Easterners, you have achieved the eschatological goals outlined in your idiot manuals. Please...don't let us stop you, and please keep your armageddon contained in your hideously shitty containment zone/sandbox or prepare for a large number of inbound Trident missile sorties. My personal response in a nutshell.
To your 2nd question, we would in essence be where we are now with bellicose countries like N. Korea talking "about how much they would like to nuke 'imperliasts' all the time." This question was also largely answered in the first one - there's a big difference between threats and action, and nuclear action against the United States will result in your nation ceasing to exist. Not hard...have a nice artificial day. Bring SPF 10,000.
It's interesting that for decades my response was what used to be the policy of the USA, but just changed this weekend - "We do not like nuclear proliferation (except for Israel) and will work hard to see that they don't spread (except for Israel), and if you somehow want one and you get one (like Israel), you get to play with the big boys...what you say doesn't matter as much as what you do with it - i.e. meaning if you're really dumb enough to use it on us, we'll ionize you."
I'm completely for eschatological accelerationism vis-a-vis the Middle East. If they would all kill each other and keep it to themselves I'd probably support the USA helping them commit suicide. It's not like I'm in any hurry to go back...as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't return to that hideous place unless I was wearing RADHAZ/MOPP gear anyway.
Don't let the headlines fool you.
Whether it's hours,
Days, weeks, months,
Or even years.
It ain't over, over there,
It never is.
Freder Frederson said...
I see many leftists are standing in support with the old Ruling Fist Islamic supremacist theocracy of Iran. Have fun.
No, I am standing in support of the Constitution, which clearly states that going to war is not the decision of the President, but the Congress.
"We came. We saw. He died"
- Hillary Clinton
Mr Obama also defended the use of drones to kill four US citizens.
"We are at war with an organisation that right now would kill as many Americans as they could if we did not stop them first," he said in Thursday's address at the National Defense University in Washington DC.
"So this is a just war - a war waged proportionally, in last resort, and in self-defence."
Freder doesn't believe a single word he is saying.
No, I am standing in support of the Constitution, which clearly states that going to war is not the decision of the President, but the Congress.
Please document your stout defense of the Constitution each and every time President Boyfriend bombed something.
Did we bomb "Kosovo" or Serbia?
PrimoStL said...
"I don’t think there is such a thing as a Mid-East expert who has the faintest clue about the mad mullahs. They might as well be an alien species."
Americans love bombing what they don't understand. Killing what we don't get is practically a tradition at this point.
I do not know how understanding this would make your point. You obviously don't seem to understand it.
The Shia sect of Islam is crazy. They have a day where they cut themselves and affirm their commitment to killing everyone else and in particular the Sunni Caliphs. This might explain why every other country in the ME is doing their best to help us remove the Mullahs.
The other part is that it is ruled by the Azerbaijiani who are a minority ethnicity in the country.
Putting the Persians back in charge just seems like a good idea in general.
Freder - If Trump engages actual war - I'm sure he will do that.
And none of this BS in the ME would or will have any effect on us except , perhaps, for the radioactive cloud that would eventually engulf us? There are times when you should fight and times when you should not. I am sure my Viet Nam experience was no less frustrating than whatever military service is motivating you. However I still believe there is a time to take military action. The case of Iran has been crying out for action for decades. As far as Israel is concerned: I believe it has a right to exist and defend itself which it has earned through numerous pogroms and Final Solutions over the centuries. As far as the Arabs are concerned: they respect strength and you can believe there are some serious discussions going on about how to deal with a US that is willing to stick one in your ear when you deserve it.
Space Mountain: your problem is you expect a rational Western civ reaction from Iran. If you take the time to read Ibrahim's book, you will learn that the mullahs operate under a different standard.
Iran wants to rule the Middle East and wants the world to submit to Islam to be ruled by them.
In a world devoid of Western hegemony, they could and would do it, too, just like they have many times before. From the Medeans to the Achaemenids to the Seleucids to the Parthians to the Sassanids to the Safavids, they ruled over large swathes of the Middle East for much of the past 3000 years. The Arabs and Turks have had the upper hand over the Persians for much of the Muslim era, but Iran is a large and wealthy country full of intelligent people. Even without a nuclear bomb, they have the potential to be a match for the other regional powers like Turkey and Egypt and Pakistan.
MFG, Israel's right to exist and the right of Jews to have a homeland - which I believe they do - has nothing to do in my opinion with any right whatsoever to a nuclear weapons program largely obtained by subterfuge committed against US. From the Rosenbergs to The Lavon Affair and so many many more, Israel has obtained for itself what the USA never intended it to have, and then had the gall to use what we told them "no" over to manipulate us into an ultimatum that precipitated the first OPEC crisis.
I don't trust Israel as far as I can throw it. Not only do they spy on us they manipulate our politics. Should it exist? Yes. Should Jews have a home? Absolutely. Should they have nukes in effect stole from us? Absolutely not. If you haven't noticed, everything occurring is hyper-focused on keeping this aspect of the conversation from being discussed, and it needs to be.
The USA is still being manipulated, and all the holocaust guilt in the world isn't going to make millions of me any less satisfied with us being dragged into decisions others have made for us.
If Israel - at almost 80 - still can't stand on her own, that is Israel's problem, not ours.
Kenny O'Donnell: Commander, my name is Ken O'Donnell, special assistant to the President.
Commander William B. Ecker: Yes sir.
Kenny O'Donnell: The President has instructed me to pass along an order to you. You are not to get shot down.
Commander William B. Ecker: Uh, we'll do our best sir.
Kenny O'Donnell: I don't think you understand me, Commander. You are not to get shot down, under any circumstances. Whatever happens up there, you were not shot at. Mechanical failures are fine. Crashing into mountains, fine. But you and your men are not to be shot at, fired at, or launched upon.
Commander William B. Ecker: Excuse me sir, what the hell is going on here?
Kenny O'Donnell: Commander, if you are fired upon, the President will be forced to attack the sites that fire on you. He doesn't want to have to do that. It's very important that he doesn't, or things can go very badly out of control.
Commander William B. Ecker: What about my men? We don't have anyone to protect us, I don't want to be writing letters home to parents.
Kenny O'Donnell: If the President protects you, Commander, he may have to do it with the bomb. Now I've known the man for fifteen years. The problem is... he will protect you. So I'm asking you, don't make him protect you. Don't get shot at.
Commander William B. Ecker: Okay Mister O'Donnell, we'll do what we can.
Kenny O'Donnell: I know you will.
n.n said...
Did we bomb "Kosovo" or Serbia?
BOTH! at least two different times!
Robert McNamara: A blockade is technically an act of war; therefore we recommend calling the action a quarantine.
Kenny O'Donnell: Let's hope that translates into Russian the way we want it to.
someone said..
..don't let us stop you, and please keep your armageddon contained in your hideously shitty containment zone/sandbox..
so? you have NO PROBLEM with a nuclear war, which would almost certainly escalate?
"..or prepare for a large number of inbound Trident missile sorties.."
oh! there we go! you have NO PROBLEM with a FULL SCALE nuclear shooting war, no matter the consequences; because you can't be bothered right now, or something.. BUT! once the Iranians start nuking Israel (and Saudi Arabia), and THOSE countries start shooting back, and missiles start flying Every Which WAY..
Your "answer" is for MASSIVE Retaliation. Seems like an interesting way to end the world.
OR, we could grasp the nettle NOW, and strike BEFORE they have nukes, and TRY NOT to destroy the world..
Oh Wait! That's what Trump is doing!
It is December 7th, 1941. Freder is in Pearl Harbor, paddling a kayak up and down “Battleship Row” yelling at the American sailors not to shoot back because Congress has not yet declared war.
Big Mike - LOLOLOL Thank you.
FormerLawClerk: You can convince me. Just don't hand me a satellite photo showing zero damage and claim that's your proof.
Show me.
I will no longer treat you as being serious.
Fourteen MOPs were used on Fordow. There are six impact craters. That means eight MOPs went into the same hole as the first six.
Why?
Because the MOPs could be expected to get as far as 200' into a target 270' deep. It is possible that the impact shock wave and explosive detonation wouldn't spall the roof of the centrifuge gallery. So, just to make sure, six aimpoints got a second MOP, and one got a third.
Every one of them went into the same hole as the first, and with the same trajectory, in case the first didn't do the job.
But, because the weapon won't function until it stops, it is possible that the first functioned above the centrifuge gallery, and the second below it.
For those who are so stupid as to invoke satellite imagery for something that happened underground, there is no way that the MOPs did not impose significant violence within the gallery. Moreover, the impact points were chosen to trisect the gallery.
Since you are so ignorant as to invoke satellite imagery for underground events, it will no doubt come as a surprise that the centrifuges contain uranium hexafloride, which is highly reactive, creating very toxic and corrosive gases.
The most likely result is that roughly a third of the centrifuges were directly destroyed, and the rest of the gallery was so badly damaged by the release of U-hexafloride as to completely destroy the centrifuges.
Without which the Iranian nuclear program no longer exists.
The Big, Beautiful War is Over. The Big, Beautiful Ceasefire is on. RIdeSpaceMountain weeps.
Freder only likes our Constitution when the rights of wrong people are being trampled.
Hence his support of gun control.
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