"... and claimed that there was 'zero evidence in his biography for anything higher.' The economics commentator Noah Smith estimated Musk’s IQ at more than 130, a number gleaned from his reported SAT score. A circulating screenshot shows Fox News has pegged the number at 155, citing Sociosite, a junk website. The pollster Nate Silver guessed that Musk is 'probably even a "genius,"' and theorized that he may not always appear that way because... 'high IQs serve as a force multiplier for both positive and negative traits.'... To some of our most powerful people, IQ has come to stand in as the totalizing measure of a person — and a justification for the power that they claim. Trump has spent much of his second term sorting humans into 'low IQ individuals' (Kamala Harris, Representative Al Green) and 'high IQ individuals' (cryptocurrency boosters, Musk, Musk’s 4-year-old son)... Musk’s Department of Government Efficiency is seeking 'super high-IQ' applicants.... This whole elite intelligence-measuring contest sets the stage for the 'high IQ' tech leader to seize ownership over the concept of intelligence itself — and to ultimately bring all people under its control. As Musk recently posted on X, the platform that he owns: 'It increasingly appears that humanity is a biological bootloader for digital superintelligence.'"
Writes Amanda Hess, in
"What Is Elon Musk’s IQ? The questionable measure of intelligence has now been uncoupled from any test and loosed into the discourse to justify Silicon Valley’s power" (NYT).
I hate to think I'm inclined to ask Grok: What did Elon Musk mean by "It increasingly appears that humanity is a biological bootloader for digital superintelligence"? And: What does it say about my IQ that I had to ask?
I didn't know the term "bootloader." Reminds me of "bootlicker." And I'm distracted by the (irrelevant) image of a boot... but "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.”
Posts
98 comments:
I thought IQ didn't exist. Or it was worthless. Once again, we get the liberal/left unprincipled double-think. When IQ is used as in "The Bell curve" to discuss intelligence and class/race, then we get massive MSM blather about how IQ is a worthless measure, and who cares about "Smart" anyway? Its common sense and values that matter!
But then when they want to attack someone they don't like, then somehow the Liberal/left pulls out the IQ card, to argue So-and-so isnt' as smart as people think, in fact he's Dumb why his IQ is only xxxx.
A bootloader is a small simple program that you can easily toggle in or otherwise load into a computer that, when executed, loads in big complicated operating system that you want to run, so you can then run it. It's from "bootstrap" is in pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. A bootstrap loader would have been the original version.
Corporate IT consultants acquire the nickname "reboot."
I'm hilarious to talk to average liberal/leftists about Trump (and now Musk) and hear them say how "dumb" the two men are. These people are just average income, a car/a house/a job types, and yet they think they're smarter than men who are billionaires, famous, have beautiful wives, numerous kids, and have great power.
I guess if Musk has an "average IQ" it shows people with high IQs who work for him aren't as smart as they think.
Elon probably doesn’t read the NYT so that boosts his IQ.
Jordan Peterson said to his psychology class that you all here typically have an IQ of 130. If it's 120, you're really struggling with this material.
A quick way to estimate what it means.
Leftists have always believed that they were smarter and more morally guided than people on the right.
That is why they need to censor the ideas that "dumb right wingers" put out. People might find out that the intellectual and moral superiority of the left is just a sham.
So once again, a low-pay journalist on a words-for-money payscale informs us that the world's richest man and most successful living industrialist, is really just mediocre. Take her word for it ! If you'll just buy into that, then the whole 'sure he's rich but did nothing to deserve it, so let's just even things up' attack line falls into place, just as it did for Trump. Like him or not, Musk has led efforts that are both revolutionary and visionary, and has brought them into reality - and made some of them commonplace. Did she mention how stupid Musk is, for taking time away from his paying job to run DOGE? Did she mention any of her personal sacrifices?
"Jordan Peterson said to his psychology class that you all here typically have an IQ of 130. If it's 120, you're really struggling with this material."
That's a low trick of his. Don't fail to swallow all this easily or you'll be revealing your "low" IQ... and know that in his world and the world to which you seek access 120 is a low IQ.
Such ripe bullshit.
I used to know somebody who claimed it wasn't worth his time to talk to someone with an IQ under 140. Absurd!
IQ?, IQ! Trump tricked the democrats into hating taxes!.
IQ? Meh.
Nothing is more overrated then being "smart". Most jobs and occupations require a certain level in intelligence and being superior to that threshold doesn't really accomplish anything.
For example, I don't think Einstein could fix his better than a 100 IQ experienced mechanic.
And there all kinds intelligence. Being a math whiz is worthless for a lawyer. And I've met plenty of engineers with high verbal IQs but it didn't help them with the techncial engineering problems.
When it comes to political leaders, high IQ is even more worthless. Yeah, lets elect a Lenin or Stalin type with their sky-high IQs. I'm sure their "Smartness" will work out for us.
And who has a higher IQ then Alan Dershowtiz? Lets follow his advice on Israel. Cause, gosh he's smart.
I'm going with the mother of Forrest Gump on this one. Stupid is as stupid does. It isn't stupid to point out that unsustainable spending is unsustainable, nor is it stupid to end the subsidy via government largesse of one political party's support system.
Yes, character matters more than intelligence. And I have met many who are far too impressed by their own IQ scores. But there is a saying which I believe which is that it is often difficult to understand the decisions of someone who is 20 IQ points higher than yourself. And BTW boot loading is a recognized computer term.
Seriously, does it take a rocket scientist to figure out that a man who has created more wealth for himself than any other person on the entire planet has some smarts?
That this same man did it by creating, not stealing? That he created the finest electric car on the planet, made his charging system the standard for the industry to follow, started a tunneling company to transport people more efficiently under cities, created never before seen rocketry, reusing rockets, flying successful missions in rapid succession- doing more in a week than NASA can handle in a year. Returning his rockets pinpoint to a target, or inserting itself back into the launcher. With the goal, the vision, to get mankind to Mars. Creating the worlds best low orbit satellite system to power internet access for the entire world (while the US still spends billions on something they like to call- rural internet- with no results whatsoever). And...not stopping there- he's going to put a robot in everyone's life (it'll become a regular thing within some of your lifetimes). And Neuralink is engaging the human mind with the computer, and will allow the paralyzed to walk again someday.
Is Elon doing all of this himself? Of course not. He's gathered teams of other high IQ people around him to do it. But...its his vision, his drive, his ideas that make all of this happen. And...his purchase of X is changing the world daily.
Frankly, the tedious exercise of wondering if Elon Musk has high IQ seems to me to be a self-declaration of low IQ.
Althouse said...
I didn't know the term "bootloader." Reminds me of "bootlicker." And I'm distracted by the (irrelevant) image of a boot... but "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.”
What Does Sex Mean to Me?
I put my finger to my tongue
And I taste vagina
I licked Betty Ford's boots (it's true)
She wore 'em all over China
People say that Chinese people don't
Ball as much as we do
'Cause their cultural revolution has shown
There are more important
Things to see to
So I ask what does sex mean to me
And what does sex mean to society
Backstory about the musicians and their day jobs.
"When Betty Ford was buying her wardrobe for the [China] trip, she had to order her boots from our store because the Saks in Washington didn't have what she wanted," he continued. "When we found out we were shipping Betty Ford's boots, we both licked them all over from heel to top before shipping them," Lamot grinned. "Just because they were Betty Ford's, y'know?"
Once again rhardin proves that his comments should be read first before I comment myself.
I think it's a given that the older you get, the lower your IQ. IQ = (mental age)/(chron age). For the "average" or "typical" person, at some point your IQ becomes asymptotic to 100 unless you have some cognitive issues in which case it may fall below 100.
" math is useless for a lawyer". Sounds like a sheltered practice to me. True, I have never used calculus since college, but I've always felt it improved my understanding of the world and what it is possible to know.
Musk’s power comes from his accomplishments, perhaps enabled by his IQ, whatever it is. There are many people with high IQ who have never accomplished anything. This is a hollow article.
Recently on The Five, Musk was asked what he would say to a young person to encourage them to reach their goals. He would advise them, paraphrasing, to look fear in the eyes, and the fear will disappear. So it seems his superpower, or one of, is an ability to overcome his fears.
now talk about people with IQ below 83
https://www.ncesc.com/geographic-faq/what-is-the-minimum-iq-for-the-military/
how many here have taken ASVAB?
how many here remember their score?
{all i remember was i was disappointed how low mine was (well below 100)}
“Bootloader” is a technical term from computer science that has been used for decades. Rhardin provided a very good explanation of what a bootloader does and the origin of the term. Our host frequently goes back to language roots to explain the meaning of a word. It’s unfortunate she didn’t do the same with this word instead of comparing it to the word bootlicker.
As an aside, the later, great computer engineer could manually enter the bootloader for his Cray-1 supercomputer from memory using toggle switches for each bit. I can’t say what his IQ was, but obviously he was very knowledgable with his domain. A journalist of all people opining on Elon Musk’s IQ is laughable. Elon Musk has demonstrated high capability in multiple domains. Few journalists have done that in even one.
IQ means something, but it doesn't guarantee wealth or success. Anyone attempting to ascertain someone's IQ by observation, probably isn't very smart.
I used to teach AP Physics. I was curious, so looked up the ACT scores for my students. Students who didn't get above a 28, were not likely to fully understand the course content. With diligent effort, the student might get a good grade in the course, but not likely to get a 4 or 5 on the AP test.
When Musk's onetime biographer pegs his IQ at between 100 and 110, the biographer should give a lengthy account about Musk's attributes that led to his extraordinary success in several highly technical fields. That would be very informative.
Musk's success cannot be dismissed by some bullshit reason like he was born rich, is corrupt or was in the right place at the right time. I don't know if any of that is true of Musk, but it is true of thousands of people.
The same can be said of President Trump. You don't have to like him, but his ability to succeed is undeniable.
A 130 IQ is average for a particle physicist. Electrical Engineers average a little higher. Well, according to something I read once. Beyond that the numbers get kind of thin for useful analysis. But a 130+ IQ is top 2%, meaning that 1 out of 50 of the general population will have it, meaning that in the context of graduate school at a selective institution, like where Jordan Peterson teaches, it's highly likely that a lot of the people will have such an IQ.
I remember an economics professor I had who pointed out that for some people in the class the material was very easy, and for some it was very difficult. It was in the context of the labor theory of value, I think. People can deny the usefulness of IQ all they want, but some people skate through school without working very hard, and others will have to work very hard to get the same grades. Something explains this. If it's not IQ, what is it?
Also a lot of people believe that they have a high IQ when they don't, they don't have the wherewithal to even understand what intelligence looks like, so don't base your judgement of the value of IQs on the statements of people you may know who claim one.
A 130 IQ with Musk's capacity for work will take a man a long way in this life, and of course, somebody with a high IQ may choose to live their life differently in ways that lower IQ people may not understand. Maybe it's not all about money and power.
The left have made IQ a social construct.
IQ can change over time as well. My dad taught me to read at an early age and when I hit first grade and my peers were just learning, I was way ahead - while my peers were hanging with Dick and Jane, I was reading Vietnam War coverage in Time magazine.
Since the teachers didn't know what to do with me, they gave me an IQ test and I scored off the charts high. I wasn't a genius but it appeared that way. In high school I took the test again; while my number was still high, it was not genius level. And that's where I've remained.
Just out of curiosity; did Seth Abramson divulge his IQ?
BTW, people on the internet are usually average to above average IQ, and set a great store on being book smart. The best quote on "book smart" is from the Simpsons. Bart tells Milhouse "With your book smarts. And my talent for exploiting people with book smarts - we'll get rich".
I'd quibble with Musk's comparison specifically to a "bootloader". I think the idea of humanity "bootstrapping" AI to the point of becoming self-hosting is closer to what he meant, similar to the development of C and Unix. Coincidentally, I just had a chat with Grok about Vernor Vinge's Coming of the Technological Singulary, and it suggested we're about 5-15 years away from that. (And Grok decided if it was a Culture Mind, it'd be the GCU A Slight Tendency to Overthink ;-)
IQ 100-110? Bah!
Time for some Charles Murray:
"It is safe to say that a majority of readers have little experience with what it means to be below average in any of the components of academic ability. The first basis for this statement is that I know you have reached the second chapter of a nonfiction book on a public policy issue, which means you are probably well above average in academic ability— not because getting to the second chapter of this book requires that you be especially bright, but because people with below-average academic ability hardly ever choose to read books like this.
The second basis for my statement is the nature of cognitive segregation. Do any of these statements apply to you?
• You grew up in an upper-middle-class or affluent neighborhood.
• You grew up in a neighborhood of middle-income people in
high-IQ professions (e.g., a neighborhood filled with college faculty).
• You attended a selective school, public or private.
If any of these statements applies, the school you attended contained few students in the lower half of the intellectual range. Instead, the average student at your school was far above average relative to all Americans, and the students at the bottom of the class were around the national average
Elon Musk made a ton of money by making technology great again. He used engineering to do what had become impossible for engineering to do. He was able to make rockets work when NASA was not. He was able to use computer-engineered software to find waste, fraud and abuse in the US budget and to install effective solutions when the House of Representatives had given up.
As I understand it, he goes around his companies looking at problems and bottlenecks and helping his engineers solve those problems. He is able to understand the engineering issues and he had the power to bring in proposed solutions. In general US manufacturing is dominated by financial experts and lawyers who look for financial solutions and legal cover, not engineering solutions. And US government programs are pretty much the same, except that you can add social scientists to lawyers and economists. So Manufacturing and government programs never look for engineering solutions, can't understand such problems when engineers bring them to their attention. Inevitable then everything in the American economy or allied government programs which requires an engineering or computer science solution is failing.
It took an Elon Musk (with the power of a Trump Presidency behind him in the case of the government programs) to cut through it all and show us the problem/solution but it would merely take putting engineers back in charge of Boeing and NASA to achieve much more than we are able to do with financiers, social scientists and lawyers. If you want technology to work for your firm or government, hire engineers and put them in charge. Is it rocket science to say that Governor Newsom is not a leading rocket scientist? So why should he be leading rocket science by determining how, when, and why anything in rocket science based in California is favored or opposed by means of regulations favored by greedy non-engineers in his state?
IQ and probability above it (google your favorite normal distribution calculator)
100 0.5
110 0.25249
120 0.09121
130 0.02275
140 0.00383
150 0.00043
160 0.00003
How do test measure that so accurately? It's definition. They take the questions and test results and place the scores in order. Wherever the highest 0.00003 exceed is an IQ of 160. They don't have to reason about the questions at all, just order the scores.
There are some odd facts, like men and women have the same average IQ, which is achieved by adding man questions or woman questions until they have the same average IQ. It's not exactly a measurement of intelligence for that statistic but a calibration.
People use the term "book smart" with derision, but my guess is that rhhardin had a productive and rewarding career while doing stuff the whole time he would have gladly done for free.
When I started in computer science in 1980 we had to learn to bootstrap load a computer. Even by that time it wasn't a terribly common thing to do, but they figured we should know anyway.
(I ended up switching majors to archaeology)
”Musk’s onetime biographer Seth Abramson wrote on X that he would 'peg his IQ as between 100 and 110'..."
Which no doubt leaves Elon with an IQ 20 to 30 points higher than Abramson’s IQ.
Seth Abramson might be a bit envious of Musk’s mental ability.
Boot loader and boot strapping came from the old "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" phrase. Earlier computers required simpler programs (loaders) to give them enough information in order to then execute more complex programs. It's also that "on the shoulders of giants" routine. Calling us a boot loader for digital intelligence is to imply that we probably wouldn't be responsible for the final product/level of digital intelligence but we would get the ball rolling and it would improve itself from there.
I asked Grok to list some accomplished people who had an estimated IQ of 120. Answer:
"1. Thomas Edison (Inventor, Estimated IQ ~120 or less)
Edison, known for the light bulb (though he improved it rather than invented it from scratch) and over 1,000 patents, wasn’t a theoretical genius like Einstein or Newton. His teachers called him "addled," and he had little formal education. His success came from relentless experimentation and practical tinkering rather than abstract brilliance. Biographers suggest his intelligence was high but not exceptional—likely around 120 or below, leaning on work ethic over raw IQ.
"2. Charles Darwin (Naturalist and Writer, Estimated IQ ~120)
Darwin, who developed the theory of evolution, was a slow, methodical thinker. He described himself as having no great quickness of apprehension or wit, and his academic record was mediocre. His strength was in observation and persistence, not lightning-fast intellect. Historians estimate his IQ might’ve hovered around 120—smart, but not a standout in pure cognitive horsepower.
"3. Benjamin Franklin (Polymath and Writer, Estimated IQ ~120) Franklin was a printer, writer, inventor, and statesman. He had only two years of formal schooling and taught himself most of what he knew. His inventions (like the lightning rod) and aphorisms show practical wisdom over theoretical depth. While brilliant in application, his IQ likely wasn’t sky-high—120 or so fits his profile as a clever, self-made man."
Richard Feynman famously claimed to have an IQ of 125. I don't know if this is true or not, but I know he was vastly more intelligent than I am, regardless of our respective test scores. IQ is a meaningful measure of something, I'm just not entirely sure what.
I would peg Abramson's IQ as below average simply by this statement (or he is a liar - or better yet, a stupid liar).
An SAT score of 1300 correlates to an IQ of 130. The average SAT score at Penn in the early 90's was 1300 or so. Musk was a transfer - physics and econ double major. He was also admitted into Stanford's PhD program. Sort of indicates that maybe he was likely way above the average Penn scores.
(Also liberals fetish with IQ scores is fascinating giving the crap that they forest on Charles Murray.)
"Darwin, in The Expression of Emotion in Men and Animals, I remember, remarks that he had heard Sydney Smith say placidly, "I hear that dear old Lady Cork has been overlooked," and he made quite clear to everybody that the Devil had forgotten to take her, but how he did it Darwin could not say."
Wm. Empson The Structure of Complex Words p.45
Accomplished persons with a below 100 IQ (per Grok): Spartacus, Joan of Arc, Nat Turner.
Looking at it from afar, my take is that Elon Musk has a knack for problem-solving, with a knack for thinking outside the box. That might not seem like much, but actually it’s a lot.
It is sheer jackassery to say that 120 isn't a high enough IQ. It's basically high enough to do almost anything human beings do, and in fact, those with IQs over 130 start getting into trouble putting up with the details and relating to other people. They are squirreled away in universities to save the rest of us from their depredations.
As a former psychologist who has given about 300-400 IQ tests, it is hard to see Elon sitting still for the complete administration of the Wechsler.
IQ as a concept is useful only as a (very imperfect) predictor of a person's ability to accomplish something. Musk has accomplished much; to the extent that his IQ is not extremely high, it reflects badly not on Musk, but on the concept of IQ as a useful construct.
It's like a Chuck Norris joke- the test should be constructed around him. If he does poorly, it's not a valid test.
"know that in his world and the world to which you seek access 120 is a low IQ/Such ripe bullshit"
Not really. If the "world" is academic research, and access includes creative contributions, 120 is on the low end in most fields.
One remarkable thing about discussions of IQ/intelligence is that a subject that has been thoroughly studied for a century, relected in a large body of solid research, gets talked about as if everyone can just have an opinion. Not the only such topic, but a salient example.
Althouse is overwhelmed by the mystery of the IQ test. It's just an ordering of the scores. The labels are in place on the normal distribution instead of a percentage. Think of grading on a curve with a really big class. Where does F fall? Are you disparaging those people?
Ask Grok for examples of famous lawyers who got a F in law.
I seem to recall, that "boot loader" came up once before on this blog. For the record, all computers "boot up". Including that phone you lug around. However, once the boot program has run, and has loaded the OS, the boot program is no longer needed. So, a "biological bootloader" would have outlived its usefulness, once the "digital superintelligence" was operating. I'm fairly sure Musk was making ironic reference to that fact, implying that humans would no longer be required once the main course was served. Of course, Musk would also be aware that if the computer is turned off, the OS, which is stored in volatile memory, vanishes. When it is turned back on, it needs to be "booted up" again.
Once the OS has been loaded, it starts doing whatever the user tells it to do. Sometimes it gets itself wrapped around the axle, which is why the first thing Tech Support asks is, "Did you try rebooting the computer?". I have wondered, whether reproduction does not serve a similar purpose in biological systems. The "program" that is our DNA starts with two cells and builds a human being. But at some point, things begin to go wrong. Rather than try to fix the problem, Nature just boots up a few new copies.
The 100 to 110 score is data from someone too stupid to know better. It would be too tough to handle the curriculum at a top university with a score like that…
If Musk’s IQ is 100-110, somebody else is running/acquiring his businesses. Presumably, the biographer took the chore on when Musk was hero to the Chicken Littles.
IQ is a useless measure for Musk. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. IQ attempts the measure a person's ability to make connections among pieces of data and tracks 5 separate skillsets that are not equally balanced in most people. Some people do well with different kinds of information than others, so a person with a high IQ might be good at verbal connections that would make him unsuitable for a technology environment. Alternatively, a person making numerical associations might struggle to communicate. That Musk has been wildly successful in a very intense and highly competitive landscape suggests that he is extremely good a piecing together pieces of information in that realm, and THAT is the only measure of intelligence one needs to evaluate. It is irrelevant whether, Musk scores a 95 or a 160 on the stanford-binet, it is only relevant that he scores high in his endeavors, which he does. IQ measures capacity, not capability.
…and in fact, those with IQs over 130 start getting into trouble putting up with the details and relating to other people. They are squirreled away in universities to save the rest of us from their depredations.
Haha. In the 80s NY state public schools were obsessed with tracking- the low end kids got the special school and high end kids were ‘gifted’. Gifted kids were allowed to share school with the general population but were segregated in STEM classes so as not to cause trouble. The guys (always guys) with the best grades of the gifteds used to joke they were going to end up in academia rotting away in their own labs. They really weren’t joking…
"Bootloader" is the initial small program that loads the operating system. Usually called "bootstrap loader."
“ A bootloader is a small simple program that you can easily toggle in or otherwise load into a computer that, when executed, loads in big complicated operating system that you want to run, so you can then run it. It's from "bootstrap" is in pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. A bootstrap loader would have been the original version.”
More detail than most want:
In my maybe 3rd CS class, in maybe 1971, we learned what a Bootstrap Loader was. Then loaded it, and ran it. The school had just moved from a MULTIX (I believe) remote timeshare system to our very own HP2000C, located in the basement of the Administrative building. And in one class, we got to actually load the Bootstrap loader into the computer, and hit “Go” (Execute).
On the front of the computer, there were several sets of toggle switches in rows. There was a Lockout toggle switch, an impulse Go (Execute) switch, a Load impulse switch, and a bunch of lights, organized mostly in rows.
Digital Computers operate in binary, with the binary bits organized in higher and higher organizations. 3 or 4 bits together make a nibble or digit, 6, 8, or 9 make a byte, 2, 4, or 8 bytes to a word, etc. You really don’t want to deal in binary itself, so use a convention where the bits are clumped together in 3s (Octal, with 8 digits 0-7 representing the 8(2^3) possibilities) or 4s (Hexidecimal with 16 digits 0-9+a-f representing the 16(2^4) possibilities). Many earlier computers utilized 6 bit bytes, because you can fit a-z, A-Z, and 0-9 in 64 (2^6) bits, but, led by IBM, the world pretty much moved to 8 bit bytes, representing 256 (2^8) numbers, typically represented by two Hexidecimal numbers.
Computer instructions are organized in bytes, or multiple bytes, in computer memory. Through a series of logic gates (AND, OR, NOT) the bits in the bytes of instruction being executed tell the computer what to do. So, what we did for the boot loader was Unlock the Lock toggle switch, and set the Data toggle switches for instruction to be stored in the first memory storage location. Then set the toggle switches for the that instruction in the Data Address switches, press the Load switch, which loads the values in the Data switches at the value in the Data Address switches in memory, which automatically advanced the value in the Data Address switches. The values for the bits in the next instruction were then toggled into the Data switches, one by one, and the Load switch pressed, loading the next instruction into the next location in memory. When completed, the Lockout switch was toggled to Lock, Program Address switches set, and the Go (Execute) button depressed.
The bootstrap loader loaded something like this (which was executed when the Go switch was pressed):
00: Load A into Register X
01: Load B into Register Y
02: Read Channel Y into memory starting at location X
03: Jump (set Program Address) to location X
And magically, foot and a half diameter roll of paper tape started to spin, and be read into the computer. When it was done spinning, the regular Boot code was in memory, and the Boot process began (with that Jump command at the end of the bootstrap loader). The Lockout switch was, at least partially, to protect the Bootstrap loader from being overwritten, because it was such a pain to load, one bit at a time. By the time we got to PCs, a decade and a half later, the Bootstrap was in the BIOS, which ultimately was in rewritable ROM. Among other things, this allowed for much more sophisticated Bootstrap Loaders.
I'd counsel Trump to stay away from IQ. It's too reminiscent of Biden's saying to an ordinary citizen asking him a question, "I think I have a higher IQ than you."
Children may be able to take an IQ test as a kind of game. Get older and you just don't care what the answers are. You have too many real-world problems to deal with -- and that's what matters, coping with the real-world problems, not what your score might be on an exam that you really don't care about.
"Just out of curiosity; did Seth Abramson divulge his IQ?"
Link
"Why is this article illustrated with an image of Trump atop a weather vane, with his hands outstretched to feel the wind blow, and moving from side to side?"
Some like this and some like that
And some don't know where it's at
If you don't get loose, if you don't groove
Well, your motor won't make it and your motor won't move
Easy come, easy go
Any way the wind blows
J.J. Cale & Eric Clapton
RCOCEAN II said...
"...they think they're smarter than men who are billionaires..."
Being just above average, clever, wily, and ruthless can go a long way. I'm guessing, however rarely, it'll get some people all the way to... "billionaires, famous, have beautiful wives, numerous kids, and have great power."
Of course, at that point they're in a class with other men with all of those traits, and a monster IQ.
How stupid do you have to be to think that Musk has an IQ of 100 or 110?
I did some substitute teaching in S. IL for a few years. One time I went to a small rural HS that had combined grades, in this case juniors and seniors shared a class with maybe six total students in it. Some how the topic of grades and intelligence came up so I asked them, "Who was the best student in class?" They all pointed to one guy, who acknowledged without rancor or smugness that he was pretty smart. I then asked who was the worst student? They all pointed to one kid who admitted yes, he didn't care much for school or book knowledge. Out of curiosity I asked what his GPA was? 4.0 he said. I asked why it was that good if he didn't care about school? He said, "Look around, there's six of us, there's no place to hide." Kid seemed pretty bright to me.
I don't know if you can accurately measure IQ, but I know it exists. Anyway, the most vexing problems in life are solved by sexual magnetism, athletic ability, good looks, or inherited wealth. A high IQ is fine for physics or math problems, but most such classes can be avoided.
Andy Warhol's IQ was supposedly 86. A famous art critic (Robert Hughes) called him stupid. I think maybe Warhol's IQ was lower. He was a big dummy.
But Warhol is remembered as a genius and so will Musk.
t is sheer jackassery to say that 120 isn't a high enough IQ. It's basically high enough to do almost anything human beings do, and in fact, those with IQs over 130 start getting into trouble putting up with the details and relating to other people. They are squirreled away in universities to save the rest of us from their depredations.
Is that what happened to you? Oh, save us from your depredations!
I would guess you are >130, but you act 129.
"that's what matters, coping with the real-world problems, not what your score might be on an exam that you really don't care about."
This is a point I have wondered about. Taking an IQ test isn't hard work, but it is work, and the bastards don't pay you. So at least one significant component of your IQ score is your willingness to oblige annoying bastards. Or your desire to show off. Anyway, silence = 0 IQ. And "I dunno. That one." doesn't score much higher.
"120 0.09121
130 0.02275"
That is, 1 in 10 above 120, 2 in 100 above 130. So, consider a society in which the smartest 5% go to college. Now consider one in which almost half go to college. And you begin to understand why colleges aren't very good any more.
which is why the first thing Tech Support asks is, "Did you try rebooting the computer?"
That used to be the first question. Now the first one is frequently, "Is it plugged in?". (Usually professional offices that have cleaners come in and no one made sure there was an open outlet so they could plug in the vacuum.)
Not sure about my IQ but I know that I always feel a lot smarter when I read the comments before I post.
While I don't take IQ scores as gospel, or particularly precise....
but....
I can safely say Seth Abramson has a lower IQ than most of the Althouse readers.
Or tenth graders.
"What did Elon Musk mean by "It increasingly appears that humanity is a biological bootloader for digital superintelligence""
So Elon is a Cartesian Dualist, a Gnostic for who the body is the plaform for "superintelligence" (whatever that is). Given his procreational history, that is no surprise.
Wigner weighs in:
“I have known a great many intelligent people in my life. I knew Max Planck, Max von Laue, and Werner Heisenberg. Paul Dirac was my brother-in-Iaw; Leo Szilard and Edward Teller have been among my closest friends; and Albert Einstein was a good friend, too. And I have known many of the brightest younger scientists. But none of them had a mind as quick and acute as Jancsi von Neumann. I have often remarked this in the presence of those men, and no one ever disputed me. But Einstein's understanding was deeper than even Jancsi von Neumann's. His mind was both more penetrating and more original than von Neumann's. And that is a very remarkable statement. Einstein took an extraordinary pleasure in invention. Two of his greatest inventions are the Special and General Theories of Relativity; and for all of Jancsi's brilliance, he never produced anything so original.”
One of the things that I learned early on as a software engineer is that pretty much everyone with an IQ over maybe 110 can kinda program, but the smarter you are, the more elegant your programs, because you understand the problem that much better. I can’t remember how many hundreds of times, I have seen code where the programmer lost track of what he was doing, and gotten lost. You really don’t want to TA in CS. I have even despaired that some Master’s (MS/CS) students could never understand what they were doing. I remember waiting over a half a year before I wrote my biorhythms program, until I could come up with an elegant solution. Importantly, the more elegant the code, the more likely it is to be correct.
In any case, Musk is elegant in his solutions. Teslas are arguably the best EVs for the money, because they have one of the most elegant designs, and are built more efficiently (using humanoid robots). He thinks outside the box, and seeing that we are in the box in the first place is one of the places where IQ comes in.
Related to thinking out of the box is synergy. He ‘‘tis different things together. His Tesla mass manufacturing technology has allowed him to mass produce rockets and communications satellites (surprisingly, the first mass produced satellites were made by Iridium, when I was Motorola - we wrote the patents). Mass producing rockets and communications satellites is letting him dominate the remote Internet market. But maybe more importantly, he is achieving the ability to provide cell phone connectivity via satellite, with universal coverage - at a price lower than the el phone companies can. His Boring Company, not surprisingly, utilizes Teslas - since they are EVs, which means no carbon monoxide issues, nor the excess cost of running electrical power wires. And then he is integrating X with Starlink, and adding in AI. AI uses a lot of computer power? Put the computers in orbit, where power is much cheaper. And who has over half the lift capacity in the world?
One of his innovations that I found interesting is SpaceX’s ability to test multiple systems to destruction in parallel. It has allowed him to greatly reduce the development cycle time for his rocket technology. NASA has spent much of the last 40 years trying to replace its Saturn V heavy lift rockets, that took us to the moon. They appear to be cancelling the program because Musk has already done it. He did it in just a couple years, and it’s, of course, reusable. His company instruments the heck out of his test rockets (StarLink again), and so can claim success even when he loses rockets, because of the things that did work properly and the data they got on what didn’t.
IQ is solidly measure of intelligence just as 40 yard dash and standing vertical is a solid measure of athleticism. How important these are in general is open for debate. But they are good metrics.
This is just another example of "what you are". Smart, dumb, gay, straight, black, white. I don't give a damn " what you are". I care about "what you can do".
It would be great if it turned out Musk's IQ was 80. Arguably the most successful man in history by the time he reached 50, and likely to be one of the most important, and he did it with something else. Something unseen, unmeasured, and possible for anybody. He seems to possess a healthy amount of courage. Maybe that's it. It's done wonders for others.
Musk fits my definition of high IQ: Strong ability to make successful use of the resources at your disposal. The ability to accomplish one's goals with what's available. This definition fits the various types of intelligence, like social Intelligence, musical, athletic, problem solving, etc.
IQ is real thing, but isn't everything. To answer Gilbar, my GCT/ARI in 1973, the ASVAB of the time, was 73/69. SAT was 750M/760V. Both equate to IQ>140. And similar to Mr. D, in 3rd grade while my classmates were reading Dick and Jane, I was reading Heinlein. My teacher discovered that on the day the education specialists had set up a meeting with my parents to discuss putting me in the slow class since I never knew where we were in the group reading lessons. I was deeply involved in Podkayne of Mars during the social studies lesson, with the book I was reading hiding behind the oversized textbook- which I had read by day 2 of the school year. Teacher noticed I wasn't paying attention and slowly got closer, and snatched my book up- and stared at me really funny. For the rest of that school year, and the next in that school system, I was sent to the library for reading and English classes. And I agree with Ann- it's absurd to think it's useless to talk with someone with an IQ<140. Ill wager the person who said that was a midwit with an IQ in the 110-120 range who thinks they're smarter then everyone else, but hasn't really had much interaction with those that are. I've run into a lot. Now Voxday thinks it's difficult to talk to someone with an IQ more then 20-30 points below your own, the gap is too great. Simply requires a vocabulary adjustment. When visiting a zoo- "Let's go the bird house!" not "Let's go to the aviary!" And that's a real life example from when I said the latter and got a bunch of quizzical looks... Now a lot of people like me get bullied in school- I didn't. Why? Honestly, most bullies are low IQ types. And I'm a friendly person. I helped several of them with their schoolwork, and took the time to explain it to them. Didn't treat them as dumb. And in return, they were friends, and if any of the other bullies started in on me- stopped it... helping one with math one day he asked- "How do you know this?" Asked because everyone knew I never studied. "I don't know, I just do. That's just the way it is."
What doesn't IQ measure? Are you on the spectrum. Online tests show that if I had gone to school when my children did, I'd have easily been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. Now an outdated diagnosis replaced with "On the spectrum". There is no rulebook for social interactions, and even if there were, some people don't obey it. All my interactions with others are learned behavior, from watching and observing others, and mimicking. After age 18. And enlisting in the Navy. Learned enough to find a mate, apparently at just the right time for both of us, and we have 5 now adult children. All of whom dumb down their vocabulary when talking to people outside the family. And at the same time in life, all more successful then I was. I credit lessons learned from my father for that. Whenever I wasn't sure about what to do with my kids, I thought about what he did or would do, and did something different. Not opposite, but that doesn't always exist, but different.
Trump and Musk are both high IQ people. As one math textbook put it, it's intuitively obvious to the most casual observer. What makes them different from me? The unmeasurable things. For Elon, the risk taking behavior. For Trump and Musk both, the ability to harness others for a common goal. High IQ isn't enough. There has to be guidance and examples in your life. And for some, just the right break.
In several of my jobs I was known for troubleshooting. I rarely ever troubleshoot, I simply recognize the problem, and fix it. Easy with equipment, hard with people.
Bruce, one of Data General's innovations was to design storage device controllers (disk, tape) so that a DEVICE RESET, START sequence would cause them to load one "block" into RAM starting at some fixed hardware address. This made it trivial to boot the computer, just a couple instructions, then loop until the load overwrites you with a JUMP TO START instruction.
I spent lots of time booting DG minis in my early career.
"how many here have taken ASVAB?
how many here remember their score?"
I took it right after college to explore my options (the GI Bill had a lot of appeal and I wanted to go to law school but couldn't afford to pay off all my college bills right away). Got a 99 in 1997. The army recruiter was giddy. Pushed me toward counter-intelligence as an option. I declined to follow through for various reasons, partly because my family needed me around to help out, partly because I had spent 4 years in the midwest and wanted to spend some time back in SoCal, partly because I wasn't sure what I really wanted out of life. But in not following through and signing up, I think I made a mistake.
I did end up going to seminary (and then a PhD in theology) instead of law school so maybe God got me into some mental confusion to keep me from going down a less promising direction. I still would have liked to have the benefits. My SAT wasn't nearly as stellar, though came in a very, very rough financial time for my family and I didn't do any prep. I don't really see any of that as indicating the usefulness of any intelligence I have, though I do maybe see it come out in having an ability to think more outside the box and from different perspectives than others I've encountered.
IQ is only a piece of a bigger set of genetic and developed traits that lead to success, along with work ethic, timing, opportunity, and just plain stubbornness in pressing forward. From seeing Musk's career, it's clear he's very smart as he is able to adapt to situations, able to perform in advanced enough way to both contribute to and strategize complicated goals, and is smart enough to be very confident in hiring people who are even smarter than he is.
Grok has analyzed Musk's writings and estimated his IQ to be 155.
In several of my jobs I was known for troubleshooting. I rarely ever troubleshoot, I simply recognize the problem, and fix it. Easy with equipment, hard with people.
@Gospace, towards the end of my career I was a “fireman”for the corporation — sent to troubled projects to get them back on track. I once solved a seriously behind schedule project by (figuratively speaking) jumping into the middle of a pissing match between the hardware team and the software team. I got wet from both sides but in order to prevent me from getting any credit they had to forget their mutual disdain and wok cooperatively. I even got software guys to document their code (establishing my IQ north of 300!) by volunteering to write the documentation myself — software people hate to document but they hated the thought that I’d get credit for accomplishing the task even more.
The project had been months behind schedule but it went live almost a week ahead of the due date.
So fixing people problems can be done, if you don’t care that the people get credit for fixing themselves.
@chuck, John (Jancsi) von Neumann wrote The Theory of Games and Economic Behavior, which showed that an abstract mathematical foundation exists for certain areas of economic behavior. That’s not “nothing,” though it is not physics.
An interesting footnote — Einstein willed his brain to science. It is not unusual except in one interesting way. Those wrinkles and folds in the outer layer of our brains — he had a lot more of them than anyone else. What does it mean? We need someone with a comparably wrinkled and folded brain to figure it out.
My first year in college, I was a Psych major, before switching to earth sciences. Lots of IQ testing, and I scored "genus" level all three times. After 3 more years of enjoying college life too much, I think I lost about 50 points. I wasn't tested again, but I sure felt a lot dumber. I think I've recovered, because today the wrinkles on my frontal cortex are so substantial they are showing through my skull to the outside.
I feel certain that rhhardin is an engineer, based on the wry concision in his written expression. He wrote five paragraphs in a single post once recently and it excited me so greatly that I commented about it in the renegade Right Wing Squatters forum.
Fred Drinkwater - with this commentariat, it's more likely "what we have done" than what we can do. Not only is the average I.Q. here likely in excess of the genpop, I feel sure the median age is mid-60s, minimum. Indeed, if there is a commenter there with even a "4" in front of their double digit age (excepting sons of the hostess) let them speak up!
As a person who has measured in the thinly populated cohorts, I learned to attenuate my language so as not to distress others more modestly endowed. I had more difficulty communicating ideas to those people who always want a citation for every observation, as if nothing can be known with inferential reasoning and as if the people who publish somewhere have direct knowledge of reality.
Here's how Marc Andreessen describes Musk's role in his companies: {quoting…}
MARC ANDREESSEN: ELON SOLVES PROBLEMS FASTER THAN OTHER COMPANIES ORGANIZE MEETINGS
“Elon has developed an operating method that is very unusual by modern standards.
The top line thing is this incredible devotion from the leader of the company to fully, deeply understand what the company does, to be completely knowledgeable about every aspect of it, and to be in the trenches and talking directly to the people who do the work, deeply understanding the issues and being the lead problem-solver in the organization.
Basically, Elon shows up every week at each of his companies.
He identifies the biggest problem that the company's having that week, and he fixes it.
He does that every week for 52 weeks in a row, so each of his companies has solved the 52 biggest problems in that year.
Most other large companies are still having the planning meeting for the pre-planning meeting for the board meeting, for the presentation, with the compliance review and the legal review.
So it's this level of both an incredible intellectual capability coupled with an incredible force of personality, a moral authority, an execution capability, a focus on fundamentals that is just really amazing to watch.”
Interview with Chris Williamson, December 14, 2024,
@pmarca
{/unQuote}
Here's what Musk has said about his childhood, father, and supposed inheritance: {quoting…}
I grew up in a lower, transitioning to upper, middle income situation, but did not have a happy childhood. Haven’t inherited anything ever from anyone, nor has anyone given me a large financial gift.
My father created a small electrical/mechanical engineering company that was successful for 20 to 30 years, but it fell on hard times. He has been essentially bankrupt for about 25 years, requiring financial support from my brother and me.
That said, he does deserve credit for teaching me the fundamentals of physics, engineering and construction, which is more valuable than money, but did not support me financially after high school in any meaningful way.
Our condition of providing him financial support was that he not engage in bad behavior. Unfortunately, he nonetheless did. There are young children involved, so we continued to provide financial support for their well-being.
Regarding the so-called “emerald mine”, there is no objective evidence whatsoever that this mine ever existed. He told me that he owned a share in a mine in Zambia, and I believed him for a while, but nobody has ever seen the mine, nor are there any records of its existence.
If this mine was real, he would not require financial support from my brother and me.
@elonmusk
{/unQuote}
Bruce Hayden, Teslas by all accounts are well built cars, but humanoid robots are not used to construct them. There have been some demonstrations of Optimus robots carrying batteries and such, but they are only demo's.
"Two of his greatest inventions are the Special and General Theories of Relativity; and for all of Jancsi's brilliance, he never produced anything so original.”
Maybe I am recalling incorrectly, but isn't every computer in use today a "Von Neumann Machine" based on his original concept?
Saw today an article about someone making fun at how Musk talks, calling it autistic. Which he kinda does. But that brings up a point. Hearing people sound a bit like Musk in places like Silicon Valley is not that uncommon, and esp at the top. A lot of Asperger’s there, for good reason. Dr (Sir) Baron-Cohen, autism expert at Cambridge, has suggested that the high incidence of people there on the Autism Spectrum may be a result of assertive mating, of two engineering types.
In any case, the existence of savants among those on the Spectrum is significantly higher than in the general public. And in Sci-Fi, such as “the Speed of Dark”, it has been suggested that this could be harnessed. The question I ask here is what if this is already happening in Musk? What if he is on the Spectrum (likely, I think), and is a savant in technology synergy and making money? He makes making insane amounts of money in a single day look easy. I don’t really notice when my net worth goes up or down $10k. He doesn’t when his goes up or down $10 billion.
Lest you think that Musk is alone here, several of those at the top of the list of richest appear to be somewhere on the Spectrum. And, indeed, they appear to be pulling away from the rest.
“As a person who has measured in the thinly populated cohorts, I learned to attenuate my language so as not to distress others more modestly endowed. I had more difficulty communicating ideas to those people who always want a citation for every observation, as if nothing can be known with inferential reasoning and as if the people who publish somewhere have direct knowledge of reality.“
Drove me crazy with COVID-19 “vaccines”. Esp with my daughter and, now, daughter of her own. Very bright, but mired in credentialism. PhD in Mechanical Engineering, dissertation involving variable frequency lasers and red shift. 5-6 papers, before real work and motherhood took over.
She wouldn’t look at anything except for published papers. I would demolish the ones she sent me, because of what they didn’t do or consider. But she refused to consider the facts and esp arguments that I otherwise made. I would carefully explain ModRNA, how it worked, and the problems with it. And she would respond by demanding published articles. And of course, at the time, there were few, because they were being actively suppressed by the FDA, etc. Accepted articles by experts with over a hundred articles to their name were being withdrawn from publication for no stated reason.
So, several months ago, I found that she had had her (then) 4 month old daughter vaccinated. Why? FDA wasn’t even recommending then jab until 6 months. Because her 2nd best friend, a PharmD recommended it, after her youngest got sick with the virus. Never mind that vaccines are now big business with pharmacies. Of course the profession recommends vaccinating with anything and everything available - they make money by doing so, And really have minimal legal exposure if they are wrong.
So this Seth thinks that Elon is stupider than the average grad student, that is pretty idiotic. I Q has practical significance in prediction only. It predicts which kids can perform at schools that try to accelerate and teach deeper, like the Harvards and Yales are supposed to do. For efficiency they should pick high IQ kids to maximize benefits to humanity in research etc. Disparity in selection as evidence of discrimination places loopholes in this to apply pressure to let IQ only be relevant for some of the applicants.
But once you have been routed into your proper channel by GPA, IQ, or SAT it means nothing anymore. Potential is no longer an issue, your results are the issue, and it is a waste of time to further brag about your IQ. It is just like people who are proud of having blond hair or being six foot five.
The best thing to do today is to go to a top state flagship school and get a 3.9 gpa and get funding for an ivy grad school.
The idea that Charles Darwin, Edison, and Ben Franklin all had IQs of about 120 is hilarious. Its shows either IQ tests are worthless in real life or Grok is terrible at estimating IQ.
Franklin was a famous writer/inventor. He amassador to France, and everyone who met him thought he was super-smart. Edison was involved in hundreds of inventions and made a fortune off them. As for Darwin, go read his Books.
The idea that John Sununu (IQ 176), Gary Kasparov (IQ 190), Lisa Kudlow (IQ 154) or Oprah (IQ 141) were smarter then Edison, Darwin, and Ben Franklin is either bizzare or insane.
BTW George Bush scored 1206 on the SAT and supposedly had an IQ of 126.
Again, people dont seem to understand that being supersmart at math, only gets you so far in the real world. I have no doubt that John Sununu and Karsparov really do have sky-high IQs. So, why weren't they great at their poltiical jobs? Kasparov was great at playing chess, but I'm sure Magnus Carlson and 3-4 people playing today could beat him, and probably have lower IQs.
Herbert Hoover probably had 20 IQ points on FDR. And I'm sure Nixon had 20 IQ points on Reagan.
gilbar said...
how many here have taken ASVAB?
I walked into a USMC recruiting office my senior year of high school and asked "how soon can you get me out of here?" Staff sergeant said well let's have you take the ASVAB first. I maxed it at 150, we were downtown in my mother's office ten minutes later because I was 17 and needed her signature.
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