From "Stalin’s Image Returns to Moscow’s Subway, Honoring a Brutal History/The Kremlin has increasingly embraced the Soviet dictator and his legacy, using them to exalt Russian history in a time of war, but he remains a deeply divisive figure in Russia" (NYT).
May 28, 2025
"Among those admiring the work on a recent visit was Liliya A. Medvedeva, who said she was 'very happy that our leader got restored.'"
"'We won the war thanks to him,' said Ms. Medvedeva, a pensioner born in 1950, adding that she was grateful that Stalin didn’t send her father to the Gulag even though he was taken prisoner during World War II — something that was equated with treason at the time. 'Yes, there were many mistakes, but everybody makes mistakes.' In a country where criticizing government action can be dangerous, it is unclear how many people disagree with Ms. Medvedeva’s positive view.... But nostalgia for the Soviet era is strong, especially among older generations traumatized by the painful transition to capitalism...."
From "Stalin’s Image Returns to Moscow’s Subway, Honoring a Brutal History/The Kremlin has increasingly embraced the Soviet dictator and his legacy, using them to exalt Russian history in a time of war, but he remains a deeply divisive figure in Russia" (NYT).
"President Putin has repeatedly condemned Stalin over the years, and recognized that terrible crimes were committed under his rule.... [But i]n 2017, Mr. Putin told the filmmaker Oliver Stone that 'excessive demonization of Stalin has been one of the ways to attack the Soviet Union and Russia.'... 'The creeping re-Stalinization of the country is dangerous...' said Lev Shlosberg, a Russian opposition politician and member of the liberal Yabloko party that started a petition to dismantle the monument in the Moscow metro...."
From "Stalin’s Image Returns to Moscow’s Subway, Honoring a Brutal History/The Kremlin has increasingly embraced the Soviet dictator and his legacy, using them to exalt Russian history in a time of war, but he remains a deeply divisive figure in Russia" (NYT).
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79 comments:
Stalin is Hitler with better PR.
Our American Stalinists, "victims" of the Hollywood blacklist, are venerated to this day.
I wonder if they ever show the film The Death of Stalin in Russia. Would Putin get a laugh out of it?
You can only quench history so much before it pops back up again, in a way you didn't intend. Ugh - a guy that arguably sent more people to their death than Hitler, and in ways at least as evil, yet here he is - remembered nostalgically because of the stability that came from being terrorized, preferable however miserable. And that frieze-style statue, heros of the Motherland. Ugh.
80 years later what are going to do? 20 million dead and they won the war. So, might as well honor him. The French did the same thing with Napoleon. People still glorify Lincoln, he saved the Union and got rid of slavery. So what if 500,000 died and he trashed the constitution.
Dont the Mongolians honor Ghenghis Kahn?
I love the NYTs always lards their propaganda into every article. "In a country where its dangerous to criticize..." LOL. There's a fucking liberal oppostion party that attacks Putin all the time. There are Russian newspapers that attack Putin all the time.
Where is oppostion to Zelensky? Oh wait, those people are thrown in jail. Where are the opposition parties and newspapers in Ukraine? Oh wait, they don't exist.
And the NYT's to criticize Russia for "censorship" or a "Lack of free speech" is hilarious. One could just easily write "In a country where criticizing the Jews or denying the holocaust can be dangerous..." about every country in Europe. Hell, you can go to Jail for 3 years in the UK for a nasty tweet about "Migrants".
Well we won the war didn't we? That always reminds me of how boobus Americanus always acts in every war.
Stage 1 - Go to war with X, that's crazy. I cant even find X on a map
Stage 2 - We're at war, winning is the only thing that matters. No compromise with the enemy. Unconditional Surrender.
Stage 3 - We won the war. Lets go back to making money.
Stage 4 - why did we go to war with X? I cant even find X on a map.
Best way to describe America's relationship with Stalin is It's complicated. In 1940, the Pentagon estimated it would take 210 divisions and a subsequent 1.5 million dead Yanks in order to crush the Nazis. Because the Man of Steel rallied his people to throw themselves mercilessly upon the Wehrmacht and pay the blood price for defeating Hitler, we only sent 90 divisions and suffered just 300,000 dead.
One can recognize and condemn Stalin's brutality while acknowledging how many American lives he saved.
One can recognize and condemn Stalin's brutality while acknowledging how many American lives he saved.
On one hand, on the other hand, always and forever.
All's fair in lust and abortion? To what end?
Is the purpose of this article to make Putin appear to be more dictatorial, powerful and dangerous than he is? To justify more money and weapons to Ukraine to prolong the war?
What is the end game here? Is the plan to [try to] take out Russia entirely?
If so, count me out.
I can see the attraction. Stalin represents the height of Russian power and prestige while they have been in inexorable decline a since the fall of the Soviet Union.
Time has a way of boiling things down to a few bedrock values.
Stalin migrated from the outer limits of the Soviet Union. Should that be noted? Perhaps he was influenced by the Ottoman empire.
Michael said...One can recognize and condemn Stalin's brutality while acknowledging how many American lives he saved.
Well...the only life he was really motivated to save was his own. The rest is just bonus.
“There were mistakes made!” Small sign under new Stalin monument.
Ocean: “ Dont the Mongolians honor Ghenghis Kahn?”
Heck, we have a commenter named after him!
JSM
Is this a Russian example of former leaders, known during their tenure in office to be just as horrible as Hitler, gaining some measure of respect in hindsight? And an actually apt example of being as bad as Hitler?
Alexander the Great killed huge percentages of the Human population. Put entire cities to the sword. Every Roman popular Roman leader was known for completely leveling recalcitrant towns. Truman Dropped 2 nuclear bombs, the second of which was pretty obviously unnecessary. People already mentioned Temujin.
I guess the line is drawn with people like Stalin and Hitler and Mao in that they killed their own people to maintain their political power rather than people in other tribes.
It is interesting to me that Stalin would be popular in Russia when his distinguishing characteristic as a leader is that he kind of focused on killing Russians and was only marginally good at killing people in other tribes.
Fred Merz, German Chancellor, says that Germany is going to provide long range stealth missiles, operated by German personnel, and using US satellite intelligence, to strike deep in Russia and bring them to the table over their counter intervention in the Ukrainian civil war, basically that Germany is going to commit acts of open warfare against Russia, and we are worried about posters in the Moscow metro about the man who drove the Germans, who were within site of the spires of Moscow, back to Berlin where they belonged.
The two news items are not unrelated, I think.
"In 1940, the Pentagon estimated it would take 210 divisions and a subsequent 1.5 million dead Yanks in order to crush the Nazis."
80 percent of the USA public was against going to war with Germany in 1940-1941. FDR only got elected by lying about his support for a war. There was no reason for us to send 210 division to europe to "defeat the Nazis". Hitler had no Navy, and had no desire to CONQUER THE WORLD.
Stalin didn't save us, we saved him. And paid for it with a 40 year cold war that killed 100,000 Americans in Korea and Vietnam and cost trillions.
At some point to maintain society you must maintain a certain level of pride in the historical accomplishments of your tribe and you need to honor those who built the civilization you currently live in.
This is why the progressives are trying to erase and change our history as a country.
No the line is drawn with Hilter, because of the Jews. Brutal honesty.
As some have started noting the current war in Ukraine is just a continuation of the war between the National Socialists and the International Socialists.
Germany is right back to it's National Socialist ways.
Germany is not our ally and we need to subjugate them again.
An unprecedented number of lives aborted, for social progress? No. Still, it was his Choice in the wake of incursion, rape, torture, etc., an existential threat to the viability of diverse people. A threat with Diversity motives, an ethnic Spring with promises of redistributive change. There was collateral damage from mismanagement, Incompetence, too.
Divisive? Stalin was a fkkking brutal murderer.
ugh.
American Antifa Thugs(D) love Stalin.
Hamasidols? Perhaps.
I wonder how much of the Russian rehabilitation of Stalin has to do with the fact that he killed a lot Ukrainians.
Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. NYT should do a story on liberal license with progressive conditions and wicked solutions.
Mao and Stalin were motivators par excellence. The motivational tools needed to persuade people to kill millions of their own countrymen are surprisingly accessible. They are only exaggerated versions of the incentive systems offered by schools and complex organizations. The key is to offer both a future of shining , almost post-human transcendence, and a present grounded in intense fear that you might be regarded as an impediment to that transcendence, requiring elimination. Turn that urgency factor to high, and the resulting moral dispensation allows homicide on a grand scale.
People are wired to forget how evil they have been.
"I wonder how much of the Russian rehabilitation of Stalin has to do with the fact that he killed a lot Ukrainians."
There were a lot of Ukrainians killed by the Soviet famine, lot's of others too. Those not utterly in the thrall of Ukrainian propaganda know this. There was a widespread drought, which happened at the same time as the communist collectivization of the farms. I suppose Ukrainians believe that the Georgian, Stalin, was some kind of weather god who could strategically place droughts.
But it can never be let go in the same way that the Ukrainian pogroms and enthusiastic alliance with the German Nazis and active participation in the Holocaust—even its reverence today for the leaders involved—is let go.
In 1940, the Pentagon estimated it would take 210 divisions and a subsequent 1.5 million dead Yanks in order to crush the Nazis.
The peak strength of both the US armed forces and the the Red Army were fairly similar (about 11-12 million). Yet the USSR had 9 million military dead while the US had about 400,000. We also didn't actually have much of an army or air force in 1939, while the Red Army was the largest in Europe.
We're going to hear this year a lot of disparagement of the US contribution to victory. But there are some things we need to remember.
1) We fought on two fronts, Europe and the Pacific. Three, if you include our largely logistical support in CBI. And the operations of the Western Allies extended north to the Artic and south into the South Atlantic.
2) The distances involved in the ETO, particularly in North Africa, Sicily and Italy, meant operations were constrained by fighter range and the availability of troop transport.
3) Everything we fought with - every man, plane, bomb, boot, bullet, shell and ration - had to be transported enormous distances in ships we didn't have at the beginning of the war and in the teeth of fierce submarine attacks.
4) Had we not given Stalin Lend-Lease (about 18 million tons vs. 22 million sent to the ETO) the mobility, logistics and communication in the Soviet forces would have been severely hampered. Soviet offenses would have petered out faster.
5) Would the war have even started had Hitler not struck a deal with Stalin in 1939?
6) If Monty had cleared the approaches to Antwerp instead of undertaking the folly of Market Garden, the war might well have ended in the west in 1944.
"The key is to offer both a future of shining , almost post-human transcendence, and a present grounded in intense fear that you might be regarded as an impediment to that transcendence, requiring elimination."
We had to do away with democratic norms to save democracy, on account of Trump is an existential threat to la cosa nostra ("This thing of ours".)
Peachy said...
Divisive? Stalin was a fkkking brutal murderer.
ugh.
Almost every successful leader in human history was a brutal murderer.
The reason your read about them is they succeeded at murdering the people you don't read about and that history has forgotten.
We do live in an era of history not only being rewritten, but fictionalized in spectacular ways. Every day I read examples of it.
A man who oversaw the murder of at least 10 million people, who literally choreographed the Holomodor, was not just another example of 'everyone makes mistakes'. Such a perfect example of reality being unlearned.
"Would the war have even started had Hitler not struck a deal with Stalin in 1939?"
You mean the deal that extended Ukraine into Poland, where the Ukrainians, under their hero Bandera then began killing the Polish farmers and burning their farmhouses?
Hitler had deals with a lot of countries before the war.
"literally choreographed the Holomodor"
LOL, where is the documentary evidence that this happened. There is much evidence that the famine was widespread in the Soviet Union, and there was a lot of chaos as the communists took over agriculture, but this "Holomodor" as a specifically "choreographed" genocide is an artifact of Ukrainian propaganda, probably as projection to distract from Ukrainian participation in the Holocaust and alliance with Nazi Germany.
A Ukrainian Nazi got a standing ovation in Canada's parliament, that's how well re-writing the history has gone.
yes that was an ironic twist, but the Azovs are relatively small faction in the big scheme of things, about as relevant as the Patriot Front, favored by the Bureau,
Greg Hlatky said...
We're going to hear this year a lot of disparagement of the US contribution to victory. But there are some things we need to remember.
You won't hear me disparage our contribution. This was industrial warfare conducted on a global scale. The only nation able to effectively wage such a conflict was the United States.
Part of the reason for our huge industrial output is that we did not have to draft as many men as originally planned because the USSR paid the blood price.
Stalin told FDR at the Tehran conference, "It appears your strategy for winning this war is the copious use of British bases, American factories, and Russian men." He wasn't wrong.
I don't know if Hitler would have existed were it not for Stalin. Lenin and Stalin summarily killed their class enemies, and their definition of class enemy was pretty loose. Lots of people gravitated towards Hitler because he was the most outspoken enemy of Stalin. They did this not solely because of nationalistic or anti-semitic feelings but because they felt that people like Stalin wanted to kill them. Stalin was peak Stalin back in the thirties, but Hitler didn't reach his full potential for several years later on.
to the likes of Sheila Kirkpatrick and other figures, who formed the minds of Nellie Ohr, of Fusion GPS, there is no Holomodot
but that is decidedly a fringe opinion
Temujin said...
We do live in an era of history not only being rewritten, but fictionalized in spectacular ways. Every day I read examples of it.
A man who oversaw the murder of at least 10 million people, who literally choreographed the Holomodor, was not just another example of 'everyone makes mistakes'. Such a perfect example of reality being unlearned.
Then why are we whitewashing the Western Ukrainian participation in the Holocaust?
Human history is a repetition of tragedy.
The problem starts when you try to ignore the crimes of one group and justify everything they do. For some reason people are intent on painting the Western Ukrainian regime as a noble tribe with long standing democratic traditions.
They are just as bloody as everyone else and they have absolutely zero relationship with democracy.
True, Stalin through the Second International waged war on the Social Democrats, so only the Nazis or the Communists would have prevailed, Hitler or Stahlmann or some other functionary
we would see in East Germany a generation later,
It was Stalin's fault that all those troops were captured by the Nazis. He left a huge salient in exposed positions because he refused to make a strategic retreat. The Soviet POW's were treated horribly by the Nazis and then, after the war, they were sent to Gulags by Stalin to suffer further.....There were many hideous acts perpetrated by all the leaders of WWII, but Stalin has the sole distinction of committing war crimes against his own soldiers.
read Love and Fate by Grossman,
In WWI, the Czar lost less territory and men than Stalin did in the first few weeks of his war. Nonetheless, the Czar was overthrown and Stalin only gained in power during and after the war.....The Czar was a despot, but he wasn't very good at it. Stalin was a despot and, despite the tough competition of his era, was the best at it.......There is nothing to admire about Stalin, but he was very good at what he did......And history has given him a boost. Of all the madmen rulers of that era, Hitler, not Stalin, is perceived as the worst.
"One can recognize and condemn Stalin's brutality while acknowledging how many American lives he saved."
Yeah, or you can wonder why Roosevelt had such a hard-on for getting America into a war that was none of our business. I have read speculation that he thought getting into the war would improve his chances of a third term. I have a hard time believing anyone could be that cynical. But FDR, like Stalin, was a piece of work.
one would think the popular front delusions, had receded from his second term, there were still quite a few advisors in the mid ranks that were sympathetic to Stalin Hiss was just starting out in 39, Remington, on the China front, William Bullitt was a rare standout who challenged the reigning Paradyme
Stuart Service and Caughlin, if memory serves, on the Wastern Front,
"Lots of people gravitated towards Hitler because he was the most outspoken enemy of Stalin."
Hmmm... Have you been listening to the newest German chancellor lately? Do you think he has read any history books? Do you think that he has gleaned any ideas about how to take and keep power from those books?
narciso, I would be very interested in your summary, not links, but a summary in your own words, for the evidence that the Holodomor was a thing, and this explanation takes into account the droughts, the collectivization of agriculture by the Soviets, and the large number of deaths outside of Ukrainians. Are Ukrainians who spoke only Russian and thought of themselves as Russian included as "Ukrainians" in these death counts?
"If Comrade Stalin only knew what was being done in this gulag, he'd put a stop to it."
Communist followers have to be the stupidest sheep in all the history of stupid sheepdom.
Murdering People.
Stealing their Stuff.
Lying.
Are the only things in which Communists are truly world class, but the low-level dimwits are also pretty awesome at Toadying, so they've got that going for them.
The Soviet POW were sent to gulags because Stalin was afraid some of them would come back brainwashed by the nazis. There was no way to tell which ones. Stalin didn't want to take a chance, and to gulags they went. The ones who were spared from gulags, mostly women, were forbidden from joining a communist party, which trampled their chances of social ascension.
'If Putin Loves Stalin Then Trump Loves Stalin' - one of seventy potential headlines floating around the NYT.
as bad as mensheviks, social revolutionaries and vlasovites,
tcrosse: "I wonder if they ever show the film 'The Death of Stalin' in Russia?" I remember video of a cable network in Russia being raided by police to prevent 'DoS' from being shown.
The Russians launched a formal protest against the making and showing of "Death of Stalin," IIRC. It was mostly shot in Kyiv IIRC, which still has lots of Soviet-era buildings.
Two good books on the Soviet war effort are McMeekin's "Stalin's War" for high-level action, and Merridale's "Ivan's War" for the experience at lower levels.
Stalin remembered what happened when Russian officers went home from France and Germany after 1815, and didn't want returned PoWs telling everyone how much better the folks in the capitalist camp lived.
He also ensured that the many combat-cripples were kept out of the public eye. Two guesses how he managed that.
Prof. M. Drout said...
"If Comrade Stalin only knew what was being done in this gulag, he'd put a stop to it."
Communist followers have to be the stupidest sheep in all the history of stupid sheepdom.
Murdering People.
Stealing their Stuff.
Lying.
Are the only things in which Communists are truly world class, but the low-level dimwits are also pretty awesome at Toadying, so they've got that going for them.
Now do BLM.
"Then why are we whitewashing the Western Ukrainian participation in the Holocaust?"
Wait. What? The participation of Ukrainians in the events of the early 40's was not their idea. Do you blame grain for being ground between two stones?
"Hitler had no Navy, and had no desire to CONQUER THE WORLD." The first part of this sentence is obviously false: Hitler had enough U-boats to very nearly win the war against Britain. (They were also the reason the branch of the US military that had the highest mortality in World War II was the Merchant Marine.)
As for the second, if he had managed to force Britain to surrender and hand over its fleet, and if the US had stayed neutral a few years longer, he would have had some realistic hopes of conquering the world in a decade or two.
He obviously had enough u-boats... well actually he didn't. But nice derail. And of course the topic was the USA entrance into WW II and Hitler conquering the world, not the Atlantic naval war.
Its boring to discuss history with people who don't know the facts. You spend all your time instructing them. Let them read a book or shut up. Adios!
""read Love and Fate by Grossman,"
So you can't summarize the argument for me, then. Could it be because the argument doesn't completely fit together, so it is hard to remember it fully?
Showing that someone knows nothing about the subject he insists on writing about is not a "derail", it's something that should shame him into silence. "It[']s boring to discuss history with people who don't know the facts", writes the boring man who doesn't know the facts, and is utterly oblivious to irony.
The reason that England went balls to the wall after Germany in WWI was because Germany decided to build a navy, which made them a potential threat that delenda est!
It's the same reason that Western Europe is determined to destroy Russia, because they can't sleep at night knowing a power that one day might change and turn against them, exists.
Nobody in the US, the UK, or France, or Germany, gives a rat's ass about the Ukrainians, or they wouldn't have fomented a civil war there leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of them. It's all so the ultra wealthy oligarchs in the West can sleep soundly at night knowing that the last possible threat to their wealth has been extinguished.
Of course, if the Russian Federation can be rendered extinct, China will be easy pickings. If you think this is great, that's fine, please though, accept that the destruction of Russia is then fervently to be hoped for by the West, and that the West is incentivized to create chaos on Russia's borders, using countries like Ukraine, Georgia, Chechnya, Afghanistan, as pawns.
"As for the second, if he had managed to force Britain to surrender and hand over its fleet, and if the US had stayed neutral a few years longer, he would have had some realistic hopes of conquering the world in a decade or two."
Are you suggesting that FDR tricked America into WWII because he was worried about Hitler taking over the World in 1960? He certainly wasn't worried about Stalin taking over Eastern Europe in 1945, although that's what happened.
Hitler only thought he could win a naval war against the UK and the USA, and Churchill and FDR only imagined that he would try.
Because they weren't smart, like RCOCEANII.
"President Putin has repeatedly condemned Stalin over the years, and recognized that terrible crimes were committed under his rule.... [But i]n 2017, Mr. Putin told the filmmaker Oliver Stone that 'excessive demonization of Stalin has been one of the ways to attack the Soviet Union and Russia.'
Dear Putin fanboys: do read that again. "excessive demonization of Stalin" "attack the Soviet Union".
Yes, your hero is a KGB Col and a lover of both Stalin and the USSR. Don't tell us you're an American patriot if you're ever on Putin's side, because Putin's side is the USSR.
Stop being played for fools. He doesn't hate the Left, he FUNDED and formed it
"Are you suggesting . . .?" No, I suggested no such thing, and I deny your first premise, that "FDR tricked America into WWII". I wrote what I wrote, and it should be clear enough.
“They were also the reason the branch of the US military that had the highest mortality in World War II was the Merchant Marine.”
No not even close, US merchant mariners were at 4%. The Aaf was above 12%. And the submarine force was at 20% in fatalities.
An interesting fact is that the US provided 350,000 tons of electro refined aluminum slabs to Stalin by lend lease. This was 50% of the Russian supply. Without it the Russians could not have built half as many aircraft and very importantly, could not have made as many V2-34 aluminum engine blocks, crank case covers, and cylinder heads for the T-34 tanks that held off the SS Panzer armies. The engines had to be a copper aluminum alloy for light weight, proper cooling , and corrosion resistance.
In a Great War a seeming minor thing is necessary for victory but is not in itself sufficient to win. If they did not have it they would have lost.
Neither the Army Air Force nor the submarine force was a branch of the military: they were subbranches, of the Army and Navy, respectively. Even then, those lost in battle were ~9,000 of ~250,000 merchant mariners, ~52,000 of ~2,400,000 in the Army Air Force. Of course, my main point was that not only did Hitler have a navy (duh!) it was quite a deadly one.
The Marines in total had a death rate of 4.5% in ww2. Are they a branch? Is the Merchant Marine a branch of the US Millitary?
Let’s not define ourselves into a conclusion.
My simple point was that the German navy in World War II was large and deadly. I quoted the general opinion of large numbers of people on the web, that the Merchant Marine was (at least during the war) a branch of the US military, and did have the highest casualties. If you want to argue with that, knock yourself out. I don't care, because your quibbles do not affect my point.
Further deponent sayeth not.
Watched a movie not too long ago the plot of which unfolded in mocking illustration of Stalin's (putative?) declaration, 'there is no murder in Paradise'. It wasn't a specially good film but I watched to the end, which is not nothing.
Greg The Class Traitor said...
"President Putin has repeatedly condemned Stalin over the years, and recognized that terrible crimes were committed under his rule.... [But i]n 2017, Mr. Putin told the filmmaker Oliver Stone that 'excessive demonization of Stalin has been one of the ways to attack the Soviet Union and Russia.'
Dear Putin fanboys: do read that again. "excessive demonization of Stalin" "attack the Soviet Union".
Yes, your hero is a KGB Col and a lover of both Stalin and the USSR. Don't tell us you're an American patriot if you're ever on Putin's side, because Putin's side is the USSR.
Stop being played for fools. He doesn't hate the Left, he FUNDED and formed it
I am curious who you think has a positive opinion of Putin around here.
Also curious if you plan to go save the regime in Ukraine yourself or are you just saying stupid stuff.
WWII, the Holocaust and Hitler have been called the "foundational myth" of modern Western culture. Some people think that means it's untrue and has to be overthrown, but there's more truth than falsehood in it. It's the "foundational" part that's important. We'd be lost without having those fixed points to navigate our way.
It's true that for many people Stalin isn't as bad as Hitler. Is that a problem? They were both bad enough, and people with sense and intelligence aren't going to make heroes out of either one.
.
The army and navy had vast numbers of support personnel who never got near the front and whose lives were not in serious danger. I don't want to take away from the bravery and achievements of the merchant marine, but I don't think the merchant marine had as large a reserve of support personnel. Longshoremen, accountants, schedulers, ship builders, shipping executives and bureaucrats weren't officially members of the merchant marine, and that would affect the statistics.
Achilles said...
I am curious who you think has a positive opinion of Putin around here.
I've repeatedly read morons here praising Putin & defending Putin, neither of which would be done by an actual American who did not live with his head up his ass.
Also curious if you plan to go save the regime in Ukraine yourself or are you just saying stupid stuff.
Says Achilles, babbling his stupid stuff.
I want to send a bunch of my tax dollars to buy Ukraine teh weapons it needs to defeat the USSR, I mean the new Russian Empire. Because I'm an actual patriotic American, not a commie symp.
I don't think that any American troops should get closer to the war than going to our NATO ally Poland and training Ukrainians there.
Because I'm not an ass.
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